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  • #16
    Originally posted by Tabularasa
    The show is kind of messed up at this point because of what has happened this season. Most of the characters we know have been killed off. Samuel was brought back only to be killed. Rufus is dead. Balthazar is dead. Raphael is dead. Literally, the only characters left are Dean, Sam, Bobby, Cas, and Crowley.

    This whole thing feels like a reboot of sorts. I don't think Sera Gamble wants to continue angel stories (Just look at what she said i the TV line article about Misha Collins being demoted) and this is her way of getting rid of those stories. I doubt we're going to see a lot of Cas next year. They'll probably just write that he's off in heaven taking out Raphael's followers while Dean and Sam try to find a way to get rid of Cas. But this is going down a very bad road for the show. When you can ruin 3 years of character development for someone in 42 minutes, that's bad.
    So true.

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    • #17
      Besides Ruphus and Raphael those are the only characters who have been shown to be on for more than 2 seasons. But yeah this was definitely the moral horizon for Cas.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Tabularasa
        This whole thing feels like a reboot of sorts. I don't think Sera Gamble wants to continue angel stories (Just look at what she said i the TV line article about Misha Collins being demoted) and this is her way of getting rid of those stories. I doubt we're going to see a lot of Cas next year. They'll probably just write that he's off in heaven taking out Raphael's followers while Dean and Sam try to find a way to get rid of Cas. But this is going down a very bad road for the show. When you can ruin 3 years of character development for someone in 42 minutes, that's bad.
        What article? Misha was Demoted?

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        • #19
          Originally posted by chole_fan
          While I don't think the show has been ruined I don't like the story direction with Cas at all. I never wanted him to go darkside or be a villian. I liked the fact that while all the other angels we met were either power hungry or uncaring, Cas was different. I in no way wanted to see him become like all the rest of them. I would have much rather seen him die in the S5 finale or live and go back to heaven and not be a part of S6 at all. At least then he would have stayed true to who he was and would have gone out a hero, not a villian.
          There's a difference between not liking a certain character's development and not liking the show anymore when a minor character becomes a villain, lol. And, yes, Cas became a minor character this season, even if Misha had top billing.

          Originally posted by MannaBanana
          I take it im one of those posters I just cant get behind it. I love Cas being badass and all powerful, and I dont even mind the God storyline, but a villian? I had to put up with a lot when it came to Smallville, but with Supernatural, I loved everything. I never had to settle for a story. But this one just upsets me. I dont like him on the darkside because thats everything he was against. But I know the power is corrupting him. And Ive always trusted Supernatural, so I trust they wont let me down next season. Im curious to see where it goes honestly.
          Oh, I wasn't referring to you, lol. I was speaking of someone else on that TV Line thread in General that said the show is ruined because Misha isn't starring anymore.

          Nah, not this Cas fan. I wanted the show to end on season 5, and personally, I love when my favorite characters die. It adds to the show, it doesnt ruin it. Not for me anyways. So if the show had ended in season 5 when it was suppose to and Cas had stayed dead like he was suppose to, I would have been more than satisfied
          You're not a hardcore, I love Castiel and nothing else kind of fan then

          Originally posted by Tabularasa
          The show is kind of messed up at this point because of what has happened this season. Most of the characters we know have been killed off. Samuel was brought back only to be killed. Rufus is dead. Balthazar is dead. Raphael is dead. Literally, the only characters left are Dean, Sam, Bobby, Cas, and Crowley.
          Characters die, new ones show up. Season seven will feel like a "new" season again as season six did, imo. As Gamble mentioned, there will still be angel storylines next season so I wouldn't be surprised if we see more angels, and even good ones(hoping Gabriel returns).

          This whole thing feels like a reboot of sorts. I don't think Sera Gamble wants to continue angel stories (Just look at what she said i the TV line article about Misha Collins being demoted) and this is her way of getting rid of those stories. I doubt we're going to see a lot of Cas next year. They'll probably just write that he's off in heaven taking out Raphael's followers while Dean and Sam try to find a way to get rid of Cas. But this is going down a very bad road for the show. When you can ruin 3 years of character development for someone in 42 minutes, that's bad.
          Demoted? Don't get all upset, haha. It's natural if someone gets taken out of the top billing spot; don't see it as a demotion. And Castiel didn't have three years of character development, imo. He felt, if anything, like a loose end this season and him becoming a villain was the most reasonable next step.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Anno_Domini

            Oh, I wasn't referring to you, lol. I was speaking of someone else on that TV Line thread in General that said the show is ruined because Misha isn't starring anymore.
            oh ok cool. I really need to go read that article!

            You're not a hardcore, I love Castiel and nothing else kind of fan then
            Nah not quite no I know this show is about the boys, but Cas is still one of my favorite parts of the show. Especially since I havent 100% forgivin Sam yet, he kind of took Sams place for me. But even on the characters I am "hardcore" fan of, I still welcome a good death storyline for them. Hope thats not morbid

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            • #21
              I'm not upset by this at all it's a new turn for Misha's character of Cas it can go.One of two ways either Cas is good or evil to be honest. Cas has seemed rather bland during 5 & 6 so this is a new development to me.

              I'm curious as to what this will mean for season 7 because season 6 was a lack luster.Easily the weakest season by far alpha monsters and soul-less Sam meh. I miss the days when we got urban legend style stories from Season 1.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Clois4eva89
                I'm not upset by this at all it's a new turn for Misha's character of Cas it can go.One of two ways either Cas is good or evil to be honest. Cas has seemed rather bland during 5 & 6 so this is a new development to me.

                I'm curious as to what this will mean for season 7 because season 6 was a lack luster.Easily the weakest season by far alpha monsters and soul-less Sam meh. I miss the days when we got urban legend style stories from Season 1.
                That's exactly the reason why they should have ended it with season 5. Because they can't go back with the season 1 feeling or storyline it has developed too much to do that.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by MannaBanana
                  oh ok cool. I really need to go read that article!
                  You should. It explains more than just Misha though(and I wouldn't use the word 'demoted', lol), but Gamble mentions that even though the press release doesn't say Kripke or Edlund as producers, they are still on board with the writing and what not. Jim Beaver had even posted a tweet about him meeting Kripke, Gamble, Singer, Ben and 2 new Bens(Acker and Blacker).

                  Nah not quite no I know this show is about the boys, but Cas is still one of my favorite parts of the show. Especially since I havent 100% forgivin Sam yet, he kind of took Sams place for me. But even on the characters I am "hardcore" fan of, I still welcome a good death storyline for them. Hope thats not morbid
                  Nothing is wrong with a character dying. Hell, it even felt like Sam "died" at the end of season five and I didn't really complain. Although, it would've been sad if the series ended at five and Bobby stayed dead. Pretty much both of their fathers would be dead, lol.

                  Originally posted by Anu
                  That's exactly the reason why they should have ended it with season 5. Because they can't go back with the season 1 feeling or storyline it has developed too much to do that.
                  We can never really go back to season one in terms of monster of the week. Season six showed how they could somewhat get back to it, but every season the seasonal arc only gets bigger and bigger, which, again, is not a bad idea. And how can you say it should've ended at 5 just because they can't do a lot of self-enclosed episodes anymore? That isn't really a good point, lol.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Anno_Domini
                    You should. It explains more than just Misha though(and I wouldn't use the word 'demoted', lol), but Gamble mentions that even though the press release doesn't say Kripke or Edlund as producers, they are still on board with the writing and what not. Jim Beaver had even posted a tweet about him meeting Kripke, Gamble, Singer, Ben and 2 new Bens(Acker and Blacker).



                    Nothing is wrong with a character dying. Hell, it even felt like Sam "died" at the end of season five and I didn't really complain. Although, it would've been sad if the series ended at five and Bobby stayed dead. Pretty much both of their fathers would be dead, lol.



                    We can never really go back to season one in terms of monster of the week. Season six showed how they could somewhat get back to it, but every season the seasonal arc only gets bigger and bigger, which, again, is not a bad idea. And how can you say it should've ended at 5 just because they can't do a lot of self-enclosed episodes anymore? That isn't really a good point, lol.
                    But they can't and season 6 just proved that. I know that if they take every angel stuff, Cas and things like that and try to go back to season 1 with the boys riding the car and hunting monsters it will suck so much. I think that is really Sera's aim.

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                    • #25
                      But you're not entirely sure that is Gamble's plan. She has already said that angels will play a part for next season.

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                      • #26
                        Characters that change isn't bad writing...

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                        • #27
                          How is everyone overlooking this one little bit? The fact that Lisa lives! Kudos to her for being the sole surviving female character on this series, lol.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by HowardFilms
                            Characters that change isn't bad writing...
                            But characters that change on a dime that ruin 3 years of character development is bad writing.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Dexter
                              How is everyone overlooking this one little bit? The fact that Lisa lives! Kudos to her for being the sole surviving female character on this series, lol.
                              Ahh, yes...she has been the sole woman suvivor, but definitely at a cost with being mindwiped. Either way, it seems a woman on this serious will always get effed.

                              Originally posted by Tabularasa
                              But characters that change on a dime that ruin 3 years of character development is bad writing.
                              He was going down that path this entire season; saying it was a "change on a dime" makes it seem like you weren't even watching season six.

                              And c'mon, after not receiving a sign from God, of course that would push Castiel to WANT to be a God, or at least try to lead Heaven. But to become militant? I still suspect that is due to those millions....and millions...of Purgatory souls. Haha, Rock reference. Awesome.

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                              • #30
                                I love this show & agree. in Smallville when they killed Jonathan off, I felt like it was a very stupid idea at the time and year after year & even when watching the Smallville finale I still felt like it was pointless and one of the worst moves the series ever made.

                                When John Winchester died in In My Time Of Dying, I wasn't happy, but over the course of the rest of season 2, I realized that they were building up to a much bigger picture. So I was OK with it because of this and also because we didn't see much of him on the show before he died anyway.

                                When I think of the reasons I began to dislike Smallville, a huge reason was that they kept around characters who should have been killed off or moved on for far too long and on top of this, they developed plots just for the inclusion of these characters. These include Lana (who should have been gone after season 3), Chloe (who should have died at the end of season 4), and Oliver (who should have never been a main character). On that show, when a character's original role had been fulfilled so that nothing else could be done without changing who the character was, the character was redefined into something they were never meant to be. Lana went from the girl next door/love interest for Clark to becoming a witch possessee then to Lex's girlfriend/wife then to someone who ran a meteor freak foundation and finally a superhero herself. Chloe went from a friend/reporter to a sidekick/reporter/hacker to a sidekick/reporter/hacker/meteor freak to a meteor freak foundation runner to a serial killer harborer to a superhero headquarter runner to a Matrix-wannabe to a superhero's wife (totally, completely ridiculous!!).

                                Supernatural instead takes its characters, keeps them in the same roles & grows them naturally into the next step in their lives and then usually kills them off. We all know what happened with Cas in seasons 4 & 5. He grew to become a great friend of the Winchesters. But since he was an angel & didn't know free will & how to handle it and, with pure intentions, wanted to prevent Lucifer from ever getting out again after what he himself experienced, he started going down a road that led to power that he needed to personally acquire to stop Raphael & secure Lucifer & Michael to the cage in hell. Before he got that power, we saw Cas at times show resentment against God, like in The Song Remains The Same when he felt betrayed. I'd say that was because he hung around the Winchesters who at many times voiced their disapproval of God being away when they needed Him and that rubbed off on Cas. Then once he did, he got corrupted because as the old saying goes absolute power corrupts absolutely. We saw that happened to Sam in season 4 as he became stronger with every drop of demon's blood he drank and now it happened with Cas. Even if the Winchesters were gung ho with his plan & trusted him, he would at best give them privledges while treating every other human like subjects of his who he would require to worship him, which would definitely piss off Sam & Dean. Castiel obviously has issues with God like I mentioned earlier in The Song Remains The Same and God's absence (though He did resurrect Cas & even gave him a sign like Cas requested in The Man Who Would Be King) gave Cas a chip on his shoulder & when he got all that power he wanted to replace God. It makes sense. Cas didn't have any such experience with power & corruption throughout his life like humans (Sam & Dean) have. All he did was take orders from above. One could even say that Lucifer believed that what he was doing was good back when humans were created because he wanted humans to follow the same rules that angels did when God had other plans for them & even though he loved God, he rebelled & ended up hating Him much like Cas does now.

                                I'm glad this show doesn't keep characters past their expiration date because that's a major reason why it's still going strong & isn't getting weighed down by plots that get devised just to keep unnecessary characters on the show.

                                ----- Added 44 Seconds later -----

                                Originally posted by Dexter
                                How is everyone overlooking this one little bit? The fact that Lisa lives! Kudos to her for being the sole surviving female character on this series, lol.
                                Don't forget the Meg demon.
                                Last edited by xrayvision; 05-21-2011, 02:35 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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