Game of Thrones (HBO)

[Raistlin]

Lots of interesting posts here, I can't begin to comment in-depth on the characters like you guys can...I'm thinking I need to read the books to help me get a better handle on the history, the kingdoms, etc. I will say this...I'm loving Dany. I am so glad she got her dragons back, they love her! I was a little confused as to what the dynamics were that led her to locking up those folks in the vault. Also, who is the freaky woman with her face all covered up? She wasn't in the finale, but maybe the last 2 episodes? Anyway, she creeps me out. With the exception of Tyrion, I can't stand the Lannisters. I want something very bad to happen to Cersei and Joffrey. Yes, Sansa was a brat, but the Lannisters' treatment of her is horrendous. Talk about breaking the cutie. And can someone stick a blade in Littlefinger's back? I have never liked Cat Stark, maybe wildlings could eat her face off as she tries to make her way home. Yes, I REALLY can't stand her. Things aren't looking too good for any of the kingdoms with winter's arrival. I think I'm going to have to re-watch the season in order to get a better handle on what's going on, though.

[rogue_agent]

Do you think the "Winter is Coming" saying is literal? Seems like there's more behind the words than just the changing of the seasons. Maybe the zombies need darkness. The ones at Castle Black in season one didn't attack until night time.

I think you're right. Winter means more than just the season - it seems to stand for darkness and other things. The thing is, when the old woman was telling stories to Bran in Season 1, she mentioned that during the previous long winter, it was extremely cold, so much that even people's tears froze and in that darkness, the White Walkers came for the first time. So you're right, darkness seems to be the theme behind "Winter is Coming" too. I'm not sure if the xombies need darkness, though - I mean the first scene of Season 1 and the final scene of Season 2 was daylight, correct? However, you might be on to something there...

It's creeping me out just wondering what they do. If the babies become white walkers then that just... wow. That would make the White Walkers some sort of mutation of human beings. Maybe they use the babies in some sort of magical ritual.

Yeah, it creeps me out too. If that's true, then the White Walkers must have some human DNA. I think your theory is more likely, though - that they use the babies as some kind of ritual for something we don't know yet. The most likely thing is that they're using Craster to mass produce Wights - his daughters give birth to more boys and they become Wights - by Wights I mean zombies. But that seems too basic, maybe there's something more to it.

That's a great Littlefinger quote. I forgot that he said that on the show. I wonder if he still holds onto any hopes that Cat might be with him if he rose high enough in his station. Because of his maneuvering behind the scenes he's Lord of Harrenhal. If he could deliver Sansa to Cat... wow. That would be HUGE. I wonder what her reaction would be. I doubt that she would marry him but... it would be so interesting to see how that would play out.

Yeah, he's got Harrenhal and he seems to be moving up the ranks. If he gave Sansa to Cat, though, I doubt she'd marry him until he gave her back Arya too, but she would become emotional and soft. Of course, Cat doesn't know that Arya's not in King's Landing.

I know that LF is up to something with Tywin and the Tyrells. Varys seemed really miffed about the wedding between Margaery and Joffrey. I don't think any of his little birds knew that was coming. I think that's why he's trying to get some leverage on Littlefinger by using Ros as his spy.

I agree. LF was the one who suggested this alliance to Tywin. Right now, even though it's too early to say, it looks like Littlefinger 1 - 0 Varys, but like you said, Varys might turn the tables with Ros. And yes, that Varys' reaction was so telling

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Also, who is the freaky woman with her face all covered up? She wasn't in the finale, but maybe the last 2 episodes? Anyway, she creeps me out.

She's mysterious, but part of her clothing seems to resemble Melisandre, suggesting that she may be from the same place as her - Asshai.

[starflower69]

Warning! Long Post! Warning!

I never understand why people like Theon or want to see him turn out well, but people do. And they have their reasons and they list them, and I listen to why they think he should get to redeem himself, and I consider what's been said, and then my response is still "But he's Theon!"

That dude's pretty much despicable, man. After the iron islands (where he's from) tried their last revolt against the kingdoms, Theon was taken as a boy prisoner to the north as a way of keeping the pirates honest. Ned then raised him like a son. And Theon knew he'd kind of lucked out and appreciated the Starks for it. Then what does he do at the first opportunity? He reverts back into the stereotypical behavior of an untrustable pirate prince. All it took was a tiny taunt from his loathsome unloving bio-father to make Theon turn against the ones who gave him a real home all these years. Spineless. Weak willed. Backstabber. Not the kind of character I want to see rewarded. (I don't like Theon). The Boltons are at least crazy and vicious by nature so they have that as an excuse for their behavior. When they hurt people, it's like "What else did you expect us to do? We're mean!" Theon was shown kindness. So in a way he's worse than they are.



re: winter is coming
These aren't spoilers because not a darn thing has been said about any of it by GRRM, who's just left us to wonder about this stuff, so it's my theory: The white walkers might be waiting for the winter to come, or they might have gotten tired of waiting and are bringing winter south with them. Or a little bit of both. The seasons seem to be very unstable, as if you could nudge them into changing with something like magic, and the Others are magical creatures it would seem. When I saw the opening credits for the show, I was most struck by the way it started out by showing us the sun as some kind of clockwork device with understandable moving parts, which helped to confirm for me that the long seasons are like a clock winding down. And unlike our regular star which we have no control over, the sun of Westeros could perhaps be influenced by someone who can use magic well enough to jerk the big magneto-sun gyroscope thingy around in the sky. Or rather, jerk the planet around, since that's more likely I guess. The planet has an unstable orbit or something. Some kind of magical hocus pocus proably knocked the planet silly a long time ago and now each time it orbits the sun it chooses between multiple paths to follow, some longer and some shorter, which produce the longer and shorter seasons. Since this is a fantasy, someone almost has to be pulling the strings, right? Or at least trying to, by playing god and meeting with mixed results. But again, we've been given almost nothing to work with by the author here, so I'm basing this all on nothing but the presence of magic in a world with irregular seasons.

Also, the other thing to remember about the coming of winter is that the White Walkers (and Winter itself) seem to be flexing their muscles again right at the same time that Dragons came back into the world. Like the tide is rising for both Fire and Ice at the same time, which is odd, since you'd expect them to take turns like the seasons do. ....... "Hey, why are Fire and Ice walking toward each other in the street carrying socks with rocks in them?......... Uh Oh!, Gonna be trouble!"

Yes, Theon is pretty despicable but he was taken from his family at a young age and he's had a fairly good upbringing from what we've seen. If a child is taken from their family it can cause all manner of psychological problems, it goes back to the nature vs nurture debate. I don't believe that what you're born into makes you the person you become. Yes, Theon comes from the Iron Islands but you can't blame someone for where they are born. That's like saying if you're born in Iraq or Afganistan you're instantly a terrorist. When Theon went home, he thought he was a better man and that he was grander and better than his father. He was made to feel embarrassed by his father and his sister and the only reason he did the things he did was because he felt he had something to prove to them. Yes it was a cowardly thing to do, killing innocent children and yes he is an idiot and a fool but evil? No he's not evil he's just stupid and doesn't even think through his actions. I hope that the Bolton bastard delivers him to Robb intact as I want to see him plead for his life. I want to see him tell Robb that Bran and Rikkon are still alive and that he's sorry for what he's done. Whether Robb shows mercy is to be seen but Robb is an honourable man so who knows what Theon's outcome will be but I hope we don't have to see Robb, chopping off Theon's head.

I love your theory about the sun in the titles but the maps do a similar thing so I think that it's just done for effect. Kind of like magnetic forces pushing and pulling against each other, like the cog and wheel effect. Like each force has to work in conjunction with each other to exist. It kind of reminds me of Terry Pratchett's books on Discworld, where the elephant is riding on the back of a giant turtle whilst the elephant is holding up the world. Insane but it works

As for the Whitewalkers, the more I try and think about it the more I'm convinced that Winter is coming to Westeros, it's not being used as a metaphor. That's why I think they are on the move and why they haven't done anything as yet. It also can't be a coincidence that the Dragons are back and that Dany is on her way back to claim the throne.

[ginnyfan]

I don't want to spoil anything because I know most people here don't read the books... but what are you guys looking forward to for Season 3, just based on what you've seen on the show. That was a HUGE cliffhanger we were left with.

[rogue_agent]

I want to see the politics between the Lannisters and Tyrells. I wanna see Arya getting her Needle back. I wanna see Bolton's son and Theon stuff, I wanna see Davos reuniting with Stannis and I wanna see the White Walkers and Wights attacking the Fist of the First Men.

[ginnyfan]

Oooh the Lannisters vs. the Tyrells yes that will be a real highlight for me as well. Just the thought of Margaery and Cersei in the same frame gives me goosebumps!

I'm excited to see Arya, Gendry and Hotpie having their own buddy road trip plot. I'm looking forward to continuing to enjoy the Jaime/Brienne road trip.

I'm seriously dreading Bolton's son. It will be interesting to see who they cast. I'm actually looking forward to more of Bolton himself. He was really interesting in Season 2 and we didn't get to see a lot of him.

Ah so you think Davos survived all that hellish green fire?

I also want to see Varys and Littlefinger plotting against one another.

I'm looking forward to Dany's journey as well, mostly because of her dragons.

[rogue_agent]

Oooh the Lannisters vs. the Tyrells yes that will be a real highlight for me as well. Just the thought of Margaery and Cersei in the same frame gives me goosebumps!

I agree. It's gonna be so awesome!

I'm excited to see Arya, Gendry and Hotpie having their own buddy road trip plot. I'm looking forward to continuing to enjoy the Jaime/Brienne road trip.

Me too. I really want Arya to get her sword back - it's one of the only things that has a connection with her bro Jon. So nice and emotional. And Gendry is cool and Hot Pie is a joy to see too - an entertaining trio. Wow, I forgot about Brienne and Jaime - another group I'm looking forward to.

I'm seriously dreading Bolton's son. It will be interesting to see who they cast. I'm actually looking forward to more of Bolton himself. He was really interesting in Season 2 and we didn't get to see a lot of him.

Me too, but I'm not really dreading him yet. I assume like his father, he's on Robb's side. I don't really know what to expect from him, but yes, I too want to see more of Roose Bolton.

Ah so you think Davos survived all that hellish green fire?

Not sure but I'm sure his son might be dead. I hope Davos survived otherwise I like Stannis less because of that woman who's advising him.

I also want to see Varys and Littlefinger plotting against one another.

Yeah, me too. I love their plotting and verbal sparring. Looks like Littlefinger won in Season 2 and Varys was annoyed, now it looks like Varys is plotting back.

I'm looking forward to Dany's journey as well, mostly because of her dragons.

Yeah, Dany will be interesting with her dragons and I hope she has more to do in Season 3.

[ginnyfan]

Not sure but I'm sure his son might be dead. I hope Davos survived otherwise I like Stannis less because of that woman who's advising him.

Ug. I know what you mean. I'm not really a fan of Melisandre and Davos has really been great for balancing out her crazy with practical common sense and goodness. I liked her a little more after Stannis strangled her because it seemed like she truly believes what she's telling him. Sometimes I wonder if she believes he is the "messiah" of Westeros, or if she's just saying that for her own reasons to get closer to accomplishing her own goals.

[rogue_agent]

Yeah, and now Melisandre is alone with Stannis, I shudder to think what she'll advise him to do. I think Melisandre truly believes in her religion and believes in Stannis as the chosen one. However, it is difficult to tell whether she's manipulating him or not - she has that face of someone you can't trust, but I dunno! I really wanted Stannis to choke her to death after she told him that she was in more battles than him

[InactiveUserID]

Mel prevents forest fires. By burning all the dead wood every night at her bonfire ceremony. We need her to do that around here where there's huge fires every dry season.

It's weird because Stannis' family is hanging around, and his wife sees Melisander getting involved with the running of things, and the wife/queen is like "Hey, that's great. I fully support this! Mel has my approval to go on tour with my hubby while I'm over here reading in a corner. This is ideal." (The wife must be tired of Stannis and welcomes the vacation from having to deal with him full time.)

Anyway, a strange dynamic with those folks. Shireen the daughter is a sympathetic character, but the rest of them are sort of nuts.

[rogue_agent]

yeah, Mel would be really useful for that.

I agree. In a land that speaks of honour, his wife must feel sp annoyed at what's going on. Shireen looks to be interesting, but don't know what to expect from Stannis' storyline at all.

[ginnyfan]

Stannis seems to be rigidly honorable. I kind of know about his dynamic with his wife from the books but I don't know how it will be on the show. I doubt that his wife suspects anything. Stannis just doesn't seem the type to stray. But I guess you could say the same about Ned Stark and it seems that he did. To be fair to Ned he pretty much met his wife for the first time on their wedding day and THEN went off to war where Jon was conceived so he didn't really have much of a relationship with Cat when Jon was conceived.

Have you kept up with the casting news? I'm excited about the Blackfish, Meera and Jojen Reed AND Stannis' wife. There are two other characters that have been cast I think.

[rogue_agent]

Yeah, he seem very honourable and dry. I think that is why him and Davos work so well. You do have a point with Ned's infidelity - I didn't know he only was with Cat on their wedding day before he went off to war - I guess that was described in the books?

Kind of, yeah. So, it looks like Clive Russell as Blackfish. Charlotte Hope as Myranda and a child actor as Shireen Baratheon. It's so interesting to read about the casting, kind of makes the wait bearable.

[rogue_agent]

A parody video from CollegeHumour - I found this funny:

[Ginx]

Just finished reading the second book and moving onto the third in the Fire and Ice series. I have to say although I enjoy the HBO show, I liked the books better. There were details left out of the show and new parts added in that imo didn't add to the story at all. While I know they can't do the entire book they still could have kept some things similar and not gone too off track. I'll still continue to watch the series though because it is an entity on its own and I do enjoy it as a whole.