#2-3 "Belle Chose"

[KSiteTV]

Still not sure people are visiting here on show nights, but in case... here's a thread for discussing the 10/9/09 episode!

[Vergon6]

Sorry, I forgot to post in here. Good episode. Echo is continuing to remember her imprints...not a good thing with that serial killer. Looks like Summer Glau is coming soon.

[darkphoenix21]

Why is it now that the season has begun. Last time it took 5 episodes, now 3 episodes. If we get a 3rd season will it actually start from the first episode.

Anyway, I really like the episode. It wasn't Echo-centric, but I think it works will like this when its just the beginning of the season. I'm impressed with these actors because they're on a show where every week they have to be someone different. I'm happy that this week we focused on Victor. It was a bit creepy that he had to be imprinted with a homicidal manic personality. It was hilarious when they're imprints got scrabbled. I was LMAO at the night club scene.

I can't wait to see the origin story of Sierra and than the following week we get to see Summer Glau come into the scene...Please let her character be someone that isn't robotic.

[nicmar]

This episode was not that good in fact it was poor, maybe the worst since stage fright last year. I will make my weekly statement that there was no progress to the overall story, and we had yet another engagement of the week that was silly on both fronts.

The episode opens with Ballard playing fish out of water again, which was not anything new but for some reason it grated, and then when he goes into his speach about how a "romantic" engagement was just Echo being pimped out it kind of underlined the seedyness of the show. Also we got to see more of the prep that goes into the dolls make overs but the sterotypical fasion guru was not in any way amussing.

Also since when can college professors afford the monitary price or have the connections for the Dollhouse. Also it seems like he could have had any number of hookers play a naughty school girl or co-ed as the case may be and not pay a million dollars for it( which is the price per engagement) accourding to season 1.

This week we get more of humanizing Topher please make up your minds is he a misunderdstood geek or a sociopath seeing as we have seen both this year. The sceens with Ballard interrogating our killer were probably the best part of the show and for the first time I got the sense that he was actually remotely good at his job. However you really left the guy unguarded really a serial killer? Then the big revilation that the accident happened near the were he was keeping the women duh. But the bigger question was why even imprint him in the first place Topher told you he was a serial killer and the disscussion with his uncle was about finding the women so he could buy off the women who were kidnapped which was also far beyond the relm of pluasibility no one is going to take a check and say no I was not kidnapped druged and posed then watched someone else have their head caved in.

The conclusion of the episode was weak as well first I saw the imprint switich comming a mile away because god forbid Echo does not have a glitch in an episode. Also I think it would have been better to keep Eliza out of the spotlight for once. the last sceen with Echo repeating somthing for her last imprint we have seen that 10 times already, also she seems to have regressed from knowing that she had been all of the personalities that had come before to repeating a one phrase. I know that is was meant to be creepy, but it did not work

Next episode looks intresting but I am starting to wonder if this pattern of one step foward two steeps back will ever end.

[hansioux]

However you really left the guy unguarded really a serial killer?

Well, they did not expect Saul Tigh would kill his physical nephew just to bust out his nephew's brain dump.

Anyway, I agree the plot is moving a bit slow. And Dollhouse is no BSG or TSCC. But I think the premise of the show is setup for more independent episodes. I am very interested to see where Whisky went. Maybe that'd be the next plot development. It doesn't always has to be Echo moving the plot arc.

[actaeon]

This episode wasn't quite up to the standard set by the previous two this season, but I still call it brilliant. This is IMO simply the best thing on television.

What I love about this show is how amoral these people are. Not immoral, amoral. Morality comes a distant third in their lives; after business acumen (Adele) and technical prowess (Topher). And I think the point of the show-- and what makes it brilliant, revolutionary, and thought provoking-- is that it raises the question, are we as moral as we'd like to think we are? Looking at ourselves as individuals, looking at our institutions, are we all that different from Topher or Adele?

In "Temptations", their amorality gets tested. Turns out, they are willing to "do the right thing"... as long as it isn't likely to cost them anything. Sure, they'll try to stop a serial killer. They've got the materials and the resources at hand-- a doll and a handler who happens to be ex-FBI-- and they're willing to spend a little time on the project, free, gratis, and without pay.

It all goes horribly and somewhat comically wrong.

And in the end, the sick-o kidnapper gets rough justice, Dollhouse-style. He won't be dreaming anymore...

Adele, Topher and crew see themselves as good guys. We don't see them that way, of course. But we see ourselves as good guys... at least, I think of myself as a good guy. Maybe, just maybe, I'm as deluded as they are...

[kernel_thai]

I actually liked this better than the first two. I liked Victor as the serial killer and I liked the way the tech was used for something that made sense. (dumping the comatose killer into Victor so he could be interrogated) Unfortunately the promising beginning didnt go anywhere. I did think Victor as Kiki was funny.

I see this extremely exclusive and expensive service can now be afforded by a college professor. Maybe it was coupon day.

Michael Hogan was totally wasted. The idea that Hogan's character could just walk out with an active completely contradicts several previous shows detailing Dollhouse security.

Glitchy Cameron ... oops ... Echo has become a major theme ... its already been establish she remembers other imprints. The interesting question is what was she imprinted as when she was warning the captives to kill her? Not Kiki. She's searching for Caroline so it wasnt her. She wasnt in her doll state or she likely would have rolled up into a ball. She must have been in help Ballard mode, whatever state thats supposed to be.

[darkphoenix21]

It shaping up to be a decent series. They just need to get on with the major story arc and not rely on filler episodes/ episodes that have no real purpose to catch the audience's attention. Each episode should be like a mini movie event. It's seems that the series will once again begin several episodes later into the season. I'm looking forward to the orgin story of Sierra and the introduction of Summer Glua's character afterward.

[Hopefulsuicide]

I breathed a sigh of relief after this episode, because I was beginning to wonder if the show was going down hill... but it's okay! We're back on form.

I think I just prefer it when another doll is involved, and I genuinely loved Victor in this episode. It was just so well pulled off.

Plus, Boyd was handling Echo again I feel like we need to rebuild that connection... not much is done with Boyd. TBH not much is done with any of them. In terms of characterisation (which Joss is usually amazing at) i'm not really feeling it for Boyd, Sierra or Victor. We had a bit of Topher (the birthday friend doll) and Adele (victors engagements) but not enough to feel like I know these people well.

P.s. I don't in any way understand how they did that remote wipe/exchange...

This episode was not that good in fact it was poor, maybe the worst since stage fright last year. .

Nothing could ever come close to that...

Also since when can college professors afford the monitary price or have the connections for the Dollhouse. Also it seems like he could have had any number of hookers play a naughty school girl or co-ed as the case may be and not pay a million dollars for it( which is the price per engagement) accourding to season 1. .

The money thing I did think about, but who's to say he wasn't something else before he was a proffesor. There could be any number of reasons why he has money/connections.

As for your second statement, I think your missing the entire point of the Dollhouse... it's supposed to be worth paying for because it's genuine, not pretend.

This week we get more of humanizing Topher please make up your minds is he a misunderdstood geek or a sociopath seeing as we have seen both this year..

When have we seen him as a sociopath? I think it's fairly clear he is just a man who sees shades of grey but doesn't think too much about it because he aspires to do 'great' things.

The sceens with Ballard interrogating our killer were probably the best part of the show and for the first time I got the sense that he was actually remotely good at his job..

I thought that too

Then the big revilation that the accident happened near the were he was keeping the women duh..

Why duh? He could have been anywhere in town... it was just a good guess from Ballard, and a lucky one at that.

But the bigger question was why even imprint him in the first place Topher told you he was a serial killer and the disscussion with his uncle was about finding the women so he could buy off the women who were kidnapped which was also far beyond the relm of pluasibility no one is going to take a check and say no I was not kidnapped druged and
posed then watched someone else have their head caved in. .

He was imprinted so they could find the women before they starved to death. I think that had a point too it.

And plenty of people accept bribes, even victims. Money makes the pain easier. I personally wouldnt accept the bribe... but then i suppose everyone has there price dont they.

The conclusion of the episode was weak as well first I saw the imprint switich comming a mile away because god forbid Echo does not have a glitch in an episode. .

Yup, that's getting annoying

Also I think it would have been better to keep Eliza out of the spotlight for once. the last sceen with Echo repeating somthing for her last imprint we have seen that 10 times already, also she seems to have regressed from knowing that she had been all of the personalities that had come before to repeating a one phrase. I know that is was meant to be creepy, but it did not work.

It so wasn't neccesary... and kinda didn't make sense... cause Echo didn't like the man so why would she be using his saying like that...

And did Ballard kill that guy? I wasn't quite sure of that...

[nicmar]

Couple of things First I understand the point of the Dollhouse that it provides a unique experience but this one is so easily replicated it just seemed out of place, I get people who want the perfect woman or one more day with a dead loved one, but as I said horny co-ed their is a fair chance he could find that on his own.

Topher has up until recently been portraied as someone with out a moral center, he is not evil per say but he has no issues erasing or imprinting personalities. He never viewed the actives as people just things for him to reprogram like a computer. In fact in the episode they even make a joke that the guy must be pretty bad if Topher has a moral objection

The reason I said Duh is because if a person had abducted people and was holding them hostage there is a good chance that they are not going to leave the victums for too long so they would not go that far to prevent an escape attempt, even with the drugs. Also he was already injured before the accident another thing that pointed to the fact that he could not have made it too far form his point of origin.It seemed obvious to me maybe not as much to others, Also it takes days for people to starve to death I honstly think that they would have figured out that he was not comming back before that.

Finally yes your right that all kinds of people take payoffs but usally not after the ordeal that the women in the show went through, it was seemed far to elaberate and trumatic to just by off.

[Hopefulsuicide]

Couple of things First I understand the point of the Dollhouse that it provides a unique experience but this one is so easily replicated it just seemed out of place, I get people who want the perfect woman or one more day with a dead loved one, but as I said horny co-ed their is a fair chance he could find that on his own.

The reason I said Duh is because if a person had abducted people and was holding them hostage there is a good chance that they are not going to leave the victums for too long so they would not go that far. It seemed obvious to me maybe not as much to others, Also it takes days for people to starve to death I honstly think that they would have figured out that he was not comming back before that.

Finally yes your right that all kinds of people take payoffs but usally not after the ordeal that the women in the show went through, it was seemed far to elaberate and trumatic to just by off.

Does happen though, but I know what you mean... I couldn't imagine it myself.

I know it takes days to starve to death, but who knows how long he would have been in that coma for... or if he'd ever come out. he had them locked up... they could have starved to death.

And yeah, you would think the paranoia of a killer would keep him close to the girls, but you never know lol. Besides I didn't think they made that big a deal out of it for it too seem like a big revelation.

----- Added 1 Minutes later -----

Still not sure people are visiting here on show nights, but in case... here's a thread for discussing the 10/9/09 episode!

Everywhere else I look has this eppies name down as 'Belle Chose'...

[Xanderman]

Topher: "This is a brain. A healthy brain. Frankly, an overly smart brain. It's my brain!"

Eliza plays a great ditz. This was hilarious from her:

Echo: "I probably never should've taken this course to begin with, but I figured it was Med-Evil Lit, not Advanced Evil--how hard could it be. So I skipped Intro to Evil or whatever, but--"

Professor Horny: "It's Middle English."

Echo: "Right, like Hobbits or something."

The entire skit was funny. Truly the role Eliza was born to play!

This was a great episode, both for its writing and its directing. A Tim Minear/David Solomon combo apparently, so double the experience to back it. Big plot hole though as Kernel mentioned, that the old man could just walk out with his doll-son. Once again (this has come up before last season), where's the security? And the answer of course is, it doesn't matter. heh j/k Another plot hole is how the professor could afford to use a doll, as Nicmar and Kernel pointed out above.

Everywhere else I look has this eppies name down as 'Belle Chose'...

I was going to bring up the same thing.

The money thing I did think about, but who's to say he wasn't something else before he was a proffesor. There could be any number of reasons why he has money/connections.

Sure, but if they don't explain it that way or shed light on it as such, it's not a natural assumption to make. The more natural assumption is that he in fact shouldn't be able to afford it or have the required connections to rent a doll. A decent explanation was definitely warranted here, I think.

But anyway, I also loved the episode. Easily the best of the season so far. Unlike some here I didn't mind at all that it wasn't an "arc" episode, since I hate the direction they're apparently taking it (ie. Epitaph One). Or perhaps more accurately, I hate the "knowing" ahead of time. Ruins things for me. This isn't Terminator afterall (as I've said before). Taking away the "mystery" part of Dollhouse's ultimate path or end unfortunately really hurts the experience. So I'm all for more standalones/"fillers"--keep 'em coming.

10/10

[hansioux]

What I love about this show is how amoral these people are. Not immoral, amoral. Morality comes a distant third in their lives....

Adele, Topher and crew see themselves as good guys. We don't see them that way, of course. But we see ourselves as good guys... at least, I think of myself as a good guy. Maybe, just maybe, I'm as deluded as they are...

I love this discussion, and this kind of discussion shows me that Dollhouse is a great scifi story. Scifi is supposed to be thought provoking and Dollhouse is doing it. Even on an episode less liked by most is deep enough to generate great dialogue.

Besides, how can you fault an episode when there are lines such as "Topher is ethical issues. Topher!".

I mean that's just gold.

[kernel_thai]

The whole professor scenario was ridiculous. Other than the money angle, I would have loved to have seen the imprint Topher used to create Kiki. Lot's of stupid and likes to dance. The purpose of the tech is to create the perfect person for the situation. All Kiki needed to bring to the table was horny. Also, there is the secrecy aspect. Dollhouses have to be very selective about clients because the whole operation is illegal. Why would they risk dealing with a middle income professor with a mundane sex fantasy? Its Effect and Cause writing (yes I made that up!!!) U see it a lot. The come up with a cool idea (ditsy college student Echo gets an F or Echo marries an arms dealer to help Ballard catch him, etc.) and then try and write something to realize that end. Maybe I should have called it The Means Justifies the End.

[hansioux]

I think what people want to see is more episodes of Actives doing what they are supposed to do and accomplishing important tasks. Like in season 1 when Echo helped rescue the little girl. So that we don't get a sense of Dollhouse tech is not working and it's stupid. More of actives accomplishing stuff even beyond their programmed abilities will make the Echo glitch more significant.