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So why the hell was Samuel resurrected (brought down from Heaven)?

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  • So why the hell was Samuel resurrected (brought down from Heaven)?

    I understand why Samuel made the deal with Crowley once he was resurrected & brought back to Earth, but why was he brought back? Is there an angel who has an agenda that Samuel needed/needs to fulfill? And if the objective behind the reason why he "fell" hasn't been resolved, is this the last we've seen of him?

    I hope they don't just leave it like this because it's currently an unresolved issue & I would hate for it to become a plothole.

  • #2
    Originally posted by xrayvision
    I understand why Samuel made the deal with Crowley once he was resurrected & brought back to Earth, but why was he brought back? Is there an angel who has an agenda that Samuel needed/needs to fulfill? And if the objective behind the reason why he "fell" hasn't been resolved, is this the last we've seen of him?

    I hope they don't just leave it like this because it's currently an unresolved issue & I would hate for it to become a plothole.
    I believe it was Crowley who brought him back as well. Due to the civil war, I'm sure it was pretty easy for Crowley to slip in and out.

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    • #3
      Crowley had said he revived Samuel because he was a walking monster encyclopedia.

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      • #4
        But Crowley can't bring back someone without someone else making a deal for it. As they say in the show, them's the rules. So who made the deal to bring Samuel back?

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        • #5
          Well, for a normal Crossroad Demon, it's true, a deal must be made, but being the King of the Crossroads and also the King of Hell, you'd think both titles, or let alone the title of KOTC could make him bring someone down from Heaven easily.

          At first, when Samuel first showed up, I had questions on wether Samuel was actually brought down from Heaven, and I think it's true, as Sam was probably sent to Heaven after Jake stabbed him, BUT, I think the same situation happened to Samuel, in the case of Azazel mentioning to Dean that Sam changed once he returned to Earth(i.e., became more vicious) and Samuel acted just like that with the episodes we've seen of him(even though he has a soul, he didn't seem like it, especially after this episode with Gwen's death).

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          • #6
            I thought it was pretty obvious that Crowley was all talk regarding the king of hell thing. He said he could get Sam's soul out of the cage, yet when he was finally cornered into it, he had no power to do it & was just leading on the Winchesters just so they could do his bidding. So I don't think Crowley would be able to resurrect anyone, especially from Heaven unless a deal was done. The only ones we saw able of such feats were archangels. I'm hoping that something has yet to be revealed regarding the war in Heaven and a connection to Crowley.

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            • #7
              He may not have taken Sam's soul out of the cage, but he was powerful enough to at least bring Sam's body out of the cage, and that's something a regular Crossroads Demon couldn't do, imo.

              Plus, being the new King of Hell, it gave him some power to at least teleport the demons that were capturing the Alpha Vampire(as we've never seen demons escape like that seen in "Family Matters" as it seemed, to me, that Crowley is the one that teleported them).

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              • #8
                I'm not even sure Crowley was the one who got Sam's body out of the cage. Even if we suppose Crowley resurrected them, he had no way of knowing that Samuel would make a deal with him to bring Mary back or that Sam would work with Samuel in gathering up all those alphas, both of which would had to have happened to explain why Crowley would have fully resurrected Samuel & resurrected Sam's body minus his soul.

                I think what would make sense is if Balthazar was the one behind the resurrections because he would have known what would happen once the Apocalypse was derailed. He would have been much more familiar with Samuel since Samuel was in Heaven and he would have known what bringing back Samuel without bringing back Mary would have done to him. And based on him being Castiel's close friend, he would have known what the Winchesters were capable of & could have brought Sam back to ultimately bring back Eve, who would/could be a distraction to Raphael or even become Balthazar's ally against Raphael. This would mean that Balthazar & Crowley had a partnership in finding purgatory and bringing Eve back from it.

                I highly suspect that Balthazar is up to something that we don't know of yet and this would be the best logical thing because he would have to know that him, Castiel and those Heavenly weapons/items wouldn't be enough to stop Raphael & his entire army of angels.

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                • #9
                  A deal wouldn't have to be made, imo, for Crowley to bring Samuel back. I mean, we've seen before that a deal doesn't have to really be made for Crowley to obtain something(as we've never heard of any deal for when Crowley had Death's scythe...which wouldn't have made sense for a human to be carrying around the scythe, so Crowley must have just taken it back from a demon), so it's always possible that Crowley brought Samuel down from Heaven to use him because of him being a "walking monster encyclopedia", then he made the deal with him that "he'll bring Mary back" if Samuel were to help him(lie or not, it's a sign that Crowley could be able to bring someone down from Heaven, i.e., Mary), and then brought Sam back; before or after, it doesn't really matter, because in the end, I bet he would've tried to make a deal with Sam that would involve his soul(which would have been a lie) if they hadn't found out that Samuel was working for Crowley beforehand(my best bet on why Crowley kept Bobby's soul for a bit; perhaps he would've tried to use Bobby's soul as leverage to use Bobby's help in the future).

                  Balthazar, I don't think has nothing to do with Crowley, Samuel or Sam, imo. The angel storyline seems to have its own separate storyline and besides, if the storylines were to have merge, it makes no sense to do so now that Crowley is dead. That storyline itself is dead, now that Crowley AND Samuel are both out of the equation.

                  Edit: However, I do think Balthazar will become a villain. In the alternate universe on "The French Mistake", Misha, playing as Castiel, said that "He(Balthazar) knows Raphael will never take him back", which could be a hint of a future betrayal from Balthazar, imo. I don't think it has anything to do with Crowley or Sam's soul, but I do think he will do something drastic. If he had anything to do with Sam's soul, I believe he would've at least hinted at such in "Appointment in Samarra"; he didn't even know Sam was missing a soul or that it was locked up in Hell.
                  Last edited by Anno_Domini; 03-05-2011, 12:08 PM.

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                  • #10
                    Well, it's still possible a connection between Balthazar & Crowley could be established through a reveal that both were working together. That is what happened with Azazel. Back before Azazel died, we had no idea why exactly he was doing everything he was doing. But in Lucifer Rising after Azazel had been dead for a while, we found out that all those things he was doing was to eventually get Lilith out so the seals could be broken and it connected to Lilith's story. So just because Crowley is dead doesn't mean that his story won't be connected to Balthazar's current story.

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                    • #11
                      Maybe there is a shady deal with Crowley and an angel. I was surprised that Cas killed Crowley off that quick and Cas said he'd inform the boys of what was going on when he could. So anything is possible. Maybe Crowley was a lose end for something.....

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                      • #12
                        I really think Grandpa was brought back by Crowley for his purposes. Once Crowley was dead there was no real reason for Grandpa to stick around. I just don't think he figured into the storyline anymore.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by chole_fan
                          I really think Grandpa was brought back by Crowley for his purposes. Once Crowley was dead there was no real reason for Grandpa to stick around. I just don't think he figured into the storyline anymore.
                          I just don't think Crowley was able to resurrect someone from Heaven without a deal being made for it beforehand. Otherwise why wouldn't demons have resurrected people and tortured them just so their loved ones would go along with what the demons wanted? They could have easily done that with Mary Winchester. Ruby herself in Lazarus Rising said she didn't know of any being who could have brought Dean back.

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                          • #14
                            Ruby never knew because she never knew a King of Hell or knew any demon could be a King of Hell?

                            I mean, this is the new thing of the season, or one of the new things we've learned this season that after Lucifer was sent back to Hell, heirarchy changed in Hell, and a demon became a "king" now. I think him being a Crossroads Demon and the King of Hell gave him the power. Sure, Samuel's death(both) was anti-climatic, but his storyline is done, imo. Crowley's tries at getting into Purgatory is done and so was the whatever deal Samuel made and now he's dead. I guess you can still think Crowley could never have done that, but if we never get a different answer or that Crowley was working with an angel, then you'll have to realize that Crowley WAS the King of Hell, lol.

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                            • #15
                              I really doubt there was anymore depth to Crowley than what we saw. Crowley was a left over from S5 and didn't really have much of a place. I think the writers did the best they could with him but Sara and the others agreed that he'd make a weak villian after Lucifer and HAD to be killed off. He was a good character to led to the new bad boss but would have been kind of a joke even with all the powers of hell or whatever. I do agree it just wouldn't be convincing even with a new title of king of hell. He's a good character but just not that threatening... that's all. I'm not surprised people doubt he was ruling hell. That just makes my point more valid. Samuel and Crowley had to go... they just weren't really needed anymore. Eve is definately more interesting and can't wait to find out more about her...

                              Just look at it this way. A demon is not threatening compared to a fallen angel (devil). One thing I wish SPN had done with the whole fallen angels thing is introduce other devils (Lucifer/Satan wasn't the only angel to fall albeit he was the most powerful/recognizable) but with it would have been too cramped together in season 5 to pull off, I guess...
                              I know its just based LOOSELY off myth/religion.. sometimes its hard for me to except that, lol! Damn Catholic schooling
                              Last edited by sino8r; 03-07-2011, 06:23 PM.

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