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Orb Inconsistency & Major Retcon about the Stones & Davis

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  • #46
    I honestly wish Jor-El would have said, "The Stones of Knowledge" are already in place on Earth and this Orb will be soon to follow. Our civilization will have a fool-proof backup plan if we found ourselves in desperate times." Would have cleared it up completely. Well besides the whole Orb taking away Clark's powers stuff. And the fact that the Orb was in the Mansion...*sigh*

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    • #47
      Originally posted by warriorrenegade
      Well we don't yet know how Krypton's time travel works or if it is even time travel. For all we know for every year they live it's 10 years for us or even more. So he could've hid those stones on earth maybe. Or were those the original stones even they look the part, but are they "the" stones? You know?
      But time would have to flow the same. It's not like they're in a black hole or the Phantom Zone. The only real time travel I've seen was when Clark went back to Krypton in Apocalypse and that was done through the Fortress. And I felt that it was extremely contrived & was a complete plot device.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Vergon6
        If they ever even attempt to reconcile this, it's going to sound really convoluted.
        Exactly. A lot of people keep saying: "The orb was created to control Clark if he ever became a threat to humanity," but the only reason to explain what the orb does know is to say that the orb can do MANY things, which including the power to control Clark.

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        • #49
          personally, as someone mentioned previously, I think the writers realized how stupid season 4's plot was an decided to update it a little to be more compelling. I know continuity disruptions is a little annoying, but i find this storyline to be more interesting as well. that being said, I think we can't judge yet, give them time they may explain themselves.

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          • #50
            I'm confused with the stones as well. I could have sworn the Kryptonian who came to earth in the 16th century who fathered the Kawatche people came to earth to hide the stones. This man fall in love with a human women & procreated the Indian tribe from that forbidden affair.

            This will make sense since there were already on earth when Gertrude/Isobel arc and all of the seasons & arcs of the stone since the S4-S7

            Why right the history of the “Stones of Power”. It doesn’t make sense it’s a huge loop hole to the entire history of the stones & Smallville mythos

            They should have left it alone & Jor-el shouldn’t have had those stones in his procession.

            There has to be an explaination to this huge turn of storyline. It does look like Jor-el had something else to do on earth.

            As far as Zod sons, he was probably previous married before Faora.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by xrayvision
              Well, they weren't just buried. They were housed in relics. The Fire stone was housed in a statue of Ra. The Water stone was housed in what looked like a Mayan relic. The Air stone was housed in the horse relic in China and was buried underground in a spot that someone needed the map to find. The original map was in the China temple on that ancient garment and was in color that revealed it to not be a map, but a guide that identified a tree that had the Air stone buried by its base. So all these details had to be done over a long period of time. It makes sense that the person who foretold the legend of Naman and knew that Naman would live on Earth with humans would be the one to create the stones to prepare Naman's stay on Earth.
              Season 4 is kind of a blur, but this could all still make sense (and still show Jor-El to be the creator of the stones) IF he visited Earth before 1961. But even that wouldn't make sense because of his age when he allegedly made the stones...

              Edit: Or, he sent someone else to Earth with the stones AFTER they were created and THAT person started the legend of Naman. If the Els were able to visit Earth via portal, why wouldn't other Kryptonian families be allowed the same experience?
              Last edited by Aries83; 11-06-2009, 08:04 PM.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Supes4Ever
                Time differences between Krypton and Earth, along with time travel explain the differences with the stones.

                Davis is explained because his first wife was killed in the battle that occurred in Kandor, so Davis was an experiment.

                The Orb is explained even better to me then it was in Season 7. We now know it was infused with blue kryptonite. This means that the stream that went through him in "Arctic" was infused with blue kryptonite, which stole his powers.

                As for why it "controlled" Clark, there are two possible explanations: 1) Jor-El held onto the Orb and when he had his son, he changed its purpose (hence why Zod wasn't released right away along with the other Kandorians) or 2) Zod, himself, and the other Kandorians were always meant to be released from the Orb eventually, and by their presence to "guide" Kal-El they could stop him if he attempted to turn evil. They explained this possible outcome by having Zod and Jor-El being friends, which means he would have trusted him to help reign in his son.

                Just my opinions.
                THIS!

                The building of the artificial red son by the Luthorcorp is going to strip Clark of his powers. This was the control mechanism.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Supes4Ever
                  Time differences between Krypton and Earth, along with time travel explain the differences with the stones.

                  Davis is explained because his first wife was killed in the battle that occurred in Kandor, so Davis was an experiment.

                  The Orb is explained even better to me then it was in Season 7. We now know it was infused with blue kryptonite. This means that the stream that went through him in "Arctic" was infused with blue kryptonite, which stole his powers.

                  As for why it "controlled" Clark, there are two possible explanations: 1) Jor-El held onto the Orb and when he had his son, he changed its purpose (hence why Zod wasn't released right away along with the other Kandorians) or 2) Zod, himself, and the other Kandorians were always meant to be released from the Orb eventually, and by their presence to "guide" Kal-El they could stop him if he attempted to turn evil. They explained this possible outcome by having Zod and Jor-El being friends, which means he would have trusted him to help reign in his son.

                  Just my opinions.
                  The only thing that stole Clark's powers in Blue was the ring. Before he put it on, he whacked Zor-El pretty hard out of Lionel's window. The orb is now pointless. It was originally a discovery of Veritas to "save" Earth from the Traveler by controlling him. It was created centuries before and left in the Luthor fireplace. It interacted with and traced the location of the Fortress. How could the orb end up in the Luthor fireplace centuries back? And why leave it there for the Luthors? If Jor-El created it, why not send it with Clark to Earth so that the Kents would find it in the ship with the ship's heart? It makes sense if Jor-El is not the creator of the orb but rather some distant Kryptonian.

                  I would have explained the Orb as being the Eradicator and as having been invented by Kem-El. In the comics, the Eradicator did somewhat control Clark/Superman by influencing his mind. And Gertrude & her Veritas society could have seeked it out back in the 1600's when she made contact with Zod according to Justice & Doom with some crystal. They could have maybe even explained Gertrude's contact with Zod as being a result of using the Eradicator, though I'm not sure if that would have worked.

                  Here is how I explained all this a few weeks ago:

                  Post your wildest theories, speculation, musings about what's going to happen on the show. ALL threads containing spoilers must be marked with the word SPOILER in the subject line.


                  ----- Added 4 Minutes later -----

                  Originally posted by Vergon6
                  They could always retcon again, and say Jor-El discovered three stones were already placed on Earth, so he didn't use these ones after all...if they could imply that Davis is the real Sageeth, they could do anything lol
                  LOL. It's just ridiculous. They could have easily told a story about Zod & Jor-El similar to the one of Clark & Lex without including all those details that they retconned the story with.

                  For the rest, all they have to do is introduce Kem-El. That's what I did in my fanfic Krypton. He was explained as the one who started it all. And from there, generations of the House of El made it their mission to either save Krypton or have a relocation backup plan. And Zod foiled that plan when he commandeered the Brainiac project. That would have been perfect.
                  Last edited by xrayvision; 11-06-2009, 08:04 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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                  • #54
                    Ugh... retcons give me headaches...

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Tinyeppy
                      I'm confused with the stones as well. I could have sworn the Kryptonian who came to earth in the 16th century who fathered the Kawatche people came to earth to hide the stones. This man fall in love with a human women & procreated the Indian tribe from that forbidden affair.

                      This will make sense since there were already on earth when Gertrude/Isobel arc and all of the seasons & arcs of the stone since the S4-S7

                      Why right the history of the “Stones of Power”. It doesn’t make sense it’s a huge loop hole to the entire history of the stones & Smallville mythos

                      They should have left it alone & Jor-el shouldn’t have had those stones in his procession.

                      There has to be an explaination to this huge turn of storyline. It does look like Jor-el had something else to do on earth.

                      As far as Zod sons, he was probably previous married before Faora.
                      That is exactly what I believe too. All they needed to do was say the Kryptonian who came back in the 1500's was Kem-El. My explanation to how he knew Krypton would explode was that he built a future-seeing device (that functioned similarly to the one in the movie Paycheck) and looked at Krypton 500 years into the future from his time & noticed it didn't exist. And then he backtracked to the day it exploded and followed Clark's ship to Earth and parts of his life with Lex. Once he saw all he needed to, he left to Earth and took apart the future seeing device and turned it into the Eradicator. He split it into 3 parts and scattered them between Earth & Krypton. He hid a piece in the Arctic (I used this to explain why the unified crystal landed where it did to create the Fortress) and started the Kawatche tribe & legend of Naman. I posted this in my fanfic back before Phantom aired and it made complete sense.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by xrayvision
                        Why does it have to be time travel? Why does it have to be Jor-El? Does this show know how to introduce other Kryptonians other than Jor-El? What about Kem-El? What about Nim-El? It should have been Nim-El in the orb, not Jor-El since Jor-El did not live in Kandor---his twin brother Nim-El did. But these foolish uninformed writers think that Jor-El is the only Kryptonian of consequence in the House of El.
                        To be honest, I think the show is already too cluttered with Kryptonians. He's supposed to be the LAST son of Krypton, remember? There have already been dozens of other Kryptonians on Smallville. I like what Clark said to Brainiac in season. (I'm paraphrasing) "I thought I was the last but every time I turn around I keep running into you people." (or words to that extent)

                        With regard to this episode, I thought it was fantastic. I thought they did a nice job of tying things together. Personally I was wondering how they were going to explain a 2nd Zod on Smallville (one apparently at an early point in his life) and they did it nicely. Essentially, the orb was the bottled city of Kandor (for all intents and purposes). This might have been a good episode to bring back Kara since she was supposedly looking for Kandor, but that's not a huge deal. We've already seen that Kryptonians have done this before (storing DNA in crystals for cloning - I guess it's just too bad that Jor-el and Lara weren't "stored" in the SAME crystal). I LIKED how they brought the stones of knowledge back up. Now we know that they weren't really intended for Clark (they were intended for the Kandor clones). That explains why they were protected by Kryptonite. Unpowered Kryptonians wouldn't be affected by Kryptonite, as we've seen in past episodes. AND, having Jor-el as their creator (rather than some ancient Kryptonian) explains why HIS voice (in AI form) is a part of the "program". I don't think it's a stretch to assume that the stones were sent back in time (we've already seen time travel on Smallville - in Apocalypse). And I think we can also assume that Zod DID have a wife and son prior to getting together with Faora. After losing his son, Zod would have become a little "obsessed" with having another child. Not being able to have one with Faora could have led him to do something as drastic as to create Doomsday/Davis.

                        Here's some more food for thought. Is Major Zod's family REALLY dead? Couldn't the so-called destruction we witnessed ACTUALLY have been the point in time when Brainiac took the city, shrank it, and put it into the bottle? Maybe they're still alive, trapped in the bottle. And maybe THAT'S the city Kara will some day find.

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                        • #57
                          I haven't read through all of this thread so I don't know if this was mentioned, but there's no inconsistency with the stones. We already know that Zod communicated with Gertrude in the 17th Century about the stones, so clearly Kryptonians have a way to communicate through time. The fact that they showed the stones and the orb 20 years before Krypton's destruction changes nothing. Furthermore, there's nothing to suggest that Faora was Zod's first wife.

                          The whole OP is nothing but assumptions.

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                          • #58
                            They could time travel, Jor-El must have gone back and reconfigured everything for Clark to find, and the orb is explainable too. It was to stop Clark just in case he turned bad. Jor-El must have known of a fail safe just in case they needed their powers before putting his DNA in it. So an entire army of Kryptonians was the way to stop the traveler, but it was mistranslated to "control" (ok can't get rid of that mistake easily).

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by BrandonR
                              We already know that Zod communicated with Gertrude in the 17th Century about the stones, so clearly Kryptonians have a way to communicate through time.
                              That's news to me. How do you figure?

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by xrayvision
                                Also, this experiment has nothing to do with controlling the Traveler.
                                I always thought that the traveller was an earth construction rather than kryptonian intentions

                                Also Zod & Faora weren't able to have children according to Bloodline. Now we find out there was a previous Davis and the Season 8 Davis was nothing more than a clone. It kills the entire atmosphere that existed in Bloodline that was used to explain his creation.
                                Maybe his wife at the time wasn't Faora, it was Ursa and the son was Lor-Zod

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