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Why is Lois considered pure but Clark isn't?

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  • #16
    What you guys say makes a lot of sense but the way it was explained in the epsiode it seemed like it had a lot more to do with doubt than it did with faith. If they would have said that the basis for the darkness was not having faith in anything than I would have agreed with what happened.

    Unfortunately, Kara said that it feeds on doubts and fears. I know that Lois has doubts and fears.

    I have no idea what Clark has faith in right now but before tonight's epsiode I was sure he had faith in himself.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by ginevrakent
      This episode was about faith. Those who have it and those who don't. Lois was said to be pure of heart because she has faith in something--heroes, particularly the Blur. Godfrey couldn't break her because she maintains her faith that the Blur will always be there for her.

      Kara has faith in something too--herself--and that's all she can really have faith in because she has nothing and no one else really in her entire life.

      After what happened in Doomsday, Clark lost faith in his own humanity. He lost faith in himself. For parts of last season and the beginning of this season, Clark did show faith in something: his fate. But as Carter Hall pointed out in Shield, Nietzsche believed "people who chased after some far off future dream were really running away from their true destiny." Throughout Supergirl, Clark is shown to doubt his ability to win over the people, or be there for them in the way that they need him to be. He's afraid of failure, and of falling off a high pedestal.

      So the question is: what does Clark Kent have faith in at present? Who or what does he believe in no matter what?

      Ahh, thanks Libby. I was reading through some other threads, b/c this is really starting to bother me. And I'm really starting to wonder about what they're doing to Clark. But then I started wondering...maybe it's not "darkness", but doubt. And your post cleared it up very well for me, so thanks!

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      • #18
        Has Lois ever had to be physically stopped from trying to murder someone that didn't provoke them with violence first? out of simply revenge? Umm no. Clark has though, not to mention that whole playing God with chloe when she was losing all of her memories and Clark thought he had the God given right to select which she kept, and which she loss forever. And then there was the whole finding Lois hooked up to the machine Tess made to peek inside her memories, and instead of taking Lois from the dangerous machine he decides to take a peek himself, and then erase all of them. It wouldn't matter if Lois went around punching disabled children, her loving a God complex having stalker like Clark makes her pure.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by uncaged
          I'm not really sure what the writers are trying to say, but I will say that Lois has never had to question whether or not she's wanted to kill before. All of the times she's gone over the top for something have been out of her desire to help someone she cared about and she acknowledged her flaws at the time. Lois acts to protect and shield herself and others from pain. I can't really argue that Clark doesn't do this too, but I do know that he's had to come face to face with some harsh realities and he's sometimes been in danger of crossing boundaries he shouldn't cross.
          Huh. This was a very good point that I hadn't thought of, Alicia. I'm not certain that TPTB are thinking that deeply about it, and other people's theories that they're just stalling sound plausible, too, at this point, but yeah, Clark's had to make tougher decisions than Lois has ever or will ever have to face by comparison, and he's gone down some dark roads that she hasn't had to tread as well, so I think your view has merit.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Lunarsun
            Has Lois ever had to be physically stopped from trying to murder someone that didn't provoke them with violence first? out of simply revenge? Umm no. Clark has though, not to mention that whole playing God with chloe when she was losing all of her memories and Clark thought he had the God given right to select which she kept, and which she loss forever. And then there was the whole finding Lois hooked up to the machine Tess made to peek inside her memories, and instead of taking Lois from the dangerous machine he decides to take a peek himself, and then erase all of them. It wouldn't matter if Lois went around punching disabled children, her loving a God complex having stalker like Clark makes her pure.
            Oh man you are blunt aren't you? This post has me rolling right now!

            Although, I do have to say that Clark did all those things with a pure heart. He did not do them with malicious intent. Of course it still makes him guilty of the act but his intentions were pure.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Kevin24
              What you guys say makes a lot of sense but the way it was explained in the epsiode it seemed like it had a lot more to do with doubt than it did with faith. If they would have said that the basis for the darkness was not having faith in anything than I would have agreed with what happened.
              To have doubts and fears implies that one lacks faith in something that will help one overcome those doubts and fears.

              I have no idea what Clark has faith in right now but before tonight's epsiode I was sure he had faith in himself.
              I don't believe Clark had faith in himself--not last year, and not this year so far either. In Idol, Clark had faith in his father's shield and throughout most of S9 he showed faith in his father's legacy. By Salvation, Clark was showing faith--not in himself--but in his destiny.
              Clark: I know my destiny and it’s here. I’ve seen it. Dr. Fate has seen it, too. And Jor-El has sent me on trials to prove it. I finally know who I am. And what I’m meant to do on Earth. I’m not leaving.
              Clark says he knows who he is because of what he's meant to be and because of what his father has instructed him to be. In Lazarus, Clark repeats this refrain, saying he knows his fate, he knows his destiny. He does not exhibit faith in himself, and that isn't entirely necessary either. He just needs to find faith in something, and it needs to be a faith that cannot be shaken.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Kevin24
                Oh man you are blunt aren't you? This post has me rolling right now!

                Although, I do have to say that Clark did all those things with a pure heart. He did not do them with malicious intent. Of course it still makes him guilty of the act but his intentions were pure.
                What exactly is pure about Clark peeking into Lois' pandora memories all the while keeping her on a machine that Tess was going to let fry her until she was brain dead after she saw what she wanted? Lois could have died there, and Clark didn't care, at all. Also what is pure about Clark getting overly physical with Tess who obviously wouldn't provoke him physically? What is pure about that? That honestly is worrying, and scary. I mean I'm literally worried Clark might beat up Lois on one of his little PMS days. Don't even get me started on the Lana stalking, his constant agressive tone with Lex, and Lionel.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Lunarsun
                  What exactly is pure about Clark peeking into Lois' pandora memories all the while keeping her on a machine that Tess was going to let fry her until she was brain dead after she saw what she wanted? Lois could have died there, and Clark didn't care, at all.
                  Okay, you've really got Pandora all wrong. Clark went to Summerholt to stop Tess from putting Lois through the procedure to retrieve Lois' lost memories of the future. He stormed into the lab to stop the procedure, but he was overcome by the kryptonite in the room and was accidentally linked into Lois' memories. Clark did care and he did try to stop Tess.

                  Also what is pure about Clark getting overly physical with Tess who obviously wouldn't provoke him physically? What is pure about that? That honestly is worrying, and scary. I mean I'm literally worried Clark might beat up Lois on one of his little PMS days. Don't even get me started on the Lana stalking, his constant agressive tone with Lex, and Lionel.
                  You can't be serious. Clark would never beat up Lois. Clark sometimes loses his temper with "villains" who threaten his loved ones. I agree that Clark needs to keep his anger in check, but even Superman struggles with wrath from time to time.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by ginevrakent
                    Okay, you've really got Pandora all wrong. Clark went to Summerholt to stop Tess from putting Lois through the procedure to retrieve Lois' lost memories of the future. He stormed into the lab to stop the procedure, but he was overcome by the kryptonite in the room and was accidentally linked into Lois' memories. Clark did care and he did try to stop Tess.



                    You can't be serious. Clark would never beat up Lois. Clark sometimes loses his temper with "villains" who threaten his loved ones. I agree that Clark needs to keep his anger in check, but even Superman struggles with wrath from time to time.
                    Clark wound up on the table next to Lois, and was inside of her head. Clark had no trouble waking up and simply being okay with her memories being erased. Lois is the one who didn't wake up right away, of course. And who knows? I mean he dangled Tess over the roof of a building just to get his way, when Lois wants questions and answered she doesn't have to resort to attempted murder like Clark...So I guess that sorta answers the question in this thread lol.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by ginevrakent
                      To have doubts and fears implies that one lacks faith in something that will help one overcome those doubts and fears.

                      I don't believe Clark had faith in himself--not last year, and not this year so far either. In Idol, Clark had faith in his father's shield and throughout most of S9 he showed faith in his father's legacy. By Salvation, Clark was showing faith--not in himself--but in his destiny.
                      Clark: I know my destiny and it’s here. I’ve seen it. Dr. Fate has seen it, too. And Jor-El has sent me on trials to prove it. I finally know who I am. And what I’m meant to do on Earth. I’m not leaving.
                      Clark says he knows who he is because of what he's meant to be and because of what his father has instructed him to be. In Lazarus, Clark repeats this refrain, saying he knows his fate, he knows his destiny. He does not exhibit faith in himself, and that isn't entirely necessary either. He just needs to find faith in something, and it needs to be a faith that cannot be shaken.
                      What am I getting from this is that the darkness is like a cult that feeds on insecurities and then turns those people into followers. Since Lois already has something she believes in (The blur) then the darkness cannot sneak its way into her heart.

                      However, Clark has insecurities and the darkness is going to pray on it until it converts him into a follower that he can use to dominate the world.

                      This is my understanding of it after you broke it down that way in your posts.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Lunarsun
                        Clark wound up on the table next to Lois, and was inside of her head. Clark had no trouble waking up and simply being okay with her memories being erased.
                        Clark was okay with Lois' memories being erased because they were literally killing her.

                        And who knows? I mean he dangled Tess over the roof of a building just to get his way, when Lois wants questions and answered she doesn't have to resort to attempted murder like Clark...So I guess that sorta answers the question in this thread lol.
                        Um, no.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by ginevrakent
                          Clark was okay with Lois' memories being erased because they were literally killing her.



                          Um, no.
                          So were Chloe's memories of Clark killing her when he decided that he was God and could pick which memories she kept, and which she loss...? Was Lana having any kind of privacy as a teenage girl killing her that Clark decided he, being God apparently had to stalk her, to save her life? Has Tess ever physically provoked Clark with her fist to earn any of the undeserved abuse she took?........I mean Clark's first 'desire' under Red-K last season was to go kill someone and attack chloe. rofl wtf? Clark has a MAJOR God complex.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Lunarsun
                            So were Chloe's memories of Clark killing her when he decided that he was God and could pick which memories she kept, and which she loss...? Was Lana having any kind of privacy as a teenage girl killing her that Clark decided he, being God apparently had to stalk her, to save her life? Has Tess ever physically provoked Clark with her fist to earn any of the undeserved abuse she took?........I mean Clark's first 'desire' under Red-K last season was to go kill someone and attack chloe. rofl wtf? Clark has a MAJOR God complex.
                            He blocked Chloe's memories so that she would have a happier life. Honestly, the way things are going for her it actually looked like the best course of action for her. She would have avoided everything that happened to her and I think even Jimmy would have survived? This happened in season 8 right?

                            Also to use Red K to try and discredit Clark is a bad move. He had no control over it and it doesn't really show Clark's true feelings either. I bet if I was on Red K and I found a girl attractive I would probably try to pick her up despite having a girlfriend. If I wasn't on it I'd just look at the girl and think shes cute then go on with my day.

                            What I'm trying to say is it makes Clark do things he wouldn't normally do or think. Also, I can't remember the precision reason why Clark did that to Tess but I think it was to save someone.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Kevin24
                              What am I getting from this is that the darkness is like a cult that feeds on insecurities and then turns those people into followers. Since Lois already has something she believes in (The blur) then the darkness cannot sneak its way into her heart.

                              However, Clark has insecurities and the darkness is going to pray on it until it converts him into a follower that he can use to dominate the world.

                              This is my understanding of it after you broke it down that way in your posts.
                              The way you explained this works for me. I like your conception of "followers," because that fits with my understanding of Darkseid's modus operandi from the mythos. I'm not sure how close this interpretation is to what TPTB are actually doing, but it's what makes sense to me right now.

                              I think Clark needs to find something outside of himself to believe in, and right now my best guess is that he needs to believe in people. He needs to believe that if he fails them, he can win them back. He needs to believe in his ability to protect them as well. Symbolic of this struggle is Clark's own relationship with Lois. It is because he fears he won't always be there for her, that he doesn't tell her his secret. Expanding this to the broader story, Clark fears telling the world his secret by stepping out of the shadows.

                              In addition, all of the heroes should follow Lois' advice and accept her help. Lois is right that going public doesn't work if you don't have an alter ego to protect those whom you are closest to. Oliver's disguise is his mask as Green Arrow while Clark and Kara's are of the glasses wearing mild-mannered citizen of Metropolis. In Supergirl, Kara starts out with no disguise and realizes she needs one to fight the darkness. Oliver is now embarking on a life without the cover of his Green Arrow mask, and the consequences may not be pretty. Not only do these heroes have to rely on secret identities, they also need to rely on someone like Lois.

                              To go back to last week's episode, and examining what Lois did in Supergirl this week, it's clear that the heroes need to let Lois be their shield. Through her work as a journalist, she will be the one who helps to protect the heroes from the public's wavering faith. It's as Dr. Fate said in Absolute Justice: Legends in which Dr. Fate predicted the Silver Age of heroism Clark would initiate, but one for which Lois was the key (she's the one he will need, and he is the one she will need).

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                              • #30
                                simple..because Clark's the scrapegoat for this show.

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