It's supposed to be his worst nightmare... seemed like a walk in the park!

[Hopefulsuicide]

I loved the episode in every way except one, and that bugs me alot

I mean Lana's 'ill kill him if he hurts clark' thing was perfect, and said with this cold simplicity. Chloe's reasoning with Jor-el was heart felt. Lionel's stuttering attemtps at an explanation showed how frightened of loosing clark he is, and lex wiping the blood off patricia's necklace with this intregued look on his face was really chilling.

But Clark showed nothing.

Ever since he was tiny his parents drilled into him to keep his secret, because they were afraid someone would take him away and keep him locked up and study him. He has probably had hundreds of nightmares about a man like peirce. A sadistic man who would call him a freak and hurt him.

It happened! well not the studying part, but the torture and the calling him a freak and being locked up. Why wasn't he more terrified. It was just terrible acting. I felt no emotion from Clark the whole time he was in that cage. I wanted to see terror in his eyes, something actually dramatic.

Then when he was out, and he said 'i'll deal with lionel' i thought there might be hope of seeing this drama. The man he trusted even after everything he had done, just put him through the most horrible experiance of his life. I expect him to be so angry, to yell at him, to look at him in complete disgust.

Didn't get that either. He just looked a little annoyed, and kinda dissapointed. I would have spat in Lionel's face!

It just let the whole episode down for me.

[LexLuv180]

Hmmmm...well I've already said a few times I think Clark shows less emotion in general in every way this entire season. I did see fear in his face and mainly defiance/fighting spirit with the entrapment though. I really wasn't overly disappointedly there, I thought his acting during the pain scenes was great, and the fight at the barn. His fighting spirit seemed to come through more than extreme fear (which I think was there), and when Pierce called him a freak, I saw a flash of hurt on his face.

[litew8]

It's supposed to be his worst nightmare... seemed like a walk in the park!
Yep. I thought he was going to fall asleep at one point. :lol:
Heck, he was face down on the ground for prob. 85% of the show. zzzzzzzz

[Hopefulsuicide]

hahahahaha

too true... i wanted more 'you'll never get away with this, just let me go, what do you want from me' yellings


Hmmmm...well I've already said a few times I think Clark shows less emotion in general in every way this entire season. I did see fear in his face and mainly defiance/fighting spirit with the entrapment though. I really wasn't overly disappointedly there, I thought his acting during the pain scenes was great, and the fight at the barn. His fighting spirit seemed to come through more than extreme fear (which I think was there), and when Pierce called him a freak, I saw a flash of hurt on his face.

i didnt see much of his fighting spirit tbh... he kept quite and just lay there most of the time. i did see the flash of hurt, and there was some fear... but it wasnt strong enough... i dont know if you've seen the end of Roswell season 1, but check it out

in that, Max is visibly petrified, and by the end, completely defeated. when isobel enters his mind, she comes out so shaken that she is crying, because he is so scared. thats real.

this was just another gimmick... ohhhh a kryptonite cage, cool

[LexLuv180]

I would have figured the Kryptonian cage would have hurt him more when it wasn't turned up higher, too. I mean, a small necklace can make him fall to his knees, but being in a cage where it's hardly turned up didn't phase him at first?

[litew8]

If there was EVER a time for Clark's ears to have bleed (ligitimately, not like in Siren), it was when the power was cranked up to 100.

[Kal el of krypton]

yeah also he couldn't really show much fear and anger or so when he's in so much pain from kryptonite. I think thats how tom went towards it. The majority of the episode was clark in pain.

[Hopefulsuicide]

well yeah, but the fear doesnt extend to just while he was in the cage

it shud have shaken him up a bit at the least... maybe he would have been a bit jumpy when people walk in... it's plausible that he now gets anxious everytime he is in the barn, gets flashbacks... it should have been a traumatic experiance... but he seemed just fine to me

besides when he wasnt in pain in the cage, he just seemd annoyed

[GuardianAngel]

Clark was too much in pain to show any other emotions. But I have to admit I was kind of disappointed by the effects of the cage on him, I mean he could even stand up! Yet, when someone takes a tiny meteor rock out, he falls to the ground.... Weird!

[litew8]

Why couldn't he use his XRAYVISION to look into the room above?

[GuardianAngel]

I suppose because Kryptonite made him temporarily powerless??

[MidgardDragon]

Do me a favor. Go get locked up in a cage that is electrified, and have the intensity constantly changed and intensified so that you are completely drained and knocking on death's door. Then tell me Clark being in a kryptonite cage was a walk in the park.

----- Added 2 Minutes later -----


Clark was too much in pain to show any other emotions. But I have to admit I was kind of disappointed by the effects of the cage on him, I mean he could even stand up! Yet, when someone takes a tiny meteor rock out, he falls to the ground.... Weird!

There were times when he was on the cage writing on the ground, when the intensity was at its highest. Remember that the intensity was raised and lowered. I imagine those rocks that he falls to the ground with are some kind of super-intense meteor rocks, and the ones we've seen him fight through or super-speed away from are of a lower intensity. In the cage they went through various levels and at lower intensities he was able to function much like he does near those lower intensities of meteor rocks, and when they upped the levels, he was writhing on the ground.

[Hopefulsuicide]

Do me a favor. Go get locked up in a cage that is electrified, and have the intensity constantly changed and intensified so that you are completely drained and knocking on death's door. Then tell me Clark being in a kryptonite cage was a walk in the park.
.

did you even read my post? i never implied he wasn't in pain, i was talking about the phsycological impact seeming like a walk in the park

[98chase]

hahahahaha

too true... i wanted more 'you'll never get away with this, just let me go, what do you want from me' yellings



i didnt see much of his fighting spirit tbh... he kept quite and just lay there most of the time.
Yeah, but had he had he not been laid out the whole episode or had he used any of his powers, there would have been the same issues that people had last episode. Some seemed upset that Clark got near Kryptonite, yet was still able to throw a huge palette of gum across a room. Had Clark not been laid out, some fans would have been upset that "he's not as effected by Kryptonite anymore."

[Hopefulsuicide]

dont get me wrong, i personally have no problem with the way the physical representation of his pain was portrayed

just the mental

[BadToad]

I know I should just stop myself from responding to Clark bashing threads, but...

Personally, I loved that Clark was able to maintain his strength and composure, even while being tortured, and even while facing his worst fear. TW played him, brilliantly might I add, with a quiet calm and dignity. He wasn't going to let this sadistic animal see him cry, or grovel, or break. He remained as stong as he could be. He dared this person to come face him. He stayed on his feet as long as he could. I loved the scenes of him struggling to get back up on his feet. I found it very meaningful. He's facing his biggest fear standing up, and he's going to keep trying until he physically can't anymore.

Seems to me that some people are always complaining that Clark is too emo, or whatever this weeks criticism is. But when Clark shows fortitude, and courage and strength of character, then he's not showing enough emotion? Talk about never being able to win :\

As for the confrontation with Lionel, I couldn't have been more pleased with that. We've seen Clark fly off the handle before, and its not pretty, but he's grown up. He walks in confidently, he asks the right questions. You can see he's angry, he's hurt, he's disappointed, he's betrayed. But most of all, he's calm. Just as the he'll need to be in the future when he's Superman. IMO, it was so much more effective then if he had flown off the handle, or yelled and screamed. This was a mature, composed Clark who handled a horrific ordeal with dignity and strength.

I thought he was amazing. JMHO

[Yasise]

I loved the episode in every way except one, and that bugs me alot

I mean Lana's 'ill kill him if he hurts clark' thing was perfect, and said with this cold simplicity. Chloe's reasoning with Jor-el was heart felt. Lionel's stuttering attemtps at an explanation showed how frightened of loosing clark he is, and lex wiping the blood off patricia's necklace with this intregued look on his face was really chilling.

But Clark showed nothing.

Ever since he was tiny his parents drilled into him to keep his secret, because they were afraid someone would take him away and keep him locked up and study him. He has probably had hundreds of nightmares about a man like peirce. A sadistic man who would call him a freak and hurt him.

It happened! well not the studying part, but the torture and the calling him a freak and being locked up. Why wasn't he more terrified. It was just terrible acting. I felt no emotion from Clark the whole time he was in that cage. I wanted to see terror in his eyes, something actually dramatic.

Then when he was out, and he said 'i'll deal with lionel' i thought there might be hope of seeing this drama. The man he trusted even after everything he had done, just put him through the most horrible experiance of his life. I expect him to be so angry, to yell at him, to look at him in complete disgust.

Didn't get that either. He just looked a little annoyed, and kinda dissapointed. I would have spat in Lionel's face!

It just let the whole episode down for me.

I agree totally with that cage and locked up part of yours! That's the reason I gave this ep only a 8 in the "loved it or hated it?" thread. Tom did this pain and fear stuff much better in other ep's, e.g. in "Extinction" S3, where he's shot with that kryptonite bullet. That scene was terrific, concerning his acting!!! Everytime I watched this scene so far, I always get chills and you believe every second, that Clark's in so much pain and that he's terrified.
I expected the same in "Traveler" as soon as I heard about that cage thing - but it was different and I didn't get chills.
And I don't want to talk again, about the different reactions to kryptonite all over the seasons, because I did it so many times in other threads. Only this one: With so much kryptonite around him, he must not have been able to stand up again and again, when on other times he could barely lift his arm. This is really so not logical!

Concerning that scene between Lionel and Clark, I thought it was really good, but you're right, too, Clark could have been a little more loud and more furious! I loooove Tom playing angry Clark - that's so amazing!!


Hmmmm...well I've already said a few times I think Clark shows less emotion in general in every way this entire season.....

Dear LexLuv, I did agree with that for so many times now, I hope you don't mind? But unfortunately it is true. The only thing, which was better in this ep, was his hair ;o)
It looked better than the other ep's before :)


I would have figured the Kryptonian cage would have hurt him more when it wasn't turned up higher, too. I mean, a small necklace can make him fall to his knees, but being in a cage where it's hardly turned up didn't phase him at first?

Like I said above :)


If there was EVER a time for Clark's ears to have bleed (ligitimately, not like in Siren), it was when the power was cranked up to 100.

Yeah, didn't thought about that, but you're right. But he still could hold up his hand when it was on 100 and to somehow reach out to Kara, or what was that ment to be actually?
I would have expected, that on level 100, he would at least faint. But no, he stood almost up again, as soon as Kara lifted up that cage. Sorry, but I didn't buy that either, not after being exposed for quite a long time to kryptonite.

[GuardianAngel]

I must admit I was quite happy with Clark, too. My complaint concerning the scenes in the cage is with the effect of Kryptonite on Clark. They could have used more CGI effects to show his veins get bigger or whatever happens to him when he's exposed to Kryptonite. He was bleeding- Fine. But that's only because of the Kryptonite darts used to capture him.

[Hopefulsuicide]

I agree totally with that cage and locked up part of yours! That's the reason I gave this ep only a 8 in the "loved it or hated it?" thread. Tom did this pain and fear stuff much better in other ep's, e.g. in "Extinction" S3, where he's shot with that kryptonite bullet. That scene was terrific, concerning his acting!!! Everytime I watched this scene so far, I always get chills and you believe every second, that Clark's in so much pain and that he's terrified.
.

your right, that scene was perfect, and he was scared and it was obvious, but he still went out after him, showing how brave he was

this scene didnt show how brave he was... you have to overcome fear in order to appear brave in my eyes... i saw no fear, and no overcoming of it

even when Kara saved him, his thankyou seemed so normal, like he was thanking her for stopping a cake from buring in the oven... no distress, no 'please, get me out of here' like that wonderful chilling line to Lex in memoria

it was just devoid of emotion

[Yasise]

your right, that scene was perfect, and he was scared and it was obvious, but he still went out after him, showing how brave he was

this scene didnt show how brave he was... you have to overcome fear in order to appear brave in my eyes... i saw no fear, and no overcoming of it

even when Kara saved him, his thankyou seemed so normal, like he was thanking her for stopping a cake from buring in the oven... no distress, no 'please, get me out of here' like that wonderful chilling line to Lex in memoria

it was just devoid of emotion

Yeas, I said in other threads before, there is that thing with Kara and Clark. I don't feel any chemistry between them at all. Scenes with the two cousins are always so "normal" and almost reserved. I always get the feeling that they don't like each other so much. Even after that rescue in the barn later I missed the warmth that should have been there between them.

Hello, she just saved your life, Clark, and you don't even hug her!?

No instead you stay where you are, above on that stairs, and talk to her like you would talk about the weather. It was so not emotional at all, what was that???

And I know, that Tom could have done it better, and that's the reason, why I don't understand it.

[clarkbunny]

Well I thought TW did great. If there had been visible fear in the cage it would have been over the top in my opinion as there was nobody to play off. His reaction was just right pain and defiance as he didn't know who had trapped him in the cage and he couldn't see his captors.

If he had been injected with kryptonite and subjected to tests like Chloe was when she was kidnapped then fear would be justifiable as that would be a true definition of his nightmare - being experimented on. In the cage he didn't what was going on just the pain of the varying levels of kryptonite. When you're in that much pain it leaves little room for feeling or thinking about much else.

The scene with Lionel was perfect, you could sense Lionel's unease and fear at the impending confrontation. I was expecting Clark to be a little angrier and he did show a bit of that when he said "so you lock me in a kryptonite cage?, why would you even build something like that?"

My only problem was the time between Clark being rescued by Kara and the confrontation with Lionel. He obviously went up to that room in the faciltity as he took Patricia back to his house but it seems odd that he would wait until the next day to confront Lionel.

[boywithbluehanger]

Then when he was out, and he said 'i'll deal with lionel' i thought there might be hope of seeing this drama. The man he trusted even after everything he had done, just put him through the most horrible experiance of his life. I expect him to be so angry, to yell at him, to look at him in complete disgust.

Didn't get that either. He just looked a little annoyed, and kinda dissapointed. I would have spat in Lionel's face!

It just let the whole episode down for me.

That's just a testament to TW's lack of a decent acting background. He's sometimes stiff in his acting at times and isn't known at all for adlib performances. Luckily and interstingly enough, the lack of that quality usually fits into the role of this version of Clark Kent.

Ever notice that you rarely see Clark really angry. And even in the instances that he is, TW does not put a enough emotion into Clark. He'll yell (when speaking to Jor-El) but other than that it's a slight lean forward and an upset face with a "You're not my friend anymore" type of feel. You won't get much more than that.

TW can get away with it on SV since Clark is probably supposed to be a master at restraining himself when upset. Otherwise Ma and Pa Kent would never take him to the shopping center as a kid knowing he'd throw a fit whenever he didn't get the toy he wanted. ;)

[SeaNymph]

I don't know. I thought he did a great job. I really winced every single time he got tortured.

[Hopefulsuicide]

Well I thought TW did great. If there had been visible fear in the cage it would have been over the top in my opinion as there was nobody to play off. His reaction was just right pain and defiance as he didn't know who had trapped him in the cage and he couldn't see his captors.

If he had been injected with kryptonite and subjected to tests like Chloe was when she was kidnapped then fear would be justifiable as that would be a true definition of his nightmare - being experimented on. In the cage he didn't what was going on just the pain of the varying levels of kryptonite. When you're in that much pain it leaves little room for feeling or thinking about much else.

The scene with Lionel was perfect, you could sense Lionel's unease and fear at the impending confrontation. I was expecting Clark to be a little angrier and he did show a bit of that when he said "so you lock me in a kryptonite cage?, why would you even build something like that?"

My only problem was the time between Clark being rescued by Kara and the confrontation with Lionel. He obviously went up to that room in the faciltity as he took Patricia back to his house but it seems odd that he would wait until the next day to confront Lionel.

the whole time he was in the cage he had no idea what was going to happen to him or who had him... he assumed it was the government, so you can assumed he thought he was going to get experimented on... and i dont see how him being in pain means he cant be afraid... i'd say every time he got exposed to that much pain he would show more fear when it was let off a bit... i mean he did a bit of trying to get out when he threw himself at the cage but it wasnt very effective

and thats fair enough if your found the scene perfect, i just thought if it were me i'd be alot angrier with Lionel for risking my life by leaving it in the hands of that sadistic torturer

----- Added 1 Minutes later -----


That's just a testament to TW's lack of a decent acting background. He's sometimes stiff in his acting at times and isn't known at all for adlib performances. Luckily and interstingly enough, the lack of that quality usually fits into the role of this version of Clark Kent.

Ever notice that you rarely see Clark really angry. And even in the instances that he is, TW does not put a enough emotion into Clark. He'll yell (when speaking to Jor-El) but other than that it's a slight lean forward and an upset face with a "You're not my friend anymore" type of feel. You won't get much more than that.

TW can get away with it on SV since Clark is probably supposed to be a master at restraining himself when upset. Otherwise Ma and Pa Kent would never take him to the shopping center as a kid knowing he'd throw a fit whenever he didn't get the toy he wanted. ;)

agreed LOL... i know it's mostly his acting

[Yasise]

That's just a testament to TW's lack of a decent acting background. He's sometimes stiff in his acting at times and isn't known at all for adlib performances. Luckily and interstingly enough, the lack of that quality usually fits into the role of this version of Clark Kent.

Ever notice that you rarely see Clark really angry. And even in the instances that he is, TW does not put a enough emotion into Clark. He'll yell (when speaking to Jor-El) but other than that it's a slight lean forward and an upset face with a "You're not my friend anymore" type of feel. You won't get much more than that.

TW can get away with it on SV since Clark is probably supposed to be a master at restraining himself when upset. Otherwise Ma and Pa Kent would never take him to the shopping center as a kid knowing he'd throw a fit whenever he didn't get the toy he wanted. ;)

I disagree. Tom is so much able to act angry, e.g. in "Rogue" S1, where he gets really very angry with that cop, who wants to use his abilities for his own purposes. Sorry, but that scene in the kitchen was very much an angry Clark!
And when he was Kal-El, he got very angry, too, especially with Morgan Edge, when he came to the farm after Clark.

I think Tom has enough talent, to not need a "decent acting background" as you put it. He's really a master of showing Clark's emotions, without saying a single word.

But, as I said in other threads before, it seems lately, that he doesn't put so much emotions into Clark anymore, since season 7 began. Maybe lack of enthusiasm for Smallville after so many years...???

So you're partially right, with what you've said, IMO, but only concerning season 7 so far. The other seasons he was perfect in terms of showing Clark's emotions.

[Jaded Wolf]

I loved the episode in every way except one, and that bugs me alot

I mean Lana's 'ill kill him if he hurts clark' thing was perfect, and said with this cold simplicity. Chloe's reasoning with Jor-el was heart felt. Lionel's stuttering attemtps at an explanation showed how frightened of loosing clark he is, and lex wiping the blood off patricia's necklace with this intregued look on his face was really chilling.

But Clark showed nothing.

Ever since he was tiny his parents drilled into him to keep his secret, because they were afraid someone would take him away and keep him locked up and study him. He has probably had hundreds of nightmares about a man like peirce. A sadistic man who would call him a freak and hurt him.

It happened! well not the studying part, but the torture and the calling him a freak and being locked up. Why wasn't he more terrified. It was just terrible acting. I felt no emotion from Clark the whole time he was in that cage. I wanted to see terror in his eyes, something actually dramatic.

Then when he was out, and he said 'i'll deal with lionel' i thought there might be hope of seeing this drama. The man he trusted even after everything he had done, just put him through the most horrible experiance of his life. I expect him to be so angry, to yell at him, to look at him in complete disgust.

Didn't get that either. He just looked a little annoyed, and kinda dissapointed. I would have spat in Lionel's face!

It just let the whole episode down for me.

What?! Did you not see the restraint Clark had on his face as he confronted Lionel? Lionel told Clark "I'm a changed man." There was a moment of hesitation and then Clark flatly and condemningly says, "No you're not." Sure Clark could have thrown Lionel out the window or tossed him around or yelled at him. Then posters would be on here saying, "That's not a Superman thing to do." They would be griping about how uncharacteristic that was just like they are now when Clark said the Luthors are not redeemable. Clark held back quite a bit but delivered the one line that would show Lionel Clark was not going to be fooled any longer.

[Yasise]

the whole time he was in the cage he had no idea what was going to happen to him or who had him... he assumed it was the government, so you can assumed he thought he was going to get experimented on... and i dont see how him being in pain means he cant be afraid... i'd say every time he got exposed to that much pain he would show more fear when it was let off a bit... i mean he did a bit of trying to get out when he threw himself at the cage but it wasnt very effective

and thats fair enough if your found the scene perfect, i just thought if it were me i'd be alot angrier with Lionel for risking my life by leaving it in the hands of that sadistic torturer...........

Yes, it could have been more, e.g. the much more pain of that "Clark has been shot" scene of "Extinction", a little paranoia of "Splinter" and a little more fear of "Labyrinth" altogether in that cage scenes - WOW, that would have been a real treat!!

Tom, you could have done it better!

[All about Clark]

I agree with BadToad that TPTB and director seemed to want a more dignified and calm Clark. Also when you are in so much pain other emotions don't necessarily show through.

I did think Clark would be more pissed in his last conversation with Lionel. But I also think Lionel was scared and was more disappointed that he lost Clark's confidence. For Clark, what's done is done, move on. And now Lionel won't be included and that will hurt Lionel more than if Clark lashed out.

[Hopefulsuicide]

What?! Did you not see the restraint Clark had on his face as he confronted Lionel?

i really didn't... i'm sorry, i usually love Clark/ Lionel confrontations, but this one left me dry

----- Added 3 Minutes later -----


I agree with BadToad that TPTB and director seemed to want a more dignified and calm Clark. Also when you are in so much pain other emotions don't necessarily show through.

I did think Clark would be more pissed in his last conversation with Lionel. But I also think Lionel was scared and was more disappointed that he lost Clark's confidence. For Clark, what's done is done, move on. And now Lionel won't be included and that will hurt Lionel more than if Clark lashed out.

if the directors wanted a more dignified and calm clark... then it's them im gonna moan at

you dont show a characters worst fear, something which has been talked about and built up during the show and played on in episodes like 'memoria' (which was a thousand times more convincing, even when lex confronted him after and said 'my father used you as a lab rat' and there was a definate jumpiness and unease about clark) and do it with calm and dignity

thats not how a fantasy/drama works... its unrealistic, and it takes away the tension

how are we supposed to be on the edge of our seats worried bout Clark and egging Chloe on and feeling all that emotion... if the one we are supposed to be worried about is 'calm and dignified'?

[All about Clark]

Actually I felt Memoria had a lot to do with Clark's fear of imprisonment and that he is less afraid. He's been shown to really deal well with whatever situation he faces, because he constantly faces stuff regularly than you and I wouldn't need to face. I like that they have shown him to have matured from Memoria. I wouldn't want him as wigged out as he was then. And he has had many years to deal with this fear. Just as his fear of heights, he's constantly accepting these things better. Some people's fears grow and some overcome them and I think Clark overcomes them based on so many experiences.

[litew8]

There were times when he was on the cage writing on the ground, when the intensity was at its highest.:confused: What did he write? :rolleyes:

[LexLuv180]

I disagree. Tom is so much able to act angry, e.g. in "Rogue" S1, where he gets really very angry with that cop, who wants to use his abilities for his own purposes. Sorry, but that scene in the kitchen was very much an angry Clark!
And when he was Kal-El, he got very angry, too, especially with Morgan Edge, when he came to the farm after Clark.

I think Tom has enough talent, to not need a "decent acting background" as you put it. He's really a master of showing Clark's emotions, without saying a single word.

But, as I said in other threads before, it seems lately, that he doesn't put so much emotions into Clark anymore, since season 7 began. Maybe lack of enthusiasm for Smallville after so many years...???

So you're partially right, with what you've said, IMO, but only concerning season 7 so far. The other seasons he was perfect in terms of showing Clark's emotions.

Yet again we agree with each other! I like how he portrayed anger in the past. I guess we'll just keep bashing our heads against the wall collectively, wondering whether this change is from Tom, the writers, or what. :rotfl:

[All about Clark]

This is Tom's show, he's not going to do anything to jeapardize it. I think you need to be blaming the directors and producers. Tom can do anything they ask of him in regards to his acting.

[GuardianAngel]

:confused: What did he write? :rolleyes:

He wrote: Kara's coming! :lol:

[Twitch]

He wrote: Kara's coming! :lol:
Or "Clark was here." :D

[All about Clark]

What's funny is that everyone wants Clark to mature and the moment he does, then there's something wrong with Tom.

Being that there is only 1 season left, I suspect we'll see Clark handling himself more Supermanly and mature with each passing episode.

[LexLuv180]

I don't have offense to see him mature, but to me emotionless does not equal maturity. Either way, I never meant Tom wasn't a great actor.

[Welling_is_pretty]

Why wasn't he more terrified. It was just terrible acting. I felt no emotion from Clark the whole time he was in that cage. I wanted to see terror in his eyes, something actually dramatic.
I think he busy being in deep physical pain. There were flashes of terror but most of the time he was busying wondering if he was going to die, likely. Or perhaps he wasn't afraid because he knew the girls would save him!
I thought Welling's performance was subtle and nuanced, though i did think he was going to do a bit more talking....More "I'm a person, why can't we be friends?" stuff.


Then when he was out, and he said 'i'll deal with lionel' i thought there might be hope of seeing this drama. The man he trusted even after everything he had done, just put him through the most horrible experiance of his life. I expect him to be so angry, to yell at him, to look at him in complete disgust.

Didn't get that either. He just looked a little annoyed, and kinda dissapointed. I would have spat in Lionel's face!
Part of it might have been that he was hoping that Lionel was still on his side. Part of it might have been a rage so deep that it made him still and quiet (those are the ones to look out for, baby!). Part of it is that he was ingrained very early on not to let loose and get mad and go all crazy with the powers and the anger and everything. But I think the biggest part of it is that Clark just isn't like that. He's never been a 'spit in your face' kinda guy. It's not in his nature (which is why it is so startling when we see it).
So I say kudos to both the writers and Tom for staying true to the character.

Course that's all just my opinion. *smiles cheekily*





Heck, he was face down on the ground for prob. 85% of the show.
I rather enjoyed that, personally. (Is it terrible that when he was lying there in pain I was sitting there thinking 'cute butt!"? :p)

[BadToad]

What's funny is that everyone wants Clark to mature and the moment he does, then there's something wrong with Tom.

Yeah, thats pretty much how it goes. If he breaks or shows fear, then he's a wimp. If he broods about something, then he's emo. If he's stoic, then he's emotionless (and Tom is a bad actor, can't forget that gem :rolleyes:). If he's harsh and yells at someone, then he can't be Superman because Supes never gives up on anyone. If he's violent, then he's a thug. And so on, and so forth.

[Hopefulsuicide]

i'm sorry, but i love superman. in the most recent scenarios he has acted with fear and emotion and no one has called him any less superman

i.e. in superman returns he got beaten up and he was viasbly scared

in lois and clark, he was kept in a kryptonite cage by lex, but the fear was obvious, and the pain was more believable... i'm sorry by TW arching his back twice is not a good sign of acting in pain... it was repetative

[susangail]

Yeah, thats pretty much how it goes. If he breaks or shows fear, then he's a wimp. If he broods about something, then he's emo. If he's stoic, then he's emotionless (and Tom is a bad actor, can't forget that gem :rolleyes:). If he's harsh and yells at someone, then he can't be Superman because Supes never gives up on anyone. If he's violent, then he's a thug. And so on, and so forth.

I basically agree with your implication, except it's not that simple. There's brooding, and then there's multi-episode (or even multi-season) *BROODING*. Clark has reached points over the years at which the drama has been stalled. That's poor writing.

FWIW, I love Clark's development this season. I can see a man now.

[maryjanewatson]

I agree totally with that cage and locked up part of yours! That's the reason I gave this ep only a 8 in the "loved it or hated it?" thread. Tom did this pain and fear stuff much better in other ep's, e.g. in "Extinction" S3, where he's shot with that kryptonite bullet. That scene was terrific, concerning his acting!!! Everytime I watched this scene so far, I always get chills and you believe every second, that Clark's in so much pain and that he's terrified.
I expected the same in "Traveler" as soon as I heard about that cage thing - but it was different and I didn't get chills.
And I don't want to talk again, about the different reactions to kryptonite all over the seasons, because I did it so many times in other threads. Only this one: With so much kryptonite around him, he must not have been able to stand up again and again, when on other times he could barely lift his arm. This is really so not logical!


I was actually just talking about that scene from extinction a couple of weeks ago on another thread. That is one of my favorite scenes in the whole series. That entire scene is so intense. the fear and pain not only in Clarks eyes was intense, but the fear and anxiety that his parents had too. omigosh, just so intense. Love that scene. incredible acting, for sure.

[xrayvision]

I loved the episode in every way except one, and that bugs me alot

I mean Lana's 'ill kill him if he hurts clark' thing was perfect, and said with this cold simplicity. Chloe's reasoning with Jor-el was heart felt. Lionel's stuttering attemtps at an explanation showed how frightened of loosing clark he is, and lex wiping the blood off patricia's necklace with this intregued look on his face was really chilling.

But Clark showed nothing.

Ever since he was tiny his parents drilled into him to keep his secret, because they were afraid someone would take him away and keep him locked up and study him. He has probably had hundreds of nightmares about a man like peirce. A sadistic man who would call him a freak and hurt him.

It happened! well not the studying part, but the torture and the calling him a freak and being locked up. Why wasn't he more terrified. It was just terrible acting. I felt no emotion from Clark the whole time he was in that cage. I wanted to see terror in his eyes, something actually dramatic.

Then when he was out, and he said 'i'll deal with lionel' i thought there might be hope of seeing this drama. The man he trusted even after everything he had done, just put him through the most horrible experiance of his life. I expect him to be so angry, to yell at him, to look at him in complete disgust.

Didn't get that either. He just looked a little annoyed, and kinda dissapointed. I would have spat in Lionel's face!

It just let the whole episode down for me.

I thought he did a much better job in Splinter when he was imagining it all. As a matter of fact, I was expecting this to be Splinter 2 (i.e. that one hallucination in Splinter becoming reality). It did become reality, but not in an exciting way.

[litew8]

I rather enjoyed that, personally. (Is it terrible that when he was lying there in pain I was sitting there thinking 'cute butt!"? :p)Yes. Yes, that is terrible. I cannot believe you injected that thought into this thread :p . I found it rather disturbing to have to watch. Way too much, oooOOO, I'm just laying here. Woe is me. I was thinking - Be a man! Get up you bum!

Me: He's hooking. He's hooking. He's hooking! Damn, Rock Clark, Come on! What's the matter with you?

Rocky Clark: Tomorrow. Let's do it tomorrow.

Me: [Screaming] There is no tomorrow! THERE IS NO TOMORROW! THERE IS NO TOMORROW!

Rocky Clark: I don't know what you want me to say. I mean, what happened? How did everything that was so good get so bad? I wrecked everything by not thinking for myself. I mean, why couldn't Mickey litew8 tell me where I really at right from the start? He didn't have to carry me and lie to me and make me think I was better than I really was when I wasn't.

Rocky Clark: It's really hard to say this. I feel like, well... I thinking maybe it's time that I should, uh, step down maybe and... retire.

Me: Get up you BUM!

[Radioflyer]

I loved the episode in every way except one, and that bugs me alot

I mean Lana's 'ill kill him if he hurts clark' thing was perfect, and said with this cold simplicity. Chloe's reasoning with Jor-el was heart felt. Lionel's stuttering attemtps at an explanation showed how frightened of loosing clark he is, and lex wiping the blood off patricia's necklace with this intregued look on his face was really chilling.

But Clark showed nothing.

Ever since he was tiny his parents drilled into him to keep his secret, because they were afraid someone would take him away and keep him locked up and study him. He has probably had hundreds of nightmares about a man like peirce. A sadistic man who would call him a freak and hurt him.

It happened! well not the studying part, but the torture and the calling him a freak and being locked up. Why wasn't he more terrified. It was just terrible acting. I felt no emotion from Clark the whole time he was in that cage. I wanted to see terror in his eyes, something actually dramatic.

Then when he was out, and he said 'i'll deal with lionel' i thought there might be hope of seeing this drama. The man he trusted even after everything he had done, just put him through the most horrible experiance of his life. I expect him to be so angry, to yell at him, to look at him in complete disgust.

Didn't get that either. He just looked a little annoyed, and kinda dissapointed. I would have spat in Lionel's face!

It just let the whole episode down for me.His restraint was most impressive. More like Superman than ever before. His turning his back on Lionel I think hurt him more than if Clark had slapped him around the room a bit.

[Mars Investigations]

His restraint was most impressive. More like Superman than ever before. His turning his back on Lionel I think hurt him more than if Clark had slapped him around the room a bit.

Exactly. He's showing that he's growing up and maturing - I would've actually been quite annoyed if he'd had a hissy fit at Lionel or in the cage. Not only would it have degraded the character, it would have sent him back several steps and snapped the audience away from the sense of suspense and mystery of the episode.

[Yasise]

Yet again we agree with each other! I like how he portrayed anger in the past. I guess we'll just keep bashing our heads against the wall collectively, wondering whether this change is from Tom, the writers, or what. :rotfl:

Yes and I'm glad that I'm not the only one. I'm relieved that I'm able to explain my thoughts about this "change" of Tom's acting and I don't think, it's the writers' or director's wish.
I am watching Smallville just because of Tom, so I might be a little overfocused on his acting *lol* .


This is Tom's show, he's not going to do anything to jeapardize it. I think you need to be blaming the directors and producers. Tom can do anything they ask of him in regards to his acting.

I'm not saying, that he jeopardize it, but I don't think, as I wrote above, it's the blame of the directors and producers.
Of course nobody has to agree with me, I'm only telling what I feel when watching Tom from the beginning of Season 7. I do miss this extra little something in his acting, in his eyes, in his voice etc. which I always adored in the other episodes till the end of season 6.
I'm not able to explain it better, because I'm not a native english speaker, so I might use the wrong words and it is difficult to explain anyway no matter which language.


I don't have offense to see him mature, but to me emotionless does not equal maturity. Either way, I never meant Tom wasn't a great actor.

Exactly :)

----- Added 12 Minutes later -----


Exactly. He's showing that he's growing up and maturing - I would've actually been quite annoyed if he'd had a hissy fit at Lionel or in the cage. Not only would it have degraded the character, it would have sent him back several steps and snapped the audience away from the sense of suspense and mystery of the episode.

So maturing is not showing his anger and frustration to Lionel?
I don't think so. Clark could have been more loud, he barely changed his voice while speaking to him.

I think, one reason, why everybody loves Superman is, that he is more human that other aliens and that also means, showing his feelings, at least sometimes.
And I'm sure, that scene in Lionel's office was one of that "sometimes".

And Lionel is no one, Clark has to keep a pokerface when talking to him. He knows him for so long now and they went through so much more or less together, there's no need in hiding his emotions. Clark could have been more angry in that scene, because he really had so much reason to shout at him.

[Hopefulsuicide]

So maturing is not showing his anger and frustration to Lionel?
I don't think so. Clark could have been more loud, he barely changed his voice while speaking to him.

I think, one reason, why everybody loves Superman is, that he is more human that other aliens and that also means, showing his feelings, at least sometimes.
And I'm sure, that scene in Lionel's office was one of that "sometimes".

And Lionel is no one, Clark has to keep a pokerface when talking to him. He knows him for so long now and they went through so much more or less together, there's no need in hiding his emotions. Clark could have been more angry in that scene, because he really had so much reason to shout at him.


definately... i mean even if it wasnt total anger... maybe just that authoratative way that Superman speaks in that 'you really shouldnt make me angry' voice that you sometimes here

but i guess it wasnt just the acting... none of his words were angry either... i mean some kind of warning like 'don't you ever come near me again' or something... something that showed how much Lionel hurt him

just saying that Lionel wasn't any different didn't show how angry or upset or betrayed he was...

----- Added 4 Minutes later -----


His restraint was most impressive. More like Superman than ever before. His turning his back on Lionel I think hurt him more than if Clark had slapped him around the room a bit.

IMHO you have to show anger on screen in some way in order to show that a character is acting with restraint.


examples:

1) if clark had a moment of emotion in the barn on his own or something... looked at the broken bits of wood and maybe even had flashbacks, smashed something in frustration

2) if clark had told Lana or Chloe how angry he was, broke his armour for one moment in order to show the veiwer that it is armour, and its not just lack of emotion

Clark has never had a problem showing his anger to Lex when he does something wrong. He's punched him for crying out loud... and when Lionel puts him in a kryptonite cage and leaves him with an crazy henchman bent on torturing and killing him, all Lionel gets is a simple 'no your not'

It's like favouritism

[Nerial]

We complain when Clark is mopey and depressed, and then we complain when he's not mopey and depressed. The poor writers just can't win!

I loved this episode. I loved Clark's fighting spirit, and the way he said, "Come out here and face me!" That gave me chills because it was so powerful even when he was in distress.

The scene where Pierce called him a freak, and then turned away, Clark closed his eyes, and the look on his face (besides pain) was, "What am I going to do now?" He was afraid.

The only scene where I wished he had shown a little more emotion was with Kara. I wished he would have hugged her or something, but eh--oh, well. It was still sweet.

He took everything so well, like he was spending his time trying to figure out how to escape (although he couldn't) instead of curling into a ball and sobbing in the corner. It was exactly what I would think Superman would do.

[Yasise]

We complain when Clark is mopey and depressed, and then we complain when he's not mopey and depressed. The poor writers just can't win!

I loved this episode. I loved Clark's fighting spirit, and the way he said, "Come out here and face me!" That gave me chills because it was so powerful even when he was in distress.

The scene where Pierce called him a freak, and then turned away, Clark closed his eyes, and the look on his face (besides pain) was, "What am I going to do now?" He was afraid.

The only scene where I wished he had shown a little more emotion was with Kara. I wished he would have hugged her or something, but eh--oh, well. It was still sweet.

He took everything so well, like he was spending his time trying to figure out how to escape (although he couldn't) instead of curling into a ball and sobbing in the corner. It was exactly what I would think Superman would do.

Well, that's the way it goes, I guess. Yes, the writers have a tough job and it's definetly not possible to please every viewer of Smallville out there.

But still, everybody has the right to comment on their work, be it the actors' work or the writers' etc. And as long as we do it in a civilized way - like I believe we do - there's nothing bad in it, is it?

And again, I've to agree with what hopefulsuicide said above - this episode, which I think was one of the better episodes this season, could have been much better, IMO, when some scenes would have had more emotions.

Let me mention this barn scene with the two cousins and not the Lionel/Clark scene again:

Of course there should have been MORE emotions!!!

"Hellooo, Kara just saved your life, Clark!" And he stands there and talks to her from that distance, not coming over to her, not hugging her warmly etc., at least when saying his "You saved my life, thank you"......... That was so not o.k., sorry!
And why throwing that bracelet to her, why not coming down and putting it himself onto her wrist first and then hug her??? That would have been sooo sweet! *sigh*

Doesn't he hug all his friends from time to time - oh sorry, he didn't hug Pete in "Hero" either (and I think, he should have done as he met him after so many years again), but he didn't once hug his cousin, did he? At least, I don't remember at the moment, but in that barn scene, she definetly deserved a warm and tenderly hug from Clark, hands down!

I mean, they're cousins, she is his only relative and I think, she's not hat stranger to him anymore, like in the beginning, they've seen each other for the first time again , after her leaving to Lex's mansion (I don't count the rescue scene) oh, and she just saved his life.....do I've to go on?

When I watched that scene I really was so not touched and that has nothing to do with the fact, that I for myself don't like Kara (neither the character, nor the actress - sorry).
This scene could have been so much better, warmer and more believable, but instead it was a total loss, IMO.
I really expected so much more emotions and actually there's no reason for not showing more there, was it?

[Hopefulsuicide]

i also am not a big kara fan, but your right, that scene felt the same as a lot of scenes in this episode - emotionless

oddly enough, i thought kristen showed more emotion that anyone but JG in this episode, and i usually am the first to slate her acting. but from the moment you see her, she is almost teary eyed with fear, which goes away when it's replaced by cold determination

was a nice change for me to like her... although i was dissapointed we didnt get a Lana Lionel confrontation... that would have been awesome

but Kara was emotionless too... she just got her life back! she just saved her cousin from nearly being killed! and it was like she just got back from camp

[Yasise]

i also am not a big kara fan, but your right, that scene felt the same as a lot of scenes in this episode - emotionless

oddly enough, i thought kristen showed more emotion that anyone but JG in this episode, and i usually am the first to slate her acting. but from the moment you see her, she is almost teary eyed with fear, which goes away when it's replaced by cold determination

was a nice change for me to like her... although i was dissapointed we didnt get a Lana Lionel confrontation... that would have been awesome

but Kara was emotionless too... she just got her life back! she just saved her cousin from nearly being killed! and it was like she just got back from camp

:lol: yeah, Kara is "Miss Emotionless" for sure, but maybe she's to act like that :confused: At least she's a kryptonian and not raised by humans??? Well, I really am trying hard to find an explanation, aren't I? ;)

I expected more emotions from Clark in that scene at least, but....well, don't want to repeat myself again and again.

[Hopefulsuicide]

haha i know, i'm so dissapointed that i can't stop going on about it lol... someone give me a good arguement, then i wont feel like im just going in circlies

funny thing is, i think the episode was in my top three of the season... i dont hate it... but it had the opportunity to be my favourite episode of Smalville ever... and it failed

[RichardMarx]

Ever since he was tiny his parents drilled into him to keep his secret, because they were afraid someone would take him away and keep him locked up and study him. He has probably had hundreds of nightmares about a man like peirce. A sadistic man who would call him a freak and hurt him.


I though his worst nightmare was outliving all the people he loved and being left all alone on Earth.

[Yasise]

haha i know, i'm so dissapointed that i can't stop going on about it lol... someone give me a good arguement, then i wont feel like im just going in circlies

funny thing is, i think the episode was in my top three of the season... i dont hate it... but it had the opportunity to be my favourite episode of Smalville ever... and it failed

Let's go together in circles then, because I'm totally with you :)

So, which ones are the top three of this season for you? I'd like to know, because so far, there are only three ep's this season for me as well, which I loved.

[TheLeague]

i suppose it was a good thing in a way possibly because hes standing up to his worst fear and acting more like superman would against a threat... take it head on! i quote from Clark in the cage saying "COME OUT HERE AND FACE ME!"

see he is getting there sort of least he did'nt give up on his hope!

btw the way he fought against the kryptonite in the episode i thought was EXCELLENT! :D

[Imzadia]

I know I should just stop myself from responding to Clark bashing threads, but...

Personally, I loved that Clark was able to maintain his strength and composure, even while being tortured, and even while facing his worst fear. TW played him, brilliantly might I add, with a quiet calm and dignity. He wasn't going to let this sadistic animal see him cry, or grovel, or break. He remained as stong as he could be. He dared this person to come face him. He stayed on his feet as long as he could. I loved the scenes of him struggling to get back up on his feet. I found it very meaningful. He's facing his biggest fear standing up, and he's going to keep trying until he physically can't anymore.

Seems to me that some people are always complaining that Clark is too emo, or whatever this weeks criticism is. But when Clark shows fortitude, and courage and strength of character, then he's not showing enough emotion? Talk about never being able to win :\

As for the confrontation with Lionel, I couldn't have been more pleased with that. We've seen Clark fly off the handle before, and its not pretty, but he's grown up. He walks in confidently, he asks the right questions. You can see he's angry, he's hurt, he's disappointed, he's betrayed. But most of all, he's calm. Just as the he'll need to be in the future when he's Superman. IMO, it was so much more effective then if he had flown off the handle, or yelled and screamed. This was a mature, composed Clark who handled a horrific ordeal with dignity and strength.

I thought he was amazing. JMHO

:eek:WOW!:cool:Well said, BadToad! I'm clapping and cheering for ALL that you pointed out about TW's performance and interpretation of who Clark is supposed to be now. I felt so completely satisfied by the way Clark presented himself before his 'torturor' and Lionel. Everytime his 'torturor' kicked up the voltage in his cage and knocked him flat, you're right, he Always made a valiant attempt to stand up to him again, and though he was physically weakened, his physical presence was evident in his powerfully pumped-up arms clearly visible at every attempt. I was so proud of him!:D So Yeah, what you said...Me, too. I wish I had those fancy 'smilies' with the Cheers/mugs of beer to salute TW as Clark Kent in "Traveler". :D

[Hopefulsuicide]

guess it's just a matter of taste

i personally only see bravery where i have seen major fear. they get hurt, they break, then they get back up again, and thats where you see their strength

i guess it was brave to not be scared... but unreaslitic... superman is human, so is clark, especially this young

----- Added 6 Minutes later -----


Let's go together in circles then, because I'm totally with you :)

So, which ones are the top three of this season for you? I'd like to know, because so far, there are only three ep's this season for me as well, which I loved.

hmmmm... i'm not entirely sure lol... i said top three just incase, but i cant really remember the other episodes

i'm gonna stab a pin in traveler, persona, cure... or maybe fracture

hmm its a toughie

----- Added 7 Minutes later -----


I though his worst nightmare was outliving all the people he loved and being left all alone on Earth.

well yeah that's one of them. but since he has been afraid of being held captive by the gorvernment since he was a toddler, and only found out that he might outlive all his loved ones when he was 15, i'd say the former is his biggest nightmare

[Este]

guess it's just a matter of taste

i personally only see bravery where i have seen major fear. they get hurt, they break, then they get back up again, and thats where you see their strength

i guess it was brave to not be scared... but unreaslitic... superman is human, so is clark, especially this young




I think that several 'cage' parts weren't Tom's best acting. Maybe it was difficult for him, I don't know. I didn't want Clark to completely break down and sob in terror and pain, or plead or beg or anything. But, yes, I would have liked to see more close up scenes and actually see more emotion. Then I watched the episode again and Clark's constant attempts to just get up struck me as fear. Not terror, but mind-numbing fear nonetheless. Instead of trying to keep the little strength he had left, he just wanted to get away, able or not, almost as a terrified animal, incapable of reasoning. That's the way I saw it, at least. As you say, it is a matter of taste. And I don't think Lionel would have been able to bear to see Clark break down in that cell. Even as it is, it seems to me that Lionel managed to hurt himself more than the almost fatal levels of Kryptonite harmed Clark.

[Yasise]

I think that several 'cage' parts weren't Tom's best acting. Maybe it was difficult for him, I don't know. I didn't want Clark to completely break down and sob in terror and pain, or plead or beg or anything. But, yes, I would have liked to see more close up scenes and actually see more emotion................

No, of course not - that would have been too much.

Yeah, me, too.

Did anyone recognize that they used the same shot twice? I mean in that cage, when this psycho turns up th elevel and Clark turns over on his back and lifts up his hips?? I'm sure that shot was used twice and it surprised me. But I might be wrong and the two shots are only similar :confused:

[WathorigHH]

I've been following this thread for a while now and couldn't be silent any more. I don't know why everyone is complaining about Clark not showing enough fear when he was trapped in the cage or about him being too calm when confronting Lionel. I know it's all in the eye of the viewers but I actually did see all the things some of you obviously haven't.

I personally thought Tom did a geat job with portraying Clark in Traveler. Most of the time Clark had to endure much pain. There was not much space to show any more empotions but he did. He was afraid and I could clearly see it. When Clark awoke in the cage he didn't know where he was, so he was looking around, trying to figure out where he was. If he would have shown fear that moment people would have complained he's a wimp. Later when Pierce had started the torture by amping up the radiation of the K-lined cage Clark was afraid because he didn't know what was happening and if he'll ever get out of there. There were some nice shots of Clark looking in the surveillance cameras where his fear and despair were palpable. I'm also with BadToad Clark didn't give up, he tried to maintain his dignity when facing Pierce and also after Pierce hid in the control room again. Clark didn't give up to get back on his feet.

You could clearly see that he already was weakened by the prolonged exposure of the Kryptonite when Pierce was at the cage. Clark was slightly swaying, he had trouble standing on his feet but he wanted to show he's strong. But because Clark didn't know who he was dealing with and what Pierce is gonna do with him he kept his distance despite there was no need because of the glass between them.

In my opinion Clark has two worst nightmares. The first one is to get caught by the government or Lex (for 33.1) and being experimented on and the second one is to be completely alone and that he might be the reason for everyone being gone.

Finally I loved the confrontation scene between Lionel and Clark. It was a strong performance of Tom. Clark was angry with Lionel, no doubt about that, but he was also disappointed by his betrayal. It was controlled anger. It hurt Lionel more that CLark wasn't shouting at him. Clark's eyes spoke volumes. Further Clark hit Lionel twice during the conversation. First when he shouted (yes, he shouted) at him "You're not my father" and the second time when he finally said quite calmly "No, you're not". It was the way Clark said it that gave me chills. It must have been like a stab in Lionels heart, he lost CLark's trust. I thought Clark had all the time the upper hand without shouting or being loud. Being loud wouldn't have been Clark. To me people who get loud during conversations or arguments are desperate and can't really underline their opinions. I think if Clark would have shouted his anger it would be too much over the top.

That's why I thought Tom did a perfect job.

The only thing I agree is that Clark didn't thank Kara enough just after she saved him. I think that was bad writing or maybe they had a scene like that and it got lost in the cutting room.

Yasise, I agree with you, when I saw the scene the second time that was exactly my thought, they used it twice. But I alsoi can remember that someone said in the thread it was Tom's bad acting to do it twice. Well, as a great Tom fan I'm probably biased. I liked his performance. And don't forget it's a TV show and not a movie like Superman I - III, or SM returns. There's a much more limited time table for shooting a TV show.

[Hopefulsuicide]

I think that several 'cage' parts weren't Tom's best acting. Maybe it was difficult for him, I don't know. I didn't want Clark to completely break down and sob in terror and pain, or plead or beg or anything. But, yes, I would have liked to see more close up scenes and actually see more emotion. Then I watched the episode again and Clark's constant attempts to just get up struck me as fear. Not terror, but mind-numbing fear nonetheless. Instead of trying to keep the little strength he had left, he just wanted to get away, able or not, almost as a terrified animal, incapable of reasoning. That's the way I saw it, at least. As you say, it is a matter of taste. And I don't think Lionel would have been able to bear to see Clark break down in that cell. Even as it is, it seems to me that Lionel managed to hurt himself more than the almost fatal levels of Kryptonite harmed Clark.

i do agree with you here. script wise, him getting up was a sign of his need to see what was going on because he was scared. thats fine at first. but not all the way through... that whole scene where peirce calls him a freak would have been so much more effective if he'd been say sitting with his arms wrapped round his knees in a defensive position, or even if he had to be standing up, do something to seem a little defensive

----- Added 40 Seconds later -----


No, of course not - that would have been too much.

Yeah, me, too.

Did anyone recognize that they used the same shot twice? I mean in that cage, when this psycho turns up th elevel and Clark turns over on his back and lifts up his hips?? I'm sure that shot was used twice and it surprised me. But I might be wrong and the two shots are only similar :confused:

i think it was genuinely just bad acting... Tom used the same pain reaction (falling and arching his back) twice... dissapointed me

----- Added 8 Minutes later -----


I've been following this thread for a while now and couldn't be silent any more. I don't know why everyone is complaining about Clark not showing enough fear when he was trapped in the cage or about him being too calm when confronting Lionel. I know it's all in the eye of the viewers but I actually did see all the things some of you obviously haven't.

I personally thought Tom did a geat job with portraying Clark in Traveler. Most of the time Clark had to endure much pain. There was not much space to show any more empotions but he did. He was afraid and I could clearly see it. When Clark awoke in the cage he didn't know where he was, so he was looking around, trying to figure out where he was. If he would have shown fear that moment people would have complained he's a wimp. Later when Pierce had started the torture by amping up the radiation of the K-lined cage Clark was afraid because he didn't know what was happening and if he'll ever get out of there. There were some nice shots of Clark looking in the surveillance cameras where his fear and despair were palpable. I'm also with BadToad Clark didn't give up, he tried to maintain his dignity when facing Pierce and also after Pierce hid in the control room again. Clark didn't give up to get back on his feet.

You could clearly see that he already was weakened by the prolonged exposure of the Kryptonite when Pierce was at the cage. Clark was slightly swaying, he had trouble standing on his feet but he wanted to show he's strong. But because Clark didn't know who he was dealing with and what Pierce is gonna do with him he kept his distance despite there was no need because of the glass between them.

In my opinion Clark has two worst nightmares. The first one is to get caught by the government or Lex (for 33.1) and being experimented on and the second one is to be completely alone and that he might be the reason for everyone being gone.

Finally I loved the confrontation scene between Lionel and Clark. It was a strong performance of Tom. Clark was angry with Lionel, no doubt about that, but he was also disappointed by his betrayal. It was controlled anger. It hurt Lionel more that CLark wasn't shouting at him. Clark's eyes spoke volumes. Further Clark hit Lionel twice during the conversation. First when he shouted (yes, he shouted) at him "You're not my father" and the second time when he finally said quite calmly "No, you're not". It was the way Clark said it that gave me chills. It must have been like a stab in Lionels heart, he lost CLark's trust. I thought Clark had all the time the upper hand without shouting or being loud. Being loud wouldn't have been Clark. To me people who get loud during conversations or arguments are desperate and can't really underline their opinions. I think if Clark would have shouted his anger it would be too much over the top.

That's why I thought Tom did a perfect job.

The only thing I agree is that Clark didn't thank Kara enough just after she saved him. I think that was bad writing or maybe they had a scene like that and it got lost in the cutting room.

Yasise, I agree with you, when I saw the scene the second time that was exactly my thought, they used it twice. But I alsoi can remember that someone said in the thread it was Tom's bad acting to do it twice. Well, as a great Tom fan I'm probably biased. I liked his performance. And don't forget it's a TV show and not a movie like Superman I - III, or SM returns. There's a much more limited time table for shooting a TV show.

i don't think Tom is a bad actor, that's why i was so dissapointed. he's done some really good performances as Clark.

the more i post on here the more i think that Roswell just set the standard so high... when Max was caught by the government, he paced back and forth, his breathing was heavy, there were tears of fear in his eyes. the camera work showed the room spinning, he was so scared. he sat down in the corner of his padded white room and held himself. when he was questioned by peirce, he kept his cool, just acted like a student from Roswell High who didnt know what was going on, and as more and more was revealed and the more experiments they put him through, you could see him slowly giving up. and he came out of that.

then when he confronted peirce after, when peirce had been captured by them, he showed his hatred by repeating the same threats he had been subjected to with a clear bitterness in his voice... he didnt have to yell, but you could feel the anger and disgust.

when i first heard about this episode, and that Lionel was going to hold Clark in a kryptonite cage i saw a hundred fanfictions coming true

i guess i just have to adjust to the fact that this wasn't his worst fear come true, this was just a few hours of kryptonite torture...

[Yasise]

.....................i think it was genuinely just bad acting... Tom used the same pain reaction (falling and arching his back) twice... dissapointed me
...

Sorry, but I've to disagree here. I don't think, that Tom did the same movement twice, it WAS the same shot! They obviuosly used it twice, for whatever reason it may be.
I agreed with a lot you've said, but this is just not true. Please watch it again, it is really the same shot - not Tom doing the same all over again.
I guess it's an editing mistake or whatever.

----- Added 18 Minutes later -----


.............Yasise, I agree with you, when I saw the scene the second time that was exactly my thought, they used it twice. But I alsoi can remember that someone said in the thread it was Tom's bad acting to do it twice. Well, as a great Tom fan I'm probably biased. I liked his performance. And don't forget it's a TV show and not a movie like Superman I - III, or SM returns. There's a much more limited time table for shooting a TV show.

First, even if I'm repeating myself, I'm watching Smallville only because of Tom and because I like the Superman story, so I'm as biased as you are :) IMO, Tom is the most ideal choice for the Superman / Clark Kent character ever!
I love Tom's acting sooo much and because of that, I think, that it could have been a little better than it was. He surely could have done it. I explained this before, so I won't repeat myself here again.
So far, season 7 is not one of my favourite seasons, but there are three episodes, which I loved and those were "Bizarro", "Persona" and now "Traveler".

And yes, you're right, it is a TV Show with limited time and budget, but to be in the 7th season speaks for itself, I guess.
It is a wonderful show and I love it very much. But still....different people have different taste. Some loved it this way, others wished there would have been more emotions.
Well, it's impossible to please everybody 100%, isn't it?

[Hopefulsuicide]

Sorry, but I've to disagree here. I don't think, that Tom did the same movement twice, it WAS the same shot! They obviuosly used it twice, for whatever reason it may be.
I agreed with a lot you've said, but this is just not true. Please watch it again, it is really the same shot - not Tom doing the same all over again.
I guess it's an editing mistake or whatever.



put your weapon down i surrender :p

:rotfl:

nah your prob right, i wasnt paying that much attention... though i am fighting the urge to re watch it just to make sure LOL

[WathorigHH]

when i first heard about this episode, and that Lionel was going to hold Clark in a kryptonite cage i saw a hundred fanfictions coming true


I know what you mean because I'm an avid reader of these TC-fanfictions. My expectations were high too. I think it would have been better when they would have stretched the imprisonment over two episodes and would have concentrated more on Clark. In Traveler Clark had barely his screen time.

[Hopefulsuicide]

LOL true... i did notice this. he had very few lines to work with, and very little screen time.

i'm also an avid reader of TC... i don't think anyone would have complained if Clark acted like he was scared and going through mental trauma as well as physical... i just cant see anyone coming up with a good arguement as to why this makes him less superman

[BadToad]

i'm also an avid reader of TC... i don't think anyone would have complained if Clark acted like he was scared and going through mental trauma as well as physical... i just cant see anyone coming up with a good arguement as to why this makes him less superman

How about because we FLAT OUT don't agree with your assessement? I did see fear...you didn't. So, who is right or wrong? Neither. You have your opinion and I have mine. You can post over and over again how disappointed you were, but for those of us who were NOT the least bit disappointed in how Clark conducted himself, it still isn't going to become true for us.

For me, Clark showing strength made him more Superman. For me, Clark not showing weakness to this sadistic animal made him more Superman. For me, Clark trying to face this ordeal on his feet as much as he was physically able makes him more Superman.

I don't need Clark weeping and rocking himself in the corner (for which he would've been savaged on this board for doing) to understand that he was afraid. But instead of giving into that fear, he tried to stay strong and resilient.

And I thought Tom did it all brilliantly. If he had more screentime, then maybe there would've been more time to carry out the details of the imprisonment and torture, but not only wasn't there time, I suspect that TPTB may have felt that was a bit much for the viewers. SV isn't a TC fanfic, after all.

Honestly, what arguement is it that you think is going to sway you? You've made up your mind, and thats fine. But the fact of the matter is that there are those of us you just didn't view the episode, and the Clark scenes, the same way. I've read many reviews of this episode where people have talked about Clark's strength, and his ability to maintain his dignity, and finding that admirable. You thought he sucked. Different strokes for different folks.

All I can say is that I like the idea of MY Superman acting the way Clark did when imprisoned and tortured. It worked for me. YMMV

[Thrill_Seeker]

actually, he didnt really have any time to look scared.
he was being tortured the whole time. I think clark looked perfectly scared to me.
and your pretty dumb if you think that, that was a walk in the park.
that would have been the most painful and strongest amounts of time clark has been exposed to green k.
and especially for that long.

[Hopefulsuicide]

How about because we FLAT OUT don't agree with your assessement? I did see fear...you didn't. So, who is right or wrong? Neither. You have your opinion and I have mine. You can post over and over again how disappointed you were, but for those of us who were NOT the least bit disappointed in how Clark conducted himself, it still isn't going to become true for us.

For me, Clark showing strength made him more Superman. For me, Clark not showing weakness to this sadistic animal made him more Superman. For me, Clark trying to face this ordeal on his feet as much as he was physically able makes him more Superman.

I don't need Clark weeping and rocking himself in the corner (for which he would've been savaged on this board for doing) to understand that he was afraid. But instead of giving into that fear, he tried to stay strong and resilient.

And I thought Tom did it all brilliantly. If he had more screentime, then maybe there would've been more time to carry out the details of the imprisonment and torture, but not only wasn't there time, I suspect that TPTB may have felt that was a bit much for the viewers. SV isn't a TC fanfic, after all.

Honestly, what arguement is it that you think is going to sway you? You've made up your mind, and thats fine. But the fact of the matter is that there are those of us you just didn't view the episode, and the Clark scenes, the same way. I've read many reviews of this episode where people have talked about Clark's strength, and his ability to maintain his dignity, and finding that admirable. You thought he sucked. Different strokes for different folks.

All I can say is that I like the idea of MY Superman acting the way Clark did when imprisoned and tortured. It worked for me. YMMV

you seem to be reacting as though i implied that i couldnt underdstand your opinion. in actual fact what i said was that i didnt believe anyone would have considered him less of a hero for showing fear. i completely respect that this episode is a matter of opinion, as you would have noticed if you had read my previous posts.

i am not trying to sway anyone. i'm just posting my opinion, and we are continuing to debate the topic.

i dont think he should have been weeping or rocking in a corner either LOL (although i'd fight anyone who said he was less superman if he did), i'm just used to a different standard of acting in scenes of this nature, having watched alot of shows were people are saught after or captured by organisations (roswell high, lois and clark, heroes, alias, x-files etc).

p.s. what does YMMV stand for LOL

----- Added 3 Minutes later -----


actually, he didnt really have any time to look scared.
he was being tortured the whole time. I think clark looked perfectly scared to me.
and your pretty dumb if you think that, that was a walk in the park.
that would have been the most painful and strongest amounts of time clark has been exposed to green k.
and especially for that long.

please dont call me dumb because i dont share your opinion

it's rude

the name of my thread is in reference to the way he reacted straight after being held in that cage... he didnt seem shaken to me when he thanked Kara, didnt seem shaken when he was talking to patricia... and i didnt find his emotion came across when taking to Lionel... therefore i felt the whole incident was treated like it was nothing

yet againt i find myself having to say, that i have said nothing about the lack of physical pain. yes it would be the worst kryptonite enduced pain he had had ever. i think it should have been a more traumatic experiance phsychologically for Clark to live out his worst nightmare

[BadToad]

p.s. what does YMMV stand for LOL

Your Mileage May Vary

[Hopefulsuicide]

okay cheers :p

[Este]

But, as I said in other threads before, it seems lately, that he doesn't put so much emotions into Clark anymore, since season 7 began. Maybe lack of enthusiasm for Smallville after so many years...???:

Me too, I watch Smallville because of Tom Welling, mostly. Even when the show have sinned by a general lack of heart, or awkward dialogue, or action for action, without any real interest for their characters, I always enjoyed Tom's acting. I kind of aligned myself with him and his Clark rarely failed to move me. But this season, I feel that something has changed. I'm willing to attribute the awkward scenes to bad writing, clumsy directing, anything but Tom. But... oh, I just hope that we are wrong and that he snaps out of whatever it is.



Did anyone recognize that they used the same shot twice? I mean in that cage, when this psycho turns up th elevel and Clark turns over on his back and lifts up his hips?? I'm sure that shot was used twice and it surprised me. But I might be wrong and the two shots are only similar :confused:

Yes! I couldn't believe my eyes. That's not bad acting, even though I don't find the depiction of pain in that particular shot convincing. It's bad editing.
Strange, Smallville usually has high quality standards. Maybe the strike somehow affected the whole crew?

[Thrill_Seeker]

please dont call me dumb because i dont share your opinion

it's rude

the name of my thread is in reference to the way he reacted straight after being held in that cage... he didnt seem shaken to me when he thanked Kara, didnt seem shaken when he was talking to patricia... and i didnt find his emotion came across when taking to Lionel... therefore i felt the whole incident was treated like it was nothing

yet againt i find myself having to say, that i have said nothing about the lack of physical pain. yes it would be the worst kryptonite enduced pain he had had ever. i think it should have been a more traumatic experiance phsychologically for Clark to live out his worst nightmare

no meaning to offend, i was just meaning that i really think clark was absolutely terrified, he just didnt show it. somone said it before. it would be a little lame if he was stuttering and shaking or whatever it is that makes him look scared.
he was tryin to be brave. and i mean, he really was being tortured the whole time.
i guess he could of seen a little more traumatised after the cage, and a bit more "edgy"
but it didnt make a difference to me

[Yasise]

put your weapon down i surrender :p

:rotfl:

nah your prob right, i wasnt paying that much attention... though i am fighting the urge to re watch it just to make sure LOL

To put my weapon down, I've to find it first.... ;)


I know what you mean because I'm an avid reader of these TC-fanfictions. My expectations were high too. I think it would have been better when they would have stretched the imprisonment over two episodes and would have concentrated more on Clark. In Traveler Clark had barely his screen time.

Yeah, "Traveler" strechted over two episodes, would have been great!! Sometimes they are rushing the story so much, you really have to rewatch it in order to get all the information and all the emotions. Not that I mind rewatching it...*lol*


...................the name of my thread is in reference to the way he reacted straight after being held in that cage... he didnt seem shaken to me when he thanked Kara, didnt seem shaken when he was talking to patricia... and i didnt find his emotion came across when taking to Lionel... therefore i felt the whole incident was treated like it was nothing

yet againt i find myself having to say, that i have said nothing about the lack of physical pain. yes it would be the worst kryptonite enduced pain he had had ever. i think it should have been a more traumatic experiance phsychologically for Clark to live out his worst nightmare

I agree, again, especially after having watched it for the x-time now. Soooo much kryptonite for so long around Clark must have had more effect on him, even after Kara saved him. He shouldn't been able to get up right after the cage was gone. You can call me pedantic, but that's how I think about it. The other times a little rock makes him unable to even lift his arm, and in a kryptonite cage he is able to get up on his feet again and again...?
Sorry, but that's inconsistency concerning that kryptonite stuff in Smallville. That's nothing new to us, but I'm always hoping that they will fix it someday.

And the talk with Lionel in his office...?? As I watched it for the first time, I thought it was good. But the second time I thought, in fact only Lionel was good and believable but Clark was too calm. I don't mean, he should have shouted at Lionel right from the beginning, but Clark's first sentences were just too...calm. O.k. he was controlling his anger and so on, but, I liked to see at least more of that look in his face, he had in "Hero", when he said to Lionel "We have to talk!" WOW!!!

That was the expression and the voice I missed in that scene of "Traveler". Tom totally nailed it in that one sentence in "Hero" but I didn't feel the same in that Clark/Lionel confrontation in the office, hands down.

He was too calm and there was no reason for him to be soooo "controlled", as he just lived through one of his worst nightmares. Even Superman shows his anger and that makes him not a less Superman. Showing his emotions makes Superman the hero we love.


Me too, I watch Smallville because of Tom Welling, mostly. Even when the show have sinned by a general lack of heart, or awkward dialogue, or action for action, without any real interest for their characters, I always enjoyed Tom's acting. I kind of aligned myself with him and his Clark rarely failed to move me. But this season, I feel that something has changed. I'm willing to attribute the awkward scenes to bad writing, clumsy directing, anything but Tom. But... oh, I just hope that we are wrong and that he snaps out of whatever it is.

Yes! I couldn't believe my eyes. That's not bad acting, even though I don't find the depiction of pain in that particular shot convincing. It's bad editing.
Strange, Smallville usually has high quality standards. Maybe the strike somehow affected the whole crew?

Yes, I hope so, too!

And to the editing "mistake": well, I don't have an explanation for it, I was as surprised as you were. I'm sure that never happened before and it was maybe due to the strike.


no meaning to offend, i was just meaning that i really think clark was absolutely terrified, he just didnt show it. somone said it before. it would be a little lame if he was stuttering and shaking or whatever it is that makes him look scared.
he was tryin to be brave. and i mean, he really was being tortured the whole time.
i guess he could of seen a little more traumatised after the cage, and a bit more "edgy" but it didnt make a difference to me

Yes, that's my point: He should have been "a little more traumatised after the cage, and a bit more "edgy", that would have been more believable. But as soon as he was out of the cage, it was like he was back from school, as if nothing as bad as this has happend at all. This is just weird!

[GuardianAngel]

Not like a walk in a park, but the whole effect of the Kryptonite cage could have been handled better.

For those of you who watched "Lois & Clark" you may remember that at the end of the first season Lex Luthor managed to trap Superman in a Kryptonite cage and when Supes managed to get out he was way too weak to do anything.

[jimmyolsenblues]

i wish they spent more time on clark in the cage and his fears.
it could have been better.
But loosing Patricia Swan was terrible, such a great character she could have been.

[Yasise]

Not like a walk in a park, but the whole effect of the Kryptonite cage could have been handled better.

For those of you who watched "Lois & Clark" you may remember that at the end of the first season Lex Luthor managed to trap Superman in a Kryptonite cage and when Supes managed to get out he was way too weak to do anything.

Yes, I agree and I remember. He couldn't fly, because of the effects of the kryptonite, could he? In that show the effects lasted longer, temporarily Superman lost his powers, whenever he's been exposed to kryptonite.
But in Smallville that was different from the beginning. In most of the time, as soon as the kryptonite was gone, Clark was totally o.k. again. I think it was a little different in "Krypto" when he was pulled out of that van by Shelby. There, Clark had to take a little breather before he could turn towards the guys.
I think it should have been always like that, at least!

When you see, what kryptonite does to his blood in "Phoenix" (the scene, where Jonathan holds Clark's blood sample near to that kryptonite rock in order to check out if it's Clark's blood or not and it starts to boil like water), then it would be only "normal" if Clark couldn't give 100% right after being exposed to kryptonite. Even he had to give his blood time to calm down again and that could be a minute or two at least. Would make the hole k-stuff more believable, IMO.

But, as I said before in my post above, that's the inconsistency with kryptonite in Smallville. I think it could have been handled better in all seasons.
Sorry, for repeating myself again :)

[GuardianAngel]

I agree, but then again, the effects of extended exposure to Kryptonite were handled better in "Nemesis" than in "Traveler".

[Yasise]

I agree, but then again, the effects of extended esposure to Kryptonite were handled better in "Nemesis" than in "Traveler".

Yes, you're right, I shouldn't have said "in all seasons". In some rare occasions, they did a great job with that kryptonite-stuff!

"Nemesis" is one of my all time favourites". I love it and one reason is actually that this kryptonite topic was handled sooo well in that episode. Awsome acting of both, Tom and Michael - really super :D !!!

I wish, I could have said the same about "Traveler", but "Nemesis" was soooo much better!

[WickedJenn]

I've been following this thread for a while now and couldn't be silent any more. I don't know why everyone is complaining about Clark not showing enough fear when he was trapped in the cage or about him being too calm when confronting Lionel. I know it's all in the eye of the viewers but I actually did see all the things some of you obviously haven't.

I personally thought Tom did a geat job with portraying Clark in Traveler. Most of the time Clark had to endure much pain. There was not much space to show any more empotions but he did. He was afraid and I could clearly see it. When Clark awoke in the cage he didn't know where he was, so he was looking around, trying to figure out where he was. If he would have shown fear that moment people would have complained he's a wimp. Later when Pierce had started the torture by amping up the radiation of the K-lined cage Clark was afraid because he didn't know what was happening and if he'll ever get out of there. There were some nice shots of Clark looking in the surveillance cameras where his fear and despair were palpable. I'm also with BadToad Clark didn't give up, he tried to maintain his dignity when facing Pierce and also after Pierce hid in the control room again. Clark didn't give up to get back on his feet.

You could clearly see that he already was weakened by the prolonged exposure of the Kryptonite when Pierce was at the cage. Clark was slightly swaying, he had trouble standing on his feet but he wanted to show he's strong. But because Clark didn't know who he was dealing with and what Pierce is gonna do with him he kept his distance despite there was no need because of the glass between them.

In my opinion Clark has two worst nightmares. The first one is to get caught by the government or Lex (for 33.1) and being experimented on and the second one is to be completely alone and that he might be the reason for everyone being gone.

Finally I loved the confrontation scene between Lionel and Clark. It was a strong performance of Tom. Clark was angry with Lionel, no doubt about that, but he was also disappointed by his betrayal. It was controlled anger. It hurt Lionel more that CLark wasn't shouting at him. Clark's eyes spoke volumes. Further Clark hit Lionel twice during the conversation. First when he shouted (yes, he shouted) at him "You're not my father" and the second time when he finally said quite calmly "No, you're not". It was the way Clark said it that gave me chills. It must have been like a stab in Lionels heart, he lost CLark's trust. I thought Clark had all the time the upper hand without shouting or being loud. Being loud wouldn't have been Clark. To me people who get loud during conversations or arguments are desperate and can't really underline their opinions. I think if Clark would have shouted his anger it would be too much over the top.

That's why I thought Tom did a perfect job.

The only thing I agree is that Clark didn't thank Kara enough just after she saved him. I think that was bad writing or maybe they had a scene like that and it got lost in the cutting room.

Yasise, I agree with you, when I saw the scene the second time that was exactly my thought, they used it twice. But I alsoi can remember that someone said in the thread it was Tom's bad acting to do it twice. Well, as a great Tom fan I'm probably biased. I liked his performance. And don't forget it's a TV show and not a movie like Superman I - III, or SM returns. There's a much more limited time table for shooting a TV show.

Very well said.

And how about Clark's line while in the cage..."Come out and face me!" It demonstrated that even though Clark was in the worst place possible, he still had the strength to want to face down whoever was doing that to him, even in such a physically weakened state.
I was proud of him when he said that, the more moments I see like that, the happier I get. Slowly but surely he's becoming more "Superman-esque". Not saying he doesn't still have a long way to go, but any little bit is progress.

Had this happened to him when he was in high school, especially the early years, he would've reacted a lot different. Over the years he's gotten much stronger mentally (as well as physically), and has much better control on his abilities. He's not perfect, no, but I like seeing the "not going to let it get me" side of him so much more.

[All about Clark]

I dont think he should have been weeping or rocking in a corner either LOL (although i'd fight anyone who said he was less superman if he did), i'm just used to a different standard of acting in scenes of this nature, having watched alot of shows were people are saught after or captured by organisations (roswell high, lois and clark, heroes, alias, x-files etc).


the name of my thread is in reference to the way he reacted straight after being held in that cage... he didnt seem shaken to me when he thanked Kara, didnt seem shaken when he was talking to patricia... and i didnt find his emotion came across when taking to Lionel... therefore i felt the whole incident was treated like it was nothing

Actually, I don't remember Superman being in Alias, X-files, or Heroes. I don't think you can compare a reaction from human to be the same as a kryptonian. You are not allowing for differences in their make-up.

Secondly, you comment about the afterwards. Clark did seem shaken while talking with Patricia and said in a competely unusual and hurtful way, "I will deal with Lionel".

Also, how many times has he's saved someone and all he got was a simple Thank you, which is the same way Clark thanked Kara. She clearly knew he was grateful, there didn't need to be hugs and kisses.

I also felt Clark had in interesting talk with Lionel at the end, it was a fighting back his emotion kind of talk. He wanted to be calm, but you feel him restraining himself. If you couldn't hear it and feel it, I'm sorry for you, but many of us did. I think deep down Clark knew he could hurt Lionel more by unincluding him then by any kind of yelling, and again, this is his kryptonian behavior and not necessary a human one.

I hope you can at least consider this long enough not to bash him every other post. It gets old.

[GuardianAngel]

thread is in reference to the way he reacted straight after being held in that cage... he didnt seem shaken to me when he thanked Kara, didnt seem shaken when he was talking to patricia... and i didnt find his emotion came across when taking to Lionel... therefore i felt the whole incident was treated like it was nothing


Agreed. Unfortunately it's not the first time this season that I sense a lack of emotions (and I cannot understand why no one of the people who directed, wrote or were somehow involved in the episode realised it). Clark's reunion with Lana at the beginning of "Fierce" (after everyone thougth she was dead, including Clark) is a clear example of that and left me bitterly disappointed.

[All about Clark]

^I actually thought that was explained by Bizarro; Bizarro said he didn't feel the same anymore and just wanted to do the right thing. I think Clark serious let Lana go in his mind when she died (at least he thought).

Anyways, Clark has pulled his emotions back to some degree because he's mentioned more than once that his emotions get him trouble and are more dangerous than kryptonite. The show is explaining these things, some are just not listening. It was further explained that he feels to much and finds it's a weakness (Bizarro). It was further explained his pulling back, because everyone will die so it's doesn't matter how close he gets, that he will lose them (that whole death angle explored in Cure).

The fact is, he's becoming more Superman and is changing and it is these issues that are changing him.

[BadToad]

"Nemesis" is one of my all time favourites". I love it and one reason is actually that this kryptonite topic was handled sooo well in that episode.

I can't for the life of me figure out how the kryptonite topic was handled better in Nemesis. IMO, it was far less believable then in just about any other episode. Now, I still loved the episode, and I've long since accepted that the kryptonite reactions are pretty much dictated by the needs of the episode. But since this is television where a certain amount of disbelief needs to be suspended, and especially when it comes to SV, I made my peace with it.

But in Nemesis, we had Clark in tunnels that were packed full of kryptonite. Yet, somehow, he is still able to walk, to talk, to crawl through a passage, even climb a ladder and hold onto Lex with one arm, and another one injured. But its more believable then Clark's reaction to the kryptonite cage in Traveler? I can't figure out why.

[Hopefulsuicide]

Actually, I don't remember Superman being in Alias, X-files, or Heroes. I don't think you can compare a reaction from human to be the same as a kryptonian. You are not allowing for differences in their make-up.
.

Clark was raised human. His capacity for emotion is the same as any human IMO. Therefore i feel i can compare Clark the Kryptonian with any other outsider/meteor freak/mutant/person

----- Added 1 Minutes later -----




Secondly, you comment about the afterwards. Clark did seem shaken while talking with Patricia and said in a competely unusual and hurtful way, "I will deal with Lionel".

.

that's fair enough if you saw that, i wish i had seen it, i really do

----- Added 3 Minutes later -----




Also, how many times has he's saved someone and all he got was a simple Thank you, which is the same way Clark thanked Kara. She clearly knew he was grateful, there didn't need to be hugs and kisses.

.

it's not the same in any way. when clark saves someone it is usually not the the same degree of being tortured by a madman hired by someone you trusted to keep you captive

of course she knew he was grateful, i dont doubt that. tbh, i dont think it was neccesary to hug either, but thats because i think he would be a little too shaken up to hug after all the pain

----- Added 8 Minutes later -----


Act

I also felt Clark had in interesting talk with Lionel at the end, it was a fighting back his emotion kind of talk. He wanted to be calm, but you feel him restraining himself. If you couldn't hear it and feel it, I'm sorry for you, but many of us did. I think deep down Clark knew he could hurt Lionel more by unincluding him then by any kind of yelling, and again, this is his kryptonian behavior and not necessary a human one.

I hope you can at least consider this long enough not to bash him every other post. It gets old.


again i say i wish i had felt him restraining himself, but i didnt. there was no bitterness in his voice, no pain in his eyes IMO. i dont think him being calm was more hurtful, i think he was probably thinking 'phew, that could have gone way worse, maybe i can still win back his trust, he didnt seem that bad', which may be setting up later scenes where Lionel DOES try and win back his trust. who knows.

i dont bash clark/ tom every other post. perhaps in this thread there has been a fair amount of expression of dissapointment on both counts, but that is the topic. if you arent finding the thread interesting then thats fine, but some people are interested to post their opinions about these scenes. i dont think it's old.

Clark may be a kryptonian by blood, but it is clear from how his parents used to talk, and from his loves and fears and hopes that he is as human as you and me

----- Added 9 Minutes later -----


Agreed. Unfortunately it's not the first time this season that I sense a lack of emotions (and I cannot understand why no one of the people who directed, wrote or were somehow involved in the episode realised it). Clark's reunion with Lana at the beginning of "Fierce" (after everyone thougth she was dead, including Clark) is a clear example of that and left me bitterly disappointed.

absolutely agreed. that was the worst moment of smallville for me. the love of his life returned from the dead, and it was dealt with with less emotion than a regular scene

[Twitch]

You all bring up great points.

I personally liked Tom's acting in the cage and how Clark handled himself throughout the whole ordeal. I agree with what BadToad said here:

For me, Clark showing strength made him more Superman. For me, Clark not showing weakness to this sadistic animal made him more Superman. For me, Clark trying to face this ordeal on his feet as much as he was physically able makes him more Superman.

I don't need Clark weeping and rocking himself in the corner (for which he would've been savaged on this board for doing) to understand that he was afraid. But instead of giving into that fear, he tried to stay strong and resilient.

The only thing I would have liked to see, perhaps during one of the instances where he was struggling on the ground, was a few quick flashbacks of Jonathan and Martha talking to him about his screct. Warning him of the dangers if the whole world knew and how some people would only want to take advantage of him. Just to acknowledge the fear, that it's there. But I didn't want him to "show" that fear to Pierce, I didn't want to see him breakdown.

[Yasise]

I can't for the life of me figure out how the kryptonite topic was handled better in Nemesis. IMO, it was far less believable then in just about any other episode. Now, I still loved the episode, and I've long since accepted that the kryptonite reactions are pretty much dictated by the needs of the episode. But since this is television where a certain amount of disbelief needs to be suspended, and especially when it comes to SV, I made my peace with it.

But in Nemesis, we had Clark in tunnels that were packed full of kryptonite. Yet, somehow, he is still able to walk, to talk, to crawl through a passage, even climb a ladder and hold onto Lex with one arm, and another one injured. But its more believable then Clark's reaction to the kryptonite cage in Traveler? I can't figure out why.

Because in the tunnels there were kryptonite rocks everywhere and you could see that he really had a tough time in there, right from the beginning - he could barely walk without stumbling and if Lex wouldn't have helped him, he wouldn't have got to that exit on his own.
Talking wasn't easy, too, he barely caught his breath, and finally he had to sit down.
I only agree with that crawling through that passage - well, that was unbelievable, yes.
The ladder thing, well, there wasn't any kryptonite around him up there, maybe that's the reason, why he was able to pull Lex up, but o.k. Maybe adrenalin worked more than superpowers here ;o)
But the rest was very believable, IMO, and excellenty acted.
And there weren't any electrical raising in the amount of the kryptonite exposure, like it was in the cage and which I think, was worse than these rocks in the tunnels.

This guy began to torture him right from the start, but as soon as the kryptonite-electric-shock ended, he was up on his feet again....sorry, not sooo believable, IMO.

As far as I understood, he had already kryptonite in his system because of these tazers, so he had to be weak/sick already, before the guy tortured him.

Well, IMO, "Nemesis" was better than "Traveler", because I really felt Clark's pain and emotions there, too. But I didn't get that feeling with "Traveler".
I think, that cage was worse than the tunnels, due to the rising kryptonite exposure, but I didn't feel it was worse, when watching it.

O.k., I hope I was able to explain the difference of the two ep's from my point of view.

[All about Clark]

Clark was raised human. His capacity for emotion is the same as any human IMO. Therefore i feel i can compare Clark the Kryptonian with any other outsider/meteor freak/mutant/person

I guess you missed my recent post as to why Clark has been pulling back his emotions as the show has clearly expressed this year (as his father wanted, more kryptonian). You must have missed a bunch of episodes like Bizarro and Cure where his emotions were discussed in detail. And the very reason Clark was a popcycle in the fortress

[Yasise]

Agreed. Unfortunately it's not the first time this season that I sense a lack of emotions (and I cannot understand why no one of the people who directed, wrote or were somehow involved in the episode realised it). Clark's reunion with Lana at the beginning of "Fierce" (after everyone thougth she was dead, including Clark) is a clear example of that and left me bitterly disappointed.

Yeah, me, too. When I saw Lana coming into the barn, my heart actually began to beat faster, because I thought: "Wow, Clark is going to flipp out any second because of his joy!"
And then there was only a short look of disbelieve in Clark's eyes and then a hug...and that was all!? I was like....hey, did I miss something or what :confused:. Was that all??? Are you serious???:confused:

And later in the house on the couch, they were talking as if she had returned from vacation. O.k., Clark's eyes seemd to be a little teary, but....come on, when my sweetheart would return from the death, I would hold her in my arms all the time, I would not want to stop hugging her and touching her, because I couldn't believe, that she's really in front of me.

O.k., I don't want to be more off-topic now, but all in all, season 7 is more emotionless, than the other seasons - sorry, that's my opinion, too :)

[All about Clark]

of course she knew he was grateful, i dont doubt that. tbh, i dont think it was neccesary to hug either, but thats because i think he would be a little too shaken up to hug after all the pain

Clark was shaken enough to have trouble getting to his feet after she threw the cage. He did a great stuttering type of step to get to his feet.

[BadToad]

Because in the tunnels there were kryptonite rocks everywhere and you could see that he really had a tough time in there, right from the beginning - he could barely walk without stumbling and if Lex wouldn't have helped him, he wouldn't have got to that exit on his own.

Seemed to me that he got around pretty well considering the concentration of meteor rocks, and the fact that he had a bleeding wound.


Talking wasn't easy, too, he barely caught his breath, and finally he had to sit down.

He "finally" had to sit down? And that was a good way to show the exposure to meteor rock? Considering the concentration of meteor rock, he should never have been able to walk at all. Catching his breath? Like he went for a jog? He should've been gasping for breath with that much meteor dust floating around. Instead he carried on complete conversations.


I only agree with that crawling through that passage - well, that was unbelievable, yes.
The ladder thing, well, there wasn't any kryptonite around him up there, maybe that's the reason, why he was able to pull Lex up, but o.k. Maybe adrenalin worked more than superpowers here ;o)

So, in other words, you fanwank it when it doesn't exactly make sense to make it work for you? Wow, sounds like how people feel about the kryptonite exposure in Traveler.


This guy began to torture him right from the start, but as soon as the kryptonite-electric-shock ended, he was up on his feet again....sorry, not sooo believable, IMO.

Why was it not believable for him to be able to get on his feet? And as we saw, he eventually was NOT able to get on his feet. We saw him struggling, but unable to do that towards the end.


As far as I understood, he had already kryptonite in his system because of these tazers, so he had to be weak/sick already, before the guy tortured him.

Which would explain why his wounds continued to bleed, and why he was sweating, and why it became impossible for him to get up on his feet as the torture went on.


I think, that cage was worse than the tunnels, due to the rising kryptonite exposure, but I didn't feel it was worse, when watching it.

Hmmm, well I never saw him writhing on the floor of the caves, or him groaning in pain in the caves, which certainly was a tip off to me that the cage was pretty bad. As opposed to Clark getting into a pissing match with Lex over Lana, which is what we saw in Nemesis. He seemed to have the strength to do that.

Also, didn't a pile of rocks fall on Clark's head in Nemesis? And didn't he still get up with Lex's help, and run through the tunnels? And that was more believable then Traveler?


O.k., I hope I was able to explain the difference of the two ep's from my point of view.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree, because I'm still scratching my head over how Nemesis can be more believable.

For the record though, I thought the acting by Tom in both episodes was absolutely top notch.

[Yasise]

I guess you missed my recent post as to why Clark has been pulling back his emotions as the show has clearly expressed this year (as his father wanted, more kryptonian). You must have missed a bunch of episodes like Bizarro and Cure where his emotions were discussed in detail. And the very reason Clark was a popcycle in the fortress

But didn't Clark also say, that he wouldn't apologize anymore, for having these emotions and feelings and that they make him, what he is??? I remember at least one time he said something like that to the Martian Manhunter in his loft.

And how could he possibly be able to have less emotions anyway??? There's no emotion-button he can press to make them go away. IMO, Clark can never be like a real kryptonian, like Jor-El wants him obviously to be. He was raised by humans and so he'll always have these emotions.
And even if they have discussed his emotions in those episodes you mention above, than only to make clear, that he will always be different than other kryptonians or aliens, with less emotions. That this is the one point, what makes him so different, because there are more aliens out there, with superpowers, but no alien, with human feelings!

[All about Clark]

He said he wouldn't apologize for caring about people, he did not say he wouldn't apologize for his emotions.

Yes Clark has emotions, however, all year has been about Clark needing to get his emotions in check. And I feel he has worked on this and has even been punished by Jor-el for this.

It's one thing to have emotions, and another to let them run amok. Clearly that episodes like Bizarro where he discusses with MM that to care too much is dangerous and makes him weak and I really believe TPTB are trying to convey to us that Clark is trying. He's at the point where he just doesn't want to make a mistake.

[Yasise]

..............I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree, because I'm still scratching my head over how Nemesis can be more believable.

For the record though, I thought the acting by Tom in both episodes was absolutely top notch.

Yeah, I guess we have to agree to disgree, because I'm not as good with words as you are.
And I also agree with you, concerning Tom's acting


He said he wouldn't apologize for caring about people, he did not say he wouldn't apologize for his emotions.

Yes Clark has emotions, however, all year has been about Clark needing to get his emotions in check. And I feel he has worked on this and has even been punished by Jor-el for this.

It's one thing to have emotions, and another to let them run amok. Clearly that episodes like Bizarro where he discusses with MM that to care too much is dangerous and makes him weak and I really believe TPTB are trying to convey to us that Clark is trying. He's at the point where he just doesn't want to make a mistake.

Well, IMO, caring about people is the same as having feelings for people. You don't care for someone, when you don't have feelings for him. But I agree with you, that Clark is trying to get his emotions under control. With his powers and a destiny to be fulfilled he has to.

[Hopefulsuicide]

He said he wouldn't apologize for caring about people, he did not say he wouldn't apologize for his emotions.

Yes Clark has emotions, however, all year has been about Clark needing to get his emotions in check. And I feel he has worked on this and has even been punished by Jor-el for this.

It's one thing to have emotions, and another to let them run amok. Clearly that episodes like Bizarro where he discusses with MM that to care too much is dangerous and makes him weak and I really believe TPTB are trying to convey to us that Clark is trying. He's at the point where he just doesn't want to make a mistake.

1) IMO caring about people doesnt make you weak. It is also the opinion of Buffy LOL

Kendra: Emotions are weakness, Buffy. You shouldn't entertain dem.

Buffy: Kendra, my emotions give me power. They're total assets!

Buffy: You feel it, right? How the anger gives you fire? A Slayer needs
that.

2) Jor-el in Smallville is not exactly portrayed as the voice of wisdom, but more the voice of control. He wants his son to control his human emotions so that he can do what he thinks is best.

after being trapped in the fortress, i can't imagine Clark would be that into his teachings. why would he feel that he should start listening to his father now?

[GuardianAngel]

Yes Clark has emotions, however, all year has been about Clark needing to get his emotions in check. And I feel he has worked on this and has even been punished by Jor-el for this.


Actually Jor-el punished him because he didn't learn from his mistakes. Clark had already inserted a crystal of dubious origin in the FOS console and nearly destroyed the FOS in "Solitude".

Clark's decision to insert the blue crystal in the console in "Blue" was more the consequence of lack of judgment and complete stupidity than an action based on his emotions. He knew his mother was dead and he also knew that Zor-el was one of the bad guys but what did he do? He inserted a crystal given by Zor-el in the FOS console.:rolleyes:

[ginnyfan]

I loved the episode in every way except one, and that bugs me alot

I mean Lana's 'ill kill him if he hurts clark' thing was perfect, and said with this cold simplicity. Chloe's reasoning with Jor-el was heart felt. Lionel's stuttering attemtps at an explanation showed how frightened of loosing clark he is, and lex wiping the blood off patricia's necklace with this intregued look on his face was really chilling.

But Clark showed nothing.

Ever since he was tiny his parents drilled into him to keep his secret, because they were afraid someone would take him away and keep him locked up and study him. He has probably had hundreds of nightmares about a man like peirce. A sadistic man who would call him a freak and hurt him.

It happened! well not the studying part, but the torture and the calling him a freak and being locked up. Why wasn't he more terrified. It was just terrible acting. I felt no emotion from Clark the whole time he was in that cage. I wanted to see terror in his eyes, something actually dramatic.

Then when he was out, and he said 'i'll deal with lionel' i thought there might be hope of seeing this drama. The man he trusted even after everything he had done, just put him through the most horrible experiance of his life. I expect him to be so angry, to yell at him, to look at him in complete disgust.

Didn't get that either. He just looked a little annoyed, and kinda dissapointed. I would have spat in Lionel's face!

It just let the whole episode down for me.

Wow! I completely disagree.

I loved how Clark fought a bit (though it was lame that super hearing, super speed, heat vision and super breath all failed to cross Clark's mind) when they were first trying to bring Clark down. It was like seeing a big elephant being brought down or something. LOL! Then (here's a wonderful emotion) RAGE! Clark was ENRAGED! Oh it was glorious! He was baring his teeth, snarling, pacing... he was like a caged king LION! Clark Kent's in a Kryptonite cage and he's snarling challenges! *claps hands delightedly*

I loved it. Then when the crazy dude zapped him a few times he was just incredibly weak.

Then after he escaped, when he went to confront Lionel... oh Lionel was afraid. I could feel Clark's power. And Lionel was really afraid that Clark would kill him. But I think it shows how Clark has matured (a bit) from the end of Season 6 where he was going to strangle Lionel because of Lana. It was a great scene of Clark's power restrained.

I don't think there was much psychological distress. He was basically being tortured to death... not really mind... whammied as in some of the other episodes you mentioned. I'm sure Clark will have a few bad dreams and night sweats in offscreenville.

Clark's been captured and exposed to Kryptonite before...

Also... I thought his worst fears were: being called a freak and rejected by Lana AND watching all the people he cares about die. Being left alone forever.

*shrug*

[TheANIMAL (marcus)]

Clark being caught in the first place was [Mod Edit] rediculous.

[Yasise]

1)
after being trapped in the fortress, i can't imagine Clark would be that into his teachings. why would he feel that he should start listening to his father now?


Actually Jor-el punished him because he didn't learn from his mistakes. Clark had already inserted a crystal of dubious origin in the FOS console and nearly destroyed the FOS in "Solitude"..............

When children don't listen to their parents it is normal that there has to be consequences and normally their parents punish them in a way or another. How are kids supposed to learn from their mistakes or to understand, what the rules, given by their parents, are good for?

There had to be rules in life and kids are supposed to learn them from their parents or teachers etc.
I don't think, that there is anybody who has not been punished by his parents in his childhood, and I don't mean necessarily physical punishments.

But things like: "Go to your room and think about what you've done!" like kind of punishments. Because that's exactly, IMO, what Jor-El did to Clark when he trapped him in the fortress.
He didn't listen to his father and he got his punishment. That's all, IMO.

I guess Clark is old enough to see the reason behind that punishment in the fortress and that it's no reason for him to think "Well, Jor-El trapped me in the fortress, now I'll never listen to him again". A reaction like that woul be childish and I don't believe, Clark's thinking like that anyway.

[All about Clark]

1) IMO caring about people doesnt make you weak. It is also the opinion of Buffy LOL

after being trapped in the fortress, i can't imagine Clark would be that into his teachings. why would he feel that he should start listening to his father now?

Actually, Clark spoke those words himself in Bizarro while talking with MM. You don't have to buy it, but Clark does. Clark felt that he was less effective because he was too wigged out about someone getting hurt.

And Clark activated the crystal because of his emotions. His need/feelings to see his mom coupled with her plea and his emotion to help her even though she was already dead.

Clark is learning that too much emotion is dangerous and is trying to dial it down. And he needs to do this because his father will punish him again if he doesn't. Jor-el wants Clark to be more kryptonian and less human.

[GuardianAngel]

When children don't listen to their parents it is normal that there has to be consequences and normally their parents punish them in a way or another. How are kids supposed to learn from their mistakes or to understand, what the rules, given by their parents, are good for?

There had to be rules in life and kids are supposed to learn them from their parents or teachers etc.
I don't think, that there is anybody who has not been punished by his parents in his childhood, and I don't mean necessarily physical punishments.

But things like: "Go to your room and think about what you've done!" like kind of punishments. Because that's exactly, IMO, what Jor-El did to Clark when he trapped him in the fortress.
He didn't listen to his father and he got his punishment. That's all, IMO.

I guess Clark is old enough to see the reason behind that punishment in the fortress and that it's no reason for him to think "Well, Jor-El trapped me in the fortress, now I'll never listen to him again". A reaction like that woul be childish and I don't believe, Clark's thinking like that anyway.

True. Jor-el was trying to Clark for not learning from previous mistakes but he also wanted to show him how grave the consequences can be for the ones he love if he continues to make those mistakes. I believe what the AI was trying to teach Clark was the same thing Bizarro told him in the season premiere: "Have you ever wondered what would happen to these humans if you weren't here to play saviour?"

Unfortunately I don't think Clark has learned the lesson yet. In "Hero" when Lionel suggested taking Kara to the FOS to speed up her memory regaining process, Clark answered:
"Last time I went to Jor-el for advice, he kept me prisoner in the fortress"

Before being captured in "Traveler" Clark had decided to go to the FOS but only because Kara had moved in with Lex, so going there was kind of like his last possibility.

[All about Clark]

after being trapped in the fortress, i can't imagine Clark would be that into his teachings. why would he feel that he should start listening to his father now?

Clark admitted to Lana in the barn that his emotions got people hurt in (Blue). When Clark went to Jor-el to ask him to track Kara down, Jor-el punished Clark because he went with his feelings instead of Jor-el's words. And being a second or third offense.

So Clark agrees with Jor-el that his emotions are dangerous, so he is coming around to Jor-el's way of thinking.

I think Clark is finally starting to understand Jor-el. And I don't think it's that long before he wants his guidance.

[Yasise]

Actually, Clark spoke those words himself in Bizarro while talking with MM. You don't have to buy it, but Clark does. Clark felt that he was less effective because he was too wigged out about someone getting hurt.

And Clark activated the crystal because of his emotions. His need/feelings to see his mom coupled with her plea and his emotion to help her even though she was already dead.

Clark is learning that too much emotion is dangerous and is trying to dial it down. And he needs to do this because his father will punish him again if he doesn't. Jor-el wants Clark to be more kryptonian and less human.

I'm afraid, that Clark will never succeed in "dialing down" his emotions. How can he possibly do that? There's not a "stop-to-feel-button" in his heart. He'll always have emotions and he'll always care about people around him - that's what makes him Superman, too.

The only thing, he has to learn is, how to control his feelings, so that they don't knock out his logical judgement.
I think, Jor-El will punish him again, if he makes another mistake or doesn't listen to him again, but not for not having dialed down his emotions.

[All about Clark]

Clark needs to use logical judgement instead of his feelings, that is true. And if he doesn't, I agree Jor-el will punish him again.

Dialing down to me means the same as controlling those feelings, it is one in the same. When he feels too much is when he gets into trouble. And this year has been about Clark being ruled by his feelings instead of his intellect, and that is what Jor-el is trying to change, and I do see that Clark is working on that and is changing.

[Yasise]

Clark needs to use logical judgement instead of his feelings, that is true. And if he doesn't, I agree Jor-el will punish him again.

Dialing down to me means the same as controlling those feelings, it is one in the same. When he feels too much is when he gets into trouble. And this year has been about Clark being ruled by his feelings instead of his intellect, and that is what Jor-el is trying to change, and I do see that Clark is working on that and is changing.

Oh I see, didn't know, that it means the same. I should have looked it up in my dictionary, stupid me :o
I thought "dialing down" means to "stop" them - sorry, not only Clark has still to learn a lot, I'm afraid, me, too (concerning my english):o

But at least, we obviously agree and that's fine, isn't it :) ?

[Hopefulsuicide]

i'm not saying he should let his emotions rule him, that'd be immature

but i dont think controlling his emotions is a superman thing to do, its just a coming of age thing to do for any human(or kryptonian raised human)

but fear is different

you can't dial down fear. you can be brave and you can not give in and you can fight... but you can't get rid of it.

was watching it again and i figured out exactly whats missing for me... no heavy breathing. no panicked intakes of breath. and obviously i dont mean while he was in pain, cause he barely could breathe. but when he first woke up. i mean if i just woke up in a cell i'd be confused first, then panicked, then deeply scared

i just didnt see any of that.

p.s. i didnt think he pulled off the 'come out here and face me' line particularly well either

[All about Clark]

As a collegiate gymnast, you bet you can dial down fear, that's what that sport is all about. To be afraid is natural, but you can't perform until your able to control your fear or just not let it be prominent (dialing it down). For example, when a gymnast is fearful of a new skill they are attempting, they would recognize their fear, take it and put it in a corner of their brain, they would then focus their brain on another corner like in focusing on the actual task, that fear doesn't go away, it's just being held at bay in a way where it is no longer the focus. That's what bravery is, being to able to do the task even though you are afraid.

Superman is about doing what's right, not what his emotions tell him to do, but his intellect. So yes this is a natural way to go in training Clark to be Superman.

As far as the breathing aspect goes, I really believe everyone is different and there would be slight differences to everyone's reaction in this case. As an athlete, I know people in pain don't necessarily react the same, so I was comfortable with Clark's reaction.

[Hopefulsuicide]

i totally agree that dialing down fear is a huge thing. i'm not a gymnast, but i had chronic anxiety and panic attacks for two years and it took me a long time to control it. i had to do my exams in a room of my own so that if i had to run out of there i could. my hand was shaking so much i couldn't write my own name.

and that's illogical fear, it's different yes, but i did learn to control it, and now if i feel the fear coming on i can push it down. but no matter how much i push it away, its still visable, even if just for a second. people ask me if im okay... i take a moment, breathe, then say 'yeah im fine' and i usually am.

so yeah, im not saying that pushing your fear down is unbelievable. it's totally what superman would do. and in fairness what any man with pride would do. he's way to macho to give his enemy the satisfaction of seeing him break.

but i just wish we could have seen an initial panicked reaction that later became bravery.

[pizzaguy19]

I would have figured the Kryptonian cage would have hurt him more when it wasn't turned up higher, too. I mean, a small necklace can make him fall to his knees, but being in a cage where it's hardly turned up didn't phase him at first?



That's what I was thinking too. A simple rock on his chest and he can't get it off, but he's able to rip that taser dart off at first?