Was Lionel Trying to Protect, Kill or Control Clark?

[Krpyto]

Ok so if Veritas was in two camps a) Dr. Swan who saw the Traveller as a Savior and b) Mr. Teague who saw him as a threat if he could be controlled and therefore was willing to sacrifice him. Where did Lionel stand on this? I know he was protecting him at the end but he wanted to keep him to himself and possibly wanted to control him as well. Thoughts?

[minerva73]

I think Lionel was the one who wanted to control Clark. That's why he was the one who seemed to kill everyone else as Patricia Swann said. He probably wanted them out of the way, so he could do whatever he wanted to with the traveler.

[Krypton935]

i think all of the above-but at different times. at the end I think he was protecting him

[boywithbluehanger]

He started off wanting to control the Traveler, so he attempted to kill all who were in his way. Then after the events in Transference and after becoming Jor-El's emissary, he wanted to help Clark fulfill his destiny...or something like that.

[RepairmanBob]

Lionel's actions depend on:

1) The needs of the script
2) The fanwank you prefer
3) The crack the writers were smoking when they wrote the episode.

[MozartRequiem]

"Lionel's actions depend on:

1) The needs of the script
2) The fanwank you prefer
3) The crack the writers were smoking when they wrote the episode."

LOL! :) As funny as that is, I am inclined to disagree. Lionel's actions over the past few years have actually come together quite well. He's very three-dimensional, so he leaves us wondering what side he was on at what point in the show. But if you look back to season four and analyze each scene he's in throughout the next few seasons, his character progression is rather clear:

Season four: He is evil MB when sent to jail. After "Transference", he wants to change. Evil Lex in "Onyx" brings back the dark side in him. He tries to do everything in his power, using his old MB tactics, to get the stones away from Lex. He is stricken by his own greedy actions into a coma when the stones unite.

Five: He awakens from his coma in "Hidden", clearly knowing more than he's letting on. He then goes on to support Jonathan Kent, his adversary, in the election against his own son? Why? To get closer to Clark, whom he now is almost 100% certain is the Traveler. In "Reckoning", he attempts to sort of show Jonathan that he's in control of the situation, but his manipulative nature is present too. He clearly wants to be in charge of Clark's destiny. But he still made it clear that he doesn't want to expose Clark. Jonathan, in a rage, dies of a heart attack. "Vengeance", we find out Lionel killed the mom of that vigilante, Andrea, as part of his game to control Luthor Corp. But in "Mercy", he tells Martha that he's trying to stop Lex from going down the same destructive path as him. Clearly, Lionel in this season thinks it's too late for HIM to change, but he wants LEX to. But he grows closer to Martha and even starts to see Clark as a second son, a chance to start over. This leads into season...

Six: Lionel is trying to redeem himself again, but knows that he can't be all "puppies and hugs" Lionel like he was in season four. He still has to rely on his ruthless tactics on occasion, but overall, he DOES want to change. He pretends to get closer to Lex in "Static" with the whole 33.1 business in order to keep an eye on him. In "Promise", he blackmails Lana. But clearly the point of that was planned out from the beginning (the point being to use Lana as a spy on Lex in order to protect Clark). We find this out in "Phantom".

Seven: Lionel is continuing his quest to protect Clark. But he was such a sociopath most of his life, so it is difficult for him to be the "selfless hero". He is still very selfish, as we see in "Traveler". He cages Clark in that Kryptonite cell only to protect his own hide. He did not intend for Clark to die or be tortured, but he also didn't want Clark to know about those murders of the Veritas group either, nor did he want the world to know. The only way in his mind to protect himself, and therefore, protect Clark (since he sees himself as Clark's protector) was to temporarily use Clark as a bargaining chip for Patricia. Finally, he dies protecting the secret in "Descent".

It comes full circle.

"The son becomes the father and the father the son."

[Heroes4Hire]

In the beginning i think Lionel wanted to control Clark but after he was chosen by Jor-El his mission was to protect him.

[JNottle]

Using his twisted methods, I think he was trying to protect him after 5x19.

[Emissary of Justice]

Ok so if Veritas was in two camps a) Dr. Swan who saw the Traveller as a Savior and b) Mr. Teague who saw him as a threat if he could be controlled and therefore was willing to sacrifice him.To be fair, Edward saw him as savior until he realized Clark sucked.

[Vergon6]

"Lionel's actions depend on:

1) The needs of the script
2) The fanwank you prefer
3) The crack the writers were smoking when they wrote the episode."

LOL! :) As funny as that is, I am inclined to disagree. Lionel's actions over the past few years have actually come together quite well. He's very three-dimensional, so he leaves us wondering what side he was on at what point in the show. But if you look back to season four and analyze each scene he's in throughout the next few seasons, his character progression is rather clear:

Season four: He is evil MB when sent to jail. After "Transference", he wants to change. Evil Lex in "Onyx" brings back the dark side in him. He tries to do everything in his power, using his old MB tactics, to get the stones away from Lex. He is stricken by his own greedy actions into a coma when the stones unite.

Five: He awakens from his coma in "Hidden", clearly knowing more than he's letting on. He then goes on to support Jonathan Kent, his adversary, in the election against his own son? Why? To get closer to Clark, whom he now is almost 100% certain is the Traveler. In "Reckoning", he attempts to sort of show Jonathan that he's in control of the situation, but his manipulative nature is present too. He clearly wants to be in charge of Clark's destiny. But he still made it clear that he doesn't want to expose Clark. Jonathan, in a rage, dies of a heart attack. "Vengeance", we find out Lionel killed the mom of that vigilante, Andrea, as part of his game to control Luthor Corp. But in "Mercy", he tells Martha that he's trying to stop Lex from going down the same destructive path as him. Clearly, Lionel in this season thinks it's too late for HIM to change, but he wants LEX to. But he grows closer to Martha and even starts to see Clark as a second son, a chance to start over. This leads into season...

Six: Lionel is trying to redeem himself again, but knows that he can't be all "puppies and hugs" Lionel like he was in season four. He still has to rely on his ruthless tactics on occasion, but overall, he DOES want to change. He pretends to get closer to Lex in "Static" with the whole 33.1 business in order to keep an eye on him. In "Promise", he blackmails Lana. But clearly the point of that was planned out from the beginning (the point being to use Lana as a spy on Lex in order to protect Clark). We find this out in "Phantom".

Seven: Lionel is continuing his quest to protect Clark. But he was such a sociopath most of his life, so it is difficult for him to be the "selfless hero". He is still very selfish, as we see in "Traveler". He cages Clark in that Kryptonite cell only to protect his own hide. He did not intend for Clark to die or be tortured, but he also didn't want Clark to know about those murders of the Veritas group either, nor did he want the world to know. The only way in his mind to protect himself, and therefore, protect Clark (since he sees himself as Clark's protector) was to temporarily use Clark as a bargaining chip for Patricia. Finally, he dies protecting the secret in "Descent".

It comes full circle.

"The son becomes the father and the father the son."
Well put together explanation. I just wish that Lionel would have had set the record straight once and for all, instead of lying to Clark about his reasons for putting him in the cage, and leaving it up to interpretation when he 'really' knew Clark was the Traveler. We can extrapolate, but it would have been nice to get affirmation or denial of this as the truth.

[Thrill_Seeker]

You know I find that when you dont totally get the episode or you have some questions, watch it again, and like 90% of the time you pick up things that you had missed before.