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who killed jor-el?

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  • My money is on Tess.

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    • Well, we all know who I'm voting for. We'll find out soon, though, right?

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      • It was..............Brainiac, or fortress jor-el protecting his son from the "abomination" (jor-el's own discription of the orb clones)

        or brain-el, some of the fortress crystals are still black

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        • I'm going with the ends justifying the means.
          It can't be Lex. I don't ever see that happening, and Michael is probably willing to go skydiving without a parachute than come back for even one episode.

          So, Lex is gone.

          Zod, could he have done it, yes. But to me, it doesn't make any sense. There are plenty of reasons to keep Jor-El alive.
          Tess wouldn't do it, because she wouldn't exactly be able to move from the mansion all the way to Clark's farm, kill Jor-El, and make it back.

          No one knows where Chloe was during all this, so she's still a possibility.
          For all I know, she was off meeting Zod. It's getting to the point where I can see Chloe manipulating both Zod and Clark.

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          • I wanted to come back to this after it was revealed that Alia was the killer. When Clark found the dying Jor-El he asked who attacked him and Jor-El's reply was that he didn't know. In the end they explained it to be Alia but that doesn't make sense because Jor-El knew who Alia and every Kandorian were as he collected their DNA and placed their DNA samples in the orb. Some people in this thread said that Jor-El withheld his killer's name to prevent Clark from killing them in revenge, and I don't believe he would lie to Clark because he called him honorable and Kryptonians (especially Jor-El) are above lying. Since Jor-El knew his son was honorable, he wouldn't have had worries about Clark killing Alia for revenge. Either way, Alia being the killer doesn't make sense as Zod killed Alia after finding out in the timeline where the solar towers never went online, so why wouldn't he have done the same in the original doomed timeline where the Alia of the future came from?

            The towers in both timelines weren't ready until the same day, which happened to fall on the morning after the last scene in the episode Persuasion, which took place on Valentine's Day and I think the day after. The episode Kandor took place 2 episodes before Pandora, which was the episode Clark & Tess found out how the future would turn out from Lois' memories. So as of the episode Kandor, there should not be huge differences between the timelines other than Lois being back because in both timelines Clark would not have met Zod yet. But even Lois being back should've had no effect on Jor-El's death in the doomed timeline where he would have told Clark the same thing about not knowing his killer because in the revised timeline he had no knowledge that there was a previous timeline that was doomed where Zod would get his powers from solar towers. If that was Jor-El withholding the truth to prevent Clark from killing Alia, then it would've happened the same way the 1st time around in the doomed timeline and he would have told Clark to save Zod in that timeline as well, so Clark should not have blamed Zod for Jor-El's death in that timeline just as he didn't in the revised timeline where the towers were later destroyed by Clark. In the revised timeline, Alia's funeral happened in Persuasion as well (same episode that Clark destroyed the towers in), so in both timelines Alia should have been dead before the solar towers went online, which would have been before any of the events in Lois' memories shown in Pandora happened (Zod trapping humans, Clark, etc). Yet in the original doomed timeline, she was still alive. Zod was not happy regarding Alia defying his order to take Jor-El back & instead killing Jor-El in the revised timeline and I see no reason why he wouldn't be the same with Alia and execute her in the original/doomed timeline.

            I'm sorry but the writing behind this was entirely lacking. They never gave us a reason/motive for Alia wanting to kill Jor-El and hardly gave us any background on her character. Having a character like that kill a major character like Jor-El without any motive was just stupid and a complete waste if you ask me.

            Had they done what I was suggesting and explain Lex to being the killer as a hint that he was never dead and still alive and kicking and not revealing it completely until the series finale, it would have made sense and it would have shown Lex to be far more dangerous that Clark ever thought he was. And Clark would have shown restraint by not killing Lex because doing so would destroy him as a hero and stain him with darkness making it impossible to save the world from Darkseid.

            The only 2 characters who would have really made sense to be Jor-El's killer are Lex or Brainiac, who back in season 9 I was speculating to be the Alia we saw from the future after finding it inexplicable how she had powers under both yellow & red solar radiation (only Brainiac was seen having powers under both) and how I also thought a copy of Brainiac from the black crystal Clark plugged in to send Davis to the Phantom Zone (before Chloe pulled it out) got into the orb to explain its voice that we heard talking to Tess & made Tess think she destroyed it as she said she did, not knowing that the crystal would have instead been absorbed into the orb. Unfortunately the writers did neither of these. Both Lex & Brainiac had motives to kill Jor-El. None of the others did and none of them fit people who Jor-El wouldn't recognize.

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            • Originally posted by xrayvision
              I wanted to come back to this after it was revealed that Alia was the killer. When Clark found the dying Jor-El he asked who attacked him and Jor-El's reply was that he didn't know. In the end they explained it to be Alia but that doesn't make sense because Jor-El knew who Alia and every Kandorian were as he collected their DNA and placed their DNA samples in the orb.
              Wrong. Their DNA was collected by an unnamed medic, not by Jor-El himself. And did he know who Alia was? It was established that the Orb created hundreds of clones. Where's the evidence that Jor-El knew everyone on a first name basis? We also never saw the actual killing. How do we know that he saw her face? She could've easily worn a mask (like she did in "Savior" and "Pandora"). The fact that Jor-El was still alive, after her attack points towards that. If he'd seen her face, why risk letting him get away, even if he'll soon die from his injuries? He could've told someone (which he did) or left information pointing in her direction.

              They never gave us a reason/motive for Alia wanting to kill Jor-El and hardly gave us any background on her character. Having a character like that kill a major character like Jor-El without any motive was just stupid and a complete waste if you ask me.
              She didn't kill Jor-El, she killed a clone of Jor-El. So, I wouldn't qualify it as her having killed a major character. And they did explain it. She did it for Rao (religious motivations). Jor-El said that they were abominations and she feared that he would destroy them. This is the same woman, who tried to kill Clark, because he'd try to stop the Kandorians from ruling the world. She acted out of fear.

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              • Originally posted by jon-el87
                Wrong. Their DNA was collected by an unnamed medic, not by Jor-El himself. And did he know who Alia was? It was established that the Orb created hundreds of clones. Where's the evidence that Jor-El knew everyone on a first name basis? We also never saw the actual killing. How do we know that he saw her face? She could've easily worn a mask (like she did in "Savior" and "Pandora"). The fact that Jor-El was still alive, after her attack points towards that. If he'd seen her face, why risk letting him get away, even if he'll soon die from his injuries? He could've told someone (which he did) or left information pointing in her direction.
                Nobody said it was an unnamed medic. The council said that in sparing Jor-El's life, he would have to create the orb, so that could've meant he had to do every part of the creation, even taking the blood. But even if he wasn't the one who withdrew the blood/DNA that went into the orb, there's no way a scientist like Jor-El with the concerns he had would not do in depth research on whose DNA was going into the orb and followed up on researching their bio & everything about them. It was not hundreds of clones that were released, but definitely less than 50. The majority of them had been collected at the Luthor Mansion and there's no reason to think that massive numbers of them were killed so that only the less than 20 we saw being pulled out & sent to New Krypton in Salvation were left by that point. If she wore a mask like she wore in Savior & Pandora and Jor-El knew her face, he would've known it was her if a viewer like me is able to identify her with a mask after seeing her face without one. If Alia really attacked Jor-El, mask or no mask she would not have let him live long enough to be found still alive by Clark given who he was and Zod's orders NOT to kill/harm Jor-El. If she was the attacker, she would want no chance of being discovered given how she was not only killing the clone father of the one Kryptonian on Earth who did have powers and who could kill them all, but also defying a direct order by her ultimate superior (Zod). And given how she was blamed for the murder anyway even without Jor-El being able to give details, there's just no logic in how she was discovered or if it was that easy to track it back to her, why she would ever risk killing him.

                She didn't kill Jor-El, she killed a clone of Jor-El. So, I wouldn't qualify it as her having killed a major character. And they did explain it. She did it for Rao (religious motivations). Jor-El said that they were abominations and she feared that he would destroy them. This is the same woman, who tried to kill Clark, because he'd try to stop the Kandorians from ruling the world. She acted out of fear.
                We all know he was a clone, but just because he was a clone doesn't mean he wasn't important. It killed Clark's 2nd chance to know at least a younger version of his physical father and we saw how bad he took it and how it made him almost kill Tess and how it even made him consider turning on the Kandorians. She couldn't have done it for religious purposes because as Zod himself said in Upgrade that science is religion on Krypton and there was no scientific reason for killing Jor-El. The Alia of the present at that time had no reason to think Jor-El or Clark would destroy them. It was only the future Alia who saw Clark & his friends be responsible for shutting down the solar tower who began to think of Clark as a danger. Or else that Alia who had powers too under the red solar conditions would have defied Zod and killed Clark when he was powerless. So what you're saying makes no sense.

                There's just no logical reason for Alia to have killed Jor-El and it was never explained why she had powers under red & yellow solar conditions in Pandora & Savior. I always assumed she was a form Brainiac took that happened when the black Brainiac crystal that Clark used to try to send Davis to the Phantom Zone in Beast ended up merging with the orb offscreen while in Tess' possession but nothing like that was confirmed. I even made theories regarding this:

                Post your wildest theories, speculation, musings about what's going to happen on the show. ALL threads containing spoilers must be marked with the word SPOILER in the subject line.


                Post your wildest theories, speculation, musings about what's going to happen on the show. ALL threads containing spoilers must be marked with the word SPOILER in the subject line.


                It would've made much more sense if Lex was alive at the time, which of course he was as we saw him in that chamber in the mansion in season 10 waiting to be brought back fully, and used his company's technology, like the astral projection technology seen in Reunion or invisibility technology like Jeff Palmer used in Shimmer, Graham Garrett used in Fade & Wes Keenan used in Prototype; to attack Jor-El & inflict wounds that would kill him. The wounds were on the front of Jor-El's body so he had to be facing his attacker.

                We all know that the Lex blown up in the truck was not the real one, as the real Lex never acted desperate like that. Only clones like Adrian Cross (Julian Luthor clone from Gemini) and the crazy Lex clone in Lazarus behaved that rashly and Lex had an entire lab full of them at Cadmus. He also acquired Cyntechnics, the company that experimented on Victor Stone in season 5's Cyborg so he had access to cybernetics plus there was a Lex-Toyman collaboration seen in Requiem, whether it was the real Lex who collaborated with him or a clone Lex used to cover his real whereabouts. When we next saw Schott/Toyman in Echo, he had a fully working cyborg version of himself with skin, eyes, etc and a bomb planted inside and it looked exactly like him to any normal person and even fooled Clark until he took a closer look with his powers. The Toyman cyborg could've been an improvement over a Lex cyborg that could've been what exploded in the truck in Requiem. We even saw Oliver witness Lex through a glass door on the roof of the Ace of Clubs in Echo and the Lex he saw, unlike a figment of his imagination would do, flinched when Oliver threw his drink at the door. So I'm just taking the seeds/clues that the writers have thrown in and putting them together to create an awesome scenario where Lex had been up & about for a while after the events of Arctic and before he returned in Finale. He would've been prone to organ failures that happened every now & then and had to withdraw into his LX0 chamber for organ replacements, but between organ replacements, he was out on the prowl and committing dangerous acts. Then when his heart began to fail, he had to withdraw permanently until he got a donor heart so sometime in mid-late season 9, he was in the chamber constantly until the Finale.
                Last edited by xrayvision; 03-05-2019, 10:31 AM.

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                • Originally posted by xrayvision
                  Nobody said it was an unnamed medic.
                  We literally saw an unnamed medic take her blood in the opening of the episode.

                  If she wore a mask like she wore in Savior & Pandora and Jor-El knew her face, he would've known it was her if a viewer like me is able to identify her with a mask after seeing her face without one.
                  This is a Superman adaptation. A man able to disguise himself with only a pair of eyeglasses. Other characters are able to disguise themselves with domino masks and wigs. Basically, the rule of the universe is that disguises work much better, than they would in the real-world.

                  We all know that the Lex blown up in the truck was not the real one,
                  Actually, it was the real Lex. Some pieces (probably including the brain) survived the explosion and were combined with parts from clones, to construct Lex a new body.



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