Does this ruin Memoria?

[smallvillelogan]

So now it looks like it's possible that Brainiac killed Jor-El and Lara, and obviously Clark sent himself from Krypton.

There's other theories on the boards that say that Jor-El and Lara had already put Kal-El in the ship and left before Brainiac got there.

The first theory completely contradicts Memoria. Does that ruin the episode for you, since the continuity would be completely contradictory?

[Randy G.]

Well, I do spot little details, but it doesn't really ruin it for me, although it is a bit conflicting.
I learned looooong ago to pretty much just enjoy my Fantasy/Sci-Fi shows, almost on an episode per episode basis, and try to overlook the unexplained or contradictions. If I didn't I'd probably end up going crazy. :lol:

[smallvillelogan]

Yeah I guess I have got to learn to do that, because the more I think about the changes in the story in Apocalypse with regards to established facts in the past, it just makes me frustrated and causes me to think about it too much. :)

For me, to maintain the continuity though, I just would have loved for Kara, in that scene, to yell to Clark "your parents have already left, and we (her and Brainiac) got here right after" or something like that.

[KevStar]

In my opinion, time travel ALWAYS leaves some questions... It could be that Clark change time line for the FIRST TIME and my theory based upon the writings in Dr.Swanns journal - they popup after Kara travel through the time.

[oberyn]

I voted for "This is Smallville; who cares about conflicting continuity."

I guess our alternatives are:

1. Brainiac killed Lara and Jor-El.

2. Lara and Jor-El took the time to say goodbye, but didn't actually stick around to see whether or not the ship took off safely.

3. Lara and Jor-El said goodbye and then took bathroom breaks within a second or two of each other. Their last moments involved both pointing fingers and saying "I thought you said you were going to watch the baby!"

I know Clark hasn't always been portrayed as the sharpest tool in the shed, and explanations 2 and 3 would certainly explain a few things.

Seriously though, Clark still remembers that scene (from "Memoria") and we, the audience, still remember it, so I guess that's all that really matters.

[All about Clark]

I believe in Memoria he might have additional memories of that event, but the memories they showed should still be correct. Braniac most likely killed Clark's parents after they said there goodbyes.

[christian_kryptonian]

When Memoria happened, Brainiac had not yet gone back in time, so Clark had not been able to place himself in the ship. It's not conflicting because time was only just now altered.

[The Great Ymmij]

I wrote this in the "mistake/plotholes" thread, but I'll put it here too since this is a more specific thread about "Memoria."

Just b/c Jor-El and Lara didn't put baby Kal-El in the ship doesn't mean baby Kal-El won't remember them. Clark seems to have a really good memory since "Memoria" shows that he remembered things when he was just an infant. I mean, I'm sure Lara didn't just give birth to the baby and immediately ship him off. Baby Kal-El was nurtured and taken care of for a few weeks, maybe even months, by Lara before he was shipped off.

So in conclusion, who cares if Clark was the one to put his baby self in the ship. Baby Kal-El will still remember the love Lara gave to him and consequently have Clark scream "Lara!!" in the kryptonite bath in "Memoria."

[cksidekick]

When Memoria happened, Brainiac had not yet gone back in time, so Clark had not been able to place himself in the ship. It's not conflicting because time was only just now altered.



that doesn't matter in time travel....there is no FIRST time...it is a loop that happens over and over and over and over.......................

[Lara Lane]

that doesn't matter in time travel....there is no FIRST time...it is a loop that happens over and over and over and over.......................

Exactly! :D

[smallvillelogan]

that doesn't matter in time travel....there is no FIRST time...it is a loop that happens over and over and over and over.......................

Yeah the baby that was sent that will now grow to become Clark will not remember his parents sending him off if he finds himself in the same position (in Summerholt test labs) as his older self did four years ago.

[All about Clark]

Kal-el was in the ship, and Braniac removed Kal-el and placed him elsewhere. The parents still put Kal-el on the ship, that memory wouldn't change, he should just have an additional memory of being removed by Braniac and replaced by Clark. How weird to remember yourself holding you, kind of eww.

[Krypton935]

I'm thinking that it probably still happened. tptb cant cahnge it- its part of the legend

[roccanater]

They are both great episodes!

[Thrill_Seeker]

dont EVER.....EVER......EVER
try and undertsand how all this time stuff works, trust me its just a bunch a' bashing on your head. I mean technically what happens to clark when in memoria hes in the lab and sees his parents, but he'd see himself.
so then does the real clark still have the memory of his parents, or does he see himself, does that at all affect the clark that grows up ???

like serisouly, just dont bother with it, I mean its just wayyyyyyyy too complicated.
too many questions.
I definetly dont think it ruins memoria, I just think it was cool that clark got to put himself in the ship, imagine having a memory of the past when you were a baby and seeing yourself !!! that'd be weeeeeeird

[minerva73]

I don't think that it ruins "Memoria". For some reason, I feel that we'll get a mention of Jor-El and/or Lara's names in "Arctic" if Clark goes to speak with Jor-El and maybe he'll explain it.

People said that what happened with Grant Gabriel saying that he's Julian Luthor at the end of "Blue" was what ruined "Memoria", but a month later, those people were proven wrong. I have some faith that they'll come back to this... Somehow... :\

[Vergon6]

It's those damn temporal mechanics, don't even try to understand it ;) Plus Jor-El looks exactly like Clark, so even if he was affected by the timeline change, he would still remember his "father" putting him in the ship lol And conveniently Kara has blonde hair like Lara :p

[borednow]

This is Smallville, we are lucky when the writers remember 3 episodes back... you expect them to keep something that happened 5-6 years ago straight?

[superhippie2000]

nah i think the flashback with jor el and lara happened and brainiac intercepted the ship before it took off. jor el probably sent the ship on its way and went off to do his job of trying to help ones he could help. brainiac probably hid till they left. or perhaps had kara call them over and distract them while he took kal el.

[TheLastKryptonian]

It doesn't bother me and I think it's pretty simple, so why fuss about everything?


Brainiac and Kara come from the future (Veritas).

Kara knows that Brainiac is trying to kill baby Kal-El (Sleeper).

The war against Zod increases (Kara: The Chronicles of Krypton mini-series @ CWTV.com).


Zor-El is in league with Zod and next episode (next week) more development will occur (Kara: The Chronicles of Krypton mini-series @ CWTV.com)

Kara tries to keep Brainiac away from baby Kal-El as best she can (Sleeper).

Jor-El learns of the planet's doomed fate.

Jor-El and Lara place baby Kal-El in the ship (Memoria).

Brainiac enters and kills both Jor-El and Lara. (we can assume the bodies were either disintegrated or absorb or lying else where in the room).

Brainiac takes baby Kal-El OUT of the ship to kill him elsewhere since Kara is trying to hold him off (Apocalypse). And we can assume that since the ship is automated, Brainiac didn't want to risk the ship taking off with baby Kal-El still inside it, if he had tried to kill baby Kal-El IN the ship.

Clark Kent/Kal-El arrives from the future (Apocalypse).

Clark and Kara vs Brainiac (Apocalypse).

Kara handles Brainiac while Clark puts baby Kal-El IN the ship (Apocalypse).

Kara kills Brainiac, the left leaves Krypton moments before the planet and sun explode (Apocalypse).


There's your continuity, and that should answer all complaints. :D

[wildenchantress_kt]

Even if the memoria moment still happened. Why couldn't we have brainiac take Kal-El out the ship and try and kill him. He would remember his father putting him in the ship and even if Jor-El's house had guards Clark would still be able to get in since it was established in season three's "Relic" that Jor-El and Clark are identical.

[clarkbunny]

OK now here's my thoughts on this.

With regards to Clark remembering putting himself in the spaceship, I think he would remember a man who looked exactly like him placing him in the spaceship but as he wouldn't have travelled back in time yet (during Memoria) he wouldn't realise it was actually him and would think it was a strange man or his father. He wouldn't realise it was himself until he was actually back on Krypton.

If the writers had really thought about it - to keep continuity they should have had Jor-El and Lara knocked out on the floor while the drama with Brainiac was going on. Then they could have still woken up and put Kal-El in his ship and Clark could have either hung around to meet them - cue a Superman foreshadowing moment as his parents tell him first hand of his great destiny/ the son becomes the father and the father the son ('ve never really understood that but anyway) or Clark could have checked they were OK had a momentary loving glance at his parents then gone leaving them to put Kal El in the ship when they woke up. Brainiac could have stayed undiscovered under the giant rock so Lara nad Jor-El would never know he was there.

Did anyone else find it odd how Kara still seemed to have super strength on a par with Brainiac's whilst on Krypton when Clark had none?

Also what did Brainiac need Kara for if he was going to time travel back to Krypton via a space/time portal? Surely he could have just gone back to Krypton and used the Kara there - seeing as she is exactly the same age as the one in Smallville now - just something I noticed.

[Kal-El-073]

You have to remember that in "Memoria" while Jor-El and Lara were putting baby Clark in the ship that the walls weren't falling down around them, so it's safe to say that Braniac arrived after they left, took the baby from the ship, and hence we get to where we're at in "Apocalypse".

[yosemiteangel]

Nope, it didn't ruin it for me. :\

[LexLuv180]

I still think he didn't kill them. I think he interfered with the ships' leaving somehow. So no, it's not ruined for me.

[clarkbunny]

^
That's possible but Brainiac would have had to capture the ship as it was travelling towards earth. The ship had to already have left Krypton as I don't see Lara and Jor-El putting their only son in a ship and then leaving it to take off on it's own. In that case what happened doesn't affect continuity - Clark would just have two memories

1. Of his parents putting him in the ship

and

2. Of him putting himself in the ship

[GuardianAngel]

Even if the memoria moment still happened. Why couldn't we have brainiac take Kal-El out the ship and try and kill him. He would remember his father putting him in the ship and even if Jor-El's house had guards Clark would still be able to get in since it was established in season three's "Relic" that Jor-El and Clark are identical.

What we saw in Memoria was Clark's FIRST memory whereas BRAINIAC taking him out of the ship would be his second memory.

I rewatched "Kara" this morning and it did surprise me how Kara didn't seem to recognise Clark at all when she met him. Hadn't she ever met Jor-el - her own uncle? I would have expected her to think Clark was Jor-el seeing as she thought Kal-el was still a baby..

[TheLastKryptonian]

Just found out this (below) so I think that "Memoria" still happened and good job on the writers for putting it in this episode.

Clark's yellow baby blanket is seen again; it has been previously shown in Clark's earliest memory in "Memoria".

[The Great Ymmij]

What we saw in Memoria was Clark's FIRST memory whereas BRAINIAC taking him out of the ship would be his second memory.

I rewatched "Kara" this morning and it did surprise me how Kara didn't seem to recognise Clark at all when she met him. Hadn't she ever met Jor-el - her own uncle? I would have expected her to think Clark was Jor-el seeing as she thought Kal-el was still a baby..

I'm sure Jor-El was a lot older than he was in "Relic" when he put Kal-El in the ship. He would look a bit different.

[DreadShamus]

Clark placing himself in the ship was a nice scene, but taking that away from Jor-El and Lara sucks. I was meh about it.

[All about Clark]

I believe that Jor-el and Lara put Kal-el in the ship and afterwards Braniac killed them or knocked them out in order to grab Kal-el. It was clear to me that Braniac grabbed Kal-el from the ship he'd already been placed into.

[TheLastKryptonian]

Time travel is a VERY complicated thing. So don't bother about it too much. As long as the (present) Clark we know remembers his parents putting him in the ship that memory will never fade. Only downside is that baby Kal-El from "Apocalypse" will remember present Clark putting him in the ship but it's not like we're going to see that future Clark again.

Anyways for all we know the writers may go into greater detail in "Arctic" of what happened in "Apocalypse" and if Brainiac did interfere with Lara and Jor-El. I mean if the real Kara is in the Phantom Zone and that happened in "Apocalypse" I don't see why that scene wouldn't be shown and maybe show some others scenes like Brainiac, Jor-El and Lara too.

[Cl4rk_K3nt]

Well, Jor-El promised to stay on Krypton and Lara wouldn't leave his side. So they sent the ship off, but it was hijacked en route by Brainiac. Jor-El and Lara must have gone to somewhere safe.

Now, the time travel part. Clark through out the episode was in a parallel world where he never actually existed. So, when he got sent back to Krypton in his real time frame and saved himself, he only existed as a baby. When him and Kara left Krypton, the Alternative world ceased to exist and time fast forwarded to 2008. So, Clark has a memory of saving himself, because he saw it as a baby but not as the adult Clark, although the Alternative Clark saved him. Because he crossed over, he became a fixed point. Probably the only reason Clark remembered was cus it was relevant to the story.

Does that help?

[zorasuperman]

no we all know it happened on planet krypton