Ratings in Toxic...........

[superhippie2000]

talk about this episodes ratings. not how you rate the episode.

[ClarkyBoy14]

I think it will be in the 4.2's. The GA's back, and the CW's doing this big Honda contest.

[bizzaroboy9]

i predict 4.4

[SparkleforSmallville]

In the overnights ANTM did 4.01 (CW's highest this week)

So I'm sure Smallville's "Toxic" will beat that!:)

[ClarkyBoy14]

Oh, it had better! :)

[psyko69]

Its got vice presidential, and for us Canadians with satellite, the Canadian Leaders debates going against it.

I'm grabbing it as I type, but while I was kicking it back in a bar with a few gin and seven's watching the debates, it seemed like I missed some quality Smallville.

So much damn quality TV tonight and not enough time to cram it all in.

I'm hoping it stays in the fours, but I wouldn't be surprised if it took a hit.

[ClarkyBoy14]

The debates were on after SV.

[jimmyolsenblues]

I am hoping for 4mill plus`

[eas]

The debates were on after SV.

Not everywhere, though, were they? I'm EST, so my debate started at 9:00, but I think that - in some areas - "SV" was on at 8:00 & the debate started at 8:00.

Even though I'm a huge "SV" fan, I watched the debate & Tivo'd "Toxic". I watched it later on (the episode was pretty good) but my focus was on the debate - not "SV". I think that's also why the discussion is minimal on this episode, too.

[psyko69]

Not everywhere, though, were they? I'm EST, so my debate started at 9:00, but I think that - in some areas - "SV" was on at 8:00 & the debate started at 8:00.

Even though I'm a huge "SV" fan, I watched the debate & Tivo'd "Toxic". I watched it later on (the episode was pretty good) but my focus was on the debate - not "SV". I think that's also why the discussion is minimal on this episode, too.

Agreed, as much as I love Smallville, democracy is kinda more important.

Its about the only thing though.

Haven't missed an episode in a while.

[JAMHEXXX]

I think the VP debates could help Smallville go up a bit this week.

----- Added 11 Minutes later -----

The early overnight numbers for Smallville:

2.7/ 4 for Smallville, seems as though Season 8 is holding up rather nicely.

[SueB]

Thursday report:

http://pifeedback.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/63310451/m/375107461




-Continues to Lose Steam:
Smallville (CW)

Rounding off the 8-9 p.m. hour were the CW’s Smallville (Viewers: #5: 3.95 million; A18-49: #4: 1.6/ 4), which dipped year-to-year by 640,000 viewers (4.59 to 3.95 million) and 16 percent among adults 18-49 (1.9/ 5 to 1.6/ 4)

Effect of debate (positive or negative) really prevents you from making too much out of these numbers.

[Heilige]

Thursday report:

http://pifeedback.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/63310451/m/375107461




Effect of debate (positive or negative) really prevents you from making too much out of these numbers.



The Vice Presidential debate didn't come on until 9:00 PM ET, so I don't think it effected Smallville's numbers.

[JAMHEXXX]

Thursday report:

http://pifeedback.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/63310451/m/375107461




Effect of debate (positive or negative) really prevents you from making too much out of these numbers.


When compared to the dip of the other shows, Smallville is doing GREAT! It lost less viewers overall and less of their demo.

Your prediction of the bottom falling out for Smallville seems incorrect.

[TheANIMAL (marcus)]

The gap between SV and SN is just a few hundred thousand now, surely Supernatural is going to overtake Smallville gven that its just shown 3 damn near perfect episodes in a row.

[joesmallville]

The gap between SV and SN is just a few hundred thousand now, surely Supernatural is going to overtake Smallville gven that its just shown 3 damn near perfect episodes in a row.

Not really, Supernatural numbers were up because those that didn't want to watch the VP debate basically had no other option

[psyko69]

The Vice Presidential debate didn't come on until 9:00 PM ET, so I don't think it effected Smallville's numbers.

There is the pre-debate stuff, added to which, depending on where you live, the could overlap.

The debate hit it a bit, but evidently not by much.

[JAMHEXXX]

The gap between SV and SN is just a few hundred thousand now, surely Supernatural is going to overtake Smallville gven that its just shown 3 damn near perfect episodes in a row.



The half hour breakdowns show that Supernatural numbers go down from the start of the show until the conclusion. Smallville's numbers go up throughout the episode. This means that Supernatural gets an artificial boost from Smallville viewers staying on to watch the previews for the next episode.


Smallville
8:00 p.m. V: 3.80 m, A18-49: 1.5/ 4
8:30 p.m. V: 4.09 m, A18-49: 1.6/ 4

Supernatural
9:00 p.m. V: 3.75 m, A18-49: 1.5/ 3
9:30 p.m. V: 3.40 m, A18-49: 1.4/ 3


I really think when the finals come in that Smallville will go up, but Supernatural will go down.

[ClarkyBoy14]

That's too bad about the ratings. :( I guess the debates did have an effect, and you shouldn't have a promo without showing the main character.

I don't think things will get better next week since FOX will have baseball, and Time Warner has dropped CW affiliates in some locations.

[myankskent]

I don't think things will get better next week since FOX will have baseball, and Time Warner has dropped CW affiliates in some locations.

It depends on the games for MLB. It looks like the Cubs are dead so if they don't make it into the NLCS, that is going to really hurt the rating. Dodgers/Phillies would be good, but it's not going to get a huge rating like a Cubs series would or a Yankees/Red Sox.

[Supes4Ever]

Don't forget, not only were Pre-Debate shows on almost all the networks (I majored in Political Science in Undergrad, so I am always interested in this stuff), but here in Philadelphia the Phillies game didn't end until late. I wouldn't be surprised if the MLB playoffs had some overlap in our market, which consistently brings in the 4th largest viewership for Smallville. In all, a bit disappointing in the total number, but we aren't in dangerous territory especially with the second-half picking up so much steam to go above 4.09 million in the 8:30 PM slot.

[Kal-ed]

It did great, it hasnt gone down much, its within its average and doing better than the second half of last year, again people are not considering that we lost 2 main characters, other shows wouldnt even survive that, 3 if we count JG, who Im sure had some loyal followers. I think Clark in hero mode is pulling in audiences and if this remain´s so, Ill be happy, Im thinking an average of 4.00 million viewers in normal episodes and 5-5.5 in big episodes are really good numbers, not as good as we used to have, where hitting 6 wasnt that big of a deal but given the last season´s ratings I think we´r doing just fine.

[tariksam]

FINAL

Smallville
- 4.051 million viewers
- 2.5/4 HH
- 1.6/4 A18-49
- 1.4/5 A18-34

[Jaderoyale]

FINAL

Smallville
- 4.051 million viewers
- 2.5/4 HH
- 1.6/4 A18-49
- 1.4/5 A18-34

^ As long as we can stick in 4mil, i'm happy :)

[tariksam]

If you look ALL the shows rating for yesterday you'll see that Smallville is not bad at all, there were times MNIE (My Name is Earl) DOUBLED Smllville, last night 6.717 million viewers

And SV is beating FOX

[joesmallville]

^ As long as we can stick in 4mil, i'm happy :)

And it also beat ANTM by a nose hair for most watched CW show

4.05 to 4.03

[Jack-El49]

These aren't bad numbers at all. Given in central time zone and maybe mountain time zone, the debate was being broadcast at the same time SV was being broadcast.

Anything at or above 4M is a good audience for SV and I think as the storylines gravitate more toward Clark becoming a hero and developing his relationship with Lois and away from the trials and tribulations of supporting cast/characters, the numbers will remain strong and may even improve.

[ClarkyBoy14]

Yes, I'm glad to see SV was able to stay above 4 million! :)

[costas22]

Well it does experience a slight drop with each episode but i believe it just went through 2 very difficult weeks.Plastique aired along with some premieres and Toxic aired on the night of the debate.I believe that the ratings for Instinct will show us were the series is headed.It has been well promoted and it promises an intrigiung storyline.I would expect Instinct's rating to be higher than Toxic's.By the way,did we beat 90210 again?

[ClarkyBoy14]

Here's how "Plastique" ranked in total viewership on the CW for the week of Monday, September 22, 2008 to Sunday, September 28, 2008:

1. Friday Night Smackdown: 4.41 million
2. Smallville: 4.18
3. America's Next Top Model: 4.13
4. Gossip Girl: 3.33
5. Supernatural: 3.18
6. One Tree Hill: 3.14
7. 90210: 2.94
8. 90210 (R): 2.27
9. Priviliged: 1.81
10. America's Next Top Model (R): 1.46
11. One Tree Hill (R): 1.37
12. Priviliged (R): 1.22

And here's how the CW shows are ranking in viewership for the season average so far:

1. Smallville (3 episodes): 4.19 million
2. America's Next Top Model (6): 3.96
3. Supernatural (3): 3.55
4. 90210 (6): 3.47
5. Gossip Girl (5): 3.43
6. One Tree Hill (5): 3.29
7. Priviliged (4): 2.19

----- Added 17 Minutes later -----

- I find it disheartening that Marc Berman, from PIFeedback, doesn't hesitate to label Smallville as "Fading Fast," or such titles, but he hardly ever compliments it, even when it does great. Such as when last year's premiere outdid S6's premiere, he never made mention of it. :\

- I hadn't realized this, but MNTV had aired a WWE special last night to celebrate Smackdown moving to their network. That could have taken some of SV's viewers too.

[eas]

It did great, it hasnt gone down much, its within its average and doing better than the second half of last year, again people are not considering that we lost 2 main characters, other shows wouldnt even survive that, 3 if we count JG, who Im sure had some loyal followers. I think Clark in hero mode is pulling in audiences and if this remain´s so, Ill be happy, Im thinking an average of 4.00 million viewers in normal episodes and 5-5.5 in big episodes are really good numbers, not as good as we used to have, where hitting 6 wasnt that big of a deal but given the last season´s ratings I think we´r doing just fine.

I agree! I also think that the CW has stepped up a bit in terms of promotion. They have the new "passion" trailer out (that sells the legendary Clark/Lois relationship) and the other trailer with "new heroes/new villains" theme. It seems like they're really trying to sell the whole season and not just focus on selling each episode individually.

If it stays around 4 mil, then I think it will be considered "successful" by CW standards. It's the top rated scripted show of the network - not bad for a show that is in it's 8th season!

[myankskent]

And SV is beating FOX

Which is pretty darn important. This happened back in season 5, I believe, when Smallville continuously beat out The OC. You know that the CW executives are going to be all over the fact that Smallville is beating the competition that FOX has been bringing to the table.

The bottom line is that a continuous string of 4 million viewers during the first half of the season is going to get this show picked up for a season 9. Just look at the other garbage shows on this network. Not one scripted show can even come close to breaking the 4 million mark, Supernatural included, which I hear nothing but good things about from the viewers. I don't watch that show but I don't quite understand why Smallville should be cancelled and not Supernatural when Smallville beats the absolute tar out of Supernatural's ratings week after week, and that is really all that matters when it comes to keeping a show on the air. I'm not saying that I want a season 9. I honestly don't know what I want as of yet. I need to see more of season 8 to decide but I have to be fair and say that Smallville, as of now, is a lock to get picked up for another season when comparing it to the other shows.

[ClarkyBoy14]

I'm not sure how I'd feel about a S9 either. I would like for SV to go out with a bang this year and not prolong the story for yet another season, but at the same time I really don't want to say goodbye to it, and PS3 really seem enthusiastic about another season. :\

Something I noticed is that both "Siren" and "Toxic" had very similar ratings. I think the CW has an indicator of what to expect from a GA spin-off (minus a couple 100K viewers, maybe), and it looks pretty good, especially for a show on their network.

----- Added 6 Minutes later -----


If it stays around 4 mil, then I think it will be considered "successful" by CW standards. It's the top rated scripted show of the network - not bad for a show that is in it's 8th season!

I think that's something people commonly overlook when they are discussing Smallville's ratings. This the oldest show on the network, yet it continues to bring in the viewers every week.

[SueB]

- I find it disheartening that Marc Berman, from PIFeedback, doesn't hesitate to label Smallville as "Fading Fast," or such titles

Berman may only be focusing on the "18-49" demo (thanks to Boingo for the convenient stats):

Odyssey- 2.9/5; Viewers: 4.4 million; A18-49 1.8/6
Plastique- 2.8/4; Viewers: 4.1 million; A18-49 1.7/5
Toxic-2.7/4; Viewers: 4.01 million; A18-49: 1.6/ 4

If you look at that, SV is slipping lower each week, and is lower than last year.

Bizzaro- 3.6/6; Viewers: 5.1 million; A18-49: 1.9/ 5
Kara- Viewers: 4.6 million; A18-49: 1.8/ 5
Fierce - Viewers: 4.8 million; A18-49: 1.9/ 5

I can't tell you that 1.8 vs 1.6 is some big deal or not but the CW most-promo'd shows are above a 2 in the 18-34 demo (first column) in the stats (see below).
Looking at where Plastique ranked in the CW demo scale (thanks to Massena1 for the stats):


2.5/8 18-34 America’s Next Top Model 4.13 million; 2.1/8 18-49
2.4/7 18-34 Gossip Girl 3.33 million; 1.6/4 18-49
2.2/6 18-34 One Tree Hill 3.13 million; 1.5/3 18-49
2.0/6 18-34 90210 2.94 million; 1.5/4 18-49
1.7/5 18-34 Smallville 4.18 million; 18-49 1.7/ 5
1.2/3 18-34 Privileged 1.86 million; 18-49 0.8/ 2
1.1/3 18-34 Supernatural 3.17 million;18-49 1.3/ 3

IF 18-34 was actually relevant to the S9 decision, SV is one of the lower shows. Someone on Berman's site was making this point and also saying that because it's already well enough into syndication, continuing on is iffy due to production costs. Again, I'm speculating what I think is the rationale for more pessimism in their statements. As far as I can tell, only Berman is a professional media guy for sure. Others could be or they could just be having "fun with numbers". Biases were clearly evident in the dialog.

Big caveat: I am not saying this is 1) definitively what causes Berman to have his statements or 2)the most significant stats EVAH. I'm just saying that this is more complicated than raw numbers by a long shot.

I will agree, Berman seems to run hot & cold on proclaiming positive and negatives about SV. Just today, in the first report of the day he talked about how good the SV/SPN pairing was. Then at the noon report, SV was "slipping". The first week he actually had Smallville in trouble as his headline, but by noon it was "hanging in there". I don't know if he's getting feedback, has a particular stat he cares more about than others or likes/dislikes the show but he does seem inconsistent to me.

[Dannyblue1]

The half hour breakdowns show that Supernatural numbers go down from the start of the show until the conclusion. Smallville's numbers go up throughout the episode. This means that Supernatural gets an artificial boost from Smallville viewers staying on to watch the previews for the next episode.

Actually, not quite.

SV gets a boost from anyone who tunes in even 5 minutes earlier for Supernatural. And SPN's second half hour decline because anyone who changes channels before the show is officially over (meaning the credits have rolled) is counted as a decrease in viewers. So if you're watching SPN and have a Nielson box, and you turn the channel right after the promo for the next week's episode has aired, it's counted as a drop in viewers.

This is why some shows (like SV) have started stretching episodes to the very last minute of the hour, to keep viewers from turning channels too early and negatively effecting the second half hour's ratings numbers. And it's something I really wish SPN would do. However, I actually think they don't because they don't want to create longer commercial breaks.

[ClarkyBoy14]

Berman may only be focusing on the "18-49" demo (thanks to Boingo for the convenient stats):

Odyssey- 2.9/5; Viewers: 4.4 million; A18-49 1.8/6
Plastique- 2.8/4; Viewers: 4.1 million; A18-49 1.7/5
Toxic-2.7/4; Viewers: 4.01 million; A18-49: 1.6/ 4

If you look at that, SV is slipping lower each week, and is lower than last year.

Bizzaro- 3.6/6; Viewers: 5.1 million; A18-49: 1.9/ 5
Kara- Viewers: 4.6 million; A18-49: 1.8/ 5
Fierce - Viewers: 4.8 million; A18-49: 1.9/ 5

I can't tell you that 1.8 vs 1.6 is some big deal or not but the CW most-promo'd shows are above a 2 in the 18-34 demo (first column) in the stats (see below).
Looking at where Plastique ranked in the CW demo scale (thanks to Massena1 for the stats):



IF 18-34 was actually relevant to the S9 decision, SV is one of the lower shows. Someone on Berman's site was making this point and also saying that because it's already well enough into syndication, continuing on is iffy due to production costs. Again, I'm speculating what I think is the rationale for more pessimism in their statements. As far as I can tell, only Berman is a professional media guy for sure. Others could be or they could just be having "fun with numbers". Biases were clearly evident in the dialog.

Big caveat: I am not saying this is 1) definitively what causes Berman to have his statements or 2)the most significant stats EVAH. I'm just saying that this is more complicated than raw numbers by a long shot.

I will agree, Berman seems to run hot & cold on proclaiming positive and negatives about SV. Just today, in the first report of the day he talked about how good the SV/SPN pairing was. Then at the noon report, SV was "slipping". The first week he actually had Smallville in trouble as his headline, but by noon it was "hanging in there". I don't know if he's getting feedback, has a particular stat he cares more about than others or likes/dislikes the show but he does seem inconsistent to me.

Yes, unfortunately, Smallville doesn't always do so hot in the younger demos, which is something that doesn't make it look as good in the CW's eyes. :\

I've noticed how he changes what he says between the overnights and the fast nats, too. I just wish he wouldn't be so quick to condemn Smallville, when it usually does well.

----- Added 10 Minutes later -----


Actually, not quite.

SV gets a boost from anyone who tunes in even 5 minutes earlier for Supernatural. And SPN's second half hour decline because anyone who changes channels before the show is officially over (meaning the credits have rolled) is counted as a decrease in viewers. So if you're watching SPN and have a Nielson box, and you turn the channel right after the promo for the next week's episode has aired, it's counted as a drop in viewers.

This is why some shows (like SV) have started stretching episodes to the very last minute of the hour, to keep viewers from turning channels too early and negatively effecting the second half hour's ratings numbers. And it's something I really wish SPN would do. However, I actually think they don't because they don't want to create longer commercial breaks.

That's how all the shows on the CW are, at least the scripted shows. Gossip Girl leads straight into One Tree Hill, which then has a commercial after the show has ended. Same thing with 90210/Privileged and Smallville/Supernatural.

I agree that SV can be helped by SN pre-tune in, and SN can be hurt by people not watching the last commercial break. However, last week, SN rose in the last half-hour; and last year, SV's premiere rose without SN leading out of it. So, even though what you mentioned is a small factor, I think the big thing is that SV usually gains viewers as the episode progresses, with or without SN; and SN usually loses viewers, and not just because of the commercial thing.

[xrayvision]

Which is pretty darn important. This happened back in season 5, I believe, when Smallville continuously beat out The OC. You know that the CW executives are going to be all over the fact that Smallville is beating the competition that FOX has been bringing to the table.

The bottom line is that a continuous string of 4 million viewers during the first half of the season is going to get this show picked up for a season 9. Just look at the other garbage shows on this network. Not one scripted show can even come close to breaking the 4 million mark, Supernatural included, which I hear nothing but good things about from the viewers. I don't watch that show but I don't quite understand why Smallville should be cancelled and not Supernatural when Smallville beats the absolute tar out of Supernatural's ratings week after week, and that is really all that matters when it comes to keeping a show on the air. I'm not saying that I want a season 9. I honestly don't know what I want as of yet. I need to see more of season 8 to decide but I have to be fair and say that Smallville, as of now, is a lock to get picked up for another season when comparing it to the other shows.

Matt, you should really check out Supernatural. This season has been something else so far. Thanks to last season of Smallville, I now like Supernatural more than Smallville even
with the improvements in season 8. I want both shows to be picked up next year. It's a big shame Supernatural doesn't get higher ratings. They should promote the heck out of that show & also increase Smallville's promos (but not as much as Supernatural's since that usually gets less promotion & crappier promos than Smallville).

[Tacitus]

Thumbs up for Supernatural too. Its got better quality than Smallville. I dont understand why it doesnt get higher ratings too.

Anyways, good ratings for Toxic, I like.

[eas]

I'll also toss in my vote for "Supernatural"... I'm a huge "SV" fan, but "SN" is a by far better show. This Thursday's episode blew me away... this season has been great.

[scifigirl]

^^This weeks supernatural blew me away too. Gotta love it when a show can explain and add layers to its backstory and set up new and interesting problems in a nice 42 minute episode package.

[eas]

IF 18-34 was actually relevant to the S9 decision, SV is one of the lower shows. Someone on Berman's site was making this point and also saying that because it's already well enough into syndication, continuing on is iffy due to production costs. Again, I'm speculating what I think is the rationale for more pessimism in their statements.

Thanks for that data - it was very interesting.

Well, Dawn Ostoroff has not made secret of the fact that her target demographic is young tween/teen girls & the core female audience that fits within the 18-34 demographic. She's an idiot, of course, because if she took a moment to realize something, she'd see that her most successful shows are the ones that DON'T fall into that very narrow demographic. No network can survive by pandering to such a narrow target audience. Critics and entertainment journalists have been baffled by her continued stubbornness about this - and this includes her lack of promotion for "SV" and "SN".

Personally, I don't want a 9th season for "SV", so I'm not really sweating the numbers this year. I think it's time that "SV" took a bow and exited gracefully. But I am concerned about "SN" because that has, at least, a couple of more years to go before it should fold up.

----- Added 1 Minutes later -----


^^This weeks supernatural blew me away too. Gotta love it when a show can explain and add layers to its backstory and set up new and interesting problems in a nice 42 minute episode package.

Yeah... and what I loved was that it didn't contradict what we'd seen before. It fit in to the existing mythology seamlessly.

[ClarkyBoy14]

I like SN as well. I posted this another thread, but I think the writing on it is much more consistent than that on SV. However, I still prefer SV. I'm not sure whether it's just for sentiment, or if I like the characters better.

[Mad Madam Mimm]

Agreed, as much as I love Smallville, democracy is kinda more important.

Its about the only thing though.

Haven't missed an episode in a while.



I agree, democracy IS important. But I have to be honest....I watched my dvr'd episode of Smallville first. ;) Sorry, TW obsession comes before Palin and Biden. Hey...if Clark Kent ran for president, we could kill two birds with one stone!!! :lol:

[smallvillerocks45]

I like SN as well. I posted this another thread, but I think the writing on it is much more consistent than that on SV. However, I still prefer SV. I'm not sure whether it's just for sentiment, or if I like the characters better.



I'm with you on this one. I don't know what it is, but I love SV more, too... but I will give the continuity award to SN. They are doing such a wonderful job of explaining Mary's background and the yellow-eyed demon's plan and tying it all back to the "present". I also think it helps that the show only has two main characters to worry about. Yes, their stories are complex, but when you don't have six or seven other characters to consider while writing your stories, plus mythos that are set in stone by a comic book, I think it makes consistency more manageable. It's just an opinion... but that's neither here nor there. The point of this thread is ratings, and I think 4 million is just where the show needs to be if it wants to go beyond a season 8, and in general if PS3 want to end with a bang instead. (I do think sticking around for another season would actually help Supernatural - as a companion show, but that may just be a selfish desire more than reality...)

Anyhow. Thanks for all of the ratings stats. I find the whole process of quantifying viewership quite fascinating.

[Kal-ed]

Berman may only be focusing on the "18-49" demo (thanks to Boingo for the convenient stats):

Odyssey- 2.9/5; Viewers: 4.4 million; A18-49 1.8/6
Plastique- 2.8/4; Viewers: 4.1 million; A18-49 1.7/5
Toxic-2.7/4; Viewers: 4.01 million; A18-49: 1.6/ 4

If you look at that, SV is slipping lower each week, and is lower than last year.

Bizzaro- 3.6/6; Viewers: 5.1 million; A18-49: 1.9/ 5
Kara- Viewers: 4.6 million; A18-49: 1.8/ 5
Fierce - Viewers: 4.8 million; A18-49: 1.9/ 5

I can't tell you that 1.8 vs 1.6 is some big deal or not but the CW most-promo'd shows are above a 2 in the 18-34 demo (first column) in the stats (see below).
Looking at where Plastique ranked in the CW demo scale (thanks to Massena1 for the stats):



IF 18-34 was actually relevant to the S9 decision, SV is one of the lower shows. Someone on Berman's site was making this point and also saying that because it's already well enough into syndication, continuing on is iffy due to production costs. Again, I'm speculating what I think is the rationale for more pessimism in their statements. As far as I can tell, only Berman is a professional media guy for sure. Others could be or they could just be having "fun with numbers". Biases were clearly evident in the dialog.

Big caveat: I am not saying this is 1) definitively what causes Berman to have his statements or 2)the most significant stats EVAH. I'm just saying that this is more complicated than raw numbers by a long shot.

I will agree, Berman seems to run hot & cold on proclaiming positive and negatives about SV. Just today, in the first report of the day he talked about how good the SV/SPN pairing was. Then at the noon report, SV was "slipping". The first week he actually had Smallville in trouble as his headline, but by noon it was "hanging in there". I don't know if he's getting feedback, has a particular stat he cares more about than others or likes/dislikes the show but he does seem inconsistent to me.


What you continue to ignore is that we are minus 2 main characters, that had large fanbases, not just among us internet fans but casual viewers as well.

Basically what your saying is that if Phelps lost an arm and a leg (Lex and Lana) and stoped breaking records but still stayed in a podium position and at the top of his team, we can say he´s doing bad:confused::confused:

I honestly cant stand your logic in this matter, yes Smallville isnt doing great, compared to other years but your ignoring the horrible end of last season´s raitings (we barely hit the 3 million by the end of the season) and minus two main character, 3 considering JG (as did JS) had his followers.

The decrease in the targeted population (18-34) is a consecuence of the decrease in the
overall raitings, which have been falling for almost all shows. And you should alos consider the DVR numbers, where Smallville does really well.

[6-Super-Man -5]

Personally I think this show is gonna be a ninth season, with the season going this good.

[SparkleforSmallville]

Live + 7 DVR ratings for Odyssey are in:

Well, here's the link: http://tvbythenumbers.com/2008/10/06/house-has-most-dvr-viewers-90210-has-greatest-dvr-increase/5759

Smallville still CW's top ratings! YAY!



.

[ClarkyBoy14]

4.80 million. Nice! And we're still the most-watched program of the week!

[6-Super-Man -5]

You serious? Awesome!

[SueB]

What you continue to ignore is that we are minus 2 main characters, that had large fanbases, not just among us internet fans but casual viewers as well.


I'm not ignoring that at all. The data are. The point of my post was in response to why Berman used the term "slipping'. It's my suggestion he was focused on the demo. That's it.

BUT, regarding the loss of 3 (I count Lionel as well) main characters, I think those who didn't realize what was happening should be clued in by now when they didn't show up in the credits. I would guess that people tuning into the second, and certainly by the 3rd episode have figured out what SV has this year. So, at this point (certainly at least after Toxic), I think viewership will be a reflection on S8 and no longer the changed cast b/w S7 and S8. Now it's possible that it may take fans a while to give up if their favorite (Lex or Lana for example) is gone, but if not by Toxic... at what point would you say the casting changes are no longer the dominant factor (from a week by week comparison)? Please note, I think the casting changes will always factor year by year and some number in the low to mid teens % drop seems to be where we are heading thus far.

[Kal-ed]

BUT, regarding the loss of 3 (I count Lionel as well) main characters, I think those who didn't realize what was happening should be clued in by now when they didn't show up in the credits. I would guess that people tuning into the second, and certainly by the 3rd episode have figured out what SV has this year. So, at this point (certainly at least after Toxic), I think viewership will be a reflection on S8 and no longer the changed cast b/w S7 and S8. Now it's possible that it may take fans a while to give up if their favorite (Lex or Lana for example) is gone, but if not by Toxic... at what point would you say the casting changes are no longer the dominant factor (from a week by week comparison)? Please note, I think the casting changes will always factor year by year and some number in the low to mid teens % drop seems to be where we are heading thus far.

Actually, I think the hit was already been received, hence the relatively good raitings, IMO if Lex and Lana were around, with this same quality, we´d be averaging 5 mill.

10 episodes down the line you wont hear me talking about the main characters that are gone but right now, its a crucial moment and IMO the lack of Lex, Lana and Lionel, is afecting raitings as we speak, that´s why I consider this numbers to be good, cause after seeing the opening credits in Odyssey, most people realized MR, KK where gone as well as JG who left last season, so Plastique and Toxic raitings were afected by the loss of this characters and their fanbase.

[ClarkyBoy14]

LV was also gone...

----- Added 2 Hours and 27 Minutes later -----

Here's how "Toxic" ranked for the week of Monday, September 29, 2008 - Sunday, October 5, 2008 on the CW network.

1. Smallville - 4.05 million
2. America's Next Top Model - 4.03 million
3. Supernatural - 3.51 million
4. One Tree Hill - 3.42 million
5. Gossip Girl - 3.40 million
6. 90210 - 3.25 million
7. Everybody Hates Chris (Season Premiere): 2.11 million
8. The Game (Season Premiere): 1.95 million
9. Priviliged: 1.87 million
10. 90210 (R): 1.66 million
11. America's Next Top Model (R): 1.43 million
12. Valentine (Series Premiere): 1.15 million
13. Easy Money (Series Premiere): 1.08 million
14. In Harm's Way: 0.66 million

Smallville just barely edged out America's Next Top Model, so hopefully it can do better in the future. And the CW's Fridays and Sundays are horrible. :\ Also, I'm glad to see the the top of the list is filled with the "classics."

[Best Episode - 321]

Live +7 for Toxic are in:

SMALLVILLE......................4.614
AMERICA’S TOP MODEL........4.459
SUPERNATURAL..................4.049
90210..............................3.801
GOSSIP GIRL.....................3.794
ONE TREE HILL..................3.791
PRIVILEGED......................2.212

http://tvbythenumbers.com/2008/10/21/house-has-most-dvr-viewers-90210-has-greatest-dvr-increase-2/6565

[ClarkyBoy14]

There was a bigger gap between "Plastique" and "Toxic" than there was between "Odyssey" and "Plastique," but I think that that is because the trailer didn't feature Clark. I bet the L+7's for "Instinct" will be higher.

[SparkleforSmallville]

Toxic 4.05mil. to 4.61mil. That's Awesome:)