Is Lionel still the MB?

[aqgalaxy]

What you think? Is he still the MB after this episode?

[AndiGirl]

Ok...now it's time for my "duh" moment...whats MB, then I can comment!

[jimmyolsenblues]

Lionel is once , currently and forever the greatest Magnificent Bastard of Smallville.
(He is three times a MB)((Cue the music))

[Twitch]

Ok...now it's time for my "duh" moment...whats MB, then I can comment!
Magnificent Bastard! :D

And as for the topic, I'm not really sure...

[aqgalaxy]

Ok...now it's time for my "duh" moment...whats MB, then I can comment!

Magnificent Bastard

[MidgardDragon]

AndiGirl: "Magnificent Basard"

And I still think he's magnificent and a bastard, just in a different way. He really thinks he's helping Clark, but he's also still a Luthor and is using Luthor methods.

[FLyxNERD]

from wat the veritas trailer looks i think lionel is tryna protect clark from brainiac....and lionel has been knowing bout clarks secret for a very long time...even jonathan kent thinks so

[AndiGirl]

Oh! Thanks everyone....and yes, he definitely is. I think he is totally evil, just like his son. Everything that came out of his mouth was lies...pretending he doesnt have an alternative motive! Please! Just give it up Lionel, you're bad....sorry.

[xrayvision]

I don't think he's totally evil. I do think he's messed up and not good, but I don't think he's evil. I think there could be only 1 evil Luthor now, and that has to be Lex.

[FLyxNERD]

on the previews of veritas lionel tells clark "ive been keeping your secret for way too long"...i think lionel has been knowing ever since he went blind or so called faking his blindness...

[AndiGirl]

But what about Lionel building the cage literally the day after he found out about Clark....I do hope Lionel has some good in him, but signs point to no. I dont buy that he built it for the other kryptonians at all. Lionel is just a master of bs....I'll give him that much. I did feel slightly bad for him when Clark walked away though.

[MidgardDragon]

But what about Lionel building the cage literally the day after he found out about Clark....I do hope Lionel has some good in him, but signs point to no. I dont buy that he built it for the other kryptonians at all. Lionel is just a master of bs....I'll give him that much. I did feel slightly bad for him when Clark walked away though.

I think it ties into my idea that he's still a Luthor at heart, even if he's not completely evil anymore. He built the cage to protect himself if Clark ever got out of control, not specifically so that he could capture him and hold him unprovoked.

[xrayvision]

It could be the day he found out about Clark, he didn't trust him since he didn't know as much about him as he does now. I hope they explain this, because this is a proverbial "elephant in the room".

[FLyxNERD]

But what about Lionel building the cage literally the day after he found out about Clark....I do hope Lionel has some good in him, but signs point to no. I dont buy that he built it for the other kryptonians at all. Lionel is just a master of bs....I'll give him that much. I did feel slightly bad for him when Clark walked away though.

well maybe he is telling the truth....i mean brainiac is still on earth, and back then brainiac was posing as a college professor and i think lionel knew about brainiac all along

[NteEl7]

i say that Lionel is still the MB. he seems like he is trying to help but does so in the stupidest ways.

[MidgardDragon]

It could be the day he found out about Clark, he didn't trust him since he didn't know as much about him as he does now. I hope they explain this, because this is a proverbial "elephant in the room".

I wouldn't call Lionel doing strange and unusual things that seem cruel and unusual an "elephant in the room" at all. More like, "par for the course".

[xrayvision]

Yeah, but if he wanted Clark for himself, why keep him in a cage & torture him? Was he going to threaten Martha to get him to do his bidding? Clark would never do it, and I think Lionel knows it.

[FLyxNERD]

Yeah, but if he wanted Clark for himself, why keep him in a cage & torture him? Was he going to threaten Martha to get him to do his bidding? Clark would never do it, and I think Lionel knows it.

im tellin u lionel has known clarks secret for awhile...longer den chloe
and hes protecting clark more than clark realizes...look at the veritas trailer and listen to what lionel says to clark

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=yJBRuqiYUwE

[BadToad]

Lionel is bad, and messed up. But the MB? No, I don't think so. He's too out of control at the moment. He's more desperate, then magnificent.

[aqgalaxy]

See, I said Yes, but only to Lex

We've seen Lionel getting these letters so imho it forced him to do that. It was just another case of disloyal minion that made it worse in the cell. IMHO Lionel wanted just enough Kryptonite to flow to keep him inside to hold him until the incident blow over.

Also at the end scene, he was scared. Pleading, he even told Clark he isn't the same man. I don't remember the MB being shown sooo... weak.

[Odysseus]

He's now been revealed as still being the MB, and I love the idea.

It's about time they followed up on Jonathan's warning way back in "Void" about how Lionel is still dangerous.

It's pretty easy to guess that the only reason he's been "helping" Clark these past couple seasons is NOT because he truly wants to save the day, the real reason is because he's decided that Clark's side is probably the side that will eventually win...and the MB will ALWAYS want to be on the winning side because it's in his own self-interest.

[minerva73]

on the previews of veritas lionel tells clark "ive been keeping your secret for way too long"...i think lionel has been knowing ever since he went blind or so called faking his blindness...

For me, 2 and a half years seems like a long time to keep someone's secret. And maybe he means another secret. Like the secret of what the traveler would bring to the world that Clark doesn't even know.

If Lionel knew Clark's secret for so long, then why did he begin creating the military facility with the cage's technology in October of '05? It doesn't add up IMO. Lionel knew that the traveler had some kind of importance ever since the '80s. But until the new millennium, he didn't know who the traveler was. So he couldn't really take any precautions for creating a plan to trap the traveler. But when he found out it was Clark, then he built the facility. And he's been trying to get close enough to Clark so that he could keep him for himself in the facility.

Bottom line of what I'm saying: Lionel found out Clark's secret in fall 2005 and that's why he built the facility. Because he knew who the traveler was, so that's why he built the facility then.

(I've gotta stop starting sentences with conjunctions... :\ :o)

[Ilovebeinglost]

I don't know. I thought he was after this epi but there might be things we don't know about yet. I still want to think that he wants to do what is best for Clark. He didn't capture him to torture him and he didn't want him killed and he killed the guy that was going to kill Clark


So I don't know is he trying to hold on to Clark for his own benefit? We'll see

[Zooks]

i think lionel has suspected since season 2... known since transference... been proven since commencement. and i suppose clark and co. are counting lionel "knowing" from after Jor-El possessed his body, months after he technically did find out.

he's a good guy... and tried being good for a while in season 4 but its not in his blood. its in his blood to be deceptive so he used the luthor ways for the force of good. he's unethical but well meaning now...

[minerva73]

i think lionel has suspected since season 2... known since transference... been proven since commencement. and i suppose clark and co. are counting lionel "knowing" from after Jor-El possessed his body, months after he technically did find out.

he's a good guy... and tried being good for a while in season 4 but its not in his blood. its in his blood to be deceptive so he used the luthor ways for the force of good. he's unethical but well meaning now...

When in Season 2? :o "Transference" was a season 4 episode, so I'm not sure if that's what you're connecting to.

I don't see why Lionel would stress on having known Clark's secret ever since "Transference" because that was just a couple of months before he snuck the video from under Martha's cover. The secret that they're talking about could be something different.

[FLyxNERD]

For me, 2 and a half years seems like a long time to keep someone's secret. And maybe he means another secret. Like the secret of what the traveler would bring to the world that Clark doesn't even know.

If Lionel knew Clark's secret for so long, then why did he begin creating the military facility with the cage's technology in October of '05? It doesn't add up IMO. Lionel knew that the traveler had some kind of importance ever since the '80s. But until the new millennium, he didn't know who the traveler was. So he couldn't really take any precautions for creating a plan to trap the traveler. But when he found out it was Clark, then he built the facility. And he's been trying to get close enough to Clark so that he could keep him for himself in the facility.

Bottom line of what I'm saying: Lionel found out Clark's secret in fall 2005 and that's why he built the facility. Because he knew who the traveler was, so that's why he built the facility then.

(I've gotta stop starting sentences with conjunctions... :\ :o)

i think it was precautions for other travelers...i mean he was in veritas wit Dr. Swann..remember those other travelers that came at the end of season 5...i think they were kryptonians..the black guy and the girl..

[warriorrenegade]

AndiGirl: "Magnificent Basard"

And I still think he's magnificent and a bastard, just in a different way. He really thinks he's helping Clark, but he's also still a Luthor and is using Luthor methods.


Exactly what I was going to say. :D

[minerva73]

i think it was precautions for other travelers...i mean he was in veritas wit Dr. Swann..remember those other travelers that came at the end of season 5...i think they were kryptonians..the black guy and the girl..

100 bucks says dat lionel has been knowing before chloe

For me, I think that he was preparing it for the other travelers like you said, but he also wanted the research and all of that Veritas stuff to be finished before he took the traveler for himself. That's probably why he killed (if he did) Robert Queen. Probably because he was the one who might have snitched on Lionel because he wanted Veritas for himself.

I pass. ;) Because he probably did know about some secret of Clark's ever since he started Veritas with those other people...too irrelevant to point out there names now. :rotfl: :p

[FLyxNERD]

For me, I think that he was preparing it for the other travelers like you said, but he also wanted the research and all of that Veritas stuff to be finished before he took the traveler for himself. That's probably why he killed (if he did) Robert Queen. Probably because he was the one who might have snitched on Lionel because he wanted Veritas for himself.

I pass. ;) Because he probably did know about some secret of Clark's ever since he started Veritas with those other people...too irrelevant to point out there names now. :rotfl: :p

lol the bet was just kind of a figure of speech....im just sayin i think lionel has kept clarks for his protection and maybe 4 his best interest...

if i found an alien i would prolly want him/her all to myself as well :lol:

[SpiritedDiva]

He will always be the MB! But, I can't help but think that he in the same boat as Lana.
Lana brought it to his attention an epi or two ago. When she aknowledged she was justifying her own actions like her ex husband and father in law.

I think Lional is justifying his actions. As long as he is protecting the traveler, if a few get hurt in the process, so be it. Also, when he is telling Clark that he is not the same person, it looks like he is trying to convince himself more than Clark.

So, I think that Lionel is trying to believe himself to be good, but he may be kidding himself.

[minerva73]

lol the bet was just kind of a figure of speech....im just sayin i think lionel has kept clarks for his protection and maybe 4 his best interest...

if i found an alien i would prolly want him/her all to myself as well :lol:

I know. It's not like I was opening up PayPal or something... :rolleyes: *closes PayPal window silently* I agree...kinda. I dunno about Lionel, he's one of those psychotic hooker...soz about that. Psychotic Trick = Black Canary. Lionel Luthor = Plain Psychotic

:rotfl: :rotfl:

[FLyxNERD]

He will always be the MB! But, I can't help but think that he in the same boat as Lana.
Lana brought it to his attention an epi or two ago. When she aknowledged she was justifying her own actions like her ex husband and father in law.

I think Lional is justifying his actions. As long as he is protecting the traveler, if a few get hurt in the process, so be it. Also, when he is telling Clark that he is not the same person, it looks like he is trying to convince himself more than Clark.

So, I think that Lionel is trying to believe himself to be good, but he may be kidding himself.

even tho i think Lionel is a more criminal mastermind genius then lex, i prefer the good lionel...

----- Added 3 Minutes later -----


I know. It's not like I was opening up PayPal or something... :rolleyes: *closes PayPal window silently* I agree...kinda. I dunno about Lionel, he's one of those psychotic hooker...soz about that. Psychotic Trick = Black Canary. Lionel Luthor = Plain Psychotic

:rotfl: :rotfl:

ur avi reminds me of tonights episode wen lex goes into kara's room and finds that she already left..his face looks pissed and i was like "U mad, yea u mad" :lol:

[Zooks]

When in Season 2? :o "Transference" was a season 4 episode, so I'm not sure if that's what you're connecting to.

I don't see why Lionel would stress on having known Clark's secret ever since "Transference" because that was just a couple of months before he snuck the video from under Martha's cover. The secret that they're talking about could be something different.

when in season 2? i don't know... how about when we found out that he had kryptonite in safes with clark's file in it? or when he took interest in the caves? or when clark assumed he was blind and he wasn't and then Lionel became obsessed with Clark from then on.... A billionaire like Lionel Luthor can't afford a scandal like accusing a farm boy of being an alien without proof... Why spy and research him without the possible belief?

He suspected in seasons 2 and 3.... He hoped it would lead him to find a cure for his cancer.... but after Transference in season 4 (when he found out Clark's powers), he was healed of his cancer and has been protecting Clark since then. There is no evidence that he wasn't protecting Clark in season 4... Why would he tell people that he was healed from an angel/alien. Hell, he even led Clark to China through Lana and shot Jason before revealing that Clark was the "Chosen One" that Lionel had previously called Lana earlier in the episode in season 4's biggest plot hole. Lionel has been a good person since Transference but after Onyx, he's used the Luthor persona to accomplish his goals since the goody-goody way doesn't work. However, I do admit that Veritas could elaborate that Lionel was only protecting Veritas interests after Transference and honestly did not remember a thing from being in Clark's body. I hope it does.

The video? Are you talking about the one from cyborg? Lionel had known long before that, even if you assume he found out in Commencement. He had photographic proof that he burned before that video was even created. He burnt the picture in Fanatic.... Then showed Jonathan a so far unrevealed picture that made him not trust Lionel in the afterlife in Reckoning.... Then he bribes off a blackmailer who has a video of Clark rescuing Lana in Lockdown... afrer Fanatic.

[minerva73]

ur avi reminds me of tonights episode wen lex goes into kara's room and finds that she already left..his face looks pissed and i was like "U mad, yea u mad" :lol:

:rotfl: :rotfl: Lex is probably gonna fire his assisticant (;)) lady now. :rotfl: Probably is gonna "verbally assault" her before he slaps her. :D

[bklvr]

I think Lionel has been lulling Clark into a false sense of security. He's always been good at playing the long game. Planning and building the cage, hiring the evil 33.1 dude, hiding Kara's bracelet in the safe, keeping Kryptonite in his safe.... All these are not actions of a person who cares about Clark's well-being. I actually like Lionel better when he is a MB; he's so sneaky and twisty and interesting.

My question is: at the end of the episode, Lionel looks old and very frightened. What is he frightened of? Does he think Clark will take revenge on him? Not that Clark didn't have serious provocation, but that's not CK's way. Witness the confrontation and Clark walking away without laying a finger on him.

(Hope this isn't too off topic) I think this latest betrayal is essential in Clark's journey toward becoming Superman. He's getting better about speaking the hard truth to people's faces - with Lana (about Bizarro) and now with Lionel - telling him basically 'You are not a different person now.'

[minerva73]

I think Lionel has been lulling Clark into a false sense of security. He's always been good at playing the long game. Planning and building the cage, hiring the evil 33.1 dude, hiding Kara's bracelet in the safe, keeping Kryptonite in his safe.... All these are not actions of a person who cares about Clark's well-being. I actually like Lionel better when he is a MB; he's so sneaky and twisty and interesting.

My question is: at the end of the episode, Lionel looks old and very frightened. What is he frightened of? Does he think Clark will take revenge on him? Not that Clark didn't have serious provocation, but that's not CK's way. Witness the confrontation and Clark walking away without laying a finger on him.

(Hope this isn't too off topic) I think this latest betrayal is essential in Clark's journey toward becoming Superman. He's getting better about speaking the hard truth to people's faces - with Lana (about Bizarro) and now with Lionel - telling him basically 'You are not a different person now.'

I agree about what you said about the Lionel basically making Clark feel safe. I think that Clark was a big reason why he built the facility besides the other travelers. Or else he could have built it after he came back from Jor-El Land.

I think that he's scared of himself. Or at least what he's becoming. Kinda like Lex at the end of "Persona" when he screamed out in the rain. Maybe that's what Lionel's feeling.

Agreed. Clark is becoming better at that, but he should know when to keep quiet about it as well IMO. Being too loud with that stuff just might land you with Kryptonite on your chest. :\

[Zooks]

i think lionel knows his time is nearly up, even though he is filled with a lot of valuable knowledge of the evil that is coming.... He has saved Clark's life from serious threats in the past. He told Chloe about Brainiac so that she could save his life in Solitude. He destroyed a Brainiac copy in Oracle. He helped Clark in Vessel. He tried to kill Zod in Zod. He tried to save Clark from Bizarro in Phantom. He tried to kill himself instead of Martha in Mercy so Clark could "become the man the world so desperately needs." He told Zor-El that Clark's destiny was greater than his. These actions seem little for a man who would easily sell Clark out. Lionel is good... at least now. He's a bad man who has found himself fighting on the side of humanity's future.

[minerva73]

But maybe he was just protecting Clark, so he could have him for himself. Patricia said that Lionel killed all or most of the Veritas members so that he could have the traveler for himself. And if all of those villains defeated Clark, then he wouldn't have Clark to himself because the villains defeated him.

[cygnusx1]

i think he suspected as soon as he arranged the adoption for the kents. his suspicions grew in red when he found the two bullets laying on the mansion floor.

[Zooks]

i'll give you that. He could have done the right thing for selfish reasons, which would be in character. We will know soon enough... I'm leaning towards Lionel being good only because it makes the most since for Lionel to slowly turn good as Lex slowly turns evil over the course of the series. But is it worth Lionel killing himself (Mercy) so that Clark can still have Martha be a positive influence in Clark's life? I'm sure this isn't on the writers' mind since the Vertitas plot is probably a retcon, but who knows, since the Jason shooting feels like the show might have somewhat planned this out to be mentioned again after season 4's plans got butchered up by Reeve's death, Kidder deciding not to return, and a lack of logic in providing backstory to the crystal plot.

[jhei]

The "current" Lionel in S7 reminds me of Snape in the Harry Potter series... He is so ambiguous... I think that this "current" Lionel isn't the MB he used to be anymore. He's not totally evil anymore.. that title would now go to Lex. Lionel, I think, is just trying to help Clark, it's just that his methods are vague and may seem cruel at first sight. You don't really know if he's on the side of good or bad... just like Snape. But IMO, I think he's really changed, and this ambiguity makes his character very interesting. I bet that he really is on Clark's side, and probably dies helping him. (from Lex's hands, maybe?)

[MozartRequiem]

"The "current" Lionel in S7 reminds me of Snape in the Harry Potter series... He is so ambiguous... I think that this "current" Lionel isn't the MB he used to be anymore. He's not totally evil anymore.. that title would now go to Lex. Lionel, I think, is just trying to help Clark, it's just that his methods are vague and may seem cruel at first sight. You don't really know if he's on the side of good or bad... just like Snape. But IMO, I think he's really changed, and this ambiguity makes his character very interesting. I bet that he really is on Clark's side, and probably dies helping him. (from Lex's hands, maybe?)"

Agreed. I REALLY hope he dies trying to protect Clark at Lex's hands! It would be so ironic and such a great ending for his character-the man who started out doing anything and hurting anyone to find out Clark Kent's secret ends up being the one dying for Clark because he cares for him. What a great twist, and an awesome way to show Lex stepping into the villain title.

[Kel-El09]

I don't know..I think Lionel truly wants to help Clark..I think he just always goes about it the wrong way.

[minerva73]

"The "current" Lionel in S7 reminds me of Snape in the Harry Potter series... He is so ambiguous... I think that this "current" Lionel isn't the MB he used to be anymore. He's not totally evil anymore.. that title would now go to Lex. Lionel, I think, is just trying to help Clark, it's just that his methods are vague and may seem cruel at first sight. You don't really know if he's on the side of good or bad... just like Snape. But IMO, I think he's really changed, and this ambiguity makes his character very interesting. I bet that he really is on Clark's side, and probably dies helping him. (from Lex's hands, maybe?)"

I never really thought of the Snape connection. Before this episode, I'd say that he was. But this episode makes me question his motives since Snape was truly always there for Harry even in the start while Lionel wasn't there for Clark in the start. But I guess the start would be when he started behaving friendly towards Clark in "Fade".

[MozartRequiem]

About the Snape connection, I don't know much about Harry Potter, but it sounds like a good comparison.

To me, Lionel reminds me a bit of Catwoman. It sounds like a strange comparison at first, but hear me out: Catwoman, like Lionel, is never fully clear on what side they are on, but in the end, Batman cares for Catwoman because she does stand by him. She does protect him, and sometimes nearly dies for him. But she uses shady, and sometimes, dangerous tactics, and sometimes her interests are very self-motivated.

In other words, Lionel, like Catwoman, is the ultimate "antihero". (I'd love to see Christopher Nolan portray Catwoman this way in a movie, and do it in a really realistic style. That'd be awesome!)

[wally0226]

He'll always be the MB, but evil? If that was the case, why did the Martian Manhunter stop Clark from hurting him? MM specifically stated that he "was an emmisary of Jor-El, this man is on our side." I think there is more going on than meets the eye.

[MozartRequiem]

"He'll always be the MB, but evil? If that was the case, why did the Martian Manhunter stop Clark from hurting him? MM specifically stated that he "was an emmisary of Jor-El, this man is on our side." I think there is more going on than meets the eye."

No, I wasn't saying that Lionel will always be the MB and be evil. I was saying that he's now on the good side, but uses MB tactics and still has lots of darkness in him. That's what I meant with the "antihero" comment. IMO, he's definitely not the "villain" of the story anymore.

[LexLuv180]

AndiGirl: "Magnificent Basard"

And I still think he's magnificent and a bastard, just in a different way. He really thinks he's helping Clark, but he's also still a Luthor and is using Luthor methods.

Exactly. I agree 100%. I'm sure it would be hard for Clark to see this, especially since he was tortured by that whacko though.

[Bo Duke Bo Duke]

Lionel is not against Clark. He protected him the only way he knew how, and it was in a bad way. I felt sad when Clark to him "no your not" referring to Lionel saying he was a changed man. Lionel wants redemption for his pass acts, i'm pretty sure of it, but he is doing it the "Luther way". With that said, i know for sure that Lionel will get the "X" in the Episode Descent.

[LexLuv180]

I know, I felt bad for him too. From Clark's point of view, I understand why he's beyond angry, he just went through hell. But from Lionel's viewpoint I felt bad for him, and realize how much he desires Clark's closer affection.

[Vergon6]

They will probably redeem Lionel enough in the next episode just before he presumably dies. Of course, that is just speculation by many of us at this point, but it seems like it's going that way.

[Bo Duke Bo Duke]

They will probably redeem Lionel enough in the next episode just before he presumably dies. Of course, that is just speculation by many of us at this point, but it seems like it's going that way.

Or they wont from Clark's point of view but, us the viewer, will know about is redemption. That would be a really tragic death for a tragic hero. I like that the tragic heroes dies without anyone knowing they were.

[LexLuv180]

I hate when they go that route, if someone dies doing something good and no one ever finds out. Makes the death seem wasted. :( Of course, I'd hate to see Lionel dying regardless.

[Bo Duke Bo Duke]

I hate when they go that route, if someone dies doing something good and no one ever finds out. Makes the death seem wasted. :( Of course, I'd hate to see Lionel dying regardless.

Ok, i hate/like that route, but to me it make sense for him to go that way. And i think i would be more mad about Chloe's death then Lionel's i must say and they are the only 2 i can think of unless KK and the TV Guide dude are a part of a big conspiracy against us to lead us away from who will really die by posting things online. :eek:

[jazel]

Christ, Lionel is so pathetic, I will shave my legs asap.:lol:

[Yasise]

...........he's a good guy... and tried being good for a while in season 4 but its not in his blood. its in his blood to be deceptive so he used the luthor ways for the force of good. he's unethical but well meaning now...

agreed :)


i think lionel knows his time is nearly up, even though he is filled with a lot of valuable knowledge of the evil that is coming.... He has saved Clark's life from serious threats in the past. He told Chloe about Brainiac so that she could save his life in Solitude. He destroyed a Brainiac copy in Oracle. He helped Clark in Vessel. He tried to kill Zod in Zod. He tried to save Clark from Bizarro in Phantom. He tried to kill himself instead of Martha in Mercy so Clark could "become the man the world so desperately needs." He told Zor-El that Clark's destiny was greater than his. These actions seem little for a man who would easily sell Clark out. Lionel is good... at least now. He's a bad man who has found himself fighting on the side of humanity's future.

Yes, I think so, too. I 95% believe Lionel is not evil anymore. I think, he kind of envys and admires Clark because of all the powers he has. I do believe the experience in "Transference" had changed him ultimately and even if he uses evil methods to achieve what he wants, he's still doing it to protect Clark and to help him fulfill his destiny.

But still there is that 5% of doubt in me and I'm sooo curious about the next episode now again.

[Jaderoyale]

AndiGirl: "Magnificent Basard"

And I still think he's magnificent and a bastard, just in a different way. He really thinks he's helping Clark, but he's also still a Luthor and is using Luthor methods.

I agree :)
Lionel just uses different methods to help people.

But if he is completely the MB, i will not be bothered. :D
I love the Magnificent Bastard.

[Krypton935]

yeah-he is always the MB

[Hopefulsuicide]

if clark is the good, and lex is the bad... lionel is just this big patch of grey

i think he is still convinced that he is doing the right thing, but he's just not very good at it lol

[Joelito]

No. Something is in the air, that Veritas will explain.

[Yasise]

Of course he is!

Even if he has changed and is actually a good person at heart now (I believe "Transference" has changed him), he will never doubt to use everything or everyone for the greater good - for the greater good in his eyes.

In "Traveler" he even put Clark in danger in that cage and watched him having pain!
We don't know the reason for his behaviour yet, we don't know, who has sent him those letters, do we?

I guess next week we all know better, but I think, it was really MB like!

Maybe he was telling the truth to Clark when he came to his office in the end of "Traveler", that he really did this whole cage thing in order to protect Clark, but it is really hard to believe. Maybe he didn't want Clark to go through so much pain and he obviously had no control over that weird man.
I guess Clark's trust in him , if there ever was any, is surely gone now. I'm soo curious, what's going to happen next week.
The waiting begins again.

[Stephen Robinson]

Lionel might have had his suspicions about Clark but he didn't fully learn his secret until "Transference." That seemed fairly clear (although, Smallville isn't beyond retcons -- like the previous relationship between Swann and Lionel, which isn't evident in their one scene together in Season 3).

"Transference" seems critical if you wish to make any sense out of Lionel's character. He's pretty much a monster in the first three seasons and in that episode -- he almost kills Jonathan and Lex and would have killed Clark. After that episode, he's different -- even when he's no longer overtly "good" and is wearing the power suit, his outlook and tactics change drastically.

What I find interesting is that during the past three seasons, he doesn't seem that different from Jor-El. Jor-El also imprisoned his son for "his own good."

[Yasise]

Lionel might have had his suspicions about Clark but he didn't fully learn his secret until "Transference." That seemed fairly clear (although, Smallville isn't beyond retcons -- like the previous relationship between Swann and Lionel, which isn't evident in their one scene together in Season 3).

"Transference" seems critical if you wish to make any sense out of Lionel's character. He's pretty much a monster in the first three seasons and in that episode -- he almost kills Jonathan and Lex and would have killed Clark. After that episode, he's different -- even when he's no longer overtly "good" and is wearing the power suit, his outlook and tactics change drastically.

What I find interesting is that during the past three seasons, he doesn't seem that different from Jor-El. Jor-El also imprisoned his son for "his own good."

Yes, you're right. As I said before, I do believe that Lionel has changed into a good person, only his methods didn't change and therefore it's very difficult to really believe in his goodness. Well, I guess, Clark won't trust him anymore. Let's see, what's going to happen next week.

BTW, when I watched Lionel drinking his scotch (or whatever it was) in his office, he seemed to be so sad and actually looked really sick, that I thought for a moment: "Hey did he just drink poison with his scotch in order to commit suicide?"
I almost waited for him to collapse before Clark and - as we all heard, somebody is going to die this season and this someone is a person who is there from the first season onwards - I really thought, it would be Lionel.

O.k., o.k. I know that he's going to be there in "Veritas" next week, but still, at that moment, I was "Oh my God, he drank poison!"

Watch it again and you'll see, what I mean. John Glover did an amazing job there. I actually felt sorry for him.

BUt who knows, maybe he IS the one, who's going to die in one of the next ep's?

[Stephen Robinson]

But maybe he was just protecting Clark, so he could have him for himself. Patricia said that Lionel killed all or most of the Veritas members so that he could have the traveler for himself. And if all of those villains defeated Clark, then he wouldn't have Clark to himself because the villains defeated him.

*************
SER: Lex and Patricia Swann both claimed that Lionel killed the Veritas members. That doesn't make it so. Lionel wasn't really in a position to mastermind a murder when Swann died in Season 4. Logic would dictate that it was the Teagues -- who also were behind the murder of Bridget Crosby.

Also, I think people are overlooking something critical: If this was Lionel's "bold move," then he wouldn't have asked for Clark to be freed once Swann was "out of the way." His explanation to Clark is also fairly plausible: Even with Kara in the picture, the majority of Kryptonians (Zod's disciples) and those with Kryptonian powers (Lexod) were serious threats.

I also think that Clark is often a little hypocritical in that he thinks no one is allowed to keep a secret (Lana with ISIS, for example) from him yet when he keeps secrets, it's for a higher purpose (e.g. hiding the crystal that came in Kara's ship from her).

[clarkbunny]

I voted only to Lex and those in his way.

I think he was the MB up until he became the emissary of Jor-El. He probably did kill the other Veritas members as he was the MB at that time and would have wanted the others out of the way so he could keep the traveller to himself.

His story/tactics seem to be cruel but true. He locked Clark up for his own safety. The kryptonite was only meant to contain Clark not hurt him - it just so happened the guy running the facility was crazy. Also I think he didn't trust Patricia and didn't know if she was the one sending him the letters so he used sneaky MB ways to obtain the information she had from her whilst preventing her from meeting the traveller aka Clark.

Unfortunately in all his underhand sneakiness he has lost Clark's trust and rightfully so.

[Yasise]

I voted only to Lex and those in his way.

I think he was the MB up until he became the emissary of Jor-El. He probably did kill the other Veritas members as he was the MB at that time and would have wanted the others out of the way so he could keep the traveller to himself.

His story/tactics seem to be cruel but true. He locked Clark up for his own safety. The kryptonite was only meant to contain Clark not hurt him - it just so happened the guy running the facility was crazy. Also I think he didn't trust Patricia and didn't know if she was the one sending him the letters so he used sneaky MB ways to obtain the information she had from her whilst preventing her from meeting the traveller aka Clark.

Unfortunately in all his underhand sneakiness he has lost Clark's trust and rightfully so.

I'm not sure about Lionel myself, but as another poster said, why didn't Lionel use blue kryptonite then, instead of green k.?
Clark wouldn't have been able to get out of it either, and he wouldn't have had any pain.

But maybe there isn't so much of blue k out there :confused:

[MetroGirl06]

Well, yeah hes still the MB! But I don't know, seems like hes been written a bit out of character these past few episodes. Can't really put my finger on it though.

[clarkbunny]

I'm not sure about Lionel myself, but as another poster said, why didn't Lionel use blue kryptonite then, instead of green k.?
Clark wouldn't have been able to get out of it either, and he wouldn't have had any pain.

But maybe there isn't so much of blue k out there :confused:

I don't know if Lionel knows about blue kryptonite though. The 'Lionel' that told Clark how to find Dax-ur and get the blue kryptonite was actually Brainiac and not Lionel at all.

[Yasise]

I don't know if Lionel knows about blue kryptonite though. The 'Lionel' that told Clark how to find Dax-ur and get the blue kryptonite was actually Brainiac and not Lionel at all.

Yes, I know, but he was Jor-El's vessel, maybe he still has some of his knowledge left in his head or did he forget everything? I don't think so :confused:

But, well, blue or green, it was obviously a strange way to keep Clark out of harms way. I guess, there must have been another reason for Lionel to do what he did. I hope we'll find out next week.

[superpal1]

I believe that what Lionel did in the past to the others in Veritas was true, but then he had the change of heart. He is a changed man, but he cannot escape his evil past. Lex had her killed at the end, not Lionel. Whatever reasons Lionel had in the past for his use of the Traveler are not the reasons he is helping Clark now.

[Fly by guy]

No matter what Lionel's intent, it was not just wrong to capture and hold Clark, it was malicious. Clark could have been protected without being viciously kidnapped. I hope the MB is really back and that Lionel is not the one killed off soon. JG is at his best when he is truly evil and at the same time so nice and calm when choas is at hand. Kudos for the excellent job he did in Traveler. I almost believe he believes the lies he told from Chloe and Lana, to Lex, and Patricia. I like that he keeps us guessing, unlike the robot that Lex has become. He fools the other characters but no longer the fans and that is a shame.
I guess they feel that Lionel's duplicity has been replaced by Lex but as stated above I think that Lionel would be sorely missed now that his motives as as much in question as ever.

[queenelizabeth]

Lionel is such a MB. His twisted plots and motives make him such a surprising character. But he is totally THE MB OF SMALLVILLE!!!!

[SueB]

I believe the son has replaced the father. Lionel is at the end of his rope.

[All about Clark]

Lionel is bad, and messed up. But the MB? No, I don't think so. He's too out of control at the moment. He's more desperate, then magnificent.

Ha. I like this. He screwed up. He put the murder threat ahead of Clark. And he desperately wishes he didn't do it. One strong moment was the look he gave of Clark when Pierce said he had to die, Lionel was searching for a way to save Clark and knew he screwed up. He wanted to protect Clark and he almost became his doom. Like what Chloe said Lana was capable of, Lionel actually did. It was interesting. Lionel lost the one thing he wanted and that was to protect Clark and for Clark to trust him back.