View Poll Results: Lois is being regressed and rewritten into a traditionally feminine woman.

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  • Strongly disagree.

    131 56.71%
  • Disagree.

    37 16.02%
  • Somewhat disagree.

    11 4.76%
  • Undecided.

    10 4.33%
  • Somewhat agree.

    14 6.06%
  • Agree.

    8 3.46%
  • Strongly agree.

    20 8.66%
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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by ginevrakent View Post
    I view Lois standing on Clark's shoulders at the start of the episode as communicating the exact opposite actually. Clark was literally supporting Lois in her work.
    Yes, that could be another metaphor being presented through that scene. And I'm sure I could easily see a third metaphor about Lois having the most power in the relationship and literally climbing on top of Clark and even digging her heels into his shoulders.

    It's interesting how this scene can open itself up to various interpretations.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terrific_T View Post
    Lois, however, can only handle a personal life or a job. Not both. That's pretty unfair, and it does make Clark look better than Lois.
    I don't think the scene was about showing that Lois can't handle both, it was about showing that Lois didn't want to handle both, which IMO was confirmed when she said this:

    "I guess it's easier to complain about Valentine's Day than to give it a shot."

    Lois is still adjusting to couplehood and she's still scared of embracing it. Instead she decided to dive into work.

    That's how I saw the whole thing.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Supsfan View Post
    I think it goes back to my point of the producers having a soap opera mentality and all the plots somehow have to revolve around romantic relationships. There is an easy way to avoid the issue of secrets, and that basically is put Lois and Clark in plotlines where secrets isn't an issue or has no reason to be brought up.
    Oh, I completely agree with that. It was the same issue last week where we were all asking why put Lois in a position to ask Clark "you're an honest guy and you'd never lie to me, right?" only to have Clark basically lie to Lois.

    It made no sense but yes that moment was very "soap opera-ish".

  4. #19
    Site Groupie morrigan01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ella View Post
    But your simplifying the issue, IMO.
    Well, that's because I honestly think it is a simple issue. I've seen arguments like this too done many times with too many fictional female characters that I've honestly, I think, become desensitized to it. From Kira Nerys in DS9, Kathryn Janeway and B'Elanna Torres in ST: Voyager, to Dana Scully on the X-Files to freakin' Hermione Granger in the Harry Potter series. Some episode or something airs that shows said strong female character being vulnerable more than we've ever seen them, and then a discussion starts up that the character is being regressed and made "traditional."

    And, frankly, it's an argument that's never made about men - that their being feminized - if we get an episode where they are overly vulnerable.

    Bristas is stating that the level and degree of showing Lois exposed, weak, and fragile has been extremely unbalanced not just when compared to Clark but when compared to how Lois has normally been from season to season.

    Being in a relationship does change a person, but this much?
    Well, considering that Clark and Lois are going to be the loves of each others lives, I honestly would hope it would change them - both. And I think it is.

    And I don't think Lois has changed that overly much. She's been skittish about her relationship with Clark, but the character has a romantic history that we've seen over the years on the show that would make her skittishness understandable. Especially if, as she says, she actually doesn't want to ruin what's going on between her and Clark because, in her own words "he's the one."

    You may be correct in your assumption because we did have this type of "iconic" save in "Infamous"; however, Bristas can also be correct because the entire episode pretty much supports what she is saying. This episode was about Lois being a traditional woman, and a traditional woman relied on "her man" and was viewed as being weaker and almost unable to be without her man.
    We've also gotten Lois in his arms in Apocalypse and in Rabid. So it's happened more than three times before now.

    And that's not counting Recruit where he cradled her (even though she was on the ground), Prototype (in which she was unconscious so she doesn't remember it), and Crimson (which she doesn't remember).

    And what about the image that started out that scene? The one of Lois standing on Clark's shoulders? Anyone want to argue there was symbolism there, that Clark was the support for her in her career?

    I stand by original feeling that this is all being over analyzed. Frankly, I don't think the whole idea of Lois becoming a "traditional" female or anything like that in this episode had anything to do with gender roles, and everything to do with with Lois' fear of actually opening up to Clark in the first place. It's hard for someone who's as independent as Lois is to open herself up to someone she obviously is beginning to feel she needs. Which is what Dr. Fate said - he will need her and she will need him.

    And we saw that very need when Clark panicked at the idea that Lois was going to leave him. Even with her under a spell, the idea that she would leave freaked him out.

    And it wasn't that Lois couldn't make time for personal life and romance or whatever along with her job. It was that she didn't want to.
    Last edited by morrigan01; 02-22-2010 at 01:34 AM.

  5. #20
    Board Master Britas15's Avatar
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    Ella, you can speak for me any day.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ella View Post
    But your simplifying the issue, IMO.

    Bristas isn't stating, "Lois is showing weakness therefore she is being regressed." It's not that type of x=y equation. Lois has shown weakness and fragility in the past, even outside of the relationship. I mean one of my favorite scenes of the series was in Siren where Lois gave her "I can't be left behind one more time" speech to Clark (who of course, ended up leaving her behind exactly one year later in Bride, but I digress...). There Lois was extremely fragile and was showing a very deep insecurity and could definitely be described as being weak or having a moment of weakness and yet I would never call that scene a moment of regression, and while I don't want to speak for Bristas, I don't think she would either.

    So this weakness in a strong woman = regression is NOT what is being discussed here.

    Bristas is stating that the level and degree of showing Lois exposed, weak, and fragile has been extremely unbalanced not just when compared to Clark but when compared to how Lois has normally been from season to season.

    Being in a relationship does change a person, but this much?
    As I stated in my OP, and as I can now state more bluntly since I'm in the comments, what really disturbs me is that it's a female character being emotionally splayed out, made vulnerable, forced to say or do things that she never consented to saying or doing, and being made to endure that violation as if nothing was ever wrong with it. That smacks of one thing in particular, but I won't say the word because I can't bear to even see it on my screen.

    And that trend is not new. The writers, whether men or women, whether Bryan Miller or Anne Cofell Saunders, have made a habit of forcing Lois into these situations. And that's just not OK.

    One of the things that I always liked about Lois was that hers was not a cut-and-dried case of "tears = weakness," or "sadness = regression." If anything, Lois was established has having a very keen sense of who to trust with her feelings and emotions. She took to Martha very quickly for that reason. And she took to Clark for the same reason. Because Lois isn't afraid of her emotions, she's not afraid to cry. She just knows who to trust and who not to. And that, to me, set her so far apart from so many of the characters on Smallville. Pre-Season 8, I never classified Lois as weak. I don't think tears equal weakness. If anything, I think that being afraid of sadness or of expressing sadness evinces a personal failing. And we've seen that failing in characters like Clark, Chloe, and so on. Clark's learned from his past. Chloe hasn't. But Lois seemed to have a higher emotional IQ than anyone else from the day she set foot on the show.

    But in Seasons 8 and 9, Lois has been so thoroughly undermined by her feelings for Clark, and that is just...disappointing. She's becoming less of herself, she's becoming weaker and more stereotypical simply because of her feelings for Clark, and that's disgusting. She makes him stronger; he makes her weaker. How is that fair?

    More importantly, why has Lois been FORCED into being so exposed with Clark when she's never had a problem being honest with him? I don't support the idea of any character being put in so vulnerable of a position, because I'm very big on consent. So, I don't want Clark forced to be honest with Lois. But, I do want him to be more forthcoming. And to not do so solely when it suits him -- when he's trying to get her to date him, or trying to apologize, or abusing the fact that she's been "persuaded."

    I can't even tell you how deeply disturbed I am by the idea of Lois's psyche being invaded and abused in the manner that it has been since Season 8. I can't even say anything more about it right now.

    You may be correct in your assumption because we did have this type of "iconic" save in "Infamous"; however, Bristas can also be correct because the entire episode pretty much supports what she is saying. This episode was about Lois being a traditional woman, and a traditional woman relied on "her man" and was viewed as being weaker and almost unable to be without her man.

    The metaphor, as Bristas has described it, seems almost perfect now that I've read this, and I can't imagine how the writers would not have done this on purpose, especially the part about Lois needing to be on Clark's shoulders. It just visually fits with what we would soon be seeing in the rest of the episode.

    All in all, the imagery, if you really think about it, is pretty much on par with this analysis.
    Again, you can speak for me anytime. It doesn't escape me that Clark catching Lois and holding her in his arms is an iconic image, just like Clark standing on the gargoyle and looking very Superman-ly recalls an iconic image. Check out my avatar. (Also, you know what, Rhett Butler carrying Scarlett O'Hara up the stairs to their bedroom is also iconic. And not for a good reason.)

    But, c'mon, Lois standing on Clark's shoulders? Clark catching Lois when she falls? What the frak? That's intentional. That's totally intentional. Lois needs Clark, in a very traditional and stereotypical sense of "need." She's being reduced to a stereotype, plain and simple. And this has been a long time coming. "Persuasion" is not an isolated incident.
    Last edited by Britas15; 02-22-2010 at 02:10 AM.

  6. #21
    Lissa; Clois Fan lsarmiento21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Nora- View Post
    I don't think I agree with this post. Is Lois forgiving? Yes. Does that undermine her character? No. As some people assume, including myself, Lois senses that something's up with Clark. IMO she knows he has a big secret. Does she know he's the Blur? Probably not. But I think she knows that his weird behavior is part of his secret and she just won't ask him until he feels comfortable enough to tell her. And I love Lois for that. It doesn't make her Clark's doormat, it simply means that she trusts Clark enough to know that 1) his secret isn't something illegal or 2) immoral. It means that it's probably about HIM and noone else and Lois accepts and respects that. That's my take on it.



    Wow, don't agree with this at all. It's not a weakness to admit and accept that you need someone. Lois simply isn't used to it because she's always been on her own. Just because she now knows she can count on Clark to have her back doesn't undermine her character. As Lois said in Echo, she realized that she doesn't need to carry the load all by herself anymore. She's found someone she can lean on every once in a while when things get too tough. And IMO it's a give-and-take between the two. Clark told her he's stronger when she is around. And he has leaned on her for support multiple times as well.

    To me Lois and Clark are just great partners who are comfortable enough with showing the other their weakness, because they know the other accepts and loves them in spite of it, or heck, maybe because of it.

    I don't think them needing each other undermines either character. It just makes them human.
    Yes, just like Kristina said earlier.

    Quote Originally Posted by -Nora- View Post
    Yes. Thank you. I've seen a lot of people outraged every time Lois shows her vulnerable side. And I just don't get it. Let's leave out the argument whether Clark shows enough emotion to balance it out and just talk about Lois as a character. She stated herself at the very beginning that she hates being weak. But she is weak every once in a while! And that's why I love Lois so, so much. Because she's so human. I could never like a character who has a, "Nothing can hurt me or get near me" attitude 24/7. It's far from realistic.
    Great posts Nora!!! I was waiting for you to get in here and tell it like it is. ITA with what you are saying.

    Quote Originally Posted by ginevrakent View Post
    I can agree that they've exposed Lois' emotional vulnerability more than usual this season, and that the imbalance with Clark is only gradually being addressed (as it should be). I don't agree with conflating this issue with issues of gender and feminism.

    I view Lois standing on Clark's shoulders at the start of the episode as communicating the exact opposite actually. Clark was literally supporting Lois in her work.
    Yes, exactly.

    Quote Originally Posted by -Nora- View Post
    I don't think the scene was about showing that Lois can't handle both, it was about showing that Lois didn't want to handle both, which IMO was confirmed when she said this:

    "I guess it's easier to complain about Valentine's Day than to give it a shot."

    Lois is still adjusting to couplehood and she's still scared of embracing it. Instead she decided to dive into work.

    That's how I saw the whole thing.
    Again, great response. And that is so Lois. Even in LnC, she dives into work in order to not confront the couplehood straight on like Clark is.
    Last edited by lsarmiento21; 02-22-2010 at 01:16 AM.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by morrigan01 View Post
    Well, that's because I honestly think it is a simple issue. I've seen arguments like this too done many times with too many fictional female characters that I've honestly, I think, become desensitized to it. From Kira Nerys in DS9, Kathryn Janeway and B'Elanna Torres in ST: Voyager, to Dana Scully on the X-Files to freakin' Hermione Granger in the Harry Potter series. Some episode or something airs that shows said strong female character being vulnerable more than we've ever seen them, and then a discussion starts up that the character is being regressed and made "traditional."

    And, frankly, it's an argument that's never made about men - that their being feminized - if we get an episode where they are overly vulnerable.
    But this conversation isn’t something that I’ve seen being discussed every single time that Lois is made vulnerable.

    As I stated in my other post, I remember the scene in Siren where I still believe Lois exposed herself the most, was praised all around, even by non-Lois fans. In that scene, Lois was vulnerable and weak, yet it was an incredibly beautiful moment and I would even classify it as a moment where Lois paradoxically showed strength in a sense because she had the courage to open herself up and willingly admit her insecurities to Clark.

    As the relationship has developed, however, Lois isn’t just opening herself up, she is 1) continually being forced to open up and 2) not being met with an equal amount of openness from Clark.

    That’s what creates this inequality and that’s what reflects negatively on this type of characterization.

    I’m happy that Lois can have her weak moments because we all can but I don’t see Lois and Clark as equals in their relationship anymore. These past two episodes almost seemed to have been written as partner episodes, with one having Clark confront his fear of being burned in a relationship and this second one having Lois confront her fear about fulfilling the part of a relationship that may require her to fit into a more traditional role than she is used to (with her celebrating holidays like Valentine’s day, holding hands in public, and maybe in the future even moving in with Clark and perhaps cooking or creating a real home together).

    Both characters in that manner were treated as equals and yet I can’t help but feel the disparity between how much Lois has revealed to Clark in comparison to how much he has revealed to her.

    Last week Clark never told Lois about his insecurities. He did all that with Zatanna. Lois on the other hand felt a lot of insecurity in that episode and ended up confessing all of her emotions to Clark and admitting that she was insecure and that she had to get used to Clark being such a great guy. So it seemed that it was an episode about Clark’s insecurities yet when it came time for the two characters to stand as equals and both be forthcoming in communicating their fears to one another, Clark came out short. He admitted that the relationship was new to him but didn’t explain what that meant. He didn’t tell Lois about keeping her at an arm’s length or about his fear of being burned as he had been with Lana. Why didn’t Clark tell Lois this? Can you answer me THAT?

    Why in this episode about Clark’s fears was Lois not allowed to understand what Clark was feeling truly insecure about? Because that didn’t make very much sense, especially with how Lois opened up in that scene. “Yeah, it’s new for me too,” Lois said after she had admitted to feeling insecure about the whole Zatanna situation.

    Lois is not just being forced to confess her feelings—either sometimes by literal force as in Committed, but also simply because of the situation at hand where these feelings come to the surface and start to affect her and she ends up having to verbalize them—she’s doing that to Clark. She’s showing him HER vulnerabilities and HER weaknesses, and yet he is NOT doing that with her.

    It’s that disparity that is most troubling to me.

    Now in this episode once again we go through the motions of Lois having worries and struggling with her insecurities and once again she is the one suffering in the episode. Lois admits to more insecurities about her role in the relationship, and even in a scene that is not about Lois and Clark exactly, but about the Blur, Lois opens up more even more, and exposes yet another insecurity—that maybe she’s not trustworthy.

    Does Clark open up to Lois in this episode, show his vulnerabilities, make himself fragile by verbalizing some deep rooted fear that he has inside? No.

    So, as much as I enjoy seeing Lois open up and show her softer side, it seems like the writers are going overboard with opening Lois up to Clark and yet he is not opening himself to Lois. Clark hasn’t told Lois about his insecurities in this relationship and he hasn’t told her about the whole other half of his life—that he’s an alien and that he masquerades as the Blur each night.

    Where is the balance in the relationship?

    Lois isn’t the only flawed character here that is mending herself with this relationship, yet she’s the only being open about how she is growing and becoming stronger, and that is quite ironic when it was Clark who told Lois that she makes HIM stronger. Well how exactly is Lois supposed to believe that when Clark has rarely shown his weak and vulnerable side to Lois? The closest he came was telling her that this relationship was new to him.

    That was it. “This relationship is new to me Lois.”

    From the POV of this character, I cannot imagine Lois thinking that if in a few episodes they are both happy together that she has really made Clark all that much stronger, because he hasn’t seemed very weak or insecure TO HER about their relationship or any other part of his life.

    It was an injustice for Clark not to tell Lois that he was keeping her at arm’s length and that he was afraid of somehow getting burned in their relationship.

    These fears that Clark has should have come to the surface if we are to believe that both Lois and Clark are being written as intimate and emotional equals. Right now Lois is putting it all on the line, whether consensually or forcefully, while Clark is keeping his deepest fears and insecurities all to himself.

    I can only hope that in the finale Clark will finally step it up and WILLINGLY divulge something very deep and meaningful that he has kept hidden. The secret, of course, would be my preference.

  8. #23
    Site Groupie morrigan01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ella View Post
    It was an injustice for Clark not to tell Lois that he was keeping her at arm’s length and that he was afraid of somehow getting burned in their relationship.
    Hey, Ella? I was one of the people arguing that the idea that Clark was holding Lois at arms length at all was BS anyway. So the fact that he didn't say that to Lois but Zatanna was just the topping on that little plot contrivance cake last week IMO.

    But the rest of this season? One of the main dynamics of the Lois and Clark relationship is that Lois is the one who's been skittish and holding Clark at arms length, and Clark has been the one confident in his feelings and in being with her.

    We saw his fear - his real fear, not the plot contrived one from last week - in this episode when Lois was trying to leave. Now, he didn't come straight out and tell her he's afraid of losing her because he was too busy trying to get her to not leave. But if Clark has been portrayed all season as skittish and actually holding Lois at arms length - and not only Lois doing this - then I would understand and agree that Clark wasn't expressing all his fears to her.

    But so far? Until this episode? He's had no fear wrt the relationship. (Again, last week's fear was a plot contrivance IMO, given Clark's actions all season). Since the end of Rabid, Clark knew he wanted to be with Lois and went for it full on. Heck, when Lois was mad at him over the Oliver thing, he flat out told her the only reason her was helping her with the TV audition was for her. He's been confident and assured of wanting to be with her, and getting her to enter into the relationship in the first place.

    (Which is one reason the idea that he was avoiding her and keeping her at arms length last week ticked me off. Because, if this were at all true, then why did he convince her to enter into a relationship with him in the first place?)

    And, bringing it all back to the gender role issue - it isn't because Lois is the woman and Clark's the man that we've gotten more of her fears than his. It's because they set up Lois to be the one skittish about the whole relationship and holding Clark at arms length, and have portrayed Clark as being the one confident in wanting to be with her. His one real fear, which was actually set up the minute she came back in Savior, is losing her completely from his life. As he felt he was about to do here.

    Now, we can argue about him not expressing that fear to Lois. But it's not a subject that has come up between them yet to actually discuss such a thing.

    But Lois isn't at the same level of confidence about the relationship that Clark is. (And before anyone says it, no, it's not because she doubts Clark, but because of her own history of love, romance and relationships). And that's why and where the unbalance - and the source of it - comes from. Not their genders.
    Last edited by morrigan01; 02-22-2010 at 02:36 AM.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ella View Post
    Where is the balance in the relationship?

    Lois isn’t the only flawed character here that is mending herself with this relationship, yet she’s the only being open about how she is growing and becoming stronger, and that is quite ironic when it was Clark who told Lois that she makes HIM stronger. Well how exactly is Lois supposed to believe that when Clark has rarely shown his weak and vulnerable side to Lois? The closest he came was telling her that this relationship was new to him.

    That was it. “This relationship is new to me Lois.”

    From the POV of this character, I cannot imagine Lois thinking that if in a few episodes they are both happy together that she has really made Clark all that much stronger, because he hasn’t seemed very weak or insecure TO HER about their relationship or any other part of his life.

    It was an injustice for Clark not to tell Lois that he was keeping her at arm’s length and that he was afraid of somehow getting burned in their relationship.

    These fears that Clark has should have come to the surface if we are to believe that both Lois and Clark are being written as intimate and emotional equals. Right now Lois is putting it all on the line, whether consensually or forcefully, while Clark is keeping his deepest fears and insecurities all to himself.

    I can only hope that in the finale Clark will finally step it up and WILLINGLY divulge something very deep and meaningful that he has kept hidden. The secret, of course, would be my preference.
    You have a point. Clark needs to show Lois more of his vulnerabilities and the fact that he isn't is making it seems as though Lois is being too vulnerable and too sensitive.

  10. #25
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    Great posts morrigan01 I agree with everything you've said so far. I think people are reading way to much into things.
    Last edited by Ek12; 02-22-2010 at 02:59 AM.

  11. #26
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    Britas, I always find your essays very thought provoking, and I appreciate that. In this case though, I really don't agree with the conclusion you reach. When I watch the show as a whole, that's not the impression I get at all.

    I wouldn't say, for example, that Smallville's Clark is a typical masculine figure at all. He's become more assertive and confident, sure, but he's still also the guy who frames things of sentimental value and puts pictures in a scrapbook, wants to celebrate holidays in the most sappy way possible and is extatic just to hold hands with Lois. I also think that he likes being manhandled by Lois as much as Lois likes being cradled in his arms.

    But maybe I misunderstood this concept, because I'm not really sure exactly what do you mean with masculinity and femininity... language problem, I think.

    I disagree that emotional openness equals weakness. Lois's armour may protect her from hurt, thus making her somewhat strong, but it also prevents her from reaching out to the one person who can help her and support her, something that would ultimately make her stronger. So I see it as a good thing that her walls are crumbling, because if they didn't, she would remain forever alone. Opening yourself to someone is always a difficult process, and it often involves hurt, but if that someone is the right one, as Lois admitted she thinks of Clark, in the end it'll be worth it.

    Most of all though, I don't agree that so far Lois has opened up more that Clark in regards to their relationship. I could have understood this argument, to a degree, before the airing of Persuasion, but now I really can't see why it would be a issue anymore.

    I saw Persuasion as much more about Clark's feelings than Lois's. She was mind-whammied, he was not. She wasn't responsible for her actions, and she could later dismiss her own behaviour as nothing more than a weird side effect of the bad chocolate. But Clark couldn't. And she remembrered everything.
    I think in Persuasion Clark was the one who truly put all of his feelings on the line. He was on the verge of tears when she announced she was leaving him. He was desperate. He was ready to do and say literally anything to make her stay, even if he knew that she wasn't herself, and would have probably returned anyway once she came to her senses. And while he started promising her always and forever just to please her and convince her not to leave, as soon as the words left his mouth he realized that he really meant it. And Lois did too, because mind-whammied or not, she was suspicious of his true intent and specifically questioned him about it. And she recognized, as did he, that when he replied "I do", he was totally, utterly sincere.

    At the end of the day, Lois could and did take back almost everything she had said and done, but Clark had no excuse. And I got the impression he didn't even particularly want one, because he's finally fully aware that he really wants to spend the rest of his life with her, and he doesn't regret saying so.

  12. #27
    Site Groupie morrigan01's Avatar
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    For the record, there are exactly two fears Clark has wrt his relationship with Lois (going strictly by his actions all season):

    - Losing her completely from his life. Again, this was set up in Savior, and was made more explicit in Rabid, and was shown once again in this episode.

    - Telling her his secret. Now, anyone arguing that we need to hear more from Clark on why he's not telling her the secret? I completely agree, we do need more on this subject from him. Is it just fear? Is there more to it? Why is he not telling her?

    But other than that? What other fear has he shown wrt his relationship with Lois? (Like I said, what he expressed last week was in no way consistent with his actions all season). He wanted this relationship, convinced her to enter into it. And perused her confidently when he realized being with her is what he wanted. We're only getting Lois' fears more because she's been shown to be the hesitant one in all of this, not him.

    So no, again, I stand by my opinion that the gender argument is over analyzing the situation.
    Last edited by morrigan01; 02-22-2010 at 04:07 AM.

  13. #28
    New In Town Lea's Avatar
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    ITA with Morrigan01.

  14. #29
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    Lois needing Clark doesn't undermines her. Dr Fate said that Clark would need her too - does that undermines him as future Superman? Nope. The truth is, Lois is this way because of her history. It's new for her to have someone to rely on, to share the burden. And she's learning to accept this. I don't think any of what we had in Persuasion has to do with gender roles.

    And for those complaining about Clark's Pov:

    1. On the first scene, Lois was mocking the idea of a holding hands/romantic date scenario, and yet Clark puts himself on the line by directly admitting to her that he'd like to have a traditional date sometimes, opening himself for a negative or a dismiss of the idea again.

    2 . On the loft scene, when Lois is talking about not knowing the first thing about family time and etc, Clark tries to STOP her from talking like that because he realizes she's not herself.

    3. Clark knows Lois is not herself, and yet he honestly reveals that he wants to be with her forever and always - you don't get a better hint than his "I do". Without knowing at all what would happen when she was cured, or if she would remember he told her that.

    4. And finally on the last scene, he takes ALL the blame for the situation so that Lois would feel more at ease.

    I don't think Clark has been less vulnerable at all. He's a different person than Lois, therefore his vulnerabilities are being shown differently.

  15. #30
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    And for those complaining about Clark's Pov:

    1. On the first scene, Lois was mocking the idea of a holding hands/romantic date scenario, and yet Clark puts himself on the line by directly admitting to her that he'd like to have a traditional date sometimes, opening himself for a negative or a dismiss of the idea again.
    That's was a great moment and it was nice to see Clark open up about something that he wanted in the relationship. He was honest with Lois and that's always important and worth recognizing.

    2 . On the loft scene, when Lois is talking about not knowing the first thing about family time and etc, Clark tries to STOP her from talking like that because he realizes she's not herself.
    How is this showing us Clark's POV or vulnerabilities?

    3. Clark knows Lois is not herself, and yet he honestly reveals that he wants to be with her forever and always - you don't get a better hint than his "I do". Without knowing at all what would happen when she was cured, or if she would remember he told her that.
    Yes, that's true and he does seem to really think about what he is saying so it's not as though he just says it to please her. That's actually one of my favorite moments in the episode.

    4. And finally on the last scene, he takes ALL the blame for the situation so that Lois would feel more at ease.
    Clark going along with Lois' side of the story doesn't show his POV or express any of his insecurities though. He simply went along with her, more than likely because she seemed embarrased by it.

    I don't think Clark has been less vulnerable at all. He's a different person than Lois, therefore his vulnerabilities are being shown differently.
    I do think that Clark has been a lot less vulnerable than Lois. With that said, I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing. They're just different.

    ----- Added 2 Minutes later -----

    Quote Originally Posted by morrigan01 View Post
    We're only getting Lois' fears more because she's been shown to be the hesitant one in all of this, not him.
    Yet Clark has fears too, as seen in the Zee episode.

    ----- Added 4 Minutes later -----

    Quote Originally Posted by Ella View Post
    Last week Clark never told Lois about his insecurities. He did all that with Zatanna. Lois on the other hand felt a lot of insecurity in that episode and ended up confessing all of her emotions to Clark and admitting that she was insecure and that she had to get used to Clark being such a great guy. So it seemed that it was an episode about Clark’s insecurities yet when it came time for the two characters to stand as equals and both be forthcoming in communicating their fears to one another, Clark came out short. He admitted that the relationship was new to him but didn’t explain what that meant. He didn’t tell Lois about keeping her at an arm’s length or about his fear of being burned as he had been with Lana. Why didn’t Clark tell Lois this? Can you answer me THAT?
    ITA, Ella. I felt that Zee finding out about Clark's insecurities was actually a slap in the face to Lois who is the person that needs to hear all this.

    ----- Added 7 Minutes later -----

    Quote Originally Posted by Ella View Post
    From the POV of this character, I cannot imagine Lois thinking that if in a few episodes they are both happy together that she has really made Clark all that much stronger, because he hasn’t seemed very weak or insecure TO HER about their relationship or any other part of his life.

    It was an injustice for Clark not to tell Lois that he was keeping her at arm’s length and that he was afraid of somehow getting burned in their relationship.

    These fears that Clark has should have come to the surface if we are to believe that both Lois and Clark are being written as intimate and emotional equals. Right now Lois is putting it all on the line, whether consensually or forcefully, while Clark is keeping his deepest fears and insecurities all to himself.
    The writers messed up there. That's all I can say. Clark and Lois need to both be honest with each other and Clark is keeping a lot of things from Lois so he may be very confident in one episode about their relationship but then all of that gets completely undermined in another episode when he admits to keeping Lois at a distance. Clark's got some issues and some conflicts he needs to work out but he's not talking to Lois about any of this.
    Last edited by Candice; 02-22-2010 at 03:54 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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