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  • how bad is Lex

    What was the wrost/evilest thing Lex had done while on the show and does he come close to how bad the comic book Lex is?

  • #2
    Originally posted by the jester
    What was the wrost/evilest thing Lex had done while on the show and does he come close to how bad the comic book Lex is?

    The evilist thing I can recall him doing is straight up murdering Tess and he never comes close to how bad comic book lex is.

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    • #3
      I think what he did to Chloe and her mom in Progeny was as bad as Lex got and I agree that he didn't come close to comic book Lex but was a good example of what a young Lex would be like and I think that the lex clones should count cause they were extensions of Lex

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      • #4
        Murdering Grant Gabriel/Julian Luthor was pretty bad, at least as bad as murdering Lionel and Tess.

        But let's not forget that the comic book Lex took forty cakes when no one was looking. 40 cakes - that's as many as four tens. And that's terrible.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by the jester
          I think what he did to Chloe and her mom in Progeny was as bad as Lex got and I agree that he didn't come close to comic book Lex but was a good example of what a young Lex would be like and I think that the lex clones should count cause they were extensions of Lex
          No lex clones do not count, only real lex counts.

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          • #6
            but the clones are are the result of Lex they wouldn't have been made and they wouldn't have the mind they had if not for Lex. in season 10 i feel the clones were extenstions of Lex both the old clone and Alexander before he turned into Conner in fact I think Alexander is smallville version of Lex Lithor jr from the comics

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            • #7
              It's kind of hard to measure how evil Lex is: that's sort of like trying to assign Bill Gates a credit card score. Still, I'd have to say that we see him at his worst in "Requiem". Not because of what he does to Clark and Lana (although that was still sleazily and pettily evil) but because of his other actions throughout the episode. He supplies as psychotic like Winslow Schott with weaponry. He then has Toyman murder the entire LuthorCorp board, solely to get at Oliver and Tess. He lets him go after Oliver at the hospital, fully aware of what is going to happen. Finally, when all that fails, he rigs half of Metropolis to blow in an effort to discredit Clark. Lex was willing to murder several million people, just to make a point and destroy a relationship. That's beyond unforgiveable, and it clearly showcases what a maniac Lex is.

              On the other hand, there's his murder of Grant Gabriel. If "Requiem" shows Lex at his craziest, that murder shows him at his coldest. He willingly guns down his own brother for no better reason than the latter's willingness to talk to Lionel. Again, that's totally evil, albeit in a very different way.

              As for how bad he is when compared to the Lex in the comics...comicbook Lex is probably worse. He's certainly more of a sadist. That said though, it's still a miniscule difference. Smallville's Lex was evil beyond redemption at the end, and that's all that really matters.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Cloning Blues
                It's kind of hard to measure how evil Lex is: that's sort of like trying to assign Bill Gates a credit card score. Still, I'd have to say that we see him at his worst in "Requiem". Not because of what he does to Clark and Lana (although that was still sleazily and pettily evil) but because of his other actions throughout the episode. He supplies as psychotic like Winslow Schott with weaponry. He then has Toyman murder the entire LuthorCorp board, solely to get at Oliver and Tess. He lets him go after Oliver at the hospital, fully aware of what is going to happen. Finally, when all that fails, he rigs half of Metropolis to blow in an effort to discredit Clark. Lex was willing to murder several million people, just to make a point and destroy a relationship. That's beyond unforgiveable, and it clearly showcases what a maniac Lex is.

                On the other hand, there's his murder of Grant Gabriel. If "Requiem" shows Lex at his craziest, that murder shows him at his coldest. He willingly guns down his own brother for no better reason than the latter's willingness to talk to Lionel. Again, that's totally evil, albeit in a very different way.

                As for how bad he is when compared to the Lex in the comics...comicbook Lex is probably worse. He's certainly more of a sadist. That said though, it's still a miniscule difference. Smallville's Lex was evil beyond redemption at the end, and that's all that really matters.
                Whoa how did I miss lex doing all this? I thought I watched it all until michael quit but I dont recall any of this????? What season was this? Of course lex luther is way more evil in the comic books. But I dont consider lex irredeemable if lionel can be redeemed for all the things he has done.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Superboy-Prime
                  Whoa how did I miss lex doing all this? I thought I watched it all until michael quit but I dont recall any of this????? What season was this? Of course lex luther is way more evil in the comic books. But I dont consider lex irredeemable if lionel can be redeemed for all the things he has done.

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                  The killing of Grant Gabriel happened in episode 9 of Season 7. The episode was named "Gemini" Lex doesn't physically kill Grant but he orders his death. Although he callously kills Adrian Cross in that episode. If you haven't seen the episode, I won't give away what the connection is between all of them.

                  "Requiem" is Season 8, episode 14, the end of the Lana arc for that season, which started in "Bride". It's Michael's stunt double that plays Lex in that episode. I always try to tell myself that was one of Lex's clones but it's never clear, although in the series finale, you don't see those events in his memories shown. His actions seem a bit extreme, and petty, even for Lex, and the events that transpire make it seemingly impossible (at least to me), that it could be the same Lex we see in the finale based on what happens near the end.
                  Last edited by Vergon6; 08-08-2011, 03:17 AM.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by nate-dog1701d
                    Murdering Grant Gabriel/Julian Luthor was pretty bad, at least as bad as murdering Lionel and Tess.

                    .
                    He is dangerous, once he started murdering people it was like so natural to him and no big deal.


                    lex is more of the subtle evil type, the even more dangerous kind, never know what you are going to get.

                    ----- Added 3 Minutes later -----

                    Originally posted by the jester
                    What was the wrost/evilest thing Lex had done while on the show and does he come close to how bad the comic book Lex is?
                    Smallville was just the beggining of what he is capable of, he was still in development to become more of the comics lex IMO. but he was still pretty bad a true villain, once he stopped trying to be nice and holding back his true nature.
                    Last edited by BlueRanger; 08-09-2011, 07:21 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Vergon6
                      The killing of Grant Gabriel happened in episode 9 of Season 7. The episode was named "Gemini" Lex doesn't physically kill Grant but he orders his death. Although he callously kills Adrian Cross in that episode. If you haven't seen the episode, I won't give away what the connection is between all of them.

                      "Requiem" is Season 8, episode 14, the end of the Lana arc for that season, which started in "Bride". It's Michael's stunt double that plays Lex in that episode. I always try to tell myself that was one of Lex's clones but it's never clear, although in the series finale, you don't see those events in his memories shown. His actions seem a bit extreme, and petty, even for Lex, and the events that transpire make it seemingly impossible (at least to me), that it could be the same Lex we see in the finale based on what happens near the end.
                      See, I don't think it's a clone. They never say it's a clone, and that arc was done long before the clone arc was created. If you need to reconcile it with Lex's surface personality, remember this: Lex in Requiem was dying. He has quite literally nothing to lose at this point, and as such, keeping up his nice guy facade is totally pointless. He's free to be evil at this point because being killed or imprisoned is, from his perspective, a step-up from his current predicament. There's precedent for it in the comics too: anytime Luthor believes he's dying (or even just about to lose his company/political power/etc.) it typically results in a rampage that leaves hundreds or more people dead. That's why, for all it's faults, I like Requiem. It showcases what Lex could be like at his worst, a theme that was revisited with Lx-3 in Lazarus.

                      In the end, Smallville's Lex doesn't necessarily reach the heights of villainy that comicbook Luthor does, but the set-up is all there. In terms of how bad he is, he's already a completely concienceless, remorseless killer. He can't be redeemed and he can't be reasoned with. In Finale, Lex has a chance for a fresh start after being resurrected, and he doesn't take it. Instead he descends into Card Carrying Villainy, declaring his intention to oppose Clark and be purely evil, simply for its own sake. Tess' mindwipe may actually have done him a favour, by restoring some of his ability to function normally. In the end, the only thing that Smallville's Lex needs to do is increase the scale and scope of his activities. He's threatened Clark, Smallville, and all of Metropolis at this point. He's callously murdered or thrown away the people who care about him, and burned all the bridges he can. The only thing that's left is to actually threaten the world. And frankly, that can't be too far off.

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                      • #12
                        Lex can be redeemed if lionel can be redeemed.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Superboy-Prime
                          Lex can be redeemed if lionel can be redeemed.

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                          Gotta disagree with that. Lionel had a lot of factors going for him that Lex doesn't. He was possessed by Jor-El, had his crush on Martha, realised how badly he'd screwed up with Lex, and saw Clark as a surrogate son. All those factors contributed to making his turn-around real. Lex has none of that going for him, and on top of that, some of his behaviour suggests that he's borderline insane. I don't think he's even close to salvageable.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Cloning Blues
                            See, I don't think it's a clone. They never say it's a clone, and that arc was done long before the clone arc was created. If you need to reconcile it with Lex's surface personality, remember this: Lex in Requiem was dying. He has quite literally nothing to lose at this point, and as such, keeping up his nice guy facade is totally pointless. He's free to be evil at this point because being killed or imprisoned is, from his perspective, a step-up from his current predicament. There's precedent for it in the comics too: anytime Luthor believes he's dying (or even just about to lose his company/political power/etc.) it typically results in a rampage that leaves hundreds or more people dead. That's why, for all it's faults, I like Requiem. It showcases what Lex could be like at his worst, a theme that was revisited with Lx-3 in Lazarus.

                            In the end, Smallville's Lex doesn't necessarily reach the heights of villainy that comicbook Luthor does, but the set-up is all there. In terms of how bad he is, he's already a completely concienceless, remorseless killer. He can't be redeemed and he can't be reasoned with. In Finale, Lex has a chance for a fresh start after being resurrected, and he doesn't take it. Instead he descends into Card Carrying Villainy, declaring his intention to oppose Clark and be purely evil, simply for its own sake. Tess' mindwipe may actually have done him a favour, by restoring some of his ability to function normally. In the end, the only thing that Smallville's Lex needs to do is increase the scale and scope of his activities. He's threatened Clark, Smallville, and all of Metropolis at this point. He's callously murdered or thrown away the people who care about him, and burned all the bridges he can. The only thing that's left is to actually threaten the world. And frankly, that can't be too far off.
                            Oh I don't think he can be redeemed either. You make some good points, especially in regards to Lex dying in the comics and going on a rampage.

                            Although I guess why I thought it might be a clone that was killed also was because he was blown up in that episode, and all that Clark found were ashes, moments after it happened. But maybe I'm remembering the episode wrong or the writers did. I figured that maybe he was pieced together after barely surviving the events of "Arctic".

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Cloning Blues
                              Gotta disagree with that. Lionel had a lot of factors going for him that Lex doesn't. He was possessed by Jor-El, had his crush on Martha, realised how badly he'd screwed up with Lex, and saw Clark as a surrogate son. All those factors contributed to making his turn-around real. Lex has none of that going for him, and on top of that, some of his behaviour suggests that he's borderline insane. I don't think he's even close to salvageable.
                              You might be right at this point. But Lex had so much going for him in the beginning... if only Clark had given Lex the chance that he did Lionel. But, noooooo. Lex steals Lana, so he's unforgivable.
                              Last edited by Dagenspear; 08-20-2011, 09:27 AM.

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