Lois: Clark's mother or fiancee?

[morrigan01]

This is such a great analysis and so completely true. The bottom line is that Lois has ALWAYS responded to Clark's strength. Lois likes strong men. Lois wouldn't want Clark if he caved to her all the time.

This is going a little backwards in the discussion - and maybe even a little off-topic - but I had to comment because I so agree with this. IMO, Lois didn't start becoming attracted to Clark until, frankly, he started growing up and asserting himself more. That is always what drew her to him and appealed to her about him.

Even in this episode, when the thing with Bert happened and Clark knew he'd ended up proving part of the point Lois was making, he didn't go back to her groveling with his head down. He was very strong and direct, basically saying "okay, you were right, let the gloating begin."

That's what appeals to her. That, even when he admits he's wrong about something, he'll still act strong with her. Honestly, if Clark really let Lois walk all over him - well, she wouldn't be into him. Period. In fact, she'd probably see him kind-of like Jeff the Intern, whose name she couldn't even remember at first.

[BlueRanger]

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Originally Posted by LuluG
@ Audrey. My take on the Clark and Lois relationship is this: they aren't married yet, so why are they acting like an old married couple? Their relationship is still relatively young and they've only just started having sex. Shouldn't they should be all over each other, like in the comics? Once the 'honeymoon period' is over they can give each other all the chaste kisses they want! In the mean time I want to see passion.

I dont want to see clois kissing, caressing and having sex all the time to prove they are in love, no it will seem just contrived and forced, they are already doing that with chlollie. Masquerade is a breath of fresh air, couples do not just live in the romantic bliss, they have lives outside themselves, its nice to see clark and lois interacting with other people, talking about work, and not being touch feely and clinging on to each other every second. heck they can have arguments and get frustracted with one another, too much perfection is unrealistic and boring.

[Bizarrolover]

Or, and here's the even worse case scenario: Clark and Lois might be separated if his identity got compromised. Because Clark's the kind of person who would just as soon not ask Lois to have to live such a life in isolation with him. Not that I think she'd agree to such at thing. Nor do I think he could ever fully stay away from her (as we saw last season), but it would be just as real an option as them having to live in hiding for the rest of their lives - with Clark ever getting to be The Blur/Superman exclusively, and Lois not being able to have any life again at all.

Exactly, she'll always be the blur's ex and that will end her life as she knows it, if someone doesn't kill her first. And this has been Clark's greatest fear all these years, loosing people (that leave or die) because of who he is. Clark didn't realize how much he was risking until Lois pointed it out.

[ginevrakent]

@ Audrey. So I guess Clark should be hauled in by HR for being so tacky and unprofessional when he kissed Lois in Crossfire. Look, I think it's admirable you seem to defend Clark and Lois so much, God knows they have enough bashers. But I just don't think their romance has been as electrifying as it was pre-engagement - not even close. But that's my opinion; no need to get snippy.

What happened in Crossfire was a special case. It was a spur of the moment thing and a huge cathartic moment for Clark considering how much he had been holding back in previous episodes. Clark and Lois were actually censured a bit in Charade by visiting editor, Franklin Stern, for engaging an an office relationship right after taking the opportunity to make out in the elevator ride from the top floor to the basement. In my opinion, it's been made fairly clear that Lois and Clark know that they should avoid over the top PDAs while at the workplace.

I think the Lois and Clark relationship continues to evolve in ways that make what they have electrifying for me. But obviously the same isn't true for you, which is fine, we're all entitled to our different opinions. I just disagree with yours.

[morrigan01]

@ Audrey. So I guess Clark should be hauled in by HR for being so tacky and unprofessional when he kissed Lois in Crossfire.

No, but it did come back to bite them both in the ass in Charade, when them having an office romance became one of the reasons Franklin Stern first tried to fire one of them - and then ended up firing both of them. Because, you know, kissing in the middle of the bullpen probably is what started that office gossip to the point that the new manager knew about it after just showing up on the first day.

[Sherl]

MHO, they are not pawing each other every other moment because they do not need to do so. They have the farm to themselves. They know they can have satisfying sex whenever the time is right. But there is also more to life. Sex is great and fun, and all that. But what I am seeing with this Lois and Clark is two adults who love each other but don't need to be constantly maul the other to prove it. Again, JMO and YMMV!

ITA.

Clark and Lois are not teenagers - they are mature, responsible, secure young adults in love. And they are acting as so.

I have no doubt we will get "sexy" Clois again, when the setting is proper for it.

----- Added 1 Minutes later -----

I love this comparison. The parallel is perfect.

Oh thanks so much for the illustration Libby!

[BoyScout-ManOfTomorrow]

Jeph Loeb had a rather famous quote once though about Lois Lane and Clark Kent where he talked openly about how strong of a man Clark Kent was not just physically but emotionally and mentally as well. He said that he loved writing Lois and Clark and that it always boggled his mind when people criticized Lois for the way she acted. The bottom line is that Lois Lane is a very strong woman and she attracted a very strong man. Jeph Loeb believed that only a very strong man, like Clark, would truly be able to handle her. And I agree with him.

I like Loeb's work and he's imo one of the best writers for Superman and Lois Lane (even better with Batman). Haven't read stories from him that elevate Lois to the position or make her act like she is in Smallville though. Then again it's more like Clark isn't keeping up with her pace.

[Shootza]

No, but it did come back to bite them both in the ass in Charade, when them having an office romance became one of the reasons Franklin Stern first tried to fire one of them - and then ended up firing both of them. Because, you know, kissing in the middle of the bullpen probably is what started that office gossip to the point that the new manager knew about it after just showing up on the first day.

Exactly, the word got up to the big boys at the top that Clark and Lois were engaged in an inter-office romance, the people that work there aren't idiots someone complained. I'd find it disturbing if one of my co-workers just randomly shows up and starts making out with someone else in the middle of the office. I know some folks that I work with would be the first ones lined up at HR, to complain about this.

[Audrey229]

@ Audrey. So I guess Clark should be hauled in by HR for being so tacky and unprofessional when he kissed Lois in Crossfire.

Uh...yeah. He probably should have been. I thought that kiss was fantastic but if it was something he did on a regular basis then yeah...he'd probably be in trouble. No self respecting place of employment lets people make out in the middle of the office like that. What he did in Crossfire was romantic and sexy but it was also unprofessional.

And this was something that was brought up on the show in "Charade" when Franklin Stern said that he knew that they were engaged in an interoffice relationship and they quickly denied it. And they were probably right to deny it. Most companies have major rules against getting involved with someone that you work with. Then, later in the episode, Stern fired them after assuming that they had a "lover's spat." Their relationship cost them their jobs on "Charade." Thankfully, Perry White intervened for them. However, yes, I think the show has made it clear that they probably should be careful of the way they act around the office.

Look, I think it's admirable you seem to defend Clark and Lois so much, God knows they have enough bashers. But I just don't think their romance has been as electrifying as it was pre-engagement - not even close. But that's my opinion; no need to get snippy.

Well first off, let me be very clear: I don't think Clark and Lois need my defense. I think the writing, particularly in this last episode, and the acting by Tom and Erica spoke for itself. I think it was an excellent episode for both of them and I thought the script was very good to both of them. I read many critical reviews in places like Entertainment weekly that agreed. I don't think they need my defense. I provide my responses because I disagree with some of the blanket statements being made.

I guess you could argue that the Clois romance has not been a focal point on the show since their engagement. There have been other plotlines being serviced and I don't fault the show for that at all. However, I also think that the Lane/Kent vibe going on in this past episode had been sorely missed on the show and I was thrilled to step away from some of the over the top romance from the first part of the season to focus on their professional relationship for an episode.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. I never said that you weren't. However, the nature of a forum is that if we present an idea that people find offensive, people will in turn respond to that. I found some of your statements about being "old married couples" to be off putting and I responded with my opinion. That's not being snippy---it's calling disagreeing and explaining why I disagree.

It was a great episode. Great writing and great acting all around.

[Shootza]

Uh...yeah. He probably should have been. I thought that kiss was fantastic but if it was something he did on a regular basis then yeah...he'd probably be in trouble. No self respecting place of employment lets people make out in the middle of the office like that. What he did in Crossfire was romantic and sexy but it was also unprofessional.

And this was something that was brought up on the show in "Charade" when Franklin Stern said that he knew that they were engaged in an interoffice relationship and they quickly denied it. And they were probably right to deny it. Most companies have major rules against getting involved with someone that you work with. Then, later in the episode, Stern fired them after assuming that they had a "lover's spat." Their relationship cost them their jobs on "Charade." Thankfully, Perry White intervened for them. However, yes, I think the show has made it clear that they probably should be careful of the way they act around the office.

Exactly.

[ginevrakent]

Because, you know, kissing in the middle of the bullpen probably is what started that office gossip to the point that the new manager knew about it after just showing up on the first day.

It's even something that came up in the future in Homecoming, if I recall correctly. Wasn't the taboo of office relationships hinted at in this statement:

"We need to table this all until later. We cannot have people thinking things."

Oh thanks so much for the illustration Libby!

You're welcome.

[Audrey229]

I like Loeb's work and he's imo one of the best writers for Superman and Lois Lane (even better with Batman). Haven't read stories from him that elevate Lois to the position or make her act like she is in Smallville though. Then again it's more like Clark isn't keeping up with her pace.

Loeb is an excellent writer. It's just funny that you say that you don't think his Lois is like the Lois in Smallville as Jeph himself has said that he thinks that Erica's version of Lois is the closest live action version available to the comics.

We can agree to disagree on Clark.

----- Added 1 Minutes later -----

I'm cracking up right now that myself, Libby and Morrigan all brought up Franklin Stern firing Clark and Lois, in part, due to their relationship at work at the same time.

Great minds!

[Shootza]

I like Loeb's work and he's imo one of the best writers for Superman and Lois Lane (even better with Batman). Haven't read stories from him that elevate Lois to the position or make her act like she is in Smallville though. Then again it's more like Clark isn't keeping up with her pace.

Well if you read Loeb's work you'll see she's exactly like that.

This is what Loeb says to guys who think like that:

"I love when she gives Clark sh*t – nobody else gets to do that. I find it curious that when I write her that way, some folks think she's a b*tch. Go back and look at films where women had a little wit – the Katherine Hepburns and Lauren Bacalls and Myrna Loys –fantastic, strong women who were never b*tches. They were strong: Clark responds to that." - Jeph Loeb

I think the best thing is what Mark Waid has said about Lois:

“I mean, she’s different from Clark and Superman, that’s for sure. She’s bold, she’s brassy, and she really has no sense of boundaries. She’ll eat off your plate without asking (or noticing). She’ll storm into the men’s room if the line to the women’s room is too long. Her dad was a general, and she doesn’t completely understand that she’s not one, too. One of the reasons Superman is instantly attracted to her is because she constantly surprises him, and he’s hard to surprise.”

[Sherl]

It's even something that came up in the future in Homecoming, if I recall correctly. Wasn't the taboo of office relationships hinted at in this statement:

"We need to table this all until later. We cannot have people thinking things."

Yeah exactly.

The roof scene is a totally different setting - they were alone there. But while they were inside the building, their dynamic was pretty much like the one we saw in Masquerade.

[supes0]

MHO, the Crossfire kiss and Lois planning her wedding with paper doll cut outs of the Justice League while talking about secret identities as if everybody around her was deaf and blind are two moments that should have taken place in other settings. But I think that is more a meta issue (budget, sets, etc)