Review of Plastique by Comic Enthusiast/Journalist

[Kalista]

http://blog.al.com/scene/2008/09/smallville_scorecard_ethics_ar.html


While we didn't see what happened off camera, we're led to believe super scoop Clark simply filled out an application and was hired to The Planet's editorial staff. Keep in mind that through the series, we haven't been shown any real college education or formal training to qualify him for the position. Granted it's not always needed, but is usually a good idea anyway. We overlook the unlikeliness because we know The Planet is where Clark belongs. But I thought it would be fun to look at the fictional newspaper's editorial practices to see what they're getting right, and what they're getting wrong.

So far I've determined Lois Lane is better suited to be a used car salesperson than a news reporter.

COULD GO EITHER WAY
There were some "moments" that foreshadow a future spark between Lois and Clark. While you can't fight your destiny, I wouldn't recommend an office romance, especially in a newsroom. You'll have 10 green reporters who ask all the wrong questions at inappropriate times trying to find out what's going on, 10 senior reporters who already know what's going on but don't care, three copy editors who correct you at every turn and an editor who tells you it's never going to work.

RIGHT
Lois reprimands Clark on his wardrobe when he shows up for work. OK, a flannel and jeans probably isn't the way to go for this cub reporter on his first day, unless he knows his editor is out of the office.

COULD GO EITHER WAY
When a bus explodes on the street, presumably right in front of the newspaper's building, Clark runs to help and Lois chooses to stay in the office to "chase down leads." Sometimes, the best journalism is done at your desk and on the phone, but in this case Lois probably should have busted her hump to ground zero to ask some questions first.

RIGHT
Lois' Rule No. 1: "Always know your source." OK, good rule, but also kind of a given. To expand, a reporter should always assess who they're talking to, the spelling of their name, and what significance they have to the news.

WRONG
Lois finally makes it to the explosion site and tries to bribe a police officer to gain access. Tisk, tisk, Ms. Lane. That happens to be both illegal and unethical.

WRONG
Lois questions fellow reporter Clark about the bus story, records the conversation without his knowledge (illegal in some states) and plans to use his quotes and attribute them to an unnamed source. There's nothing remotely OK with any of that.

COULD GO EITHER WAY
Lois' Rule No. 3: "Do whatever it takes to get the story." That's a good rule of thumb, within reason of course. Reporters have to use their good judgment, but so far it's apparent Lois has none.

WRONG
Lois infiltrates an off limits area of a hospital (with a security badge she shouldn't have) to steal a coroner's report before it's made public record. Trespassing and theft? Lois is really racking up the offenses in this episode.

WRONG
Lois gives an obituary assignment to Clark. Big newspapers have big Classifieds departments to handle these. It's unlikely it would fall on the desk of a reporter.

WRONG
Clark wrote that obit after all. And Lois was good enough to edit it for him. While one might ask a colleague to sneak a peek at their work, a supervisory edit is going to come from a supervisor, not a peer.

The Daily Planet Record: 2 Rights; 5 Wrongs; 3 Either Ways

[Routh]

Oh, how I know how much you enjoyed posting that, Kalista.

Unfortunately, most of the "wrongs" describe Iconic Lois Lane's approach to journalism to a tee, ethical or not.

[SueB]

I'll delete my thread since Routh already weighed in here.

After so many hours of debate about what is realistic or not regarding journalism for Clark, it's good to see a professional weigh in.

While I'm sure many will respond with a *shrug* "It's just a TV show" so reality doesn't matter, I personally prefer a little more realism.

My favorite line:
Quote:
So far I've determined Lois Lane is better suited to be a used car salesperson than a news reporter.
Thanks to MissPiggyWiggy for the tip.

As for his criticism. I'm on board with everything except the B&E and the future romance. I think that B&E has become part of the SV universe. Every scifi "universe" has it's own ethics it develops. Hacking plus B&E are considered "acceptable" on SV. Not in real life, but Lois should not have gotten hassled by Clark if he wasn't going to hassle Chloe for the last 7 years. Also, regarding the future romance. He's right, in reality it's an absolute mistake to have a fling. Since it is fundamental to the Superman story that he eventually falls for Lois, I think it's unrealistic to expect SV will not at least hint at it. In the real world, the relationship would be best if kept very very quiet once it got going and not acknowledged until a wedding was planned. It's odd, but it's okay to be married, not okay to date (at least that's been my experience). Regardless, the relationship last year with her boss, OTOH, should have been a no-no in the SV universe as it's absolutely toxic in the real world and is not a "requirement" of the Superman story.

As for his other points (about the bribing, the tape recording, and the realism of Clark's work) I generally agree. When it comes to the established "ethics" of SV, I kind of think "What would Ma & Pa Kent think". If it would really bug them, then it should bug Clark IMO. The items he mentioned (not including B&E) would not go over well back at the Kent homestead when Ma & Pa were around. Pa in fact dabbled in the "bribe" department when he talked to Pete's family because Lionel got him an adoption certificate. That act bugged the hell out of Jonathon for years -- it wasn't a casual thing at all and he deeply regretted dealing with Lionel Luthor because it was underhanded. I'm not trying to imply Ma & Pa were saints, but casual bribing wouldn't sit well IMO.


Unfortunately, most of the "wrongs" describe Iconic Lois Lane's approach to journalism to a tee, ethical or not.

Which brings up a really really good point. Part of the issue I have is that I think Lois's actions should bug the hell out of the Clark that we've seen on SV for years. I think we not only are retconning Lois' journalism but we not have to retcon Clark's morality just to make it ICONIC!

What a cop-out.

[DontCha]

this person obviously has no clue about who Lois Lane is...she does ANYTHING and i mean ANYTHING for a story be it unethical or ethical she doesnt give a hoot. She often ends up in trouble ebcause of it too and then superman has to get her ut of it

and yes, since she was re-written in 1987, she's also very open about her sexuality, when the normal approach doesnt work she'll quite readily flaunt her stuff to get a story.

[SueB]

this person obviously has no clue about who Lois Lane is...she does ANYTHING and i mean ANYTHING for a story be it unethical or ethical she doesnt give a hoot.

So WHY does someone as ethical as Superman accept her as his life-partner? It's okay to be unethical because she fills out a shirt nicely?

[Kalista]

He is a self described comic enthusiast who is also a journalist.

[DontCha]

So WHY does someone as ethical as Superman accept her as his life-partner? It's okay to be unethical because she fills out a shirt nicely?


because she is his opposite plain and simple.

always has been and always will be for 70 years and running.

She keeps superman on his toes when he's so good and pure he needs a mate who balances it out, yin to his yang and all that.

[SueB]

opposite plain and simple.


No wonder Clex worked so well.

Still, I'm not buying the "it worked 70 years ago and that's good enough for me" argument. It's probably one of the reasons why I can't get on board this season. Smallville is suppose to be a more detailed look at the backstory of how Clark Kent turned into Superman.

So far this season we shoe-horned him into the DP in one episode because after 7 years of dis-interest he suddenly decides that this is where he needs to be. And rather than getting an arc with a more natural feel --- when get one hasty conversation in the street with Chloe where Clark explains his rationale. Uber-lame in my book when it comes to writing. I wanted the jouney.

Next we get Lois and her unethical ways as the ICONIC! way of Lois Lane and we should be ready to accept that because it's ICONIC!. Again, it contradicts how we saw Clark Kent raised. Just accepting it because comic history dictates that this is how it is suppose to be... again, just lame. How about a little more backstory. Even better, how about making this Lois Lane with more ethics. It's not 1940, it's a new millennium and it would be okay if they made some changes. This SV Clark is not the same as the Superman of the last 70 years. Right now, Clark should still have the ethics he grew up with on THIS SERIES. Does this mean S8 is the season where Clark abandons his upbringing because he likes Lois? Again, what a lame answer.

ICONIC! is just an excuse for lazy writing. I want them to show me how they get there and if the ICONIC! answer is no longer relevant in the context of the series, they can adjust it a tad to fit better. For pity's sake, they've brought forward heros and villains and made dozens of other changes. Why on earth couldn't they have made a more ethical Lois Lane?

It undermines Clark's character for him to just accept her "as is" and is completely inconsistent with what we've seen. Clark will "Do what it takes" for Truth, Justice and the American way. NOT for the glory of getting an article on the front page. And if you tell me that ICONIC! Superman WOULD do that? I am just not interested in that version of him.

[DontCha]

Lois Lane of the comics is the closet thing to actually being a superman villain without actually being one. She's nothing like Lex Luthor but she is better known for her "bad qualitities". Throughout the ages Iconic Lois Lane has NEVER, i repeat NEVER been a paragon of virtue...EVER and that remains true to 70 years of mythos. Despite that her heart is firmly in the right place. She has a strong outer shell which hides her weaknesses.

Iconic Lois Lane better known for being Bossy, rude, sarcastic and combative, thats for 70 years and running and she is not afraid to deal out the cold hard truth to people's faces. But she will let people inside sometimes, Clark being one of them.

which is exactly what Lois has ALWAYS been portrayed as in Smallville.

Clark kent (for 70 years and running) has found Lois lane both fascinating and infuriating. And its part of why he loves her and its vise versa.

that is Smallville's Lois and Clark to an absolute tee. Since the VERY first day they met.

I know people who love chloe try to make out that Chloe is what Lois Lane is or should be..but its not true, choe is far, far..FAR too passive to ever be lois Lane far far too good natured to be Superman's one true soulmate.

She will never be the soulmate who for 70 years has kept him on his toes, has fascinated and infuriated him and who has been his opposite to balance him out.

[SueB]

Well, as only a casual Superman fan prior to this series, I thought Lois Lane (and I'm recalling the B&W TV version) was a role model for independent women. I didn't realize she's close to being a villain.

Yep. I definitely don't like ILL as you've described her and think it undermines Clark. I could see him getting the hots for her, but usually a common set of morals is necessary for "soulmate" status. Then again, this is comic-book mentality creeping it's way back in -- clearly a skewed vision of relationships at work here.

I'm probably not going to accept the show's end if at the end Lois is unethical. And I don't get "her heart is in the right place" if she's underhanded for personal gain. The Lois in S5 was the one who said (paraphrasing) 'I always thought secrets was just some excuse to get out of the whole do not lie thing'. I liked that aspect of Lois for being brutally truthful.

[BadToad]

None of what this guy writes surprises me. SV has never accurately portrayed journalism. Not when Chloe was at the DP, and not now that Lois is there. In fact, I'll bet you this guy could've worked up a very similar post for Chloe in the past. Right off the bat, I'm 100% sure that using your work computer to hack, and moonlight for things having nothing to do with journalism would be considered highly unethical.

And if Clark didn't have all sorts of issues when Chloe was hacking into personal medical files for him, why would he have an issue with anything Lois has done so far.


Right now, Clark should still have the ethics he grew up with on THIS SERIES. Does this mean S8 is the season where Clark abandons his upbringing because he likes Lois?

Clark does have the ethics we've seen from him ON THIS SERIES. Its suddenly Clark being OK with Lois that makes him a bad version? Not him doing any number of illegal things with Chloe, and not his forgiveness of the illegal things Lana did? No, its just Lois? Come on :rolleyes:

And IMO, that didn't make Chloe a bad journalist, and it doesn't make Lois a bad journalist. Not by the standards of this show. This is just the way SV has decided to write the rules. And its not so different from the way the rules have been written for Lois Lane for a very long time.

Also, referring back to the original article:


But I thought it would be fun to look at the fictional newspaper's editorial practices to see what they're getting right, and what they're getting wrong.

He's not slamming the show, or condemning the story. He's just having some fun at just how incorrectly SV protrays real journalism. Was this really a shock to anyone? I mean, after all, SV has always been such a stickler for realism :lol:

[harryandginnyfanatic]

Anyone who claims that they know who the Iconic Lois Lane is seriously needs to read a comic. Then they can tell me if the character is perfect.


SV has never accurately portrayed journalism. Not when Chloe was at the DP

Too true.

I never understood how the paper could just allow Chloe's friend to come in and ask Chloe to do stuff that had no relation to her actual job or the work that she was supposed to be doing.

[DontCha]

Lois lane of Smallville and Mythos is an independant woman..but theres much much more to her and its why she is such a loved character, characters with flaws are always more interesting and easier to relate to than people who are perfect. No human is perfect. Superman is perfect, a paragon of virtue, so they needed a very human character who a balances this out in the superman universe and who also balances him out as a person. She makes him feel human, because Lois Lane is as human as anyone can be. Any real human being has flaws, but she is also a good person. Her heart is firmly in the right place so she is not a villain, but she has many bad qualities, mainly her sarcasm and rudeness and the way she'll do illegal things to get a story. She's always been like that and she's like that in Smallville.

There's also nothing wrong with a woman being comfortable in her sexuality, we are not in 1930 anymore.

DC realized this and so by the 1980's they gave her sex appeal. Since then Lois will quite readily flaunt her stuff in order to get a story if the traditional way doesnt work.

It also created the running theme that superman has an exciting private life with her.

[SueB]

Not him doing any number of illegal things with Chloe, and not his forgiveness of the illegal things Lana did? No, its just Lois? Come on

Chloe didn't hack or B&E for personal gain --- and if you notice, I said it was wrong of Clark to bust Lois for that because it was what he did with Chloe. No, what I'm arguing is the "ends justifies the means" attitude Lois took in order to get her name on a front page article. Chloe could have had the expose of the century years ago. She would never do that. Lois, apparently does have limits because she didn't write up Ollie but other than that, the argument I'm hearing here is that it is an ICONIC! trait of Lois to be unethical. That's the issue. Both Chloe & Clark did illegal (but not generally unethical) things in the pursuit of Truth & Justice. Lois is in pursuit of glory. Gross. As for Lana? Well, I'm pretty sure they made the dark side of Lana THE central issue in S7's Clana relationship. No, he didn't turn her into the police but he felt her actions were due to the extreme circumstances that were ultimately tied to his alien existence (in his mind). But he unambiguously did not accept her actions. The argument here is that Clark accepts Lois' unethical actions enough to allow him to ultimately enters a relationship with her.

I'm surprised you don't see the difference.

As for Lois is now the comic book Lois. Well, that I can believe. Compared to other characters, she's much more of a caricature. There is an un-realness to the comics. If I wanted to read the comics, I'd do that. It would appear some are thrilled if SV just turns into a live-action version of the comics. Yikes. Not the show I want.

[miks]

I disagree about the B&E part, because Chloe has done it...BUT I can't think of a time when she did it just to write a story. There might be a time, but I can't think of one right now. Lois did this just so she could write her story, sorry that's completely different than hacking to help save the day. And he was dead on with her tape recording Clark. If anyone should write that story, it's Clark. He figured it out, not Lois.

[Ayanne]

Which brings up a really really good point. Part of the issue I have is that I think Lois's actions should bug the hell out of the Clark that we've seen on SV for years. I think we not only are retconning Lois' journalism but we not have to retcon Clark's morality just to make it ICONIC!

What a cop-out.

Another "wrong" was EDLo fixing his flannel clothes.

Clark has been around the DP for years with Chloe, & the fact he was dumbed down to play "unaware" of appropriate business attire, so EdLo could dress him. :rolleyes:

Clark isn't that stupid, & I really resent that his intelligence had to be reduced for EDLo's benefit.


Throughout the ages Iconic Lois Lane has NEVER, i repeat NEVER been a paragon of virtue...EVER

There's pargon of virtue, & having a semblence of ethics. Something Smallville's EDLo has been shown repeatedly to have NONE of.

[DontCha]

also, you got a prime example of who Lois really is at the end of Plastique, she came across as ruthless and unethical throughout the entire episode, but at the end, you see where her heart really is. And of course, its when she's in close proximity to clark that this happens. That she lets her hard wall down..and you see what she really believes in.

[Kalista]

Another "wrong" was EDLo fixing his flannel clothes.

Clark has been around the DP for years with Chloe, & the fact he was dumbed down to play "unaware" of appropriate business attire, so EdLo could dress him. :rolleyes:

Clark isn't that stupid, & I really resent that his intelligence had to be reduced for EDLo's benefit.


Exactly. In Spell, Clark knew that it was appropriate to wear a dress shirt for the meeting with the Princeton University rep.

Also, edlois saw Clark in a blue button down dress shirt in Commencement and she has seen him naked. Now all of sudden, she recognizes how good he looks?

Contrived.

[SueB]

where her heart really is

Her byline?

[miks]

You're soo right. After stealing a medical file for her story, trying to use her "goods" for a story, and stealing all the information she needs from Clark for her story, that one liner about revealing the truth really tied everything together!:lol:

[Kalista]

I disagree about the B&E part, because Chloe has done it...BUT I can't think of a time when she did it just to write a story. There might be a time, but I can't think of one right now. Lois did this just so she could write her story, sorry that's completely different than hacking to help save the day. And he was dead on with her tape recording Clark. If anyone should write that story, it's Clark. He figured it out, not Lois.


It's also an issue of why they are B&E. With Chlark, it usually involved something serious and they were looking out for the interests of others.

IA about the tape recording as well. Since when is it okay to secretly tape the newbie and use their information to print a story that you didn't earn. This episode leaves such a bad taste in my mouth because I feel like she used Clark to get information so she could steal it.

[harryandginnyfanatic]

Double standard much?

Personally, speaking as a mytho fan, I'm just happy that this show finally has a real reporter that actually wants to write a story and who doesn't obligate herself 24/7 into being the BDA's personal google.

The real iconic reporter in Superman is the one that goes after the story at all costs.

She's nobody's sidekick.

Another thing she isn't is Jimmy Olsen's wife.

[Kalista]

Her byline?

Quote:

edlois: The only line I'm worried about is a byline.

[Fallen One]

Sounds like a another pointless article from someone who I BET doesn't even watch the show regularly, nor care about anything on it. I laugh at these types of articles and move on. My guess is that he's a huge fan of a certain blond and only wants to undermind anything Clark and Lois does.

I also love how his kind proclaims themselves as a "comic fan", and thus as a "comic fan" Smallville isn't worthy of any praise. Please.. stop insulting my intelligence pundits. I know the real reason why you're upset, and so do you. Thats why I enjoy season 8 even more, just because I know how much its eating at them. It amuses me.

Negative always, nitpicking always, unsatisfied always. I can spot them a mile away. Bitter and angry that Chloe has been put in her rightful place, and bitter and angry that Lois and Clark are now where they belong. Thats the crux of all these types of articles. The end all, be all of the pundits' arguments.

Laugh and move on, folks. This entire season is going to be one big "Nanar Nanar" to all the pundits.

[SueB]

My guess is that he's a huge fan of a certain blond and only wants to undermind anything Clark and Lois does.

Is that the best you got? Declare the source a blogger? Puhlease. He's a real journalist for a newspaper -- not some internet site only. There is no indication he's a fan of Chloe either.

Not every reviewer has an ulterior motive. Perhaps you should consider that not everyone is as thrilled with the series new direction as you are and that these opinions are not just some lame ship argument.


This entire season is going to be one big Nanar Nanar!

Which makes the show a joke a 9 year old would get -- how apropos and consistent with current direction.

[harryandginnyfanatic]

Sounds like a another pointless article from someone who I BET doesn't even watch the show regularly, nor care about anything on it. I laugh at these types of articles and move on. My guess is that he's a huge fan of a certain blond and only wants to undermind anything Clark and Lois does.

I also love how his kind proclaims themselves as a "comic fan", and thus as a "comic fan" Smallville isn't worthy of any praise. Please.. stop insulting my intelligence bloggers. I know the real reason why you're upset, and so do those writers. Thats why I enjoy season 8 even more, just because I know what its doing to them.

Negatively always, nitpicking always, unsatisfied always. I can spot them a mile away. Bitter and angry that Chloe has been put in her rightful place (OUT of the DP), and bitter and angry that Lois and Clark are now where they belong. Thats the crux of all these types of articles. The end all, be all.

Laugh and move on, folks. This entire season is going to be one big Nanar Nanar!

The DP isn't gonna go back to the way it was. Brian Peterson even said so in his interview with TWOP.

He talked about Clark Lois and Jimmy, yet funnily enough, there was no mention of a certain blonde sidekick.

[Kalista]

Fallen One

You must know something that we don't because there's no indication that he a fan of "a certain blonde". If she says that he is a comic enthusiast then the only thing we can do is take his word.

Furthermore, I get the impression that he finds the situation rather humorous. I don't sense any anger or bitterness.

[newbaggy]

The first thing I have to say is that having "Plastique"/Lois Lane scored by a journalist against real-life journalistic standards is like having "Casino Royale"/James Bond reviewed by an real-life spy. You would have the same amount of "this wouldn't happen in real life" issues in both cases, but does anybody really want to make James Bond more "realistic" in that regard? Fewer gadgets maybe, but a 007 who couldn't actually be a "00" (officially no MI6 agent has a "licence to kill"), let alone drink copiously, drive Aston Martins and bed beautiful women - all in the line of duty?

The second is that "Plastique" actually hints that Lois' ethics may be affected by having Clark around. She actually admits to Clark that when she started out at the Inquisitor, she wanted the glory of the best stories and the big headlines. She goes on to say that what she is most proud of this time is uncovering the truth. That is part of why the pairing works so well: they make each other better, because each completes the other. Clark may not lecture Lois about her behaviour, but spending so much time working with the "Boy Scout" is bound to influence her. Similarly, Lois may not see Clark adopting her "anything for a story" approach, but her boldness and enthusiasm for her career could have him seeing journalism as more than just a means of being in the middle of the action. To be honest, Clark's upbringing with regard to ethics in Smallville is just as ICONIC! as other versions of the story. "Lois and Clark" had a Clark raised with, if anything, a stronger set of ethics - or regard for them - than Smallville's, and a Lois who, initially at least, was as ethically-challenged when it came to her pursuit of a story. They seemed to cope without besmirching Superman's commitment to "Truth and Justice" (admittedly, "The American Way" got dropped, but that was the LnC producers making things fit "a tad better" for the 1990s).

[Ayanne]

Exactly. In Spell, Clark knew that it was appropriate to wear a dress shirt for the meeting with the Princeton University rep.

Also, edlois saw Clark in a blue button down dress shirt in Commencement and she has seen him naked. Now all of sudden, she recognizes how good he looks?

Contrived.


Exactly! Clark is aware of appropriate attire & yet here he was dumbed down for EdLois. It's not quite as bad as the fact he did not get an iconic entrance to the DP, but it's just another example of contrived BS writing to benefit EDLO at the expense of other characters.

[Kal-ed]

Is this a Plastique or a Lois in Plastique review?? One can find this in wiki when searching for "biased reviews".

It wasnt about ethics, or journalism, it was intended to discard Lois.

If we´r to talk about ethics, this show´s shattered them long time ago, before Lois even came into the picture, we have Clark scaping prison, B&E´s left and right, hacking (which is illegal last time I cheked, not even for a good cause), Clark´s little escapade with trashing ATM´s and robbing banks (we were shown he conciously chose to wear the ring that he knew made him act like that), bribing or "blackmailing" unrealistic sources, should I go on???

Seems to me ethics hasnt been an issue in this show and Lois is just part of a trend created a long time ago.

As for her techniques, well, I belive MKLois crossing a police perimeter was ilegal and THLois used quite dirty trick to outscoop Clark, even stole a story from him, which she refused to apologize for STAS Lois broke into places, comic´s Lois has sneaked into offices and stolen phisical evidence of some story she´s working on, she has bribed, lied, cheated, so I really fail to see how this version is any diferent.

This so called "comic book enthusiast" is just that, someone who likes them, not someone who actually read´s them.

Clark working at the DP is a bit of a lightswitch? yes, was it rushed and not fully explained?yes, is it something new and unknown in the show, not really, we all saw it coming a mile away, after season 5 each season has potencially been the last one and since only after mid season the next season is confirmed, Clark´s entry to the DP would have had to be in the last 5 episodes, if a next wouldnt have been in store.

And if its about deserving, then Clark and Lois deserved to write the story of the stripper smugler, Clark and Milton should have written the Vampire story (although they knew better), Clark the Fade story about Graham, Jimmy should have written the Firece piece, etc. Im not saying Lois deserved her story in Plastique, truth be told most of the investigating and deduction came from Clark, all Im asking is for the same standards to be aplyed to all the girls.

[Kalista]

:lol: Has anyone met this guy? How can we say that he is not a comic enthusiast because he raises legitimate criticism about the show?:rotfl: How the hell can he be called bias?

[DontCha]

I think iconic lois has had a criminal record in the past lmao in 1938

I could be wrong though..she became a fugative apparently.

----- Added 3 Minutes later -----


Quote:

edlois: The only line I'm worried about is a byline.


i thought she got a headline at the end of it?

[Kal-ed]

Clark isn't that stupid, & I really resent that his intelligence had to be reduced for EDLo's benefit.


yup, cause Clark´s never been dumbed down to make Chloe look good:rolleyes:

And I took Clark´s wardrobe selection as a reflection of his naive nature, which is a big characteristic of Superman, his simple farm upbringin is part of what makes him what and who he is, its not about being dumb, you cant say "Superman could save himself and the world a lot of trouble if he just killed Lex but he doesnt do it, so he´s dumb" its about Superman´s belif in the potencial good inside all of us and being naive enough to actually belive it and behave acoordingly.

In comics we constantly see Clark coming up with some Farmboyish coment or attitude and its usually Lois (being married and in love with him and all) the first one to give him crap for it, in Lois Lane Kent´s words (in Hush) "you can take the boy out of the farm but you cant take the..."

Classic case of double standards.

----- Added 3 Minutes later -----


:lol: Has anyone met this guy? How can we say that he is not a comic enthusiast because he raises legitimate criticism about the show?:rotfl: How the hell can he be called bias?

Well, the little knowledge in who Lois Lane he/she displayed and how Lois "roll´s" is a huge neon sign, someone who know´s Lois Lane might still hate it the way she goes about reporting, its up to everyone to decide but that´s exactly how she is; as for the biased thing, the fact that he overlooked all the lack of ethics in general and seemed to focus mostly (by mostly I mean 97%) in Lois´s is kind of a give away.

[Ayanne]

Sounds like a another pointless article from someone who I BET doesn't even watch the show regularly, nor care about anything on it. I laugh at these types of articles and move on. My guess is that he's a huge fan of a certain blond and only wants to undermind anything Clark and Lois does.

I also love how his kind proclaims themselves as a "comic fan", and thus as a "comic fan" Smallville isn't worthy of any praise. Please.. stop insulting my intelligence pundits. I know the real reason why you're upset, and so do you. Thats why I enjoy season 8 even more, just because I know how much its eating at them. It amuses me.

Negative always, nitpicking always, unsatisfied always. I can spot them a mile away. Bitter and angry that Chloe has been put in her rightful place, and bitter and angry that Lois and Clark are now where they belong. Thats the crux of all these types of articles. The end all, be all of the pundits' arguments.

Laugh and move on, folks. This entire season is going to be one big "Nanar Nanar" to all the pundits.


Wow! I think I'm going to link this post to the writer of the article, I too want to know if he's a Chloe fan, since he doesn't even mention her here, see what he thinks of her ethics.


[yup, cause Clark´s never been dumbed down to make Chloe look good

And I took Clark´s wardrobe selection as a reflection of his naive nature, which is a big characteristic of Superman, his simple farm upbringin is part of what makes him what and who he is, its not about being dumb, you cant say "Superman could save himself and the world a lot of trouble if he just killed Lex but he doesnt do it, so he´s dumb" its about Superman´s belif in the potencial good inside all of us and being naive enough to actually belive it and behave acoordingly.



Clark has worn appropriate attire previously (not flannel) under similar circumstances, which totally blow that he's "that" naive analogy out of the water.

He was dumbed down for EDLo, which I find offensive. Clark Kent can't dress himself at the age of 21?

[Kal-ed]

You must know something that we don't because there's no indication that he a fan of "a certain blonde". If she says that he is a comic enthusiast then the only thing we can do is take his word.

Actually not so if he then procedes to display a huge amount of inacuracies or things that certainly reflect a lack of knowledge at least in the Lois Lane department.

Its like me claiming Im a Paintings enthusiast, you can all take my word for it but then I procede to include Gabriel Garcia Marquez and Baryshnikov in that cathegory, people who are familiar with paintings would know I have no idea what Im talking about.

[Smallville6]

The person who wrote this article obviously believes in the Chlois theory more then Lois actually being Lois and wants to write everything as if Lois is an idiot. And no surprise here that this was happily posted by a chlarker/chloiser.

[harryandginnyfanatic]

There is an un-realness to the comics. If I wanted to read the comics, I'd do that. It would appear some are thrilled if SV just turns into a live-action version of the comics. Yikes. Not the show I want.

What's realistic about an alien from another planet going to work for a newspaper?

This show wouldn't even exist without the comics. And it's supposed to be realistic?

[SueB]

Well, the little knowledge in who Lois Lane he/she displayed and how Lois "roll´s" is a huge neon sign, someone who know´s Lois Lane might still hate it the way she goes about reporting, its up to everyone to decide but that´s exactly how she is; as for the biased thing, the fact that he overlooked all the lack of ethics in general and seemed to focus mostly (by mostly I mean 97%) in Lois´s is kind of a give away.


Getting a little perspective here:

- this is not a TV show reviewer, he is not reviewing SV as a whole, he's reviewing the single aspect of reporting on SV as shown in the one episode Plastique.

- the Lois' "rules of reporting" bit, Clark's first day on the job at the DP, the emphasis on Lois' approach to reporting --- this is why the focus is on Lois

- Of all the SV episodes in the past, this is the one that arguably had the "A plot" not as Plastique but the "Clark Kent is finally at the DP" angle. This is the perfect episode to evaluate SV's approach to reporting. Chloe is blatantly pushed out of reporting at this point on the show --- he's not going to talk about her role as a reporter in this episode.

- Who said he was even a long-time fan of the show? He said he was a comic book enthusiast.

The episode set itself up with a great emphasis on journalism and a journalist (not a blogger, not some fan-boy wanna be journalist) gave a review.


The person who wrote this article obviously believes in the Chlois theory

There's nothing to indicate that at all. Name calling because you don't like what the reviewer said is not a cogent argument.


This show wouldn't even exist without the comics. And it's supposed to be realistic?

It's the difference b/w going to the Star Wars movies (prequels included) but not going to the latest cartoon movie. Same topic, same characters even but I'm just not interested because it crosses a line --- you may not see it but I can. I don't want a cartoonish series. I don't want caricatures.

I want decent plots, good heroes, continuity, character (not caricature) development. SV has been hit and miss for years but if they run headlong into a live-action comics story, it IMO, is going to lose what tenuous grasp it has on realism. That is not what I'm interested in.

[Smallville6]

There's nothing to indicate that at all. Name calling because you don't like what the reviewer said is not a cogent argument.

I hadn't realized that saying someone believe in Chlois was considered name-calling...
Either way this person goes out of their way to make fun of Lois and point out all the things wrong with her.

[Kal-ed]

Getting a little perspective here:

- this is not a TV show reviewer, he is not reviewing SV as a whole, he's reviewing the single aspect of reporting on SV as shown in the one episode Plastique.

- the Lois' "rules of reporting" bit, Clark's first day on the job at the DP, the emphasis on Lois' approach to reporting --- this is why the focus is on Lois

- Of all the SV episodes in the past, this is the one that arguably had the "A plot" not as Plastique but the "Clark Kent is finally at the DP" angle. This is the perfect episode to evaluate SV's approach to reporting. Chloe is blatantly pushed out of reporting at this point on the show --- he's not going to talk about her role as a reporter in this episode.

- Who said he was even a long-time fan of the show? He said he was a comic book enthusiast.

The episode set itself up with a great emphasis on journalism and a journalist (not a blogger, not some fan-boy wanna be journalist) gave a review.




My bad, he´s not ignorant, his narrowminded and shortsighted; the Lois rules were inteded as a comedic thing, hence Clark making up one for himself "protect your source rule #11". Its a sci fi show, where realism is not really something one expects to find in huge amounts, gawd knows before this I got cought up in this pointless fight, about who´s the best girl, I didnt mind, nor complained that a 15 year old (Chloe) seemed to have leverage in various information sources, enough that they would risk their livelyhood in order to provide her with info for a highschool newspapper article.

The thing is, I could shatter Smallville based on this person´s standards, not only Lois or journalism but the whole show but I chose to watch a sci fi show, so I implicitely agreed to asume some things are logical within the series own context.

And if the angle was Clark in the DP as a journalist why exactly did he "waste" his whole review in Lois, kinda beat´s the angle doesnt it.

This person simply doesnt get the show period.

[SueB]

mod edit

[Fallen One]

Is that the best you got? Declare the source a blogger? Puhlease. He's a real journalist for a newspaper -- not some internet site only. There is no indication he's a fan of Chloe either. Not every reviewer has an ulterior motive. Perhaps you should consider that not everyone is as thrilled with the series new direction as you are and that these opinions are not just some lame ship argument.

I got a lot more than that. I actually held back.

To expand a little more..

This article reminds me of the reviews from Supermanhomepage. By review, I mean ***** fest. The types that look for something to complain about, and then go on and on and on about it. They aren't fans of the show, they are fans of an agenda. Whether that agenda is to turn the show into something closer to their vision, or just to destroy any good buzz or momentum the show is gaining through the media. Complaints, and negatively.. thats all you'll see from them. I'm searching this guy's archive right now, I don't see a thing about Smallville. But suddenly he picks something he doesn't like and decides to right an article about it?

Please, Mr. Journalist.. tells me more. It only adds fuel to my enjoyment.


Fallen One

You must know something that we don't because there's no indication that he a fan of "a certain blonde". If she says that he is a comic enthusiast then the only thing we can do is take his word. Furthermore, I get the impression that he finds the situation rather humorous. I don't sense any anger or bitterness.

That article was an excuse to gripe about something he's had on his mind. This "comic enthusiast" is a farce. He lists things Lois is commonly known to do in the comics and complains about them on a tv show. That right there tells me he is a liar and hasn't read many if any Superman comic books. Comic fans know comics. He does NOT. When you add in the snappy remarks about Lois, who he makes no qualms about his dislike of, it is clear to me that he is not a fan of the character. He calls Smallville fans "geeks". And he seems to not care for the new direction the show is heading (or most likely the show period), and instead is chalking everything up "destiny". I know who those complaints remind me of.

[Kalista]

The person who wrote this article obviously believes in the Chlois theory more then Lois actually being Lois and wants to write everything as if Lois is an idiot. And no surprise here that this was happily posted by a chlarker/chloiser.


Can we stick to the article and the show? Again, there is no way of verifying if this person is a a Chlarker or Choiser.:confused:

[Kal-ed]

so...were back to "it's just a TV show so it doesn't matter" argument. With that argument you can accept any poo they hand you.


Exactly, we dont have to like it though; see its one thing to like or dislike certain things and a whole diferent thing is to question the veracity and realism of a sci fi show.

Like I said, I chose to buy the Chloe and her sources crap, I bought the superhacking Chloe, the ridiculous comuting stuff with Lois and Chloe between Metropolis and Smallville, yes some of this things disturbed me at some degree but I still overlook them and try to enjoy the show, why wouldnt I buy a not so realistic journalist, when a farm man became a state senator running against a billionair with carisma??

Based on your criteria, I find it really hard to understand how you managed to watch the show for so long...

and now suddenly things are unrealistic:confused:

[RedKRules]

http://blog.al.com/scene/2008/09/smallville_scorecard_ethics_ar.html

Thanks for posting Kalista, I pretty much AGREE with everything stated here ..... so true!!

----- Added 3 Minutes later -----


Can we stick to the article and the show? Again, there is no way of verifying if this person is a a Chlarker or Choiser.:confused:

So if someone don't buy what they sell ... they're suppose to be a Chlarker or a Chloiser :lol:, but heyyy does that make me a bad fan? :lol:

[Fallen One]

Clark isn't that stupid, & I resent that his intelligence had to be reduced for EDLo's benefit


And with that, a thousands Seagulls just dropped dead from the sky due to the amount irony that suddenly fell on their heads.

Good Lord in heaven.

[SueB]

They aren't fans of the show, they are fans of an agenda.

Or he's just a journalist who once again saw journalism poorly portrayed in pop culture and wrote an article about it because it's an area he's somewhat interested in.

Again, it's not clear he even watches the show enough to have an agenda. Further, while there is no doubt that being a comic book enthusiast is a "big statement" to some --- it probably isn't a big deal to him. The use of the term "geek" in fact suggests that he is not the devotee that many here are. So.. I think it's fair to bust him for not being a major comic book fan -- it probably is not that big of a deal to him. Comparing him to the SHP guy is off, however. That guy is a blogger for a specific niche of pop culture.

The Birmingham guy is just a journalist, making a commentary on how poor journalism was portrayed in a single episode of SV.

Don't get me wrong, if he had said "Lois lane was God's gift to journalism on TV due to her professionalism and grit", I would have had a fit --- but then, I suspect you would have been praising him as a visionary.

[Ayanne]

Exactly, we dont have to like it though; see its one thing to like or dislike certain things and a whole diferent thing is to question the veracity and realism of a sci fi show.

Like I said, I chose to buy the Chloe and her sources crap, I bought the superhacking Chloe, the ridiculous comuting stuff with Lois and Chloe between Metropolis and Smallville, yes some of this things disturbed me at some degree but I still overlook them and try to enjoy the show, why wouldnt I buy a not so realistic journalist, when a farm man became a state senator running against a billionair with carisma??

Based on your criteria, I find it really hard to understand how you managed to watch the show for so long...

and now suddenly things are unrealistic:confused:

The points are not the realistic aspect, he's pointing out that EDLois has NO ethics.
there is a BIG difference. He openly acknowledges he doesn't expect the concept to be realistic as a comic enthusiast.

[Kalista]

So if someone don't buy what they sell ... they're suppose to be a Chlarker or a Chloiser :lol:, but heyyy does that make me a bad fan? :lol:

Well, if there are no other articles in this guy's archive that discuss SV, how can one assume this person has an agenda and must be a Chloe fan/Chlarker/Chloiser?

That's one heck of a conclusion to reach based on a single article and no background info on the guy.

[harryandginnyfanatic]

I suppose Chloe recording Lionel's confession in Truth without his knowledge is only considered ethical because she's everbody's favorite can-do-no-wrong tiny blonde Chloe?

[SueB]

now suddenly things are unrealistic

Suddenly? Heck no. It's been a slippery slope since late S3 in my book. BUT, this season has accelerated the fantasy aspects at an exponential rate and the amount of offscreenville explanation-required is getting far worse than it's already miserable standard before. In their rush to get to Superman without Tights, they've done a hatchet job on some of the more significant plot points and again, I think they are drawing the characters more broadly and with less depth/realism. It's all in the direction of Kodak moments and "set pieces" like a bad Micheal Bay movie.


I suppose Chloe recording Lionel's confession in Truth is only considered ethical because she's everbody's favorite can-do-no-wrong tiny blonde Chloe?

Not at all... it was unethical if she had been doing it for fame and glory and to get a headline. In addition to the classic "meteor infected people lose their judgment" argument, this was more like when the FBI orders a wiretap. I am surprised it was admissible in court, but perhaps they only used her testimony and ignored the recorded conversation. In fact they may have because otherwise Lionel would not have needed to kill Chloe to prevent her from testifying. The only "justifiable" rationale for using that tape (because once she was no longer under the influence she could have erased the evidence) was her fear for her life and an attempt to get something on Lionel to prevent him from hurting her and her father. Her consequence for that, BTW, was to be nearly blown-up by Lionel.

[RedKRules]

Well, if there are no other articles in this guy's archive that discuss SV, how can one assume this person has an agenda and must be a Chloe fan/Chlarker/Chloiser?

That's one heck of a conclusion to reach based on a single article and no background info on the guy.

I understand, it is not about being fan of Lois and Clark or not .... it is about being logical ... this show understimate our intelligence, they think we would be like...... OMG Clark is a reporter!!! Clark is a reporter!!.... when his way of getting there was the LAMEST ever!

[Kalista]

Chloe and edlois have both been guilty of questionable behavior. However, Chloe was recording the confession of a crime from a criminal and edlois was recording her fellow journalist to use the information in a story in which she intended to take full credit.

[harryandginnyfanatic]

She recorded Lionel to blackmail him and get her dad's job back. It had nothing to do with bringing him to justice for the murder of his parents.

[Kal-ed]

The points are not the realistic aspect, he's pointing out that EDLois has NO ethics.
there is a BIG difference. He openly acknowledges he doesn't expect the concept to be realistic as a comic enthusiast.

So the B&E and the hacking are acceptable if its done by Chloe or Clark or anyone who isnt Lois??

And again, Lois doing exactly what Lois in comics, movies, cartoons, series does and getting crap for it, just reflects that he doesnt know as much as he claims to know. As some of the people you were previusly agreeing with, B&E is kind of a Smallville thing, so is hacking, but if we are really going to talk about ethics, i dont think we should be so linient(sp)

[Ayanne]

I understand, it is not about being fan of Lois and Clark or not .... it is about being logical ... this show understimate our intelligence, they think we would be like...... OMG Clark is a reporter!!! Clark is a reporter!!.... when his way of getting there was the LAMEST ever!


It's about expecting some form of logic & continuity to reach the conclusion. Not using bad lightswitches. This year is the worst ever, & it's destructive & hurting the character of Clark Kent/Superman.

----- Added 46 Seconds later -----


So the B&E and the hacking are acceptable if its done by Chloe or Clark or anyone who isnt Lois??

And again, Lois doing exactly what Lois in comics, movies, cartoons, series does and getting crap for it, just reflects that he doesnt know as much as he claims to know.


What other Lois Lane slept with her editor? Didn't graduate from High school, & stole other peoples work?

[harryandginnyfanatic]

What other Lois Lane slept with her editor?

As far as I can remember. Only Superman Return's one.

And the Lois from the comics, because at the time Clark was acting editor for the paper. And they were married.

[Kal-ed]

I understand, it is not about being fan of Lois and Clark or not .... it is about being logical ... this show understimate our intelligence, they think we would be like...... OMG Clark is a reporter!!! Clark is a reporter!!.... when his way of getting there was the LAMEST ever!


I would agree with you if that had been the focus of his review but the guy decided to spin his article almost completely towards Lois.

He sounds bised to me, but then again talking bad about Chloe or Lois usually gets this exact same response, be that as it may, it seems he singled her out when the whole show is plagued with this inconsistencies and situations that we have to take for granted and with a grain of salt cause if not then we would be feeling our intelligence was being insulted every waking minute of the show.

[Kalista]

So the B&E and the hacking are acceptable if its done by Chloe or Clark or anyone who isnt Lois??

SueB has already stated that Clark shouldn't have been lecturing edlois on certain things if he didn't lecture Chloe. Although, I would argue that the B&E served a different purpose for Chlark. You know, little things like saving the world, etc. (not getting a big headline).


And again, Lois doing exactly what Lois in comics, movies, cartoons, series does and getting crap for it, just reflects that he doesnt know as much as he claims to know. As some of the people you were previusly agreeing with, B&E is kind of a Smallville thing, so is hacking, but if we are really going to talk about ethics, i dont think we should be so linient(sp)

How do you feel about her secretly recording Clark and using his information (her colleague) as her anonymous source WITHOUT his permission?

[RedKRules]

She recorded Lionel to blackmail him and get her dad's job back. It had nothing to do with bringing him to justice for the murder of his parents.

Ok, I remember she paid for that mistake, her dad was fired and they were almost blown up.... but still she was not working alone, Lex helped her to bring his father down ... and they did it!

[Ayanne]

As far as I can remember. Only Superman Return's one.

And the Lois from the comics, because at the time Clark was acting editor for the paper. And they were married.

I've watched Superman Returns, & exactly what scene showed Lois sleeping with the editor - Perry White?

Since EDLo isn't married to the Editor on Smallville, the 2nd supposed reference isn't the same context.

[RedKRules]

I would agree with you if that had been the focus of his review but the guy decided to spin his article almost completely towards Lois.

He sounds bised to me, but then again talking bad about Chloe or Lois usually gets this exact same response, be that as it may, it seems he singled her out when the whole show is plagued with this inconsistencies and situations that we have to take for granted and with a grain of salt cause if not then we would be feeling our intelligence was being insulted every waking minute of the show.

That is why I didn't mention anything about Lois, because the newestttt Reporter of the Daily is Clark ... and seriously it seemed so unreal!

[Kal-ed]

What other Lois Lane slept with her editor? Didn't graduate from High school, & stole other peoples work?

Did the reviewer ever mention this things?? I dont think so but if you must know

Lois has slept with her editor (clark, editor of the Daily Star), 90% of the Loises in history have an unknown school backround sot I couldnt say either way and THLois stole a story from Clark, research and everything.

[harryandginnyfanatic]

I've watched Superman Returns, & exactly what scene showed Lois sleeping with the editor

Richard White was an assistant editor.

----- Added 2 Minutes later -----


THLois stole a story from Clark, research and everything.

I'd say we're a decade late from expressing our disdain for her unjust beahvior in that instance.

I did like how he got her back though.

[Ayanne]

Richard White was an assistant editor.

----- Added 2 Minutes later -----



I'd say we're a decade late from expressing our disdain for her unjust beahvior in that instance.

I did like how he got her back though.

She slept with Richard White when she joined the DP? Wow, no wonder Superman Returns is considered a flop.

[Kal-ed]

Since EDLo isn't married to the Editor on Smallville, the 2nd supposed reference isn't the same context.

Not married but she was dating Grant, see its one thing to sleep with your boss and a diferent thing is dating your boss.


How ever if you wish to look at the situation from a more conservative perspective of sexuality then by all means but Lois has always been an icon of independant women and well an open sexuallity for a woman is a relatively new thing, we´r past the "she´s a wh*re" only cause she has a healthy sexual apetite, in todays world women are as free (or supposed to be) as free as a man to sleep around if they so feel like it, take Bones for example, Dr. Brennan has a very liberal, antropoligical way of looking at sex and whether she sleeps with a random guy or someone she work´s with, she´s expressing her freedom by doing something she enjoys and that doesnt demerit her as an antropologist or as a scientist, or at her field, so even if Lois was only in it for the sex then the more power to her, it has no direct afect on her value as a person.

Is it the best idea to sleep with your boss?? not really but then again if he so happens to be young and atractive why not, did I personally enjoy that 3 episode c plot?? Not really but Im not out the get her for it.

[rebecavaldez]

Jimmy Olsen's wife.[/spoiler]

I HAVE A FEELING THEY ARE GOING TO GET MARRIED BUT THEN SHE WILL DIE OR SOMETHING...

[tariksam]

How COOL article!!!

RIGHT(when is Chloe):

Cheating your way in to the DP, get fired and get once again rehired DESPITE that

COULD GO EITHER WAY (if it is Chlark):

Making your space of work like a Starbucks, receiving visits and everything

RIGHT(when is Chloe):

Making your friends using the Paper resources for:

- another paper
- to find the FOTW.....and this no resulting in an article for the paper (you know the one you WORK for).

COULD GO EITHER WAY (depends if it is about Chloe *RIGHT* or Lois *WRONG*):


Hack (totally right it should go on your job description)
Having a card and steal info in a clinic (please someone bring the priest her is the breathing proof of the Antichrist)


COULD GO EITHER WAY (depends if it is about Chloe *RIGHT* or Lois *WRONG*):


Lois is in the news room she at the beginning doesn't go to the "field" (OH DEAR GOOD SWEET MOTHER SACRILEGE!!!)
Chloe NEVER left the newsroom. Totally right on fact that is teached in "warm your chair 101"


COULD GO EITHER WAY (depends if it is about Chloe *RIGHT* or Lois *WRONG*):


Lois dates (sleeps, debatable) her boss (not having ANY benefit for it). OH GOD burn her!!!
Chloe has dates on her work (with popcorn and the MOVIE) and she actually gets her articles handed by him. Nah that's a legitimate way of finding news, you send the puppy to another city and he will bring you the news on its mouth.

[Kalista]

Why are we discussing Chloe? The topic of the article is quite specific. If the author was comparing Chloe/edlois I could understand some of the arguments being presented. But as it stands, the article is about Clark, edlois, and journalistic ethics.

[Smallville6]

How COOL article!!!

RIGHT(when is Chloe):

Cheating your way in to the DP, get fired and get once again rehired DESPITE that

COULD GO EITHER WAY (if it is Chlark):

Making your space of work like a Starbucks, receiving visits and everything

RIGHT(when is Chloe):

Making your friends using the Paper resources for:

- another paper
- to find the FOTW.....and this no resulting in an article for the paper (you know the one you WORK for).

COULD GO EITHER WAY (depends if it is about Chloe *RIGHT* or Lois *WRONG*):


Hack (totally right it should go on your job description)
Having a card and steal info in a clinic (please someone bring the priest her is the breathing proof of the Antichrist)


COULD GO EITHER WAY (depends if it is about Chloe *RIGHT* or Lois *WRONG*):


Lois is in the news room she at the beginning doesn't go to the "field" (OH DEAR GOOD SWEET MOTHER SACRILEGE!!!)
Chloe NEVER left the newsroom. Totally right on fact that is teached in "warm your chair 101"


COULD GO EITHER WAY (depends if it is about Chloe *RIGHT* or Lois *WRONG*):


Lois dates (sleeps, debatable) her boss (not having ANY benefit for it). OH GOD burn her!!!
Chloe has dates on her work (with popcorn and the MOVIE) and she actually gets her articles handed by him. Nah that's a legitimate way of finding news, you send the puppy to another city and he will bring you the news on its mouth.


:rotfl::rotfl:

[harryandginnyfanatic]

Why are we discussing Chloe? The topic of the article is quite specific. If the author was comparing Chloe/edlois I could understand some of the arguments being presented. But as it stands, the article is about Clark, edlois, and journalistic ethics.

You're right. Why discuss amchloe in a thread about journalism, when according to canon she's not even a reporter anymore?

The only real reporters on this show worth discussing now are Lane and Kent. Because in the end they're the only two that matter.

[RedKRules]

Why are we discussing Chloe? The topic of the article is quite specific. If the author was comparing Chloe/edlois I could understand some of the arguments being presented. But as it stands, the article is about Clark, edlois, and journalistic ethics.

I think it is a waste of time discussing it here, because ICONIC LAME Lightswitches are the REAL DEAL right now!!

btw Chloe is not mentioned because she is not the one struggling to be the Reporters wanna be!

[DontCha]

Lois isnt struggling...since when is she struggling in the latest season?..she got the damn story. And I think it was actually a headline. Dont remember chloe ever getting one of those.

Lois Lane a wannabe of chloe? some nobody to mythos. Someone who never got a headline throughout her entire short lived 2 year career at the daily planet.

my god now i've heard everything. Wannabe of chloe....yeah right.
Chloe is not a great reporter...she didnt prove herself to be the best, and she aint ever going back to the DP..thats it for her, she was there for 2 measly years and didnt get a single headline and didnt ever make it out of the basement, she failed as a reporter.....and we all know Lois will do better. She'll be there for longer, forever even, she'll get a pulitzer and become one of the best in the world.

[Cogito17]

I'm a little confused. Is this a startling revelation for some? I thought it was fairly common knowledge that the journalism practiced in Smallville is quite different from how real journalists operate.

The author does seem to unduly single out Lois (though she was the one handing out journalistic advice), I think he is making a point more about the portrayal of journalism than the character of Lois. None of this really bothers me though... as someone pointed out earlier, its like a spy watching James Bond movies and pointing out that it isn't accurate. Sure, it isn't accurate, but are we really watching James Bond to see an accurate portrayal of the life of an international spy? By that same token, I don't think most of us watch SV for an accurate and insightful portrayal of the lives of journalists.

Despite what someone said earlier, the focus of this episode was NOT journalism. The scenes with Clark and Lois were about the relationship between the two. Evaluating it in terms of journalism may be interesting, but its somewhat missing the point. It's like evaluating Lex/Lionel scenes from the perspective of a businessman... sure their discussion may involve talks of Luthorcorp, but oftentimes the focus isn't on the business aspect, its about their relationship.

[individuall]

I'm a little confused. Is this a startling revelation for some? I thought it was fairly common knowledge that the journalism practiced in Smallville is quite different from how real journalists operate.

The author does seem to unduly single out Lois (though she was the one handing out journalistic advice), I think he is making a point more about the portrayal of journalism than the character of Lois. None of this really bothers me though... as someone pointed out earlier, its like a spy watching James Bond movies and pointing out that it isn't accurate. Sure, it isn't accurate, but are we really watching James Bond to see an accurate portrayal of the life of an international spy? By that same token, I don't think most of us watch SV for an accurate and insightful portrayal of the lives of journalists.

Despite what someone said earlier, the focus of this episode was NOT journalism. The scenes with Clark and Lois were about the relationship between the two. Evaluating it in terms of journalism may be interesting, but its somewhat missing the point. It's like evaluating Lex/Lionel scenes from the perspective of a businessman... sure their discussion may involve talks of Luthorcorp, but oftentimes the focus isn't on the business aspect, its about their relationship.

Exactly! ITA. Great post! :D

[DontCha]

Before pondering whether or not love changes Lois Lane, the first question should be why, with so many women in the world to choose from, did the most powerful being on Earth fall so incurably in love with Lois Lane? She’s certainly attractive, street smart and can hold her own in a fight, but again with the whole world to choose from, those attributes could easily apply to a lot of other women. So what was it?
To understand Superman’s attraction to Lois Lane, you first have to understand Superman.

A Harmony of Opposites
http://www.redboots.net/news/iconic124.jpghttp://www.redboots.net/news/iconic104.jpg

To build a “super” man, the foundation requires a “good” man. Clark Kent didn’t decide to become Superman to avenge someone’s death, or to become a vigilante, or even because “with great power comes great responsibility.” His reason was the most basic of all, he wanted to help.
Possessing an innate goodness cultivated by his human parents who gave him strong ethical and moral values as well as instilling in him an incorruptible sense of right and wrong, Clark Kent was, as he would say himself, “your basic goody two-shoes.”

Given that Superman is and should be too good to be true, he requires a genuine foil as his mate to keep him on his toes, not someone who merely echoes his goodness.

While Lois Lane’s heart will always be in the right place, she is no paragon of virtue.
Instead, Lois remains better defined by what some might deem her negative qualities.
Pushy, reckless, combative, sarcastic, quick tempered, slow to forgive with a tendency to bend the truth when it suits her purpose, yet reaching for the bottle labeled ‘brutal’ when it comes to honesty, Lois Lane is about as opposite a personality can be from Superman without actually being a villain. But it’s those qualities, particularly her recklessness and attraction to danger that set her apart.
She is quite human and that’s important because Lois Lane accomplishes her particular brand of heroism without super powers, magic, or special abilities in a comic book universe where such things are expected. It not only puts her in believable jeopardy, but has put her on Superman’s radar for 70 years.



http://www.redboots.net/news/iconic105.jpg

Lois Lane is that one indefinable and unpredictable element in Superman’s otherwise well ordered black and white world. In Lois he finds someone who is at once fascinating and infuriating. A woman who seems to thrive on danger and turns a deaf ear to the voices of better angels. However, he also discovers that she has a great capacity for love and compassion, at least when she lets her guard down. But it would be naive to say that everything that Superman finds appealing about Lois exists purely on an internal level.

The Devil in Ms. Lane

http://www.redboots.net/news/iconic127.jpg
Lois has always been attractive, but one facet that has come into its own in the last twenty years is her sensuality and sex appeal. No more tweed suits and pillbox hats. Nor is Lois oblivious to this attribute. On the contrary, she exploits it.
If dressing provocatively or flirting will get her something when a traditional approach fails, Lois Lane is ready to step up to the plate … or pole.
No doubt part of the sensual upgrade was for prurient appeal, but it also grants Clark an enviable private life while still protecting Superman’s Boy Scout public image.
And though there were imaginary stories of marriages and children for decades in the comics as well as a marriage in the newspaper strip, which was also a fantasy, sex was basically a taboo subject. It wasn’t until the fortieth anniversary of Superman’s debut that the famous couple, at least in the alternate comic book universe, got married for real and finally crossed the intimacy threshold. Two years later the movie couple followed suit.







http://www.redboots.net/news/iconic132.jpg







It was a long journey to the boudoir for Superman and Lois Lane, but they’d probably agree that even after forty years it was worth the wait. In many ways the legendary couple lead a normal life simply by redefining normal. They both have jobs, and even though Clark moonlights in a cape, he’s just as likely as any husband to say, “Hi, honey, I’m home,” but might be more inclined to utter the line while entering a window, rather than a door.

Days of Whine and Roses

http://www.redboots.net/news/iconic91.jpghttp://www.redboots.net/news/iconic92.jpg
So does love change Lois Lane? Of course, because true love changes most people. However, Lois can’t be totally overhauled by love and marriage or she loses the very traits that made her iconic in the first place.
Her rougher edges can be softened a bit, but not sanded down so much that she’s left with a dull finish. She doesn’t take crap from anyone and that includes her husband, even if he does happen to be Superman.
As a wife she remains a passionate lover and a passionate fighter, but there is one place Lois Lane has never gone before, at least not until the most recent move.






http://www.redboots.net/news/iconic136.jpg

In Superman Returns, a vague sequel to the first two original Christopher Reeve Superman movies, Lois discovered that her night of passion with Superman paid off in a little dividend.
However, most would agree that her parenting skills need work. She took her son into a dangerous situation and if his super genetics had not kicked in when they did, Lois and her son might have met a grisly end.
On the other hand, her super child may learn a thing or two from his impetuous mother that he could never learn from his very self-controlling father. Although a superhero possessing Lois Lane’s attitude and Superman’s powers has actually been explored.





http://www.redboots.net/news/iconic135.jpg

In the story “The Son of Superman,” by Howard Chaykin and David Tischman, the title character held Lex Luthor aloft and threatened to drop him.
Lex, having dealt for years with the boy’s father, smugly dismissed the threat, secure in the knowledge that no son of Superman would do such a thing.
But as you can see from the dialogue, the boy quickly reminded Lex that he was also Lois Lane’s son and that she was not nearly as predictable as his father. Nor as forgiving.




http://www.redboots.net/news/iconic115.jpg

By turning the clock back thirty years to the Silver Age where Superman was the real person and Clark Kent was merely a disguise, Superman Returns recreated the romantic problems inherent to that era.
A public romance would not be possible because, as mentioned, it would not only put Lois in danger, but their son would also be a target.
A good compromise would be for Lois to suddenly find Clark Kent a whole lot more fascinating than she used to and have the unlikely couple fall in love in front of plenty of witnesses. This would also lend the movie some much needed humor.

In the final analysis …

http://www.redboots.net/news/iconic120.jpg
From her first defiant stance in 1938, Lois Lane began her journey towards becoming a well known pop culture icon. As time passed she no longer needed Superman as a qualifier to lend her recognition legitimacy. She was a force to be reckoned with on her own terms.
Lois Lane has endured and prospered for seventy years through depression, recession, wars and a dozen presidents. Why? Because even Superman needs a hero.


http://redboots.net/planet/?p=20

[RedKRules]

Lois isnt struggling...since when is she struggling in the latest season?..she got the damn story. And I think it was actually a headline. Dont remember chloe ever getting one of those.

Lois Lane a wannabe of chloe? some nobody to mythos. Someone who never got a headline throughout her entire short lived 2 year career at the daily planet.

my god now i've heard everything. Wannabe of chloe....yeah right.
Chloe is not a great reporter...she didnt prove herself to be the best, and she aint ever going back to the DP..thats it for her, she was there for 2 measly years and didnt get a single headline and didnt ever make it out of the basement, she failed as a reporter.....and we all know Lois will do better. She'll be there for longer, forever even, she'll get a pulitzer and become one of the best in the world.

:lol: thank God Chloe didn´t any headline ..... because if she did what Lois did, she would be the one being judged right now .....

The thing is people don´t care about the process, they´re just sastified with the cheap, lame result they get !

[DontCha]

so what..Lois did what lois does..thats who Lois lane is SUPPSED to be

chloe is not Lois Lane.

cheap and lame result? nope, no way..thats how its always been done with Lois..its worked for 70 years and no one complained, the only people who are complaining are the ones who are pissed off that chloe isnt still working there and is not iopposite clark kent at the DP

you know what. I actually used to like chlark but now, after reading the bitter comments from people i think im put well off of it.

Bashing a character doesnt make chlark happen, it may help to vent some steam, but in the end it doesnt mke anything better.

[RedKRules]

Come on, I am talking about SV!Lois ..... and I am not a Chloiser so I don´t care if Chloe is not Lois or whatever!

btw ... Lois should stop being so bossy ( I think that is the EDITOR´s or his real Boss´s role isn´t it?? ) and take it easy on Clark ... geeeez his first day and she was already cutting his head off ! :lol:

[DontCha]

SV lois is just like who Lois lane is SUPPSED to be theres honestly not that much of a difference between her and iconic Lois Lane..read the article I posted above, Erica's Lois fits it to an absolute tee. Lois Lane is a bossy personality in pretty much all forms of media she's appeared in ESPECIALLY towards clark kent..So, you're surprised that Smallvilles Lois is doing this to clark kent because....??

I dont think you have any concept of who Iconic Lois Lane actually is..and I dont think you any concept of how she's supposed to behave towards Clark kent.

I never called you a chloiser. But I know you're annoyed because an iconic character has taken her rightful iconic place, and a non mytho character has been given a non mythos rlole to play and this iconic character is now in proximity to clark kent on a daily basis, where feelings will develop..and this will not be happening with chloe. She's gone, out of there adn isnt going back.

----- Added 4 Minutes later -----

People are bashing her personality because they find it too brash, bossy, rude, combative. But thats who she's meant to be..and they call her a discrace to Lois Lane's anme because of this...gosh its so odd to me why people bash Smallvilles Lois for being Iconic Lois.

[Hopefulsuicide]

i'm sorry i don't have the patience to read every post but i'm gonna weigh in here

Lois Lane's ethics are different to Clark's, yes, but she is not unethical. she is ruthless and 'bends' the rules ALOT. she tells white lies and sweet talks her way in, sometimes using bribery. But because all of this is a means to an end, and that end is usually uncovering something that is much more illegal, unethical and dangerous, it doesnt at all show she is a bad person... she's just not as straight as Clark is, which is good.

it's like she completes him, cause without her, lane and kent wouldnt get half as far as they usually do with a story. she does all the 'questionable' things because he can't do it cause he's too unshakeable. I wouldnt call them opposites, as i consider Clark and Lex opposites. they are more like two halfs of a whole.

as for whether or not the journalism in the episode was realistic... well i'm in two minds.
1 - television never portrays how careers like that really are. cop shows, medical dramas, etc etc are all slightly unrealistic. Lois Lane breaking into places and trying to bribe people is not that big a TV crime. while i don't agree with Clark all of a sudden getting a job with no explanation as to how, i don't think that they have too show them as realistic reporters. that's just not the way it's ever been done... can you name a TV show where they show realistic interpretations of reporters?

[SueB]

DontCha, in all seriousness -- thanks for the perspective on Lois. I totally can't respect her ethics or the idea that "it's good that she uses her body to get stories as a way of proving that Supes has a good sex life", BUT, it does provide perspective for me. Some think this is just their cup 'o tea -- and the epitome of the right woman for Superman. I'm pretty offended by it and as someone whose risen pretty high in a two male dominated professions, I find this more of a male-fantasy for a powerful woman than a real role model. BUT I can also see now why the things that I am horrified to witness are a "no big deal" for others because they feel like this is who she is suppose to be. I just can't see the wolf in SVClark that would want his partner to be like this. I'm afraid we'll never see eye to eye on this one but I have a much better understanding -- seriously, zero sarcasm, thanks.

[Smallville6]

SV lois is just like who Lois lane is SUPPSED to be theres honestly not that much of a difference between her and iconic Lois Lane..read the article I posted above, Erica's Lois fits it to an absolute tee. Lois Lane is a bossy personality in pretty much all forms of media she's appeared in ESPECIALLY towards clark kent..So, you're surprised that Smallvilles Lois is doing this to clark kent because....??

I dont think you have any concept of who Iconic Lois Lane actually is..and I dont think you any concept of how she's supposed to behave towards Clark kent.

I never called you a chloiser. But I know you're annoyed because an iconic character has taken her rightful iconic place, and a non mytho character has been given a non mythos rlole to play and this iconic character is now in proximity to clark kent on a daily basis, where feelings will develop..and this will not be happening with chloe. She's gone, out of there adn isnt going back.

----- Added 4 Minutes later -----

People are bashing her personality because they find it too brash, bossy, rude, combative. But thats who she's meant to be..and they call her a discrace to Lois Lane's anme because of this...gosh its so odd to me why people bash Smallvilles Lois for being Iconic Lois.

Exactly! People are complaining about Lois giving Clark rules, etc. Thats what Lois does. Not just SV!Lois, but Lois in all incarnations. She's bossy, headstrong and always thinks she knows what she's doing. And as far as recording Clark when he was talking? Thats exactly something Iconic Lois would do. She does anything to get the story.
Great post, DontCha, I couldn't agree more!

[DontCha]

I apologize for just getting outta my pram just then BTW..sorry RedkRules, I was a bit of a hypocrite there telling you off for bashing a character when I did the same thing :S

----- Added 4 Minutes later -----


DontCha, in all seriousness -- thanks for the perspective on Lois. I totally can't respect her ethics or the idea that "it's good that she uses her body to get stories as a way of proving that Supes has a good sex life", BUT, it does provide perspective for me. Some think this is just their cup 'o tea -- and the epitome of the right woman for Superman. I'm pretty offended by it and as someone whose risen pretty high in a two male dominated professions, I find this more of a male-fantasy for a powerful woman than a real role model. BUT I can also see now why the things that I am horrified to witness are a "no big deal" for others because they feel like this is who she is suppose to be. I just can't see the wolf in SVClark that would want his partner to be like this. I'm afraid we'll never see eye to eye on this one but I have a much better understanding -- seriously, zero sarcasm, thanks.


apologies to you too, I understand where your opinion comes from too, I can understand how its just Lois Lane's personality that annoys people and its got nothing to do with SV's Lois Lane.

i understand where your coming from.

Andi do agree, she's always been the product of a male's view of how a woman should be, she's always changed to fit the changing roles of women and its obviously from a male's perspective.

for example, i feel that men believe a woman cant be strong unless she behaves like a man would (hence the army brat thing)

[Fallen One]

You did good Dontcha. I'm proud of ya. That article was a stroke of genius. I bet that "comic enthusiast" don't know 1/3 of it.

[harryandginnyfanatic]

So it's not just Erica Durance's portrayal of the character it's the character in general?

It's a formula that's been around and has existed in the character for years.

Some how I doubt that dynamic will ever change.

[RedKRules]

I apologize for just getting outta my pram just then BTW..sorry RedkRules, I was a bit of a hypocrite there telling you off for bashing a character when I did the same thing :S


I am sorry as well DontCha, I didn´t mean to bash anyone!

[Aran]

I´ve been reading a lot and I have to say that I´m really tired of the EDLOIS thing:(

I´m a spanish journalist, and I have to say that in order to get a story, a really good one as an investigation reporter you must jump some rules at some point.;)

Of course the show is much more exagerated, for good´s sake it´s science fiction!!.:lol:

I don´t believe for a second that Lois was trying to imitate Chloe or follow her steps as it has been suggested .I´ve been reading Superman comics since I was a little girl, my grandpa use to collect them and I went to several collectionist fairs and bought older comics, so based in what I´ve read and experienced in real life as a journalist, is quite different.:rolleyes:

There´s always the question of how far can someone go for a story, but even Lois has her limits.She can jumps some rules like hacking or trespassin ( like Chloe and so many of the show did: lana, jimmy , Lex..).

But in the end she wants to find the truth. She wouldn´t kill anyone, and most important Clark wouldn´t have as a soulmate a bad person. Lois is exactly what he needs because if you have two perfect heroes in love ( where´s the fun?, the drama? the realistic part of the story?) it would be another boring perfect God without interest.

The one thing I like about her is that she´s a feminist but uses her woman charms to get the story and only:p. She´s not a *****,and has a brutal honesty. she´s so in love with his soulmate CK,is annoying, bossy, yes, but lovable too.

I enjoyed Chloe a lot I still did, it´s just that I never sunk her character just to make Lois look better than her ? why do you guys do that? Chloe is a very loyal friend of Clark, and a very smart girl, but she´s not Lois, she´s not Superman love.

Why keep saying nasty commens about lois and call her EDLois? i think thats offnsive for the intelligence of the viewers and for Erica´s performance. I also believe that even Allison Mack wants her character to be different from Lois and give Chloe his one mithology as part of the Superman hystory, which I belive they were trying to do drawing her in the comics. She must be so proud to see her performance trascending the screen, but as Chloe not as Lois.
Come on guys why do you have to keep fighting?
:\

[RedKRules]

How interesting would it be if everyone agreed with same thing? I agree that we shall not bash anyone, but there is nothing wrong about disagreement of point of views!

[Ayanne]

SV lois is just like who Lois lane is SUPPSED to be theres honestly not that much of a difference between her and iconic Lois Lane..read the article I posted above, Erica's Lois fits it to an absolute tee. Lois Lane is a bossy personality in pretty much all forms of media she's appeared in ESPECIALLY towards clark kent..So, you're surprised that Smallvilles Lois is doing this to clark kent because....??



I read that entire article, & nowhere does it say ILL lacks ethics, which is consistantly shown with EDLo, who steal other's work (Chloe's & now Clark) writes tabloid lies & humps a Luthor clone editor on the desk.

[harryandginnyfanatic]

Again with the exaggerations.

With no canon to back up your claims.

Doesn't make for a very convincing argument.

[DontCha]

I read that entire article, & nowhere does it say ILL lacks ethics, which is consistantly shown with EDLo, who steal other's work (Chloe's & now Clark) writes tabloid lies & humps a Luthor clone editor on the desk.<!-- / message --><!-- edit note -->

doesnt it Ayanne???

when someone is called "no paragon of virtue" that kinda falls into the lack of ethics category.

----- Added 2 Minutes later -----



6 dictionary results for: virtue
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) (http://dictionary.reference.com/help/luna.html) - Cite This Source (http://dictionary.reference.com/cite.html?qh=virtue&ia=luna) - Share This (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/virtue#sharethis)vir·tue http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.png<SCRIPT type=text/javascript> var interfaceflash = new LEXICOFlashObject ( "http://cache.lexico.com/d/g/speaker.swf", "speaker", "17", "18", "http://www.kryptonsite.com/forums/", "6"); interfaceflash.addParam("loop", "false"); interfaceflash.addParam("quality", "high"); interfaceflash.addParam("menu", "false"); interfaceflash.addParam("salign", "t"); interfaceflash.addParam("FlashVars", "soundUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fcache.lexico.com%2Fdictionar y%2Faudio%2Fluna%2FV01%2FV0152900.mp3"); interfaceflash.write(); </SCRIPT><OBJECT class=inlineimg id=speaker title="Big Grin" codeBase=codebase= height=18 alt="" width=17 data=data:application/x-oleobject;base64,IGkzJfkDzxGP0ACqAGhvEzwhRE9DVFlQR SBIVE1MIFBVQkxJQyAiLS8vVzNDLy9EVEQgSFRNTCA0LjAgVHJ hbnNpdGlvbmFsLy9FTiI+DQo8SFRNTD48SEVBRD4NCjxNRVRBI Gh0dHAtZXF1aXY9Q29udGVudC1UeXBlIGNvbnRlbnQ9InRleHQ vaHRtbDsgY2hhcnNldD13aW5kb3dzLTEyNTIiPg0KPE1FVEEgY 29udGVudD0iTVNIVE1MIDYuMDAuNjAwMC4xNjcwNSIgbmFtZT1 HRU5FUkFUT1I+PC9IRUFEPg0KPEJPRFk+DQo8UD4mbmJzcDs8L 1A+PC9CT0RZPjwvSFRNTD4NCg== align=top border=0 classid="clsid:D</OBJECT><NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT>/ˈvɜrhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngtʃu/Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[vur-choo]Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation–noun <TABLE class=luna-Ent><TBODY><TR><TD class=dn vAlign=top>1.</TD><TD vAlign=top>moral excellence; goodness; righteousness. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE class=luna-Ent><TBODY><TR><TD class=dn vAlign=top>2.</TD><TD vAlign=top>conformity of one's life and conduct to moral and ethical principles; uprightness; rectitude. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE class=luna-Ent><TBODY><TR><TD class=dn vAlign=top>3.</TD><TD vAlign=top>chastity; virginity: to lose one's virtue. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE class=luna-Ent><TBODY><TR><TD class=dn vAlign=top>4.</TD><TD vAlign=top>a particular moral excellence. Compare cardinal virtues, natural virtue (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=natural virtue), theological virtue (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=theological virtue). </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE class=luna-Ent><TBODY><TR><TD class=dn vAlign=top>5.</TD><TD vAlign=top>a good or admirable quality or property: the virtue of knowing one's weaknesses.









</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


the article clearly states that she is NO paragon of virtue...you can see what the word virtue means, and so the article DOES say that Iconic Lois Lane tends to lack ethics.

it also says the word "paragon", and the word paragon means an excelent example of something good. Again it says NO paragon of virtue.


In other words,Iconic Lois lane is not a prime example of a good person with morals and ethics.

[geminis]

Great post, Aran! Sorry, mine is long. :\

The guy said he was a reporter and wanted to discuss where it was right or wrong. I have to admit it was interesting to see what a real journalist would say. My sister works for the FBI and while she would point out a lot of flaws in the X-Files, she was still a fan of the show. She didn't have to be negative and rip it apart mercilessly and I don't think the reviewer was either. It's just us obsessive fans who must examine and cross-examine and pull apart every single word like a lawyer in a trial or a white shark scenting blood in the water.

TV shows are always going to get things wrong about professions other than writing tv shows because hello, they don't know all of the rules. The writers will also a lot of times take the easy, expedient route to serve a purpose on the show. This guy in his review complains about how on Smallville Clark walks in to the Daily Planet and gets a job but his comment wasn't really mean spirited, it was just a fact. But it isn't the first time this was done. Christopher Reeve's Superman was a frozen popsicle in training for twelve years and then walks in to the Daily Planet, types really fast and is hired by Clark Kent. Granted, movies have a much shorter time frame than television series but obviously the writers on the previous 7 seasons of Smallville didn't care that much to show the HOW Clark becomes a reporter. We do know he has had some experience on the Torch but reporting isn't the main focus of the show, it's also Clark's acceptance of and use of his powers; Smallville with it's ensemble cast also has caused some pretty major limitations on Clark's development and progression in the show, something every single person who loves Clark Kent and Superman has had a problem with. But he accepted the Smallville " Clark Kent Daily Planet reporter lightswitch", dealt with it, and moved on because he realized that Smallville has a bigger agenda than to show every single move that Clark Kent makes on his path to Superman. It would have been nice to have a Perry White hiring moment but what can we do but be disappointed, complain a lot, and enjoy Clark interacting with Lois as fellow reporters on Smallville.

Now, regarding Lois: Hopeful Suicide/Becky said it very well. Lois Lane completes Clark Kent. He's the All American Boy in Blue Boy Scout and she's the bossy, risk-taking, comfortable in her sexuality and her freedom to do so, opinionated, self confident, act first think later in dangerous situations but somehow sensitive and caring yin to his his yang. We're not saying that it's good that Lois "uses her body" even though it has been done before and will be done again by countless Lois Lanes and is NOT a way to show that Superman has a good sex life, it's just pure and simple Lois using every non superpowered advantage that she has to uncover the truth. People who are going to be tempted are going to be tempted; those who won't be aren't and Lois just tries another tack in her attempts to investigate. She's not perfect and Clark Kent/Superman doesn't seem to mind, so why should we? Being a paragon of virtue is a pretty tall order to fill. Nobody is perfect, we're only fooling ourselves if we think that and Lois Lane would be the first to admit she has flaws. That is after all one of the reasons why she loves Superman; he isn't a paragon of virtue but he comes pretty close. It's that desire for the unattainable goal, wanting to strive for something better. Superman embodies that and Lois respects, admires and loves that quantity because she knows she falls short of the mark.

Women have a tough time in our society still; like to dress up and we're too girly, as if there's something wrong with enjoying our femininity. Strong women? Automatically that equates to must act like a guy? I disagree. Lois was raised as an army brat surrounded by mostly guys. She doesn't know how to be a woman subtly. She hasn't had the chance to watch and experience women dig at each other and catfight. She's a take no prisoners woman and isn't going to apologize for it, but she also isn't going to apologize for being a female. And Clark/Superman brings out that giddy, girly sense of wonder and makes her realize that she can be a woman to his man and there's nothing wrong with that.

[DestinyAw8s]

Oh, Bravo!! These posts are so EXCELLENT! I LOVE SVLois Lane!:D

[Meteror Freak]

"tisk tisk, Ms. Lane, it happens to be both illegal and unethical"

oh god

[Minela]

So WHY does someone as ethical as Superman accept her as his life-partner? It's okay to be unethical because she fills out a shirt nicely?

Because she completes him. Somebody like the boy scout needs a whirlwind like Miss. Lane. It's why she fascinates him. It's why they work. Just imagine two goody two shoes together. Big yawn. Plus, it's not like Lois is inherently bad and completely unethical. She just bends the rules a little for the greater good. ;)

----- Added 5 Minutes later -----


Even better, how about making this Lois Lane with more ethics. It's not 1940, it's a new millennium and it would be okay if they made some changes. This SV Clark is not the same as the Superman of the last 70 years.

Boy, am I glad you don't write for Superman or Smallville. You'd water down the whole story that has worked for decades. And I know you think it's lazy writing that we're getting the story the way it's supposed to be, but some of us disagree. There is a reason this story is so popular, why it's lasted so long. There is a reason both of these characters aren't the same and there is a reason the work well together. We've seen it time and time again in comics, movies and TV shows.

[Kal-ed]

I insist though, girl wars aside, journalistic ethics is not something Smallville has been knonw for, or shown to exalt the moral side of journalism. Thinkining about it, I cant remember one single journalist who´s ethics are worthy of aplause.

There was this journalist chick, who used her chams and looks to get the story on Lex, she also used blackmail, there was a nother reporter who also went the extorsion way with Lex, Perry White, the one and only Perry whit couldnt have been more unethical in his ways to attain his story, Chloe hacked ilegally, Clark, Pete and CHloe B&E left and right, breaking in crime scenes and stole evidence from them, which they kept for themselves intead of comunicating it to the police, they´ve lied to the authorities, scaped jail, etc. Lois as well has been shown to be unethical, B&E has been used by her, forged Id´s and stealing documents.

Point being all journalism in Smallville has been far from ethical and its unfair to single Lois out in this department if Perry friggin White, has been shown as an "the end justifies the means" type of reporter, to the extreme.

[SueB]

I cant remember one single journalist who´s ethics are worthy of aplause.

Khannnnn. Theoretically.

[Kal-ed]

Khannnnn. Theoretically.


Well, since she was on screen for an added 5 minutes and was never mentioned again, it was hard for her to do something unethical, by that same standard the bold dude Lois took the clothes from was also behaving ethically, so that´s two jounalists, in 8 seasons who might or might not be behaving ethically.:lol:


Oh and on my last post I forgot to mention Linda Lake, the vengance girl and Dinah Lance, the list keeps piling up.

[kiariclois]

I assume that the writer might not be a Comic Superman fan at all. For being a proper journalist he didn't even check his sources. As far as comic fans are concerned, Lois in the comic and some other incarnations has done so many illegal stuff and 'worst' than that in her career. It is what makes her, Lois. Lois Lane has always operated that way. It might not be the 'proper' rules of a real-life journalist, but comic wise, Lois has been always like that since the very start.

We do have to remember that this show is actually fictional. ALL the characters (the regulars) are taken from the fictional comics, so some might have some impossible qualities in them. (except for Chloe and Tess, I guess) Even when the show has to be realistic, it doesn't have to be that way in certain area. We need to remember that Lois character comes from a time when journalism actually required to get outside the office instead of sitting in front of a desk googling stuff. Getting some of her "best qualities", especially doing what ever it takes to get a story even by having her to do a bit of trickery from her own friend, is a requirement for Lois' character in every incarnations. She won't be Lois Lane if otherwise. Some people do enjoyed seeing Lois acting like she did in "Plastique".

I do quite love the fact that in the end, Lois had that little talk with Clark. I think PS3 has done greatly for this season so far.

I've asked my friend's opinion, who is the #1 DC comic fan I know and he thought that so far SV portrayal of her is accurate.

If we're talking about work ethics, I think this writer should look back few seasons earlier, and he'll see that what Chloe has done was far lot unethical. For one thing, she uses the computer at the daily planet for her own personal use, and again, she watched a movie with Jimmy in that very building. and yet, Lois usual "unethical" way of working got this attention? I don't like that article at all. The writer should take a lot of time to refer back to the ORIGINAL sources.

I really think TPTB did wonders with Plastique. They even have a Lois appreciation to Clark at the end.

[Aran]

Great post, Aran! Sorry, mine is long. :\

The guy said he was a reporter and wanted to discuss where it was right or wrong. I have to admit it was interesting to see what a real journalist would say. My sister works for the FBI and while she would point out a lot of flaws in the X-Files, she was still a fan of the show. She didn't have to be negative and rip it apart mercilessly and I don't think the reviewer was either. It's just us obsessive fans who must examine and cross-examine and pull apart every single word like a lawyer in a trial or a white shark scenting blood in the water.

TV shows are always going to get things wrong about professions other than writing tv shows because hello, they don't know all of the rules. The writers will also a lot of times take the easy, expedient route to serve a purpose on the show. This guy in his review complains about how on Smallville Clark walks in to the Daily Planet and gets a job but his comment wasn't really mean spirited, it was just a fact. But it isn't the first time this was done. Christopher Reeve's Superman was a frozen popsicle in training for twelve years and then walks in to the Daily Planet, types really fast and is hired by Clark Kent. Granted, movies have a much shorter time frame than television series but obviously the writers on the previous 7 seasons of Smallville didn't care that much to show the HOW Clark becomes a reporter. We do know he has had some experience on the Torch but reporting isn't the main focus of the show, it's also Clark's acceptance of and use of his powers; Smallville with it's ensemble cast also has caused some pretty major limitations on Clark's development and progression in the show, something every single person who loves Clark Kent and Superman has had a problem with. But he accepted the Smallville " Clark Kent Daily Planet reporter lightswitch", dealt with it, and moved on because he realized that Smallville has a bigger agenda than to show every single move that Clark Kent makes on his path to Superman. It would have been nice to have a Perry White hiring moment but what can we do but be disappointed, complain a lot, and enjoy Clark interacting with Lois as fellow reporters on Smallville.

Now, regarding Lois: Hopeful Suicide/Becky said it very well. Lois Lane completes Clark Kent. He's the All American Boy in Blue Boy Scout and she's the bossy, risk-taking, comfortable in her sexuality and her freedom to do so, opinionated, self confident, act first think later in dangerous situations but somehow sensitive and caring yin to his his yang. We're not saying that it's good that Lois "uses her body" even though it has been done before and will be done again by countless Lois Lanes and is NOT a way to show that Superman has a good sex life, it's just pure and simple Lois using every non superpowered advantage that she has to uncover the truth. People who are going to be tempted are going to be tempted; those who won't be aren't and Lois just tries another tack in her attempts to investigate. She's not perfect and Clark Kent/Superman doesn't seem to mind, so why should we? Being a paragon of virtue is a pretty tall order to fill. Nobody is perfect, we're only fooling ourselves if we think that and Lois Lane would be the first to admit she has flaws. That is after all one of the reasons why she loves Superman; he isn't a paragon of virtue but he comes pretty close. It's that desire for the unattainable goal, wanting to strive for something better. Superman embodies that and Lois respects, admires and loves that quantity because she knows she falls short of the mark.

Women have a tough time in our society still; like to dress up and we're too girly, as if there's something wrong with enjoying our femininity. Strong women? Automatically that equates to must act like a guy? I disagree. Lois was raised as an army brat surrounded by mostly guys. She doesn't know how to be a woman subtly. She hasn't had the chance to watch and experience women dig at each other and catfight. She's a take no prisoners woman and isn't going to apologize for it, but she also isn't going to apologize for being a female. And Clark/Superman brings out that giddy, girly sense of wonder and makes her realize that she can be a woman to his man and there's nothing wrong with that.


Siempre me ha encantado la caña que da Lois a Superman, aunque sea el hombre más poderoso del mundo. Eso la hace especial. ¡¡Gran Post geminis!!;)

I´ve always love lois messing up with Clark, even when he´s the most powerful man in the Earth. That makes her special. Great post geminis!:D

[doodie8808]

i love lois she does mess with clark and he needs that normal in his life i think thats why he falls for her mostly first she justs sees him as clark!

[Timester]

"Two separate texts have appeared purporting to tell the true story of how Clark Kent came to acquire his reporter's job on the Daily Planet, and they contain widely disparate accounts. According to Action Comics No. 144, Clark Kent first decided to become a reporter while still a youngster, after hearing Daily Planet editor Perry White give a lecture at Smallville High School. Arriving in Metropolis "years later" in hopes of pursuing a journalist's career, Kent was rejected by White when he applied for a post at the Daily Planet and was forced to take a series of odd jobs—from taxi driver to vacuum-cleaner salesman—until finally, after he had rescued Perry White from death at the hands of syndicate gangsters on several occasions, both as Clark Kent and as Superman, and after he had turned in an exclusive account of Superman's crusade against the syndicate, White finally granted him a job as a reporter (May 1950: "Clark Kent’s Career!"). According to a conflicting account presented in Superman No. 133/2, however, Kent applied for a reporter's job at the Daily Planet, was given a series of trivial "test" assignments—such as visiting the Metropolis Zoo for a story of an aging gorilla—by editor Perry White in lieu of an outright brush-off, and finally won his post on the Daily Planet by using his Superman powers to transform each dull, routing assignment into an electrifying news event and then handing in exclusive accounts of these events as would-be reporter Kent (Nov 1959: "How Perry White Hired Clark Kent!"). Both these accounts may be safely be regarded as spurious, for Clark Kent really begin his journalistic career on the Daily Star, the forerunner in the chronicles of the Daily Planet, by thwarting a lynching at the county jail in his Superman identity and then phoning in an exclusive account of the events as would-be reporter Clark Kent (S No. 1/1, Sum 1939)."

http://supermanica.info/wiki/index.php/Daily_Planet


So, what about was this thread again?

All should read that wiki article, there are many fun factors that would make someone think to before complaining about Smallville again.


This part is so funny:

"Lois, in particular, is fiercely, sometimes unscrupulously, competitive, resorting to such tactics as intercepting Kent’s telephone messages (S No. 14, Jan/Feb 1942; and others), sending him off on wild-goose chases (Act No. 5, Oct 1938; and others), and even seducing him into letting her accompany him on an interview and then slipping knockout drops into his drink so that she can cover the story alone(Act No.6, Nov 1938)."

Yes, written by SHUSTER & SIEGEL. I dare someone to say that's wrong.

[Kal-ed]

Well said timster.

I can understand people disliking Lois Lane´s methods and lack of ethics what I can not understand is people giving Smallville´s Lois crap for being exactly how she´s supposed to be and how she´s been for 70 years and counting.

[SueB]

I dare someone to say that's wrong.

It's wrong. I apparently don't like Lois in the comics. I would prefer her to be a more ethical individual.

Just because it's in the comics doesn't mean "it's right". This is Smallville's interpretation of the Superman backstory --- if I was interested in the comics, I would read them. "Consistent" doesn't make "right" in my book. I don't pray to the comic book authors as error free and all knowing individuals. The Lois Lane of SV lived with the Kents in her late teens/early 20's, you would have thought she'd have developed better ethics.

Even if the creators have a vision of Lois (like 50-70 years ago) that the only way a woman can succeed is to be underhanded doesn't mean that ancient view(1938, for pity's sake) is a good model for 2008.

So, for the record Timester.... I reject the premise that if it is in the comics book it is "right".

[harryandginnyfanatic]

It's ironic how if not for the comics this show wouldn't even exist.

And I suppose Chloe's hacking for Clark is ethical only because it's her doing it and not Lois?

[SueB]

And I suppose Chloe's hacking for Clark is ethical because it's her doing it and not Lois?

The article is about a real journalist's impression of SV journalism. That's it. It's not a comparison of Chloe vs Lois or Lois vs the comics. I would expect that if he was to comment on Chloe's hacking, he'd call foul. I'd bet he'd call foul on the resource use and the interrupting of a wire transfer too. That would be completely consistent with the article.

The argument I think that is being made is that because Lois is unethical in the comics, it is okay that she is unethical in SV. I disagree. It's 2008 and a woman can succeed without being unethical. As for Chloe, whether or not she is ethical is not relevant to whether or not it's okay for Lois to be ethical. Personally, I think many of the moments could be justified by truth, justice, and the American Way (as opposed to "get a front page headline") BUT, that doesn't make me think that Chloe has always demonstrated great ethics. I think she enjoys the hacking a little too much.

Again, the discussion is on Lois -- what does Chloe's ethics have to do with it?

[harryandginnyfanatic]

The guy who wrote that needs to learn the difference between fantasy and reality.

This show can't be 100% realistic.

If it were Clark wouldn't always wear that stupid red jacket. And he wouldn't be an alien.

[Timester]

So, for the record Timester.... I reject the premise that if it is in the comics book it is "right".

You are joking, right?

You know, Joe Shuster and Jerry Siegel, the ones that created Lois Lane and Clark Kent? You are telling they are wrong????? :confused:

That's the same like defending that Romeo should be gay just because you didn't like what Shakespeare wrote.

You don't like the Superman story, lets face it. But that doesn't give you the right saying that's wrong and change the story loved by millions for 70 years.

----- Added 43 Seconds later -----


Again, the discussion is on Lois -- what does Chloe's ethics have to do with it?

Double standards.

[SueB]

You are joking, right?

Not at all. I liked the Smallville interpretation of the Superman backstory. Over the years, as far as I can tell, there are numerous "versions" of the comics. So much so that they reboot to different versions on more than one occasion. So.. I liked the Smallville version of young Clark Kent. This differed by at least the following:
- Clark met Lex when young
- Lois lived with the Kents while under the age of 20
- Clark has met many many heroes and villains that in other incarnations he met after putting on the suit and learning to fly

the list goes on and on... the point is that Smallville has some differences. Surely making Lois more ethical in SV is not an earth-shattering change compared to meeting Lex when young or working at the DP without the trademark glasses or other disguise.

If they are okay to bend the hallowed 1938 interpretation of Superman in other areas, what is the big deal if they make Lois more ethical and less dependent on feminine charm. Seriously, what self-respecting professional woman flirts her way through life in 2008?

And as for "if it's in the comics, it's right"... well it seems to me that I would need a lawyer to de-conflict all the various inconsistencies between comic book "ages" before we had the definitive "right". Is there NO version of the comics book where Lois is more ethical? Certainly the woman describe in the article referenced by DontCha doesn't match what I recall from the CR movies. Lois was spunky and a go-getter but she didn't strike me as particularly unethical.

There is a difference b/w modernizing a story and "reinterpreting it" and wholesale changing the premise. I'm not advocating Clark Kent shouldn't become Superman or not fly or not be from Krypton. I'm asking that Lois be closer to a 2008 tough professional woman who does not have to rely on unethical techniques nor "feminine charm" to accomplish her goals.

Bottom line: there are too many versions of the Superman story and too many differences that already exist in Smallville IMO to hold up the idea that it has to line up with the 1938 comics or it's invalid.

[Smallville6]

Wow guys, this is still going on?
Cant we just all agree to disagree and move on? :)
I know you all want to defend the character/ship, but your not gonna change anyone's mind in what they believe in. So whats the point? All this fighting is just causing anger and frustration.

[harryandginnyfanatic]

change compared to meeting Lex when young

Actually, the comics are where they got that idea from.

[Minela]

Surely making Lois more ethical in SV is not an earth-shattering change compared to meeting Lex when young.

Actually it is more earth-shattering. You are asking for a change of a character's core personality over a simple thing like meeting Lex (which by the way was covered in comics). Also, Lois Lane in the comics nor on Smallville is an unethical person. Lois would not steal money or material possessions for personal gain, she would never hurt Chloe, Clark, Jimmy, etc. intentionally or with malice. She raised her little sister from a very young age, and she is not only out for the byline, she is also out for truth and justice. When she investigated Chloe's death it was not for the gain and glory. When she fought for Wes' military jacket it wasn't for that either. When she looked after Maddie it wasn't for a story. When she worked for Jonathan and Martha she did nothing unethical. And since you bring up Ma and Pa Kent as paragons of virtue, I want to remind you that it was Martha who accepted Lionel's bribe and it was both Jonathan and Martha who enlisted Lionel's help to forge Clark's adoption papers.


If they are okay to bend the hallowed 1938 interpretation of Superman in other areas, what is the big deal if they make Lois more ethical and less dependent on feminine charm. Seriously, what self-respecting professional woman flirts her way through life in 2008?

What about the 1990s? What about Terri Hatcher's Lois Lane? She was specifically modeled to be a very modern woman. It says so in all the interviews. Still, she is spot on Lois Lane (although in some areas different than the comics, but still, her core is not unchanged). Lois Lane in the show "Lois and Clark" was nothing if not a serial B&E artist, used bribes as well as feminine charm and don't get me even started on stealing. Plus, she stole a story from Clark, her fellow co-worker.


And as for "if it's in the comics, it's right"... well it seems to me that I would need a lawyer to de-conflict all the various inconsistencies between comic book "ages" before we had the definitive "right". Is there NO version of the comics book where Lois is more ethical? Certainly the woman describe in the article referenced by DontCha doesn't match what I recall from the CR movies. Lois was spunky and a go-getter but she didn't strike me as particularly unethical.

It really doesn't matter what "age" you look at, or what TV show (yes, even the one you were referring to), the core traits of Lois Lane and/or Clark Kent have never changed. They have always been the same people throughout the years. Yes, Lois at some points was a one woman mission to get Superman to marry her, or she was a wild feminist, or she was constantly reffered to as "girl-reporter" instead of reporter. But in all those times in which her character has changed to fit the times, she has never ever lost her core personality nor has she ever been watered down.


There is a difference b/w modernizing a story and "reinterpreting it" and wholesale changing the premise. I'm not advocating Clark Kent shouldn't become Superman or not fly or not be from Krypton. I'm asking that Lois be closer to a 2008 tough professional woman who does not have to rely on unethical techniques nor "feminine charm" to accomplish her goals.

You are not advocating that Clark doesn't become Superman, but you are advocating that Lois Lane all of a sudden get a personality transplant and when faced with a difficult situation just shrug her shoulders and say, "Darn, I sure wish that nice police officer would let me look at his file, but there is just no way I can get him to do that. If only there was an ethically acceptable way for me to peek at those files. Oh, well. Maybe next time it won't be so difficult. Gee, I just don't know what I'd do if the cheef wanted me to infiltrate a gangster's nightclub. How in the world would I go under cover? As a bouncer? A legal secretary only interested in helping them out with their accounting? Oh, and even worse, what if the cheef wanted me to get dirt on the Luthors? Lord knows they keep all their secrets looked up and since it's unethical for me to break into their office, well, I would just have to pass.".

Seriously. :rolleyes:


Bottom line: there are too many versions of the Superman story and too many differences that already exist in Smallville IMO to hold up the idea that it has to line up with the 1938 comics or it's invalid.

It doesn't have to line up with the Action Comics #1 100%, of course. It shouldn't. Times change, etc. If you'd look at a new Superman comic, you'd find that the characters there are quite up to date and relevant to the times. But it simply cannot stray from the core story so far, that it's unrecognizable.

If you read "Red Son" which is a Superman story of "what if Kal El had landed in a Communist SSR instead of America?" you will still see a recognizable Superman story, even though most of the things about his origin etc. have been changed. Hell, he isn't even a journalist, nor married to Lois Lane. Still, the core characters are the same, they act in character and it is a recognizable Superman story. Even though his suit isn't even the familiar red and blue.

[TheLeague]

He is a self described comic enthusiast who is also a journalist.


clearly he needs to brush up on his comics quite a bit :rolleyes:

personally i like how clois on smallville is going because its a MODERN VERSION of how a working relationship would work remember back in the days women had to fight hard to earn such a high a position in a job as men

i like the way the feelings for each other build aswell it brings the lois and clark relationship into a modern world very well based on secrets and hidden emotions and stuff.


people seem to forget the age in which jerry and joe set theyre comic book story although its the mythos smallville has really evolved the clois relationship from what it was like back then to possibly how it would be made today

[SueB]

but you are advocating that Lois Lane all of a sudden get a personality transplant

Not at all. I'm saying she needs to be more ethical. I didn't say she should turn passive.

Even reading your post, it's clear to me the most ardent fans have their own interpretation of who is Lois. Your post directly conflicts with DontCha's as I see it regarding "ethical or unethical".

The short answer is that there are shades here that could be played and they've taken SV Lois to a greater extreme than they need to IMO.

ETA:
I think I've made it clear in at least 3 posts that B&E and hacking are "par for the course" in the SV universe. Three things Lois did that I don't think "had" to be that way for her to still be a strong Lois Lane:
- defaut flirt attitude to get what she wants --- this is a male fantasy that this is how strong independent women acts. It's offensive --- really, as someone who has been successful in two male dominated professions, I can tell you this is the exact opposite of how to get ahead. I think it is more of an intrinsic trait in Lois that she is good at her job than she flirts to get her way. Only in a male fantasy are the two (good at your job and using sex to get what you want) the same. Women are far more competent than that and it certainly is not the default of any professional woman yet it appears to be Lois's ("flirt up keys", "used my feminine charms" and immediate approach towards the police officer --- she didn't even TRY to ask a question normally).
- bribing the officer as her second option. Further sliding down the ethical slope. If she was a smart woman she wouldn't try that angle let alone go to it as the next best option after the feminine charm failed. It made her look both dumb and unethical.
- recording Clark's conversation without his knowledge. This one was jarring. I get that it's completely consistent with comics Lois Lane. But it seems fairly inconsistent with the laundry list of good things you wrote down for the SV version of Lois. It's like they not only retconned her reporting skills, they retconned her integrity. I always felt Lois (S4-7) had far more integrity than what she showed in Plastique. Plastique was jarrring to me for her character traits. Some are clearly seeing this as a good thing because it fits their idea of how Lois should act. Me, it looks like a slip backwards.

Again, it feels more like a caricature than character.


One more thing: those two incidents of bad choices by Ma & Pa Kent were HUGE storylines where they struggled with the choice and the outcome. Lois forgets she makes these choices within seconds of doing so. It's not that she wont make some bad choices, it's that it doesn't even appear to be on her radar screen that she is doing something wrong. Lois should know the difference between right and wrong.

[Timester]

Sorry, but no. You are saying that the story that I and millions love for the past 70 years should change because you think is "wrong". I honestly don't care if you think is unethical or offensive, this is how the story is. For the past 70 years.

[SueB]

You are saying that the story that I and millions love for the past 70 years should change because you think is "wrong".

This is an oversimplification of what I said, by a long shot, but I think we'll just have to disagree on this one.

[Timester]

This is an oversimplification of what I said, by a long shot, but I think we'll just have to disagree on this one.

Nope, it's very simple, the story has been this for the past 70 years, you don't like and want to change it.

Just look what happened to Catwoman.

[unfocused]

Timester is awesome at rejecting peoples' posts :lol:

Hasn't someone already proved that EDLois and all other variations of the character are pretty much habitually identical or at least similar enough?. So I really don't see anything wrong, unless one is complaining about the general character of Lois Lane and not an actresses interpretation of the character.

If this is the case, Timester is right. You have to accept it. It's not going to change :)

[SueB]

Timester is awesome at rejecting peoples' posts

Au contraire. He's stating opinion as fact as far as I can tell - but it's not against board rules... so have a ball. Further, someone else besides me interpreting my opinion and stating it in their own words does not make it my opinion. I could argue all day but it won't change the argument on either side so I'm moving on. "It's been this way because it's been this way so it'll be this way" is my opinion of Timesters' position. I don't find it a compelling argument for me, it's pretty cyclical, but I'm trying to to not weigh the board down so I'm moving on because there's nothing new to add.


unless one is complaining about the general character of Lois Lane and not an actresses interpretation of the character.

I'm arguing that there is enough wiggle room in the interpretation (without undermining the fundamentals of the character) that the extreme version as portrayed in SV is not a good choice.

[unfocused]

The Lois Lane version in SV is the same as every other version. So it's the perfect choice.

Like Timester said, you want SV to change what 70 years of mythos has created for this character. And that's just wrong.

----- Added 2 Minutes later -----


Au contraire. He's stating opinion as fact as far as I can tell - but it's not against board rules... so have a ball.

Sorry, I was referring to the way he rejected you by plainly saying "Nope" and "Sorry, but no." I found it funny.

[Minela]

- defaut flirt attitude to get what she wants --- this is a male fantasy that this is how strong independent women acts. It's offensive --- really, as someone who has been successful in two male dominated professions, I can tell you this is the exact opposite of how to get ahead. I think it is more of an intrinsic trait in Lois that she is good at her job than she flirts to get her way. Only in a male fantasy are the two (good at your job and using sex to get what you want) the same.

As a woman, and a professional I have to disagree. I thought we were over that whole extreme feminist thing since the 90s. But that's a whole different issue, let's just agree to disagree before we get into more personal stuff.

I would just love to hear from you, how you would write an episode and have Lois get out of situations she finds herself in without crossing your personal ethical boundaries and making the show entertaining to watch.

Two examples: In Lois and Clark, Lois wanted to speak to Eugine who was just sentenced by a jury (she believed he was innocent), but there was a guard at the front door. A guard she apparently already knew. He wasn't supposed to let her in, but she bribed him (incidentally even using some feminine charm). Perfect Lois Lane moment, but unethical and archaic in your eyes. How would you write it?

Second example is from Smallville's 'Exposed'. A girl was just killed, she works in a shady nightclub. Lois needs info. How would she go about getting it without resourcing to feminine charm and or B&E/bribing?

----- Added 1 Minutes later -----


Nope, it's very simple, the story has been this for the past 70 years, you don't like and want to change it.

Just look what happened to Catwoman.

Now you just made me cry. :( I hope you're happy Timester.

[SueB]

In Lois and Clark, Lois wanted to speak to Eugine who was just sentenced by a jury (she believed he was innocent), but there was a guard at the front door. A guard she apparently already knew. He wasn't supposed to let her in, but she bribed him (incidentally even using some feminine charm). Perfect Lois Lane moment, but unethical and archaic in your eyes. How would you write it?

I didn't watch Lois & Clark --- but a comedy show is a different kind of a show typically. There are serious moments but the characters are often written in a more extreme, sometimes slapstick manner. Again, not a watcher, so real commentary is not a good choice here.


Second example is from Smallville's 'Exposed'. A girl was just killed, she works in a shady nightclub. Lois needs info. How would she go about getting it without resourcing to feminine charm and or B&E/bribing?

Actually, in "Exposed" Lois was undercover. That's a little different too in my book. Further, Lois didn't relish it. She acted very uncomfortable and awkward --- that fits with what I would have expect as well. The meta of the show put the episode in a strip joint in order to get Erica in a bikini but within the context of the show, that made more sense to me.

In S8, there is nothing awkward or uncomfortable, the circumstances don't demand she use feminine charm ... this is just who she is.