Lois: Clark's mother or fiancee?

[Audrey229]

At the moment I have a hard time believing Clark and Lois are even in love and engaged. There is a real lack of affection in most their scenes. The tiny peck on the cheek at the end is something a mother would give to a child - so maybe Lois is more like Clark's mom!

Well, I guess my marriage is in real trouble then because I give my husband kisses on the cheek all the time. And the idea that a peck on the cheek is something that only a mother would give a child is one of the most narrow definitions of love that I've ever heard.

You're treating AFFECTION as if it means the same thing as SEX. It doesn't.

Do you think that engaged and married couples are constantly sticking their tongues down each other's throats?

The truth is that sex is one piece of a healthy, lasting marriage. And it's a wonderful piece. And yes, it's an essential piece. But it's not the basis for lasting marriages. Sex is the icing on the cake. It's something amazing and awesome that you get to share with your partner as a physical manifestation of your feelings for each other. But it's the icing on the cake. It's not the cake itself.

I find the idea that there is a lack of "affection" between these two characters because they shared a kiss on the cheek to be incredibly ludicrous. The entire scene in the Daily Planet was a validation of how much Clark and Lois respected each other and loved each other. Clark was willing to let go of his pride and tone down his "hometown hero" routine so that he could be the hero the world needed---and he didn't want to put a mask over the face of the man that his parents raised OR over the face of the man that Lois loved. He wanted to be that man that she loved when he was out there saving people. And after promising to stand by him no matter what....Lois was supportive of that choice.

Look, I would LOVE to see some more sexuality on the show. The writers have chosen not to show that side of Lois and Clark's relationship since Ambush. And yes, I would like to see more of it. But at the same time, the fact that the show has not been focusing on it doesn't mean that there is no affection between them. Relationships are about more than just sex. These two characters are not immature 16 years olds. They are ADULTS who are planning to share a life together. And defining love and affection by how many times characters make out or have sex is, imo, missing what it really means to love someone and to build a life with someone. Sex is the icing. It's not the batter.

----- Added 6 Minutes later -----

I too don't really like the fact that Lois been acting all motherly. She was much worse in Collateral. Asking Clark if he wanted a sandwich

I don't see what's eyeroll worthy about a woman caring enough about her fiance who had just been released from potentially painful imprisonment if he needs to eat something because he looks weak.

I also don't see why only mothers are allowed to care this way. If my husband walked in after being missing for weeks and looked the way Clark had....I would have asked him if he needed to eat something too. Because it's a way of being considerate to someone that you love.

Do you honestly believe that it's eyeroll worthy for wives to ask their husbands if they want something to eat when they look weak? That that is only behavior reserved for mothers?

Let me tell you something...if a close friend or my sister or brother walked in my house looking weak...I would offer them something to eat too. I would do it for anyone that I loved. There is nothing eyeroll worthy about looking after the needs of someone that you love.

I wish that Lois never learned how to cook. I loved that about her

What I love about Lois is that she's determined to try new things even if she fails at them. It's clear that cooking does not come naturally to her. She's not an expert chef like Lana was. It's not a natural talent. But Lois is the kind of person who will try to get something right and she'll keep trying until she succeeds. And truthfully, she'll probably never be a great cook. We learned in "Beacon" that she was "getting better" but it seemed to be a very frazzling and stressful activity for her. But I respect any person fictional or real who tries to tackle something that they find scary and tries to learn a new skill.

[Babbers]

At the moment I have a hard time believing Clark and Lois are even in love and engaged. There is a real lack of affection in most their scenes. The tiny peck on the cheek at the end is something a mother would give to a child - so maybe Lois is more like Clark's mom!

I'd have to disagree with you here...this relationship between Clark and Lois feels very real to me. This is how two married people treat each other when they are in a deeply committed relationship with one another. I love the way they show affection towards one another in these small gestures...this is the stuff that sustains a happy couple through an entire lifetime. In the case of Superman...this deeply rooted understanding and love for a human woman will sustain him through many lifetimes.

[Sherl]

Audrey, you're on a roll lately LOL - I'm just going to say ITA with both your wonderful posts on this thread.

[LuluG]

@ Audrey. Whoah! I wasn't even thinking about the lack of sexual scenes. I was talking about the fact that Clark and Lois seemed to be kind of irritated in each other's company in this episode. The whoosh scene and the DP scenes for instance.

But hey, now that you've reminded me, more sex scenes would be cool!

[Audrey229]

@ Audrey. Whoah! I wasn't even thinking about the lack of sexual scenes. I was talking about the fact that Clark and Lois seemed to be kind of irritated in each other's presence in this episode. The whoosh scene and the DP scenes for instance.

Well, you brought up Lois kissing Clark on the cheek in a negative way. I'm sure you can understand why I thought that's where you were going with it. You stated that Lois was Clark's mother because she kissed him on the cheek. And I find that ridiculous for all the reasons I stated.

As for them being irritated with each other...

Do you think that married couples don't get irritated with each other? Do you think that happily married couples don't occasionally fight or bicker or feel frustrated with each other? That's REAL. That happens. It happens in healthy relationships all the freaking time. And frankly after weeks of BLISS between Clark and Lois where I felt like Clark was one step away from spouting poetry to her, I was THRILLED to see them acting like a real couple that occasionally disagrees.

Yet, there wasn't one time in the whole episode where either one of them took a cheat shot at each other or hit below the belt. They were mature and were still able to work together even though they were frustrated. They maturely apologized to each other in the end and they were honest about their feelings. That's a mature relationship. In fact, Clark stated outright that one of the reasons that he didn't want to wear a mask was because he didn't want to hide the face of the man that LOIS loved when he was out doing what he was born to do. He was willing to dial down his own ego and downplay his hometown hero routine so that they could have a safer life together. For the life of me, I can't fathom how anyone could watch this episode and question if there is affection between these two characters. They were written as MATURE ADULTS in a real relationship with all the real issues that real adults go through when they are planning to share a life together---with superpowers thrown in.

Occasional frustration with your partner is a very real part of marriage. I thought it was very realistic and well written.

[batfinx]

Clois is slowly evolving into Chlark circa Season 5,6,7

I figured out why this comparison is false just by looking back at how Clark behaved with Chloe back in the day and how he behaves with Lois now because Clark is the key here, not the women.

Remember Sneeze? Chloe literally had to teach Clark how to use his super breath. That still pisses me off. But compare that weak Clark to super Clark in Masquerade, who not only developed "microvision" without help, but named it and defended the name choice "it's my power..." Awesome

Bottom line, the reason Martha knew Lois was the perfect fit for her son is because for Lois to love Clark he has to be strong, decisive, and be willing to draw a line in the sand and dare Lois to cross it. Not to fight him, but to be on his side. He sticks to his guns with Lois because that's the only kind of man she respects and he knows that.

All women mother their men on occasion, even Lois, but she's no smothering mother hen figure like Chloe. Lois is more of a red hot mama

[Audrey229]

Remember Sneeze? Chloe literally had to teach Clark how to use his super breath. That still pisses me off. But compare that weak Clark to super Clark in Masquerade, who not only developed "microvision" without help, but named it and defended the name choice "it's my power..." Awesome

That was awesome.

Bottom line, the reason Martha knew Lois was the perfect fit for her son is because for Lois to love Clark he has to be strong, decisive, and be willing to draw a line in the sand and dare Lois to cross it. Not to fight him, but to be on his side. He sticks to his guns with Lois because that's the only kind of man she respects and he knows that.

This is such a great analysis and so completely true. The bottom line is that Lois has ALWAYS responded to Clark's strength. Lois likes strong men. Lois wouldn't want Clark if he caved to her all the time.

All women mother their men on occasion, even Lois, but she's no smothering mother hen figure like Chloe. Lois is more of a red hot mama :lol

:

I don't think "mothering" is quite the right word. I think it's more a form of nuture. I think spouses nurture each other in different ways and that is a part of loving each other and looking out for each other. I'm not home every night in time to cook but when I am home before my husband...I make dinner for us. And it's not because I'm his "mother" or something else insulting like that. It's because if I'm home first, I want to think about him and I try to do something nice for him before he gets home. If he gets home first, he does the same thing. I don't do these things for him because I'm trying to mother him nor does he do these sweet things for me because he's trying to be my father. But we do take care of each other in various ways. That's a part of being married. Why that is being made to be a BAD thing here is beyond me. I can't imagine a healthy, happy marriage WITHOUT each person taking the time to nurture the other.

[BoyScout-ManOfTomorrow]

Personally, what I would find insulting would be this show not being mature enough to recognize that marriage is a huge commitment and that if you are mature enough to make the decision to spend your life with someone that you should be mature enough to recognize that your life isn't just your own anymore.

I also find this argument particularly false coming off this week's episode---an episode where Clark was written beautifully and articulated in clear terms a the end of the episode where he was coming from and how he was feeling about the situation. It was also an episode where we saw Clark working on his own and investigating on his own and then going after DeSaad on his own and defeating him on his own. Just as we've seen Lois go off and investigate on her own.

I haven't been married yet but if I were trying to take examples out of real life I wouldn't want my girlfriend to tell me how to do my job. And it works both ways, the minute I'd start bossing my gf about how to go about her job I'd pretty much allow her to slap my face at that point. That's how much I hate the notion of someone (me included) entering a part of someone's life that is none of their business.

Yes you could argue that concidering the sort of job Clark does it will affect them both. But I'd like to point out that the amount of involvement Lois has on Clark isn't mutual. Clark doesn't always ask help either so it makes Lois look a bit invading at times. Also we don't get enough material from both characters that doesn't involve the other. Too few ace reporter Lois Lane, too few Blur scenes.

Clark was written well in "Masquerade" I agree and I hope it keeps up. I was talking about S10 as a whole. Lois some times feels like a suffocating girlfriend. I know she isn't passive by any means and never was but this is just too much for me personnally.

[margarita_salt]

Lois has been a little overbearing lately but she is that way with everyone!

I think the whole thing about "lack of affection" is true. They dont really seem to have any chemistry but when they are at the daily planet they cant have any kind relationship unless it is a working relationship.

I think Lois "mothers" Clark because she is afraid of losing him because she knows that he has a calling bigger than their relationship and that relationship will change one day. Who would'nt be afraid of that!

[TomsBelle51]

^^^ Chemistry isn't the same thing as affection. No they aren't all over each other like horny teenagers but I think they are still affectionate. I love the little things between Clark and Lois as well as the hot kisses.

Anyway, no I don't think Lois is acting like his mother. She's acting like someone who is going to share her life with him. His actions effect her life as well, and the impression I got was that she wants him to be the hero and have a life with her.

[morrigan01]

I haven't been married yet but if I were trying to take examples out of real life I wouldn't want my girlfriend to tell me how to do my job.

And Lois actually hasn't at all been telling Clark how to do his job, especially in this episode. The talk they had was related to how his job affected them - affected them both. She told him why she thought she should have a disguise, and tried to persuade him why her opinion was what it was, but Clark - very much - articulated why he was reluctant to do so. They both had very valid opinions express about something that affects both of their lives.

Because, again, that is the key issue here. Clark identity ever being compromised would effect her just as much as him. But at no point did Lois tell Clark what he should do, or lecture him into doing what she wanted. This isn't Lois having an opinion on something that doesn't concern her, and trying to tell Clark what to do. She gave her opinion, he gave his counter one (mostly seen in the barn scene), and when they reached an impasse on it, she never once tried to force him to do what she wanted.

But as I said, maybe people would prefer it if Lois just acted all Stepford Wife and didn't have an opinion or concern about anything that would affect her life like the issue raised in this episode would have. I really don't see how expressing her opinion to Clark on a subject that will affect both of them is acting like "a mother," but there you have it.

And really, the idea that these two can't disagree or snark at each other while still being in love is, as Audrey said, is an unrealistic view of relationships. Lois and Clark will have disagreements like this on occasion - because that's how real relationships work. Plus, bantering with each other has always been their thing. Even when madly in love they will still snarkily banter with each other. And personally, I think that has been something that was lacking this season more than wanting to see them jump each other's bones every episode.

Oh, and pretty much ditto everything else Audrey said above as well.

[LuluG]

@ Audrey. My take on the Clark and Lois relationship is this: they aren't married yet, so why are they acting like an old married couple? Their relationship is still relatively young and they've only just started having sex. Shouldn't they should be all over each other, like in the comics? Once the 'honeymoon period' is over they can give each other all the chaste kisses they want! In the mean time I want to see passion.

[Dyanara]

Clois didn't annoy me as much as they did in previous episodes. But Lois is definitely coming off more as a mother to Clark than his lover and future wife. She has to give him a pep talk every episode like a mother sending her son out onto the soccer field for the first time. Then she is constantly saying how proud she is of Clark, which does not need to be mentioned over and over and over again.
I also agree that they just don't seem in love or attracted to each other that much anymore. They have become boring and give me the impression of just being together because that is how it is supposed to be, not because it is what they want. Well it's what Lois wants because she treats Clark like a god.
Couples should lean on each other and depend on each other, but Lois is definitely acting like his nagging mother.

----- Added 40 Seconds later -----

@ Audrey. My take on the Clark and Lois relationship is this: they aren't married yet, so why are they acting like an old married couple? Their relationship is still relatively young and they've only just started having sex. Shouldn't they should be all over each other, like in the comics? Once the 'honeymoon period' is over they can give each other all the chaste kisses they want! In the mean time I want to see passion.

That crappy kiss on the cheek was just insulting; I would have prefered nothing rather than that.

[Audrey229]

I haven't been married yet but if I were trying to take examples out of real life I wouldn't want my girlfriend to tell me how to do my job. And it works both ways, the minute I'd start bossing my gf about how to go about her job I'd pretty much allow her to slap my face at that point. That's how much I hate the notion of someone (me included) entering a part of someone's life that is none of their business.

Except that your analogy doesn't work. First off, being someone's girlfriend is different than being someones wife. You have more rights as a spouse and you have at that point taken a vow to honor that person forever. Lois doesn't tell Clark how to do his job. She doesn't tell him how to put out fires, or pull people from explosions or run across the ocean. She's not telling him how to be Superman. She's not telling him the correct way to save people. What she is expressing concern about is people recognizing his FACE and his entire identity vanishing in an instant because Clark will never be able to go anywhere without people mobbing him. A concern that, by the way, she's also had in the source material. These are two TOTALLY different things.

And the later? Clark's identity being compromised and his entire life changing in a flash? Is absolutely her business. The things that Lois has expressed concerns about are things that she was every RIGHT to be concerned about as his future wife. And Clark, being the mature man that he is--a man who understands the kinds of vows you take when you get married---agrees that she has a right to be a part of these choices.

Yes you could argue that concidering the sort of job Clark does it will affect them both. But I'd like to point out that the amount of involvement Lois has on Clark isn't mutual. Clark doesn't always ask help either so it makes Lois look a bit invading at times.

I don't have to argue that Clark's role as Superman will affect them both. That's factual. It's not up for debate. Clark's role as Superman will deeply impact their marriage.

And I strongly disagree that Clark doesn't have the same impact on Lois that she has on him. Clark has saved Lois's ass more times than I can count on this show. And I'm not just talking pulling her out of a building. He's covered for her in awkward situations and taken burdens upon himself so that Lois can be spared embarassment on multiple occasions. Lois has flat out given him credit for years now for inspiring her and driving her to believe and for showing her what it means to truly be a hero.

And you're right---Clark doesn't always ask for help. Neither does Lois. But part of being in a marriage is recognizing what your partner needs without them having to ask for it. Sometimes, it also means having the courage to voice unpopular opinions.

Lois some times feels like a suffocating girlfriend. I know she isn't passive by any means and never was but this is just too much for me personnally.

Well, you're not Clark. ::shrugs:: What you define as suffocating he defines as support and as understanding what it really means to marry someone.

Jeph Loeb had a rather famous quote once though about Lois Lane and Clark Kent where he talked openly about how strong of a man Clark Kent was not just physically but emotionally and mentally as well. He said that he loved writing Lois and Clark and that it always boggled his mind when people criticized Lois for the way she acted. The bottom line is that Lois Lane is a very strong woman and she attracted a very strong man. Jeph Loeb believed that only a very strong man, like Clark, would truly be able to handle her. And I agree with him.

[Sherl]

I thought the cheek kiss was the most adorable thing ever, and it paralleled Jor-El and Lara in Abandoned on their message to Clark. I had a feeling we'd see them parallel that gesture down the road since that episode.