Jonathan's warning from Void proving to be true

[xrayvision]

It took 2 years, but Jonathan's warning to Clark when the 2 last talked in Void has been proven in this episode.

[Mrs.Bizzaro]

It's ok, you can post what Jonathan's warning is. Don't be shy now.

[xrayvision]

His warning was that he was protecting Clark from Lionel because Lionel knows everything about Clark's secret.

[Ginx]

It's ok, you can post what Jonathan's warning is. Don't be shy now.

;) - I know right.... I was having trouble recalling it but it's ringing a bell now..... I miss Jonathan.... and Martha for that matter.

But yeah, it looks like... omg... could it be that it's almost a continuity from past episodes!

[miks]

no way! Not on Smallville, there must be some sort of mistake

[Mrs.Bizzaro]

His warning was that he was protecting Clark from Lionel because Lionel knows everything about Clark's secret.


Ahhhhhh, well Pa kent always kept saying stuff like that in more than one episode...couldn't really recall this one :p

Well, yeah. Lionel I think has extremely skewed ideas of helping people. I don't think he really wanted to hurt Clark... as crazy as that sounds... he probably thought to himself "oh well he can handle it" and didn't count on his henchman double crossing him. For someone who doesn't trust anyone that was really a stupid move.

[xrayvision]

But he never said why he put him in a kryptonite cage. How could that protect him?

[ClLaLeChFAN01]

Im learning that Smallville continuity takes years

[kp1984]

Yeah that was an evil thing Lionel did. Hey at least he could have made it out of blue K. At least it would'nt have killed him.

[xrayvision]

So does this mean that Lionel perhaps did do something to kill Jonathan in the barn? His approach to Jonathan with that picture wasn't one of a good guy. It's possible that Lionel did that to get Jonathan out of the way so he could have Clark all to himself as Patricia said.

[Odysseus]

Im learning that Smallville continuity takes years

Hey, it took 3 years for them to finally mention Lana's magic tatoo again. Seriously, last week's episode was the very first mention of it since it vanished in Season 4.

But yes, I definitely agree about Jonathan's warning finally coming true. Lana said the records showed Lionel had been constructing the prison since around the time he'd discovered Clark's secret...which was Season 5, the same season poor Jonathan was written off the show.

So yes, Lionel had indeed already been working on this around the time of "Void."

[minerva73]

So does this mean that Lionel perhaps did do something to kill Jonathan in the barn? His approach to Jonathan with that picture wasn't one of a good guy. It's possible that Lionel did that to get Jonathan out of the way so he could have Clark all to himself as Patricia said.

I think so as well. And he probably knew that Martha would be an easy target if he just helped her with her campaign a little, so perhaps Patricia was correct. Maybe she has a journal that nobody knows about...

[AlphaSigmaOne]

Well, I think Lionel has been Lion-El since "Transference."

He's just sort of had this Freudian passive/dominate personalty battle going. It's why he so abruptly shot Jason on the precipice in "Forever." (You'd think Lionel would've at least heard what Jason had to say.) Also, I think he went to the barn in "Reckoning" to sincerely discuss Clark's future and to so much to abuse the position. It's just, in both cases the MB was looking over his shoulder--sort of speak.

Either that, or Al/Miles didn't know what to do with him so they just figured making him mysterious and esoteric might be creative and profound.

[warriorrenegade]

But he never said why he put him in a kryptonite cage. How could that protect him?

Lionel said it was to keep Clark away from P.Swann and her Veritas people. Lionel was in his twisted way keeping Clark safe from himself. Now I'm not saying Lionel is a good man, far from it, but that's how the show has presented it. Also Lionel mentioned that other Kryptonians have arrived and that he built the "jail" for holding them captive.

[litew8]

Lana said the records showed Lionel had been constructing the prison since around the time he'd discovered Clark's secret...which was Season 5, the same season poor Jonathan was written off the show. But - didn't Lionel know "unofficially" about Clark's secret well before Clark (or Lana) knew Lionel knew?

[xrayvision]

Hey, it took 3 years for them to finally mention Lana's magic tatoo again. Seriously, last week's episode was the very first mention of it since it vanished in Season 4.

But yes, I definitely agree about Jonathan's warning finally coming true. Lana said the records showed Lionel had been constructing the prison since around the time he'd discovered Clark's secret...which was Season 5, the same season poor Jonathan was written off the show.

So yes, Lionel had indeed already been working on this around the time of "Void."

The thing that amazes me the most is the article Lionel is seen holding in the Pilot. It's the very first thing we see in the show on Earth. Could they really have planned the Queens' disappearance & its ties to the overall storyline that early? It would be amazing if it can be proven. I think with Jeph Loeb being part of the team back then, it may be possible since I don't think Al/Miles would have known who Ollie Queen or his parents are/were without Loeb.

Another interesting thing I noticed was a comment by Lionel to Lex after he showed him that drawing of the Veritas logo that Patricia gave back to him. Lionel said something like "Aren't you afraid that you'll end up like you always thought". I thought that was a reference to him being Sageeth. But why would Lionel tie Veritas with the Naman legend? Wouldn't he basically give away the purpose of Veritas to Lex by associating it with Sageeth?

[alienkinfolk]

Maybe Lionel is going from evil to senile

[xrayvision]

Lionel said it was to keep Clark away from P.Swann and her Veritas people. Lionel was in his twisted way keeping Clark safe from himself. Now I'm not saying Lionel is a good man, far from it, but that's how the show has presented it. Also Lionel mentioned that other Kryptonians have arrived and that he built the "jail" for holding them captive.

You have a point. If you count the day that Lionel learned about Clark as the day he returned in Hidden (since he definitely wasn't himself in Arrival or Mortal), then he would also have known about Aethyr & Nam-Ek that same day since he told Lana how to stop them while possessed.

[Theshadow129x]

I think you're right. No matter how much you think you can trust Lionel, he still does something under handed that you just dont expect. I didn't think lionel was telling the truth about trying to protect Clarkn because he could have just warned him evn if Clark ran to teh bad guy to face him . He used kryptonite to capture him and it wouldnt have taken much of it to kill him, yet thats what they did to get him. it was just wrong.

[Vergon6]

The thing that amazes me the most is the article Lionel is seen holding in the Pilot. It's the very first thing we see in the show on Earth. Could they really have planned the Queens' disappearance & its ties to the overall storyline that early? It would be amazing if it can be proven. I think with Jeph Loeb being part of the team back then, it may be possible since I don't think Al/Miles would have known who Ollie Queen or his parents are/were without Loeb.

Another interesting thing I noticed was a comment by Lionel to Lex after he showed him that drawing of the Veritas logo that Patricia gave back to him. Lionel said something like "Aren't you afraid that you'll end up like you always thought". I thought that was a reference to him being Sageeth. But why would Lionel tie Veritas with the Naman legend? Wouldn't he basically give away the purpose of Veritas to Lex by associating it with Sageeth?
Well they probably planned on having Lionel tied to the Queens' disappearance but all the other things probably came slowly. The realized they had all these threads in the series that seem to vaguely tie together and then retroactively created the Veritas backstory from there. Probably the first time they seriously started think of things being tied together was Season 4.

It is hard to see what Lionel's motivation was to protect Clark. He did only put him in a cage after Veritas started contacting him again. But you could sort of tell he was stretching the truth when he was talking to Clark. I still don't get why Lionel was chosen as an emissary of Jor-El if he was ultimately going to be evil. Perhaps just by his interaction with the elements? (Transference, Commencement) and then subsequently being made an Oracle for Jor-El. I think in some twisted way Lionel thinks he is doing the right thing, but his old ways still rule him. It's just in recent years Jor-El's influence has caused a downturn in his shady behavior until the past several months (including the whole thing in Promise).

[minerva73]

The thing that amazes me the most is the article Lionel is seen holding in the Pilot. It's the very first thing we see in the show on Earth. Could they really have planned the Queens' disappearance & its ties to the overall storyline that early? It would be amazing if it can be proven. I think with Jeph Loeb being part of the team back then, it may be possible since I don't think Al/Miles would have known who Ollie Queen or his parents are/were without Loeb.

I think that they had soem kind of idea of where they were going to go with it, but they didn't have the whole thing planned out like it is now. Like if you start saying that you'll save for a bike and collect lots of coins when you break it open, you'll find out that you've been saving for a Harley. :rotfl: (not the exact quote, but meh) I think it's the same way. The didn't have an exact plan, but they had a general idea. Then they just probably added onto it each season until they believed that it would be good enough to finish that plot up. :)

[kszonew]

Didn't Jeph Loeb not come onto the show until season 2? If so, my guess is Al and Miles did some background on some of the characters in the DC Universe and decided to tie in the Queen family somehow in the pilot with the newspaper article - almost as a way of legitimizing the "world" of the show to the audience. Comic fans see the Queen headline and are like, "WOW. Oliver Queen perhaps? They really are in the Comic Universe, maybe this won't just be Rosewell or EFC with some alien teen named Clark and bald dude named Lex who just happen to become enemies someday and all."

My guess is as the show went on they needed a way to tie things together, and to make greater use of the season 4 arc that most fans disliked - even though it was ment to setup the Fortress so it wasn't just some magic, witchcraft filled b-story like it sometimes get a bad rap of being.

[MozartRequiem]

"The thing that amazes me the most is the article Lionel is seen holding in the Pilot. It's the very first thing we see in the show on Earth. Could they really have planned the Queens' disappearance & its ties to the overall storyline that early? It would be amazing if it can be proven. I think with Jeph Loeb being part of the team back then, it may be possible since I don't think Al/Miles would have known who Ollie Queen or his parents are/were without Loeb."

I think that'd be amazingly well-thought out if they did that on purpose, and something tells me maybe they did, because that article just seemed so big and epic, being one of the first shots of the entire show, you know? However, Loeb wasn't a part of the team back then, I don't think. I think he became a part of the team with season two's "Red", but I could be wrong.

"Another interesting thing I noticed was a comment by Lionel to Lex after he showed him that drawing of the Veritas logo that Patricia gave back to him. Lionel said something like "Aren't you afraid that you'll end up like you always thought". I thought that was a reference to him being Sageeth. But why would Lionel tie Veritas with the Naman legend? Wouldn't he basically give away the purpose of Veritas to Lex by associating it with Sageeth?""

I think he said something more along the lines of, "Perhaps you should look at it as a reminder of what you could've become." To me it felt like more of a jibe at Lex's lost soul than anything else, sort of like, "this painting is a symbol of your youth and how you could've continued on to be a good person, but you chose not to be." That's how I saw it at least, but interesting theory about Segeeth. I really hope they bring back the whole Naman and Segeeth thing soon!

"I still don't get why Lionel was chosen as an emissary of Jor-El if he was ultimately going to be evil. Perhaps just by his interaction with the elements? (Transference, Commencement) and then subsequently being made an Oracle for Jor-El. I think in some twisted way Lionel thinks he is doing the right thing, but his old ways still rule him. It's just in recent years Jor-El's influence has caused a downturn in his shady behavior until the past several months (including the whole thing in Promise)."

Yeah, I don't think Lionel was chosen by Jor-El. I think it was mere coincidence that he was holding the elements at the time in his hands. As far as Jor-El's influence, that's an interesting theory. My theory is that it was more of a human interaction that helped Lionel to try to change. I think his interaction with Martha and Clark has helped inspire him to be a better man. John Glover has even commented on how much Martha has touched a part of his soul that he never knew before. I have this theory that Lionel had a plan of some kind to use Clark's secret to his advantage, and that's why, in "Reckoning," we see him acting so smug and MB-like around Jonathan, because he was sort of blackmailing him. But after Jonathan's death, Lionel felt guilty for being the cause of it, and grew closer to Clark and Martha, and as he became closer to them, their goodness started to rub off on him. Glover commented about Lionel's transformation in season five, "Lionel's getting to a place where he can be part of a loving family, and not be the center of the universe anymore."

So I think that Lionel really does care about Clark, and really does want to be a better man, but he still struggles with his darkness and his manipulative tactics.

[susangail]

So I think that Lionel really does care about Clark, and really does want to be a better man, but he still struggles with his darkness and his manipulative tactics.

Agreed. Sometimes I think that Lionel doesn't quite know how to do (whatever) the un-manipulative way. He goes back to what he knows.

[LexLuv180]

Yeah that was an evil thing Lionel did. Hey at least he could have made it out of blue K. At least it would'nt have killed him.

I don't think anyone knows where to find BlueK now. The phantom had some they got from Drakker (which Lionel either doesn't know about him, or how to find him), but that was destroyed.

I think Lionel was trying to protect Clark but went on a screwed up way to do it.

[Nerial]

I think that Clark's influence on Lionel has been incredible. It's like Lionel had been enlightened by Clark and Jor-El's signifigance to the world. Lionel wanted to be more than the MB he had been, but in the end, he ended up hurting the person he loves and admires because he's still a greedy, controling man.

I have been waiting for Jonathon's warning to come true, and it finally happened. I was nervous it wouldn't, because that would make his death somewhat pointless. He died trying to protect Clark from Lionel, and had a heartattack. To say that Jonathon merely lost his temper because he misunderstood Lionel in the barn, makes him look hot-headed, ignorant, and that he ended up just killing himself. I'm so glad that's not true.

This episode was terrific on a number of levels, and that point is one of the gems of it.

[smallvillelogan]

I don't think there would be enough blue-K around anyway.

Whether AlMiles and the writing crew were thinking of Veritas back during the Pilot or not, that scene where Lionel looks at the paper saying the Queens died takes on a whole new meaning now. Before, it looks like Lionel is casually observing big news; now, it looks like Lionel is satisfied that his plan to kill them had been realized.

I don't know exactly why Lionel wants Clark all to himself, but my guess it that his shady character tempts him to use Clark and his powers for his own gain and purpose. However, ultimately, after being the emissary of Jor-El, I think Lionel will protect Clark in the end, especially in front of Lex, if it does come to that point.

I think Jor-El used Lionel as an emissary because he somehow knew that Lionel understood that his son was coming to Earth.

I think that Lionel began to realize that Clark was the Traveler after 'Transference,' because he saw the good that came to be in his body. Then, after videotaping Clark saving Lana from the exploding warehouse in Season 5's 'Lockdown,' I think that's when he realized that the Traveler had indeed come to Earth.

[xrayvision]

This brings up another question--was the thing that Lionel showed Jonathan really related to the Lockdown explosion or could it be Veritas-related? I don't think Lionel will be proven to be evil anymore in the end. Instead, I think he may have shown something that was Veritas-related to Jonathan, and because it caused Jonathan's death, it led him to use the tactics he did in Traveler (the facility & cage). So what I'm saying is that Lionel perhaps did what he did because he felt Jonathan's reaction would also be that of Clark's if he exposed everything to him and that Clark wouldn't let him explain.

[smallvillelogan]

This brings up another question--was the thing that Lionel showed Jonathan really related to the Lockdown explosion or could it be Veritas-related? I don't think Lionel will be proven to be evil anymore in the end. Instead, I think he may have shown something that was Veritas-related to Jonathan, and because it caused Jonathan's death, it led him to use the tactics he did in Traveler (the facility & cage). So what I'm saying is that Lionel perhaps did what he did because he felt Jonathan's reaction would also be that of Clark's if he exposed everything to him and that Clark wouldn't let him explain.

So you're saying that Lionel tested what Clark's reaction would be by showing it to Jonathan, as to see if it would get him mad enough that he would die protecting his son? To see that if Jonathan got upset, than he better be ready for Clark?

Do you think that Lionel showed Jonathan the plans for the facility or something?

Man, that's another scene in addition to a lot of Season 4 that I better re-watch.

[xrayvision]

Perhaps he did. I'm not saying he did or didn't, but throwing the possibility out there.

[Radioflyer]

Well they probably planned on having Lionel tied to the Queens' disappearance but all the other things probably came slowly. The realized they had all these threads in the series that seem to vaguely tie together and then retroactively created the Veritas backstory from there. Probably the first time they seriously started think of things being tied together was Season 4.

It is hard to see what Lionel's motivation was to protect Clark. He did only put him in a cage after Veritas started contacting him again. But you could sort of tell he was stretching the truth when he was talking to Clark. I still don't get why Lionel was chosen as an emissary of Jor-El if he was ultimately going to be evil. Perhaps just by his interaction with the elements? (Transference, Commencement) and then subsequently being made an Oracle for Jor-El. I think in some twisted way Lionel thinks he is doing the right thing, but his old ways still rule him. It's just in recent years Jor-El's influence has caused a downturn in his shady behavior until the past several months (including the whole thing in Promise).Ditto. "Said the Scopion to the Fox" Lionel's true nature prevails while Jor-El's influence lessens. Or maybe it's a touch of Jor-El's influences as well.

[xrayvision]

He did only put him in a cage after Veritas started contacting him again. But you could sort of tell he was stretching the truth when he was talking to Clark. I still don't get why Lionel was chosen as an emissary of Jor-El if he was ultimately going to be evil. Perhaps just by his interaction with the elements? (Transference, Commencement) and then subsequently being made an Oracle for Jor-El. I think in some twisted way Lionel thinks he is doing the right thing, but his old ways still rule him. It's just in recent years Jor-El's influence has caused a downturn in his shady behavior until the past several months (including the whole thing in Promise).

He had to be lying when he said Veritas tried to contact him again. There was nobody left in Veritas to contact him. Maybe he meant Patricia, but he knew that she was only there to meet Clark (the traveler).

[Rimmer66]

no way! Not on Smallville, there must be some sort of mistake

LOL ! :D

----- Added 3 Minutes later -----


But he never said why he put him in a kryptonite cage. How could that protect him?


#1 It was hinted or mentioned at the end - he wanted to protect Clark - after getting all those letters (beginning of episode)

#2 Why Kryptonite - because he knows Clark's weakness - and he obviously didn't want to tell Clark - Also by the way he arranged the FAKE sell off of Clark shows he did not mean to harm him - but if you think about it, and what Clark said to him at the end, is he really helping Clark or is he thinking of his interest and wanting Clark for himself.....this could get interesting.

I mean one minute the want you to believe he's Clark's friend, and another that he is conspiring - but one thing for sure, it would not be in his best "interest" to harm Clark, after all he can use him to his benefit.