Jor-El can take Clark's powers away..

[Superman of Krypton]

Jor-El took away Clark's powers effortlessly in "Arrival"...


If Jor-El can do that so easily.. and turn Clark into a powerless mortal at will, whats the point of sending the device to control the traveller?

If Clark went rogue, Jor-El could just magically strip him of his powers again.

[chlo-el]

Good point.

[xrayvision]

Just another bad plothole of a contrived retcon. This story would be so much better had they thought of this stuff.

And to anyone who says who cares---this is important. Longtime fans have been waiting years to get answers about who wrote the cave prophecies and how they knew about Clark's arrival along with everything else (the stones, etc). These arcs needed to be wrapped up carefully, not in the sloppy plothole-ridden manner that we are getting.

[JNottle]

He didn't know Clark would find the stones to create the Fortress of Sollitude.

[xrayvision]

But he did have other means. Like branding him using the ship or the caves. The controlling the Traveler device is unnecessary.

[Emissary of Justice]

The caves and ship have never depowered Clark. Jor-El was only able to achieve that after Clark had activated the Fortress. Also, Clark has found ways to render all three powerless due to his epic stupidity. Therefore, Jor-El needed a method that Clark couldn't interfere with.


And to anyone who says who cares---this is important. Longtime fans have been waiting years to get answers about who wrote the cave prophecies and how they knew about Clark's arrival along with everything else (the stones, etc).If you've been waiting years for that stuff, you clearly haven't been paying attention to the show. The Kawatche wrote the cave paintings. It's their legend. They merely wrote it down. The thing for the octagon disk was added by Jor-El in Relic. We knew they about Clark's arrival in Season Two, but they didn't know who he was.

[xrayvision]

The caves and ship have never depowered Clark. Jor-El was only able to achieve that after Clark had activated the Fortress. Also, Clark has found ways to render all three powerless due to his epic stupidity. Therefore, Jor-El needed a method that Clark couldn't interfere with.

If you've been waiting years for that stuff, you clearly haven't been paying attention to the show. The Kawatche wrote the cave paintings. It's their legend. They merely wrote it down. The thing for the octagon disk was added by Jor-El in Relic. We knew they about Clark's arrival in Season Two, but they didn't know who he was.

I am paying attention, but I'm not sure you are because Joseph Willowbrook when eating dinner with the Kents in Skinwalker told them that the original Kryptonian who arrived and brought the "green rocks" with him promised that another would show up some day and that person was Naman.

Joseph Willowbrook: The legend only tells that he left one day and flew back into the sky, promising he would send another.

So Clark's ancestor who showed up in the 1500's is the one who told the Kawatche that one day another would show up. The Kawatche documented this in their paintings. They witnessed the strength of the original Kryptonian and documented it. So just as the original Kryptonian who landed told the Kawatche about another arriving some day (Naman), he also had to have told them about the "rain of fire" (meteor shower) and the shooting of fire from his eyes. They could have also seen the Kryptonian exhibiting these abilities and known that Naman would have the same abilities.

But it's clear that an ancestor of Clark's knew what would happen. This is what I have known for years, and what I've been waiting for is the explanation of how he knew. Did he time travel? Did he (as in my fanfic "Krypton") build a machine that was able to see the future and find out that Krypton would explode and that Kal-El would be sent as a baby to Earth, which was his reason for going to Earth and starting the work on the portals, the cave technology, and everything else? If this is true, what happened that he was unable to save Krypton? Did he die before getting his message out?

I'm not sure that Jor-El added the "language downloader wall" for the octagonal key. We did see him playing with it and I always assumed that he did install it, but this was never verified. I don't really care about that though.

What I did want to see this season was Clark's ancestor who started it all. I'm guessing it was the legendary Kem-El from the comics, but I would have loved for it to be confirmed in the show.

[EKlipse80]

Jor-El took away Clark's powers effortlessly in "Arrival"...


If Jor-El can do that so easily.. and turn Clark into a powerless mortal at will, whats the point of sending the device to control the traveller?

If Clark went rogue, Jor-El could just magically strip him of his powers again.

Your speaking as if Jor-El is sentient. He is only a programmed representation of the origenal in the fortress. So there is your answer. Lex controls Jor-El (the fortress computer) so Lex controls Kal-EL and/or strips him of his power.

EDIT. And why send the device, If Kal-EL went bad first thing he would do is destroy the fortress.

[curiosity]

Jor-El took away Clark's powers effortlessly in "Arrival"...


If Jor-El can do that so easily.. and turn Clark into a powerless mortal at will, whats the point of sending the device to control the traveller?

If Clark went rogue, Jor-El could just magically strip him of his powers again.

This goes along with my threory that Jor El didn't leave a control device, one of their kryptonian enemies did it, and used Jor El's name, IMO.

I think it was a hint when Clark said, "my father never would have done that".

I think anyone watching can interpret it any way you want, because they'll probably never go back and explain that Jor El didn't do it.

[All about Clark]

He didn't know Clark would find the stones to create the Fortress of Sollitude.

Not only this, but if Zod took over Clark in Solitude, he would have never returned to the fortress or used the key, so Jor-el would have been pretty useless at this point.

[xrayvision]

He didn't know Clark would find the stones to create the Fortress of Sollitude.

But if he didn't know that, then why send technology that is housed inside the FOS to control him? We know that if a human created the FOS, that the Earth would have been destroyed.

This is why I think the device was actually sent to control Zod, because he would have been deemed the alien threat by Gertrude and the others in the 1600's who knew about him.

Or maybe he sent it to control Kara or some other Kryptonian (like Zor-El) had they come to control it.

[smallvillelogan]

xrayvision is way too angry about all this. :)

[curiosity]

But if he didn't know that, then why send technology that is housed inside the FOS to control him? We know that if a human created the FOS, that the Earth would have been destroyed.

This is why I think the device was actually sent to control Zod, because he would have been deemed the alien threat by Gertrude and the others in the 1600's who knew about him.

Or maybe he sent it to control Kara or some other Kryptonian (like Zor-El) had they come to control it.

Someone else with a theory other than Jor El sent it to control Clark. :) I have to agree, I think there's some other explanation than the one given.

[xrayvision]

xrayvision is way too angry about all this. :)

I'm not angry. I'm just confused. It makes no sense. :confused:

[TheLeague]

Jor-El took away Clark's powers effortlessly in "Arrival"...


If Jor-El can do that so easily.. and turn Clark into a powerless mortal at will, whats the point of sending the device to control the traveller?

If Clark went rogue, Jor-El could just magically strip him of his powers again.

WRONG!

the jor-el AI can only remove clarks powers should certain criteria be met ( such as clark disobeying a certain order which he did in season 5 )

so jor-el cannot willing strip clark of his powers just like that

and also xrayvision is overlooking certain things in his post which alot of people seem to do around here

[DreadShamus]

He didn't know Clark would find the stones to create the Fortress of Sollitude.

I absolutely agree with this. You hit it dead on.

----- Added 1 Minutes later -----


But he did have other means. Like branding him using the ship or the caves. The controlling the Traveler device is unnecessary.

You can't assume the ship is invulnerable to destruction. Someone as methodical as Jor-El would have back ups... although giving them to humans is rather retarded of him.

----- Added 2 Minutes later -----


xrayvision is way too angry about all this. :)

Well, his avatar is the crappy robin who the readers voted dead... after coming back in a lame comic twist.

[xrayvision]

WRONG!

the jor-el AI can only remove clarks powers should certain criteria be met ( such as clark disobeying a certain order which he did in season 5 )

so jor-el cannot willing strip clark of his powers just like that

and also xrayvision is overlooking certain things in his post which alot of people seem to do around here

Jor-El could take his powers if Clark is controlled by someone else because that is against his will. And that's how Jor-El has been portrayed on this show. His will is not of an evil nature. So Clark turning evil or being forced to commit evil acts would defy Jor-El's will. Why couldn't Jor-El reprogram him again like he did between season 3 & 4?

Also why couldn't Jor-El send a blast of wind like he did in Arrival when Chloe showed up at the FOS? The orb as we saw in the preview for Arctic leads Lex to the FOS (we even saw it giving him the location of the FOS in Quest). So obviously, the key to controlling Clark is in the FOS. Why wouldn't Jor-El try to freeze Lex to death when he shows up as he did to Chloe?

Also please tell me what I overlooked.

----- Added 3 Minutes later -----


Well, his avatar is the crappy robin who the readers voted dead... after coming back in a lame comic twist.

Well what is lame to you is one of the most interesting turn of events in the Batman stories to many readers.

Seriously, lay off the personal attacks. I didn't say anything about your avatar.

All I have to say is thank God comics aren't written like this show is.

[DreadShamus]

Jor-El could take his powers if Clark is controlled by someone else because that is against his will. And that's how Jor-El has been portrayed on this show. His will is not of an evil nature. So Clark turning evil or being forced to commit evil acts would defy Jor-El's will. Why couldn't Jor-El reprogram him again like he did between season 3 & 4?

Also why couldn't Jor-El send a blast of wind like he did in Arrival when Chloe showed up at the FOS? The orb as we saw in the preview for Arctic leads Lex to the FOS (we even saw it giving him the location of the FOS in Quest). So obviously, the key to controlling Clark is in the FOS. Why wouldn't Jor-El try to freeze Lex to death when he shows up as he did to Chloe?

Also please tell me what I overlooked.

----- Added 3 Minutes later -----



Well what is lame to you is one of the most interesting turn of events in the Batman stories to many readers.

Seriously, lay off the personal attacks. I didn't say anything about your avatar.

All I have to say is thank God comics aren't written like this show is.

Wow. You really do get way too pissed off about everything. There is nothing 'personal' about a joking comment.

[TheLeague]

I absolutely agree with this. You hit it dead on.

Well, his avatar is the crappy robin who the readers voted dead... after coming back in a lame comic twist.

yeah robin sucks so bad hehe i love when family guy take the p*ss out of him :D

[DreadShamus]

yeah robin sucks so bad hehe i love when family guy take the p*ss out of him :D

Robin is an outstanding character when placed in a good Teen Titans storyline, although I do still love Family Guy screwin with him.

[xrayvision]

Well, it didn't sound like a joke. I guess we have to agree to disagree then.

I'm hoping it's revealed that the device was to meant to control Kara in case she created the FOS. Because that makes the most sense. It was a very real threat at the time. Jor-El must have known about Kara and the blue crystal and how she was so much older than baby Kal-El and would easily beat him to the punch of creating the FOS. So the device would have been an equalizer in case she did.

I always thought that the Jor-El AI in Clark's ship sent a signal and jammed up Kara's ship on purpose to keep her in suspended animation on her trip to Earth because her ship was not far behind Clark's and hers didn't have the specialized AI that Clark's had. That way Clark would have a chance to find the stones before she was released. It never made sense how something like water can prevent ships as advanced as those made by Kryptonians from opening.

[Dor el]

This goes along with my threory that Jor El didn't leave a control device, one of their kryptonian enemies did it, and used Jor El's name, IMO.

I think it was a hint when Clark said, "my father never would have done that".

I think anyone watching can interpret it any way you want, because they'll probably never go back and explain that Jor El didn't do it.

This is my take on it. Jorel went to a great deal of trouble to send Clark to strongly moral righteous parents. Jorel had no reason to believe that Clark would turn into a psycho destroyer. I don't think he left it. He knew the weaknesses of humanity and would not want to risk a flawed human to be in control of his son.

[xrayvision]

yeah robin sucks so bad hehe i love when family guy take the p*ss out of him :D

Jason Todd as Robin rocked. I loved how he wasn't like the other Robins and how he did his own thing--even though it cost him his life. And now it's even better because he haunts Batman because Batman couldn't save him and how if Batman would have killed the Joker, JT wouldn't have died (at least not the way he did).

Those 2 are going to have to seriously duke it out sooner or later. And that's gonna be a helluva fight.

Family Guy probably took the p*ss out of the Grayson Robin since that's the most popular one. Heck, JT as Nightwing kicked Tim Drake's ass and gave it to him on a silver platter.

----- Added 2 Minutes later -----


This is my take on it. Jorel went to a great deal of trouble to send Clark to strongly moral righteous parents. Jorel had no reason to believe that Clark would turn into a psycho destroyer. I don't think he left it. He knew the weaknesses of humanity and would not want to risk a flawed human to be in control of his son.

One question though---did they say that Jor-El left it or is that just a theory around this forum? I really have to watch the episode again.

[One-Winged-Angel]

Well, Jor-El is only an AI and would not have any control over Kal-El's faith on earth. thats why he sendt the "fails safe" device with him. On smallville it seems he is not only an AI but "live" in some way, so i get the inconsistency.

Also MM is a confidante of Jor-El and there to protect Kal-El him if something goes wrong so that only puts more emphasis on the inconsistency.

I guess the logical way to look at this is to think of it as a second or (or third) fail safe, incase Jor-El or MM would not be able to sort things out.

[TheLeague]

Also please tell me what I overlooked.

----- Added 3 Minutes later -----



i was reffering to the thread where you said this episode is a mess and the part to do with jason and the "jason and genevieve did not give theyre lives for the traveler part"

just stating that you overlooked the possibility that they did actually give they're lives but did not know what they were giving they're lives to ( i believe genevieve gave her life for veritas which is protecting clark anyway as she was retrieving the stones for them ) and also jason helped hunt them down but it makes you wonder with the way he acted how much about veritas he actually knew

[Dor el]

One question though---did they say that Jor-El left it or is that just a theory around this forum? I really have to watch the episode again.

I thought the monk guy gave Jorel the credit for placing the device on earth, but who knows, perhaps someone else did (like Zorel). And maybe he did it to place suspicion onto Clark or so that the person placing the device could control Kalel when he arrived to take over earth. In any event, the device has to go and Clark needs to take care of it quickly.

----- Added 5 Minutes later -----


i was reffering to the thread where you said this episode is a mess and the part to do with jason and the "jason and genevieve did not give theyre lives for the traveler part"

just stating that you overlooked the possibility that they did actually give they're lives but did not know what they were giving they're lives to ( i believe genevieve gave her life for veritas which is protecting clark anyway as she was retrieving the stones for them ) and also jason helped hunt them down but it makes you wonder with the way he acted how much about veritas he actually knew

I can see how this may have been the case. Just before Jason was shot and fell of the cliff, he was ready to make a huge reveal about Clark to Lex and I think that is why Lionel shot Jason. I think Jason knew about Veritas and that he and his mother were working for the organization. Maybe for their own reasons, but I think that they were looking for the Traveler, and Jason figured out it was Clark. I think Jason's falling in love with Lana was unexpected, but his relationship with Lana did get him a foot in the door with the folks of SV. An entry that would not arouse suspicion as to why Jason was in SV.

[Angelous]

Well technically that if clark was with the ship if someone else other than the kents found him since jor-el program an AI in the ship that no matter what that Clark would have begun his journey to become a Hero If he was raised in a bad manner that the device was to be used if Clark did go bad and wanted to take over the world and since he has access to the PZ he could have released the Phantoms and lead earth to its ultimate destruction. Which the device was sent for MM to use if it came to be because no human can stop him unless they found his weekness.

But their are a lot of possiblities that the Orb was sent to earth to control Kal-el or stop any other kryptonian that came to earth to destroy or rule.

The Legend on the cave wall think anyone thought that it could have been Zod that would have came to earth which probably would have been his next destination after Krypton was destroyed since Brainiac was sent their to release him from the PZ. When Zod heard of Kal-el going that he would be Zod's Vessel.

Because on cave wall stated at one time that someone would come to ruel the world but Clark was sent their to save the earth from destruction.

Their my .02 cents

[xrayvision]

i was reffering to the thread where you said this episode is a mess and the part to do with jason and the "jason and genevieve did not give theyre lives for the traveler part"

just stating that you overlooked the possibility that they did actually give they're lives but did not know what they were giving they're lives to ( i believe genevieve gave her life for veritas which is protecting clark anyway as she was retrieving the stones for them ) and also jason helped hunt them down but it makes you wonder with the way he acted how much about veritas he actually knew

The main reason that not knowing what they were giving their lives to doesn't make sense to me is how they led Lana to the crypt so that she would be possessed by Isobel. It doesn't make sense that they would want someone with magical powers and knowledge where one of the stones was buried (the one in China) to be around the same time that they were trying to devote their lives to a purpose that Isobel opposed. Also, why did Genevieve help get Lionel out of jail? Edward said he was in hiding "no thanks to Lionel" yet Genevieve was the one who got him out of prison. And Lex, who checked on the Teagues would have noticed that Edward wasn't practicing law (because he would have been waiting in the church for years). There are just things that happened in season 4 that don't jive with Edward's statement about Jason & Genevieve dying while serving the Traveler.

[Cuban J]

He cant just "take away" his powers. When he returned them in "Hidden" it costed a life to one of Clark's loved ones. So its not easy

[puddinpiester]

Well, he did take his powers away when Clark failed to return to the fortress like he promised. (the epi where Jorel nearly let Chloe freeze to death) Who is to say that he can't/won't do it again? Unless, of course, he can't. When Jorel brought Clark back to life in Hidden, Clark told his parents that the only way he could return to the world of the living was to get his powers back, that he wasn't/couldn't be human anymore. Maybe if he loses them again in the same manner, Clark won't survive.

[JNottle]

Maybe it's the power of a crystal? Like with the crystal to reverse time, their was only ONE of them.

[All about Clark]

He cant just "take away" his powers. When he returned them in "Hidden" it costed a life to one of Clark's loved ones. So its not easy

No, not true, it only cost a life because Jor-el brought a dead-Clark back to life.

And I do think Jor-el has the power to take Clark's powers away when he needs to.

This device puts more faith in humans than it does his only son. And the only need for it would be if Clark didn't create the fortress or use the cave wall.

I just feel this device controlling Clark makes no sense in that it would be impossible to affect an individuals right of chose. How can any device affect the mind? This storyline and the storyline of Veritas are just really bad and there are way too many inconsistencies with past episodes.

[Dor el]

Yeah, i don't like the idea either. What are we gonna have a zombie mind controlled Clark walking around. Not cool. Or are we gonna have an inner conflicted Clark not wanting to do Lex's bidding, but being unable to stop himself. Will he be aware of the controlled actions or will he not remember what Lex has him do? That is if the storyline gets to the point that Lex is indeed in control of Clark. didn't we have a mind controlled Clark in Hypnotic? Simone wasn't a evil as Lex, but she certainly was no picnic either.

[xrayvision]

And the only need for it would be if Clark didn't create the fortress or use the cave wall.

The thing is it may have been useless if Clark didn't create the Fortress. I'm guessing it will have to be plugged into the FOS to work (that is, if the orb itself is the device), otherwise, wouldn't Lex use it to control the Traveler from his mansion and not even bother to go to the FOS?

----- Added 7 Minutes later -----

If the device turns out to be sent to control Clark in case he was raised to be evil, then it would have to work independent of the FOS for there to have been any sense to send such a device. I outlined the scenarios in the post below, and showed how the only thing that makes sense is if the device in question is buried in the ice under the FOS:

http://www.kryptonsite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3779552&postcount=22

[Billyk]

The key here is to understand what exactly the device lex found does... maybe that device does not relate to jor-el per se. hopefully the arctic season finale episode will connect the dots when it reveals whatever the device unleashes.

and about the teagues, well my guess is that they were after the stones and they thought that awakening isobel in lana could help them track those stones.
you see, season 4 was all about the stones (and some of the veritas members seeking them). My guess is that Lionel was dying in season 3, he was desperate to either develop or find some alien knowledge or technology that could help keep him alive, perhaps the deal with swann in legacy was that swann wanted that each remaining family of the veritas group helped the traveler secure the stones so swann would give lionel information about the transference "water" stone (where to search for it - guatemala) , lionel would have the chance to switch to another healthy body and when the time came, he would return that stone to swann. For the teagues swann would leave the task to find the "air" stone. Perhaps swann knew that clark would seek the "fire" stone since crosby at the time of crusade and the "burned" symbol martha saw in covenant, that´s why crosby brought with her black kryptonite to override jor-el tough programming.
Perhaps once the families got the stones they would return all to swann and only then, swann would help the traveler unite the stones and create the fortress with no need for clark risk his identity being revealed to the world by seeking the stones in his ruthless kal-el mode.
However, there was a lot of unresolved issues and mistrust among the veritas members, and instead of helping each other, each member\family decided to let the other in the dark and even resort to steal from one another to make sure that their family got all the glory in helping the traveler or sometimes simply to see if they could harness the power of the stones.

[xrayvision]

^^That is a decent explanation. The main thing that still contradicts is the Isobel stuff. Why awaken such a huge competitor for the stones. Yeah, I know they probably felt she would lead them to the Air stone, but she was too obsessed with the stones herself to make re-awakening/resurrecting her be a viable option.

Genevieve also lacked the servant-like manner that Edward Teague showed in Quest before he went nuts. She always seemed evil and underhanded in season 4. Perhaps if they had flashback scenes this season showing her and Edward plotting it out and making her evil ways seem like a facade.

I like what you're saying, but I just wish the writers & TPTB would have given more consideration to the continuity before jumping into Veritas so quickly this season. They could have done a better & more convincing job. I always thought they should have done this in a slower rate throughout the seasons.

Instead of Justice & Doom and all these side projects, they could have done this in a 30 minute Smallville off-shoot program with its own budget. I'm sure the WB/CW would have liked this since Smallville viewers would have caused much higher ratings than some of the other programs they have. Instead of having it be all like a comics (which sucks because you could barely see it on a TV screen), they could have gotten actors like Allison Mack and others who were involved. It would have also been a cool way to test the waters for spin-offs of Green Arrow/JLA as those characters were also involved.

[All about Clark]

I agree about Genevieve, she was portrayed as evil and I have a hard time reconciling that Edward Teague was married to Genevieve and held similar motives. The only way I can really see it is as Edward and Genevieve dissagreed with each other and later dispised each other. And Jason needing his mother's love sided with her. They obviously held separate lives and one can not tell whether Edward even knew of Genevieve's actions.

[timbojill]

if clark never gathered the three stones to form the fortress then Jor-El needed a way to control him.

[clana4everfan2]

Good point but maybe Jor-El wants Clark to understand his importance in the world beyond Smallville.