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They completely butchered the Mythos

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Liquid-Prince
    I only said who cares because I'm tired of people complaining and saying that it's been butchered. If this story being used in Smallville right now was being released in the newest Superman comics, no one would say anything. But Oh know Smallville is always butchering things...
    I see your point to a degree. But, there's a lot of superman fans that hang around hoping to see that iconic superman moment, it is a superman/Clark Kent story at this point and time so I can't blame people for pointing it out. This will go on for the entire series and even after, that's what occurs when you redo a classic. It will always be compared to the counterpart. Also, most comic book fans who watch the show, probably the most loyal base want to see the comic book come to life, as well respected, if PS3 is going to use the characters, it wouldn't hurt to learn about who you're writing about.

    Personally, I just think it was a badly written episode for the most part. I don't plan on holding it against them. It's like hit or miss with Smallville.

    But the point with it not being up to par with the mythos, I think the biggest gripe is how the story was handled and even non-mythos sticklers found fault.

    The point is that it's not apart of the story. If's are theory and in no way accurate. When current mythos changes drastically from the previous, there are vast complaints about how the story is being handled, even in the comics. People complained about superman being too weak, vulnerable to magic and what not, but that has change. There were rumors about Chloe being introduced into the comics, fans had a fit. Anything detering to drastic from the norm they will find fault, especially OCC that's why you'll never see it in the comics. If they suddenly make superman bad in the comic, there would be complaints. But I agree with Green Arrow storyline being interesting. That's in the interest of story-telling, and my personal opinion.
    Last edited by Dominicus; 05-12-2009, 09:51 PM.

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    • #32
      I like this season much better than the last 4 seasons. I know Ollie is the womanizer, but he doesn't womanize while he's in the middle of a mission.

      I also don't think Ollie should be on the show as much as he has. 1-2 appearances per season maxiumum is all he should have. They need to make the show more about Clark.

      This episode tried to do too much. I think they wasted a lot of time this season with episodes like Toxic, Power, Requiem, Eternal & Beast. Even Hex, as nice as it was to see Zatanna, it didn't really do too much for the big picture.

      I'm very much against killing off characters who are supposed to be in Superman's future. I have no problem if they do things their own way, as long as their way is logical & keeps all future characters in the condition they should be in. What they did with Lana in Power & Requiem was beyond disgusting. I also can't stand what they did to their very own Smallville mythos that was created since the Pilot. That was really butchered. In the comics, retcons were at least explained by various Crises, but we got no such explanation here. And I'm one who says that there are things you can do in the comics that you can't do on TV. Retcons should be one of them. The comics have been going on for much longer (70 years), so every now & then they mix things up to keep things fresh. This show has been going on for a fraction of the time & had no need for retcons.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Liquid-Prince
        WHO CARES? If they had just done everything Smallville has done in a comic reiteration and retconned the story starting anew, nobody would say anything. This is the new continuity, which just uses the mythology as a basis. It is not copying them.

        Like I said, if this story Smallville has was part of a new comic arc, no on would be complaining...
        If you honestly believe this, then you should check out the DC boards regarding every retcon in DC history. Yes, people would still complain if crap like this was feed to them. Look at how much heat Byrne got for Man of Steel, or even Waid for undoing that.

        ----- Added 13 Minutes later -----

        Originally posted by Liquid-Prince
        I only said who cares because I'm tired of people complaining and saying that it's been butchered. If this story being used in Smallville right now was being released in the newest Superman comics, no one would say anything. But Oh know Smallville is always butchering things...
        When the Executive Producers say things like they're lining up with the mythos THEN put out something like this, then it's obvious they're full of crap. Changing stuff around while being respectful is one thing like making Pete black, giving Brainiac kryptonian abilities (it actually made him a much more credible threat), and making Martha a politician.

        When you make something with no resemblance to the source material then slap a name of a character that actually has fans to slaughter them before they even fight the enemy they were created to fight, it's an insult to the creative talents that made those characters. When you make Parasite and anti-hero with an entirely different powerset than the classic version and try to pass it on as the real deal, you should expect for people to be upset.
        Last edited by Jawth; 05-12-2009, 10:01 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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        • #34
          Well, with all due respect, most of the general audience doesn't even know who characters like Plastique or Parasite are. I sure didn't until this season started airing. Outside of rabid comic or cartoons fans, very few people know anything about Superman, except for the basics: Lex Luthor as the bad guy, the Clark Kent identity, Lois Lane as a love interest, and them working at the Daily Planet. Beyond that, there's all sorts of folks (myself inluded) who've gained the majority of their mythos from the series itself.

          "Smallville" has always been geared toward the diehards and non-fans alike, and sometimes creative decisions are made, to serve both demographics at the same time...and despite the best attempts, sometimes one set of toes gets stepped on. When you're making any TV show based on another property, that's the risk taken going in every time. They can't make the series adhere completely to the books, because while the fans would enjoy it, everyone else would get bored rather quick.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by moviefan2k4
            Well, with all due respect, most of the general audience doesn't even know who characters like Plastique or Parasite are. I sure didn't until this season started airing. Outside of rabid comic or cartoons fans, very few people know anything about Superman, except for the basics: Lex Luthor as the bad guy, the Clark Kent identity, Lois Lane as a love interest, and them working at the Daily Planet. Beyond that, there's all sorts of folks (myself inluded) who've gained the majority of their mythos from the series itself.

            "Smallville" has always been geared toward the diehards and non-fans alike, and sometimes creative decisions are made, to serve both demographics at the same time...and despite the best attempts, sometimes one set of toes gets stepped on. When you're making any TV show based on another property, that's the risk taken going in every time. They can't make the series adhere completely to the books, because while the fans would enjoy it, everyone else would get bored rather quick.
            If the majority don't care, and the fans of the source material hate it, how the hell is it a good decision to butcher the concepts? What you say is another problem in itself. Now a few million people might know of as a anti-hero who takes powers permantly instead of being...well, a murderous parasite that feeds off of life energy. No one will remember that they used the names of Neutron and Livewire and killed them off before they could serve the purpose they were created for except the people that it will piss off. If you match well enough with the source material it also makes transitioning into the other much, much easier. This is part of the reason Marvel is growing while DC is generally declining. Someone can watch Spider-Man or either of the first two X-Men films, pick up a comic and fairly easily figure out whats going on. When Smallville or Superman Returns goes against the comics like this, it's hurting bussiness for DC.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by xrayvision
              To me, Injustice seemed to pimp out various things rather than focus on the story at hand. I wanted to see Clark execute his plan, and now we'll never see him even try to use that crystal again. I was also interested in seeing more of the team, but what did we get with that? We didn't even get the shadow guy from Prey.

              I said it in another thread in this episode's forum: the events of this episode should have been split over 2 episodes, namely Beast & this one. Beast was so full of garbage. Instead they could have made a 2-part storyline with Chloe & Davis running away and the Injustice team on their tail. Instead Beast wasted so much time with garbage scenes and Injustice focused too much on Ollie-Tess, Clark-Tess, and Tess-Injustice team. We just never got a real mission going. It would have been nice to get Jimmy & Davis (and ugh, even Chloe) appearing in both episodes & seeing Davis go up against Injustice team members.

              ----- Added 2 Minutes later -----



              The thing is, such a story would never appear in the comics because it would get rejected. If anyone saw a superhero in the comics jumping into bed with Tess or someone like her, I guarantee you there would be many readers who would never pick up another issue of that comic again. That was the most pathetic depiction of a "superhero" I have ever seen. The comics aren't a love story like this show has become. Thank God Dawn Ostroff has no control over them.
              You seem to be intent on saying that the idea of Oliver being a playboy or whatever is far-fetched, or love or whatever in comics is unlikeable, for reasons I'm not sure you feel so strongly about that scene haha. It was merely him covering up his tracks...he wasn't playing his superhero persona, but his Oliver Queen persona.

              You're interpretation of this scene is completely subjective, as I can assure you that Clark Kent, you're superhero is continuously depicted in more recent Action Comics and Superman issues in brief scenes of romance with Lois Lane...and thousands of people still continue to follow him.

              Nightwing, in DC One Year Later, continued with his comic line in which he is continually depicted in sensual scenes of romance and tension of that sort with Cheyenne Freemont to represent his "player" lifestyle. People still follow these comics and are simply just brief depictions of one side of the standard dual identity. Actually comics, as they are obviously fiction, have the tendency to depict far-fetched scenes...but I'm not even sure I know where you're getting at with this idea

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              • #37
                At this point I'm just glad Clark's first reaction to being depowered wasn't "Hey, I'm not affected by Kryptonite, I can bang Super-Lana"

                Lower your expectations and Smallville becomes watchable.

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                • #38
                  I'm interested to know how the "source material" fans reacted in the early seasons with Clark being friends with Lex Luthor, how Clark became aware of his origins, the Kawatche Caves, etc.

                  Moviefan2k4 is right. With this being the 8th season, it has been clear to me that Smallville was a show meant to draw in diehards and people who didn't know much of anything about Superman. That is what television is. Movies can stay entirely with the comics because that is what the audience wants. Television is different because your trying to tell a story every week that should be plausible.

                  This was even true in The Incredible Hulk days as they tried to reach fans of the character and the general television audience as well. They made it as realistic as they could, something everyone could relate to. I think Smallville does that too.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by House of Brock
                    I'm interested to know how the "source material" fans reacted in the early seasons with Clark being friends with Lex Luthor, how Clark became aware of his origins, the Kawatche Caves, etc.

                    Moviefan2k4 is right. With this being the 8th season, it has been clear to me that Smallville was a show meant to draw in diehards and people who didn't know much of anything about Superman. That is what television is. Movies can stay entirely with the comics because that is what the audience wants. Television is different because your trying to tell a story every week that should be plausible.

                    This was even true in The Incredible Hulk days as they tried to reach fans of the character and the general television audience as well. They made it as realistic as they could, something everyone could relate to. I think Smallville does that too.
                    Lex and Clark did know each other in there childhood during the Silver Age. In fact, one of the reasons Lex hated Superboy(man) was because of an accident that made him bald.

                    Even if that wasn't true, they didn't do anything that was disrespectful to the stories. Lex was still destined to be evil, Clark was still the hero who saved the day with his amazing superpowers, Lana was his first real girlfriend and Pete was his best friend. All the characters stayed true to their intention and personality. This is not true anymore. Lana running around with permanent superpowers is ****ing ridiculous. Making Parasite a troubled teen who just wants to be left alone and can take people's powers forever is pathetic.

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                    • #40
                      No one's forcing you to watch the series, Jawth. There's a difference between honest criticism, and just blowing steam for the sake of it. Your last comments were more to the latter.

                      Lana having super-powers is definitely something I didn't expect, but how else do you keep these two characters apart, who clearly are head-over-heels in love with each other? As depicted in the series, they'd never stay away from each other voluntarily, so the only way to solve the situation would be forcing them apart. Since Clark's only weaknesses are magic and Kryptonite, that left two options: having Zatanna cast some spell on them, or the "Krypto-absorption" route. Besides, they also needed to drive a huge wedge between Lex & Clark, and the Fortress collapse in "Arctic" wasn't enough. Clark's sense of justice has to (in some regard) stem from both his love for people and his anger towards Lex. For that to happen, Lex would have to do something so terrible, that Clark would never forget it. Turning the woman of his dreams into living Kryptonite certainly fits that bill. Yes, its hokey, and frankly rather extreme...but the writers had essentially pinned themselves into a corner, so something drastic was needed to get them out of it.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by moviefan2k4
                        No one's forcing you to watch the series, Jawth. There's a difference between honest criticism, and just blowing steam for the sake of it. Your last comments were more to the latter.

                        Lana having super-powers is definitely something I didn't expect, but how else do you keep these two characters apart, who clearly are head-over-heels in love with each other? As depicted in the series, they'd never stay away from each other voluntarily, so the only way to solve the situation would be forcing them apart. Since Clark's only weaknesses are magic and Kryptonite, that left two options: having Zatanna cast some spell on them, or the "Krypto-absorption" route. Besides, they also needed to drive a huge wedge between Lex & Clark, and the Fortress collapse in "Arctic" wasn't enough. Clark's sense of justice has to (in some regard) stem from both his love for people and his anger towards Lex. For that to happen, Lex would have to do something so terrible, that Clark would never forget it. Turning the woman of his dreams into living Kryptonite certainly fits that bill. Yes, its hokey, and frankly rather extreme...but the writers had essentially pinned themselves into a corner, so something drastic was needed to get them out of it.
                        Parasite is one of my favorite villians in comics. When I seen the spoilers that he'd be in the episode, I was estatic. Only to find that the character they slapped his name on had no resemblance the character.

                        I want to like this series very badly. Because of how much I enoyed the earlier episodes, I stayed with the show through the crap that was season seven, got estatic with the first half of season eight, declaring the show I loved was back. Except that they just went back to the same old Lana-Clark angst, Clark blaming himself for everything bad in the world (which worked when he was 16, but it's past time to grow up), and utterly destroying the source material when they try to bring it to life. Because I haven't been enjoying this series anymore, I said in my first post that if the finale doesn't wow me, I'm out and only will return if I hear great things.


                        The ending to season seven was the perfect end to Clana-Lana for once thinking for someone other than herself, and being honest about how she was holding him back from the man we knew he could become. Which he did, pretty much immediatly after he got back in the season eight opener.

                        Other ways to keep them apart? Guess what? People break up all the time! Have Clark find out about the stealing, the pointless torturing of Lionel after he had reformed, and have him remember all the times she acted like a complete ***** to him in the earlier seasons when he was just looking out for her. Have him tell her that all they bring each other is pain, and that if he ever sees her again he'll put her in jail for what she did to Lionel.

                        Or kill her off. Granted, thats doesn't match up with the source material either, but it's a lot less stupid than giving her superpowers forever and the character assasination that Clark went through. Or believing that someone like Lex wouldn't have a way to turn the biosuit off if it were ever used against him.

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                        • #42
                          Why is Parasite being an anti-hero a problem? Is he not supposed to be?

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Dyanara
                            Why is Parasite being an anti-hero a problem? Is he not supposed to be?
                            He's a vampiric murderer that has to absorb the lifeforce of others to survive. When he drains normal people all is left is either a smoldering skeleton or a hollowed out shell, depending on the writer. He worked with the suicide Squad once, but did it to suck up everybody's energy and it took the combined Justice League and Suicide Squad to take him down.

                            he basically wants to kill Superman and absorb his lifeforce, which could power him for much longer than a human ever could and make him more powerful. It's also of note that the powers he gets from draining metahumans IS NOT PERMANENT, and he loses them slowly as the host recovers (assuming he or she is left alive).

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