Trickster/Gabriel Discussion

[Anu]

Maybe Gabriel took the trickter's body in Tall tales, just when Dean had killed him, we saw that there was a copy standing over the trickter's body.

[Divine Skylord]

What were Gabriel's (I'm not going to call him 'Trickster' anymore.....Gabriel is more epic) exact words about his fall from Heaven? I forgot.

[Call_Me_Ishmael]

But why have a copy be impaled by a stake when impaling the real one wouldn't have killed him (as we saw tonight)? Why did he go through the trouble to get their attention & set up the illusion that they tricked & killed him while letting them go (in Tall Tales)? Was that done to test them out and then let them go on their merry way so they could start the process of breaking the seals? It doesn't make sense though. It seems like he's bothered by the whole Apocalypse thing with his brothers (Michael & Lucifer) wanting to kill each other. It's contradictory. He's complaining about the Apocalypse, how his brothers want to kill each other (while he wants them to get along) and how he wants it to end by forcing the Winchesters to say yes. But then, by letting them go without telling them what was really happening back in Tall Tales & again in Mystery Spot, he did nothing when he could have prevented the Apocalypse & the whole fight between his brothers.

He never said he wanted to stop it; he wanted to speed up the process, i.e., making them bicker in "Tall Tales". Then, showing Sam that Dean is his weakness("Mystery Spot"), KNOWING that by even saying it, it doesn't change Sam at all, because Dean is Sam's weakness and vice versa, and that's something Sam can never change.

----- Added 1 Minutes later -----

What were Gabriel's (I'm not going to call him 'Trickster' anymore.....Gabriel is more epic) exact words about his fall from Heaven? I forgot.

He left and went into a "witness protection" state on Earth, thus molding himself a new body.

[LadyH]

"They believe their old enemy the Trickster is responsible, but discover someone or something else is involved. "
That line from the episode description implies that it wasn't the trickster from past episodes but a different entity.

No. It was Gabriel all along. He said: "Why do you think I've always taken such interest in you?"

What were Gabriel's (I'm not going to call him 'Trickster' anymore.....Gabriel is more epic) exact words about his fall from Heaven? I forgot.

"My own private witness protection. I skipped out of Heaven, had a face transplant, carved up my own little corner of the world. 'til you two screw it all up."

[Vergon6]

No. It was Gabriel all along. He said: "Why do you think I've always taken such interest in you?"



"My own private witness protection. I skipped out of Heaven, had a face transplant, carved up my own little corner of the world. 'til you two screw it all up."

Yeah, exactly. They are saying while there are tricksters out there, this particular trickster was always actually Gabriel. There was no taking over of bodies or anything like that. As unsatisfying as some of the retcons maybe, they can explain them away given Gabriel's power to do just about anything.

[superhippie2000]

Another thing--the Trickster said that the thing that attracted him to the Winchesters was how their family situation so closely parallels his (the Trickster's) family situation. But the events in season 2 (in Tall Tales) where the Winchesters "tricked" him & killed a "copy" of him is what really got him on the Winchesters' trail. And this was way before any seals were broken. So I thought this was another thing that didn't really jive with past events. The same is true about Mystery Spot. If someone wants to say the events of Mystery Spot are what got him interested in the Winchesters, then those events too were before the breaking of the seals and had nothing to do with Sam & Dean saying yes to their respective angels.

i think in tall tales he didnt know them until they tried to stop them and then when they left he may have done some research and learned sam was a chosen child. then in mystery spot he may have tried to prevent sam from going down a dark path cause he didnt want sam to release lucifer but now since everything has played off he had to do something to force them to end the war all together.

----- Added 2 Minutes later -----

Yeah, exactly. They are saying while there are tricksters out there, this particular trickster was always actually Gabriel. There was no taking over of bodies or anything like that. As unsatisfying as some of the retcons maybe, they can explain them away given Gabriel's power to do just about anything.

who knows maybe jhe doesnt have a body and the body he has isnt real its just a vision like everything else. but not likely lol. he might be the most powerful angel that we have seen. imagine him up agianst lucifer.

----- Added 4 Minutes later -----

What were Gabriel's (I'm not going to call him 'Trickster' anymore.....Gabriel is more epic) exact words about his fall from Heaven? I forgot.

dont remember his exact rule but he said something like "i left heaven through some sort of witness protection and got plastic surgey and carved my little corner of the world"

----- Added 5 Minutes later -----

No. It was Gabriel all along. He said: "Why do you think I've always taken such interest in you?"



"My own private witness protection. I skipped out of Heaven, had a face transplant, carved up my own little corner of the world. 'til you two screw it all up."

ya thats it

----- Added 7 Minutes later -----

ok i just joined forum just for this, i was a bit confused as well after watching the show. But i gotta say one thing, so i can relieve you all of your headaches . This is the correct thing. Gabriel is not the trickster, he is only disguised as the trickster because he wanted to trick sam and dean to believe that the trickster from (tall tales/mystery spot) was actually there and causing all this weird things going on, such as the hulk crap -lol! He wanted to trick them into saying yes to Michael and Lucifer, because they believed if they said yes, it was just a trick, and it wouldn't be like actually say yes to the 2 arch angels! Sam and Dean thought it would just be like on tv, and if they said yes, they would just see what happened! But apparently it was just a trick! It hard to understand what i am trying to say.

Gabriel can take the form of the trickster or anybody else! Just like Lucifer did, when he was seeking for his vessel, and he turned into that guys dead wife! And after he turned into Jessica Sam's dead girlfriend or finance or w.e, i forgot ! Gabriel came down after the Apocalypse disguised as the trickster to trick Sam and Dean into accepting their destiny!

This is what i believe because of this!

Season 5, Episode 8 – Aired: 11/5/2009
Changing Channels

Dean and Sam find themselves mystically trapped in a series of real-life "TV shows" and there appears to be no escape. They believe their old enemy the Trickster is responsible, but discover someone or something else is involved.



*note - The last sentence up there ^!

welcome to the site

i think gabriel was the trickster everytime we saw him. im thinking he just became a trickster to throw everyone else so dont think he took the image of the trickster we have seen in the past. i think that last line was a bit misleading saying the trickster had nothing to do with it and it was something else. while it was a trickster it was still the same being we always believed to be the trickster.

[LadyH]

i think in tall tales he didnt know them until they tried to stop them and then when they left he may have done some research and learned sam was a chosen child. then in mystery spot he may have tried to prevent sam from going down a dark path cause he didnt want sam to release lucifer but now since everything has played off he had to do something to force them to end the war all together.

i think gabriel was the trickster everytime we saw him. im thinking he just became a trickster to throw everyone else so dont think he took the image of the trickster we have seen in the past. i think that last line was a bit misleading saying the trickster had nothing to do with it and it was something else. while it was a trickster it was still the same being we always believed to be the trickster.

IA. He admitted he ran away when the angels started to turn on each other. We don't know when that happened, but I think it was a long time ago, when God disappeared. I think he has been playing "Trickster" for a long time, without any contact with other angels. But it wasn't until after he ran into Sam & Dean(Tall Tales) that he learned about YED's plan to free Lucifer and tried to stop it in his own way(Mystery Spot).

Yeah, exactly. They are saying while there are tricksters out there, this particular trickster was always actually Gabriel. There was no taking over of bodies or anything like that. As unsatisfying as some of the retcons maybe, they can explain them away given Gabriel's power to do just about anything.

IA. The only thing I'm not certain is whether or not this was a retcon. I mean, Kripke planned most of the plots far ahead, didn't he? Maybe he always planned for the Trickster to be Gabriel. We will have to wait for an interview to know for certain.

[Carnagefan88]

So i have a question was the trickster Gabriel The Whole time? since season 2?

[Theshadow129x]

yep. this whole time it was him. So awesome

[T. Stamp]

inconsistency

Has anyone ever heard of Holy Oil before? Do we know exactly what that does? Does it just trap an angel or does it trap him and take away his powers?

Gabriel was definitely trapped. Sam, Dean and Gabriel were in Gabriel's illusion when the fire was lit. If it took away Gabriel's powers, the illusion should have disappeared on it's own as soon as the fire circle was complete. That didn't happen. Gabriel made the choice to remove the illusion. So am I to believe an Archangel can't remotely turn on the sprinklers?

As an aside, I thought it was totally out of character for the Archangel Gabriel to be portrayed as a coward. Dean basically called him a p*%%y.

[Lexgirl33]

The only thing we have learned is that Cas went to Jerusalem to get it.

As for the powers thing, I have no idea why some powers work in the circle and the others don't.

[tgf5]

Another thing--the Trickster said that the thing that attracted him to the Winchesters was how their family situation so closely parallels his (the Trickster's) family situation. But the events in season 2 (in Tall Tales) where the Winchesters "tricked" him & killed a "copy" of him is what really got him on the Winchesters' trail. And this was way before any seals were broken. So I thought this was another thing that didn't really jive with past events. The same is true about Mystery Spot. If someone wants to say the events of Mystery Spot are what got him interested in the Winchesters, then those events too were before the breaking of the seals and had nothing to do with Sam & Dean saying yes to their respective angels.

Well Angels can "see" into the future, so I think it all works out.

[superhippie2000]

So i have a question was the trickster Gabriel The Whole time? since season 2?

ya i believe so but he probably never considered himself anything but a trickster till this episode where he had to admit that he was an angel.

----- Added 1 Minutes later -----

The only thing we have learned is that Cas went to Jerusalem to get it.

As for the powers thing, I have no idea why some powers work in the circle and the others don't.

think gabriel is like the most powerful angel. perhaps the only one more powerful is micheal. wasnt gabriel like one of the top angels where he was the one chosen to give the message to mary about jesus? dont think god would just send anyone to do that.

----- Added 6 Minutes later -----

Has anyone ever heard of Holy Oil before? Do we know exactly what that does? Does it just trap an angel or does it trap him and take away his powers?

Gabriel was definitely trapped. Sam, Dean and Gabriel were in Gabriel's illusion when the fire was lit. If it took away Gabriel's powers, the illusion should have disappeared on it's own as soon as the fire circle was complete. That didn't happen. Gabriel made the choice to remove the illusion. So am I to believe an Archangel can't remotely turn on the sprinklers?

As an aside, I thought it was totally out of character for the Archangel Gabriel to be portrayed as a coward. Dean basically called him a p*%%y.

holy oil is like the oil when the hebrews were being attacked and lost all their oil to make light and they only had a little bit but that little bit lasted for 8 days (which is the reason for hanuka) s im guessing thats the same holy oil that cas retrieved. well obviously not the same but he got it from the holy land that all that stuff happened at.


maybe he can use his powers only to do things that dont consist of releasing him. or he didnt notice the sprinkler above his head until dean pulled the alarm. or he can only undo things but cant create things.

----- Added 10 Minutes later -----

IA. He admitted he ran away when the angels started to turn on each other. We don't know when that happened, but I think it was a long time ago, when God disappeared. I think he has been playing "Trickster" for a long time, without any contact with other angels. But it wasn't until after he ran into Sam & Dean(Tall Tales) that he learned about YED's plan to free Lucifer and tried to stop it in his own way(Mystery Spot).



IA. The only thing I'm not certain is whether or not this was a retcon. I mean, Kripke planned most of the plots far ahead, didn't he? Maybe he always planned for the Trickster to be Gabriel. We will have to wait for an interview to know for certain.

i think when he started he never even had a plan for angels to come on the show. think he mentioned that once not sure but i guess he figured since we all love the trickster and wanted to see him agian and that we would need a reason for his return he decided why not make him an angel. also being powerful and a "god" it will still fit his character. angels are god like with what they can do so it works. i dont think it changes the character at all just makes him much cooler and allows for us to maybe see him agian in a future episode.

[defga]

how I see it is Gabriel molded his form to be perceived as a trickster by pretty much anybody but an angel. He even took on the personality of a trickster (ie giving people their just desserts and killing them with giant Hulks and crocodiles). The other angels so far are angels covered in human flesh; maybe he's an angel covered in some trickster's flesh

[LoneStar1836]

Meh. I don't like the idea that the Trickster wasn't really the Trickster all this time. He was unique, and I don't like the idea that this erases that about him. And I don't think Kripke had this planned from the start, but they were able to write it and make it fit. I just don't have to like it....