This is a disappointing end to the Veritas story

[dru-zod2501]

That THIS MEAN, SCARY SCARY END TO THE VERITAS STORYLINE, THAT THE SCARY END THAT THEY NEEDED TO KEEP HIM AWAY FROM AT ALL COSTS WAS JUST THAT CLARK WOULD BE POWERLESS, **** we've seen that before and that didn't mean half the **** it meant now. Way to start thins PS3 or whoever you are

[cousteau]

Actually I think it was a perfect ending to the veritas storyline - it said bye to gough and millar by cutting ties.

[AndiGirl]

^^

I was actually confused about that, was that the end....or did Jor-el take away his powers so he couldnt be controlled?

[xrayvision]

All I can say is---to hell with the Veritas story. I didn't like it & wanna forget it ever existed. They could have done it much better had they made major changes to it and actually shown the events on the show throughout all those years (starting in seasons 4 or 5) rather than those ridiculously stupid side projects where you need specific products (e.g. a Sprint cellphone) to see. But that's water under the bridge that was crossed a long time ago.

The way Al/Miles left it off was very stupid and made it very hard for anyone to explain. It was dumb to have such a device that could control Clark anyway. They suggested that Jor-El made it, even though it was created about 100-200 years before Jor-El's time. Rather than dealing with nonsense storylines that were impossible to explain, they did the smart thing and scrapped it all. And I was very happy with that.

Had they been smart, they would not have made that device be one that controls Clark, but instead the Eradicator itself. That is the one Kryptonian thing they really need to introduce on the show. And given that Doomsday is here this season, I hope they follow the comics and have the Eradicator heal Clark.

[haydenclaireheroes]

i never liked the vartes story!!

[Skybound]

Al, and Miles were the ones with the Varitas story, the other writers I don't think liked it.

[Kal26]

I think the point of Jor-El taking away his powers was to keep him from being used as a weapon by Lex, or anyone else. If I've learned anything from watching this show, it's that story lines like Veritas don't end. It will be popping up again, I'm sure of it. They just want us to think it's over.

[minerva73]

Al, and Miles were the ones with the Varitas story, the other writers I don't think liked it.

^But the other writers continued to execute that idea pretty well when AlMiles started packing their bags and leaving. By Sleeper, they were pretty much done with the show IMO. Then PS3 took control of the Veritas story and it looked pretty good from what they did in Quest and parts of Arctic, but this was just a big letdown to conclude the whole thing...

I agree with xrayvision about being glad that it's over.

[unfocused]

Actually I think it was a perfect ending to the veritas storyline - it said bye to gough and millar by cutting ties.
I agree with this.

The way PS3 are handling Veritas just gives me more confidence in them to finish this story on an iconic note.

[susangail]

What Veritas story? :rotfl:

[xrayvision]

^^LOL!!

[kavalier]

We still dont know how Doomsday will tie into all of this. His appearance might very well end up being a direct consequence of the events last season. Thats what im hoping for anyway.

[BadToad]

I think the Veritas story was ill-conceived, because it never really could've had an ending that would've made sense with the hype. A story like that really needed to be carefully built up year-after-year, not just thrown together in S7. I think there's really not a lot of choice but to abandon it and go onto something else. The story doesn't have much place to go.

[Deana]

Veritas sucked anyway. Who cares how it dies as long as it doesn't become a zombie and stays in the grave where it belongs.

[xrayvision]

A story like that really needed to be carefully built up year-after-year, not just thrown together in S7.

Exactly what I say, Badtoad. It could have been great. But they chose to write some of the most important parts of the mythos in side projects that the majority of fans didn't even see. Things like Lexana & Clana were more important to them.

[Meteror Freak]

I absolutely loved the veritas story. It was so awesome and was the perfect and really only way to properly give Lionel a good send-off. I didn't think it was a fitting end to the veritas storyline at all, but we still don't know what happened to Lex. I'm sure there was more to the orb than just deleting the fortress and making clark normal. What I don't get is why would the fortress destroy itself if it was just going to leave behind the creation crystal?????

[s3dsmv]

Blah, the past is the past. Lets go season 8!

[unfocused]

But I'm afraid the Veritas story will continue in some way in season 8. How Tess looked at the V symbol on the window...

[Iolanthe]

The whole Veritas thing was ridiculous and contrived but here is one thing:

Maybe that purple crystal at the end of Season Seven is something that makes the Fortress go back into its "seed-like" state (i.e., the S-shield-shaped blue crystal that Tess had in the briefcase at the end of Episode 1).

We know that the AI in the Fortress is capable of controlling Clark. The writers have shown us that over the years.

We also know that the Teagues and others were searching for the 3 stones that formed the crystal (blah blah blah, all of Season Four).

So the implication is that it doesn't have to be Clark who controls the Fortress - maybe whoever gets there first and throws it into the Arctic wasteland becomes the landlord, owner, top banana of the Fortress. That was suggested in Season Four as one of the motives for everyone wanting to get to the crystals first.

So: Lex gets purple crystal thingy at end of Season Seven. Uses it on Fortress. Fortress regresses back to inchoate, seed state where anyone can form it and be the Master of the Fortress. New Fortress has vague, undefined, but certainly god-like powers, and can be used to control Clark (among other things).

What do you think?

[xrayvision]

I absolutely loved the veritas story. It was so awesome and was the perfect and really only way to properly give Lionel a good send-off. I didn't think it was a fitting end to the veritas storyline at all, but we still don't know what happened to Lex. I'm sure there was more to the orb than just deleting the fortress and making clark normal. What I don't get is why would the fortress destroy itself if it was just going to leave behind the creation crystal?????

I really hated how Lionel died solely because of Veritas and not because of the history between him & Lex. That was the most disappointing thing about Descent. Had Lex not thought Lionel had the key and thought that someone else did, Lionel would have been alive today and Lex would have killed that someone else instead. This tarnishing of Lionel's death & the reason behind it really made me hate Veritas much more than I otherwise would have.

----- Added 8 Minutes later -----


The whole Veritas thing was ridiculous and contrived but here is one thing:

Maybe that purple crystal at the end of Season Seven is something that makes the Fortress go back into its "seed-like" state (i.e., the S-shield-shaped blue crystal that Tess had in the briefcase at the end of Episode 1).

We know that the AI in the Fortress is capable of controlling Clark. The writers have shown us that over the years.

We also know that the Teagues and others were searching for the 3 stones that formed the crystal (blah blah blah, all of Season Four).

So the implication is that it doesn't have to be Clark who controls the Fortress - maybe whoever gets there first and throws it into the Arctic wasteland becomes the landlord, owner, top banana of the Fortress. That was suggested in Season Four as one of the motives for everyone wanting to get to the crystals first.

So: Lex gets purple crystal thingy at end of Season Seven. Uses it on Fortress. Fortress regresses back to inchoate, seed state where anyone can form it and be the Master of the Fortress. New Fortress has vague, undefined, but certainly god-like powers, and can be used to control Clark (among other things).

What do you think?

Not true because of 1 thing:

In Commencement, when Clark had 2 out of the 3 stones placed in the altar in the cave, Jor-El transferred himself from the cave, through the altar & into the 2 unified stones in the altar AND the Water stone in Lionel's pocket (which is the reason why Lionel became Jor-El's vessel/oracle/emissary). So given these events, Jor-El's presence had transported itself into the unified crystal that formed the FOS that now reappeared after the FOS was broken down into its elements. So either way, Jor-El's presence is now in that crystal. This is true because Jor-El was absent from the cave ever since those very events in Commencement.

Now if they're smart, they'd explain that orb as the Eradicator, which can take over the FOS and commence its own agenda and create a body for itself that is identical to Clark's (the traveler's/Naman's). So in that way, it would be able to control the Traveler--by becoming him. And if they're even smarter, they would make the Eradicator reconstruct the FOS & restore the Kryptonian ways but instead on Earth, causing all sorts of problems & make Clark be the one who would clean up after these messes, save lives, prevent people from dying, and ultimately learn how to control it so he can use it when he battles Doomsday as he needed its help in the comics when he did the same thing.

[Meteror Freak]

Lex didn't kill Lionel for the key. After he ripped the key from Lionel's neck he could have left, but he chose to give his father a little push in the wrong direction. His father had just told him his last lie, and Lex was finally fed up.

However, i like your eradicator idea. In the early seasons i though the kiwatche caves were the eradicator. It would be cool if they brought it into the show.

[Kal26]

Exactly what I say, Badtoad. It could have been great. But they chose to write some of the most important parts of the mythos in side projects that the majority of fans didn't even see. Things like Lexana & Clana were more important to them.

That's exactly what I liked about it. People didn't see it unless they really looked. That's the kind of viewer I like to be. Not the kind that hangs on the main emphasis of the story, but the kind that looks for what's going on in the background. Then, when the background becomes the foreground it feels like you've been putting together pieces of a puzzle. When watching the seasons again to get ready for season seven on dvd, I was able to pick up on much of the foreshadowing for veritas, and it was pretty cool.

[Sneefomaster]

maybe i'm wrong but i think the Veritas thing might have been thrown in last season cuz of the writers' strike and the show's possible ending. like many others i hated it and am glad that we've seen the end of it.

[Kal26]

I really hated how Lionel died solely because of Veritas and not because of the history between him & Lex. That was the most disappointing thing about Descent. Had Lex not thought Lionel had the key and thought that someone else did, Lionel would have been alive today and Lex would have killed that someone else instead. This tarnishing of Lionel's death & the reason behind it really made me hate Veritas much more than I otherwise would have.


I definitely think it was the build up of hatred for Lionel that lead Lex to kill him. Not just Veritas. He could have taken the key, or found what he needed to find without killing Lionel. We've watched his feelings for Lionel change from that of a son craving love from his father, to that of a man with nothing but hatred for the father who betrayed him. It's been a great arc in my opinion.

[unfocused]

It's been a great arc in my opinion.

Veritas? The Lex/Lionel relationship? or both?

[Kal26]

Both. Individually and the way they combined in the end.

[the highlander]

Veritas? The Lex/Lionel relationship? or both?

"... all my life, I have lived in your shadows... Now you will die in mine..."

[unfocused]

Both. Individually and the way they combined in the end.

Ah. Great. I was just curious about your opinion.

[xrayvision]

He could have taken the key, or found what he needed to find without killing Lionel. We've watched his feelings for Lionel change from that of a son craving love from his father, to that of a man with nothing but hatred for the father who betrayed him. It's been a great arc in my opinion.

I have to disagree, because with Veritas, he didn't leave anyone in his path alive. He had Patricia Swann killed for her key and it was inevitable that he would have done the same to whoever had the 2nd key. We did see Lex go from wanting Lionel to love him to at times despising him, but throughout season 7 Lex was never shown hating Lionel, even after Lionel had the reaction that he did when he found out Grant was a clone of Julian. Lionel still stood by Lex (as seen in Fracture) and I saw no increasing hostility between the two that would have made Lex choose that specific time to kill Lionel.

I don't have any doubts about it. The only reason Lex killed Patricia & Lionel was because they both would have known it was him had he stolen their keys & not killed them. Lex was also very focused on Veritas & the keys at that time. Had his memory (in Veritas) instead revealed that Edward Teague had the 2nd key, there's just no way he would have made a stop to Luthorcorp (before going to look for Teague) to kill Lionel. The only way Lionel would have died under those circumstances is by Lex covering up his tracks in pursuit of the Veritas secret. And killing off Lionel like that would still have overlooked all those years of stuff that went on between Lex & Lionel and made Lionel's death be the result of Veritas instead of the history between the 2.

----- Added 9 Minutes later -----


That's exactly what I liked about it. People didn't see it unless they really looked. That's the kind of viewer I like to be. Not the kind that hangs on the main emphasis of the story, but the kind that looks for what's going on in the background. Then, when the background becomes the foreground it feels like you've been putting together pieces of a puzzle. When watching the seasons again to get ready for season seven on dvd, I was able to pick up on much of the foreshadowing for veritas, and it was pretty cool.

The problem is that the background was not even in the show. In at least one case, you needed to have a Sprint cellphone to see that stuff. What kind of mythos writing is that? If it was in the background of the show, that would be one thing, but it wasn't. And they couldn't even keep the story straight like the reason behind the destruction of Krypton, which went from the supernova of Rao/W5 (Krypton's sun as revealed in Skinwalker when Kyla pointed out that a star was missing), Zod's fault (as revealed in Vessel/Kara), Zor-El's fault (as pointed out in Kara & the Chronicles of Krypton), and finally back to being the result of the supernova of Rao/W5 as seen in Apocalypse.

I wanted all the important mythos stuff to be presented in the show. I wanted characters like Clark & Lex finding out about it & seeing their reactions to it. Instead it was all done in offscreenville and all the potentially great plots were lost. And had they done it on the show, it would have been easier to keep track of the facts so they wouldn't have contradicted themselves.

[minerva73]

Today I just realized why I feel that it's a disappointing ending. It's because Clark was never controlled (like many people said) and that just threw away all of the ranting and screaming that Lionel did in S7. Also, all of those lives that Lex threw away, he killed them in order for Clark to lose his powers...

I also realized what I wanted to see in Odyssey. I wanted to see Clark being controlled by the orb just like Chloe and Oliver were controlled by that drug that they were injected with. Then the Justice League met Clark in the Russian camp and the Russian man commands Clark to fight the JL since the orb didn't wear off yet. Then Clark beats them and the JL goes and finds some other crystal and uses it to wear off the effects of the Veritas orb. Then Clark can lose his powers and they could continue with the whole episode starting from when they got to the research facility since I actually liked when MM rescued him and the flashbacks he had. It'd seem more meaningful if Clark lost his powers after having the control thing wear off instead of having him lose his powers because of what the controlling orb was doing to him IMO.

I didn't like how Oliver was the only person to find Clark and how we basically got cheated from the whole "controlling" plot. If they were going to do that, then they should've taught Lex about the effects of Blue K on Clark. :\

[Dor el]

The writers may or may not return to the orb controls Clark plot. But, Lex is not dead, Clark is not in possession of the orb, and he doesn't know where either is. So, it is conceivable that there may yet be an answer to the someone controls Clark plot line.

[mistaguitarmasta]

I didn't hate the Veritas arc, per se, but I wasn't thrilled with its execution. It left sort of a bad taste in my mouth. I felt that this was an excellent way to wrap it up, tie up the loose ends, and take a huge leap forward in the story's progression.

[Addictedtosmllvill]

I thought that the veritas plot was strangely put together and didn't really work with the character development. Good Ridance. I was bored anyways, and am ready to move forward with all the superman stuff they plan on doing, which is what I always wanted from this show in the first place!

[LuckyKrypto]

^^

I was actually confused about that, was that the end....or did Jor-el take away his powers so he couldnt be controlled?

I thought that was what happened. That JorEl took his powers away so he wouldn't be controlled.

As for it being the ending, I guess I missed that things had been wrapped up. Feels to me that it's still out there. With all the focus about Lex still missing it just seemed to me that they were putting it more on the back burner. It would seem that you would need Lex to finish up this story line.:\

[dru-zod2501]

I thought that was what happened. That JorEl took his powers away so he wouldn't be controlled.
When Chloe noticed he was powerless, Clark mentions something like "turns out by 'controlling me' they meant make me powerless" to paraphrase, so I guess he's weak enough to be controlled by other men. controlling the traveller is useless without his powers might as well put a bullet in him and call it a day

[redRound]

I didn't like the Veritas story. The idea that Lionel knew about the Traveller etc.. Or in fact the whole business about the Traveller, so my dislike extends to the Kwatche cave story, which also went nowhere.

[Kal26]

I have to disagree, because with Veritas, he didn't leave anyone in his path alive. He had Patricia Swann killed for her key and it was inevitable that he would have done the same to whoever had the 2nd key. We did see Lex go from wanting Lionel to love him to at times despising him, but throughout season 7 Lex was never shown hating Lionel, even after Lionel had the reaction that he did when he found out Grant was a clone of Julian. Lionel still stood by Lex (as seen in Fracture) and I saw no increasing hostility between the two that would have made Lex choose that specific time to kill Lionel.

I don't have any doubts about it. The only reason Lex killed Patricia & Lionel was because they both would have known it was him had he stolen their keys & not killed them. Lex was also very focused on Veritas & the keys at that time. Had his memory (in Veritas) instead revealed that Edward Teague had the 2nd key, there's just no way he would have made a stop to Luthorcorp (before going to look for Teague) to kill Lionel. The only way Lionel would have died under those circumstances is by Lex covering up his tracks in pursuit of the Veritas secret. And killing off Lionel like that would still have overlooked all those years of stuff that went on between Lex & Lionel and made Lionel's death be the result of Veritas instead of the history between the 2.


No, he wouldn't have made a special stop by Luthorcorp to kill Lionel, but I'm afraid we can't see eye to eye on the build up to Lionels death, or the hate Lex felt for him. Lex has been seen constantly hating Lionel. Not telling him about the key was just the final straw in a long line of deceptions. Don't forget, Lionel had recently given his love to Lex, then somewhat retracted it when he told him that he was lost. Lex after all had spent his whole life trying to win the affection of those he thought he needed it from. He couldn't keep the respect of Clark, Lana, Grant, who he killed because he didn't turn out the way he wanted, and now Lionel, who he has finally seen will stand between himself and his ends. This is unacceptable to Lex. Lionel chose to protect the traveler rather than trust his son. Did veritas drive the nail in the coffin, probably, but there's no doubt in my mind he would have come to it regardless.


The problem is that the background was not even in the show. In at least one case, you needed to have a Sprint cellphone to see that stuff. What kind of mythos writing is that? If it was in the background of the show, that would be one thing, but it wasn't. And they couldn't even keep the story straight like the reason behind the destruction of Krypton, which went from the supernova of Rao/W5 (Krypton's sun as revealed in Skinwalker when Kyla pointed out that a star was missing), Zod's fault (as revealed in Vessel/Kara), Zor-El's fault (as pointed out in Kara & the Chronicles of Krypton), and finally back to being the result of the supernova of Rao/W5 as seen in Apocalypse.

I wanted all the important mythos stuff to be presented in the show. I wanted characters like Clark & Lex finding out about it & seeing their reactions to it. Instead it was all done in offscreenville and all the potentially great plots were lost. And had they done it on the show, it would have been easier to keep track of the facts so they wouldn't have contradicted themselves.

I was under the impression that the destruction of Krypton came from a combination of things. Zor-El was in with Zod, and they could have been responsible for the destruction of the sun, and the planet. The planet could have been destroyed causing the sun to go as well, or the sun could have been used to destroy the planet. Also, I would think that a planet missing, would look like a star was missing from this far away. We can see Venus as if it were a star, if it were gone tomorrow, it would look as if a star were missing. Besides, in that close a proximity, and that big of an explosion, I would think if one went, so would the other. The in the back ground stuff I'm talking about was stuff like the teague's deaths being shown in the Pilot. Why would that be there if not to set us up for something. Why would Lionel be so familiar with Mrs. teague, and he and Swan seemed awfully awkward when they came together in earlier seasons. Almost as if they knew each other. I don't want to see characters like Clark and Lex find out about it, and talk about it, because that lays all the cards on the table. It would just seem hokey to me. As for the cell phone thing, I call that genius marketing. It's always possible that they worked Veritas in after the fact, but if they did, they did a really good job of finding little things that could have added to it throughout the seasons imo, and imo that would have been really hard to do if the notion hadn't existed. Either way, I both respect it, and like it.

[xrayvision]

No, he wouldn't have made a special stop by Luthorcorp to kill Lionel, but I'm afraid we can't see eye to eye on the build up to Lionels death, or the hate Lex felt for him. Lex has been seen constantly hating Lionel. Not telling him about the key was just the final straw in a long line of deceptions. Don't forget, Lionel had recently given his love to Lex, then somewhat retracted it when he told him that he was lost. Lex after all had spent his whole life trying to win the affection of those he thought he needed it from. He couldn't keep the respect of Clark, Lana, Grant, who he killed because he didn't turn out the way he wanted, and now Lionel, who he has finally seen will stand between himself and his ends. This is unacceptable to Lex. Lionel chose to protect the traveler rather than trust his son. Did veritas drive the nail in the coffin, probably, but there's no doubt in my mind he would have come to it regardless.

I do agree it would have come to it regardless. But the writing definitely made it happen at a time where the momentum of Lex's hatred towards Lionel was being lost. He really hated him towards the end of season 6 and then Lionel became more loving to him. I just wish it wasn't about Veritas. I would have done it by having Lionel do a final act to protect the world or even Clark from Lex that would fail and Lex would come back and kill him for it. That would have been the best way for Lionel to go. This is what I planned for my fanfics since last year sometime (before season 7). When I eventually finish the specific episode where it happens, I would send you a link if you're interested so you can see how good it could have been.


I was under the impression that the destruction of Krypton came from a combination of things. Zor-El was in with Zod, and they could have been responsible for the destruction of the sun, and the planet. The planet could have been destroyed causing the sun to go as well, or the sun could have been used to destroy the planet. Also, I would think that a planet missing, would look like a star was missing from this far away. We can see Venus as if it were a star, if it were gone tomorrow, it would look as if a star were missing. Besides, in that close a proximity, and that big of an explosion, I would think if one went, so would the other. The in the back ground stuff I'm talking about was stuff like the teague's deaths being shown in the Pilot. Why would that be there if not to set us up for something. Why would Lionel be so familiar with Mrs. teague, and he and Swan seemed awfully awkward when they came together in earlier seasons. Almost as if they knew each other. I don't want to see characters like Clark and Lex find out about it, and talk about it, because that lays all the cards on the table. It would just seem hokey to me. As for the cell phone thing, I call that genius marketing. It's always possible that they worked Veritas in after the fact, but if they did, they did a really good job of finding little things that could have added to it throughout the seasons imo, and imo that would have been really hard to do if the notion hadn't existed. Either way, I both respect it, and like it.

I highly doubt they could destroy their sun. Their sun could take all their weapons and vaporize them. Apocalypse set it right by showing that the sun's explosion destroyed the planet & not the other way around. Krypton would be too small for the telescope to see. Even Swann's pictures showed a gaping hole in the galaxy of Krypton. The gas remains of the sun (Rao) could be seen in the satellite imaged in Rosetta.

I assume you meant the Queens death being shown in the Pilot (not the Teagues). I think that was placed there for a reason, but that they didn't know how the story would play out back then. Maybe it was placed because they thought about doing a JLA spinoff from back then if Smallville became a hit. We can't really say for sure. But I actually liked the placement of that newspaper headline.

I didn't get the feeling that Swann & Lionel knew each other as well as the Veritas storyline suggested from their meeting in Legacy. But I don't think that was a problem. What was a problem was Lionel's disinterest in all things Smallville until he noticed Lex spending money that was unaccounted for in season 1 (when he sent Dominic Sanatori to investigate). That started the thing that would get Lionel interested in Smallville as we saw it happen in the show. Lex of course tied up Dominic after drugging him and sent him back to Lionel in the trunk of his car. Lionel then resorted to firing everyone in the Luthorcorp plant in Smallville (in Tempest) and Lex resisted again. When Lionel became blind, he wanted to use his disability to stay with Lex and find out what he was up to in Duplicity. That specific episode truly marks Lionel's interest in Smallville. The very next episode, he was a blind witness to Clark shooting himself in the hand and from that point took an interest in Clark. The problem here is that Lionel in Veritas was said to know where the Traveler was going to land (Smallville), but he never hung around Smallville until season 2. Surely if Lionel knew all that the Veritas plot said he did, he would have combed through Smallville and not given up until he found the Traveler. Even more problematic was how the Kents had a naked boy in sheets in their car and Lionel never questioned anything. If he knew all that, how couldn't he question the Kents need for Lionel's help in adopting Clark? Why would they need his help if there wasn't something strange going on. That should have been a huge blip on his Traveler radar. Also, how could Lionel know where the Traveler was going to land when Virgil Swann (who had all the space technology) didn't. Swann would have checked Smallville years before if he knew. But he didn't until the symbol for hope was burned into the barn and saw the photo in the papers. And I don't think it was credible how they said Lionel killed Swann. He had so much time to kill him, especially in season 3 when he was dying. It doesn't make sense why he did it at that specific time. And it also doesn't make sense how Jason in Commencement knew that Clark was an alien (as seen when he went to the Kent farm) and instead of telling the Kents he was there to help Clark, he tried to kill them. The Teagues were written as an elite, self-serving family who wanted the stones for themselves until the Veritas plot changed their purpose. If Jason was there to serve the Traveler, there's no way he would have given Lana the Air stone and no way he would have released Isobel by taking Lana to the crypt. The Justice & Doom thing I believe started in season 5 after all that ended. The development of Lionel from a distant father into an obsessive guy hell bent on finding the secrets of the caves & those of Clark himself along with the introduction of Swann in Rosetta were some of my favorite storylines in the show, and Veritas is asking me to ignore all that. To forget some of the best writing on the show to me is an insult to its greatness & the seasons I loved most.

But, like you I didn't want to see Clark & Lex lay their cards on the table. I wanted them to each secretly dig and find out more about their destinies and how things happened as they did (like they did with the stones, but to give these mythos storylines more exposure in the show).

Like I said, I respect the intentions, but it was really too little too late. I would much rather have bits & pieces of that stuff revealed throughout the seasons and get better storylines as a result rather than see Lexana, Clark depend on Chloe, Clana, etc, etc.

[Kal26]

I do agree it would have come to it regardless. But the writing definitely made it happen at a time where the momentum of Lex's hatred towards Lionel was being lost. He really hated him towards the end of season 6 and then Lionel became more loving to him. I just wish it wasn't about Veritas. I would have done it by having Lionel do a final act to protect the world or even Clark from Lex that would fail and Lex would come back and kill him for it. That would have been the best way for Lionel to go. This is what I planned for my fanfics since last year sometime (before season 7). When I eventually finish the specific episode where it happens, I would send you a link if you're interested so you can see how good it could have been.


I would be very interested. I saw Lex grow to hate Lionel more and more in season seven. Yes, Lionel tried to show Lex some affection, but it seemed like Lex was enjoying spitting in Lionel's face every chance he got. It just seemed like perfect timing for the final blow out to me. Weather or not it should have come to a head over Veritas or not is left up to the individual I guess, but to me, a huge secret that he'd been keeping from Lex about an alien traveler, after he spent so much time making fun of Lex for looking in to alien life, seemed rather fitting. Also, Lionel's warmth and affection for Clark would have added to that hatred.


I assume you meant the Queens death being shown in the Pilot (not the Teagues). I think that was placed there for a reason, but that they didn't know how the story would play out back then. Maybe it was placed because they thought about doing a JLA spinoff from back then if Smallville became a hit. We can't really say for sure. But I actually liked the placement of that newspaper headline.
I liked it too. I did mean the Queens, sorry about that. I guess we can take it however we want, but I choose to take it the way their telling me to. I just think it was rather coincidental that he happened to have that paper, and be going to Smallville on the day of the meteor shower. Was that a happy accident that allowed them to set up Veritas later, if so, I like it. If not, it was a hell of a bit of planning.

I didn't get the feeling that Swann & Lionel knew each other as well as the Veritas storyline suggested from their meeting in Legacy. But I don't think that was a problem. What was a problem was Lionel's disinterest in all things Smallville until he noticed Lex spending money that was unaccounted for in season 1
I think Lionel knew who the traveler was all along, and was waiting for the right time to control him. I think he set up the Kent's adoption for that reason. I also think he put his plant in Smallville, and bought up everything he could to be in the area when Clark came. Why else did he want land in Smallville of all places if not to fit into his plan? He could have put his plants in other small towns. I don't think he waited until season 2 to be interested in the town, I think he was interested all along, and was playing a bit of chess, as is Lionel's nature. I also don't think Veritas is asking you to forget any story lines. Just because Lionel knew about the traveler doesn't mean he knew everything about him, or everything about controlling him. Look at the Mansion for example. We knew his Mansion wasn't the Luthor ancestral home, but we didn't know why he would pick that castle, have it shipped to Smallville of all places, then lie about what it was. If he just wanted a mansion, he could have built a new one, then put in in Metropolis where he lives. Why Smallville, why that Mansion? Now we know. However, what seems cool to me, won't to others, and what makes perfect sense to me, won't to others. That's the beauty of things like this.

[xrayvision]

I think Lionel knew who the traveler was all along, and was waiting for the right time to control him. I think he set up the Kent's adoption for that reason. I also think he put his plant in Smallville, and bought up everything he could to be in the area when Clark came. Why else did he want land in Smallville of all places if not to fit into his plan? He could have put his plants in other small towns. I don't think he waited until season 2 to be interested in the town, I think he was interested all along, and was playing a bit of chess, as is Lionel's nature. I also don't think Veritas is asking you to forget any story lines. Just because Lionel knew about the traveler doesn't mean he knew everything about him, or everything about controlling him. Look at the Mansion for example. We knew his Mansion wasn't the Luthor ancestral home, but we didn't know why he would pick that castle, have it shipped to Smallville of all places, then lie about what it was. If he just wanted a mansion, he could have built a new one, then put in in Metropolis where he lives. Why Smallville, why that Mansion? Now we know. However, what seems cool to me, won't to others, and what makes perfect sense to me, won't to others. That's the beauty of things like this.

I think had Lionel knew who the Traveler was all along, instead of setting him up with the Kents, he would have ratted the Kents out and adopted Clark himself. That way, he could have raised Clark to be his son, with his ideals, and it would have been much easier to control him. He wouldn't even need the orb. Clark would have been raised to be evil and fulfill Lionel's demands.

Had they given an explanation as to how Lionel knew Clark would arrive that day when nobody else did, I probably would have believed that he bought the plant in Smallville for that reason. The thing is they didn't. Because Lionel is a businessman who had been in the agricultural business (fertilizer) for a while, I would say he bought it because that was the best land he could find in the proximity to Metropolis.

The mansion is another thing. I think it actually was the Luthor ancestral home and that Veritas proved it. The Veritas society as we know began hundreds of years ago in Gertrude's (Genevieve's ancestor) time/era (the early 1600's). Everything the final members of Veritas (the Luthors, Swanns, Queens, and Teagues) did was based on the contact Zod made with Gertrude. We also know that the Luthor family crest (which was 100's of years old as well) was retconned. The crest included the Veritas symbol, so if one is to believe Veritas, they should also assume this is true. So this means the Luthors have been involved in Veritas for a long time as well and that Scotland was a site for the society's activities (as seen in Quest). Because the windows came with the mansion and displayed the Luthor crest that showed the Veritas symbol, I would say that the mansion was indeed the Luthor's ancestral home and that this is how the Luthors are tied to Veritas for all those 100's of years. Knowledge of the orb that was hidden in the fireplace was lost because the person/people who hid it there or those who knew it was buried there was/were killed by the Kryptonian who made the orb.

So based on the above, I think those who buy into the Veritas version should believe that the mansion was always the Luthor's home. The poverty that hit the Luthors (as seen with Lachlan) could have resulted of the deaths of those who knew of the orb's location. And it wasn't until Lionel killed his parents that the money turned up for him to finally have it moved to the U.S. This is my explanation for Veritas fans.

But for me, I would say that the mansion was moved because Lionel wanted to show his power. This is because there is a flaw in Veritas about this. If Lionel knew the orb was in the mansion and used that as his reason for moving it to the U.S., why would he not step inside it until way after Lex had settled there? Why allow Lex to stay there? Why not stay there himself? If he was waiting for the right time for the Traveler to control him, why not make sure he had the orb in his possession, ready to be used when the time was right?

This also brings a chicken & the egg scenario (i.e. which came first). See, Lex was able to find out it was in the mansion because he got the 2 keys, opened the deposit box, and placed the cryptograph in the clock, causing The Shores of St. Kilda to play. Yet, it was revealed that Lionel made Lex play that as a kid, over & over again. How did Lionel know about that song & its importance in finding the orb when he never opened the box in Zurich and heard that song playing from the clock? I thought besides giving the diamond shaped key to the orb, the clock was mandatory in finding the orb because it gave the clue about the song. This didn't make sense to me. Lionel should not have known any relevance The Shores of St. Kilda had on finding the orb. And because the Shores of St. Kilda was tied directly to the mansion, then by extension he shouldn't have known that the mansion held the orb.

I just can't believe that Lionel moved the mansion for that reason. Did he really think that Lex would just back off & let him destroy the very mansion he lived in to find the orb? If Lionel knew the importance of the mansion (which I can't understand) & how the orb was buried in it, then it would have been in his best interest to move immediately into the mansion after having it moved & keep Lex in Metropolis & as far away from Smallville until he (Lionel) found the orb.

It's just a shame though. Because I loved the mysticism around the mansion, but they weren't able to connect the story in a decent way. I wish instead of the stuff we got in seasons 4, 5, and 6, they would have shown scenes of Lionel going to Scotland and finding out (through some other means instead of the clock) that the Luthor mansion he moved to Smallville contained the artifact he was looking for. The conivery that would have gone behind Lex's back as Lionel tried to get the orb without Lex's knowledge would have been very entertaining & interesting to watch.

I do appreciate your comments about this though Kal26. Even if we won't see eye to eye on Veritas, I'm glad you were able to enjoy the storyline.

[Kal26]

I think had Lionel knew who the Traveler was all along, instead of setting him up with the Kents, he would have ratted the Kents out and adopted Clark himself. That way, he could have raised Clark to be his son, with his ideals, and it would have been much easier to control him. He wouldn't even need the orb. Clark would have been raised to be evil and fulfill Lionel's demands.
You make good points, as always, some I can't argue with, as always, some I can, but as in the case in such conversations, it's just my opinion, not that I'm right, or anything, just that I see it a different way. I'm thinking that if Lionel ratted out the Kents, he wouldn't get Clark at all, the government would. However, if Lionel knew about the orb, which I think he did. He would have known that he didn't need to raise Clark. For one, if he didn't rat out the Kents, but rather took Clark from them, he'd have to deal with them coming after him, or he'd have to kill them.

Had they given an explanation as to how Lionel knew Clark would arrive that day when nobody else did, I probably would have believed that he bought the plant in Smallville for that reason. The thing is they didn't. Because Lionel is a businessman who had been in the agricultural business (fertilizer) for a while, I would say he bought it because that was the best land he could find in the proximity to Metropolis.
For this one, I figure Lionel, with his vast resources, and capability, somehow got a one up on Swan, or found a way to steel the information before Swans group could report to him, then found a way to cover up the finding. I know it's kind of a stretch, but so are many other things Lionel has pulled off over the season. I'll agree that this is a good point though. I just think that if he did buy the land for business reasons, he could have found towns where it would have been much easier to do, and much closer than three hours away from Metropolis. When building that kind of plant, I don't think the quality of land has much to do with it. I think it's more location. In my experience, (having a mother who worked for a fertilizer plant for much of my life) it's mostly done with chemicals. They have test ground, but the chemicals come from a lab, or at least that's my understanding, as her plant was in a rather poor location.




But for me, I would say that the mansion was moved because Lionel wanted to show his power. This is because there is a flaw in Veritas about this. If Lionel knew the orb was in the mansion and used that as his reason for moving it to the U.S., why would he not step inside it until way after Lex had settled there? Why allow Lex to stay there? Why not stay there himself? If he was waiting for the right time for the Traveler to control him, why not make sure he had the orb in his possession, ready to be used when the time was right?
I can see your point about the Mansion being his ancestral home, but why move it to Smallivlle, if he didn't know it needed to be there. My theory about why he would let Lex live there, and why he was grooming Lex, both with the song on the piano, and in his ruthlessness, was to prepare him to finish what Lionel started with the traveler. I'm thinking that before he became Jor-El's vessel, he had every intention of setting Lex up to rule the world with the traveler as his puppet.


This also brings a chicken & the egg scenario (i.e. which came first). See, Lex was able to find out it was in the mansion because he got the 2 keys, opened the deposit box, and placed the cryptograph in the clock, causing The Shores of St. Kilda to play. Yet, it was revealed that Lionel made Lex play that as a kid, over & over again. How did Lionel know about that song & its importance in finding the orb when he never opened the box in Zurich and heard that song playing from the clock? I thought besides giving the diamond shaped key to the orb, the clock was mandatory in finding the orb because it gave the clue about the song. This didn't make sense to me. Lionel should not have known any relevance The Shores of St. Kilda had on finding the orb. And because the Shores of St. Kilda was tied directly to the mansion, then by extension he shouldn't have known that the mansion held the orb.


One reason is that Lionel does his research. Someone set up the box, and someone had to program the clock. That leaves a number of sources that Lionel could have paid off, or blackmailed. He seems to be very good at getting information when he wants it. I don't think Lionel is the type of guy who has people killed without finding out what he wants to know from them first.

[xrayvision]

For this one, I figure Lionel, with his vast resources, and capability, somehow got a one up on Swan, or found a way to steel the information before Swans group could report to him, then found a way to cover up the finding. I know it's kind of a stretch, but so are many other things Lionel has pulled off over the season. I'll agree that this is a good point though. I just think that if he did buy the land for business reasons, he could have found towns where it would have been much easier to do, and much closer than three hours away from Metropolis. When building that kind of plant, I don't think the quality of land has much to do with it. I think it's more location. In my experience, (having a mother who worked for a fertilizer plant for much of my life) it's mostly done with chemicals. They have test ground, but the chemicals come from a lab, or at least that's my understanding, as her plant was in a rather poor location.

Thanks & I must say you make some good points too. It's a shame they couldn't somehow weave the possible scenarios you mentioned in your post in the web that was the Veritas storyline. It would have been pretty convincing had they done it. I especially like how you mentioned that Lionel was setting up Lex to rule the world using the Traveler by his side. That's pretty much what Lionel in the Apocalypse reality did with Kara. I wish in the scene just before Lex killed Lionel, Lex would have pointed that out (that Lionel was prepping Lex to rule the world using the Traveler) but had since gotten weak and how he (Lex) was going to finish what Lionel didn't have the guts to do. That would have been a great thing to see rather than have him complain about Lionel ruining his life. It would have also been a throwback to that season 4 episode where Lex thinks that Lionel is too scared to continue looking for the stones, but how Lionel responded that even if he finds them, he won't find what he's looking for.

Another thing about the plant I wanted to mention was that someone posted here that level 3 was started by the Luthors, Teagues, Queens & Swanns because of Gertrude's confrontation (or whatever you want to call it) with Zod. I remember reading about this during season 5 before Veritas was ever mentioned (I think in Justice & Doom). We know that Level 3 involved experiments using kryptonite. In Justice & Doom, it was explained that Robert Queen was the one who started Level 3 and that Lionel was asked to help the rest of the members out 2 years before the meteor shower & that he was very pessimistic that an army of superhumans could be created:

http://www.ezrasmall.com/images/lvl3.jpg

I don't think Lionel stole info from Swann. Instead, I think he had his own source of info that he kept away from the rest of the Veritas members. I stand by my opinion that the Luthors had been part of the group for hundreds of years and that the mansion is their ancestral home, especially because of the windows.

But here is something that is interesting:

http://www.kryptonsite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2986690&postcount=93

One thing I have to say before going further is that Veritas did not know about the Kawatche cave or the legend/prophecy, otherwise they would have searched for it non-stop until they found it & Lionel would not have been so dead-set on building the office buildings which would destroy the caves. In Skinwalker, he could have easily bought the land & kept it to himself (or at least tight control on who enters/leaves) as soon as the cave was discovered & the activism/publicity started if he knew about the Kawatche legend beforehand. That is why I think the Naman prophecy & the Traveler (Veritas) theory were independent & somewhat parallel (except for some interpretation differences). Lionel was pretty much the first to know the existence of both if you accept the retcon. However, kryptonite did guard the stones since whichever Kryptonian hid them where they were until they were unearthed did leave those pieces there. I assume that Kryptonian was the same as the one who created the Kawatche tribe and first visited Earth & painted the caves. I'll even assume it's Kem-El. Kyla & Joseph said the visitor brought green rocks when he appeared 500 years ago (the 1500's on Earth), so he probably left some with the Kawatche and some with the relics guarding the stones. Nobody in Gertrude's time knew or ever saw kryptonite since the only kryptonite was around the stones & nobody saw the stones until they were unearthed in season 4. But maybe pieces of kryptonite in Smallville did turn up over the years from the Kawatche (due to the skinwalkers) and Lionel could have found out about it & moved the plant in Smallville because of the discovery of these pieces. Since Lionel in that Justice & Doom document linked above was said to be an industry leader in genetics, he could have acquired a piece and saw its effects on crops. Perhaps he built the plant in Smallville because he hoped to mine for more kryptonite and use it in his level 3 experiments, which were planned 2 years before the meteor shower according to the document linked above.

I also have another explanation I'm about to get to. If you read Eh,Man?You-El?'s post, the 4th paragraph mentions the year 1961. That is a very interesting year in Smallville, because in Relic, that was the year that Jor-El came to Earth---which is when Lachlan Luthor was arrested & released. What if Lionel killed Lachlan & Eliza Luthor (his parents) the night Lachlan got back to Suicide Slum from killing Louise in Smallville? It could be that he had & kept the newspaper that showed that sketch of Jor-El with the pendant around his neck, which would have also mentioned Lachlan's involvement in the robbery attempt. It was revealed in that episode that pages of the police records from the day Louise was killed were missing. What if Lionel removed these pages not because he was afraid of Lex or someone else finding about Lachlan & asking questions. If Lex asked questions, Lionel could have instead admitted that Lachlan was a criminal who had enemies who killed him & Eliza in the tenement. Maybe Lionel took those pages sometime later because they had some testimony from Lachlan about Jor-El. Maybe before Lionel killed Lachlan, he found out from Lachlan that a guy with inhuman strength attacked him. And maybe Lionel had in his possession a copy of the same newspaper that Lana showed Clark with Jor-El's sketch. In that sketch, you could see the Kryptonian symbol on the medallion.

Once again, here is what the 4th paragraph of Eh,Man?You-El?'s post says:

In 1985, with Lionel Luthor's help, Genevieve had found a deadly connection between the symbols from 16th century France to Smallville in 1961. About the same time, Virgil Swann had found a "beacon" transmitting the same symbols Genevieve had found and the "Meteor particles" transmission medium that Virgil had found carrying this signal was concentrated in Smallville.

This could certainly mean that Lionel did have a copy of that newspaper (which is from 1961) and he knew from there that an alien presence had appeared in the past in Smallville. And that, is why he decided to buy the plant in Smallville.

It is a shame that they didn't bring this up in the show, because they could have probably made Veritas seem much more believable than what it actually was.

[Ginx]

I think the point of Jor-El taking away his powers was to keep him from being used as a weapon by Lex, or anyone else. If I've learned anything from watching this show, it's that story lines like Veritas don't end. It will be popping up again, I'm sure of it. They just want us to think it's over.

I agree... you just never know. Especially when Tess did that LONNNNG look at the Luthor crest and the V logo..... I wasn't a fan of the storyline myself but I don't think it's entirely gone but I think they will morph it into something that is more interesting and complete for the fans.

[pharaoh8]

i hope so. cuz it just dragged last season.

[xrayvision]

I agree... you just never know. Especially when Tess did that LONNNNG look at the Luthor crest and the V logo..... I wasn't a fan of the storyline myself but I don't think it's entirely gone but I think they will morph it into something that is more interesting and complete for the fans.

I wouldn't mind a better explanation, but I think Lex should be present if that's done. Since he isn't, it's probably best to drop it.

[unfocused]

Clark talked to Oliver AND Chloe about the control story. He said Jor-El took his powers away, this was his way of "controlling" him. I guess "keeping him under control" makes better sense, but then again Veritas could have very well interpreted this wrong. It happens a lot with many different prophecies fiction or real.

Also, the crystal that was recovered from the site is the one that built the Fortress. My guess is that the Fortress was deconstructed by it and can be created by it again.

[xrayvision]

Is that what they said? I thought they said that Jor-El taking Clark's powers away was his way of preventing him from being controlled, or at least a danger to the world.

[unfocused]

I think the direct quote is "taking away my powers was his way of 'controlling' me."

[Kal26]

I also have another explanation I'm about to get to. If you read Eh,Man?You-El?'s post, the 4th paragraph mentions the year 1961. That is a very interesting year in Smallville, because in Relic, that was the year that Jor-El came to Earth---which is when Lachlan Luthor was arrested & released. What if Lionel killed Lachlan & Eliza Luthor (his parents) the night Lachlan got back to Suicide Slum from killing Louise in Smallville? It could be that he had & kept the newspaper that showed that sketch of Jor-El with the pendant around his neck, which would have also mentioned Lachlan's involvement in the robbery attempt. It was revealed in that episode that pages of the police records from the day Louise was killed were missing. What if Lionel removed these pages not because he was afraid of Lex or someone else finding about Lachlan & asking questions. If Lex asked questions, Lionel could have instead admitted that Lachlan was a criminal who had enemies who killed him & Eliza in the tenement. Maybe Lionel took those pages sometime later because they had some testimony from Lachlan about Jor-El. Maybe before Lionel killed Lachlan, he found out from Lachlan that a guy with inhuman strength attacked him. And maybe Lionel had in his possession a copy of the same newspaper that Lana showed Clark with Jor-El's sketch. In that sketch, you could see the Kryptonian symbol on the medallion.

Once again, here is what the 4th paragraph of Eh,Man?You-El?'s post says:

In 1985, with Lionel Luthor's help, Genevieve had found a deadly connection between the symbols from 16th century France to Smallville in 1961. About the same time, Virgil Swann had found a "beacon" transmitting the same symbols Genevieve had found and the "Meteor particles" transmission medium that Virgil had found carrying this signal was concentrated in Smallville.

This could certainly mean that Lionel did have a copy of that newspaper (which is from 1961) and he knew from there that an alien presence had appeared in the past in Smallville. And that, is why he decided to buy the plant in Smallville.

It is a shame that they didn't bring this up in the show, because they could have probably made Veritas seem much more believable than what it actually was.

This was a very interesting post. Thanks for all the links, that information, and the information you discussed above would have been a great addition to the story. I agree with what you said at the end too. I wish they would have included at least some of this, if not all of it. I also like your theory about Varitas not knowing about the caves, that would explain why Lionel was so interested in being the only one to know about them, and why he was so eager to get them all to his self after their discovery.

----- Added 9 Minutes later -----


I think the direct quote is "taking away my powers was his way of 'controlling' me."

Yeah, it was. I watched the season for a second time, and was surprised that it was actually said twice. I'm not sure why Teague needed to assault Clark with kryptonite to keep him from being controlled if he was just going to be stripped of his powers, unless it's like you said, and Veritas actually misunderstood the prophecy.

[jmsnyc]

The writers should have done better, and explained it better. They built the whole thing up to the Season 7 Finale, there was no control of Clark, and other than the V on the glass that Tess looked at, it seems like the writers are trying to forget Veritas ever existed.

If there is all this mystery with Veritas being connected to 1961, the writers should have incorporated that into the episode or at least hints of it.

[Theshadow129x]

All I can say is---to hell with the Veritas story. I didn't like it & wanna forget it ever existed. They could have done it much better had they made major changes to it and actually shown the events on the show throughout all those years (starting in seasons 4 or 5) rather than those ridiculously stupid side projects where you need specific products (e.g. a Sprint cellphone) to see. But that's water under the bridge that was crossed a long time ago.

The way Al/Miles left it off was very stupid and made it very hard for anyone to explain. It was dumb to have such a device that could control Clark anyway. They suggested that Jor-El made it, even though it was created about 100-200 years before Jor-El's time. Rather than dealing with nonsense storylines that were impossible to explain, they did the smart thing and scrapped it all. And I was very happy with that.

Had they been smart, they would not have made that device be one that controls Clark, but instead the Eradicator itself. That is the one Kryptonian thing they really need to introduce on the show. And given that Doomsday is here this season, I hope they follow the comics and have the Eradicator heal Clark.

so true!

[unfocused]

I'm not sure why Teague needed to assault Clark with kryptonite to keep him from being controlled if he was just going to be stripped of his powers, unless it's like you said, and Veritas actually misunderstood the prophecy.

This is what I'm expecting to be revealed.

I'm thinking that maybe in a coming episode Clark will realize that the Veritas prophecy of a coming traveler was true, BUT the prophecy of being able to control him was misinterpreted. A short 2 minute scene could reveal this, that the prophecy really meant Jor-El would strip Clark of his powers and deconstruct the fortress.

----- Added 2 Minutes later -----


The way Al/Miles left it off was very stupid and made it very hard for anyone to explain. It was dumb to have such a device that could control Clark anyway. They suggested that Jor-El made it, even though it was created about 100-200 years before Jor-El's time. Rather than dealing with nonsense storylines that were impossible to explain, they did the smart thing and scrapped it all. And I was very happy with that.

I couldn't have said it better myself, brother. Great work.

[RedKRules]

Maybe the Veritas storyline is not over yet! .. who knows??!

[xrayvision]

unless it's like you said, and Veritas actually misunderstood the prophecy.

I think this would be a great thing to do if they carefully review everything to make sure it doesn't create more problems. They can reveal that Doomsday was the traveler, not Clark. And they could reveal that Lionel was misdirected when he found the sketch of Jor-El in that 1961 newspaper talking about the death of Louise (from Relic). They could say that Lionel was looking for evidence, and when he found the Kryptonian symbol on Jor-El's medallion in the sketch, he was persuaded that Smallville was the site of the Traveler's arrival. They can also say that the orb was meant to control Doomsday, but then they have to give a reason why it made Clark powerless and why it deconstructed the FOS. Maybe they can say that it was designed for the beings who existed before Kryptonians on Krypton and can not only neutralize those beings (one of which was Doomsday) but Kryptonians as well. They can reveal that Doomsday's creator made the orb and that Kem-El (or maybe one of his descendants) had found it & brought it to Earth with him & buried it in the Luthor mansion (during one of the meetings of the Luthors & Gertrude in Scotland) back around the time the clock was made according to Quest (don't remember)----the last place that the Luthor's of the era would have looked.

They could also show that once again because of Lex, humanity's only hope (the orb) was wasted on deconstructing the FOS rather than stopping Doomsday & how Clark will have to step up to take him on.

[unfocused]

They can reveal that Doomsday was the traveler, not Clark.

I really like this idea. And the way you set it up in your post, makes a lot of sense. Having Lex be to blame for wasting the orb on Clark and the Fortress is a really great way to have Clark be the only one who could stop Doomsday. It would also add another great tragedy to Lex's story.

That would be the ultimate end to the Veritas story and I believe it would redeem this story.

[Jlvsclrk]

Yes, I'm hoping they tie in Veritas with Doomsday. It would kind of make sense that Jor-El sent his son to Earth because Krypton had left a ticking time bomb buried deep in the ice, and if humans got a hold of all the necessary bits to control the FOS, they would also unleash Doomsday. Or something like that.

I feel quite sure the Veritas group misinterpreted the story of the Traveller: Teague himself said that every part of the legend could have an alternate explanation. I've also thought that Brainiac going back in time had something to do with the confusion. We know he sent additional transmissions that got written into the journal. So he could have sent false leads, planted doubts, who knows what.

As for Lionel not realizing that Clark was the Traveller, maybe its as simple as him not being able to believe that a baby, and later a teenager, could possibly be the all powerful being. Sometimes simple explanations like that are the best.

[Hopefulsuicide]

Maybe the Veritas storyline is not over yet! .. who knows??!

i hope your wrong

i mean the veritas storyline has been the cause of some of the biggest, longest and most passionate arguements on this site... please let it be over so we can start talking about something else, cause to be quite honest, i'm getting bored :rolleyes:

[Kal26]

That sounds cool. However, I have a feeling that doomsday isn't going to be an alien in this incarnation, but some sort of creation made by the government to stop either an alien invasion, or a meteor freak take over. I'm thinking it's going to be like a super soldier serum like the one used in a recent issue of Superman/Batman. They mixed the dna of the original doomsday in with Kryptonite, to make a weapon that Superman couldn't stop. They gave it to a soldier who then became the new doomsday, and could only be stopped by coming in contact with his parents, and regaining some of his old memories as he calmed down. He literally wiped out Smallville while basically taking Superman apart.

[xrayvision]

As for Lionel not realizing that Clark was the Traveller, maybe its as simple as him not being able to believe that a baby, and later a teenager, could possibly be the all powerful being. Sometimes simple explanations like that are the best.

I just wish they would have incorporated this into the storyline when Lionel was alive. All they needed to do was to have Lionel say that up until he obtained Jor-El's knowledge from the Water stone (Commencement), he always thought that the Traveler was an adult and that his suspicions of Clark were those of a meteor freak (especially after reading Chloe's articles starting in Witness).

[BULLITT]

Actually I think it was a perfect ending to the veritas storyline - it said bye to gough and millar by cutting ties.

Ahh, the ole metaphor in the details, ploy.

[Joelito]

That THIS MEAN, SCARY SCARY END TO THE VERITAS STORYLINE, THAT THE SCARY END THAT THEY NEEDED TO KEEP HIM AWAY FROM AT ALL COSTS WAS JUST THAT CLARK WOULD BE POWERLESS, **** we've seen that before and that didn't mean half the **** it meant now. Way to start thins PS3 or whoever you are
What you can expect from a story that was created during-after the strike and they (TPTB) need a *fill* story to use.