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Death's Ego?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by InactiveUserID
    Well, who knows. And that's the fun part, the not knowing. Chicken and egg all over again."
    Ugh. Not for me. I HATE not knowing things.

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    • #17
      Well, if you look at Death as some kind of the Alpha-Reaper, it makes kind of sense.
      Reapers donīt kill humans, they just take theyr soul after the died and transfer them to the other side.
      So if god could die in some sort (just watch Dogma where he/she had to die to be able to return to heaven) it would make sense that death would then be able to take his soul or in other words reap him.

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      • #18
        I see it, while re-watching the episode and listening to Death's speech, God and Death are the oldest living things around. Older than the Pagan Gods, BUT people worshipped all of the Pagan Gods longer than people actually worshipped God Himself(seeing as how Jesus only appeared so many hundreds of years after Earth was created).

        And also, did anyone wonder if Death was God when the scythe burned red hot in Dean's hand? I thought of that, but then thought of God as the ruler of Heaven, creator of Earth, and Hell along with it and Death is meant to be the true ruler of Hell(much like a Zeus/Hades thing), but Lucifer put his "leash" around Death when he fell from grace and become the ruler of demons and Hell.

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        • #19
          tasty

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Call_Me_Ishmael
            but Lucifer put his "leash" around Death when he fell from grace and become the ruler of demons and Hell.
            Well, I'm not sure how much of a ruler Lucifer was in hell in the Supernatural universe. He was locked up behind all those seals. He was in a part of hell where I don't think he had influence on the demons. I always believed Azazel's plan was something he came up with on his own based on his loyalty to Lucifer. But then again, if that's true how did he create Lilith, Azazel and the rest? I can understand after he got started that other demons like Alistair tortured souls until they too transformed into demons. But how did Lucifer start creating demons if he was behind all those seals? Was Lilith a human who was so bedazzled by Lucifer's evil ways that she entered hell as a demon who needed nothing else to transform her? Because it doesn't make sense that Lucifer physically created her and she escaped the seals but he didn't.

            I think Azazel did communicate with Lucifer in Lucifer Rising when he was in the priest played by Rob Labelle.

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            • #21
              Seems to me in this show God may very well be no different than the other pagan gods. Maybe more powerful, but not necessarily the creator of all life, and not necessarily older than them. Perhaps he's simply the most currently favored deity and therefore his reality is the one the world is at present shaped after......... I dono. lots of vagueness when it comes to God in SPN

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              • #22
                Well Vilem, he is definitely far more powerful than the pagan gods, since his creations (angels) are so much more powerful than them.

                My theory is that God in the Kripke universe in the 4th most powerful being. Behind the actual first cause, entropy, and order.

                Kind of starting to feel like a comic book, if you ever read any DC or Marvel and read into the mythology of those beings and hierarchy involved... it feels similar.

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                • #23
                  What do you mean by First Cause, Entropy and Order? Do u mean free will?

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                  • #24
                    I'm going to regret asking, but who are the other powerful beings above God(besides one of them who you think is Death)?

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by xrayvision
                      Well, I'm not sure how much of a ruler Lucifer was in hell in the Supernatural universe. He was locked up behind all those seals. He was in a part of hell where I don't think he had influence on the demons. I always believed Azazel's plan was something he came up with on his own based on his loyalty to Lucifer. But then again, if that's true how did he create Lilith, Azazel and the rest? I can understand after he got started that other demons like Alistair tortured souls until they too transformed into demons. But how did Lucifer start creating demons if he was behind all those seals? Was Lilith a human who was so bedazzled by Lucifer's evil ways that she entered hell as a demon who needed nothing else to transform her? Because it doesn't make sense that Lucifer physically created her and she escaped the seals but he didn't.

                      I think Azazel did communicate with Lucifer in Lucifer Rising when he was in the priest played by Rob Labelle.
                      He did communicate with Yellow Eyes (who was in a priest's body), and from there Yellow Eyes had his plan to do.

                      As to how he started...I believe one of the key things he was locked up for was Lilith. He ruined one of god's creations out of jealousy. He was locked up and Lilith was burried deep in hell. As others sinned they were sent to Hell where Lilith, and each soul-turned-demon, would manipulate other souls into demons. Alistair and Yellow eyes were almong the first to turn, and were the oldest/most powerful.


                      As to God and Death....I look at it this way.

                      *BANG*

                      (That is the Big Bang)

                      The universe is created. Among all the molcules floating around, 2 entities/energies/whatever you want to refer to them as, are created: God and Death, Life and no life, the start and the end.

                      Death, IMO, is not Evil, and not the ruler of hell. His job is to simply provide an Ending to whatever God starts.

                      God creates the stars, planets, life, etc etc etc.

                      Death makes sure that whatever God creates will have some way of coming to an end.

                      At the end of time, it will once again be just the two of them, and he will reap God, fulfilling his purpose of bringing an end to things, and from that, the next bang will happen and it will all start over again.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Divine Skylord
                        In regards to the Pagan Gods, I think that they meant that they were worshiped first. Considering that in SPN, that the Judeo-Christian Heaven and Hell is were ALL souls go when they die, I feel that it's pretty safe to assume that the Judeo-Christian God is the 'supreme' god.

                        This is why I was confused as to whether anything could kill THE Creator.

                        Most religions have an afterlife for the saved and the damned the multi-dimensional nature of Heaven suggests Hell is the same way, people of different religions would experience their own versions of each, the reason it is called Heaven and Hell in the show is because the main characters have christian beliefs, remember when Sam told Dean how Christmas started as a pagan thing, Dean very defiantly said "Christmas is Jesus's birthday" This is America most people will tell you to "go to hell" or say "heaven help us" not "I hope you come back as a roach" or "Nirvana help us" Samhain is a not a christian thing it is totally pagan and he had a powerful postion in hell. Same with cupid, Cherubs are christian, but the name Cupid would be considered pagan being the name of a Roman god and these beings have a place in Heaven.

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                        • #27
                          OK my answer to this is that The Creator (and I use that label intentionally) created absolutely everything. Including Death. Death was in fact not created until the first living thing died, be that a star, planet, virus, angel or animal. I will go with star. The Creator then, in a sense, created himself, and became God. God was the same entity as the creator, but when He changed Himself to become mortal (by that I mean with the ability to die, albeit eons later) he became something closer to what we perceive as God. Way way further down the line, God was recognised and worshipped as the Judeo-Christian God when he created heaven and ultimately Earth.

                          So God did create Death, and yet this was before he became God, so you could say Death is older. God is no longer the immortal Creator, but because the immortal creator is not still walkiing around God is still top of the pile, with all the same abilities and so forth. As to those who feel insulted that Death claims to be able to reap God, remember that is only possible because God made it possible. After all, if you never die then you never really live. So I can see why God may turn himself into an entity that has an end, and remember that this will not happen until so many millions of years have passed that the timescale is impossible to conceive.

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                          • #28
                            Wow I guess no-one is touching that one with a 10 foot pole...

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                            • #29
                              Some of the posts have been on the same page that I've been thinking on. The pagon gods said they where worshiped until god came around. This is just some random thing I thought up, but what if this god that they keep mentioning is not THE GOD? Just one that's sort of in charge. The God actually made everything but kind of just let things happen and let whoever become the most powerful for a while..I think this because if it where actually God that Death was talking about he was either locked up to long and doesn't have any idea to what he is saying, lied, or will reap god, but only because he isn't the real God and Death doesn't know this...I don't know, just a thought.

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