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Just watched this last night - thought it was pretty good but the jury is still out for me. Loved Firefly and Buffy - just want to see how this goes. It reminds me of Point of No Return in a way.
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I think that for the first episode,it was pretty good.
And it's Joss,it just can't be bad!
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hmmm maybe i should have tried harder with it. I loved True Blood from the start, but other shows like Supernatural i have had to force myself through the first few episodes in order to get into it. i think with Moonlight it's just not that inventive... it just seemed like a story that had already been done in a few shows but had been done better...
anyhoo, back to Dollhouse, which i am growing more and more obsessed with every dayComment
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I thought last night's was much better--we got some answers and the bond between Echo and Boyd actually made me care. I still thought some of the dialogue was forced--the "Do you trust me" parallel was so obvious, I knew it would be repeated later the first time it was spoken, and it just wasn't very good dialogue. I'm also still really bored with everything about the FBI plot--I know its necessary, but right now I just don't care.
Eliza's acting was so good in this episode, I didn't even think about her acting--I just bought her as the character.Comment
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Overall I'm happy with what I've seen so far of Dollhouse. I do think it will get a lot better as Joss delves deeper into the characters and this world. I know that Joss won't disappoint if we give him a chance to show us the way.Comment
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The story is different, at least for shows I've seen. Only other vamp shows I watched before it were Buffy and Angel, and now True Blood. Buffy/Angel were different, based more heavily in a world of fantasy/the occult. Moonlight and True Blood, on the other hand, try to be more real. In their characters, in their dialogue, and in their worlds in general. That's not to say Moonlight and True Blood are perfectly believable themselves, just that they have more an air of seriousness, or adultness, to them. Without the endless "Veronica Mars" style witty/cheeky dialogue from every single character that tended to form the staple of those Whedon shows--which works well in pure fantasy, but in a more real world setting, to me is not believable and can be downright annoying (which was my problem with Veronica Mars). When Whedon said he was a fan of VM and called it the "best show ever", was he actually being serious? Or was it more a jab at the show for clearly ripping off his style. Veronica was obviously a Buffy ripoff. Buffy = Veronica = Chloe Sullivan. Buffy (as played by SMG) was the only one of these three character clones I could stand being endlessly witty/cute.
By the way, it seems the Buffy/Veronica/Chloe of Dollhouse is Topher...and for that alone he annoys me to no end. lol Nothing lamer than a "man" talking the way he does, ALL THE TIME. ugh. lol
I know, just trying to drive home that the shows have similarities, as I knew Becky liked True Blood.
Definitely a much better episode. I also liked ED more this time around. And the FBI side plot is indeed boring, as they're handling it in an overly obvious/unoriginal/cliche way, right now anyway.Last edited by Xanderman; 02-22-2009, 05:58 PM.Comment
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Well when i say the story seemed too familiar and too basic, i am talking in terms of all TV shows, not just ones that feature vampires. Compare it to shows like Bones, CSI and Law and Order. Compare it to Supernatural, Lois and Clark, Smallville. Anything in which there is a focus on investigating a case... and there are examples of it being done with a much more intelligent tone.
woah woah woah, hang on a minute. so many problems with your statements here
1. I would prefer it if you didn't refer to Joss Whedon's dialogue as 'Veronica Mars ' style. Buffy came first. Veronica Mars has a 'Whedon' style wit.
2. They face these horrendous situations and they find their strength through sarcasm, and keeping it light. Buffy's puns when she stakes a vampire show her confidence. When she isn't punning you know she's going to loose.
There is so much more to the witty/cheeky lines that just making the audience laugh/smile. It's a whole tone. If you took the sarcasm out of Buffy it'd be like taking the fish out of the sea. It'd just be this big story that was kind of lifeless.
3. Veronica Mars is nothing like a Buffy rip off. Joss liked the show, and guest starred on it, probably for the same reason i liked it - it was well written, with great characters and a high adrenaline level
I think it goes Xander/Wash/Topher myself. The funny man, the slightly nerdish and awkward guy, the man who uses phrases like 'man friend'.
I really fail to see how he is anything like Chloe.
I don't know why you highlighted the word 'man'. There are plenty of men who speak in a feminine/campy way.
However, it will get annoying if it's all the time. Which it won't be. Cause even the funny man gets serious plots in a Joss Whedon show.Comment
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The pilot went over well at my house.
I didn't watch any of the other series mentioned, I liked the Buffy movie, but the series not so much. I didn't watch Veronica Mars or Firefly, I watched an episode or two of each, but they didn't catch on with me/us.
I did however watch Tru Calling and I liked it very much till they brought in that 90210 guy.
I do like Dollhouse so far, and I will hang with it for a while.Comment
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I've never seen a single episode of any of those first three, lol... If you ask me intelligent tones are highly overrated. j/k
And I'm surprised you included Smallville of all shows in your list of "intelligent" shows...you're kidding, right? lol I mean seriously, if Smallville is intelligent, Moonlight is the reincarnation of Albert Einstein. j/k
Lol I know, I used VM because I was trying to make a negative comparison--VM was grossly overexaggerated in its whedonesque style to me. What worked well in Whedon's shows didn't translate nearly as well in its imitator (VM) for me.
I'm referring mainly to the writing/dialogue styles. To me, Veronica was a bigtime Buffy clone. Veronica's endlessly witty/cheeky remarks, along with almost every other character on that show it often seemed, simply screamed Whedon to me. There's a reason VM appealed to Whedon and why he made that "best show ever" remark (for a show which is HARDLY the best show ever if you ask me)--personally I really think it was partly a jab for ripping off his style. For the record I thought S1 of VM was pretty good, but S2 was painful to watch for the most part, far from well written. For me anyway (although I haven't seen the whole season, most of it though). Different tastes for different people I guess.
Last edited by Xanderman; 02-23-2009, 12:45 PM.Comment
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Well Veronica had a much dryer sarcastic humor, that was fueled by cynicism, whereas Buffy had a sort of sweetness to her comments.
I think in terms of trying to create a dialogue filled with quippy remarks your right, but i dont see any similarities in the actual characters or world.
Oh and for the record, i don't see Smallville as intelligent anymore But the Pilot episode had a really origional feel to it, unlike Moonlight
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I enjoyed the first episode, but it hasn't really hooked me yet. It was entertaining, and the storyline is intriguing, yet the cliffhanger (with the tape of Echo and the corpses) didn't really grab me as firmly as it should've done. Eliza Dushku's acting was pretty solid, a bit patchy in parts, but mostly good.
I think that's the problem so far - it was good, just not spectacular.Comment
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GHOST
The good;
More involving plot, more drama and excitiment and more realistic depiction of the reality of the Dollhouse.
The bad;
The bike ride is stupid, such a Hollywood cliche that they turn out to be racing. Boyd is the worst sniper ever, demonstrating why you should always use a semi-auto rifle. Her client is also way to handsome as Joss and ED comment but if she'd turned up with an ordinary looking guy would we not know something was up? Plenty of pandering to the studio frankly. How does Sierra fire 3 rounds from her pump action shotgun without working the action?
Best line;
Addy "Nothing is what it appears to be" (how true that will turn out to be!)
also like Tophers
"Everybody who's running to something is also running away"
Packing heat;
Sierra with a shotgun and pistol (although she has a carbine in the chopper?), Boyd with a pistol and sniper rifle.
Kinky dinky;
ED dancing is always a treat. especially in her 'decent by half an inch' dress. She also does a twirl around the stripper pole move when she gets into the van (check out her film The New Guy for more in that vein). We also get to glimpse her having bondage sex with her client. On the other hand her sexy librarian look is also quite something. Giles says he has a thing about libraries/librarians, wonder if Tony Head knows?
How'd they get away with that?
All the stuff with the kidnapped girl and what happened to Echo's personality as a kid is horrific. Sierra's first treatment is hard to watch.
This weeks fantasy;
Sierra is a SWAT team commander, Echo is a bike-riding party girl and hostage negotiator.
Total number personalitites;
2 for Echo making a total of; 6
1 for Sierra making; 2
1 for Victor
Total dolls;3
Echo, Sierra and Victor
Addy is a bit British;
It's the tea again
Topher is a bit geeky;
Subverting the Hollywood cliche
Bondage;
Echo ties up her client during sex
Knocked out
Kills;
Sierra kills 2 of the kidnappers
Dolls injured;
Echo slapped around by the kidnapper
Capt subtext
Dr Saunders offers Echo a massage. One wonders how she danced so wonderfully after dropping a motorbike on her leg?
Happy hookers
This time Echo explicitly does have sex with her paying client
Know the face?
Recurring Joss Whedon stars 3 ;Amy Acker, Eliza Dushku and Ballards sparring partner was the 'walking action figure' Spike had to fight in season 6 of Buffy to get his soul back. Also look out for Tim Kellehen who was also in Dark Skies, another conspiracy-fest series where he played a similar character (his Dark Skies co-star Conor Farrell also turns up in Buffy as the soldier who takes over The Initiative)
Guantanamo
Fanfic
Plenty of bondage sex in fanfic
Missing scenes
Reminds me off;
Adele is very Lilah like whilst Dominic is very Marcus. The relationship between Active and Handler very reminiscent of Watcher and Slayer. Ballards FBI contact is called Loomis which may be a Halloween reference.The boat sequence was so Miami Vice I had to check that Boyd was wearing socks. The kidnapped girl stuff is reminiscent of the Angel ep 'Damage'.
Questions and observations;
Caroline remarks 'Like she always said', is this Mrs Dundee whom she refers to in her video? Obviously it's not ED doing all the bike work but can she ride at all? You wonder what the Faith on a motorcycle spinoff would have been like especially with ghost-Spike as sidekick? The first time I ever actually heard Lady Gaga was watching this ep. Caroline says 'Hello mom' in her video, is her family still out there? The kidnap victim's dad refers to 'That reality crap', Joss putting the boot in? ED refers to her first movie with period cars which was presumably 'This Boys Life'. Joss is a fan of BSG AND Millers Crossing, he sure has taste! Obviously the budget is pretty tight to judge by their comments. What does Echo mean when she babbles 'Is it bigger than your thumb?'
7 out of 10, combine this and Echo and it would be much betterComment
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THE TARGET
The good;
Lots of it, exciting story and some great background. This may be the pivotal ep of Dollhouse as it's the first to suggest Echo is really moving beyond her programming and Alpha is set up as this big bad bogeyman.
The bad;
?
Best line;
Boyd (handing Echo a gun)" Know how to use that?"
Echo (handling it confidently) "4 brothers, none democrats"
Very cheeky for trendy lefty Joss
Packing heat;
Echo with a S&W 9mm. Boyd has exchanged his automatic for a .357 revolver perhaps in keeping with his backstory as an ex-cop.
Kinky dinky;
Echo and client play the naughty Girl Scout together.
Notches on the Dollhouse bedpost;
Echo; 2
How'd they get away with that?
Echo being hunted is horrible but nothing compared to Alpha slaughtering everyone in the pool! Amazing how much blood they got away with.
This weeks fantasy;
Echo is a fun loving outdoor girl and a sweet girl who loves fat guys in flashback
Total number personalitites;
2 for Echo making a total of; 8
Sierra; 2
Victor; 1
Total dolls;3
Echo, Sierra and Victor
Addy is a bit British;
Topher is a bit geeky;
He asks for a gun but no one trusts him with one
Subverting the Hollywood cliche
Hello Mellie, proving that women of a fuller figure can be attractive on US tv. Her real first name is Miracle? Were her parents hippies? Speaking of which in the flashback Echo is hired to be the girlfriend for an obese man as you would expect dolls to be but we never see him.
Bondage;
Knocked out
Kills; Boyd's driver and the Ranger killed.
Sierra; 2 kills
Echo kills the psycho; 1
Dolls injured;
Echo and Boyd badly injured
Capt subtext
Topher expresses 'Big, big man love' for Boyd and describes his eyes as 'dreamy'. Boyd is protective of the actives from the start and Topher tells him it's all about trust.
Happy hookers
Know the face?
4th Whedon alumni-Mark Shepherd was Badger in Firefly (and the 2nd BSG star for Jane Espenson to bring with her)
Guantanamo;
Boyd tortures the fake Forest Ranger to save Echo (Jack Bauer/Dick Cheney would be proud)
Fanfic
Missing scenes
Reminds me off;
Joss bascially reuses this storyline from the 3rd season Buffy ep Homecoming, it's derived from the famous short story 'The Most Dangerous Game' which in turn inspired real life serial killer Robert Hansen who hunted and murdered over twenty people after kidnapping them, releasing them into the Alaskan wilderness and giving them a head start. Also reminiscent of ED's horror movie Wrong Turn. Addy uses the term Tabula Rusa which was the name of a 6th season ep of Buffy.
Questions and observations;
Got to admit when Dominic walks away from Echo at the end I thought she just gave him a 'screw you' gesture. It wasn't until I rewatched that I realised she gives him the psycho's 'shoulder to the wheel' action. Is the drug in the canteen the catalyst for Echo's specialness or was there something before? I think if they'd have kept stories at this level Dollhouse would have been much more successful than it was.
8/10 MUCH BETTERComment
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