Do you remember when Tess did this?

[borednow]

I don't have a problem with Clark/Superman being aggressive now and then. But they are taking a bit too far with Tess: he is doing it too often (almost every time they cross paths) and it feels like he is incapable of (or worse, that he does not feel like) getting any information from her without using violence. That does not feel right to me.

Thank you!

[LoisReincarnate]

^^Great post. I completely agree with it.



Ashley that is precisely what I think will end up happening, in the end. I definitely agree with you on the Pandora via a new route too. It bothered me that Oliver, of all people did that, however, as you said, there was most likely a point to it. Especially since it was done so obviously,so heavy handedly that I have to wonder if it will have a pointed ramification for the future events that are lining up right now.

Thank you, Jenn. I agree that the intentions of the scene between Oliver and Tess was very obvious, especially when he walks away from Tess and over to Chloe. I found all of the chess strategy symbolism very poignant as well because Clark, Oliver, Chloe, and Tess all have insight into the alternate timeline yet have all (Clark has done a far better job than the others IMHO though) strategized in a way that makes it apparent they didn't truly contemplate the possible repercussions of their actions. It seems they all would be horrible chess players lol.

[KryptoB-ron]

But I sincerely doubt this will be the last of her, and I certainly think that she'll come back guns-a blazing.

Of course. If spoilers and Checkmate are any indication we're going to be seeing a lot more of Tess than earlier this season.

I think she might though, since even while he was choke-holding her, she was thanking him for revealing himself. You could tell she still feared him in AJ, but I think she would have hoped that he would trust her enough to align with her. Odd line of thinking, but that's Tess, an enigma. She also touted him as a savior in Persuasion, although, I have to wonder what her actual feelings toward him are now after his actions toward her in that episode. Who knows if he apologized for that one or not.

All I know is they've set her up as this horrible, evil, villainous woman, but she's been portrayed so duplicitious, so dubiously, it's hard not to also empathize with her. Had Oliver's actions or even Clark's happened last year, it might have made more sense to me. Cus then I think it would have knocked some sense into Tess.

I think another rather questionable thing for me is that he constantly says he can't believe any word she says. He's been rather trusting of every other character and has blindly believed certain characters even this season. From what I remember Tess has actually been incredibly honest with him. She may not tell him everything but she hasn't lied to him. He's accused her several times of lying but later found out she was telling the truth such as when she said she never revealled the truth about Clark or the kandorians. I find it odd he hasn't even acknowledged that. That's another reason why I can see hesitation for her to go to Clark when he told her this episode he doesn't believe what she says.

Before I begin, let me clarify that I don't love Tess or advocate anything she has done. I do, however, find fault with your logic. You are referencing Tess' loyalty to Zod in Pandora as why Clark, Oliver, and/or Chloe should shun Tess, but did you ever think that the reason that Tess aligns with Zod is because she has no one else left to turn to?

From what the producers have said and what has been implied onscreen it seems that several things that transpired in Pandora are being set up to happen again in the finale. What I infer from that is that a sort of paradox is occurring where everyone is repeating a lot of the same mistakes of the alternate universe unknowingly in the attempt to prevent that alternate universe from coming to fruition. I have a great feeling that his rejection of Tess is one of those mistakes.

Oliver told her to never go near him or his friends again and Waller is out to kill Tess because of her betrayal of Checkmate. Who is left for a frightened Tess to seek protection from? Zod. So even if you don't agree from an ethical perspective that Oliver should have shown Tess some sort of empathy, especially since he had to seek forgiveness from Clark literally episodes prior, can you at least appreciate that he was careless and uninsightful in his rejection of Tess?

I agree. Another thing to make note of is I'm pretty positive Clark never even saw Tess in the alternate future. I also don't think Zod would even protect her since he says that she's on Clark's side not his. It also seems that the only reason he's allowing her to live is because she knows his weakness and he doesnt.

[hellokitty]

^^^Absolutely agree Ashley. In fact, I'm willing to bet it will all come to a head in [SPOILER]Sacrifice,[/SPOILER] which, if I'm not mistaken is a chess move. Great call on the chess play hints in the episode. I missed that, and someone else pointed out how the Chloe rescue scene was made to not only look like a comic scan, but also like a chess game with all the players on the board. Interesting. This season certainly has been about strategy with regard to the antagonists.

----- Added 2 Minutes later -----

I agree. Another thing to make note of is I'm pretty positive Clark never even saw Tess in the alternate future. I also don't think Zod would even protect her since he says that she's on Clark's side not his. It also seems that the only reason he's allowing her to live is because she knows his weakness and he doesnt.

She's certainly being set up as a wild card, that's for sure. She has her hand in a LOT of pots right now, and any one of them could be fatal.

[borednow]

ITA.

I posted this in another thread:



When I say forgive, I don't mean that Oliver or Clark shouldn't hold them accountable for what they have done or shouldn't be weary of her. I think that is what most fans who hate Clark's consistent forgiveness of others have an issue with, because that is what I do as well. I do, however, think that Oliver and Clark, as heroes, should protect her, as well as anyone, despite her previous transgressions if she is in need of it.

Agreed that's what makes you a hero! It's not forgetting what has happened in the past, which was to me Clark's problems before with some people, *cough*Lana*cough*, but it's not letting the past stop you from protecting them when they need help, treating them better then they have treated others while still holding them accountable for their actions. It's a fine line, that's why it's not easy being a hero, it's the difference between being a doormat and a vigilantly... as plato would say it is the virtue that lies between.

[LoisReincarnate]

Agreed that's what makes you a hero! It's not forgetting what has happened in the past, which was to me Clark's problems before with some people, *cough*Lana*cough*, but it's not letting the past stop you from protecting them when they need help, treating them better then they have treated others while still holding them accountable for their actions. It's a fine line, that's why it's not easy being a hero, it's the difference between being a doormat and a vigilantly... as plato would say it is the virtue that lies between.

I'm really hoping that is one of the lessons Clark is going to take away from this season. If not, all of the major themes of this season (life isn't black and white, but shades of gray, forgiveness, trust, choosing sides) will all have been for nought.

[KryptoB-ron]

I'm really hoping that is one of the lessons Clark is going to take away from this season. If not, all of the major themes of this season (life isn't black and white, but shades of gray, forgiveness, trust, choosing sides) will all have been for nought.

Agreed I just hope that he learns a lesson more like how he did in Echo. I can't believe the amount of hate Echo gets especially from Clark fans. It was basically him in the lime light the entire time and he learned a lesson without being guilt tripped, making a big mistake or anything. He also came across as being very inteligent and emotional towards helping with Oliver.

[LoisReincarnate]

Agreed I just hope that he learns a lesson more like how he did in Echo. I can't believe the amount of hate Echo gets especially from Clark fans. It was basically him in the lime light the entire time and he learned a lesson without being guilt tripped, making a big mistake or anything. He also came across as being very inteligent and emotional towards helping with Oliver.

IA. Clark showed growth in both emotional and interpersonal intelligence in Echo. He learned that it is vital, as a hero as well as a friend, to be aware and acknowledge a person's inner motives, and not just his or her actions. It actually plays perfectly into the rest of the season in the sense that almost every character is practicing teleological ethics (that the ends justifies the means despite the motive), while Clark follows a deontologic ethical code (that despite the consequences, the motive is what is crucial). Not only that, Clark seems to be one of the only characters who even seems to try to anticipate how others will react to his actions, which plays into the whole strategy theme of the season.

[Dyanara]

First let me say that I always had a slight problem with Clark "sending" Lois back tithe past to change te future. I am of the belief that if you try to change the past the future will just get worse.
As for Tess after what Oliver did it would make sense for her to turn to Zod. But I don't know if her statements to Clark about Zod in Persuassion add up to her turning to him.

[dorsydoll]

I am so sick and tired of people who just refuse to actual listen to the argument. No1 is kissing Tess' a** and saying she is a good person. She is on theh same level as Chloe and Oliver and she doesnt deserve the treatment she is getting from Clark who is supposed to be above such BS. But apparently he's not, he's just as low as Lex, Tess, and Oliver. Thanks for informing me that this is the Godfather version of superman.

^^^ This

----- Added 1 Minutes later -----

Tess has sure pulled the wool over your eyes!!!

I'm happy you think my opinion means I'm blinded. I'm sure u can see my eyes so you know I'm blind

[borednow]

I'm really hoping that is one of the lessons Clark is going to take away from this season. If not, all of the major themes of this season (life isn't black and white, but shades of gray, forgiveness, trust, choosing sides) will all have been for nought.

I would have hoped he would have taken it away from what happened with Lionel... *sigh*

[newtonh20]

I agree. Tess is a villain, thus when Clark interacts with her he treats her as such. She shouldn't get special treatment just because shes a girl. And some of you may say that Tess isn't really a Villain, she just does bad things with good intentions. Well so did Lex, and I'm sure most of you consider him to be a bad guy. And as I recall Clark used to use force on Lex ,and slam him into walls as well.

And as Batman would say:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFb2NExVIWU

LMFAO!!! Great comment! Perfect timing!