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Orb Inconsistency & Major Retcon about the Stones & Davis

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  • It's too early in the morning for me to read the whole thread (I got through 4 pages), but with regards to time travel. The meteor shower is from fragments of Krypton, which would have taken ages to get to Earth. Jor-El would have gone into the future to visit Earth and the Kents. It's no stretch for him to go a little less into the future which would be 1700 to plant it.

    What really got me is the actors. While Zod's actor was never clarified, it was clearly set that Jor-El looked identical to Kal-El, not just so they could do Clark/Lana in the past but because the dude who framed Jor-El for Lana's ancestor's murder copped to it when he saw Clark, thinking it was Jor-El's ghost. Having a completely different looking character doesn't work.

    I definitely agree with the sentiment that they're making it seem like Jor-El is the only significant character in the house of El. I suppose there's the argument that they're making it easy for people who don't know Superman canon (like me), but even so the retcons don't make sense. On the flip side, everything up until the end of Season 5 worked well, which is when the show seemed like it should end naturally (or Season 6 should have been the tie up, but the end at Season 5 would have been like the end of Season 5 of Angel), and the rest of the seasons were just screwed up.

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    • Not to resurrect a dead thread. But wanted to add one last piece to the timeline. There is now way that Swann received the message on the same date as the meteor shower. It is not physically possible. Clark was three years old at the time of the shower. Meaning he was traveling near the speed of light, but not at the speed of light, as the trip would have been instantaneous for him if he was traveling that fast. special relativity points to this. The closer you travel to the speed of light, it is theorized that time will slow for you but pass normally for anyone not traveling that fast. While if you're traveling at the speed of light or faster you will not age your trip will seem instantaneous. There is no way the message, and the ship, were traveling at the same speed. Not possible given that Clark was three years old when he arrived on earth but an infant when he left:

      So now we need to break this down with the knowledge we have.

      A. Swann learned about the Stones of Knowledge through Genevieve Teague.

      B. I believe, (going from memory here) Genevieve contacted Swann sometime in the seventies in regards to her ancestors (Gertrude's) Diary. The diary contained the story of the stones, as well as a story about how Isobel, seeing a General in a crystal, was told of the stones of knowledge. Tthe general being Zod, who was communicating via the past through the Crystals on Krypton.

      C. The Justice and Doom online stuff pointed out that the second Veritas meeting was in 1987, where all the members were present. So realistically he had years to decrypt the Kryptonian writings. It's very possible that the message he picked up from Krypton was in 86 or earlier. If the message was sent at the time of Krypton's destruction, as Krypton is 50 light-years from earth it would take 50 years to reach earth, meaning Krypton exploded either in 1937 or prior to that. Now we know that Clark was 3 years old when he arrived on earth, meaning that he traveled close to but not at the speed of light, and time slowed down for him while it would pass normally for anyone not traveling at that speed.

      Taken from Rosetta:

      Swann: It's a message from the stars, Clark. All my life, I've been staring out into space wondering. Wondering is anybody else out there? And then 13 years ago, I got an answer.

      Clark: The day of the meteor shower.

      Swann: One of my receiving stations picked up a faint signal. It took me years to decrypt it. And finally, I discovered a mathematical key that was built into the transmission.

      Clark: Can you read it?

      Swann: Yes. It says "This is Kal-El of Krypton. Our infant son, our last hope. Please protect him and deliver him from evil."

      Clark: [Touching the screen] Kal-El. Krypton.

      Swann: I've always wondered what happened to that child, if he survived the journey, if he lived among us. And then three days ago, I saw the symbol for Hope burned onto the side of a barn in Smallville, and I found that the farmer and his wife had an adopted son.
      Note that Swann said that thirteen years ago he got an answer. Meaning the day of the meteor shower. However, if Krypton is 50 light years away (which according to the continuity of the comics it is) and we know that, based on the minutes of the first Vertias meeting that occurred in 1987. At that meeting they knew of the threat that it was coming, and Swann repositioned his satelittes to detect that threat. But, at the time, they didn't know WHAT the symbols meant. So Swann first detected the signal not on the day of the shower, but prior to that, when he meant "13 years ago he got an answer" he meant the day he finally decoded his signal not the date he received it. And it doesn't mean at all that he decoded it on the day of the shower. Just that he got an answer to his question. The arrivial of a ship. Clark just assumed that he received the message on the day of the shower and Swann did not correct him. This would explain why 1. Vertias knew when the Traveler would arrive. They had two-plus years to prepare for his arrival, and Swann, using mathematics and the theory of special relativity was able to determine just how far away Krypton was, when the message was sent, and when a spaceship, traveling near the speed of light, would arrive on earth. This is how Lionel knew exactly when to strike at the Queens. This is how he and Vertias knew where and when the Traveler would arrive on earth. And thus how Lionel knew to be in Smallvile on that day. Swann decoded the message that they at first took as a danger to man, and realized after decoding it that it wasn't an invasion by an alien force but just a kid in a spaceship that was leaving a dying world. They started to worship this child as the coming savior, and created Vertias to welcome the Traveler to earth.

      This is your explanation. they knew because mathematically it was possible for them to. They did not receive the message in 1989, Clark just assumed they did. But they couldn't have as Clark did not travel at the speed of light, he was 3 years old when he arrived on earth. He was traveling slower than the message and hence arrived AFTER the message would have gotten here. They just decoded the message first and figured out where and when Clark was going to get here using mathematics and the theory of relativity.

      As to the problems of Eternal, if you look at the continuity of the day of the meteor shower it's not that much of an issue. Lionel took Davis first. Thinking him to be the Traveler. But when the tests proved he was just a human he got a phone call from Jonathan requesting a favor. The adoption papers. That is when Lionel first started suspecting Clark, but didn't want to suffer the same failure he did with Davis and rather waited patiently for Clark to exhibit strange behaviors. And when he did Lionel knew that Clark was the Traveler, and everything post season 2 was a Test by Lionel till he knew for sure in Commencement.
      Last edited by Chlois Supporter; 12-05-2009, 10:43 PM.

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      • Maybe the one "being" who has traveled to some prior time on earth, and put the stones in remote locations was not Jor-El but in fact Brainiac (that must be why the temple of air had kryptonite, brainiac could have put it there, to keep Kal-El from reaching it, or any body else) i think it was an order from Zod, since Brainiac seemed loyal to Zod, it could be a good way to safeguard the stones, especially if brainiac was to arrive on earth later on and perhaps the powerless Kryptonian clones created from the orb wouldnīt even feel the effects of green kryptonite.

        Brainiac was conceived by Jor-El but it seems that at some point it was corrupted by Zod, since Brainiac opened the portal for Zod in Season 5. The events of Apocalypse, are proof that Brainiac is able to time travel.

        I know all this should point to Jor-El doing the crystal thing since the fortress has Jor-El AI, but if we consider the AI was in the kaawatche cave first and the crystal went into the cave altar before creating the fortress, then Jor-Elīs AI must have been uploaded to the crystal during the act of uniting the stones at the cave .

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        • I just rewatched the episode and found a major problem with the timeline.

          The first scene we see of all of them getting blood drawn it said 20 years before destruction of krypton. Going by the shows timeline that would put it somewhere around 1966/7. I can live with Relic Jor-El(1961) growing up to look like Kandor Jor-El but man did Jor-El really age quickly between those 3 years. Also if he looked that old in Kandor I can only imagine how old he was when he became a parent in 1987.

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          • Al septien, about orb stuff between season 7/9

            fifteenth tweet:

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