It's Official - Sam came back without a soul

[LuthorKent90]

I don't think the Sam Angel thing is at all similar.
Angel was a vampire cursed with a soul because he was such a brutal vampire.
Sam is without a soul because they're wanting to use him to do who know what but we know it's not for good.

There was a lot of soul talk on Buffy because they were dealing with vampires.
It wasn't very original.

[Anno_Domini]

, i hope the writers put real emphasis on the NO SOUL, im serious, because my friend, hes not stupid i told him he was like.. meh kool, and hes a really hyped SPN fan..

i explained to him, that its not like Dean when he sold it, he still had it, but surrendered himself after the allocated time.. so i guess they clear it up in a small line.. que the OMG OMG OMG OMG

Dean; 'Bobby were not talking fricking sold it, we have no clue where this meatsacks soul is, *and what happened to it'

Maybe he is? I clearly understand what they are doing with Sam's missing soul storyline and I'm pretty sure every one else does as well.

Selling your soul means, after a certain timeframe, you are sent to Hell.

Sam having no soul means he came back without a soul.

Where's the confusion?

[mkn]

Maybe he is? I clearly understand what they are doing with Sam's missing soul storyline and I'm pretty sure every one else does as well.

Selling your soul means, after a certain timeframe, you are sent to Hell.

Sam having no soul means he came back without a soul.

Where's the confusion?

no hes not stupid... but dopey yeah thats for sure, thats why im saying one line of clarification might make it click for some viewers.. i didnt think of this as a criticism or anything, it actually happened today lol..

[LuthorKent90]

I'm confused. Who's stupid? What?

----- Added 2 Minutes later -----

That was basically it. As well in the episode, he kept telling Dean that "he can't lie", to make it seem that he is telling the truth to Dean. Just because he doesn't have a soul, doesn't mean he can't pretend to show feelings.

But, my only problem with Sam not having real, true feelings is that he seemed to have care enough to rescue Dean.

Even if he has no feelings it was an easy choice to rescue Dean, he knows that he loves his brother and he would obviously save him. He just can't feel anything at the moment.

Perhaps there's a different reason of why Sam came to save Dean. I bet it's part due to a more selfish reason as the same for why Sam wanted Dean to get turned.

Sam wanting Dean to get turned was definitely selfish, but in this instance he saved Dean because he knew again that that's what he would do if placed in that situation. Not out of selfishness.

[Anno_Domini]

no hes not stupid... but dopey yeah thats for sure, thats why im saying one line of clarification might make it click for some viewers.. i didnt think of this as a criticism or anything, it actually happened today lol..

Supernatural has been known to not really give out easy answers with situations, such as Lilith's storyline, mostly from "The Monster At The End Of This Book" with her trying to make a deal with Sam. When it comes to situations like that, Kripke had mentioned that he prefers the audience to create their own answers.

And then there are situations where nothing is even hinted, at all, like Ruby's knife. But, Supernatural is one in a few shows out there that purposely want the audience to think of the answers on their own and I doubt they will try to answer every question out there just because they think it's necessary *cough*LOST*cough*

Even if he has no feelings it was an easy choice to rescue Dean, he knows that he loves his brother and he would obviously save him. He just can't feel anything at the moment.


Sam wanting Dean to get turned was definitely selfish, but in this instance he saved Dean because he knew again that that's what he would do if placed in that situation. Not out of selfishness.

This one post shows how Sam's storyline has already messed up though. If Sam loves his brother enough, he wouldn't just watch him turn. If he is selfish enough, then I don't understand why he would care enough to save his brother. Unless, as I said before, Sam wants to use Dean in "experiments", like using him to getting into a vamp's nest. Or perhaps he used Dean to get the Djinn out in the open; I wonder sometimes, after watching SPN recently and Sam's actions, if he told the Djinn family Dean's whereabouts. Or let his whereabouts "slip" while getting attacked.

[xrayvision]

This one post shows how Sam's storyline has already messed up though. If Sam loves his brother enough, he wouldn't just watch him turn. If he is selfish enough, then I don't understand why he would care enough to save his brother. Unless, as I said before, Sam wants to use Dean in "experiments", like using him to getting into a vamp's nest. Or perhaps he used Dean to get the Djinn out in the open; I wonder sometimes, after watching SPN recently and Sam's actions, if he told the Djinn family Dean's whereabouts. Or let his whereabouts "slip" while getting attacked.

I don't think it's been messed up...yet. I think the explanation is that Sam without a soul sees Dean as a tool/device to achieve his objective. What is his objective? He's a hunter. All he cares about now is hunting. Right now, he's running on logic & past memories & experience. He knows Dean & himself are the 2 best hunters on Earth. He knows that having Dean alive can also prolong his own life. But he also at times treats Dean as a tool to accomplish his main objective---hunting. That's what he did in Live Free or Twihard. Dean's purpose shifted from being a good partner in his job to bait that could draw out the things he wanted to hunt. He must have known about the cure from Samuel & due to not having a soul he is now more reckless since he can no longer feel love for his brother, but still wants him around (which is why he was against killing vamp Dean in Live Free or TwiHard). So based on logic & not love, he, like a machine, took a calculated risk that Sam with a soul would never take.

For those who were fans of the 80's Knight Rider show, Sam without a soul is a lot like KARR--he's in it for self preservation (why he protects Dean), but would be willing to use Dean, Bobby & others to accomplish his means (like KARR did in KITT vs. KARR with that character John & his gf Mandy).

So going forward, they have to be very careful in depicting Sam & his motivations so as to not contradict themselves. I don't think they did it yet, but they could easily do so if they're not careful.

[xrayvision]

By the way, even though I still think Sam is using Dean as a means to prolong his life since Dean is such a great hunter, I also think that unknown to Sam, he at minimum has a degree of invulnerability in his current state of not having a soul. I laid out my case here:

http://www.kryptonsite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=149568

[Welling_is_pretty]

If his soul is still in hell, then by the time it gets out, it would likely have been turned into a demon. And having 2 Sams would be very different since in other media, demons are demons & souls don't turn into demons. In Supernatural we can end up with Sam's body fighting his soul-turned-demon.

I freely admit I had not thought of that, xray. That would be extremely original.