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SV = Strong Women, Weak Men
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MOD EDIT
its not even about strong women only, its about everyone male or female being written as some what more tougher, wiser and better than clark. Strong women martha/lois/chloe stood out in this one episode and other episodes. MOD EDIT since s6 how ollie has been written more heroic than clark, but now he is just worse than clark really,MOD EDIT
"its just a clark is the lead and our hero, lets see that", ...thing.Last edited by Vergon6; 02-12-2011, 05:18 PM. Reason: Violation of Rule #10-fan-on-fan talk, telling another board member to 'chill'Comment
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Last week was not a favorite of mine, but neither Lois nor Chloe were capable of saving Clark in Collateral. The final message of the episode was that Clark had to trust himself in order to escape the virtual reality. Chloe, because of her inside knowledge, and Lois because of her blind faith, had an advantage over Clark. However, like one of the messages of The Matrix, one message from Collateral was "Know Thyself." In addition, just like The Matrix, people could show Clark the door, but it was up to him to walk through it.
The ability to "walk through the door" wasn't something that was an intellectual or physical exercise, but rather a spiritual and emotional one. There is no handbook, and thus no possible way that Lois or Chloe could have given Clark what he needed. He needed to know himself. Thus, what he needed was inside of him all along.Comment
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Originally posted by BlueRanger;7100049[BMOD EDIT[/B]
its not even about strong women only, its about everyone male or female being written as some what more tougher, wiser and better than clark. Strong women martha/lois/chloe stood out in this one episode and other episodes. MOD EDIT since s6 how ollie has been written more heroic than clark, but now he is just worse than clark really,MOD EDIT
"its just a clark is the lead and our hero, lets see that", ...thing.Comment
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MOD EDIT
In Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman, for example, Clark despairs that he couldn't do enough to save people, and wonders if Superman is really worthwhile. Lois reminds him that it's not what Superman does, but the *idea* of Superman which matters most.Comment
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In my opinion, any comparison between women vs. men is criticizing women by default. If I am going to criticize how the men on Smallville are written, all I need to do is focus on the men. By bringing women into the discussion at all, it forces a comparison that implies strong women make the men on the show appear "less than" their female counterparts. In short, how the women of Smallville are written should have nothing to do with how the men of Smallville are written and vice versa.Comment
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Lois' SUPPORT does NOT make Clark look weak, imho.
But the way he had to defer to Lana and Chloe all the years PRIOR to this one... then that was a problem.
I think Clark has been his STRONGEST since Homecoming
Minus a few hiccups here and there... but NOTHING compared to seasons 5-8.Comment
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This pretty much sums up my issues as of late. Clark is the lead and hero and I would just like to see him a little more self-sufficient - like the women are. I just don't like the idea of Clark being so dependent, so in need of constant guidance & reassurance at this point in the game. It doesn't strike me as in keeping with the comics or movies. The only character I feel is written more poorly than Clark is Oliver.
Furthermore, Lois may have been upbeat about the public in this episode, but she was very discouraged and in need of inspiration in other areas of her life. She didn't feel good enough for Martha, so she tried to impress her. She worried about being able to ever make an impact as a reporter, and found inspiration and encouragement in Martha and Perry; she even credits both at the end of the episode.
In short, Lois was depicted as needing reassurance and guidance as well, and Clark was depicted as independently following a line of investigation and continuing to save people in spite of his assumption that the public didn't believe in him enough.Comment
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...its not even about strong women only, its about everyone male or female being written as some what more tougher, wiser and better than clark. Strong women martha/lois/chloe stood out in this one episode and other episodes. People have complained numerous times since s6 how ollie has been written more heroic than clark, but now he is just worse than clark really, so the complains have ceized for now.
Clark should NOT be written as less capable than anyone on the show... It just shouldn't be that way... the show is ABOUT him!! Well, it should be...Comment
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MOD EDIT
Hold on, I love Clark and I want to see him shine as much as the next person. However, he doesn't need to be written as more capable than everyone in order to shine. Clark shines by showing off his unique strengths not because everyone else looks weak and dull in comparison.Last edited by Vergon6; 02-12-2011, 05:13 PM. Reason: Violation of Rule #10, 13-psychoanalyzing, fan-on-fan-talkComment
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Clark was at his worst in Seasons 5-7. Lex was also not the famous villain he is supposed to be because fooling Lana was the first truly bad thing he did. 33.1 should've been number 1! Lame. Clark grew up in S8, and grew up more in S9. SV loves drama, so AI Jor-El breaking Clark's spirit is very much SV. I never liked SV's version of Jor-El. Jonathan and Lionel were very strong men. Clark was awesome in Season 8(I ignore the Clana arc) and 9, and his leadership skills are coming back in S10. Lana was always the ultimate victim on SV.Comment
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In my opinion, any comparison between women vs. men is criticizing women by default. If I am going to criticize how the men on Smallville are written, all I need to do is focus on the men. By bringing women into the discussion at all, it forces a comparison that implies strong women make the men on the show appear "less than" their female counterparts. In short, how the women of Smallville are written should have nothing to do with how the men of Smallville are written and vice versa.
What they're not doing this season that I would love them to do is give Lois her own independent plots and show her investigating things, writing articles, and actually show her finish her journey becoming the world class reporter. Where has Lois been lately? We've seen her a great deal at Watchtower, the farm, and everywhere but on the streets searching for a story. We saw her pulled into the VRA storyline rather than her & Clark making sure there is no apparent connection between them so that Lois & Clark can each tackle different aspects of the VRA plot (Lois the investigative part & Clark the hero & other investigative parts). Lois has been out of her classic element--reporting--a great deal this season (as far as screen time goes). By not giving her a plot of her own or her own independent role in Clark's plot that fits into the classic role Lois takes, the end result has often been her holding Clark's hand or doing things he should be doing---like being the beacon (or beacon middleman) in this episode.
I thought they did a great job with Lois last season and a much better job with Clark. But since then, they both seem less like who they're supposed to be. And Clark has looked very weak over the last 2 episodes. The last time Clark looked very strong was in Ambush, where it came at the expense of Lois, who looked weak. So maybe other than Lazarus, this show has not demonstrated to me this season that they could write both characters strong without coming at the expense of the other. And the same would go for Chloe & Oliver. And between those 2, Chloe feeds off Oliver's character as she used to feed off Clark.
Even Martha has been feeding off Clark's character ever since Hostage where the Lana-ization of her began with the beginning of her "needing to protect Clark" mentality. And I hate that, because the line's supposed to be drawn at Clark's parents since they made him who he is.Last edited by xrayvision; 02-11-2011, 09:02 PM.Comment
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Originally posted by HopeforTomorrowIt's not scapegoating. The facts and the evidence have been clear on this show, mainly since Season 5 IMO. Just look at Jimmy for example - he was fine and written alright when he was helping Clark, but when he's around Chloe, he becomes an insecure manslave. If you haven't noticed this over the years, then I just don't know what to tell you. I'd also remind you that you should stop with the scapegoating accusations and challenging others opinions if they just happen to rub you the wrong way. If you don't agree with them, ignore them. Simple and easy.
Anyway, I agree that male characters on this show have often been written as insecure, but I personally prefer to focus on just asking for the men to written better. I don't need to bring women into the conversation at all. But, hey, that's just me. You don't have to agree with me. Agree to disagree?
----- Added 15 Minutes later -----
And that's what I think the original poster was referring to. I'm all for strong female characters. But given who's running this network regarding Smallville, it doesn't only want strong women, but weak men at the same time.
My honest opinion is that some of the writing that leads to strong female characters and the writing that causes weak male characters are not mutually exclusive given what I've witnessed over the years.
What they're not doing this season that I would love them to do is give Lois her own independent plots and show her investigating things, writing articles, and actually show her finish her journey becoming the world class reporter. Where has Lois been lately?
The last time Clark looked very strong was in Ambush, where it came at the expense of Lois, who looked weak.Comment
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Its been my opinion for a very long time now, and it continues to be my opinion now, that the writers for this show are just flat-out more interested in writing for the female characters over the male characters, to include (and maybe especially) their main character. It didn't originate in S10, but its a freaking crime that it continues into SV's final season. I think, right now, the writers are far more interested in writing Lois then Clark. I think they're more interested in writing Chloe then Oliver. Its obvious they like writing for Tess all season. And Martha was also written strong.
And its not an opinon that the CW as a network is geared towards females, as its something they loudly proclaim constantly. Is this writing network dictated? Maybe, I couldn't say. But do I think that a problem exists with the writing for this show. Oh, you bet!Comment
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Its been my opinion for a very long time now, and it continues to be my opinion now, that the writers for this show are just flat-out more interested in writing for the female characters over the male characters, to include (and maybe especially) their main character. It didn't originate in S10, but its a freaking crime that it continues into SV's final season. I think, right now, the writers are far more interested in writing Lois then Clark. I think they're more interested in writing Chloe then Oliver. Its obvious they like writing for Tess all season. And Martha was also written strong.
And its not an opinon that the CW as a network is geared towards females, as its something they loudly proclaim constantly. Is this writing network dictated? Maybe, I couldn't say. But do I think that a problem exists with the writing for this show. Oh, you bet!Comment
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