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Davis Is More Heroic Than Clark?

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  • #46
    To a certain level I agree with you. On one hand, Davis was ready to kill himself for the good of mankind. One the other hand, he killed a hell of a lot of people before he made the decision. Still, I think Davis is not as much of a wimp as Clark is. I really loved how Chloe smacked him down about killing Davis when she said he refuses to stop the things that threaten him. I also saw fear on Clark's face when Davis started to change right before the rained Kryptonite on him and that was sort of sad to see. I really wish he would man up and in that regard I think Davis has the edge.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Davis Bloome
      He is a good guy. He kills for the greater good. It's a different heroism than Clark for sure. And to sacrifice yourself for the greater good is heroic imo. It's not everyday it happens that one is determined to sacrifice his own life to save the life of others. Mostly humans are selfish and would chose to save their own life above others. I mean when was the last time Clark was faced with self-sacrifice?
      Are you serious? Davis kills for a greater good? What about that nun? Was she evil?? Are you sure that all the people that were buried in that field (there were at least 100 bodies there) deserved to die the way they did?

      Also, killing yourself knowing that there are many chances that you can come back to life is not heroic. Aware of it or not, Davis is now experimenting different kind of deaths and evolving, becoming more and more invulnerable every time. Soon he will be unstoppable.

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      • #48
        Davis is not a murderer IMO. Doomsday is. And everyone is so quick to say that Davis is just a camouflage, but this guy is living a human life, too. to name him a Hero is a far stretch, but I think he's definitely handing the situation he is presented with in a good way, even though he will still end up screwed.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by devilicus rebel
          One the other hand, he killed a hell of a lot of people before he made the decision.
          Yes, but how could he kill himself. Until he had the flashback in the Luther mansion he didn't know how to kill himself

          Originally posted by Bizarrolover
          Are you serious? Davis kills for a greater good? What about that nun? Was she evil?? Are you sure that all the people that were buried in that field (there were at least 100 bodies there) deserved to die the way they did?

          Also, killing yourself knowing that there are many chances that you can come back to life is not heroic. Aware of it or not, Davis is now experimenting different kind of deaths and evolving, becoming more and more invulnerable every time. Soon he will be unstoppable.
          So he wasn't entirely sure it would kill him, but at least he's trying. You have to appreciate the attempt he's trying to make.
          I don't remember Davis killing a nun... Maybe I missed something. It was wrong to kill the reporter, but at least he found a way to contain the beast, and I'm not saying it's right either, but considering what choices he has, it was probably the best one he could take.

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          • #50
            I mean not everyone is like Davis, even if they would have a Beast in himself. Davis is really heroic, in my opinion. Instead killing anyone, he kills bad people, which he doesn't want to do either, but has too.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Davis Bloome
              Yes, but how could he kill himself. Until he had the flashback in the Luther mansion he didn't know how to kill himself


              So he wasn't entirely sure it would kill him, but at least he's trying. You have to appreciate the attempt he's trying to make.
              I don't remember Davis killing a nun... Maybe I missed something. It was wrong to kill the reporter, but at least he found a way to contain the beast, and I'm not saying it's right either, but considering what choices he has, it was probably the best one he could take.
              The nun was killed in Prey. That's where the crucifix he has in his ambulance comes from.

              If I ever go on a killing spree because I can't help it, I want you to be my jury.

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              • #52
                AH! But she was killed by Doomsday, not by Davis... I'm sure you know where the difference lies.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Bizarrolover
                  The nun was killed in Prey. That's where the crucifix he has in his ambulance comes from.

                  If I ever go on a killing spree because I can't help it, I want you to be my jury.
                  Davis didn't kill the nun Doomsday did, there is a big difference.

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                  • #54
                    I sympathise with Davis, mainly because SW is so good at emoting. However, I disagree with you on several points.

                    Originally posted by saltyweeks
                    * Clark was destined by his nature to save the world. Davis was destined by his nature to destroy it.
                    It's debatable how "rigid" destiny is. This all comes down to existentialism and whether you believe in Fate. Personally, I don't. However, within the boundaries of the show, it seems that destiny is unavoidable. But this makes Davis tragic, not heroic.

                    * Clark was born to be a hero, Davis a beast.
                    Yes, and he deserves our sympathy and understanding. Does this make the things he's done wrong? No, murder is the intention to kill. It wasn't manslaughter. He was carrying that shovel in his carboot knowing he was going out to kill someone. He tried to divert his killing instinct to people he would feel less guilty about, but it didn't work because Davis still feels guilty; because he knows its still wrong.

                    * Clark was raised by a loving family and taught heroic, self-sacrificing values. Davis was put in a cage, abandoned on the street, and shuttled around foster homes.
                    And does everyone who has a disadvantaged background become killers? My take is that this is part of the reason he feels the need for companionship, and be loved, but in the context of the story he was designed to become "The Ultimate Destroyer". As Chloiac says, "he has no free will." Even if he were to have a priveliged background, he could not stop. Outside of the story's context, Davis' disadvantaged background may be stretched to give him a reason, but its no excuse.

                    *Clark has been continually reinforced to believe in himself by those who know of his deeds. Davis reads about the latest Doomsday murder in the paper and slouches into church.
                    He has "no free will." Even without the negative reinforcement, he could not stop. This is still tragedy. Not heroism.

                    AND YET, Davis himself has turned out to be a pretty good and noble guy, not a mindless killing machine. Doomsday may have been put into his DNA, but Davis really tries to make his life worthwhile for humanity. Despite his upbringing he becomes a paramedic to help people. When the beast comes out he tries to stop it, and always feels terrible about what happens, seeking religious answers and forgiveness. And when he can't control it, he tries to steer it in a vigilante direction instead of harming the innocent.
                    I agree. He's an EMT. He tries to help people, instead he ends up killing them. That's tragic irony in the worst possible way. Does the fact that he regrets it change the fate of those hes killed? No, it doesn't.

                    Then, when it becomes clear to him he was destined to destroy the savior of the world, his answer is-- assisted suicide to kill himself because he feels the world is safer if he sacrifices himself.
                    I won't moralise on euthanasia or assisted suicide. However, Davis' actions are of redemption. He's trying to stop the killing in the only way he sees possible. He's not proud of what he's done, he's desperate and just wants it to stop. Yes, I agree, its not an easy decision, but this is not heroism, its an attempt at atonement.

                    I'm sorry, but that's freakin' heroic. Davis wasn't handed any of the things Clark was either by nature or by environment. And yet, he continually tries to find a way out of his destiny so he can be who he is: a really decent guy who wants to help people. When he finds out he can't, he seeks to end his own life for the good of us all.
                    The definition of a hero has changed throughout history. In the past it was synonymous with "demigod" or just a really, really good, unbeatable warrior whom everyone emulated. In the modern day, "heroism" more often means a pure, altruistic act, even if it means self-sacrifice. Your argument may have had more weight if he had done so before the killing began. I just don't see a killer as a hero, and worthy of emulation, sorry.

                    When Davis loses his battle, that's when the world will be in trouble. Clark is indeed a hero, but he's had a lot of help, and he's also just a johnny-come-lately to a fight another hero has been waging all his life.
                    If you look at greek/roman/norse myths about heroes, they always receive help from gods, patrons, side-kicks. In those stories, it doesn't matter if they had help. They still did what no-one else managed to do, and passed their tests of courage and strength. So I disagree, just because Clark had help doesn't mean he's not a hero. One could say Clark is heroic because he has been faced with the option to kill or take a life, but he passed that test. So yeah, he is a hero. He didn't take the easy way out.

                    So far in the life of Doomsday the biggest enemy of Doomsday has been Davis Bloom.
                    His act of self-sacrifice may have been more "heroic" if he had tried to stop the killing before it started. Even when he became cognizant of his deeds, he didn't try to stop it. He diverted it. That was Davis' test. And he took the easy way out.

                    I sympathise with Davis. His story is tragic, he's essentially a good guy. I just don't agree that he's heroic, even before one can compare with Clark.
                    Last edited by workshyslacker; 04-03-2009, 01:43 PM.

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Davis Bloome
                      He is a good guy. He kills for the greater good. It's a different heroism than Clark for sure. And to sacrifice yourself for the greater good is heroic imo. It's not everyday it happens that one is determined to sacrifice his own life to save the life of others. Mostly humans are selfish and would chose to save their own life above others. I mean when was the last time Clark was faced with self-sacrifice?
                      Good guys don't intentionally choose a victum and murder, period! Jack the Ripper probably thought he was being heroic by ridding the world of prostitutes. In my book, Davis and Jack the Ripper are no different. Heroic, NOT!

                      I am predicting that Clark will be the self sacrifice when he fights Doomsday. He will try to stop DD to protect mankind and the world knowing that he may not live through the battle. It can't get any bigger than that.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by workshyslacker
                        His act of self-sacrifice may have been more "heroic" if he had tried to stop the killing before it started. Even when he became cognizant of his deeds, he didn't try to stop it. He diverted it. He took the easy way out.

                        I sympathise with Davis. His story is tragic, he's essentially a good guy. I just don't agree that he's heroic, even before one can compare with Clark.
                        I'm sure he has tried to stop himself. He even tried to kill himself with a knife but it didn't help did it. Although that wasn't self-sacrifice, okay. It was a test. But then he knew he couldn't kill himself so he had to find a way and he only found out one in this episode... And the tragic part is that it still didn't kill him.

                        ----- Added 3 Minutes later -----

                        Originally posted by SnowBird
                        Good guys don't intentionally choose a victum and murder, period! Jack the Ripper probably thought he was being heroic by ridding the world of prostitutes. In my book, Davis and Jack the Ripper are no different. Heroic, NOT!
                        There's is a huge difference. Jack the Ripper was a sicko who killed out of pleasure or hatred. Jack the Ripper hated women, that is why he killed. Jack the Ripper didn't feel remorse over the people he killed, Davis does, even over the ones who are bad. I'm not saying that the killing of evil people to save that of innocent people is heroic, not at all. But the act of self-sacrifice was. Or at least it was noble for him to try.
                        Last edited by Davis Bloome; 04-03-2009, 01:27 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Davis Bloome
                          I'm sure he has tried to stop himself. He even tried to kill himself with a knife but it didn't help did it. Although that wasn't self-sacrifice, okay. It was a test. But then he knew he couldn't kill himself so he had to find a way and he only found out one in this episode... And the tragic part is that it still didn't kill him.
                          I saw that act as trying to corroborate the revelations when Faora/Lois told him he was the son of Zod. At that moment, it wasn't because he was trying to prevent the killings.

                          Unfortunately, his compulsion to kill took over, and thats tragedy, followed by self-sacrifice and redemption.
                          Last edited by workshyslacker; 04-03-2009, 01:39 PM.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Davis Bloome
                            There's is a huge difference. Jack the Ripper was a sicko who killed out of pleasure or hatred. Jack the Ripper hated women, that is why he killed. Jack the Ripper didn't feel remorse over the people he killed, Davis does, even over the ones who are bad. I'm not saying that the killing of evil people to save that of innocent people is heroic, not at all. But the act of self-sacrifice was. Or at least it was noble for him to try.
                            You say Jack the Ripper couldn't stop himself from killing because he was a sicko who hated.

                            Davis is a sicko since he habitually hates bad guys and kills them, hides the bodies and won't take responsibility for his actions, Asks Chloe to be his fix to control himself and on and on with future spoilers. Yep, they are no different.

                            Too bad the kryptonite didn't kill Davis to save us all the trouble with future debates.

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                            • #59
                              Davis isn't exactly black or white like Clark. I think hes a good good guy in unfortunate circumstances. He's doing the best he can with what he ended up with. They might not be the best choices in our eyes, but what other option does the guy have?

                              And no, he can't remove himself from the people because that would be incovinient to the show's plot!

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Bizarrolover
                                Davis assumed, based in the pain he felt from the meteor rocks for about 5 seconds when he was a child, that kryptonite might kill him. He wasn't 100% sure he would die but he was very much aware of the fact that, if he came back from this one, he would become immune to death by kryptonite.

                                I don't see anything heroic about him. Tragic, yes, bot not heroic. I don't think he's a hero or a martyr because he knew there were chances that he would come back from that chamber and become an even bigger threat. Entering a suicidal chamber knowing you can survive is not a sacrifice, is just playing with your chances.

                                We don't know much about Davis' background either, just that Lionel Luthor discarded him five days after he found him. So we don't know if his choice of being a paramedic is purely altruistic, if he was moved by guilt or just a way to cover the trail of carnage he usually leaves behind. Just because he's handsome and has good intentions doesn't mean that what he's doing is right. If I were in his place, I would live like a hermit on top of a deserted mountain to narrow down the possiblity of killing someone. Yet Davis chose to live in a huge city, with lots of possible victims within reach 24/7.

                                So no, I don't think he's a hero. I don't pity him because his tragic story. He's a genetically ingeneerd killing machine and that's not going to change.
                                i agree with you. i dont know what these people are smoking in here lol. how can you say that Davis is more heroic than Clark and he's out there KILLING people. just because it seems noble of him that he's sacrificing himself in order to contain the beast that doesn't make him heroic. i think you all are getting the definition of heroism confused with the word "noble", which still isn't justifying what he has done. What he's doing is just plain wrong and theres nothing that you can do or say to change that.

                                Like someone else was saying, if Davis was smart, he'd have thought of moving himself somewhere across the world where he couldn't harm anyone. If not that then he could've went to clark for help. Clark "knows" many people who could come up with a solution. There's Kara, martian manhunter, justice league, not to mention some of the doctors who've helped in the past that could try and figure out a way to separate him from the beast....and o yea the phantom zone! You don't just say hmmmm....i think the best way to control this thing is to just kill innocent or bad people. and sacrificing yourself....it was more like making yourself stronger because you know cant die. If i was that strong and knew that my purpose was to kill everyone id be tryna figure out a way to suppress the beast or just leave earth or somethin.

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