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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by shoaibs48 View Post
    Balthazar said Castiel couldn't handle the power and would explode so I think he will spend season 7 trying to control the power. Maybe Death will have some role in all this. He seems more powerful then anyone but God
    I believe this to be true for season 7. I think the season story arc will be about Castiel and we will see a possible explosion (inside him). I think someway dean and sam will help Cas not explode or whatever... possibly finally convincing him to give those souls back. Death talks about balance, and those souls need to go back to purgatory.

    Maybe death will need dean one more time to get those souls back?

    ----- Added 1 Minutes later -----

    Quote Originally Posted by shoaibs48 View Post
    there is probably a powerful soul or group of souls within cas that will either gain control of cas or escape and cause trouble

    When lucifer in season 5 they introduced the horsemen in the middle of the season to introduce a new element to the story so hopefully they will do something similar here as jus cas all season will get pretty boring and predictable if they try the Cas redemption storyline

    I agree. If its another redemption storyline and all it is, I don't know if I can take that.
    Last edited by demosthenes; 05-24-2011 at 02:50 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tabularasa View Post
    The problem of all this is that Chuck wrote THE END. Meaning it's over and done with. If these books are about the apocalypse, wouldn't the gospel need to mention about the brothers and Cas stopping the apocalypse that Raphael was trying to create? I mean he bothered to write about the brothers trying to stop Lucifer from getting free in their adventures in season 4, so it makes no sense that God wouldn't write about them trying to stop another one. Nothing is out of God's hands. Everything he's doing is a test for the characters. By ending the gospel of the Winchesters with Sam in the cage and Dean living with Lisa, that says that their adventures after the fact don't mean anything because no one would read about them. The Gospels in the Bible wrote about all the important details of Jesus Christ's time on earth until he was sent to heaven. That story was closed. The Winchester's story is not closed. So by typing THE END, it makes it seem like everything that happens after that, is meaningless.
    The Earth and everything leading up to the Apocalypse was God's story. He knew it would be coming, he knew how to make it all come to pass and how it should have all turned out. He didn't try to stop it because he had given up on everything. Nobody made the right choice. Lucifer, Michael and Gabriel all chose family. They chose instead of uniting together to prove their worth to God, they stood against each other to show they were superior, and it got them dead or in Hell. Castiel, Sam and Dean chose to die for each other and because of that God handed the universe over to the humans, they make their own future now. THE END signifies the end of God's story and the beginning of the humans.


    Cas, Dean, and Sam, never do things just because they can. There's always a motive behind it. Sam started training with Ruby and drinking demon blood so that he could become strong enough to take down Lilith. Cas does things because he was ordered to do it and believed that what he was ordered to do was right. These are not just things they do for the hell of it, they do them because they believe they will help them achieve a goal.
    Castiel joined with Crowley to win the war. And Dean said "Just because you can do what you like doesn't mean you can do whatever you want". No matter what their motives they did what they did because they wanted to. God roamed the Earth so that the Apocalypse would come to pass.

    It doesn't make sense if God's goal is to write the Gospel of the Winchesters because he's never written something before. He's always had prophets. And if this is God, then God would've known that the apocalypse would be averted.There's no reason for him to think it wouldn't have been. Why does this story, of all the ones in the bible, need a personal touch? Why not the beginning of creation or the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus?
    Yes, but with those prophets God directly spoke to them. It was literally what he said channeled back down to them. But even then they got it mostly wrong. If anything needs to be written correctly, it's the ending. And we don't know if Jesus exists in Supernatural, but if he does his Gospels do not count as he literally is the Word of God, nothing else matters, the books are just proof he exists.


    As for the surprise being for the viewer, I'm sorry, but that doesn't make a lick of sense to me. The viewers have never been addressed in the show, so why should they be now? The narration Chuck gives gives no indication that it's supposed to be for the audience. It's in his own head of him ending his novels and what the reaction would be. If Chuck is pretending in private, what's to say all the other characters aren't pretending.
    Why does it not make sense. God can see all. Therefore, he can see the viewer. We haven't seen it before because we had never knowingly seen God before. God was an analogy of Eric Kripke. Kripke wrote Supernatural and God wrote the Supernatural novels. God, or Kripke was directly adressing the audience saying that nothing really ends. So, while it is the end of his story, the story will continue, it was a metaphysical refrence, Kripke handing the torch over to Sera Gamble.

    I'll believe that Kripke planned on Chuck being God. But the story of Chuck being God doesn't add up. It doesn't make sense that God would need to write the gospel of the Winchesters when there have been more important stories in the bible then the Winchesters stopping Lucifer.
    All of the Bible is equally important, and it was all spoken by God, and reinterpreted by the writers of it. For example, it doesn't make sense that Abraham, the first prophet, doesn't write the Creation myth, but rather Moses does. Abraham, despite being a prophet, makes no writings.

    Having Chuck be God and him acting the same in private because he wants it to surprise the viewer is a huge cop out. That means the viewer can't even trust what's being shown to them because the writers will just say the people were pretending for them. There's not a single thing in the Chuck story that gives any kind of proof that he's God.
    There are some. Chuck always wore robes. God is normally depicted as wearing robes. Mistress Magda, a prostitute. The fact he knew where the fight was gonna be without being told. He just disappeared, prophets don't just do that, except for Encoh, everybody in The Bible dies.

    And before someone tells me that you just have to have "faith" that he's God, that's not a message Supernatural is giving. The message of Supernatural is about family and free will, not about faith to believe something. When Dean gave up his free will and swore an oath to the angels, it wasn't because he had faith in them, it was because he was trying to ensure the safety of his brother.
    No one is denying that.

    If Chuck is God, fine, whatever. But for all the reasons I've listed, that is a huge plot hole in the series.
    Yes Chuck is God, but of course you are going to make a few plot holes when you bring in a plot device of infinite scope.

  3. #63
    Board Master Tabularasa's Avatar
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    Just because Chuck wore robes and was into a prostitute means nothing. For one, there are like loads of characters in the bible that are depicted as having worn robes. Also, I only remember Chuck wearing a robe for like one episode. Him being into a prostitute wouldn't signify him being God because if you take a closer look at the Bible, Mary Magadiline wasn't a prostitute. Nowhere in the bible does it say she's a prostitute. All it says is that she owed some guys money. If Kripke based Chuck being God on those things, then he got the Bible really wrong.

    Also, if Enoch, a prophet, can vanish, why can't Chuck? There's already lore about Enoch disappearing so it makes sense that if Chuck is a prophet that he would vanish like Enoch. And Chuck knew where the final battle was going to take place because he's a prophet. He sees the future.

  4. #64
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    If Chuck was God...it'd be a bit of an outstretch with God having to pretend to be a prophet just to write down what the pre-matured Apocalypse would be like, but, I wouldn't question it if it were to become canon. God leaving Heaven, knowing how the angels would want to start the Apocalypse way earlier than what God intended, so he became a prophet under the thumb of angels such as Raphael, Michael and Zachariah and then helping out Sam and Dean here and there. It works with season four, but then season five did become a bit silly with the convention and Becky.

    Why God!Chuck needs to be with Becky, I have no clue, but maybe because God was trying to fit in better on Earth. Season five's actions of Chuck(if he is God) raises the most questions, imo.

    The whole "THE END" part is what I think is just God being done with the pre-matured Apocalypse. He intended for it to be stopped, and it was. But now, with the whole Raphael and Castiel business, I think it'll come down to Chuck intervening next season. "THE END" means it's the end of God to write and it's time for him to be involved finally.
    Last edited by Anno_Domini; 05-25-2011 at 09:55 PM.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tabularasa View Post
    Just because Chuck wore robes and was into a prostitute means nothing. For one, there are like loads of characters in the bible that are depicted as having worn robes. Also, I only remember Chuck wearing a robe for like one episode. Him being into a prostitute wouldn't signify him being God because if you take a closer look at the Bible, Mary Magadiline wasn't a prostitute.
    In our world there is no evidence she was a prostitute, but in the 6th (IIRC) Century
    she was widely discredited as a prostitute and a sinner. For all we know in the Supernatural world she could have been a prostitute. And also, if Kripke is trying to give subtle (and I mean subtle) hints to Chuck being God, are people more likely to be familiar with her as a hooker, or discredited follower of Christ?

    Nowhere in the bible does it say she's a prostitute. All it says is that she owed some guys money. If Kripke based Chuck being God on those things, then he got the Bible really wrong.
    "[The Bible gets more wrong than it does right]" Castiel, angel of the Lord.

    Also, if Enoch, a prophet, can vanish, why can't Chuck? There's already lore about Enoch disappearing so it makes sense that if Chuck is a prophet that he would vanish like Enoch.
    Who knows? Enoch was also supposed to become the most powerful angel of the Heaven, in Metatron, the lesser God. Why hasn't that also happened to Chuck?

    And Chuck knew where the final battle was going to take place because he's a prophet. He sees the future.
    Chuck said the Angels weren't telling him and keeping it very hush hush, but he had seen anyway. How does one man, trick the scribe of God?

  6. #66
    Onward Season 10! Anno_Domini's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by i_need_a_new_username View Post
    "[The Bible gets more wrong than it does right]" Castiel, angel of the Lord.
    Which shouldn't have been added to the script(for "I Believe The Children Are Our Future") because the Bible doesn't even state that the Anti-Christ is the child of Lucifer. So, you can pretty much throw out that argument as it doesn't even make sense, lol.

  7. #67
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    Yeah, Kripke didn't seem big on Bible study lol.

  8. #68
    New In Town kanyeshrug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by i_need_a_new_username View Post
    In our world there is no evidence she was a prostitute, but in the 6th (IIRC) Century
    she was widely discredited as a prostitute and a sinner. For all we know in the Supernatural world she could have been a prostitute. And also, if Kripke is trying to give subtle (and I mean subtle) hints to Chuck being God, are people more likely to be familiar with her as a hooker, or discredited follower of Christ?
    Dude, you can look this crap up on wiki if you've never actually picked up a book on theology or history. Just because she was regarded as a prostitute by a patriarchal religious group doesn't mean that she actually was a prostitute. Most of what you know about the bible was added during the Council of Nicea (first and second) in order to make Jesus divine and pure. The Gnostic gospels actually hold that Mary was the wife of Jesus.

    Quote Originally Posted by i_need_a_new_username View Post
    "[The Bible gets more wrong than it does right]" Castiel, angel of the Lord.
    Someone already mentioned the hilarity of this concept.

    Quote Originally Posted by i_need_a_new_username View Post
    Who knows? Enoch was also supposed to become the most powerful angel of the Heaven, in Metatron, the lesser God. Why hasn't that also happened to Chuck?
    First of all, the transformation of Enoch into Metatron is not "canon" -- it's not even in the Talmud. Second of all, there are multiple Enochs. It's very unclear that the prophet Enoch is the same Enoch who becomes Metatron. It's commonly regarded that they're not one and the same. Third of all, even if you accept that Enoch is Metatron, why does Chuck need to be turned into an angel in order for him to disappear?

    Initially, all we get is this from the bible:

    Enoch walked with God; then he was no more, because God took him away. [Genesis 5:24 NIV.]
    Not to mention, we haven't even seen all the angels in Heaven. We've been privy to a select handful. The writers have only given us, what, two episodes that took place in Heaven? Who knows what's going on "up" there?

    Quote Originally Posted by i_need_a_new_username View Post
    Chuck said the Angels weren't telling him and keeping it very hush hush, but he had seen anyway. How does one man, trick the scribe of God?
    Because God allowed for it to happen by coming up with a contingency plan: that of the righteous man prophecy:

    CASTIEL: It's not blame that falls on you, Dean, it's fate. The righteous man who begins it is the only one who can finish it. You have to stop it. (4.16 On The Head Of A Pin)
    If God really wanted the Apocalypse to come to fruition, don't you think this little prophecy wouldn't exist at all? Not to mention, Chuck is getting his prophetic flashes from the angels; not God. The angels are up to no good and during season four, they were tricking everybody! They wanted the Apocalypse to happen, if you remember.

  9. #69
    If Death were to help stop Cas what kind of deal do you think he would want the Winchesters to make.

    Just trying to get the discussion back on topic

  10. #70
    Idiot superhippie2000's Avatar
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    If Cas is God they will have the whole world pray for a bunch of useless junk to overwhelm Cas and make his head explode.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by superhippie2000 View Post
    If Cas is God they will have the whole world pray for a bunch of useless junk to overwhelm Cas and make his head explode.
    That just may be crazy enough to work.

  12. #72
    Board Master HowardFilms's Avatar
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    He'll just convert prayers to email like Bruce.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by kanyeshrug View Post
    Dude, you can look this crap up on wiki if you've never actually picked up a book on theology or history. Just because she was regarded as a prostitute by a patriarchal religious group doesn't mean that she actually was a prostitute. Most of what you know about the bible was added during the Council of Nicea (first and second) in order to make Jesus divine and pure. The Gnostic gospels actually hold that Mary was the wife of Jesus.
    You should read more than the first sentence people write. I also mentioned are people going to be more familiar with Mary Magdelene known as a prostitute, possessed, and cured by Christ, or a woman who was discredited by a council that decided upon the Bible?

    We're also dealing with two different works of fiction: The Bible and Supernatural.

    Someone already mentioned the hilarity of this concept.
    Do we know it is not in the Bible as it exists in the Supernatural universe.

    First of all, the transformation of Enoch into Metatron is not "canon" -- it's not even in the Talmud. Second of all, there are multiple Enochs. It's very unclear that the prophet Enoch is the same Enoch who becomes Metatron. It's commonly regarded that they're not one and the same.
    Firstly, there are only two prominent Enoch's in the Bible. Enoch, son of Cain and Enoch ancestor of Noah. The third Book of Enoch, (which has no status as either canon nor non canon) documents him becoming the lesser God.

    Third of all, even if you accept that Enoch is Metatron, why does Chuck need to be turned into an angel in order for him to disappear?
    I was trying to point out the absurdity of discussing why things didn't happen.

    Not to mention, we haven't even seen all the angels in Heaven. We've been privy to a select handful. The writers have only given us, what, two episodes that took place in Heaven? Who knows what's going on "up" there?
    It doesn't matter what the Bible says because Supernatural says Michael is the most powerful Angel. Something that is conflicting with the Christian view that Archangels are only the second tier in the Host and are merely soldiers. While Seraph are the highest, as they continuously protect the Throne of God.

    Because God allowed for it to happen by coming up with a contingency plan: that of the righteous man prophecy:
    Did God come up with that prophecy? Because it wasn't Dean alone that stopped the Apocalypse. It was Dean and Sam.

    If God really wanted the Apocalypse to come to fruition, don't you think this little prophecy wouldn't exist at all?
    Did God write that prophecy and why didn't it come to fruition as prophecised?

    Not to mention, Chuck is getting his prophetic flashes from the angels; not God. The angels are up to no good and during season four, they were tricking everybody! They wanted the Apocalypse to happen, if you remember.
    Everybody except the humans and Castiel wanted the Apocalypse to happen. So? You're point is Chuck even said "they went up against God" because he was an adversary, he didn't want to avert the Apocalypse. And it seems I'm going to have to repeat, how does a man, outsmart an angel? A very powerful angel that is writing the last installment of the Bible? It is the equivalent of a mouse outsmarting a human.

  14. #74
    Sam and Dean should pull a That 70's Show and ask Castiel if he is really that powerful can he create a boob so big that even he can't lift it. He would be so confused his head would totally explode.

  15. #75
    Onward Season 10! Anno_Domini's Avatar
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    So, I was thinking of something, in a more serious matter of the God!Cas situation...now, it may still be possible for Castiel to go nuclear when the eclipse ends, and I was thinking...with Robert Singer's quote of how this season will be like a season of the "dying hunters", that could possibly mean more than just the hunters dying out, BUT...what if, to keep the souls intact, Castiel goes out to kill and take the souls of monsters that are living? Perhaps the "hunter age" is dying out because the monsters themselves are dying out as well to keep God!Cas alive and well? I still think the souls are messing with Castiel's mind, so they may be pushing Castiel into doing these deeds to stay alive and as a "new god".

    Quote Originally Posted by i_need_a_new_username View Post
    We're also dealing with two different works of fiction: The Bible and Supernatural.
    Some, like myself, would not call the Bible a piece of fiction.
    Last edited by Anno_Domini; 06-03-2011 at 02:13 PM.

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