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When clark says "stay put" then stay there!!!!

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  • #16
    Oliver made consistent mistakes throughout the episode, but here's my top four:

    1) He and Chloe went after the big dogs, alone and unarmed. Chloe foreshadows this bit of idiocy in talking about the FBI agents: " ...the Jones' may have gotten made but they had no idea what they were getting themselves into." Chloe and Oliver should have known better than to raid that club by themselves. If they didn't want to call Clark, they could have called a dozen others.

    2) Oliver leaves Chloe alone. Chloe even complains about it. Because it makes perfect sense to leave your petite girlfriend, by herself, unarmed, in the back alley of a violent sex club ... even when that club isn't potential headquarters for an epic darkness threatening mankind. *slow clap*

    3) He ignores Clark's warning. Clark had fought the darkness before. He had tracked it with his cousin months before Oliver even knew about it. He had super-powers to fight it. Oliver isn't disobedient; he's illogical. Leading to . . .

    4) He COMPLETELY ignores Clark's warning. Not only does he follow Clark back to Desaad's den, but he doesn't even stop for a wardrobe change or to pick up a butter knife. He goes back, again, unarmed. He doesn't call reinforcements. What was he going to do if Clark failed? I mean, what was he going to do if the super-powered Kryptonian turned to the Darkseid? He's lucky Darkseid wanted his punk tail-feathers because a gunshot from across the room would have sufficed to take him out this episode.

    Oliver was making stupid mistakes long before Chloe got kidnapped. It wasn't just passion for his woman: it was a reckless disregard for safety -- the same disregard that led him to reveal his secret earlier in the season and the same disregard that got him in trouble a few times all the way back in season 6. Combined with a rage issue he's had for over three seasons now and that's how he messed up royally in Masquerade, IMHO.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by LoD
      Oliver made consistent mistakes throughout the episode, but here's my top four:

      1) He and Chloe went after the big dogs, alone and unarmed. Chloe foreshadows this bit of idiocy in talking about the FBI agents: " ...the Jones' may have gotten made but they had no idea what they were getting themselves into." Chloe and Oliver should have known better than to raid that club by themselves. If they didn't want to call Clark, they could have called a dozen others.

      2) Oliver leaves Chloe alone. Chloe even complains about it. Because it makes perfect sense to leave your petite girlfriend, by herself, unarmed, in the back alley of a violent sex club ... even when that club isn't potential headquarters for an epic darkness threatening mankind. *slow clap*

      3) He ignores Clark's warning. Clark had fought the darkness before. He had tracked it with his cousin months before Oliver even knew about it. He had super-powers to fight it. Oliver isn't disobedient; he's illogical. Leading to . . .

      4) He COMPLETELY ignores Clark's warning. Not only does he follow Clark back to Desaad's den, but he doesn't even stop for a wardrobe change or to pick up a butter knife. He goes back, again, unarmed. He doesn't call reinforcements. What was he going to do if Clark failed? I mean, what was he going to do if the super-powered Kryptonian turned to the Darkseid? He's lucky Darkseid wanted his punk tail-feathers because a gunshot from across the room would have sufficed to take him out this episode.

      Oliver was making stupid mistakes long before Chloe got kidnapped. It wasn't just passion for his woman: it was a reckless disregard for safety -- the same disregard that led him to reveal his secret earlier in the season and the same disregard that got him in trouble a few times all the way back in season 6. Combined with a rage issue he's had for over three seasons now and that's how he messed up royally in Masquerade, IMHO.
      Wow, great post. Regarding 1) let's not forget they also blew the agents cover and that one of them died.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by BadToad
        Do you really believe there was time for Clark and Oliver to discuss a plan? My impression was that time was of the absolute essence, and in fact, considering when Clark got there to speed Chloe away, there wasn't a moment to waste. There just really wasn't time for Clark to try to reason with Oliver, come up with a mutual plan, and make sure Oliver kept away. IMO
        I believe they could have worked together instead of shutting the other person out and going about it their own way.
        Last edited by Nivea; 02-22-2011, 04:34 PM.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Nivea
          I believe they could have worked together instead of shutting the other person out and going about it their own way.
          Well that's just crazy, it's not like we are dealing with here adult men here; oh wait Clark and Oliver are supposed to be adults.

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          • #20
            I believe they could have worked together instead of shutting the other person out and going about it their own way.
            And really, where was the time to work on this plan? When did Clark get to Chloe? About 10 seconds before Desaad was going to bestow the tears of death upon her. So, if he stops to try and reason with Oliver, and explain what he's going to do, and stress why its necessary for Oliver to stay away in his current frame of mind, do we think Clark still gets there in time?

            What was more important in that moment? Oliver's feelings and ego, or saving Chloe's life? For Clark, it was the latter. Isn't that a good thing?

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            • #21
              Really sick of Oliver at this point.

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              • #22
                i think the biggest mistake that oliver and chloe did was the one that lead to all of the other mistakes, and thats taking someone else's identity just so that they can get a table. think about it, if they hadn't they wouldn't have blown the agents cover, and wouldn't have been in all the mess they were in.

                but thats my opinion.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by BadToad
                  And really, where was the time to work on this plan? When did Clark get to Chloe? About 10 seconds before Desaad was going to bestow the tears of death upon her. So, if he stops to try and reason with Oliver, and explain what he's going to do, and stress why its necessary for Oliver to stay away in his current frame of mind, do we think Clark still gets there in time?

                  What was more important in that moment? Oliver's feelings and ego, or saving Chloe's life? For Clark, it was the latter. Isn't that a good thing?
                  uh, obviously you seem to think that my ideal way would be for Clark and Oliver to have a nice chat about things. which isn't the case. I think they could have WORKED TOGETHER. Now, if you don't understand the meaning behind that, then I'd say there's no point in me further talking to you.

                  Bye bye.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Nivea
                    uh, obviously you seem to think that my ideal way would be for Clark and Oliver to have a nice chat about things. which isn't the case. I think they could have WORKED TOGETHER. Now, if you don't understand the meaning behind that, then I'd say there's no point in me further talking to you.

                    Bye bye.

                    Work together? How? Clark has superspeed, Oliver would only slow him down and it's not that it was a complicated rescue that demanded any kind of intrincated planification. I guess Clark could have said 'I'll superspeed there, grab your bow and take the car' instead of 'stay put', just to spare Oliver's feelings, but that wouldn't have changed things. Oliver wasn't in his right frame of mind, he would still get to the scene 10 min later and chloe would be either dead or already safe. Just to stop to think of a coordinated action (that would be completely pointless because it was something Clark could easily manage on his own) would have wasted precious seconds. Clark warned him about the darkness, Oliver knew exactly what he was dealing with and still he got cought in Desaad's manipulation. I think 'stay put' was the best advice Clark could have given him.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Bizarrolover
                      Work together? How? Clark has superspeed, Oliver would only slow him down and it's not that it was a complicated rescue that demanded any kind of intrincated planification. I guess Clark could have said 'I'll superspeed there, grab your bow and take the car' instead of 'stay put', just to spare Oliver's feelings, but that wouldn't have changed things. Oliver wasn't in his right frame of mind, he would still get to the scene 10 min later and chloe would be either dead or already safe. Just to stop to think of a coordinated action (that would be completely pointless because it was something Clark could easily manage on his own) would have wasted precious seconds. Clark warned him about the darkness, Oliver knew exactly what he was dealing with and still he got cought in Desaad's manipulation. I think 'stay put' was the best advice Clark could have given him.
                      Sorry, don't have time for reading your whole post. But you know what? It's a show! They could have easily written something where Clark and Oliver show some actual teamwork in order to get the job done instead of both running off without including the other.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Bizarrolover
                        Work together? How? Clark has superspeed, Oliver would only slow him down and it's not that it was a complicated rescue that demanded any kind of intrincated planification. I guess Clark could have said 'I'll superspeed there, grab your bow and take the car' instead of 'stay put', just to spare Oliver's feelings, but that wouldn't have changed things. Oliver wasn't in his right frame of mind, he would still get to the scene 10 min later and chloe would be either dead or already safe. Just to stop to think of a coordinated action (that would be completely pointless because it was something Clark could easily manage on his own) would have wasted precious seconds. Clark warned him about the darkness, Oliver knew exactly what he was dealing with and still he got cought in Desaad's manipulation. I think 'stay put' was the best advice Clark could have given him.
                        ITA with your entire post. the bolded is what i laughed at .

                        ----- Added 9 Minutes later -----

                        Originally posted by Nivea
                        Sorry, don't have time for reading your whole post. But you know what? It's a show! They could have easily written something where Clark and Oliver show some actual teamwork in order to get the job done instead of both running off without including the other.
                        imo, teamwork wasn't exactly needed in this episode, all clark needed was his superspeed. i think that the problem is that its not easy to write something where teamwork is needed when dealing with clark because usually clark/superman doesn't need a lot of help in protecting metropolis or making saves. personally, this is why i feel that the green arrow should have never really starred on smallville, because many times, clark/superman is a solo hero. he doesn't need partners or sidekicks to help him. to me, the justice league should come together when the situation gets to big for one hero to handle.
                        Last edited by skye4376; 02-23-2011, 06:29 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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                        • #27
                          Ollie shouldn't have gone but I don't see Clark staying put if it was Lois or being calm if he believed she was dead. Clark is not immune to letting his emotions take over.
                          No, but Clark is getting better at it. He has far more self-discipline now. Which is why Clark was able to fight off the Darkness. Ollie lacks that essential self-discipline; which is why he's got an omega symbol branded on his skull.

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                          • #28
                            I said something similar to this in another thread. I am getting really sick of Oliver and the other members disobeying Clark's orders. Especially when it comes to alien evils i.e. doomsday , brainiac and dark side just to name a few. In my opinion, when you are dealing with an alien threat the only two people that have any authority to set what must be done are Clark and John Jones, because they are aliens. You never see Clark (in any version of Superman) tried to enforce his way of thinking on our society meaning that he follows our laws, use our system of government etc. etc. if he really wanted to he could destroy our government and create his own and it would probably be better anyway (I am not saying he would do this or should do it but my point is that he leaves humans to handle human affairs) and the rest of the Justice league should do the same when it comes to aliens. Oliver and Chloe especially have this mentality of you want something done right you have to do it yourself and do not think they ever trust that Clark will come through and save the people or do the right thing (in fact, I know it because it has been shown many times in season eight in season nine) when I saw the omega symbol on Oliver's head part of me felt sorry for him, but the other part said that is what he deserved. Oliver and Chloe should have learned by now that when you go behind Clark's back or disobey an order something terrible always happens to you or other people (i.e. doomsday and brainiac NOW omega symbol on Oliver's head). Remember, just my opinions

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                            • #29
                              Ollie not listening ended up costing him..but who would listen?
                              And who the hell is Clark to order Ollie around honestly?

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                              • #30
                                And who the hell is Clark to order Ollie around honestly?
                                The guy who was able to whoosh in, rescue Chloe before Desaad murdered her, and resist getting marked by The Darkness!?

                                I don't know, sounds like the guy Oliver should've listened to here. JMO, YMMV

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