Best 16th Episode of the Series?

[Jenni]

I loved this episode, but still didn't think it could beat season 9's Escape so had to go for it, that episode was hilarious

[REebee52]

I don't hate any of those episodes, I just think all could have been much better if they didn't tie anyway into the Clexana drama.

Crimson - I thought the first half was fun but I wish the second half didn't go the way it did, I think Crimson and Hydro both shared the same problem where we have 2 stories that don't mesh together(one to cater to shippers that is more fun and the other tied to the Clexana stuff that completely drags the episode down)

Combat - had terrible starting and closing scenes but the rest of the episode was good, I just wish they made Clark doing what he did because he wanted to save the world, not upset about his lovelife. It would have also been better if the episode ended off on a happy note that Clark can be proud about what he did instead of being all mopey about Lana

Phantom - the episode for the most part sucked sucked till Lana got "killed", but after that point the rest was great. Clark telling Lana the secret was something that should have been saved for it's own episode, and I didn't like how crazy Clark was going on Lionel and to a lesser extent Lex.

Nemesis - This is another episode that could have been 100 times better if it wasn't all about Lana in the end.

Still, I don't understand the hatred of the Lexana triangle as a plot point (though naturally you're supposed to hate them as a couple) and, it seems to me, a seething disliking of Lana herself. You hate the plot because it makes Clark 'mopey'? Is he allowed to be upset?

As to Lana, I think she turned out all right, considering all she went through. It's a lot of near death experiences for a teenage girl... I maintain a a love tirangle needn't be merely soap opera material--it is an old, old story.

I feel like in general (this may not apply to you), once Lois showed up people started to really turn on Lana. Like, they expected Clark to leave her for Lois, hated that Lana was holding him back, etc. etc. etc. But he was still a young man at this point, well before when Clark Kent usually becomes Superman (26-28ish, I suppose? Depending on the story?) They started to act like she was an extra character who was just getting in the way. For instance, when you say Nemesis was "All about Lana" (I disagree profoundly, but pretend I don't), you act like she's not allowed to be a focus in the show. But the show was so often about Clark, Lex, and Lana for the first several seasons. I think it's clear they were the three leads (the rest were vital, don't misunderstand me). Then Lois came (whom, for the record, I adore) and people realized, "Wait a minute. Clark Kent marries Lois Lane, not Lana Lang. WTF is that chick still doing here?" And started to stone her whenever an opportunity arose. For reasons I said in my previous post, the Lexana storyline made sense for me, and had been hinted at for years. Those that hate it usually don't have much more than "UGH!... Lana" and blame her for the whole triangle, which then makes them say the whole show was about her, and thus taking the limelight from Clark, who is sad, which is annoying to them. I see:

5 years of young love soured by Clark's lies (there's no reason to dispute this or to fault Clark for it. He had reason to hide, and it's understandable, but he learned that lying to those closest to him has severe repercussions). 5 Years of Lex playing puppet master and waiting for an opportunity to swoop in on Lana (he gave Clark very similar manipulative advice in season 1). A dramatic finish to their difficult relationship that drove Lana away and so that Lex could swoop, and a realistic guilty/despondent period from Clark. Every player is to blame, not just Lana, but she gets all the flack for it. The three major characters of the show engaged in a plot in a relationship web started in the Pilot.

[Supsfan]

You hate the plot because it makes Clark 'mopey'? Is he allowed to be upset?

The problem is we get this same plot since S3(you can even point back to hints of it in the first 2 seasons) by S6 it gets ridiculous and like a bad soap opera. Either tell her or move on with your life(which should have happened roughly at the end of S2/3). Watching Clark constantly be depressed is not entertaining but that was the main plotline of the season and it got tiring.

I feel like in general (this may not apply to you), once Lois showed up people started to really turn on Lana.

I started to get sick of all the "secret and lies" drama in S3, S4 it just felt like she was on the show because she is Lana and needs to do something and the beginning part of S5 was alright but then that when they turned the soap opera elements to full gear. For me at least it wasn't Lois, it was more Lana should have been a character who had no purpose once Clark left High School, instead they found more ridiculous plots full of "drama" for her to be in that added nothing of entertainment value to the show for my tastes. Lana to me was a character that to often brought soap opera elements into a show that should have been more action/drama based.

As I pointed out Promise to me is symbolic of everything wrong with the show during that period(S5-7) and 42 minutes of it non stop. It should be pointed out the other "big" episode(Reckoning) during that period rates rather lowly on my worst episodes list as yet another excuse for the show to try find the worst possible situations to make Clark's life a depressing hell all for the sake of "drama".

On the flip side (using another 16th episode as an example) you have an simple episode like Lucy where Clark is shown happy, proactive in saving the day and smart which to me is how the show should have been written. It's nice at the end of the episode when you have a character tell Clark how great he is so you can actually feel happy for the characters. I still think about how great Combat could have been if it was written more as a stand alone episode with no ties to Clexana(ie we get a nice happy ending where Clark is congratulated for the great work he did).

[REebee52]

The problem is we get this same plot since S3(you can even point back to hints of it in the first 2 seasons) by S6 it gets ridiculous and like a bad soap opera. Either tell her or move on with your life(which should have happened roughly at the end of S2/3). Watching Clark constantly be depressed is not entertaining but that was the main plotline of the season and it got tiring.



I started to get sick of all the "secret and lies" drama in S3, S4 it just felt like she was on the show because she is Lana and needs to do something and the beginning part of S5 was alright but then that when they turned the soap opera elements to full gear. For me at least it wasn't Lois, it was more Lana should have been a character who had no purpose once Clark left High School, instead they found more ridiculous plots full of "drama" for her to be in that added nothing of entertainment value to the show for my tastes. Lana to me was a character that to often brought soap opera elements into a show that should have been more action/drama based.

Ah! Well, I can't convince you to like the 'secrets and lies' plotline of Smallville. I, too, agree Clark kept his secret for so long--and I feel like they show realistic repercussions (still won't go so far as to 'soap opera'), but if you had tired of that by then--well, you had!

As I pointed out Promise to me is symbolic of everything wrong with the show during that period(S5-7) and 42 minutes of it non stop. It should be pointed out the other "big" episode(Reckoning) during that period rates rather lowly on my worst episodes list as yet another excuse for the show to try find the worst possible situations to make Clark's life a depressing hell all for the sake of "drama".

On the flip side (using another 16th episode as an example) you have an simple episode like Lucy where Clark is shown happy, proactive in saving the day and smart which to me is how the show should have been written. It's nice at the end of the episode when you have a character tell Clark how great he is so you can actually feel happy for the characters. I still think about how great Combat could have been if it was written more as a stand alone episode with no ties to Clexana(ie we get a nice happy ending where Clark is congratulated for the great work he did).

First off, I LOVED Season 5! It had a lot more than Clana, that was the Brainiac arc, one of the show's best I thought! And you also had a lot of HAPPY Clana, which I thought was great. As for Reckoning, yes it was sad--but Jonathan Kent dies in several versions of the mythos. It didn't make the show 'depressing as hell,' it happens every day (I mean, usually not in the same circumstances...), and yeah it's tragic. I love seeing the Happy Clark in Lucy, too, but I'm going to have to see some turmoil as well to make him a fully fleshed out character.

As to Combat, as I recall in the end he was most upset about killing Titan, at which point his mother did congratulate him, I think (?) I don't remember, but man that fight is killer.

We're in agreement on the 'action' thing, but it's always been restrained by budget.

[Supsfan]

As for Reckoning, yes it was sad--but Jonathan Kent dies in several versions of the mythos.

But in other versions Jonathon doesn't die because Clark's AI jackass of a father decided to take away Clark's powers then have Clark die only for Jor-El to revive Clark but kill somebody in his place. If you want to find a reason to kill off Jonathon fine but don't make it because of Clark's stupid actions leading up to it(and I am not even taking about the time reversal) and have him be all depressed how it's it's fault. But hey that's Smallville and "drama" for you.

[REebee52]

But in other versions Jonathon doesn't die because Clark's AI jackass of a father decided to take away Clark's powers then have Clark die only for Jor-El to revive Clark but kill somebody in his place. If you want to find a reason to kill off Jonathon fine but don't make it because of Clark's stupid actions leading up to it(and I am not even taking about the time reversal) and have him be all depressed how it's it's fault. But hey that's Smallville and "drama" for you.

The problems with Jor El are... Numerous...

But I don't think he killed Jonathan Kent. I mean, yes taking away Clark's powers (another tired device, we can agree), led to him being vulnerable. So then he died. So then Jor El revived him. But he didn't then just kill JK in his place. It wasn't his will it was some sort of transcendental force of the 'Universe' that required balance. Jonathan would have been more than willing to die for both Clark and Lana, I think. I don't think Clark spent too much time bemoaning the fact that it was his fault, though. Just that episode afterward, which ends with one of the most poignant and powerful scenes in smallville's history.

[Supsfan]

The problems with Jor El are... Numerous

Most my hated episodes that aren't Promise somehow involve Jor-El(don't get me started why I think the Calling-Exile run was the true start of the downfall of the show). lol

But he didn't then just kill JK in his place. It wasn't his will it was some sort of transcendental force of the 'Universe' that required balance.

aka stupid plot device

Just that episode afterward, which ends with one of the most poignant and powerful scenes in smallville's history.

Maybe I am not that sentimental, but the ending scene of Vengeance just reminds me how much I hated Reckoning and all the crap that lead up to it.

[luckycloisfan]

ESCAPE!

I just love that episode! this one... not so much!

[Supsfan]

ESCAPE!

I just love that episode! this one... not so much!

I liked Escape, my only beef was I think a light hearted episode would be better off ending on a light hearted note, I really didn't care for the last scene.

[abbaspice1]

Lucy.

[abrazz1e]

The Love Triangle isn't plot point delegated only to soap operas, latin or otherwise. The Lexana thing had been hinted at since season 1; Lex always had a creepy fascination with her. And every episode tries to create 'drama.' This one dealt with relationships, even if it is a superhero show. I think it's unreasonable to expect Clark Kent to completely harden himself when someone he cares about is marrying another man. People always accuse him of him emasculation because he's mopey in this episode--I think it's a very natural, human reaction. Superman is allowed to be sad. In my mind it's perfectly okay to have a 22 year old Clark Kent be upset that his highschool sweetheart was getting married. He still did plenty of saving that season, it's not like he sat around and cut his wrist with kryptonite. I don't want him stoic to emotional turmoil or unquestionably cheerful.

I wholeheartedly agree for the most part. Well said.

Anyway, ranking the episodes:

1. Fever

2. Crisis (one of my top 5 episodes of season 3)

3. Stray

4. Promise

5. Lucy

6. Descent

7. Hypnotic

Haven't seen the rest.

[JorEl23]

BEST TO WORST:

1) Season 6 : Promise
2) Season 10: Scion
3) Season 2 : Fever
4) Season 7 : Descent
5) Season 9 : Escape
6) Season 8 : Turbulence
7) Season 4 : Lucy
8) Season 1 : Stray
9) Season 3 : Crisis
10) Season 5 : Hypnotic

[Anu]

I will have to say Descent

[ck123]

"Descent" "Fever" "Escape" and "Scion"

[Captain Beyond]

Descent for me.