Finally Someone tells Clark right to his face that was he does is inconciderate

[Theshadow129x]

and selfish. I told you he doesn't care and Thats exactly what green arrow confirmed to us all. Clark's expression said it all.

[Girardin]

I actually think that Clark is totally right with the whole Lana thing. Clark always looks out for everyone else, heck, the whole reason he went to the fortress and got trapped there was to save everyone during the eclipse. He's right, Lana is supposed to know him best, and considering that she didn't see anything wrong with the sudden change in his personality, and how much she loves Bizarro more than Clark, he has a right to feel awkward and angry about the situation.

Oliver was half-right. Clark shouldn't be sitting around on the farm. However, he's been stuck in ice for a month, and the past few days or so (between Persona and Siren) there haven't been any immediate threats. He's been trying to readjust to the life that's changed while he was trapped.

[xrayvision]

Clark has been selfish quite a few times, but Ollie shouldn't be pointing it out. It's not cool having another hero guest star in a show about Clark becoming Superman only to trash talk him even though it's true. Ollie has his flaws as well.

[Theshadow129x]

I actually think that Clark is totally right with the whole Lana thing. Clark always looks out for everyone else, heck, the whole reason he went to the fortress and got trapped there was to save everyone during the eclipse. He's right, Lana is supposed to know him best, and considering that she didn't see anything wrong with the sudden change in his personality, and how much she loves Bizarro more than Clark, he has a right to feel awkward and angry about the situation.

Oliver was half-right. Clark shouldn't be sitting around on the farm. However, he's been stuck in ice for a month, and the past few days or so (between Persona and Siren) there haven't been any immediate threats. He's been trying to readjust to the life that's changed while he was trapped.

Clark cares only for himself. All he does is pine and whine he doesnt save the world like Ollie does, he only wants to save the people that are in his life. wtf kind of hero is that? he does it so he wont be alone. I hate it. and yeah he has been stuck in ice but it hasnt gotten him off the farm and stop some mugger from getting to some helpless woman nor is he helping Ollie bring Lex to justice.

[Superboy2]

I agree with what Ollie said to him.

[pharaoh8]

actually everyone said exactly what was needed to be said to that person they were speaking to. ollie to clark, clark to ollie, lana to clark, clark to lana, lana to lionel, lionel to lana.

[sabi908]

The only impediment in Clark's journey now is Lana...which is wut makes him a domestic or whatever Ollie was referring to.

[jimmyolsenblues]

When I first heard green arrow was coming to smallville I thought it was mistake.
Boy was I wrong.
I love Ollie telling Clark, what do you do ? you sit on your couch, who do you help.
Ollie is the man.

[LoveHurts38]

Well, I am glad GA told Clark that.

[clana4everfan2]

Green Arrow really told Clark hahah ! LOL! I still love both heheh :) Green Arrow spin off please starring Justin Hartley! :D

[kentfamily]

I loved what Ollie said to Clark I think Clark took in what Ollie had said, Its true, he sits on his AS* in Kansas and saves his friends but not the world and all along Lana has said the same thing to Clark (Wrath) and (Action) "You could do so much with this"(implying his powers) Lana's words in Wrath. Saving the world thats what he should be doing.

End the show already. We dont need a season 8. A new show should come out of it.

[Clana4Life]

I did not like Clark in this episode. Or rather I did not like the way he was written. The lines were so terrible that TW came off looking like a bad actor. No wonder, it's not much you can do with lines like those. I felt like he regressed back to high school in this episode. "She liked him more than me." Whine, whine.

[minerva73]

I agree with what Oliver said, but I disagree too. Sure Clark stays on the farm and all, but he's helped a lot of people during his stay in Smallville. About 100 episodes, he's helped or save someone.

Without Clark being in Smallville this season Rachel could have died, Chloe could have died, Kara could have died, Lana could have died, Lionel could have died, that little boy and his dad/grandpa could have died (in Bizarro) and many others. Clark should get out and help out more, but he's learned a lot from his time in Smallville which would help him in the future. And he still is learning.

[Clana4Life]

Totally agreed KentFamily. Bring on a show with Ollie.

[Sarah J]

everythin that was said needed to be said
Green Arow was right Clark needs to get off his butt and help out
the only reason he is stayin around is cause of Lanna and the farm, he needs to let go
untill very recently I was a major Clanna fan as I have been since the very first epi., but now I think that Lanna is holdin Clark back.

[Clana4Life]

Clark is holding Clark back. Lana told him she didn't want to be the reason he was staying. She even said that he could help the world with his powers. Clark's a big boy. IF he wants to stay on the farm and do his thing, then that's his choice. Not her fault.

[niki]

I agree with what Oliver said, but I disagree too. Sure Clark stays on the farm and all, but he's helped a lot of people during his stay in Smallville. About 100 episodes, he's helped or save someone.

Without Clark being in Smallville this season Rachel could have died, Chloe could have died, Kara could have died, Lana could have died, Lionel could have died, that little boy and his dad/grandpa could have died (in Bizarro) and many others. Clark should get out and help out more, but he's learned a lot from his time in Smallville which would help him in the future. And he still is learning.

I'm agreeing with so many of your comments that I've read tonight so far!

Especially in the last few episodes, I've seen Clark really being pushed into that, "Maybe you should venture farther out from the boundaries of Smallville" but at the same time, it's being emphasized that it is important that he stays there, at least for now. So I give Oliver's comment some merit, but I do think that Clark has more than one reason to still stay on the farm.

[SVilleGal03]

When I first heard green arrow was coming to smallville I thought it was mistake.
Boy was I wrong.
I love Ollie telling Clark, what do you do ? you sit on your couch, who do you help.
Ollie is the man.

I actually pumped my fist when he said that... :D :lol:

[svtwamedfan05]

Its nice to see these characters come into Clark's life and show him tough love. Its about time someone keeps on Clark about becoming something better than he is. My mom was like "Abby he's talking about your man" and "I was like good. That's exactly what he needs right now. Clark needs alittle slapping around to focus on something greater than himself"

[Ilovebeinglost]

As much as I love Clark I have to agree with what Ollie said to him.

Get off that comfy clana couch and do something besides wait for problems to show up at your door.

He can do all kind of things in the world and then return to Smallville if he's needed there

[freefall]

Oliver is simply trying to deflect the issue; Clark was worried about Chloe, there's nothing selfish about that.

[BadToad]

I don't mind what Ollie said, but I think its completely wrong to discount everything we've SEEN Clark do up to this point. Obviously the construct of the show keeps Clark tied to Smallville, so I think its a bit ridiculous to bring characters onto the show to chide Clark for something that the construct of the show demands.

[Lara Lane]

I don't mind what Ollie said, but I think its completely wrong to discount everything we've SEEN Clark do up to this point. Obviously the construct of the show keeps Clark tied to Smallville, so I think its a bit ridiculous to bring characters onto the show to chide Clark for something that the construct of the show demands.

But every good Clark's done, he's done it because the situation crossed his path, but when has he been a proactive defender? And yes, he's tied to Smallville but he is "faster than a bullet" and can go virtually anywhere 'to do good' and be back in Smallville, or wait, he can start dong some good on his own on his own Town. Anyway, what Ollie said was necessary for his development (I hope we'll see some of it after all :p).

[SweetOne]

I love Ollie telling Clark, what do you do ? you sit on your couch, who do you help.


I actually pumped my fist when he said that... :D :lol:

ME TOO!! LOL It was so exhilarating to watch someone say everything to Clark that (most of us) have been wanting to say to him. Yelling at Clark through the TV doesn't work very well!! :p So when Oliver called him on his frustratingly "stagnant" life, I was over the moon. I wanted to give Ollie a big KISS!!:)

I don't think Clark is "learning" from his time in Smallville. His life and how he approaches it is no different from several seasons ago. He makes the same stupid decisions over and over again. He has not made any effort to propell his life FORWARD to the future. And like other posters have stated it beautifully.....


Get off that comfy clana couch and do something besides wait for problems to show up at your door.


But every good Clark's done, he's done it because the situation crossed his path, but when has he been a proactive defender?

[lexs&os]

Yes, it was a really good episode for characters being *called-out* on their choices etc. I was thrilled when GA said that to Clark and Clark knew he was right and that was very apparent to me.

[Guidron]

Clark seems to just flip flop on this. Sometimes he is completely selfless and sometimes he's completely selfish. I don't know if it's poor writing or very good writing. I mean, if you were a young adult working through all of the stuff that Clark goes through, would you handle it any better?

[ClareKent]

I have to agree that Ollie totally owned Clark on that one, he was so right about what he said, because he has the right to, but not Lana, she should keep her mouth shut :mad:

[heromyth]

I agree with what Oliver said, but I disagree too. Sure Clark stays on the farm and all, but he's helped a lot of people during his stay in Smallville. About 100 episodes, he's helped or save someone.

Without Clark being in Smallville this season Rachel could have died, Chloe could have died, Kara could have died, Lana could have died, Lionel could have died, that little boy and his dad/grandpa could have died (in Bizarro) and many others. Clark should get out and help out more, but he's learned a lot from his time in Smallville which would help him in the future. And he still is learning.

That's dead on. Also, keep in mind that Clark will live forever and he'll go on helping people for millennia after Oliver’s gone, that Clark’s progression toward becoming the intergalactic defender of Earth has been slow is irrelevant; Clark’s got all the time in the world and then some to fulfill his destiny, Oliver’s got one lifetime and the impetus fueling his sense of urgency is to a small degree selfish—to make a difference while he still has some breath left to enjoy the fruits of his efforts. Clark’s work will literally never be finished, evil never sleeps and every generation that Clark delivers will be succeeded by another that won’t fully appreciate or learn from the lessons his heroism will attempt to instill. Clark will have to repeatedly pull humanity back from the brink of extinction. If Clark seems slow to embark on a mission of this magnitude or if the preparation leading up to it seems belabored or repetitive that’s understandable. Hero’s aren’t perfect during their embryonic, developmental stages; they are in fact a reflection, a microcosm of who they’ll eventually rescue, in this case, all of humanity—a species as dull as sheep, never learning from their collective or individual histories, thoughtlessly stumbling into one calamity after another, sound familiar? Clark isn’t supposed to fully remind us of Superman right now; he’s supposed to be a “type”, an archetypal symbol of the flawed, wayward and yet rare, transcendently precious human race—past, present and future. Heroes must overcome in themselves the very same deficiencies that bind their damsels in distress. Oliver couldn’t possibly fathom the breadth of Clark’s role on the Earth; the problem is that right now, Clark can’t either. Every hero’s journey includes a period of anonymity or obscurity before the world knows their name along with a period of solitude (Christ’s childhood and 40 day trial in the wilderness spring to mind) and Clark’s learned about all he can while toiling in the anonymity afforded by a tiny, nondescript, agrarian town, the FOS is the logical and necessary next step he’ll have to take and it should happen by this season’s finale.

[j-kent]

It was simply a heat of the moment argument. Frustrated, Ollie didn't mean it as Clark is just worried about others...simply releasing his inhibitions he feels toward Clark...he just feels Clark is limiting himself and with his vast powers feels that the world needs him..he's expressed this before to Clark...it's just that Clark hasn't found that yet- grown up- whatever you wanna call it...Clark isn't ready just yet...this is why the show is still Smallville and not Superman.

[All about Clark]

I agree with what Ollie said to him.

I do not. Clark has had a full plate in dealing with Kara, Jor-el, and the phantom this season. I don't see him as lounging at home, but having to carefully think what is best. Not to mention he spent a month trapped in the fortress.

I think until Ollie has walked a mile in Clark's shoes, he does not have the right to tell him he's not up to parr. It's one thing if he keeps asking when Clark is ready to join him, and quite another to say he is failing.

[Superboy2]

Except Clark could have left when the Phantom was gone. He told Ollie he needed to fix the problem he created.

[All about Clark]

That's dead on. Also, keep in mind that Clark will live forever and he'll go on helping people for for millennia after Oliver’s gone, that Clark’s progression toward becoming the intergalactic defender of Earth has been slow is irrelevant; Clark’s got all the time in the world and then some to fulfill his destiny, Oliver’s got one lifetime and the impetus fueling his sense of urgency is to a small degree selfish—to make a difference while he still has some breath left to enjoy the fruits of his efforts. Clark’s work will literally never be finished, evil never sleeps and every generation that Clark delivers will be succeeded by another that won’t fully appreciate or learn from the lessons his heroism will attempt to instill. Clark will have to repeatedly pull humanity back from the brink of extinction. If Clark seems slow to embark on a mission of this magnitude or if the preparation leading up to it seems belabored or repetitive that’s understandable. Hero’s aren’t perfect during their embryonic, developmental stages; they are in fact a reflection, a microcosm of who they’ll eventually rescue, in this case, all of humanity—a species as dull as sheep, never learning from their collective or individual histories, thoughtlessly stumbling into one calamity after another, sound familiar? Clark isn’t supposed to fully remain us of Superman right now; he’s supposed to be a “type”, an archetypal symbol of the flawed, wayward and yet rare, transcendently precious human race—past, present and future. Heroes must overcome in themselves the very same deficiencies that bind their damsels in distress. Oliver couldn’t possibly fathom the breadth of Clark’s role on the Earth; the problem is that right now, Clark can’t either. Every hero’s journey includes a period of anonymity or obscurity before the world knows their name along with a period of solitude (Christ’s childhood and 40 day trial in the wilderness spring to mind) and Clark’s learned about all he can while toiling in the anonymity afforded by a tiny, nondescript, agrarian town, the FOS is the logical and necessary next step he’ll have to take and it should happen by this season’s finale.

Now I'm more certain then ever you are a writer or a producer of the show. I thought so in your post yesterday.

I don't agree that Clark should be this slow in helping others he doesn't know. We saw him more proactive in Combat and I really like him stepping up even if he did it because he was upset about Lana. I can also see the weight that Jor-el places on Clark and that too would impede his willingness to join Ollie. I think the problem is how slow Clark has been in coming into his own. It's like the writers give him one step forward, 2 steps back instead of a slow and easy consistent progress.

[supes0]

That's dead on. Also, keep in mind that Clark will live forever and he'll go on helping people for for millennia after Oliver’s gone, that Clark’s progression toward becoming the intergalactic defender of Earth has been slow is irrelevant; Clark’s got all the time in the world and then some to fulfill his destiny,

But the people he could be helping right now don't have that kind of time to wait.

"The fierce urgency of now" to quote MLK.


the FOS is the logical and necessary next step he’ll have to take and it should happen by this season’s finale.

He'd do better by traveling the world.

I never cared for Donner's (Superman:The Movie) training scenario. I much prefer how they handled it in comic verse. Clark leaves Smallville after high school, travels the world. He saves people at the same time learns his limitations, the languages of all the different peoples, their cultures and customs, and faces failure.

[ClarksGal]

actually everyone said exactly what was needed to be said to that person they were speaking to. ollie to clark, clark to ollie, lana to clark, clark to lana, lana to lionel, lionel to lana.

ITA!

[All about Clark]

Except Clark could have left when the Phantom was gone. He told Ollie he needed to fix the problem he created.

Don't forget that it was Jor-el who said to stay and watch over Kara. Clark was simply doing what his father asked of him for once. I do think Clark has learned his lesson regarding Jor-el. When he obeys things work out OK and when he doesn't there's a consequence.

[SVfan4ever]

I do not. Clark has had a full plate in dealing with Kara, Jor-el, and the phantom this season. I don't see him as lounging at home, but having to carefully think what is best. Not to mention he spent a month trapped in the fortress.

I think until Ollie has walked a mile in Clark's shoes, he does not have the right to tell him he's not up to parr. It's one thing if he keeps asking when Clark is ready to join him, and quite another to say he is failing.

I agree. Ollie has no right to judge Clark. Ollie hasn't gone through a quarter of what Clark has in his life. I can understand Ollie wanting Clark to be more proactive, hell so do I, but he has not nor will he ever have to deal with things that Clark will.

[Clana4Life]

Now I'm more certain then ever you are a writer or a producer of the show. I thought so in your post yesterday.

I don't agree that Clark should be this slow in helping others he doesn't know. We saw him more proactive in Combat and I really like him stepping up even if he did it because he was upset about Lana. I can also see the weight that Jor-el places on Clark and that too would impede his willingness to join Ollie. I think the problem is how slow Clark has been in coming into his own. It's like the writers give him one step forward, 2 steps back instead of a slow and easy consistent progress.

Yeah, I think a lot of the writers read these posts and take ideas from us. So I'm in full agreement with you, All about Clark. It's so weird seeing the exact same things we've said on these forums appear on an episode and I'm mean word for word VERBATIM. I'm glad that the writers and producers visit these forums so regularly, but they are going to have to start paying us, since it's obvious they use our words and story ideas.

[xrayvision]

But every good Clark's done, he's done it because the situation crossed his path, but when has he been a proactive defender? And yes, he's tied to Smallville but he is "faster than a bullet" and can go virtually anywhere 'to do good' and be back in Smallville, or wait, he can start dong some good on his own on his own Town. Anyway, what Ollie said was necessary for his development (I hope we'll see some of it after all :p).

He was proactive in earlier seasons before he got so close to Lana. The best example is Shattered. If you watch that again, you will see how he was closer to being Superman then than he is now. In season 4 they started pairing him off with Lois so they could satisfy Clois shippers and it started chipping away at the great character building they did with Clark. Then the next season, he was all about Lana. The following season after that was another Lana-centric season for Clark and plus, his screentime was drastically cut to make room for Ollie. Season 7 is all about Lana again for Clark.

The main problem with Clark has been the way he's been written. They can't have him speeding all over the world since the show is titled Smallville. I would like to see him running around at the minimum every other episode, but I doubt it will happen. It's one of the limits of the show. The biggest problem is that Al/Miles have to tie Clark down to Lana because that's what they think is successful. But all it results in is finding ways to make Clark not accept his destiny, and the only way to do that is by having him make mistakes over & over & over again and keep repeating them.

[umm]

I actually think that Clark is totally right with the whole Lana thing. Clark always looks out for everyone else, heck, the whole reason he went to the fortress and got trapped there was to save everyone during the eclipse. He's right, Lana is supposed to know him best, and considering that she didn't see anything wrong with the sudden change in his personality, and how much she loves Bizarro more than Clark, he has a right to feel awkward and angry about the situation.

Oliver was half-right. Clark shouldn't be sitting around on the farm. However, he's been stuck in ice for a month, and the past few days or so (between Persona and Siren) there haven't been any immediate threats. He's been trying to readjust to the life that's changed while he was trapped.


Oliver is completely right! Clark is certainly doing his share to make the world a better place, but he could still do more, if just accepted the fact that his destiny lies further than a country-life-style bliss with Lana!

[kentfamily]

^^^
Lana is not the one holding him back. Clark is holding Clark back. He is still holding on to what Lana was, as a girl. He is growing to understand that Lana has changed. Even Chloe mentinoned that Lana is not the same girl from high school and then Clark says," I dont want to talk about it". I think Lana is the one that taught him how to feel and understand emotions. If you watch the whole picture you would see that.
She did say that Bizarro's relationship was easier no complications. Who wants complications!! Its true about Clark and his self righteous expectations of Lana, she was right. No one can live up to it. Thats why his relationship with Lois in the future will work out. You bring what you have learned from past experiences such as friendships, relationships,etc. So yes Clark was being a PIG headed creep. Its all his fault with his insecurities of Lana. She did try hard for their relationship to work. Seven years of it. The itch is coming.;);)

[xrayvision]

^^^
Lana is not the one holding him back. Clark is holding Clark back. He is still holding on to what Lana was, as a girl. He is growing to understand that Lana has changed. Even Chloe mentinoned that Lana is not the same girl from high school and then Clark says," I dont want to talk about it". I think Lana is the one that taught him how to feel and understand emotions. If you watch the whole picture you would see that.
She did say that Bizarro's relationship was easier no complications. Who wants complications!! Its true about Clark and his self righteous expectations of Lana, she was right. No one can live up to it. Thats why his relationship with Lois in the future will work out. You bring what you have learned from past experiences such as friendships, relationships,etc. So yes Clark was being a PIG headed creep. Its all his fault with his insecurities of Lana. She did try hard for their relationship to work. Seven years of it. The itch is coming.;);)

I get what you're saying. I think the best way to explain it is by saying Al/Miles are holding Clark back using their twisted ideas of what Lana should be as a character as the means of doing it.

[Theshadow129x]

I respected everyone's opinions in this forum, and some of you are right that Clark is holding Clark back because he chooses to be with Lana. but the thing is that Clark doesn't see the bigger picture. Ollie said that while Clark is at home cuddling with Lana he's out there making a difference in the world, and he has sacrificed loved one just for the job he is doing. When Ollie said this it rang a bell in his head. Ollie has sacrificed his love for Lois just to bring down the bad guys, Clark simply isn't willing to do anything of the sort just to make a difference for people he doesn't know. Sure you can call Clark a hero, but I don't anymore. He doesn't help strangers that need help, he waits for trouble to cross his path because it usually comes from Lana or Chloe or someone he knows, not someone he is associated with. I agree with Xrayvision when he said that Clark was closer to being Superman in the earlier seasons. He didnt hesitate to help others that he didn't know, but the closer he got to Lana the more selfish he became. The fact that this relationship is still alive after all the terrible things that go wrong amazes me. The creators of the show have really reduced the character to rubble.

[jetsfan1970]

ollie was dead on with his criticism of clark. he spends so much time trying to be something that he is not he needs someone to push him into being what he is to become in the movies it was his dads death but not here so hopefully it will be a combination of oliver and to a point the martian manhunter who see his potential and the hopefully renewed threat of brainiac who is more than wiling to travel the earth doing what he needs to do to fulfill his programming knowing clark will not leave his little cocoon of comfort

[jack1487]

Now I'm more certain then ever you are a writer or a producer of the show. I thought so in your post yesterday.

I don't agree that Clark should be this slow in helping others he doesn't know. We saw him more proactive in Combat and I really like him stepping up even if he did it because he was upset about Lana. I can also see the weight that Jor-el places on Clark and that too would impede his willingness to join Ollie. I think the problem is how slow Clark has been in coming into his own. It's like the writers give him one step forward, 2 steps back instead of a slow and easy consistent progress.



One thing that comes to mind is that Clark is what 20, 21 and I have not meant to many young people at that age who can say for a fact that they are ready to save the world.

After all Superman was around 30 plus before he does, take on that job. And like one poster said Clark is going to around a he** of a lot longer then any of the super hero's that are alive today. Give him some time and he will get there..

Just my 2cents!

Take Care,

Jack :rolleyes:

[Theshadow129x]

One thing that comes to mind is that Clark is what 20, 21 and I have not meant to many young people at that age who can say for a fact that they are ready to save the world. After all Superman was around 30 plus before he does, take on that job. And like one poster said Clark is going to around a he** of a lot longer then any of the super hero's that are alive today. Give him some time and he will get there..

Just my 2cents!

Take Care,

Jack :rolleyes:



thats beside the point. Clark knows he has a destiny. he has a calling. are you telling me what he does now doesnt matter because he'll live forever? thats ridiculous. you can live for 100 years, does that mean you should not finish school until your about 40 or 50? clark can make a difference now! there are people that need help, you're telling me its okay people die and get hurt now because he'll make the decision to save people like that in 10 years? no. its just completely wrong to think like that. this is the problem with this show and the problem with some of its viewers. everyone thinks its okay that he's not making a difference for right now because he'll get to it someday while lower beings with less abilites than him do a smidge of the work he can do. thats bull crap and im completely offended at that comment.

I mean thats like saying you see a kid playing in a street with a ball and theres this car with a drunk person aiming right for the kid. is it okay for you to just stand there even though you have more than enough time to run over there and save him, you just stand there and watch it happen or turn your back to it knowing the kid will more than likely die? no you will more than likely act and try to save the kids life even at the expense of your own. knowing something bad is happening and then doing nothing makes you less of a hero if one at all. after the kid gets hit you vow that later on in your life you'll make the decision to do something instead of standing there and do nothing doesnt help the fact that you could have saved the kid at that time. really its retarded to think like that. I dont think people understand.

Clark has the ability to save millions, no im sorry, billions of people! yet he chooses not to. he's stuck on the farm with lana. its very selfish and he's supposed to be the most selfless person in the world. he's a messiah for a new age of humanity, giving up much for a greater cause. but the way some of the people try to justify his selfish actions is sickening especially when they say things like it doesnt matter because he'll live forever. first of all it does matter because he can save those people and secondly he wont live forever he does age but slower than the average person. its not a matter of what will happen later, though its what he is doing now that matters! at 22 years of age you should have a very good idea of who you are and where you are going. what kind of mark are you willing to leave on the world. The character doesn't look at himself and ask these questions, he's still worried if his girlfriend will be here tomorrow and thats a small segment of the big picture here.

What ollie said to Clark should have been the most inspiring thing another hero could say to another. It was harsh but it was needed. Oliver is putting his life on the line to make sure that people with abilities and without abilities are alive to see another day and arent being tortured or wronged. Oliver gave up his life with Lois to make a difference in the world. Clark went back home to try to work things out with Lana and had little regard to work with the JL and help strangers that he didnt know but needed his assistance/help.

People use the whole Donner concept so much on these boards like that is the testament of Superman, like he never tried to help others until he was 30 and thats crap. the donner films have truly tarnished the superman lore to a huge degree. while the movies (or rather movies) are good, its not what the character is about. first of all him becoming superman is a choice, not him being a by product of jor-els will. secondly read the story "Superman:birthright" and i dont care how you read it via download or buying it or renting it but check it out and tell me what you think of it. It shows clark kent wanting to use his abilities by choice to help people before he wore the uniform in primary colors. I love that comic with a passion becase it showed why he loved life and wanted to preserve it. he said it was a beautiful thing and its why he wanted to make a difference based off of that. what superhero is about just that alone? i swear people that watch this dont know him and dont know crap about the character besides those damn donner films and dont have a true love for the character a damn whole.

He can make a difference now, the show ruined his character, theres no true coming back from the way he has been depicted on Smallville. He's selfish, ignorant, oblivious, and stupid. The character is more than that.

and im not talking about kal-el more and not bad clark more. I'm talking about more than that. he's a great being and the true reason why i have so much hope in a great many things in this world. Superman represents the best humanity has to offer themselves. if more humans were like him, without the abilities, we'd live in a better society. a better world. we'd have a better tomorrow. its why he got the name "the man of tomorrow." because he's forging a better future today.

I'm sorry i'm rambling but I want people to know why i'm so against this show now. all of you people that are on here and just watch it because you like the movies do me a favor and seriously do research on teh superman lore and read "Superman:birthright" at least. it'll bring clarity to what he's about.

[Alexander III]

Ollie dissed him good!
Clark, u suck! Join the league man!

[litew8]

I didn't care much for the Nanny Ollie.
If I were Clark, I would have put him in his place pronto!
Clark should have stood up to GA and got in his face.
Clark should have told GA - I'd like to see you walk a mile in my shoes.
Then give him a push. All the while staring him down like the fool GA is.

[Theshadow129x]

This is a joke right? i cant believe people would say that. Walk a day in Clark's shoes? the guy makes no attempt to set aside his own personal problems to help others the only problem he has is that witch lana. he can touch and have sex with Lana, Bizarro confirmed that. the problem is how the character is regressed week after week after week.

[litew8]

This is a joke right? i cant believe people would say that. Walk a day in Clark's shoes? the guy makes no attempt to set aside his own personal problems to help others the only problem he has is that witch lana. he can touch and have sex with Lana, Bizarro confirmed that. the problem is how the character is regressed week after week after week.

No joke.
Clark should have put Nanny Ollie in his place. Got up in his face.
Nanny Ollie doesn't have any right to judge Clark/Superman.
Who does he think he is?
He's a nobody compared to Superman.
And Clark should have made him aware of that.
Nanny Ollie doesn't have to contend with Clark's reality, so he (GA) should keep his big trap shut.

[jazel]

No joke.
Clark should have put Nanny Ollie in his place.
Nanny Ollie doesn't have any right to judge Clark/Superman.
Who does he think he is?
He's a nobody compared to Superman.
And Clark should have made him aware of that.
Nanny Ollie doesn't have to contend with Clark's reality, so he (GA) should keep his big trap shut.

:lol:
yeah POOR Clarkie, has it so rough.:p
LOVE seeing ANYBODY, throwing truths at CK's delusional life......with ALL he has and can do, it's always about Lana w/ him. some hero.... *yawn*

[litew8]

^ Okay. Ya'll want to debate?
Throw any of your other "heroes" into Clarks shoes (a SUPER-HERO).
What would have happened to them thus far?
Hint: They'd be dead.


:lol:

[jazel]

^ Okay. Ya'll want to debate?
Throw any of your other "heroes" into Clarks shoes.
What would have happened to them thus far?
Hint: They'd be dead.

nope....too tired to debate.:lol:
what about CK's promise, to join the League, after he caught all the phantoms ?
guess he's too busy eating Lana's blueberry pancakes, to worry about other things.:lol:

[litew8]

nope....too tired to debate.:lol:
what about CK's promise, to join the League, after he caught all the phantoms ?
guess he's too busy eating Lana's blueberry pancakes, to worry about other things.:lol:

Clark/Superman doesn't take orders from anybody. That's why he won't be joining the JLA anytime soon - because some Nanny Boy (GA) tells him to. :lol: Clark/Superman will do what he wants, when he wants - on his own terms, nobody elses. One of the reasons why he comes across as bull-headed. He's an alpha-male, not a sissy like GA.

[cksidekick]

look, if ANYONE Clark knows has the right to give him a hard time about it, it's Oliver...yeah, he will never fully understand what it's like to have Clark's burdens...but Clark will never fully understand what it is for a mortal hero (with no powers by the way) to go out every day to fight the good fight...and YES trying to understand and respect that is a very Superman thing to do...

it's a classic Bruce/Clark relationship...but Smallville does it with Oliver...pretty well IMO...but right now it isn't both of them giving it their all...it's Oliver getting bruzed, and sliced, and shot, while Clark is at home watching TV with Lana...then he just Bursts into Olivers home because he's angry that Chloe (his sidekick) has more gutts than he does...it realy is time for Clark get off his butt...had he been on the team, HE would have been there to protect Chloe...and Oliver has big enough beans to tell him to his face...

[Theshadow129x]

Clark shouldnt need anyone else to push him but Smallville messed him up so much that he needs a push and a big one at that to shake him out of apathy.

[83kaL]

I think that, that is exactly what he needs!

[simplemath]

I agree clark is holding clark back... Well, the fact that clark is still not doing any superhero stuff should be blamed on him alone... Sure, there are the lana factors but it was clear that lana was willing to let him go for the sake of others.... He was the one who wanted to stay in smallville. Although what ollie say might have been true but in the past few months he has been trying to cope up with the idea that lan has been with bizaro all this time so ollie couldnt blame him that much... He wasnt actually on his couch all day as he may have implied he is trying to find brainiac remember??

[kryptonaidxh]

I agree with what Ollie said to him.

I agree with Ollie, he always has been more mmature than Clark. at least he doesn´t fool himself leaving an awful and insane relationshipt that holds him back in a farm whe he has the power of helping the people, not the 3 or 4 person that he cares about.
and Olliver has reason in that point.:)

[Lara Lane]

then he just Bursts into Olivers home because he's angry that Chloe (his sidekick) has more gutts than he does...it realy is time for Clark get off his butt...had he been on the team, HE would have been there to protect Chloe...and Oliver has big enough beans to tell him to his face...

By the way, does anyone else find hypocritical of Clark to admonish Ollie over endangering Chloe when he does it on a regular, abusive basis ? :D

[msleggie]

I can go either way with this, Clark at times can be a bit selfish, I mean, who isn't? But compared to other people, Clark really isn't that bad. Clark does care a great deal about others, and he helps a lot of people, it's important 4 him to move away from Smallville, but 4 right now, he's needed there. But then again, Clark can always go back to Smallville if need be, I don't know, like I said, I can go either way on this.

[Lostfan588]

Clark really was more heroic in the early seasons and would use his powers in a heartbeat to help those in need, and take down the bad guys. He was also very merciful which I admired...not that he doesn't make the occassional save now and then but now he's just like suffering from depression and doesn't want to leave his house or something. Seriously, what happened? LOL

[CK&CK]

I didn't care much for the Nanny Ollie.
If I were Clark, I would have put him in his place pronto!
Clark should have stood up to GA and got in his face.
Clark should have told GA - I'd like to see you walk a mile in my shoes.
Then give him a push. All the while staring him down like the fool GA is.

This comment is ridiculous......JMHO.

Kryptonite or Arrogance.....which would be more deadly to the man of steel? Not that Clark is arrogant much......but the statment by litew8 would require one very arrogant Kryptonian.........Clark/Superman may not be the sharpest Super Hero in the mix......but pushing other Super Heroes around like there nothing next to him? All I can say is that at that point Krytonite won't be his only Achilles heel.

[litew8]

Arrogance = your opinion......JMHO.
If some sissy boy wants to flap his gums in my face, you bet he'd soon recognize.
If you think they have a right to do so, without attitude, pacifist-sissy. Not much of a super-anything in my book. Besides, GA is merely a "hero" - as per Chloe.
Maybe you should recheck your facts.

[CK&CK]

^ Okay. Ya'll want to debate?
Throw any of your other "heroes" into Clarks shoes (a SUPER-HERO).
What would have happened to them thus far?
Hint: They'd be dead.


:lol:

You mean dead like Clark would have been himself if

-His Parents had not pulled out that Kryptonite bullet when he was shot by a crazed....(non-super powered individual I might add) Krypto Freak Vigalante in "Extinction".

-When he took a bullet in the stomach because he was an idiot wanting to give up his powers simply because he got rid of 2 Kryptonians a few episodes earlier.....like nothing bad would ever happen again (rolls eyes).


-Then there's the time he took a Knife in the stomack as well ("Talisman" I think)......both of his Daddys had to come to the rescue with some out of the blue miracle save.

-Or how about when that Invisible dude buried our favorite IQ deprived hero with a piece of Kryptonite.......Chloe to the rescue.

-Then there are the times when he's not necessarily in Mortal jeopardy.....but if they wanted to kill him.....it's a done deal.....like:

"Solitude"........Chloe had to save his butt.

"Hypnotic"........Chloe had to save his butt again.


There's probably more "Smallville" examples.....but I think people get the idea.

But how about the Animation world:

-"The Batman"....Batman & Robin have to save Superman from the mind control of Lex Luthor.

-Justice League......the episode "Wild Cards".....the Joker, with a brilliant unorthodox plan, has them all beat except for Batman.....who just barely saves himself and the JLU.

-Justice League Unlimited.....Batman is injured badly while saving Superman from a Kryptonite tiped Nuclear missle........(pretty damn cool the way Bats did it to).

-Then there's Superman the Animated Series.....yes, that's right Bat saves the Big Guy on his own series.......Superman returns the favor of course....but only after Bats has saved him from Raz As Goul.........Oh and from the Joker as well (3 part Episode....."Worlds Finest".......of course Supes saves Batman to....but again it's Batman saving Supes that is the catalyst that allows Superman to return the favor.

Now.....Is that what you mean by "They'd be Dead" ?

[litew8]

^
Oh, I'm sure whoever else you are attempting to compare would have lived, right? wrong
You really missed the point didn't you?

Fact remains, the simpleton heroes would BE DEAD.

[CK&CK]

^
Oh, I'm sure whoever else you are attempting to compare would have lived, right? wrong
You really missed the point didn't you?

Fact remains, the simpleton heroes would BE DEAD.

That's you're opinion......but quite frankly, I think you missed the point on what makes an individual....or a Super Hero really great.......even if they are fictional. Enjoy your view of it....and all I can say is that I'm glad thats not my view.



P.S. Ironic that Smallville is a show about the ultimate "Simpleton" who just happens to have ultimate powers. Yep, that's true Irony.

[Theshadow129x]

That's you're opinion......but quite frankly, I think you missed the point on what makes an individual....or a Super Hero really great.......even if they are fictional. Enjoy your view of it....and all I can say is that I'm glad thats not my view.



P.S. Ironic that Smallville is a show about the ultimate "Simpleton" who just happens to have ultimate powers. Yep, that's true Irony.

Thank you!! I dont know why litew8 would say something like that when its people like ollie and chloe and others that have come to save Clarks life more than anything. simpletons? i dont think so. Clark is dimwitted about a great many things. to say others are dimwitted and he is just plain stupid. what show have you watched for the past 7 years? because if its this show and Clark is considered smart then you must be watching things from another universe because its not this universes smallville.

[cksidekick]

Oliver is simply trying to deflect the issue; Clark was worried about Chloe, there's nothing selfish about that.

deflect the issue?

Clark puts her in danger on a regular basis...there is no need to yell at Oliver...Chloe is a big girl...are you implying she should ask for Clark's permission before she helps Oliver? When you get down to it, Clark wasn't invited to the party...it was none of his buisness...Oliver and Chloe can go do ANY job they want...whether he likes it or not...

[Dustmite]

Clark lashed out and Oliver retaliated. Oliver was right that Chloe is in danger with Clark by her side but it was obvious to me that Clark thought that Oliver couldn't take care of Chloe as well as he could.

There was some truth in what Oliver said but everyone forgets that Clark has been saving people since day 1. It may just be people in Smallville but the fact remains that a lot of people would be dead without Clark's help and that includes the majority of the league.

Clark and Oliver have led very different lives and have very different motivations. Oliver chooses to be different, in part to atone for the way he was when he was younger. Clark on the other hand was born different and for a very long time had no idea why. He struggled with his powers and yet was still saving lives.

Clark is by no means selfish and I think Oliver knows that. There are other such as Dax-Ur who could have done what Clark goes onto do but they don't. It not what Clark is that makes him special, it is who he is.

I want Clark to choose the life he does, not because he is berated into it by others but because he feels that it is his calling.

[litew8]

That's you're opinion......but quite frankly, I think you missed the point on what makes an individual....or a Super Hero really great.......even if they are fictional. Enjoy your view of it....and all I can say is that I'm glad thats not my view.



P.S. Ironic that Smallville is a show about the ultimate "Simpleton" who just happens to have ultimate powers. Yep, that's true Irony.

You just contradicted yourself without my help. Ultimate Powers and simpleton are not synonymous. Great job. I'm glad I don't go around thinking that humans are equal to super-heroes during my use of imagination. How watered down that must be. Boring.

[Maddie Van Horn]

nope....too tired to debate.:lol:
what about CK's promise, to join the League, after he caught all the phantoms ?
guess he's too busy eating Lana's blueberry pancakes, to worry about other things.:lol:
hmmm lana's pancakes must be realllly good....

[litew8]

Clark lashed out and Oliver retaliated. Oliver was right that Chloe is in danger with Clark by her side but it was obvious to me that Clark thought that Oliver couldn't take care of Chloe as well as he could.

There was some truth in what Oliver said but everyone forgets that Clark has been saving people since day 1. It may just be people in Smallville but the fact remains that a lot of people would be dead without Clark's help and that includes the majority of the league.

Clark and Oliver have led very different lives and have very different motivations. Oliver chooses to be different, in part to atone for the way he was when he was younger. Clark on the other hand was born different and for a very long time had no idea why. He struggled with his powers and yet was still saving lives.

Clark is by no means selfish and I think Oliver knows that. There are other such as Dax-Ur who could have done what Clark goes onto do but they don't. It not what Clark is that makes him special, it is who he is.

I want Clark to choose the life he does, not because he is berated into it by others but because he feels that it is his calling.

Great post Dustmite. You partially explained why I think Clark should have put Nanny Ollie in his place by getting up in his face.

Also, durring the discussion Clark and Oliver had, it seemed like Nanny Ollie was scared. After he was telling Clark those things, it looked like Nanny Ollie was going to pee his pants. Clark calmly walked over to the window and promptly ignored the sissy - rather than letting his anger get the best of him. A bigger man. My other choice of action - see up thread. :lol:

[jazel]

Clark has flaws, nothing wrong w/ his friends pointing it out to him. Chloe has no problem doing it. She can getaway w/ it, but Ollie can't ? PLUS Ollie knows he can be killed out there, wish more people would get in his face. I'm hoping Pete will in Hero.:)

[Dustmite]

Clark has flaws, nothing wrong w/ his friends pointing it out to him. Chloe has no problem doing it.

Chloe tells Clark that he is a hero, her hero and she sees the potential of what he can do and in fact sees on almost a daily basis what he does do. She doesn't tell him he is selfish, quite the opposite in fact.


She can getaway w/ it,

Really? I hated Chloe getting in his face in Promise.


wish more people would get in his face. I'm hoping Pete will in Hero.

I hope he doesn't. I don't want to see the hero of the show being bashed by every guest character. I would rather they invest that time in showing how Clark comes to the decisions he does.

[litew8]

Oh jazel, so it's okay for everyone and their grandmother to get in Clark's face, but not ok for Clark to do it to them - with even more conviction. What goes around comes around.

[CK&CK]

You just contradicted yourself without my help. Ultimate Powers and simpleton are not synonymous. Great job. I'm glad I don't go around thinking that humans are equal to super-heroes during my use of imagination. How watered down that must be. Boring.

Contradiction? Sorry, but that's a hefty load of B.S..........You forget that we are talking about Smallville's version of Clark Kent/Young Superman.......so I reiterate......Clark is a Simpleton (talking about his brain here in case it's over your head).......with ultimate powers......I don't know why you think that having Super Powers automatically excludes someone from being a "Fool".......and in Clark's case, well it's obvious that he's been making the same mistakes over and over since Season 1........so No.....there is no contradiction.

But if you want to reduce things to a simpleton level for your understanding......then No.....Green Arrow, Batman, or Black Cannary can't do anything like walking through Molten Lava just because Superman can do it......obviously (rolls eyes) he can do stuff that they can't, but to me that just means he's invulnarable, and depending on the situation he may or may not be more suited to deal with what's at hand........simply having more Power doesn't make him a better Super Hero. And there have been countless situations in the DC Universe where other hero's have perceivered, and Supes has not. I seem to recall that in a certain other Episode Number #11....."Justice" I believe....certain other heroes got the Job done, while saving Mr. Simpleton at the same time.

[jazel]

Chloe tells Clark that he is a hero, her hero and she sees the potential of what he can do and in fact sees on almost a daily basis what he does do. She doesn't tell him he is selfish, quite the opposite in fact.

Really? I hated Chloe getting in his face in Promise

I hope he doesn't. I don't want to see the hero of the show being bashed by every guest character. I would rather they invest that time in showing how Clark comes to the decisions he does.

Out of respect for Superman, I refuse to watch Promise......proposing to Shelby, sounded like the "highlight" of the epi.:lol:

Chloe is pretty honest w/ Clark concerning Lana, and I am glad for that. Chloe has called him on a number of things. I enjoy seeing her set him straight about somethings. Sorry, but Clark doesn't seem like much of a hero lately. Why did Jor-el freeze him ?

[CK&CK]

I don't want to see the hero of the show being bashed by every guest character. I would rather they invest that time in showing how Clark comes to the decisions he does.

Now this seems....to me......to be a better way of approaching this whole situation of Clark being bashed by a Super Hero Guest Star.......Unfortunately, Clark has been written in such a way that he frequently needs to have some sense slapped into him.........and usually Chloe is the one to do it.

[jazel]

Oh jazel, so it's okay for everyone and their grandmother to get in Clark's face, but not ok for Clark to do it to them - with even more conviction. What goes around comes around.

What because CK has super-powers, NOBODY can call him on his crap ? What about his promise to Ollie, about joining the League, when he rounded up all the phantoms ? That goes out the window, BECAUSE he'd rather play house w/ Lana.....SOME hero.:(

[litew8]

I don't know why you think that having Super Powers automatically excludes someone from being a &quot;Fool&quot;.......and in Clark's case, well it's obvious that he's been making the same mistakes over and over since Season 1........so No.....there is no contradiction.</p>You sure are a pesky little critter aren't you. With great(er) powers, comes great(er) wisdom/responsibilities. Something mere "heroes" could never understand. Thereby gives Clark/Superman all the more justification to put sissies in their place, when needed. The crap that you are attempting to reason with have nothing to do with Clark's personal choices. Everyone is intitled to live their own life without someone nagging them. And it isn't like Clark is doing NOTHING. That's my point. Nanny Ollie has no right. And in contrast to the things Clark has gone up against - those little heroes wouldn't surrvive. Therefore, they don't have the intellectual capacity to understand Clark's reality. Besides, I'm talking about Smallville, why do you continue to reference other media, irrelevant to the discussion? Is that the only way you can make a point? By making irrelevant references?

GA = Simpleton:

—Noun an ignorant, foolish, or silly person.
—Synonyms dolt, fool, numskull, blockhead, ninny, dope.

[jazel]

With great(er) powers, comes great(er) wisdom/responsibilities.

Those are Uncle Ben's words, from Spiderman.:lol:

[CK&CK]

</p>
You sure are a pesky little critter aren't you. With great(er) powers, comes great(er) wisdom/responsibilities. Something mere &quot;heroes&quot; could never understand. Thereby gives Clark/Superman all the more justification to put sissies in their place, when needed. The crap that you are attempting to reason with have nothing to do with Clark's personal choices. Everyone is intitled to live their own life without someone nagging them. And it isn't like Clark is doing NOTHING. That's my point. Nanny Ollie has no right. And in contrast to the things Clark has gone up against - those little heroes wouldn't surrvive. Therefore, they don't have the intellectual capacity to understand Clark's reality. Besides, I'm talking about Smallville, why do you continue to reference other media, irrelevant to the discussion? Is that the only way you can make a point? By making irrelevant references?

GA = Simpleton:

—Noun an ignorant, foolish, or silly person.
—Synonyms dolt, fool, numskull, blockhead, ninny, dope.

Hey I gave you examples both from other sources and from "SMALLVILLE" itself......but feel free to get on your knees and worship the Fool that is this Smallville's Clark Kent........as for me, I'll stick to admiring his noble qualities from Season 1 & 2......And Not the "FOOL" that he has become since then.

[litew8]

Those are Uncle Ben's words, from Spiderman.:lol:

:lol:

[CK&CK]

Those are Uncle Ben's words, from Spiderman.:lol:

Yeah, that's from Spiderman.

[jazel]

Hey I gave you examples both from other sources and from "SMALLVILLE" itself......but feel free to get on your knees and worship the Fool that is this Smallville's Clark Kent........as for me, I'll stick to admiring his noble qualities from Season 1 & 2......And Not the "FOOL" that he has become since then.

no offense to litew8, but I see things more like you do, and I appreciated all your insight.:)

[litew8]

Hey I gave you examples both from other sources and from "SMALLVILLE" itself......

You gave mortal examples, if I remember reading correctly. In what instance was there - that mere heroes were shown to have stopped enemies Clark has gone up against? There's no comparison. Mere heroes, like Nanny Oliver, would die instantly. They would never be capable of understanding the reality of saving the world. Sure, they think they are all big and bad, but it is a delusion. They are not considered SUPER-HEROES. They will never know the responsibility or intelect invovled in saving the world, in as much of a way that Superman does/will. And if the heroes are in a needed position to save SUPERMAN, you bet money - that is their job.

----- Added 3 Minutes later -----


no offense to litew8 :)

I don't care. :) We're still both from the Midwest.

[Dustmite]

Chloe has called him on a number of things. I enjoy seeing her set him straight about somethings


Clark has been written in such a way that he frequently needs to have some sense slapped into him.........and usually Chloe is the one to do it.

She also recognizes what he does do:

"I think you're so amazing. You save people's lives and take zero credit for it. To me you're more than just a hero... you're a superhero."

[CK&CK]

no offense to litew8, but I see things more like you do, and I appreciated all your insight.:)


Thanks

[Theshadow129x]

litew8, be quiet. you're calling everyone else thats telling Clark to fulfill his destiny a simpleton yet he's the idiot that continuously gets ready to destroy the world since the end of season 4 with not collecting the crystals like Jor-el told him to or it will unleash a great force, he told him to to train because the force arrived and he stopped training to save lana from plated glass, he nearly unleashed zod, then he did unleash zod, then he let out the phantoms, then he let one of the phantoms copy his dna, got his tail kicked, the phantom was killing innocent people, Clark released Zor-el when told not to, Zor-el created a Blackout that could have killed humans in days, and yet Clark's not a simpleton? I'm sorry but he is an idiot. its not TW fault nor the characters though, its the way they write him. but you're saying he's not dumb but everyone else is because they know he could do so much more with himself? yeah....no!

[litew8]

^
:lol: The world would be destroyed by now if it wasn't for Clark. Understand.

And he hasn't even become Superman yet. :lol:

[CK&CK]

litew8, be quiet. you're calling everyone else thats telling Clark to fulfill his destiny a simpleton yet he's the idiot that continuously gets ready to destroy the world since the end of season 4 with not collecting the crystals like Jor-el told him to or it will unleash a great force, he told him to to train because the force arrived and he stopped training to save lana from plated glass, he nearly unleashed zod, then he did unleash zod, then he let out the phantoms, then he let one of the phantoms copy his dna, got his tail kicked, the phantom was killing innocent people, Clark released Zor-el when told not to, Zor-el created a Blackout that could have killed humans in days, and yet Clark's not a simpleton? I'm sorry but he is an idiot. its not TW fault nor the characters though, its the way they write him. but you're saying he's not dumb but everyone else is because they know he could do so much more with himself? yeah....no!

That's the real tragedy here.....that he's written as an IDIOT just so they can prolong the series. Even worse.......it's caught on celluloid forever.....future generations will all get to see Al & Miles' pathetic version of Clark Kent in action.....that is.....taking one step forward & 3 steps backward..........making the same mistake over and over.....and never learning from them.

I liked it so much better when Chloe & Clark could bounce ideas off each other....they were both written as intelligent........but Chloe seemed to keep developing as an intelligent character.....while Clark? Well......what more can be said.

[Theshadow129x]

the world has been put in dangers way because the idiot lacks the mental capacity to be responsible and do what people tell him to do and not to do. if Jor-el tells him not insert the blue crystal into the console because it'll put the world in danger, then dont do it. what happened? he did it anyway! thats just a big dumb A$$. yeah she he prevented the world from being destroyed but he still put the world in harms way! understand?!

[cksidekick]

lightw8,

you don't read comics books do you?


i ask because the Clark/Superman you describe just does not exist...well, except maybe as a member of The Justice Lords...Superman would NEVER have the attitude you seem to think he should have...he has more respect for other SUPER Heros...Oliver Queen especialy...Smallville's answer to Bruce Wayne...

[litew8]

the world has been put in dangers way because the idiot lacks the mental capacity to be responsible and do what people tell him to do and not to do. if Jor-el tells him not insert the blue crystal into the console because it'll put the world in danger, then dont do it. what happened? he did it anyway! thats just a big dumb A$$. yeah she he prevented the world from being destroyed but he still put the world in harms way! understand?!

The kid is learning, fact remains - the world has been saved by Clark Kent - not yet Superman. Can the same be said for other heroes? I think not, never. (On Smallville)

you don't read comics books do you?
i ask because the Clark/Superman you describe just does not exist...well, except maybe as a member of The Justice Lords...Superman would NEVER have the attitude you seem to think he should have...he has more respect for other SUPER Heros...Oliver Queen especialy...Smallville's answer to Bruce Wayne...

True. I don't read comic books. I'm not saying that Clark/Superman should have an everlasting attitude towards others. Just in certain instances, like this episode. Oliver said his peace to Clark once before. No need to be a nag. Clark should have put him in his place. It's good enough that Oliver looked scared durring their discussion. The GA looked like he was about ready to pee his pants because of the things he was saying to Clark. Clark walked away, knowing he should just ignore the nag.

[KSiteTV]

Please do not talk about other posters here. Re-read the board rules.

[cksidekick]

Funny, I don't recall Jor-El telling him NOT to insert the blue crystal into the console. The kid is learning, fact remains - the world has been saved by Clark Kent - not yet Superman. Can the same be said for other heroes? I think not, never. (On Smallville)

----- Added 2 Minutes later -----



True. I don't read comic books. I'm not saying that Clark/Superman should have an everlasting attitude towards others. Just in certain instances, like this episode. Oliver said his peace to Clark once before. No need to be a nag. Clark should have put him in his place. It's good enough that Oliver looked scared durring their discussion. The GA looked like he was about to pee his pants because of the things he was saying to Clark.


okay, fair enough...

but in this episode Oliver jumped in his S**T because he treated him like he does Lex...just bust through the door and start talking trash...acting like his GROWN sidekick isn't allowed to go to work with out him...and scared or not, Oliver takes less crap from him than Lex did...:rolleyes:

i understand, when it comes to Phantoms, Zod, The Biz and on and on, Oliver has no idea Clark is involved...yeah, Clark should tell him "I get a lot more done than you think Green Bean..." but he certainly can't act as though Oliver and/or Chloe don't have the right to do what they do...without Clark acting like a Jealous ex boyfriend, it would have have been a different conversation...

[litew8]

feel free to get on your knees and worship the Fool that is this Smallville's Clark Kent.

You know, I don't appreciate everthing that has gone on with Smallville. My main reasoning is defending the 'character' of Clark/Superman and how it might relate (where possible) to the 'character' created on Smallville. When there are little heroes attempting to belittle the Clark/Superman 'character', I'll stand-up. Whether it be from writers or posters in a forum.

[CK&CK]

lightw8,

you don't read comics books do you?


i ask because the Clark/Superman you describe just does not exist...well, except maybe as a member of The Justice Lords...Superman would NEVER have the attitude you seem to think he should have...he has more respect for other SUPER Heros...Oliver Queen especialy...Smallville's answer to Bruce Wayne...

lightw8's Superman = Superman of the Justice Lords.

Justice Lord Superman definitely didn't take anything from anybody.

Great Observation cksidekick

What was that 2 part Justice League episode called?......."A Better World"? And the World was definately at stake!


Batman "They're as strong as we are.....but they're willing to Kill"

Supes "What are you saying, that we have to kill? I won't cross that line"

Batman "How else can we beat them?"

Supes "You're the Smart one....you figure it out!"

Batman "We can't do it......not unless we cross some kind of line"

(Which leaves Superman pondering Batman's advice......and that line crossing, though making for some hard choices.....is what enabled them to win.....while still managing to keep their Super Hero integrity intact)

*and before anyone starts saying the Batman was condoning Killing......he wasn't condoning anything.....he was simply thinking outside the box......and it worked....it forced them to come up with a better way.

[litew8]

^ Whatever CK&CK. Read KryptonSite's post above.
I never said anything about killing. Now you're slanting the discussion.
You are stretching what I've said to fit your own logic against me.

[cksidekick]

^ Whatever CK&CK. Read KryptonSite's post above.



yes,

im not shure who K-Site was specificaly talking to, but please don't quote me so you can speak about someone else in the third person...

[CK&CK]

^ Whatever CK&CK. Read KryptonSite's post above.
I never said anything about killing. Now you're slanting the discussion.
You are stretching what I've said to fit your own logic against me.


Dude, the only logic that would have applied here is that the World is at stake, and Superman by himself (as powerful as he is) wouldn't be able to do it "alone".......but quite frankly, it's my favorite part of the episode. The only shoulder to shoulder comparison that I may have intended is that Justice Lord Superman doesn't take anything from anybody......and that he really does think that he's superior........the fact that he's willing to kill is just..."incidental"......as Hannibal Lector would say.

[Brizzle]

When I first heard green arrow was coming to smallville I thought it was mistake.
Boy was I wrong.
I love Ollie telling Clark, what do you do ? you sit on your couch, who do you help.
Ollie is the man.

Haha and the funny thing is he is not even sitting on the couch with his girl, he is sitting on the couch by himself while Lana is at work.

Ollie knows what to say to Clark. And it is true.

[litew8]

Dude, the only logic that would have applied here is that the World is at stake, and Superman by himself (as powerful as he is) wouldn't be able to do it &quot;alone&quot;.......but quite frankly, it's my favorite part of the episode. The only shoulder to shoulder comparison that I may have intended is that Justice Lord Superman doesn't take anything from anybody......and that he really does think that he's superior........the fact that he's willing to kill is just...&quot;incidental&quot;......as Hannibal Lector would say.Whatever. I NEVER said Clark/Superman could or should do anything alone.
You're trying to put words in my mouth. Things I never said or suggested.

[Theshadow129x]

dude litew8 be quiet. go back and watch Blue. Jor-el did tell Clark not to insert the crystal into the console and he did it anyways he told him to stop thinking with emotion and with more logic and he didnt. the thing is that you dont know what you're talking about. the thing is that this Clark kent on the show in the present time is selfish. he saves the same people over and over again because he doesnt want to lose them, yet when it comes to him just walking the street and stopping some poor old lady from being mugged or killed this guy is no where to be found. Chloe went to help oliver because he's doing good and trying to make a difference because Lex is killing and experimenting on people. you're gonna tell me he isnt making a difference from what he is doing with the rest of the league? please! thats bull crap. one night that GA is on the streets its another night that someones life has been changed. the same cant be said about Clark because he's too worried about what is next for him and his girlfriend. gosh I swear this show and those damn donner films messed up peoples thought process when it comes to superman. Clark is an idiot compared to his comic book counter part and no im not talking about superman im talking about Clark Kent before superman in the comics. like i said before, go read Superman birthright and see what kind of difference that Clark Kent made in the world compared to the clark kent on television then I will give what you say some sort of credibility.

[litew8]

dude litew8 be quiet. go back and watch Blue. Jor-el did tell Clark not to insert the crystal into the console and he did it anyways he told him to stop thinking with emotion and with more logic and he didnt. the thing is that you dont know what you're talking about. the thing is that this Clark kent on the show in the present time is selfish. he saves the same people over and over again because he doesnt want to lose them, yet when it comes to him just walking the street and stopping some poor old lady from being mugged or killed this guy is no where to be found. Chloe went to help oliver because he's doing good and trying to make a difference because Lex is killing and experimenting on people. you're gonna tell me he isnt making a difference from what he is doing with the rest of the league? please! thats bull crap. one night that GA is on the streets its another night that someones life has been changed. the same cant be said about Clark because he's too worried about what is next for him and his girlfriend. gosh I swear this show and those damn donner films messed up peoples thought process when it comes to superman. Clark is an idiot compared to his comic book counter part and no im not talking about superman im talking about Clark Kent before superman in the comics. like i said before, go read Superman birthright and see what kind of difference that Clark Kent made in the world compared to the clark kent on television then I will give what you say some sort of credibility.

First off, STOP telling me to be quite quiet (thanks to Theshadow129 for spell-checking). Secondly, you seem to want to dismiss the fact that when Clark Kent (not Superman yet) saves the ENTIRE world (BILLIONS of people) from peril - that he is not doing anyone any favors. Yea, right. You then go on to suggest that some little hero like the GA is somehow more significant, has more credibility because he saves little old ladies from muggers and that he has every right to belittle Clark. Not once, but TWICE (that I am aware of). That is more skewed than me suggesting that the GA should keep his big trap shut. You must not understand the significance of Clark Kent VS. Superman and why he creates a secret identity.

I believe the first Superman movie explains that. If you didn't detest the movies so much, maybe you'd have noticed the commentary that his father provided on baby Clark's trip to Earth. Clark Kent / Superman is NOT a God, and CANNOT rule the people. He has a secret identity so that he can LIVE A NORMAL LIFE without CONSTANT demands from people like GA. That means that HE DOES NOT go around CONSTANTLY rescuing kittens from trees on a DAILY BASIS like GA does. That's why Clark Kent IGNORES what that nag GA tells him. Clark is in the process of managing his two worlds. When it is time for him to be Superman (the FIRST SUPER-HERO), he will be saving hundreds of thousands of lives at a time - compared to the kittens GA the nag saves. Because Clark/Superman has larger objectives than little heroes, I'm almost certain that is why he manages to find ways of hooking up with Lois Lane in the future, without distroying his personal life - LIKE GA has already done.

If I was wrong about Jor-El giving Clark some big speech, OH WELL - it doesn't have anything to do with the root topic anyhow.

[Theshadow129x]

First off, STOP telling me to be quite. Secondly, you seem to want to dismiss the fact that when Clark Kent (not Superman yet) saves the ENTIRE world (BILLIONS of people) from peril - that he is not doing anyone any favors. Yea, right. You then go on to suggest that some little hero like the GA is somehow more significant, has more credibility because he saves little old ladies from muggers, and that he has every right to belittle Clark. Not once, but TWICE (that I am aware of).That is more skewed than me suggesting that the GA should keep his big trap shut. You must not understand the significance of Clark Kent VS. Superman and why he creates a secret identity.

I believe the first Superman movie explains that. If you didn't detest the movies so much, maybe you'd have noticed the commentary that his father provided on baby Clark's trip to Earth. Clark Kent / Superman is NOT a God, and CANNOT rule the people. He has a secret identity so that he can LIVE A NORMAL LIFE without CONSTANT demands from people like GA. That means that HE DOES NOT go around CONSTANTLY rescuing kittens from trees on a DAILY BASIS like GA does. That's why Clark Kent IGNORES what that nag GA tells him. Clark is in the process of managing his two worlds. When it is time for him to be Superman (the FIRST SUPER-HERO), he will be saving hundreds of thousands of lives at a time - compared to the kittens GA the nag saves. Because Clark/Superman has larger objectives than little heroes, I'm almost certain that is why he manages to find a ways to hook up with Lois Lane in the future, without distroying his personal life - LIKE GA has already done.

If I was wrong about Jor-El giving Clark some big speech, OH WELL - it doesn't have anything to do with the root topic anyhow.


First of all, i said quiet not quite. lol and secondly, im not dismissing the fact that Clark has saved the world, im dismissing the fact that you are saying that he's done it because he wanted to. So far the times he's saved the world were a direct result of his selfish behavior so he wants to right the wrong deed that he committed.

its like if you were young and you made a stain on your mothers carpet. you look down and you panic because you know you made the mistake at doing it, you try your best to clean up the mess. thats what its like for Clark when he saves the world. Its not like someone else made the stain and the carpet is messed up and because you see it you decide to clean it anyway because you and everyone in the house would be in trouble, that not the way Clark is thinking.

Clark so far has brought about the end of the world through selfish behavior. He wants to hold on to Lana, though he knows he can be out helping people in the he spends with her. If he chooses the former then he thinks he'll lose her so he won't go help out. thats his thought process which is completely selfish.

and you're also saying that what GA and the League does is little compared to what Clark is going to do? Please! That's bull! First off if you were a fan of any comics at all you'd see that they people in the league now actually aren't doing things that just effect the lives of one, they do things the effect the lives of many, the same as Superman. GA's League is actually stopping Lex from killing people and experimenting on them amongst other things, thing is there are so many things that have happened to them over the past year that we dont know how many people's lives have been changed just because they were there to stop Lex's schemes. You're telling me thats nothing compared to what Clark is doing?

:confused:You're right! they could never understand the trials and tribulations that come with bailing hay and seeing to Lana's every need. lol:p:


finally, I do know what Jor-el's commentary and rambling did say. Have you read the comics or at least the comic i've recommended then you'd know that Clark's disguise at the planet isn't to keep a social life to keep him from being a god like the movie said, its to keep him informed to know where he is needed. To know where he can make a difference, i mean after all it is a newspaper. The moves make it seem like he's there just because and dont say why he's at the planet to begin with which should be explained if singer does helm another sequel to the film franchise. but he's there to know where he is needed not to keep him to maintain a social life.

and The reason why im beginning to hate the films is because they make Clark look like he is the direct by product of what his father wants for him and Clark has little say in the matter. The current comics so a true theme of choice and him making a difference. No one has to make him do it nor do they say i would like you to do this, but he does it anyway, thats why i'm against what the movie said

Also this is why i was always against GA and others coming on to the show and talking about their Team, because people are going to think they are just heroes but not super heroes because superman isnt around yet. heres the thing, they are super heroes. You don't need to have super powers and fly to every country in a matter of seconds to put out a raging fire. its about being able to be there continuously to change a persons life forever and to keep putting ones life in harms way again to see that someone else gets the benefit like the last.

Yeah, sure Clark has saved the world, but him saving it on the show has been a direct result of his own selfish doings and he only wants to make up for his mistakes. Yeah he's saved people, but its people that he eithers knows or he feels like he has no choice in the matter to help them. (at least thats the way the show makes him out to be now seeing as when he was younger he saved people just because he could). I little boy in blue has alot of growing up to do before we can call him a super hero or a superman at that, also its hard to call him a hero due to how selfish his actions have been on the show since season 5.

[Lara Lane]

clark can save millions because he can, it is well within his abilities, GA saves less people at a time because he can't do more, yet he does all he can and he does it willingly.

Clark's had to save these people because, in the first place himself provoked the calamities from which he's saving them. GA saves them because he wants to, even if he has no obligation at all.

Being stronger, faster or having super powers do not turn people into heroes. It is our choices which make us what we really are.

Haven't you read the Harry Potter books?? :lol: :lol:

But well, we know that Clark will grow out of this selfish stage and will become a selfless, responsible hero. I just hope we'll see more of this side of him in future SV episodes.

[superpal1]

Clark has had enough people tell him he is selfish, he has seen the evil in the world, and yet he still sticks on the farm. It is time for him to start listening and start realizing his greater role in this world. It is time that he extends his role in the world, to saving that little old lady or helping out the JL on some side missions. I'm not talking full out Superman here, but a little less saving Lana, Chloe, Lois for the hundredth time would be nice.

[red_sun1938]

I thought Oliver's remark about Clark "playing house on the farm" was the best moment of the entire season. Maybe even the last 3 seasons outside of Chloe finding out. I laughed out loud upon hearing it. Even though he still turned down the League again, that had to hit home. Here's hoping the BDA wakes up and drops Lana like a bad habit.

[All about Clark]

First off, Clark is like 20 or 21 compared to GA's 29 or 30. There is no way you can compare the emotional and experience level and maturity of these 2 men. GA had his time of learning from his mistakes when he was young, and now Clark is going through this same period. GA wasn't GA at 21, he did it when he matured and figured out what it was he wanted to do. And now Clark is trying to figure himself out and to also figure out his role with Jor-el and Kara. These are both alone heavy issues for him and having Lana right now is probably very good in keeping him grounded. I don't think Clark needs to jump when Ollie comes calling.

Ollie has no idea what Clark's life is and really has no reason to make judgement on someone 8 to 9 years younger. I think Ollie is wrong in his statements. I think that Ollie is pushing Clark to help him, a selfish act that would help keep Ollie safe, and he knows it.

[Theshadow129x]

^ thats funny considering the fact that Victor stone is the same age as Clark and Bart Allen is younger than him too yet they are giving up their social normal lives that they could ahve or did have to see people being saved.

No they dont know what his life is like but the thing is that these are people that arent as powerful as him and are completely able to be killed and yet they are putting their lives on the line everyday to save people. Clark is either their age or older and yet he isnt willing to give up what he ahsright now for a single second. Its the problem with Smallville's Clark like i said, when he loses Lana he'll feel as though he doesnt have anything left so he might as well save the world as opposed to him choosing to do more than what he is now.

[litew8]

First of all, i said quiet not quite. lol and secondly, im not dismissing the fact that Clark has saved the world, im dismissing the fact that you are saying that he's done it because he wanted to. So far the times he's saved the world were a direct result of his selfish behavior so he wants to right the wrong deed that he committed.
Oh, did I mispell a word? My bad, your poor capitalization abilities must have distracted me. Aside from that, I never said that Clark "saved the world because he wanted to". I said Clark has saved the world because HE HAS, and HE CAN. Something the little heroes will NEVER be capable of. You are trying to put words in my mouth. Things I have never said or suggested.


Clark so far has brought about the end of the world through selfish behavior. He wants to hold on to Lana, though he knows he can be out helping people in the he spends with her (?). If he chooses the former then he thinks he'll lose her so he won't go help out. thats his thought process which is completely selfish.
So what? What do you want him to do? Drop everything because some nag tells him to? You want him to give up everything to become a slave to the public? Do you want him to eliminate all of the enemies of the world within a month - what would be left? Saving kittens from trees. Please.


and you're also saying that what GA and the League does is little compared to what Clark is going to do? Please! That's bull! First off if you were a fan of any comics at all you'd see that they people in the league now actually aren't doing things that just effect the lives of one, they do things the effect the lives of many, the same as Superman. GA's League is actually stopping Lex from killing people and experimenting on them amongst other things, thing is there are so many things that have happened to them over the past year that we dont know how many people's lives have been changed just because they were there to stop Lex's schemes. You're telling me thats nothing compared to what Clark is doing?
Uh, yea. Besides, I'm not talking about the comic. Your rationalizing seems to be stuck on comparing the comics (reality) to Smallville's reality. It doesn't work that way. They are not the same. Get over it. We are talking about SMALLVILLE, the TELEVISION SHOW.


finally, I do know what Jor-el's commentary and rambling did say. Have you read the comics or at least the comic i've recommended then you'd know that Clark's disguise at the planet isn't to keep a social life to keep him from being a god like the movie said, its to keep him informed to know where he is needed. To know where he can make a difference, i mean after all it is a newspaper. The moves make it seem like he's there just because and dont say why he's at the planet to begin with which should be explained if singer does helm another sequel to the film franchise. but he's there to know where he is needed not to keep him to maintain a social life.
See, I knew it. I make a good point and you reference something else to try and disprove it. So what if he ends up at the newspaper? He'll have access to the news and events either way. That doesn't change what I said up-thread. You make it sound as if the newspaper is his only means of knowing what is happening in the world. Haha. Heck, why doesn't he just drift in the stratosphere and listen to the world every minute of every day of every year? BECAUSE HE HAS A SECRET IDENTITY SO HE CAN HAVE A PERSONAL LIFE.


Yeah, sure Clark has saved the world, but him saving it on the show has been a direct result of his own selfish doings and he only wants to make up for his mistakes. Yeah he's saved people, but its people that he eithers knows or he feels like he has no choice in the matter to help them. (at least thats the way the show makes him out to be now seeing as when he was younger he saved people just because he could). I little boy in blue has alot of growing up to do before we can call him a super hero or a superman at that, also its hard to call him a hero due to how selfish his actions have been on the show since season 5.
"People that he either knows or he feels like he has no choice in the matter to help them?" Are you serious? That is bull crap. Really. Oh, and the REASON why he doesn't equate to SUPER-BOY's comics - because there's pending enfringment rights. Sorry, he cannot mimick the comics like you wish he would.


----- Added 4 Minutes later -----

^ thats funny considering the fact that Victor stone is the same age as Clark and Bart Allen is younger than him too yet they are giving up their social normal lives that they could ahve (?) or did have to see people being saved.

No they dont know what his life is like but the thing is that these are people that arent as powerful as him and are completely able to be killed and yet they are putting their lives on the line everyday to save people. Clark is either their age or older and yet he isnt willing to give up what he ahsright now for a single second. Its the problem with Smallville's Clark like i said, when he loses Lana he'll feel as though he doesnt have anything left so he might as well save the world as opposed to him choosing to do more than what he is now.

Funny that none of them have women in their lives. They seem to devote all of their time saving kittens from trees with GA. buahhahhahahaaaaa At least Clark will be able to manage two worlds and hook up with Lois Lane. Clark should have gotten up in GA face and told him to keep his big trap shut.

[SweetOne]

I thought Oliver's remark about Clark "playing house on the farm" was the best moment of the entire season. Maybe even the last 3 seasons outside of Chloe finding out.

Absolutely agreed. The most satisfying moment for sure. To hear Oliver "say it like it is"......well let's just say he's my new hero.:)

Oh....and keep up the good work Theshadow. I'm really enjoying your intelligent arguments. Also good post Lara lane.

[All about Clark]

^ thats funny considering the fact that Victor stone is the same age as Clark and Bart Allen is younger than him too yet they are giving up their social normal lives that they could ahve or did have to see people being saved.

No they dont know what his life is like but the thing is that these are people that arent as powerful as him and are completely able to be killed and yet they are putting their lives on the line everyday to save people. Clark is either their age or older and yet he isnt willing to give up what he ahsright now for a single second. Its the problem with Smallville's Clark like i said, when he loses Lana he'll feel as though he doesnt have anything left so he might as well save the world as opposed to him choosing to do more than what he is now.

Is this some kind of joke? Neither Victor nor Bart have anything like a Jor-el and Kara out there. They are both alone and joined Ollie because they could see him as a mentor and gave them purpose and a way to eat without stealing. Clark doesn't need these things from Ollie. The weight (destiny) Jor-el has placed on Clark is far greater than anything Bart and Victor have experienced.

The second joke you mentioned is that Clark is not willing to risk his life, which (OMG), have you not witnessed how many times Clark could have lost his life in doing the right thing.

It appears you are so unhappy that Smallville doesn't match the comics that you are ready to slam Clark for it. Please, try to deal with this realty, not a preconceived one of your own.

[litew8]

Is this some kind of joke? Neither Victor nor Bart have anything like a Jor-el and Kara out there. They are both alone and joined Ollie because they could see him as a mentor and gave them purpose and a way to eat without stealing. Clark doesn't need these things from Ollie. The weight (destiny) Jor-el has placed on Clark is far greater than anything Bart and Victor have experienced.

The second joke you mentioned is that Clark is not willing to risk his life, which (OMG), have you not witnessed how many times Clark could have lost his life in doing the right thing.

It appears you are so unhappy that Smallville doesn't match the comics that you are ready to slam Clark for it. Please, try to deal with this realty, not a preconceived one of your own.

NICE!

[Lara Lane]

Absolutely agreed. The most satisfying moment for sure. To hear Oliver "say it like it is"......well let's just say he's my new hero.:)

Oh....and keep up the good work Theshadow. I'm really enjoying your intelligent arguments. Also good post Lara lane.

Thank you :D and yeah, it was a satisfying moment, wasn't it? I actually pumped my fist up :p

[Cogito17]

Where did this notion that Clark is doing nothing but cleaning up his own messes come from? I think thats a fairly simplistic view of things. Clark has many abilities, but none of them include foreseeing the future.

Lets consider times when the earth was in jeopardy...

The second meteor shower came as a result of one of the stones being stained with human blood. Now, Clark was supposed to collect the stones, which he was working on. But was he supposed to somehow have foresight to see that Lana would be given a stone, be possessed by an evil witch, and then stab another human with said stone? Seems a little bit unfair to pin that on Clark.

The meteor shower, which happened due to the above event, brought the Brainiac and those 2 other Kryptonians. So, these threats to the earth really were not Clark's mess to clean up, but he did it anyways.

Next came Zod/Brainiac. Zod came in large part due to Brainiac, but Clark was presented with that knife to kill the vessel for Zod, Lex. Clark, then had the option to destroy Brainiac (the evil mastermind who tried to kill his mother), or Lex (his former best friend). It does not seem like a difficult decision, and again... Clark was not forewarned that using the dagger on Brainiac would release Zod. And, ultimately, Zod/Brainiac's appearance can be again, traced back to the initial meteor shower which was out of his control. (Not to mention Lex's involvement with Brainiac)

Obviously, Zod is back and he sends Clark to the Phantom Zone (God forbid, the guy who isn't even Superman yet have a tough time against the general who destroyed an entire race of Kryptonians). Now, what should Clark have done? Idly sat in the Phantom Zone while Zod destroyed earth? No, he escaped, which unfortunately brought the Phantoms to earth. But, yet again, how was Clark supposed to foresee the Phantoms being released?

Ultimately, its a chain of events where Clark did not foresee the consequences, stemming from an event (the 2nd meteor shower) that was brought about by yet another incident where he could not have foreseen what would happen. Is Clark wrapped up in these things happening? Yes, of course, but he is the main character, so it is to be expected. Seeing as Clark can't see the future, its pretty hard to hold him accountable for everything that has happened.

So, coming to the actual point of this.... Clark has saved the world several times from threats much more immediate and severe than the 33.1 facilities Green Arrow is handling. So, it does seem pretty out of line for Ollie to be lecturing/condescending to Clark. (To me at least)

[litew8]

Where did this notion that Clark is doing nothing but cleaning up his own messes come from? I think thats a fairly simplistic view of things. Clark has many abilities, but none of them include foreseeing the future.

Lets consider times when the earth was in jeopardy...

The second meteor shower came as a result of one of the stones being stained with human blood. Now, Clark was supposed to collect the stones, which he was working on. But was he supposed to somehow have foresight to see that Lana would be given a stone, be possessed by an evil witch, and then stab another human with said stone? Seems a little bit unfair to pin that on Clark.

The meteor shower, which happened due to the above event, brought the Brainiac and those 2 other Kryptonians. So, these threats to the earth really were not Clark's mess to clean up, but he did it anyways.

Next came Zod/Brainiac. Zod came in large part due to Brainiac, but Clark was presented with that knife to kill the vessel for Zod, Lex. Clark, then had the option to destroy Brainiac (the evil mastermind who tried to kill his mother), or Lex (his former best friend). It does not seem like a difficult decision, and again... Clark was not forewarned that using the dagger on Brainiac would release Zod. And, ultimately, Zod/Brainiac's appearance can be again, traced back to the initial meteor shower which was out of his control. (Not to mention Lex's involvement with Brainiac)

Obviously, Zod is back and he sends Clark to the Phantom Zone (God forbid, the guy who isn't even Superman yet have a tough time against the general who destroyed an entire race of Kryptonians). Now, what should Clark have done? Idly sat in the Phantom Zone while Zod destroyed earth? No, he escaped, which unfortunately brought the Phantoms to earth. But, yet again, how was Clark supposed to foresee the Phantoms being released?

Ultimately, its a chain of events where Clark did not foresee the consequences, stemming from an event (the 2nd meteor shower) that was brought about by yet another incident where he could not have foreseen what would happen. Is Clark wrapped up in these things happening? Yes, of course, but he is the main character, so it is to be expected. Seeing as Clark can't see the future, its pretty hard to hold him accountable for everything that has happened.

So, coming to the actual point of this.... Clark has saved the world several times from threats much more immediate and severe than the 33.1 facilities Green Arrow is handling. So, it does seem pretty out of line for Ollie to be lecturing/condescending to Clark. (To me at least)

NICE!

[Javierocker]

Just 2 put in my two cents, but Ollie is only going by what he sees. He doesn't know everything that Clark has been through and hence can only judge Clark based on what he knows about him. Ollie however does have a point, fact is that Clark does spend a lot of time sitting around on the farm with Lana until the world come falling down on his head. Could Clark have foreseen the consequences of things, no he could not however had he been more active, many of those consequences might not have occurred. If Clark had been actively searching for the stones from the beginning, Lana probably wouldn't have gotten her hands on it, and no 2nd Meteor shower. Same with Brainiac, once Clark discovered he was still out there he should been actively searching for him and perhaps could have stopped him before he had the chance 2 even unleash his plan. The Phantoms is the 1st time that I really see Clark becoming active, but that seemed 2 just be somewhat active, had devoted all his time 2 the Phantoms he might have gotten rid of them sooner and before Lex could even get near them. This is the problem I have with Clark, he might necessarily cause the mess, but his lack of action leads 2 it as he more then likely could have ended things before lex or anyone else could have even gotten involved. It would be one thing if he did not know these threats existed, fact is that he has been aware of them was still not very active in dealing and the same is true right now. But this is the problem with the show in general as if he was more active then there would be no real story arcs 2 go by. And since Smallville bases itself around these arcs, well the character of Clark Kent gets ruined as a result. Another problem that Smallville created was with the introduction of Jor-El. Fact is that before Jor-El appeared Clark was more on track with his destiny saving people because he had the power 2, then we get this whole Clark was destined 2 rule mankind. This of course made Clark fearful of himself and what he would become and Jor-El was no saint when he 1st appeared either. He tortures Clark and forces him 2 leave Smallville, he then forcibly sucks Clark into a wall and reprograms him and while some say he had no choice since Clark most likely wouldn't have listened he wasn't coming off as someone I would've listened 2 either. If they had stuck with the traditional Jor-El and have simply introduced him 2 his son and tell him of his destiny and his past, Clark might have stayed on track as their would have been nothing 2 fear. The Clark and Lana relationship would have been played out in high school like it was suppose 2 as Clark would have no fear of himself and fear of endangering Lana. And many of the things wouldn't have happened as Clark probably would have been listening 2 Jor-El, found the stones and should Brainiac have appeared anyway might have tracked and beaten him. But in the end it doesn't matter what potential Oliver, Lana, Chloe and Lionel all see in Clark, and what Jor-El tells him, if Clark doesn't want 2 give up his life for the greater good then no one can force him, Clark can live his life as he chooses and in the end he will choose 2 embrace his destiny and become Superman.

[TKFlash]

I think GL was right, Clark is the most powerful hero on the show and he does the least, I am not saying he has to hang up his personal life, I am just saying he could be a big help but he decides to sit there pinting over a female instead of listening those that steer him in the right direction.

[SweetOne]

But this is the problem with the show in general as if he was more active then there would be no real story arcs 2 go by. And since Smallville bases itself around these arcs, well the character of Clark Kent gets ruined as a result.

I've heard this argument MANY times. Clark has to work towards being Superman at a slow pace, taking his time accepting his destiny and resisting proactive work as a superhero for the sake of story arcs??? I don't think so.

If Clark decided that he could do more for people and tried to actively save lives in the city THIS would be him working his way towards his role as the official "Superman". I don't think "slowing his progression down" allows for more story arcs at all. I think the producers could make good storylines with a Clark Kent that isn't really sure what his role will be one day, but uses his innate sense of justice and goodness to help the people of metropolis. I'm not talking on the grand scale of Superman quite yet, but they could definitely make more of an effort to work Clark up to that with helping clean the streets up on a smaller scale. It would not even need to take up whole episodes. Just a scene here and there showing us that Clark is doing something to help people, because he knows it's right and he is capable.

Just because we (the viewers) would see that Clark wants to save people, would not mean that "Oh my goodness!" "Superman has arrived". He should want to AND try to, even before he IS Superman. Smallville is supposed to be the journey of Clark Kent becoming Superman, right?? Well I have not seen much progression (if any) in fact he has almost regressed from his destiny. Yes, it's not too much to expect that Clark would at first reject his role in coming to earth, it's not even too much to expect that he would try to put it off for a while BUT AT SOME POINT (which has long passed) he should have started to feel in his heart a growing (instinctual) desire to save/help the human race. And little by little he should have solidified his job at the DP and began proactively taking down evil. (even if it a mugging here or a kitten there)

We have seen 7 seasons of Clark fighting his great destiny....and we have what? ONE more season? So we are supposed to believe that Clark fights right up until he just "gives in" to it? I thought SV was supposed to give us an idea about what it was for Clark to grow into his role and I don't think they have done a very good portrayal. I think at some point, maybe around season 4(?), he should have begun to GRADUALLY embrace his destiny. And we could have watched him work swiftly and firmly to Superman status thoughout season 8, ending with him as "Superman". That is, I'm assuming that is what the producers had planned, ending Smallville with Clark Kent as Superman. As it is, in season 7 we have seen Clark recently throw a red cape carelessly on a fence post and walk in the opposite direction. This being symbolic that Clark Kent is STILL firmly opposed to his role. And we're expected to believe that he miraculously decides to do what is good and right and proactive and BECOME Superman in the span of ONE season (season 8)?

I'm just saying that they could have given us more of Clark Kent accepting his destiny without "sacrificing" storyline. So I don't like it when people say "well we wouldn't have 7 seasons if he HAD accepted his destiny". We would have had PLENTY of storylines even if Clark had been more active about moving towards his future as Superman.

[LoveLiving]

I thought Oliver's remark about Clark "playing house on the farm" was the best moment of the entire season. Maybe even the last 3 seasons outside of Chloe finding out. I laughed out loud upon hearing it. Even though he still turned down the League again, that had to hit home. Here's hoping the BDA wakes up and drops Lana like a bad habit.

He has not been sitting on the domestic couch, he's been dealing with kryptonian relatives, then putting the world in danger, then alternatively saving it, then being frozen to a popsicle for it - every other episode... Not exactly domestic bliss... Smallville is about the journey not the destination, we all know he'll get there. Plus - in Wrath LANA told him just about the same thing (..and all you did was hiding out on a farm), but of course if it comes from her then it's just dismissed...

[litew8]

He has not been sitting on the domestic couch, he's been dealing with kryptonian relatives, then putting the world in danger, then alternatively saving it, then being frozen to a popsicle for it - every other episode... Not exactly domestic bliss... Smallville is about the journey not the destination, we all know he'll get there. Plus - in Wrath LANA told him just about the same thing (..and all you did was hiding out on a farm), but of course if it comes from her then it's just dismissed...

I agree. I think one too many characters on the show have said the exact same things. All of which are not true. Clark's father (Johnathan) and his mother (Martha) have taught him EVERYTHING he needs to know about becoming a great super-hero. Everyone else on the show (besides Chloe) don't have any clue as to what they are saying. Clark should tell them to shut their faces. :lol:

[jazel]

Clark, just needs to embrace, who and what he is.
He's still NOT able, to do that, yet.:p
It's cool, that some peeps have enough courage, to stand up to him (knowing his power, but ALSO knowing his personality)......like he'll vaporize them ? :lol:
Would love Bart to show up some time soon.;):lol:

[CK&CK]

I've heard this argument MANY times. Clark has to work towards being Superman at a slow pace, taking his time accepting his destiny and resisting proactive work as a superhero for the sake of story arcs??? I don't think so.

If Clark decided that he could do more for people and tried to actively save lives in the city THIS would be him working his way towards his role as the official "Superman". I don't think "slowing his progression down" allows for more story arcs at all. I think the producers could make good storylines with a Clark Kent that isn't really sure what his role will be one day, but uses his innate sense of justice and goodness to help the people of metropolis. I'm not talking on the grand scale of Superman quite yet, but they could definitely make more of an effort to work Clark up to that with helping clean the streets up on a smaller scale. It would not even need to take up whole episodes. Just a scene here and there showing us that Clark is doing something to help people, because he knows it's right and he is capable.

Just because we (the viewers) would see that Clark wants to save people, would not mean that "Oh my goodness!" "Superman has arrived". He should want to AND try to, even before he IS Superman. Smallville is supposed to be the journey of Clark Kent becoming Superman, right?? Well I have not seen much progression (if any) in fact he has almost regressed from his destiny. Yes, it's not too much to expect that Clark would at first reject his role in coming to earth, it's not even too much to expect that he would try to put it off for a while BUT AT SOME POINT (which has long passed) he should have started to feel in his heart a growing (instinctual) desire to save/help the human race. And little by little he should have solidified his job at the DP and began proactively taking down evil. (even if it a mugging here or a kitten there)

We have seen 7 seasons of Clark fighting his great destiny....and we have what? ONE more season? So we are supposed to believe that Clark fights right up until he just "gives in" to it? I thought SV was supposed to give us an idea about what it was for Clark to grow into his role and I don't think they have done a very good portrayal. I think at some point, maybe around season 4(?), he should have begun to GRADUALLY embrace his destiny. And we could have watched him work swiftly and firmly to Superman status thoughout season 8, ending with him as "Superman". That is, I'm assuming that is what the producers had planned, ending Smallville with Clark Kent as Superman. As it is, in season 7 we have seen Clark recently throw a red cape carelessly on a fence post and walk in the opposite direction. This being symbolic that Clark Kent is STILL firmly opposed to his role. And we're expected to believe that he miraculously decides to do what is good and right and proactive and BECOME Superman in the span of ONE season (season 8)?

I'm just saying that they could have given us more of Clark Kent accepting his destiny without "sacrificing" storyline. So I don't like it when people say "well we wouldn't have 7 seasons if he HAD accepted his destiny". We would have had PLENTY of storylines even if Clark had been more active about moving towards his future as Superman.

GREAT POST! I too am so tired of this same argument.

I've seen other writting teams do awesome storylines & archs with far less fantastic material than the character of Superman has at his disposal. The fact that they can't make Clark progress in a more admirable fashion (or hell......at least a "decent" progression) toward his Destiny while still maintaining a great overall story......well, it just shows the lack of imagination that Al, Miles, and the writting staff have (although I'd be willing to bet the writting staff is hand cuffed by those two morons)........even this Crappy Clana relationship could have been made better while still having Clark progress........but those 2 aren't happy unless Clark's constantly handing over his manhood to Miss Perfect.......because of course....everything in Smallville that is Male must fall in love with Lana Lang. I can just imagine those 2 in writter's meetings at the start of the season....."Okay guys we need to Give Lana another reason to hang around.......what's that?....."Isis Foundation" is the new "Talon"?.....BRILLIANT!.......Now just squeeze in some more Clana into the episode and it will be perfect. Destiny?...Progression?......Hey, he ain't Superman yet! Just give them fans some more Smallville and they'll be happy".

[litew8]

Clark, just needs to embrace, who and what he is.
He's still NOT able, to do that, yet.:p
It's cool, that some peeps have enough courage, to stand up to him (knowing his power, but ALSO knowing his personality)......like he'll vaporize them ? :lol:
Would love Bart to show up some time soon.;):lol:

Bart was a bad influence. He was a little thief. :p

[CK&CK]

First off, Clark is like 20 or 21 compared to GA's 29 or 30. There is no way you can compare the emotional and experience level and maturity of these 2 men. GA had his time of learning from his mistakes when he was young, and now Clark is going through this same period. GA wasn't GA at 21, he did it when he matured and figured out what it was he wanted to do. And now Clark is trying to figure himself out and to also figure out his role with Jor-el and Kara. These are both alone heavy issues for him and having Lana right now is probably very good in keeping him grounded. I don't think Clark needs to jump when Ollie comes calling.

Ollie has no idea what Clark's life is and really has no reason to make judgement on someone 8 to 9 years younger. I think Ollie is wrong in his statements. I think that Ollie is pushing Clark to help him, a selfish act that would help keep Ollie safe, and he knows it.

To me, this would be a more valid argument if Clark showed progression from were he was at in the first 2 seasons........experience is one thing.....but Clark seemed to have more common sense for his age during his Freshman/Sophmore years than he does as the character he's portrayed to be now....I laugh everytime I remember Johnathan saying that Clark showed....what was it...."Integrity beyond his years"?........and I honestly doubt Ollie is thinking about his own safety first when asking Clark to join up. But Lana keeps him grounded alright......Clark ain't going anywhere until she lets go of that firm grip that she has on the House of EL's only remaining pair of family jewels.

----- Added 23 Minutes later -----



It appears you are so unhappy that Smallville doesn't match the comics that you are ready to slam Clark for it. Please, try to deal with this realty, not a preconceived one of your own.

Everyone has a preconceived idea of what Clark Kent is supposed to be like......whether it's based on the 1950's Superman TV show, Comic Books, Radio shows, or animated cartoons...it doesn't matter.......as for myself, I don't expect this show to be an exact copy of what I think Clark should or ought to be......there's always going to be gray areas when trying to portray an icon to millions of fans.....but the fact that such a large number of fans are enthusiastically praising Green Arrow (and maybe even pumping their fists in the air with a "HELL YEAH!" or "HELL YES") for his comments to Clark.....well, then at the very least it shows something wrong with Clark's character progression as it's being portrayed.........regardless of how much one tries to justify Clark's position. At least that's what I would think if I was a Smallville writter who happened by chance to be reading all of the comments on this particular thread. JMHO.

[SweetOne]

.....but the fact that such a large number of fans are enthusiastically praising Green Arrow (and maybe even pumping their fists in the air with a "HELL YEAH!" or "HELL YES") for his comments to Clark.....well, then at the very least it shows something wrong with Clark's character progression as it's being portrayed.........regardless of how much one tries to justify Clark's position. At least that's what I would think if I was a Smallville writter who happened by chance to be reading all of the comments on this particular thread. JMHO.

LOL I was SO pumping my fist in the air!!! I also practically leapt off the couch and did a little dance!!:p

It's funny that you mention that....about a Smallville writer reading the boards. I have noticed an unexpected level of appreciation towards Green Arrow. I think that poeple are feasting hungrily upon him because we are actually getting a glimpse of a Superhero. He makes the show exciting. Something that Clark has not been able to dredge up consistantly. So I can see how all the praise and admiration that Green Arrow is getting would "at the very least show something wrong with Clark's character progression" (like you stated:)) I really do hope the writers notice the enthusiasm over Oliver's character and how it would corelate with Clark's character. Not that I believe changes to Clark's character (at this late stage) would make much a difference with the time we have left....

[Theshadow129x]

I've heard this argument MANY times. Clark has to work towards being Superman at a slow pace, taking his time accepting his destiny and resisting proactive work as a superhero for the sake of story arcs??? I don't think so.

If Clark decided that he could do more for people and tried to actively save lives in the city THIS would be him working his way towards his role as the official "Superman". I don't think "slowing his progression down" allows for more story arcs at all. I think the producers could make good storylines with a Clark Kent that isn't really sure what his role will be one day, but uses his innate sense of justice and goodness to help the people of metropolis. I'm not talking on the grand scale of Superman quite yet, but they could definitely make more of an effort to work Clark up to that with helping clean the streets up on a smaller scale. It would not even need to take up whole episodes. Just a scene here and there showing us that Clark is doing something to help people, because he knows it's right and he is capable.
Just because we (the viewers) would see that Clark wants to save people, would not mean that "Oh my goodness!" "Superman has arrived". He should want to AND try to, even before he IS Superman. Smallville is supposed to be the journey of Clark Kent becoming Superman, right?? Well I have not seen much progression (if any) in fact he has almost regressed from his destiny. Yes, it's not too much to expect that Clark would at first reject his role in coming to earth, it's not even too much to expect that he would try to put it off for a while BUT AT SOME POINT (which has long passed) he should have started to feel in his heart a growing (instinctual) desire to save/help the human race. And little by little he should have solidified his job at the DP and began proactively taking down evil. (even if it a mugging here or a kitten there)

We have seen 7 seasons of Clark fighting his great destiny....and we have what? ONE more season? So we are supposed to believe that Clark fights right up until he just "gives in" to it? I thought SV was supposed to give us an idea about what it was for Clark to grow into his role and I don't think they have done a very good portrayal. I think at some point, maybe around season 4(?), he should have begun to GRADUALLY embrace his destiny. And we could have watched him work swiftly and firmly to Superman status thoughout season 8, ending with him as "Superman". That is, I'm assuming that is what the producers had planned, ending Smallville with Clark Kent as Superman. As it is, in season 7 we have seen Clark recently throw a red cape carelessly on a fence post and walk in the opposite direction. This being symbolic that Clark Kent is STILL firmly opposed to his role. And we're expected to believe that he miraculously decides to do what is good and right and proactive and BECOME Superman in the span of ONE season (season 8)?

I'm just saying that they could have given us more of Clark Kent accepting his destiny without "sacrificing" storyline. So I don't like it when people say "well we wouldn't have 7 seasons if he HAD accepted his destiny". We would have had PLENTY of storylines even if Clark had been more active about moving towards his future as Superman.

Thank you for this post. I agree with you one hundred percent.

I'm not asking for him to be exactly like the comics i'm asking for him to be more active and more open minded about his destiny and his role to helping people. i know this Clark kent on the show is different than the comics clark but they regress the character and think that if he takes on more responsibility then he will be superman and thats not the case. They make him seem like a hero in season 1-4 and then seasons 5-7 come around he's less than willing to help people unless he is somehow associated with him.

People on these boards keep saying that he will save billions one day and I know this, but to say what Ollie and Bart and Victor and the others in the league does is small compared to what he does is really ridiculous. Like I said a hero is measured by the strength in his heart with the knowledge of sacrifice being part of the job. right now, after 7 years of story telling Clark isnt willing to sacrifice anything. but then again i wouldnt care if he stayed with Lana while saving more people outside of Smallville, i would like him to willingly try to balence the two but he doesnt think it possible so he would rather hold on to lana and just have that relationship.

the character has been regressed time and time again on this show which just baffles me. he could accept who he is without becoming superman. they just think that if he does accept who and what he is the show is over and thats not the case at all.

also cut the crap about him not being superman yet. i get it! seriously the guy is like 22. his moral compass should be pointing north by now. just because you are or someone else you know isnt a responsible adult at that age doesnt mean everyone is that way. after the way Clark was raised by his parents he should be willing to do what he can to change peoples lives. at latest he should have come into full understanding last year but of course thats not the case....

[Javierocker]

I've heard this argument MANY times. Clark has to work towards being Superman at a slow pace, taking his time accepting his destiny and resisting proactive work as a superhero for the sake of story arcs??? I don't think so.

I agree with you 100%, and I wasn't trying 2 say that they couldn't do good storyarcs with Clark progressing towards his destiny, I think they could do some excellent ones. Perhaps I should have explained myself better, what I ment was that they could not have done the current storyarcs that we have now had Clark been actively pursuing his destiny. Many of the storyarcs that we have seen have been a direct result of Clark's regression rather then progression, such as the witch arc, the 2nd meteor shower, dark Thursday and the phantoms. Gough and Miller choose 2 make arc that basically ruin Clark's character rather then shape it, and many of the bad things that have occurred are a result of Clark choosing 2 run rather then follow his destiny. I think they could do some wonderful arcs with Clark pursuing his destiny and the show could have been one that we all cheered for. Clark in Season 5 should have stayed in college and should have been studying not only Journalism but also preparing for his career as a superhero. He should have taken such courses as Philosophy, Criminology and Psychology, and they could have introduced Dan Turbin perhaps as the Criminology professor. Their were others ways 2 introduce Brainiac without having 2 go through the whole 2nd meteor shower plot and the whole lexana romance, things which like I have said ruin the character of Clark. But this is the route that Gough and Miller choose 2 take, rather then giving us an action packed show about a young hero who will one day serve as the worlds protector and right now is beginning by defending both Smallville and Metropolis

[All about Clark]

And since when does one being the most powerful automatically mean giving up your life for the greater good and doing it at 20 years of age. Is there really anyone that committed at that age, if so, I would love to see it. The fact is, it doesn't exist.

It would make sense that GA would at 29ish, he doesn't need money, he doesn't need a career, and he doesn't have parents telling him what to do. So I find this comparison totally ridiculous.

Clark at what, 18 didn't feel the stones had anything to do with him. Jor-el never made it clear. Once Jor-el did, and said the world was in jeapardy, Clark did jump in.

----- Added 19 Minutes later -----

[QUOTE=Theshadow129x;3589321]His moral compass should be pointing north by now. /QUOTE]

He was ready to begin his training in the fortress and Jor-el sent him to watch over Kara. I love how everyone likes to dismiss what they've seen to support their argument.

[SweetOne]

I agree with you 100%, and I wasn't trying 2 say that they couldn't do good storyarcs with Clark progressing towards his destiny, I think they could do some excellent ones. Perhaps I should have explained myself better, what I ment was that they could not have done the current storyarcs that we have now had Clark been actively pursuing his destiny. Many of the storyarcs that we have seen have been a direct result of Clark's regression rather then progression, such as the witch arc, the 2nd meteor shower, dark Thursday and the phantoms. Gough and Miller choose 2 make arc that basically ruin Clark's character rather then shape it, and many of the bad things that have occurred are a result of Clark choosing 2 run rather then follow his destiny. I think they could do some wonderful arcs with Clark pursuing his destiny and the show could have been one that we all cheered for. Clark in Season 5 should have stayed in college and should have been studying not only Journalism but also preparing for his career as a superhero. He should have taken such courses as Philosophy, Criminology and Psychology, and they could have introduced Dan Turbin perhaps as the Criminology professor. Their were others ways 2 introduce Brainiac without having 2 go through the whole 2nd meteor shower plot and the whole lexana romance, things which like I have said ruin the character of Clark. But this is the route that Gough and Miller choose 2 take, rather then giving us an action packed show about a young hero who will one day serve as the worlds protector and right now is beginning by defending both Smallville and Metropolis

Well darn!! I'm sorry that I misinterpreted your post! I agree with you 100% as well.:) I really liked the part were you wrote "I think they could do some wonderful arcs with Clark pursuing his destiny and the show could have been one that we all cheered for." Ahhh a Smallville we all cheer for?? Wouldn't that be nice! LOL

Clark in Season 5 should have stayed in college and should have been studying not only Journalism but also preparing for his career as a superhero. He should have taken such courses as Philosophy, Criminology and Psychology, and they could have introduced Dan Turbin perhaps as the Criminology professor.

I think this would have been a wondeful way for Clark to move towards his destiny. gradually. As it stands now with only ONE SEASON LEFT(!) Clark knows nothing about journalism (no education), he does NOT work at the DP and most importantly he does not show ANY desire to get into the field of journalism. How are we supposed to equate that with "nearly upon us" Superman? I think Season 5 would have been an appropriate time to increase the involvement of journalism in Clark Kent's life. This will one day be HALF of his identity, his 9-5 job (unless he's out saving someone of course!) and it's COMPLETELY underdeveloped!! Millar and Gough really don't know where their priorities lie!

...rather then giving us an action packed show about a young hero who will one day serve as the worlds protector and right now is beginning by defending both Smallville and Metropolis

Now that's a show I want to watch!:)

[cksidekick]

[QUOTE=All about Clark;3589754]And since when does one being the most powerful automatically mean giving up your life for the greater good and doing it at 20 years of age. Is there really anyone that committed at that age, if so, I would love to see it. The fact is, it doesn't exist.

It would make sense that GA would at 29ish, he doesn't need money, he doesn't need a career, and he doesn't have parents telling him what to do. So I find this comparison totally ridiculous.

Clark at what, 18 didn't feel the stones had anything to do with him. Jor-el never made it clear. Once Jor-el did, and said the world was in jeapardy, Clark did jump in.

----- Added 19 Minutes later -----




okay, i agree with you about the 20 or 21 year old part...he isn't all that old when it comes to PUTTING ON THE SUIT...

the stones? well you make the point yourself...we went an entire season and in the FINAL episode, the writers had to do something with it...cop out

training? the writers read our posts for the entire OFF SEASON about Clark needing to go train...so, they gave in to us...they gave us ONE SCENE where he acted like he should, and they imediatly sent him to look after Kara...cop out again by the writers..

[All about Clark]

Just to be clear, I was only defending Clark. I am not defending the writers. I have already stated this 1 step forward, 2 steps back stuff a total cop out.

I think the first mistake was having Clark be like 15 when the show began. Because they have drug their feet because of his age.

And based on his age, their is no way he would have the maturity to give his life to the greater good regardless of how powerful he is.

[litew8]

The topic is starting to drift off course. Me, All about Clark, Cogito17, LoveLiving and many others have made a very solid argument as to why Green Arrow should not be passing judgement (more than once). GA doesn't know what he's talking about, and should keep his big green trap shut.

[Javierocker]

I'm gonna defend Ollie a little bit here, though I do agree that he was rather harsh as many other people have been 2 Clark. When it comes such people as Ollie, Lana, Chloe and probably even Lionel they see someone with such amazing potential and they would all love 2 see that potential realized. I think the problem is that these people really don't know how 2 speak 2 the guy in any sort of real positive sort of way, they all seem 2 want 2 force it on him. The problem that these characters have is that when they look at Clark all they see is his powers and what he could do with them, and Clark doesn't want 2 be looked upon that way, I don't even think that Superman likes that. What makes Superman the hero he is that he has all these powers and yet manages 2 display both compassion, humanity and mercy, he has been more then merciful with Lex. If others are going 2 tell him 2 be a hero they should look what would make him an ideal hero, and it more then just his powers. Jonathan described Clark from this perspective in Void when he described Clark as being a symbol of peace, hope and justice. Lana also said this in action, but Jonathan's words were much more heartfelt and inspiring. This is something that comes from Clark himself and not from his powers, his powers are the tools he uses 2 spread this. The other characters only seem 2 view Clark from the point of view of him having power and taking down the badguys, Superman is more then that. I do think Oliver made a valid point, but I think he is looking at Clark as another weapon against evil. If he or anyone else want 2 inspire they should look at him as more then just a weapon, it should be approached from the POV that not only can be beat the badguys but he can inspire those around him 2 be better and give hope 2 all those who have none, show him why it should be him, and not just because of his powers.

[litew8]

^
Oliver is redundant. He said nearly the EXACT same thing to Clark the first time. What makes him any more right this time? Nothing.

[cksidekick]

The topic is starting to drift off course. Me, All about Clark, Cogito17, LoveLiving and many others have made a very solid argument as to why Green Arrow should not be passing judgement (more than once). GA doesn't know what he's talking about, and should keep his big green trap shut.


i think there have been a number of good arguments on both sides...but i'm still of the opinion that had Clark walked through the door and said, "Hi, Oliver...We need to talk about this Chloe on the team thing.." the conversation would have been different...

Oliver doesn't have a lack of respect for Clark...Quite the opposite...he respects him SOOOO much, he has a hard time figuring out why Clark isn't on the team...

if Clark were to tell him EVERYTHING, Oliver may very well have a different opinion about Clark's activities...but as things stand, Oliver only sees what Clark DOESN'T do...and with the information he does have, well, he is right...and Clark knows Oliver only has part of the story...which is why he DOESN'T tell him to back off...

and as much as some may think Oliver has no right to ride Clark's ass, Clark also has no right to just disrespect another man's home the way he did...it isn't Oliver's fault Lex allowed Clark do it to him so often...i would think Oliver a coward (and so would everyone else) if he had rolled over just because the "Boyscout" has more muscle than he does...

[litew8]

i think there have been a number of good arguments on both sides...but i'm still of the opinion that had Clark walked through the door and said, &quot;Hi, Oliver...We need to talk about this Chloe on the team thing..&quot; the conversation would have been different...

Oliver doesn't have a lack of respect for Clark...Quite the opposite...he respects him SOOOO much, he has a hard time figuring out why Clark isn't on the team...

if Clark were to tell him EVERYTHING, Oliver may very well have a different opinion about Clark's activities...but as things stand, Oliver only sees what Clark DOESN'T do...and with the information he does have, well, he is right...and Clark knows Oliver only has part of the story...which is why he DOESN'T tell him to back off...

and as much as some may think Oliver has no right to ride Clark's ass, Clark also has no right to just disrespect another man's home the way he did...it isn't Oliver's fault Lex allowed Clark do it to him so often...i would think Oliver a coward (and so would everyone else) if he had rolled over just because the &quot;Boyscout&quot; has more muscle than he does...

Fair enough. But GA didn't just keep the conversation about Chloe and her safety. He stretched it out to belittle Clark again. That didn't have anything to do with Clark bursting in, or being concerned about Chloe. Green Arrow is a little hero and is on a need to know basis with Clark's info. Clark DOES NOT HAVE TO ANSWER TO him the way he does; as if he's somehow more important than Clark. Nor does GA have any right to try and belittle Clark. Disrespectful. Rude. Lacking proper ethics. GA is redundant. Clark doesn't do that to him.

[jazel]

But GA didn't just keep the conversation about Chloe and her safety. He stretched it out to belittle Clark again. Green Arrow is a little hero and is on a need to know basis with Clark's info. Clark DOES NOT HAVE TO ANSWER TO him the way he does; as if he's somehow more important than Clark. Nor does GA have any right to try and belittle Clark. Disrespectful. Rude. Lacking proper ethics. GA is redundant. Clark doesn't do that to him.

You're right, Clark, only answers to Lana and Chloe.
Clark doesn't make a habit of saving those he doesn't know, or care about, UNLESS he's propelled to do so. The little hero, currently is a bigger one IMO, because he's doing random heroic acts........like taking Lex's facilities out, at the risk of himself, and the rest of the Leaguers. Clark has Lex under his nose, and turns a blind eye, to everything he has done, and continues on doing. Even though he knows the horrible things, Lex is capable of, *cough Lexana fiasco*. If telling CK how it is, than yeah GA was rude, disrespectful. BUT somebody other than Lana and Chloe has to say it to him. Love both Clark and Ollie, but sometimes friends can point out the obvious, and get away with it.;)

[All about Clark]

There is definitely an inequity with Clark and Oliver. Clark knows of Ollie's activities, but Olliver doesn't know Clarks. I think Oliver is just trying to get Clark to talk to him about what he's up to so he can understand him better. He's hoping to agravate Clark into getting him to open up and it hasn't worked. Clark on the other hand, doesn't share his zoner problems with anyone except Chloe and Lana. He seems to feel like it might be too much for Ollie to handle and doesn't want to burden him with it. And I'm sure he feels that the fortress and Jor-el are too personal to share with Ollie. This leaves us with Ollie verbally attacking Clark in the one area he does know about, that Clark won't join him yet.

[litew8]

You're right, Clark, only answers to Lana and Chloe.
Clark doesn't make a habit of saving those he doesn't know, or care about, UNLESS he's propelled to do so. The little hero, currently is a bigger one IMO, because he's doing random heroic acts........like taking Lex's facilities out, at the risk of himself, and the rest of the Leaguers. Clark has Lex under his nose, and turns a blind eye, to everything he has done, and continues on doing. Even though he knows the horrible things, Lex is capable of, *cough Lexana fiasco*. If telling CK how it is, than yeah GA was rude, disrespectful. BUT somebody other than Lana and Chloe has to say it to him. Love both Clark and Ollie, but sometimes friends can point out the obvious, and get away with it.;)

Well, by definition, wouldn't it be accurate to say or suggest that Clark becoming a Super-Hero lets the little heroes, like Green Arrow, do all of the light work? I mean, seriously - all Green Arrow and his little heroes are doing - is going around planting bombs and stealing wire transfers/documents. Clark Kent/Superman doesn't do that petty crap. :) Honestly. There's a difference. Clark/Superman doesn't do petty crap, and he doesn't answer to heroes. He doesn't jump merely because they tell him to. GA is arrogant and redundant. He told Clark the same stuff once before. Clark ignored him then, and I'm glad he ignored him now.

[SweetOne]

The topic is starting to drift off course. Me, All about Clark, Cogito17, LoveLiving and many others have made a very solid argument as to why Green Arrow should not be passing judgement (more than once). GA doesn't know what he's talking about, and should keep his big green trap shut.

Man....you sure sound aggressive in your posts. I have seen many good arguments on both sides but your posts come off in the most offensive manner. Your posts always sound as if you are going out of your way to be rude and pick a fight. I just don't get it??

I don't think we were off topic. We were talking about Clark's progression to Superman and how it is lacking, how we would like Clark to be a bit more open to embracing his destiny. This has everything to do with what Oliver was saying to Clark, because Oliver wants to see Clark do more with his abilities as well. AND because we find Clark to be lacking in progression, we are so pleased that Oliver told him to get his butt in gear. I will never believe that Oliver was "too hard" on Clark. I only wish that the tongue-lashing that he gave Clark has an effect on him.

Clark needs to re-evaluate his desires and maybe do a bit of soul-searching. I would love for Clark to discover new aspirations, to discover that in fact he DOES want to help people and would find a desire to be more proactive. If in fact this did happen, it would have been (in part) because of Oliver. Someone needs to be planting seeds in Clark about his role in the grand scheme....why not Oliver??

[litew8]

Man....you sure sound aggressive in your posts. I have seen many good arguments on both sides but your posts come off in the most offensive manner. Your posts always sound as if you are going out of your way to be rude and pick a fight. I just don't get it??

I don't think we were off topic. We were talking about Clark's progression to Superman and how it is lacking, how we would like Clark to be a bit more open to embracing his destiny. This has everything to do with what Oliver was saying to Clark, because Oliver wants to see Clark do more with his abilities as well. AND because we find Clark to be lacking in progression, we are so pleased that Oliver told him to get his butt in gear. I will never believe that Oliver was &quot;too hard&quot; on Clark. I only wish that the tongue-lashing that he gave Clark has an effect on him.

Clark needs to re-evaluate his desires and maybe do a bit of soul-searching. I would love for Clark to discover new aspirations, to discover that in fact he DOES want to help people and would find a desire to be more proactive. If in fact this did happen, it would have been (in part) because of Oliver. Someone needs to be planting seeds in Clark about his role in the grand scheme....why not Oliver??

My posts come off in an aggressive/offensive manner? So? Doesn't mean that they are not meaningful. The thread was about Oliver getting up in Clark's face, not so much about trying to justify Clark's progression to his destiny - but rather why Oliver shouldn't be doing or saying the crap he is. He has said it once before, what makes him any more right this time around? Nothing. And you continue to ignore all of the things Clark has already done to save lives. Even if some of the things were a result of bad judgement - not selfishness. Clark will become a super-hero, not a hero like GA. GA doesn't even have any super-powers - he is just a little hero, and has no right to try and judge Clark's actions, direction or even progression for that matter. Maybe you are upset because I made a valid point about Oliver and his cronnies going around and simply planting bombs, wire transfer interceptions and stealing documents - something SUPERMAN doesn't do. Petty hero work. Like I mentioned before - Clark/Superman doesn't do that petty crap, and he won't be joining some little immature (as of yet) JL - especially with some green nag who thinks he knows everything.

[jazel]

Well, by definition, wouldn't it be accurate to say or suggest that Clark becoming a Super-Hero lets the little heroes, like Green Arrow, do all of the light work? I mean, seriously - all Green Arrow and his little heroes are doing - is going around planting bombs and stealing wire transfers/documents. Clark Kent/Superman doesn't do that petty crap. :) Honestly. There's a difference. Clark/Superman doesn't do petty crap, and he doesn't answer to heroes. He doesn't jump merely because they tell him to. GA is arrogant and redundant. He told Clark the same stuff once before. Clark ignored him then, and I'm glad he ignored him now.

Your arguement, is getting redundant.:lol:
Sorry, but Clark is really beginning to look ignorant about some things. Has he forgotten about Prototype ? Did he see Lex's "army" at the Dam ? Isn't he the least bit concerned about Lex, and ALL he has going on ? From what I can tell, that answer is no. He's got Lana, that all he's ever wanted. Kinda sad, when you consider all he could be doing.
How do you see Clark becoming a Super-Hero ? When he's making no effort, to be a hero at all. Planting bombs, and thwarting Lex and his facilities is actually pretty impressive. Maybe the "little" heros, can teach Clark a thing or two, about responsiblities.:p

[litew8]

Your arguement, is getting redundant.:lol:
Sorry, but Clark is really beginning to look ignorant about some things. Has he forgotten about Prototype ? Did he see Lex's &quot;army&quot; at the Dam ? Isn't he the least bit concerned about Lex, and ALL he has going on ? From what I can tell, that answer is no. He's got Lana, that all he's ever wanted. Kinda sad, when you consider all he could be doing.
How do you see Clark becoming a Super-Hero ? When he's making no effort, to be a hero at all. Planting bombs, and thwarting Lex and his facilities is actually pretty impressive. Maybe the &quot;little&quot; heros, can teach Clark a thing or two, about responsiblities. :p

:lol: haha, I'm not arguing - just speaking the reality. Look, I don't understand why Clark even condones what GA is doing to Lex - First, they are stealing. Clark/Superman doesn't steal. Second, they are trying to act like their own judge and jury - Clark/Superman doesn't do that either. But you consider stealing and blowing up warehouses impressive. I don't. I consider saving airplanes in mid-flight, saving people from burning buildings, earthquakes, bursting dams about to flood an entire town, Phantoms on the loose, avalanches, tidal waves etc... to be more along the lines of what a superhero does. You'll NEVER see GA doing that. :p Clark will begin to become Superman when Lex releases havoc for real. So far, he hasn't done that. But when Lex does (heck, if he does), that's when Clark will step up and the show will be over.

[Javierocker]

I agree with everything that you are saying about Green Arrow and this is why Clark needs 2 step up the plate. Right now everyone is going by the belief that the ends justify the means and Clark doesn't believe in that, this what makes him Superman. And as a hero he of all people can bring his morals and values with him and stop Lex and his plans but not pass judgment on him as it is not his place 2 do so or steal as Clark has the power 2 burn the whole thing down. Clark or any other hero don't have any right 2 pass judgment on anyone, however they do have every right 2 stop a madman who is hurting innocent people, and Clark out of all of them can do that while still displaying the most moral compass out of anyone.

[jazel]

:lol: haha, I'm not arguing - just speaking the reality. Look, I don't understand why Clark even condones what GA is doing to Lex - First, they are stealing. Clark/Superman doesn't steal. Second, they are trying to act like their own judge and jury - Clark/Superman doesn't do that either. But you consider stealing and blowing up warehouses impressive. I don't. I consider saving airplanes in mid-flight, saving people from burning buildings, earthquakes, bursting dams about to flood an entire town, Phantoms on the loose, avalanches, tidal waves etc... to be more along the lines of what a superhero does. You'll NEVER see GA doing that. :p Clark will begin to become Superman when Lex releases havoc for real. So far, he hasn't done that. But when Lex does (heck, if he does), that's when Clark will step up and the show will be over.

What is GA exactly stealing ? Lex is a criminal, who gets away with everything. How many more people, does Lex need to kill, to get a response from Clark ? If building clone soldiers isn't havoc, what is ?
I think you're jumping way into the future. Nobody can dispute the things CK can do, and I don't believe anybody has. Ollie is arrogant and redundant as you see him, so what if he is ? Alteast he IS out there making a difference, while CK continues to "play" house with Lana. Only when Clark "accepts" his destiny(something he hasn't done yet), will he move foreward. Have seen many characters, "try" to push him in that direction. Can't wait to see what Pete's gonna have to say, when they get together.:)

[litew8]

I agree with everything that you are saying about Green Arrow and this is why Clark needs 2 step up the plate. Right now everyone is going by the belief that the ends justify the means and Clark doesn't believe in that, this what makes him Superman. And as a hero he of all people can bring his morals and values with him and stop Lex and his plans but not pass judgment on him as it is not his place 2 do so or steal as Clark has the power 2 burn the whole thing down. Clark or any other hero don't have any right 2 pass judgment on anyone, however they do have every right 2 stop a madman who is hurting innocent people, and Clark out of all of them can do that while still displaying the most moral compass out of anyone.

The thing is, Clark/Superman doesn't generally (that I'm aware of) go around and do things in a premeditated fashion. He acts usually after or durring a time of crisis. He doesn't say "Oh, golly gee, that Lex Luthor is up to something - I think I'll go and destroy his warehouses!". If Lex Luthor unleashes havoc onto the world, then Clark/Superman will be there to save the masses. He prevents catastrophe after the fact, he doesn't prevent the acts of. A type of job security.

----- Added 5 Minutes later -----


What is GA exactly stealing ? Lex is a criminal, who gets away with everything. How many more people, does Lex need to kill, to get a response from Clark ? If building clone soldiers isn't havoc, what is ?
I think you're jumping way into the future. Nobody can dispute the things CK can do, and I don't believe anybody has. Ollie is arrogant and redundant as you see him, so what if he is ? Alteast he IS out there making a difference, while CK continues to &quot;play&quot; house with Lana. Only when Clark &quot;accepts&quot; his destiny (something he hasn't done yet), will he move foreward. Have seen many characters, "try" to push him in that direction. Can't wait to see what Pete's gonna have to say, when they get together.:)

How many more people does Lex need to kill? Who has he killed - people that are somehow directly involved with him, not inocent people (well, sorta - no real proof anyway). Clark isn't a judge nor jury - if Lex Luthor wants to build an army of clone soldiers for the military - Lex Luthor has every right. They didn't wreck havoc onto an innocent population. I'm not jumping way too far into the future. The present determines what the future may hold. Clark's actions and his subtleness will shape his future attitude.

[jazel]

if Lex Luthor wants to build an army of clone soldiers for the military - Lex Luthor has every right. They didn't wreck havoc onto an innocent population. Clark's actions and his subtleness will shape his future attitude.

Actually what Lex is doing seems to be illegal. Atleast Lois won't let him get away with it, considering her promise to the dying Wes.
Seems alot of innocent people get killed, and nobody cares because they're just props for Lex.
But I digress, just wish CK was closer to being the Superhero, we all know he's destinied to become. His future, seems impossibly far away.

[litew8]

Actually what Lex is doing seems to be illegal. Atleast Lois won't let him get away with it, considering her promise to the dying Wes.
Seems alot of innocent people get killed, and nobody cares because they're just props for Lex. But I digress, just wish CK was closer to being the Superhero, we all know he's destinied to become. His future, seems impossibly far away.

Well, if he were to go around and blow up warehouses and steal document, that'd make him a bad person. What would the show be like if they showed Clark Kent going around and blowing up warehouses and stealing documents. That'd be petty. Remember when the JL wanted to blow up that warehouse of Lex's, Clark didn't like the idea of it. Innocent people could have been killed, etc.... I didn't really care for that scene, because Clark gave in. Clark has much larger shoes to fill than that. Whether or not the writers and producers are capable of portaying that soon is yet to be seen. But I think them not writting Clark to join the (immature as of yet) JL or doing what GA tells him to do - is a good move on their part.

[jazel]

Cloning soldiers, and ridding them of human emotions, should be allowed ? A bad person actually turns the other cheek, lol, much like CK is doing now.
Putting a stop to Lex's activities could save alot of heartache and grief down the road. Does CK even realize he cloned Lana ? But if CK doesn't want do that, who are we to judge ? I'm glad the young JL is out there atleast "trying".
Who knows, when all is said and done things could actually make sense.:lol:

[litew8]

Lex is a criminal, who gets away with everything.

Yea, but that doesn't give Clark the right to become the judge and jury. If Lex Luthor was a fugitive, sure. But he isn't. Just because Lex is known to be a criminal (to us) doesn't mean people can go around and expect him to be prosecuted for unfounded accusations. That's why there is Lois Lane - to dig up the facts and attempt to convict. And the reason why Clark becomes a reporter in the future - so he can gather facts. The law is a state and federal juristiction - Superman brings the criminals to justice (after the fact). :)

----- Added 11 Minutes later -----


Cloning soldiers, and ridding them of human emotions, should be allowed ? A bad person actually turns the other cheek, lol, much like CK is doing now. Putting a stop to Lex's activities could save alot of heartache and grief down the road. Does CK even realize he cloned Lana ? But if CK doesn't want do that, who are we to judge ? I'm glad the young JL is out there atleast &quot;trying&quot;.
Who knows, when all is said and done things could actually make sense.:lol:

I never suggested that cloning soldiers and ridding them of human emotions should be allowed. But you have to remember - Lex and the government both think that there's an alien threat about ready to come to Earth. They'll have to deal with a larger than life threat with larger than life solutions (and it's all comic immagination). In the eyes of Lex (and possibly the government), putting a stop to Lex's activities means the end of the world (due to the invasion). :) The reasoning can go either way.

[Dor el]

Lots of good points on both sides here.

In Ollie's defense, he did make some good points about Clark's apparent passiveness. From where Ollie sits, Clark hasn't really done much good, at least not what Ollie feels is Clark's full potential. Ollie has taken it upon himself to do many heroic things. This is in large part due to Ollie wanting to make amends for his misbehaviors as a child. Ollie told this in no uncertain terms to Lex. Now, making amends is not a bad thing, but it is unfair to project your motives and desires onto someone else and expect that someone else to view life as you do. Clark and Ollie come from vastly different backgrounds. Ollie's life was one of privilege, and I suspect a great deal of world traveling was involved. Ollie got an opportunity to see the world; to get to know the world, whereas Clark has a limited exposure to the world. That will change, but right now, Clark's view is obstructed by his personal experiences. Ollie is not aware of everything Clark has gone through, the tragedies, the trials, the fears, the dilemmas, etc. Ollie really knows very little about Clark and based on what little he does know, his comments are quite understandable. Clearly, Clark has the physical capacity to do way more than he does. He could prowl the streets looking for good deeds to do. He could. Ollie does indeed do a lot. But, Ollie has great means to facilitate he heroic behaviors. I suspect Ollie has finished college, traveled the world, and enjoyed the means left him by his well to do parents.

Clark, on the other hand, has been sheltered and pretty much been kept near home, first by his parents' fears, then by his own self doubt, and also by his desire to have a "normal" life. True, a large part of that normal life is his motivation to be with Lana. It's not her fault he loves her; nor is it his own fault. Can't really help who you love. Romantically speaking. A large part of love is related to what you do and not just how you feel. Clark's reaction to his love for Lana's is up to him. So far he has been pretty much incapacitated by his love for her.

Great demands have been made on Clark. Jorel is dead, but his AI is trying to fulfill Jorel's plans for Clark. Jorel could not have foreseen the future any more than Clark has been able to. Maybe the Jorel AI is able to acquire new knowledge and based on that knowledge recompute the odds and make predictions about what probably will occur. But, probability is not %100 certainty. Jorel had no idea just how human Clark would become and just how desperate Clark is to be human. Jorel made his plans for Clark based on his owns desires and inabilities. Jorel couldn't save Krypton. Maybe Jorel's redemption was Clark saving another civilization. Jorel's expectations were unfair and maybe even selfish. Not selfish in terms of wanting to save the world, but selfish in terms of wanting Clark to be who Jorel wanted him to be and not who Clark wanted to be. Intentions were good, I think, but rather unrealistic in terms of wanting to live Clark's life and perhaps succeed via Clark where he had failed himself. Benevolent? Perhaps. I think What Clark makes of his life should be up to Clark. He needs to come to the realization that he has a lot to offer the world and he needs to decide to act on that. And not just become Superman because his daddy wanted him to. Clark is beginning to accept his potential. After all, didn't Clark admit to Lana that he does in fact lead a "two sided" life? He has acknowledged that he has more than just his humanity to deal with. This, I think, is a huge step forward toward his destiny. Just being able to articulate that.

That being said, I turn to Clark. Clark has spent his life mostly thinking about others. First, he tried so very hard to please Martha and Jonathan and to be a good son to them. He felt he owed them that for them taking him in. This is gratitude in the highest terms. A good quality, I think. Plus, he loved them. Love, another good quality, I think. Clark has saved many people over and over again. Many of the saves are known only to Clark and maybe Chloe. Ollie is unaware. Clark has made some mistakes. No doubt about that. Name a superhero who hasn't. In Spiderman terms,with great power comes great responsibility; but I'd like to add that with great responsibility comes great opportunity for error. Error in reaction, judgment, and decision making. The more knee jerk decisions one has to make in split second time frames, the more likely that mistakes in decision making will be made. Clark is not immune to this. Neither is Ollie. Clark has in many ways led a tormented life. Torn between two worlds, two sets of parents, two lives.

I vote for cutting Clark some more slack. No, he isn't yet who he will become. But isn't that what "yet" is all about? Getting there? I don't agree that Clark is not progressing. Progress is slow when you are marred down in torment. And I believe that is where Clark currently is. I think enough people in SV world have beat up on Clark without having full knowledge and understanding of just what Clark has gone through. Jorel AI, Ollie, Lex, Lana, Bart, Aquaman. Chloe is the only one I sincerely believe has a right to beat up on Clark's lack of proactivity. She has been through a lot with him and therefore has a better understanding of his life. Not Ollie. Though in many ways, I do agree with Ollie's comments.

Clark is not a failure. Is not a BDA. Is not not progressing. Is not not listening to his critics. But the decision to go out into the world has to be his own. He's working on it.

[jazel]

I never suggested that cloning soldiers and ridding them of human emotions should be allowed. But you have to remember - Lex and the government both think that there's an alien threat about ready to come to Earth. They'll have to deal with a larger than life threat with larger than life solutions (and it's all comic immagination). In the eyes of Lex (and possibly the government), putting a stop to Lex's activities means the end of the world (due to the invasion). :) The reasoning can go either way.

But you did suggest that what GA, and JL are doing is wrong. Lex is warped enough, in what he thinks is going to happen. Not really sure where the government stands on things, as we only had the Senator threatening to put a halt to his goings on for reference.
Lex is bad news, CK has known this for years, kind of cowardly, to ignore the elephant in the room. How many times has Clark said Lex needs to be stopped ?

[All about Clark]

We were talking about Clark's progression to Superman and how it is lacking, how we would like Clark to be a bit more open to embracing his destiny. This has everything to do with what Oliver was saying to Clark, because Oliver wants to see Clark do more with his abilities as well. AND because we find Clark to be lacking in progression, we are so pleased that Oliver told him to get his butt in gear. I will never believe that Oliver was "too hard" on Clark. I only wish that the tongue-lashing that he gave Clark has an effect on him.

See, this is my problem, Clark in no way needs to answer to Olliver. Whatever Olliver wants is inconsequencial compared to what Jor-el wants of Clark, because the consequences are far greater when Jor-el advises Clark. As far as I'm concerned, this is the time for Clark/Jor-el, not the time for Clark/Olliver.

By the way, Dor-el, as usual I love your above post.

[Javierocker]

Lots of good points on both sides here.

In Ollie's defense, he did make some good points about Clark's apparent passiveness. From where Ollie sits, Clark hasn't really done much good, at least not what Ollie feels is Clark's full potential. Ollie has taken it upon himself to do many heroic things. This is in large part due to Ollie wanting to make amends for his misbehaviors as a child. Ollie told this in no uncertain terms to Lex. Now, making amends is not a bad thing, but it is unfair to project your motives and desires onto someone else and expect that someone else to view life as you do. Clark and Ollie come from vastly different backgrounds. Ollie's life was one of privilege, and I suspect a great deal of world traveling was involved. Ollie got an opportunity to see the world; to get to know the world, whereas Clark has a limited exposure to the world. That will change, but right now, Clark's view is obstructed by his personal experiences. Ollie is not aware of everything Clark has gone through, the tragedies, the trials, the fears, the dilemmas, etc. Ollie really knows very little about Clark and based on what little he does know, his comments are quite understandable. Clearly, Clark has the physical capacity to do way more than he does. He could prowl the streets looking for good deeds to do. He could. Ollie does indeed do a lot. But, Ollie has great means to facilitate he heroic behaviors. I suspect Ollie has finished college, traveled the world, and enjoyed the means left him by his well to do parents.

Clark, on the other hand, has been sheltered and pretty much been kept near home, first by his parents' fears, then by his own self doubt, and also by his desire to have a "normal" life. True, a large part of that normal life is his motivation to be with Lana. It's not her fault he loves her; nor is it his own fault. Can't really help who you love. Romantically speaking. A large part of love is related to what you do and not just how you feel. Clark's reaction to his love for Lana's is up to him. So far he has been pretty much incapacitated by his love for her.

Great demands have been made on Clark. Jorel is dead, but his AI is trying to fulfill Jorel's plans for Clark. Jorel could not have foreseen the future any more than Clark has been able to. Maybe the Jorel AI is able to acquire new knowledge and based on that knowledge recompute the odds and make predictions about what probably will occur. But, probability is not %100 certainty. Jorel had no idea just how human Clark would become and just how desperate Clark is to be human. Jorel made his plans for Clark based on his owns desires and inabilities. Jorel couldn't save Krypton. Maybe Jorel's redemption was Clark saving another civilization. Jorel's expectations were unfair and maybe even selfish. Not selfish in terms of wanting to save the world, but selfish in terms of wanting Clark to be who Jorel wanted him to be and not who Clark wanted to be. Intentions were good, I think, but rather unrealistic in terms of wanting to live Clark's life and perhaps succeed via Clark where he had failed himself. Benevolent? Perhaps. I think What Clark makes of his life should be up to Clark. He needs to come to the realization that he has a lot to offer the world and he needs to decide to act on that. And not just become Superman because his daddy wanted him to. Clark is beginning to accept his potential. After all, didn't Clark admit to Lana that he does in fact lead a "two sided" life? He has acknowledged that he has more than just his humanity to deal with. This, I think, is a huge step forward toward his destiny. Just being able to articulate that.

That being said, I turn to Clark. Clark has spent his life mostly thinking about others. First, he tried so very hard to please Martha and Jonathan and to be a good son to them. He felt he owed them that for them taking him in. This is gratitude in the highest terms. A good quality, I think. Plus, he loved them. Love, another good quality, I think. Clark has saved many people over and over again. Many of the saves are known only to Clark and maybe Chloe. Ollie is unaware. Clark has made some mistakes. No doubt about that. Name a superhero who hasn't. In Spiderman terms,with great power comes great responsibility; but I'd like to add that with great responsibility comes great opportunity for error. Error in reaction, judgment, and decision making. The more knee jerk decisions one has to make in split second time frames, the more likely that mistakes in decision making will be made. Clark is not immune to this. Neither is Ollie. Clark has in many ways led a tormented life. Torn between two worlds, two sets of parents, two lives.

I vote for cutting Clark some more slack. No, he isn't yet who he will become. But isn't that what "yet" is all about? Getting there? I don't agree that Clark is not progressing. Progress is slow when you are marred down in torment. And I believe that is where Clark currently is. I think enough people in SV world have beat up on Clark without having full knowledge and understanding of just what Clark has gone through. Jorel AI, Ollie, Lex, Lana, Bart, Aquaman. Chloe is the only one I sincerely believe has a right to beat up on Clark's lack of proactivity. She has been through a lot with him and therefore has a better understanding of his life. Not Ollie. Though in many ways, I do agree with Ollie's comments.

Clark is not a failure. Is not a BDA. Is not not progressing. Is not not listening to his critics. But the decision to go out into the world has to be his own. He's working on it.

Well said, well said indeed, I think I have 2 agree, but when it comes down 2 it I put the fault mostly on Jor-El and the writers for introducing Jor-El the way they have. Fact is that during the 1st season and most of season 2 Clark was exploring his powers and seeing that he could use them 2 help others and he very much wanted 2. He was hooking up with Lana and finally going 2 explore what is was like 2 be in relationship, without any sort of real fear. Then Jor-El appears and destroys everything and by doing so puts his son on the opposite track of where he wanted him 2 be. First their was they prophecy that said that Clark was destined 2 rule mankind ( I would very much like 2 see this explained) which makes Clark fearful of himself. But as Clark is trying 2 deal with that Jor-El appears and tells he just as 2 pick up and leave everything he knows. Clark acted very much the way most people probably would when they are happy and someone is trying 2 steal that from them, and of course it caused 2 pain 2 his parents when they lost the baby. Clark now depressed and self loathing ran away and slowly started pushing everyone away as result of his own low self image which Jor-El put on him 2 start with. But of course this falls 2 the writers who flip flap with the character of Jor-El and had they introduced as he was in the comics or even the films ( caring and loving) Clark's progression would be more on par with what we are looking 4. Clark would not have been afraid of himself or his destiny, and would have continued 2 explore himself and his powers and its likely that when Jor-El or asked something of Clark, Clark would have listened. As for the other characters namely Lana, I think that she is starting 2 understand the world that Clark lives in and how not easy it is. I think hopefully that not only watching Clark, but Kara as well, she'll understand what Clark has gone through. 2 make a comment in regards 2 Oliver and even the other characters who judge Clark. It is one thing 2 be able 2 be normal and choose 2 not live that kind of life in order 2 be a hero, each one of them have the choice. Clark does not have the choice as he is not and can never be normal, so it makes more sense that he desires normality as unlike Ollie and Lana its never something that he was able 2 have 2 start with.

[dunkman]

It was good that Oliver got Clark's attention. I know Clark is torn between what he thinks he wants & his destiny, & it often takes someone else rebuking you to get you on the right track. I was disappointed in Clark when he said - I think it was in "Action" - that he was content just being on the farm in Smallville with Lana. It's good that he's realizing that Lana isn't who he thought she was. Without her as the distraction he will be more ready to realize his purpose.

[litew8]

But you did suggest that what GA, and JL are doing is wrong. Lex is warped enough, in what he thinks is going to happen. Not really sure where the government stands on things, as we only had the Senator threatening to put a halt to his goings on for reference. Lex is bad news, CK has known this for years, kind of cowardly, to ignore the elephant in the room. How many times has Clark said Lex needs to be stopped ?

Yes. I did suggest that what they are doing is wrong. I also said that I was glad Clark has not joined them to do the same. What they are doing is (thankfully) not relevant to what Clark is and will be doing. The government - They took Lex's CD full of information, and Lex suggested that they are on the same side. We later seen Lex working with them. Inside of their facilities. Knowing they have knowledge of alien technology (they opened Kara's ship), and knowing enough to have made kryptonite handcuffs. Whatever bad things transpires from all of this, that will be the time for Clark to fly and show us all who he really is meant to be - not what Oliver thinks he should be.

[Tottally ~ Free]

When I saw that scene I thought Go Ollie clark really needs someone to tell it like it is to his face and ollie did. I love the couch line ..

clarks been writen so badly ...I feel sorry for TW

[Dor el]

I was disappointed in Clark when he said - I think it was in "Action" - that he was content just being on the farm in Smallville with Lana. It's good that he's realizing that Lana isn't who he thought she was. Without her as the distraction he will be more ready to realize his purpose.

That was an unfortunate pronouncement. However, I would bet that Clark still has that red cape somewhere close. Maybe with Lana's old necklace. I don't think it meant he was giving up his destiny; just that he wasn't yet ready to give up his dream.

[litew8]

That was an unfortunate pronouncement. However, I would bet that Clark still has that red cape somewhere close. Maybe with Lana's old necklace. I don't think it meant he was giving up his destiny; just that he wasn't yet ready to give up his dream.

True. I also don't think he will ever give up his dream - due to him persuing Lois in the future - in a manner that doesn't put her in harms way.
Lets be reminded of who Clark is - Listen (http://www.supermanhomepage.com/multimedia/Sounds/MP3/superman-movie.mp3)
What does this look like? - Listen (http://www.supermanhomepage.com/multimedia/Sounds/MP3/Job_for_Superman2.mp3)

[litew8]

Pictures: Worth a thousand words. :lol:


http://www.ilsiciliano.net/MISC/letgo.jpg

[wallyK]

Well, Oliver's life cannot be compared to Clark's. Oliver and his team fly around and destroy Lex Luthor's factories. Clark is still in Smallville, but he has had to face much greater challenges. What Oliver does is child's play in comparison. There is enough other worldly trouble that comes Clark's way that he doesn't need to go out looking for extra work.

Given the things are going, Clark has little reason to plan for the future, since he doesn't know what's going to happen from one day to the next. There is also little need for him to leave the farm. If he had absolutely nothing to do, then he might think about leaving the farm and going to Metropolis to help fight crime. But going after human criminals has got to be a very low priority for Clark, who always has bigger fish to fry.

[JNottle]

I don't get why you guys agree, just because you don't see him in a costume you agree even though you see him dealing with alien threats? Although Oliver only said what he did because Clark was angry and went to lecture him so Oliver got a little pay back.