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  • #61
    I don't think it was a bad episode. It's just after Rabid, we had high expectations. And I think that the Clois scenes were great!!!!

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    • #62
      I liked Clark's scenes alone and with most of the cast, he seemed stronger, but it seemed to me to lack something overall. It was probably the clois stuff. Clark wasn't really protecting her at any point, he was being nasty. Puppy eyes at the end don't really make up for that. I honestly can't see why Lois would still want him after that. It comes off a bit pathetic, which I'm sick of seeing with American potrayals of women on tv/films. Although, to be fair, can't see what Clark sees in her, it's like her character shifts from ballsy - how she used to be in previous seasons - to uncomfortably corny at a moment's notice. The writing of her 'soft' side is kinda cringeworthy. Who does that? I don't really believe in her as a character anymore.

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      • #63
        I feel the same as few others, loved the episode esp the action scene at the start, Clois at the start, Ollie/Tess, Ollie/Toyman, Ollie/Clark

        but Clois from when Clark stands up Lois felt off, like how she just left AOC for example, IDK maybe it was just because I was disappointed how the ''date'' turned out but it felt forced for me, like it didn't flow very well.

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        • #64
          I loved Clark the most in this episode. Lois was really good although I felt something was a bit off too. I loved the DP scenes the best. I had to keep rewinding some parts to see what I missed because it felt kinda jumpy. Like what did Chloe see when she walked in Lois's apartment that was so strange, I think the scene would have worked better if they were already in the room together talking and then we joined them. I also didn't like the scene with the monster truck and her ranting at Clark. The scene inside the AoC was beautiful but then Lois just disappears. The ending had me loving Clark though, it was just the best!

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          • #65
            It was a great episode and had this been last season, would have been one of the best! But as everyone else said, from the moment Clark asked Lois to go to the Monster Truck Show until she left the AoC, that part of the episode seemed unbalanced to me as far as the Clois relationship went. The end made a very nice recovery though, with their "theoretical" discussion about not standing up dates in the future. I also liked that Clark apologized for doing it. That went a long way to putting a little sauve on the wounds he caused.

            I did think that the arrival at the AoS in a Monster Truck was a little over the top though. It was probably meant as humor but I found it silly. I guess it's to show that she went, got frustrated that Clark wasn't there and hijacked some driver to take her to the club, stopping to pick up an evening gown on the way. I truly would have preferred her arriving in a taxi or her own vehicle.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by RaniaLovesClois
              I don't think it was a bad episode. It's just after Rabid, we had high expectations. And I think that the Clois scenes were great!!!!
              I don't buy this type of mentality and it's more of an excuse than anything else. If an episode is solid, it will stand against any episode. This episode wasn't solid. It was all over the place and it was dull. I would have felt the same way if I would have seen it before or after Rabid.

              ----- Added 3 Minutes later -----

              Originally posted by Theshadow129x
              i dont get why everyone has a problem with this episode. If you wanted an episode all about Lois and Clark you are watching the wrong show. their relationship has to take a back seat at some point. Gosh.
              Well it would help if you wouldn't generalize everyone that wasn't happy with the episode to feel that way because of the lack of Clois, which by the way, there wasn't. There were at least 5 good Clois scenes, so I dont' see how anyone could be complaining that Clois took a back seat. It was there, the problem was that it was dull. The entire episode was painfully dull and I waited for it to pick up and it never did.
              Last edited by JennyMoon; 10-17-2009, 06:51 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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              • #67
                Originally posted by JennyMoon
                I don't buy this type of mentality and it's more of an excuse than anything else. If an episode is solid, it will stand against any episode. This episode wasn't solid. It was all over the place and it was dull. I would have felt the same way if I would have seen it before or after Rabid.
                well, I can see how some can feel that way, I was excited after Commited last year for Identity and after first rewatching and expecting tons of Clois, i felt "meh", but then I rewatched it and realized it was really good episode, and now its my top s8 episode. Echo most likely wont be, because there was something missing for me, but i do think there are people who feel that way.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by Exedore
                  The characterization and dialogue were excellent. I like how the training was handled this episode. For once Oliver wasn't as annoying as he usually is. The problem was the Toyman plot which wasn't as exciting as it could have been. Too little screentime was allotted to the Oliver hostage situation. The presence of an android Toyman at the scene made no sense. Now if Clark had tracked him to his hideout only to find it was the android there and the real Toyman was hiding elsewhere or something; that would have been easier to swallow. Plus this would have been excellent opportunity to take Clark closer to the Zod plot by making him hear the thoughts of either Zod or one of his soldiers. Alas, they are keeping Clark far away from the main plot of the season, as usual. Nah, Clark stealing donuts is what they are interested in showing.
                  The android was the timer... like in the beginning it was in the mask. I loved that Clark figured it out on his own. I actually didn't til he burned the face off... I even screamed "CLARK WHAT ARE YOU DOING?!" lol...

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                  • #69
                    I just got finished watching Echo again, and it was much better after a second look. It did jump around a bit but not so much that I would consider it a bad episode.

                    The closing shot with Lois and Clark was really, really dare I say Iconic.

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                    • #70
                      I thought BQM did a stellar job with the writing...I think this was brought up the last time we were discussing Mr. Miller's work but I'm going to put my 2 cents worth in again.

                      There is a writing room where the writers get together to decide what they want to see in the episode. There is a board on the wall in which the scenes are divided up in sections and someone writes input from all the writers present. After they have a finished episode on the board, the writer or writers that are in charge of the episode write the script and re-writes the script till it is approved by the Powers that Be. If you see a scene in the episode that you like or dislike, it isn't necessarily the fault of the writer in charge of the episode. BQM wrote the script from the ideas of half a dozen or more people. There are examples of this from the Smallville season DVDs.

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                      • #71
                        I like it more than I liked Bulletproof, which I also liked and not many others seemed too. BQM has only written a few episodes, some of which are obviously going to be better than others.

                        The writing was solid, humourous, subtle and very very Supermanish. That is what I expect from BQM, and so no, I wasn't dissapointed.

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                        • #72
                          I think that Echo probably comes across as "meh" to some people because it neither has the out-and-out action of Rabid, nor the laugh-out-loud comedy of previous BQM stories of Committed and Hex. Instead, we got a relatively low-key character piece with easily the best dialogue and characterisation of the season. Not a lot of excitement there, but unlike, for example Metallo, I didn't find myself cringing every so often as a potentially great scene was spoiled by clunky writing.

                          And I don't get this whole "what's wrong with Lois" vibe that crops up in several posts, because the Lois that I saw in Echo is the same one that was in Instinct, Committed, Identity, Bride, etc. The difference is that we actually hear her thoughts, which are quite different from what comes out of her mouth. For example, in Identity, when she tells Clark that "when a guy likes a girl, he asks her out", she is clearly thinking "come on, take the hint, ask me out", but Clark is to stupid to notice (and remember, Clark gets his "mind-reading" power in Echo because Jor-El thinks that he lacks perception with regard to other people's behaviour). I see people describing Lois as "needy", but let's face it, she is in love with Clark, but isn't sure what his feelings are. If you, gentle reader, had fallen for someone, might not your thoughts about the object of your affections be a mixture of "wow, aren't you wonderful" and a desperate desire that they would give you a sign that they loved you back? Besides, Lois has now reached a point that she has never got to with her other relationships - she has finally realised that she wants to properly share her life with another person. Her "Clark and Lois against the world" and "maybe I can share the load" statements are significant because they show that she may finally be ready for a lasting relationship. Previously, she has been so fiercely independant and self-sufficient that there hasn't been really been room for someone else in her life. Besides, she has hidden behind her "ballsyness" because the men in her life have always let her down to some extent. With Clark, she is prepared to drop her guard and admit that she needs him (though not to his face, of course), but that means wanting him to need her. However, this is not "being needy" in the pejorative sense: Lois isn't going to constantly hassle Clark to get him to ask her out or find out his true feelings. Remember, she might have secretly wanted him to take her to the monster truck rally, but if he hadn't heard her thoughts, she would have let it go rather than nag him about it. So I think that this part of the story (which, after all, was basically a rip-off of What Women Want) has gotten an unjustly bad rap in some quarters.

                          In climax of the play The Rise and Fall of Little Voice, the central character of LV finally confronts her loud-mouthed mother Mari. Referring to her mother's constant criticism of her late father, LV remarks that her dad may have been quiet, but "he shone with fine lights". Similarly, Echo may have been a quieter, less showy episode than its predecessors, but it contained writing and performances that equally "shone with fine lights" compared to those earlier stories.
                          Last edited by newbaggy; 10-17-2009, 09:48 AM.

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by JennyMoon
                            Well it would help if you wouldn't generalize everyone that wasn't happy with the episode to feel that way because of the lack of Clois, which by the way, there wasn't. There were at least 5 good Clois scenes, so I dont' see how anyone could be complaining that Clois took a back seat. It was there, the problem was that it was dull. The entire episode was painfully dull and I waited for it to pick up and it never did.
                            Thank you!

                            When it cames down it, for me this episode was lackluster. Something was off. Call it dialouge, direction, etc but it just wasn't as good as his previous material. I've been one of BQM's biggest defenders here. I still consider him one of the best writers, and the best one for Clark. He did a great job with him last night, as he has done with Committed, Bulletproof and Hex. What seperates this episode from the others is that it simply did not engage me. I was waiting for scenes to hurry up so we can get to the next bit and that included several Clois scenes. There I said it. It has nothing to do with the lack of Clois because they got a bulk of screen time last night. The episode on a whole did not keep my interest. Don't get me wrong, it wasn't a awful episode but like other said 'meh'. Definatly the weakest so far. While he wrote Clark great and therefore deserves some credit, I only wished the episode ticked all the boxes in the way Committed, Hex and Bulletproof did. Those episodes didn't just make Clark look great, they were genuinely interesting episodes and the dialouge I felt was far more sharper and funnier.

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by newbaggy
                              I think that Echo probably comes across as "meh" to some people because it neither has the out-and-out action of Rabid, nor the laugh-out-loud comedy of previous BQM stories of Committed and Hex. Instead, we got a relatively low-key character piece with easily the best dialogue and characterisation of the season. Not a lot of excitement there, but unlike, for example Metallo, I didn't find myself cringing every so often as a potentially great scene was spoiled by clunky writing.

                              And I don't get this whole "what's wrong with Lois" vibe that crops up in several posts, because the Lois that I saw in Echo is the same one that was in Instinct, Committed, Identity, Bride, etc. The difference is that we actually hear her thoughts, which are quite different from what comes out of her mouth. For example, in Identity, when she tells Clark that "when a guy likes a girl, he asks her out", she is clearly thinking "come on, take the hint, ask me out", but Clark is to stupid to notice (and remember, Clark gets his "mind-reading" power in Echo because Jor-El thinks that he lacks perception with regard to other people's behaviour). I see people describing Lois as "needy", but let's face it, she is in love with Clark, but isn't sure what his feelings are. If you, gentle reader, had fallen for someone, might not your thoughts about the object of your affections be a mixture of "wow, aren't you wonderful" and a desperate desire that they would give you a sign that they loved you back? Besides, Lois has now reached a point that she has never got to with her other relationships - she has finally realised that she wants to properly share her life with another person. Her "Clark and Lois against the world" and "maybe I can share the load" statements are significant because they show that she may finally be ready for a lasting relationship. Previously, she has been so fiercely independant and self-sufficient that there hasn't been really been room for someone else in her life. Besides, she has hidden behind her "ballsyness" because the men in her life have always let her down to some extent. With Clark, she is prepared to drop her guard and admit that she needs him (though not to his face, of course), but that means wanting him to need her. However, this is not "being needy" in the pejorative sense: Lois isn't going to constantly hassle Clark to get him to ask her out or find out his true feelings. Remember, she might have secretly wanted him to take her to the monster truck rally, but if he hadn't heard her thoughts, she would have let it go rather than nag him about it. So I think that this part of the story (which, after all, was basically a rip-off of What Women Want) has gotten an unjustly bad rap in some quarters.

                              In climax of the play The Rise and Fall of Little Voice, the central character of LV finally confronts her loud-mouthed mother Mari. Referring to her mother's constant criticism of her late father, LV remarks that her dad may have been quiet, but "he shone with fine lights". Similarly, Echo may have been a quieter, less showy episode than its predecessors, but it contained writing and performances that equally "shone with fine lights" compared to those earlier stories.

                              The problem with all this is, that we *keep* seeing and hearing about Lois' feelings/needs etc...what about Clark/Blur? This has led to the possibility that there is a hint of a one-sided dynamic, which would have been fine if the conventional triangle was in place as both are then essentially chasing each other, but this isn't the case. Lois clearly has more well-developed/established feelings for Clark *and* the Blur than either of them has for her. It's a bit sad - and I mean that in a sincere way, I'm a bit sad for her. In the same way as I was sad for Chloe having stronger feelings for Clark than he apparently had for her. I don't really like seeing strong women waste themselves on an inadequate romantic situation.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Tasji
                                The problem with all this is, that we *keep* seeing and hearing about Lois' feelings/needs etc...what about Clark/Blur? This has led to the possibility that there is a hint of a one-sided dynamic, which would have been fine if the conventional triangle was in place as both are then essentially chasing each other, but this isn't the case. Lois clearly has more well-developed/established feelings for Clark *and* the Blur than either of them has for her. It's a bit sad - and I mean that in a sincere way, I'm a bit sad for her. In the same way as I was sad for Chloe having stronger feelings for Clark than he apparently had for her. I don't really like seeing strong women waste themselves on an inadequate romantic situation.
                                Firstly, this is different from Clark/Chloe in that, although there was a brief romance, Clark made it pretty clear that they were just friends even though Chloe still had romantic feelings for him (see "Devoted"). With Clark and Lois, yes, this is different from previous versions of Clois in that Lois develops feelings for Clark first (Clark is still to some degree hung-up on Lana). However, this season, it has become increasingly clear that Clark now has feelings for Lois, but doesn't know how to tell her. After all, wouldn't you be afraid to tell Lois Lane you loved her if you weren't sure how she felt about you? Rejection, Lane-style, is almost certainly not for the faint-hearted! So, Clark needs an "in", to get him to make the first move (because Lois - even if Clark makes her go weak at the knees - is strong enough to wait for that), hence the unorthodox way of finding out if he has a chance with her. However, because of the Toyman, he blows his chance. But that "hypothetically speaking" conversation at the end of the episode isn't just Clark's way of apologising and finding out if Lois holds a grudge - he was clearly trying to find out if he still had a chance with her in the future. The "inadequecy" at this stage is not one-sided: both Clark and Lois are wondering whether there will be another (proper) date, but both are cautious because they don't want to get hurt.

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