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So with the mention of Powergirl, I got to wondering... which DC version of Kara is this?
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SV Kara is a combo of different Kara: Silver Age, Earth 2 Power Girl/Kara Zor-L, Matrix/Earth Angel, Linda Lee Danvers, Modern Day Kara Zor-el, DCAU Kara-In Ze, and movie Supergirl combined with a few specal traits -
Unless Kal is Kal-L, no. It was just a throw away reference and one I'd rather they kept away. No need to draw attention to that monstrosity.Comment
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She's written as if her 'attributes' make her feminist. Women come in all shapes and sizes, some are shy and some are outgoing. I don't appreciate being told that a *****y attitude and a barely there costume is what a liberated woman is. Supergirl is a feminist character, always has been. This is the girl that was told to stay undercover in an orphanage by the most powerful man in the world and decided to fly out the window and do some covert super-heroing. That to me is 'screw you patriarchy' in practise. She didn't need to be confrontational about it, she took into account why he wanted her undercover but she did her own thing. This was in 1959, Power girl appeared in the 70's written to be a liberated woman and became nothing but a fanboy fantasy.(all super-heroines are but PG has her special brand of fetish fans, just google)
I'm trying to find it, but there is a issue where a character makes her an S Shield to cover her boob window as a nice gesture. She goes off on one about how she's her own person and doesn't need a label to tie her to a man. Then she rips it up in front of him. A nice idea but no need to get crappy about it. In a wild double standard she still calls herself Kara Zor-L, taking her fathers name!
When she's not being harsh or defiling feminism she's boobs in a costume. The brand of her monstrosity differs by writer but its always something. In her latest series she's caught naked, this woman has super-speed how can she not dress in time?Comment
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Power Girl ain't coming for Smallville, but if she did, I bet they'd get atleast some decent humor about her. But I agree, they wouldn't write her like in your post (I mean the positive things)She's written as if her 'attributes' make her feminist. Women come in all shapes and sizes, some are shy and some are outgoing. I don't appreciate being told that a *****y attitude and a barely there costume is what a liberated woman is. Supergirl is a feminist character, always has been. This is the girl that was told to stay undercover in an orphanage by the most powerful man in the world and decided to fly out the window and do some covert super-heroing. That to me is 'screw you patriarchy' in practise. She didn't need to be confrontational about it, she took into account why he wanted her undercover but she did her own thing. This was in 1959, Power girl appeared in the 70's written to be a liberated woman and became nothing but a fanboy fantasy.(all super-heroines are but PG has her special brand of fetish fans, just google)
I'm trying to find it, but there is a issue where a character makes her an S Shield to cover her boob window as a nice gesture. She goes off on one about how she's her own person and doesn't need a label to tie her to a man. Then she rips it up in front of him. A nice idea but no need to get crappy about it. In a wild double standard she still calls herself Kara Zor-L, taking her fathers name!
When she's not being harsh or defiling feminism she's boobs in a costume. The brand of her monstrosity differs by writer but its always something. In her latest series she's caught naked, this woman has super-speed how can she not dress in time?
It didn't take long for Kara to be seen in just a red bikini for a dumb reason in S7. Not that Im complaining about eye candy but I see your point.Comment
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No offense, but you're actually contradicting yourself. You start off saying that women come in all shapes and sizes. And then you give PG a hard time, for being a curvy woman, with breasts (personally, I would have a bigger problem, if she'd look like Victoria Beckham). Breasts are mainly composed of body fat. That's why obese men, tends to have breasts.She's written as if her 'attributes' make her feminist. Women come in all shapes and sizes, some are shy and some are outgoing. I don't appreciate being told that a *****y attitude and a barely there costume is what a liberated woman is. Supergirl is a feminist character, always has been. This is the girl that was told to stay undercover in an orphanage by the most powerful man in the world and decided to fly out the window and do some covert super-heroing. That to me is 'screw you patriarchy' in practise. She didn't need to be confrontational about it, she took into account why he wanted her undercover but she did her own thing. This was in 1959, Power girl appeared in the 70's written to be a liberated woman and became nothing but a fanboy fantasy.(all super-heroines are but PG has her special brand of fetish fans, just google)
I'm trying to find it, but there is a issue where a character makes her an S Shield to cover her boob window as a nice gesture. She goes off on one about how she's her own person and doesn't need a label to tie her to a man. Then she rips it up in front of him. A nice idea but no need to get crappy about it. In a wild double standard she still calls herself Kara Zor-L, taking her fathers name!
When she's not being harsh or defiling feminism she's boobs in a costume. The brand of her monstrosity differs by writer but its always something. In her latest series she's caught naked, this woman has super-speed how can she not dress in time?
On to more important subjects... She's not an angry feminist, caricature. She's written as a character, with anger management issues & lacking social skills (neither one is out of character, given her upbringing alone, in a spaceship. And the fact, that everything in her life keeps getting taken from her. She once even said, that she feels like her life's the pounch line, in some cosmic joke), that happens to be a woman. She's not the embodiment, of anyone's image of women. Unlike most female characters, who are written as female characters (hence, the writer(s) uses their image, of what a woman is/supposed to be). Or they try and write them as role-models. The key, to writing good female characters, is to write them as characters who happens to be women (Marc Andreyko used this formula on his Manhunter series). People tend to forget that. And the characters should have relatable or sympathatic problems, preferably to both genders (both genders does have over 90%, of the same daily problems. Yes, there are some problems, that are gender specific. Being objectified is one of them. And that is something, that Power Girl has to put up with, in the comics. People do make sexualized remarks, to her).
And as far, as her current series goes. There's a lot of us, that aren't crazy about the original creative team's run (thank heavens, Judd Winick came in and fixed things... Now there's something, you don't hear every day). The writers were more interested in doing a humor book, then expanding the character's mythology (giving her an expanded social life, outside of the hero community. Give her, her own rogues gallery of A-list villains) and doing tie-ins with for instance New Krypton (which would've allowed for them, to explore the diffrences, between the Earth-Two Krypton & the New Earth Krypton, in culture and biological evolution). And the artist's drawings were too cartoon-y (and she seemed to have trouble, keeping up, with a monthly title). I did have a problem, with the incident, you mention. Though, you left out a few points. Power Girl had been receiving photos, showing her changing into her costume (with the words, "I know who you are", written on it), from a kid a couple of times. So, when she came out of a shower (wearing a towl, mind you), new photos came through the door. And by pure instinct, she ran after her blackmailer. And when she grabbed him, the towl fell off her. I thought that scene was stupid, as she could've easily gotten dressed, before running after him (though, at the same time, how could she know, that her blackmailer didn't have super speed himself? Meaning, he could've been long gone, before she got dressed) or at least grabbed the towl at super speed (before either the blackmailing kid or her neighbour had a chance to react) and covered herself with it, again... Thank heavens, the Gray, Palmiotti & Conner reign of terror is over.
PS: The comic you mentioned, with the suggested symbol. Is ironically the same issue (All-Star Comics #64, that they removed the chest window, the first time (meaning, that she only had it, for her first 5 appearances (+ the cover of the before mentioned issue, for some reason), in the 70's. And didn't reappear, until Bart Sears started drawing her (at which point, she also got large breasts), in the 90's.
And as far as her having her father's name. She didn't take it, it was given to her at birth. And most people just refer to her simply as "Karen" and sometimes as "Kara", anyway. Not to mention, I think her father's name wasn't even mentioned, until Showcase #97 (In which, her original origin was fully disclosed for her first time. Published two years, after her introduction). I do wish, DC would've gone with Gerry Conway's original pitch, when he created the charcter (i.e. have her be the daughter of the E-2 Supes & Lois Lane. But, they shot him down and said "just make her, his cousin"). Or that Paul Levitz (the JSA writer at the time and the guy, that gave PG her origin story, in Showcase #97-99) had been a little more creative and made her into the daughter of Nim-L, instead of Zor-L (thus sparing us, the constant mixing up of Kara Zor-L & Kara Zor-El). As she would've then been Kara Nim-L Or Kara Kal-L (if she'd had a Kryptonian name, at all).Comment
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I'll try and make a few points for your big post
- Its not a contradiction. Just because a woman has curves doesn't mean they have to be exploited. Also, just because she looks a certain way (taller and fuller) doesn't make her any 'more' of a woman than someone who is smaller and staighter. I give PG a hard time for being 'boobs in a costume' because some writers can't see beyond her body to the woman within or even worse create a personality around her body. (like the cliche of a jolly fat person). If they don't write a character, then I can say she isn't one. Then the natural inclination is for me to say, take away the boob window and take away the focus. If certain people think that takes away the sex appeal they are fans PG doesn't need. What is even worse is when its clear in the writing that writers are leering by proxy. An example of this is when Batman and Superman swap bodies with Huntress and PG only for Batman to 'notice' PG's low bustline. Its so un-Batman.
- I can see in-story reasons for it but the fact remains PG was made to be what second wave feminists considered a powerful woman in contrast to the Supergirl character who was branded not good enough for a changing female image. PG is a feminist stereotype because she represents the ideology that bred the stereotype but she wasn't made to be one. A continued perception of her as what 'feminism' is has become a problem.
-PG has had few decent costumes, my favourite is the scooped neckline rather than the window. Some have gone too far and covered her up completely.
-She doesn't need to continue with Zor-L name, she has to either lose it or come up with a better reason to shun the family symbol. If you are in for a penny, be in for a pound. I do advocate the fact that characters like SG, PG, Batgirl, Mary Marvel not be defined by their male versions. These are their own women and their own characters, the symbols are decoration. Obviously 'PG' feels differently to me and I want consistancy.
- I think Palmiotti and Connor are very talented but I've had enough of them writing lazy 'snowglobe' jokes. If you are writing a comedic title then branch out. Their Wednesday Comics strip was hilarious but then again leering at what looked like a 15 year old Supergirl is not on. They can do it but all to often take the easy way out leading to the character getting cheapened.Comment
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http://www.superherotimes.com/news/i...01_400x600.jpg I think this image summarises your thoughts about the two characters.
Seriously though, was it Geoff Johns who wrote a reason for PG's window? Like she was supposed to leave it open until she'd think of a symbol for it...but she never came up with a symbol so now it's like that??
Nothing against blondes but that reasoning sounded too much like a blond-joke for me.Comment
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Yes. And when they brought it back, in the 90's they gave the reason, that it's supposed to show what she is: Strong, female and healthy (and if men wanted to disgrace themselves by staring, that's their problem). Neither one actually works, especially as she's often showed uncomfortable, with people staring at her breasts. The cleavage is pointless really, just like that dumb soulder armor, that Amanda Conner forced on her. But, it's something that many have come to view as "iconic" (in lack of a better term), like it's something distinguishing for this one character. Of course, most of those guys, aren't actually familiar with the character. As like I pointed out, in my previous post, they removed it after her fifth appearance (which was in 1976). Then they went through the rest of the 70's, the entire 80's and through most of the 90's (minus Kingdom Come (which isn't DC canon) & that blue-white suit, she wore, when she was with the Justice League Europe (though, she also wore a white-golden costume, which didn't feature it), which wasn't a very long-lived costume) and up to 2002 (when she re-joined the JSA. Which was co-written by Geoff Johns, who's probably ripped off Kingdom Come, more then any other DC writer. Meaning the choice, to restore it, is really just an idea, they stole from Kingdom Come).
So, saying that the chest window's iconic for PG, is really like saying that a star-spangled skirt, is iconic for Wonder Woman (despite the fact, that she dropped it and has been wearing shorts for over 50 years). PG only had a chest window, for her first five appearances, for a brief period in the 90's (Kingdom Come doesn't count, as it was an Elseworlds story and the PG, in that story was called "Power Woman") & the past eight years.Comment
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