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The absence of Ellen & Jo

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  • #16
    I don't think Jo killed herself at all. And, really, if you look at it, she didn't really martyr herself, either. It's not like she was a perfectly healthy girl sitting on the ground going, "You guys go on! I'll hold down the fort!"

    She was mortally wounded by a hellhound. I'm sure she'd have loved to get some medical attention to live, but they were trapped in a building and there was just no way that was going to happen. They tried to help her, but there was just nothing they could do. They'd have had to have gotten her to a hospital fairly quickly after she was pretty much eviscerated, and they were trapped.

    By the time she came up with her plan, I think the door was pretty much closed on her dying of her injuries. Maybe there would have been a slight chance of her surviving, if they managed to make it to the hospital right then. But they were still trapped and it wasn't happening. And at that point, even if they COULD have gotten out, I don't think she could be moved any longer.

    In no way was what Jo did suicide, IMO. As evidenced by the fact that she did actually die before she could set off the bomb anyway. It wasn't even martyrdom on her part, really. Maybe she would have stayed behind to do what she did if she had a choice to go or stay, but the fact of the matter is that there simply wasn't going to be any way she was going to have a choice.

    Now, what Ellen did...I suppose it's up to individual theology to determine if that's worthy of going to hell or not. I would hope not, but that's my personal belief system.

    When I watched the episode, I wondered if it was perhaps significant that Ash couldn't find them/didn't know they were there, or if it was an issue of not being able to get the actors for whatever reason. At least for John. As to Ellen/Jo, while Ash seems pretty tuned in to CRZY Angel Network, I doubt he gets a popup message every time someone new comes to heaven. He said he knew that Sam & Dean were in heaven because he heard the angels talking about it. If no such conversation were had about Ellen & Jo, he just might have missed it.

    I mean, think about the number of people who die every day. And even if the angels did talk about the death of Ellen & Jo, maybe Ash was in another person's slice of blue heaven when they passed over.

    It's possible they had Ash simply not know about Ellen & Jo's death as a purposeful action on the show's part. IMO, their death was very heart-wrenching. (I never even liked Jo, and my heart broke when she died.) I got kinda worked up just explaining to my mom who they were and how they died when she was watching the episode with me. It's possible they thought that moment would be somehow lessened if you had the actors show up happy in heaven just a few episodes later. Perhaps they just wanted to keep the strength of that death scene of theirs by not having them show up quite so soon after.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Jade4813
      In no way was what Jo did suicide, IMO.
      I'm not saying that Jo committed suicide, I'm saying that it is possible that no matter what would have happened to your soul if you die in any other way if you are killed by a hell hound then you go to hell, because that is their purpose. Having said that, I think on reflection that would only happen if it outright kills you (like Dean) rather than tearing you up so you die of your injuries 5 minutes later.

      Originally posted by Jade4813
      He said he knew that Sam & Dean were in heaven because he heard the angels talking about it. If no such conversation were had about Ellen & Jo, he just might have missed it.
      Good point. Ash said there were 100 billion heavens, and I think that was probably a very low estimate, given how many "good" people have died since creation. Even if it is accurate, then if Ash spent all day everyday (24hrs a day) searching heavens, and if he spent 20 minutes in each one, then that is still going to take 3,815,629 YEARS. And that assumes not a single soul arrives in heaven in the mean time. Which is obviously not going to be the case.

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