Alternate Timelines/Inconsistencies of Time Travel

[nate-dog1701d]

After watching this episode, I started thinking about all the times someone - the Legion, Rokk (the second time), Brainiac 5, and Booster Gold - has come from the future and taught/showed Clark something that is crucial to his development into Superman. What would have happened if none of them had ever shown up? It would seem that the timelines each of these people hailed from had Clark developing into Superman without them. What was that like? What circumstances led him to becoming the Man of Steel? If Brainiac 5 had not come back to take Clark on his Scrooge-like adventure, would he seriously have never become Superman? Did Clark get the disguise idea from his future self, who got the idea from his future self, who got the idea from his future self...? Would Clark have fully embraced the marketability of his superhero status without meeting Booster Gold?

This is why time travel stories are very tricky. It doesn't make sense for people from the future to go back to the past to ensure their future still happens. Thinking about all this has made me wonder what those other timelines were like, and I was just curious if anyone else has thought about or been confused by this.

[Tekken Force]

Take it from someone who's been watching Trek most of their life - don't bother trying!

[dreamsofnever]

And you have touched on one of the many reasons why I absolutely despise time travel in fiction. It creates all sorts of plot holes and inconsistencies and just... ick.

[protector91]

Time travel never makes any sense. You just have to go with it. Exhibit A is Terminator. Exhibit B is Back to the Future. Exhibit C is Heroes. It's just one big time travel paradox. If Sarah prevented Judgment Day then John should vanish from existence since Kyle never travelled back in time to save Sarah.

If you think too hard about it your head will jstu explode.

[dru-zod2501]

Instead of debating the infernal logic behind these alternate timeline paradox theories, the creators gave us a panacea explanation since the first season. (and I say this with much). It's called DESTINY!

Since the very begining of the series, the future has happened because it was DESTINED to happen and couldn't happen any other way, from Clark to Superman, to Booster, to Legion, and beyond.

Even consider the one episode in the series that seemed to tell viewers that the future wasn't set in stone (whichever one that was where Lois jumped forward and did future Clark). Lois went to a future where the twin towers were activated and... well I'm sure you know what happened.

That possible future was an aberrant anomaly that Lois was destined to see, so Clark could see her memories later on, setting in motion the events that led to the towers being destroyed (among other things) so destiny continues uninterrupted. The future once again happens simply because it's just supposed to. Say if none of that had happened and Clark wasn't alerted to destroy the towers when he did and the towers came on one day in the future? It's a moot point, but IMO there's no reason to think that somehow Clark & Co. wouldn't have saved everyone, even powerless, because that's what was destined to happen.

----- Added 7 Minutes later -----

And since you mentioned Rokk's return in Failsday... he came back to warn Clark because the Legion's future changed because Clark dies before he becomes Superman, and yet the Legion is still destined to exist in the future because Rokk is still there!! (and somehow miraculously Rokk remembered what the original timeline was, since from his perspective it should never have existed. Clark Kent must've done something super for people to remember his death in 1000 years). Destiny guides everything, even putting Doomsday in the ground where he will be for when he is scheduled to kill Superman

[Vergon6]

They are setting this all up as pre-destination paradoxes. It was meant to happen haha--that's happen on Star Trek too. Maybe Rokk and the Legion were in a shielded location that somehow made them impervious to the effects of the changes in the timeline. But I know that's a Star Trek explanation too.

[DJ Doena]

I think the story with Rokk worked because he was in the past when the future was changed. When they changed fat in Legion Rokk was there and he then travelled back to the future. And he saw the difference between this future and the future re remembered from before his trip into the past. It's basically like Doc and Marty knew that the changed 1985 was changed when they came back from 2015.

It is not said that the Legion even existed in the future created between Legion and Doomsday.


But yes, time travels are always messy. But there are good examples, especially when they are stable time loops, like Babylon 5 (In Valen's name!) or Terminator 1 (only 1, not the sequels).

PS: Only 4 more years 'till hover boards!

[protector91]

When you're in the past and you change history, you create another timeline. There are an infinite number of timelines, but people only know how to travel straight forward into the new one and not into the one they made. You could say that they are cut off from the timeline and that's why their memories aren't affected by the changes because they aren't a part of it.

[Kneel before Zod]

The concept of time-travel is so convoluted... Don't even bother trying to understand it.

[protector91]

I think the story with Rokk worked because he was in the past when the future was changed. When they changed fat in Legion Rokk was there and he then travelled back to the future. And he saw the difference between this future and the future re remembered from before his trip into the past. It's basically like Doc and Marty knew that the changed 1985 was changed when they came back from 2015.

It is not said that the Legion even existed in the future created between Legion and Doomsday.


But yes, time travels are always messy. But there are good examples, especially when they are stable time loops, like Babylon 5 (In Valen's name!) or Terminator 1 (only 1, not the sequels).

PS: Only 4 more years 'till hover boards!

And Nike Power Laces. If not I'm going to sue those guys for false advertisment.

[nate-dog1701d]

I respect the minds behind Back to the Future because I know they put extensive thought in trying to be consistent with the theory of time travel by which they were abiding. One thing still bothers me a bit, though. It's established that the time travelers still remember the timeline they hail from, even if history is altered. But if altering the past can potentially cause Marty to fade from existence, why does it not alter his memories? The life he returns to is quite different from the one he left at the beginning of the first movie, but he doesn't know all the little details of his new life. New truck, brother with a respectable job, parents with different personalities, wussy Biff, etc. Not to mention Chuck Berry got the idea for 'Johnny B. Goode' from listening to Marty play it over the phone.

If we want to bring Star Trek into this, I've got a doozie. The most mind-boggling time travel plot I've ever seen occurred in The Next Generation. So, Tasha Yar died back in Season 1. Several seasons later, there was an episode where the Enterprise-C traveled through a wormhole to the present day, but by doing so they changed history - Tasha Yar is still alive, and the Federation has experienced years of war (with the Romulans, I believe), with the Enterprise-D herself being a vessel of war. Somehow, Guinan knows that the timeline has changed and urges Picard and company to send the Enterprise-C back to her own time, despite the fact that the ship was in the middle of a battle it would surely have lost. When they do so, Tasha goes back with them because Guinan told her that her death in the correct timeline was empty, and she wants her death to have a purpose (and going back almost certainly means death). Once they return, the timeline is restored (and the Enterprise-D, except for Guinan, has no clue anything happened), but Tasha survived the battle that occurred in the Enterprise-C's time, meaning that she existed in a time when she shouldn't have. She went on to have a child with one of the Romulans who captured her, creating a new life that would turn out to be a nemesis to Picard and the crew of the Enterprise-D on multiple occasions. So, to summarize, this nemesis exists because a woman who died was instantaneously resurrected through some wormhole phenomenon (which, for all practical purposes, didn't even happen) that no one from the real timeline remembers. *head explodes*

It's definitely a concept that you have to just accept, and I'm capable of doing so, but it's kind of fun to think about. I was thinking about how a big problem a lot of people have with this show is the fact that Clark has to be told everything and isn't allowed to just come up with something on his own. From what everyone from the future always says about Clark's destiny, it seems that he learned and decided things for himself more, especially since those time travelers seemingly did not show up in those stages of his life. If none of these people had shown up, maybe this show's Clark could have been the person a lot of people want to see. Just something to think about, but yeah, you just have to accept it.

----- Added 5 Minutes later -----

PS: Only 4 more years 'till hover boards!

Well, it could be before then. We just know they'll definitely exist four years from now. Flying cars, too, as a matter of fact. Those scare me, though, because people drive badly enough on the ground.

[Dark Chlarklate]

Its a paradox, it was sorta explained in "Homecoming" when the two Clarks meet in the elevator. The "present" Clark asked the "future" Clark how he knew he would be here and the "future" Clark said that when he was in the "present" Clarks position a "future" Clark exact like him was waiting for him in the elevator and thats how he knew to be there. Because each "present" Clark must learn from the "future" Clark to be at the elevator it has to loop infintely for it to work.

[Billy Jor-El]

Corporeal beings think in such linear terms.....

[dru-zod2501]

I think the story with Rokk worked because he was in the past when the future was changed. When they changed fate in Legion Rokk was there and he then travelled back to the future. And he saw the difference between this future and the future re remembered from before his trip into the past. It's basically like Doc and Marty knew that the changed 1985 was changed when they came back from 2015.

It is not said that the Legion even existed in the future created between Legion and Doomsday.


But yes, time travels are always messy. But there are good examples, especially when they are stable time loops, like Babylon 5 (In Valen's name!) or Terminator 1 (only 1, not the sequels).

PS: Only 4 more years 'till hover boards!

This just gets more bizarre the more I think of it. History was really changed when Brainiac took over Chloe. As per the Legion's description, whatever Brainiac's vessel was that Clark fought in the original timeline was destroyed and defeated. Is it not possible that the timeline that the Legion comes from was altered the moment Brainiac infected Chloe? and for some weird sci-fi reason they didn't become aware of the change because they had to come back to the past first, then arrive back in the future of the new timeline??? I'm losing my mind here....

Makes me wonder what happened to that original timeline that the Legion came from? I don't know anymore. All I know is that the unseen hand of "destiny" would've fixed everything in the end

[smallvillerocks45]

I think alt-timelines and stories of the like are tricky as well. I mean, just think about "Salvation" - Clark had a dream of becoming this superhero and of being associated with the Daily Planet, etc... but then in that same episode, he was about to travel to another world with the other Kandoriansj via the Book of Rao. Ultimately, of course, he did not make that trip, because he was destined for other things (and Zod had tricks up his sleeve), but I think events like this, go to show that just because we may imagine the future to be a certain way, does not mean it won't happen, but rather the path to that outcome may change a bit.
Granted, Clark's dream was not a "real" glimpse at the future as, say, "Homecoming" was, but still, when we think of the events of "Pandora" - Clark changed that future and prevented it when he destroyed the RAO towers. Alt-timeline stories can be fun, but they are also very open to change.