Smallville and Buffy

[knightofkrypton]

I posted this on the Smallville site before I knew this part existed.

Anyone see the many similarities between Buffy and Smallville??

I've never watched Buffy and recently decided to get into it.

As I''ve now watched S1 and S2..I have to say, it seems like someone watched Buffy and said, that'd be a cool idea to do with Superman.
I mean in Buffy, we have a girl with special powers that is destined to fight the powers of evil. She has to hide her identity.

Buffy fights different types of evil every episode, not always vampires (i.e. Freak of the Weeks)

She has a select group of friends that help her investigate and fight the evil

They even have a special place they meet to investigate these incidences (i.e. The Torch)

They have a local hangout where special functions are held. (the coffee shop or The Talon)

The school colors are even the same (red and yellow).

I dunno, I kinda dislike SV even more now that it doesn't seem like an original idea.

[JB1986]

There are a few similarities between the two shows. The most glaring one I noticed how much the Smallville episode "Labyrinth" is like the Buffy episode "Normal Again." <SPOILER ALERT!> In this episode, Buffy has flashes of herself locked in a mental hospital, and that she has created this fantasy world where she is a hero and must fight these grand creatures. In "Labyrinth" Clark thinks he is locked in a mental hospital where he has told the other patients that he has super-powers, and always fights against these grand villians. Both episodes are good, but Buffy executed the idea in a far better way. Also, The Talon is a little too much like The Bronze (It's where all the kids hang out, and they occassionally have a popular band playing there.) Also, they almost seemed to want to do a Buffy-Angel thing with Clark & Lana (make it seem as if they are destined to be together, then create an obstacle to keep them apart.) Joss Whedon was smart not to stratch the Buffy-Angel relationship too far though, whereas Clark & Lana have been strung out for seven seasons. Enough already!

[InLove_with_Chloe]

I think Al and Miles have been stealing all their lives. Almost nothing on Smallville has been their ideas, IMO. At least none of the good things. There have been parallels with 'Buffy', that's true, but even more so with the X-files, IMO: music by Marc Snow (in the early seasons, he seems to have left now....), and the 'Freak of the week' concept, was clearly taken up from the X-files. The 'feel' of single epis has been stolen quite often, like the already mentioned 'Labyrinth' ('One flew over the cuckoo's nest'), or 'Phantom', where they stole from the 'Exorcist'.

I have to say: I have lost my respect for Al Gough and Miles Millar. They simply have no ideas of their own. What we need is new shows by Joss Whedon and Chris Carter. Desperately.

[cayayofm]

As much as I love Whedon's work I can't claim he has invented his worlds, instead the greatness of Joss has been to take this old existing ideas and re-invent them and turn them into something fresh and unique. Vampires, slayers, old ideas given a spin by turning a blonde valley girl into the slayer. Musicals, silent episodes, taken to a whole new level and places not seen before on TV. He gave a twist to Sci-fi with it western take on it in Firefly and the list goes on.

Al Gough and Miles Millar has not done something remotely similar, it seemed that they would do with the clever idea of Clark in high school and the young friendly Lex, but Smallville has fallen short of potential.

I read a quote once on this site and it make like open my eyes a bit, it said: "Smallville is not a great show, never was and never will be".

[InLove_with_Chloe]

As much as I love Whedon's work I can't claim he has invented his worlds, instead the greatness of Joss has been to take this old existing ideas and re-invent them and turn them into something fresh and unique. Vampires, slayers, old ideas given a spin by turning a blonde valley girl into the slayer. Musicals, silent episodes, taken to a whole new level and places not seen before on TV. He gave a twist to Sci-fi with it western take on it in Firefly and the list goes on.

Al Gough and Miles Millar has not done something remotely similar, it seemed that they would do with the clever idea of Clark in high school and the young friendly Lex, but Smallville has fallen short of potential.

I read a quote once on this site and it make like open my eyes a bit, it said: "Smallville is not a great show, never was and never will be".

How could I not agree to that!!!
:)

[wildenchantress_kt]

I have the entire Buffy series on DVD including the 1992 movie. When I got Smallville seasons 1 - 5 on DVD I noticed similar themes in the episodes e.g.

Bugs: SMALLVILLE 1.2 Metamorphosis - BUFFY 1.4 Teacher's Pet
Invisibility: SMALLVILLE 1.10 Shimmer & 5.20 Fade - BUFFY 1.11 Out of Mind, Out of Sight & 6.11 Gone
Power Loss: SMALLVILLE 1.12 Leech - BUFFY 3.12 Helpless
Lost Youth: SMALLVILLE 1.15 Nicodemus - BUFFY 3.6 Band Candy
Mind Reading: SMALLVILLE 1.16 Stray & 2.8 Ryan - BUFFY 3.18 Earshot
Rebellion: SMALLVILLE 2.4 Red & 2.14 Rush - BUFFY 3.14 Bad Girls
Youth Drainage: SMALLVILLE 2.6 Redux - BUFFY 2.4 Inca Mummy Girl
Clark / Buffy Runaway: SMALLVILLE 3.1 Exile - BUFFY 3.1 Anne
Dreams: SMALLVILLE 3.4 Slumber - BUFFY 4.22 Restless
Flashback Murder Mystery: SMALLVILLE 3.6 Relic - BUFFY 2.19 I Only Have Eyes For You
Flashbacks Relating to Mothers: SMALLVILLE 3.19 Memoria - BUFFY 7.17 Lies My Parents Told Me
Love Spells: SMALLVILLE 4.4 Devoted - BUFFY 2.16 Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered & 7.6 Him
Body Jumping: SMALLVILLE 4.6 Transference - BUFFY 4.16 Who Are You?
Witch craft: SMALLVILLE 4.8 Spell - BUFFY 1.3 The Witch (recurring theme throughout BTVS)
Nightmares: SMALLVILLE 4.10 Scare - BUFFY 1.10 Nightmares
Shotgun Weddings: SMALLVILLE 4.11 Unsafe - BUFFY 4.9 Something Blue
Body Splitting: SMALLVILLE 4.17 Onyx - BUFFY 5.3 The Replacement (don't get confused with Body Jumping)
Amnesia: SMALLVILLE 4.19 Blank - BUFFY 6.8 Tabula Rasa
Main Character Death (Clark / Buffy): SMALLVILLE 5.3 Hidden - BUFFY 5.22 The Gift
Parent Death: SMALLVILLE 5.12 Reckoning - BUFFY 5.16 The Body
Alternate Spatial Periods: SMALLVILLE 6.8 Static - BUFFY 7.3 Same Time Same Place
Insanity: SMALLVILLE 6.12 Labyrinth - BUFFY 6.17 Normal Again
Cage Fighting: SMALLVILLE 6.17 Combat - BUFFY 7.11 Showtime

You could probably find some more similar episodes if you wanted to feel free to add more or debate about the ones I have listed.

[InLove_with_Chloe]

^
Cool, thanks. Very nicely observed.....
You know, I have to admit I only started watching SV after 'Buffy' was cancelled....... out of withdrawal!!!
:lol:

[wildenchantress_kt]

I am in the middle of a Smallville versus Buffy game. Right now I am watching Relic in the Smallville Murder Mystery caterogy. But if anyone can think of anymore please add it to the list.

[cayayofm]

Shotgun Weddings: SMALLVILLE 4.11 Unsafe - BUFFY 4.9 Something Blue



Cool list,....lol.. there is not actual wedding in Something Blue. However both shows had a wedding episode too.

SMALLVILLE 6.16 Promise - BUFFY 6.16 Hell's Bells

and again no one gets married in BUFFY in that episode.:lol:

[wildenchantress_kt]

Well the wedding wasn't even legal in Unsafe. So it is like "close but no cigar". Also in this list I have not really paid much attention to seasons six and seven of SMALLVILLE because I do not have season six on DVD I haven't watched all the episodes.

[6-Super-Man -5]

I like both shows, they are related in alot of ways and they are both interesting. They both have James too.

[knightofkrypton]

I'm season 6 of Buffy now...just finished the musical episode. And so far, I enjoy Buffy much more then SV.
I have to say though, it could be cause I'm biased, as I am a huge Superman fan and find SV falling way short of my expectations.
It just seems to fall even more short because I start watching Buffy a month ago and found way too many parallels.

[Pesk]

Cage Fighting: SMALLVILLE 6.17 Combat - BUFFY 7.11 Showtime


Those 2 episodes don't have much of a connection beyond the fact that they both involve a big fight.

Combat has much more in common with an episode of Angel (1.16 The Ring) - they both involve a main character being forced to fight in an underground fighting arena that they were investigating, against stronger-than-human opponents, and ending with the arena being shut down/destroyed, and the man in charge of the arena being killed by one of the main character's opponents.

[Hopefulsuicide]

its comparisons like that that i prefer - episodes having the same premise is much more indicative of similarity than things like the same super powers

any show with people with super powers is bound to end up having the same ones... thats just obvious

and episodes like 'normal again' where the character is actually in a mental institution dont origionate in Buffy... it's like groundhog day episodes and things like that... they always get pulled out in sci-fi fantasy shows

[slayfan]

Yes there are a lot of similarities but I don't mind as long as they TRY to put an original spin on it. I do think Buffy does it better. Well okay I love everything about Buffy and Smallville only comes in second so I may be biased.

[DontCha]

I have to admit, the main reason that I'm attracted to smallville is because i really loved buffy and Smallvile was a worthy show to watch when buffy ended because its similar and done very well

But im a big fan of both shows right and there are similarities but they are also very different, Buffy was always so upset about her destiny and Clark embraces it thats the massive difference, Buffy longed to be normal, clark accepts it.

and in the end buffy isnt the only slayer, she's free. In the end of smallvile Clark will have accepted his destiny and take up his mantle The arc of both characters couldnt be more different

also during smallvile we all want him to discover his true powers and in buffy we have them constant throughout, she knows everything about herself. .

the concept highschool drama has been around long before buffy but buffy added the supernatural into it and there is something very compelling when theres a normal situation with not so normal characters and if Smallville did something different and went against a successful formula then it would priobably be a flop, Audiences dont adapt to new thins as much as they do similar things its just human nature.

And Smallville IMO, is allowed to do this because the concept of superman and his early life was here long before Buffy.

[knightofkrypton]

I........ Buffy was always so upset about her destiny and Clark embraces it thats the massive difference, Buffy longed to be normal, clark accepts it. Wait, wait wait...I'm sorry, Clark acepts his destiny??? When has this ever happened?? Admittedly, I haven't seen any of Season 7....but every other season I've seen since then, Clark has ALWAYS ran from his destiny so much so that its placed his friends and family in peril.
And as much as Buffy has disliked her calling...she has almost always stepped up to the plate.

Clark only steps up to the plate when he's forced too.



and in the end buffy isnt the only slayer, she's free. In the end of smallvile Clark will have accepted his destiny and take up his mantle The arc of both characters couldnt be more different
Whether or not you consider it Canon *although Joss Whedon does) in Buffy Season 8 Buffy is in no way free. She may have tons of other Slayers but she's still number 1 and she's now like the "Godfather" of all Slayers, Instead of just saving Sunnydale all the time, she now is global.

[Fat Elvis 007]

But im a big fan of both shows right and there are similarities but they are also very different, Buffy was always so upset about her destiny and Clark embraces it thats the massive difference, Buffy longed to be normal, clark accepts it.


Hm...tell me more about this show where Clark accepts his destiny. It sounds much better than "Smallville.":)

Seriously, though, I think Buffy and Clark complain about their destinies a pretty equal amount.

[DontCha]

well, the end of smallvile is most likely where he becomes superman right?

i dunno I've always kinda felt as if smallville would end when Clark decides to become superman/fully becomes superman and moves to Matropolis, willingly become the protector of mankind. Where as buffy ended where it wasnt all piled on her alone. But yes I agree she would always step up to it, but IMO its not because she wanted to, its because she had to. When it came to the people sh loved it was different though

some peeps on this frum really do like to jump on people when they express their opinion. I know things are meant to be debated on a forum but as a newbie around here im feeling slightly intimidated as if im disliked straight away and thats the last thing I want

maybe im coming across as pushy with my opinion..I hope its not coming across as if i see what i think as fact because I dont see it as fact, i see it as an opinion and im sorry if it comes across like im being really pushy..

[Fat Elvis 007]

well, the end of smallvile is most likely where he becomes superman right?

i dunno I've always kinda felt as if smallville would end when Clark decides to become superman/fully becomes superman and moves to Matropolis, willingly become the protector of mankind. Where as buffy ended where it wasnt all piled on her alone. But yes I agree she would always step up to it, but IMO its not because she wanted to, its because she had to. When it came to the people sh loved it was different though

some peeps on this frum really do like to jump on people when they express their opinion. I know things are meant to be debated on a forum but as a newbie around here im feeling slightly intimidated as if im disliked straight away and thats the last thing I want

maybe im coming across as pushy with my opinion..I hope its not coming across as if i see what i think as fact because I dont see it as fact, i see it as an opinion and im sorry if it comes across like im being really pushy..

Sorry if I came off that way. I was just joking with you, but I guess that doesn't translate well on the internet!

I get your point now. I thought you were talking about Clark now, rather than how the show will likely end.

And I don't think you came off as pushy in this thread.

[knightofkrypton]

well, the end of smallvile is most likely where he becomes superman right?

i dunno I've always kinda felt as if smallville would end when Clark decides to become superman/fully becomes superman and moves to Matropolis, willingly become the protector of mankind. Where as buffy ended where it wasnt all piled on her alone. But yes I agree she would always step up to it, but IMO its not because she wanted to, its because she had to. When it came to the people sh loved it was different though Granted, At the End of Buffy it wasn't all piled on her alone.....but if you take into account the canon season 8, she not only granted powers to hundreds of other women, she became the role model and the leader of an entire "army" of people. And I could be wrong but there were many times when she stepped up to the plate when it didn't involve her friends or wen she didn't have too bit she did because of who she was. The instances when Clark does something of that nature is few and far between. And I doubt clark would EVER kill Lana if it meant saving the world (i.e. Buffy killing Angel at the end of Season 2).

Yes, when Smallville ends, Clark is supposed to be Superman, accepting his destiny, etc. But your comment was not about, the future, it was about the current show. And throughout SV's sordid and horrid past, Clark has done nothing but run away from his destiny thus causing hurt and suffering for himself and his loved ones.

My problem is in the "end" of SV, I think theu're going to hand us Clark becoming Superman with no real development of the character into a believable moral and inspirational superhero.

They're going to just give it to us with no honest development and expect us to accept it because, "he's Clark Kent the future Superman".

Buffy may have complained about her life but she was usually more proactive the Clark and ran away much less then Clark. And in the end she was willing to SHARE her power to make a better world and in doing so took on more responsibility.

Clark in SV would gladly give his power away in order to not have to deal with it anymore.





some peeps on this frum really do like to jump on people when they express their opinion. I know things are meant to be debated on a forum but as a newbie around here im feeling slightly intimidated as if im disliked straight away and thats the last thing I want

maybe im coming across as pushy with my opinion..I hope its not coming across as if i see what i think as fact because I dont see it as fact, i see it as an opinion and im sorry if it comes across like im being really pushy..

I honestly apologize if it seems that way. As a newbie it must be overwhelming. But honestly, it is about debate and if one can come up with instances or proof that show different then I am always willing to admit I'm wrong.

[wildenchantress_kt]

After seeing this week's episode of Smallville I was just like to add this to the similar episodes list.

Alternate Universe: SMALLVILLE 7.18 Apocalypse - BUFFY 3.9 The Wish

[SweetOne]

Originally Posted by DontCha
Buffy was always so upset about her destiny and Clark embraces it thats the massive difference, Buffy longed to be normal, clark accepts it.

Yeah.....I read this and I was like "Hold on a second! WHAT??" And I was totally ready to put my two cents in but I then I found that these two guys said EXACTLY what I was ready to.


Wait, wait wait...I'm sorry, Clark acepts his destiny??? When has this ever happened?? Admittedly, I haven't seen any of Season 7....but every other season I've seen since then, Clark has ALWAYS ran from his destiny so much so that its placed his friends and family in peril.
And as much as Buffy has disliked her calling...she has almost always stepped up to the plate.

Clark only steps up to the plate when he's forced too.

Trust me, Clark is no different, even in S7. I swear the guy only fights evil when there is absolutely no other option, like you said "when he's forced to". *scoffs* It's disgusting.


Hm...tell me more about this show where Clark accepts his destiny. It sounds much better than "Smallville.":)

LOL...*sighs* Ahhhh....I love it.

Thank you boys. You both took the words right out of my mouth. :)

[Clark/Lois-fan]

Well, I LOVE both shows, and I really don't mind the similarities between them. I just smile when I notice them :)

[Kryptochloe]

I have the entire Buffy series on DVD including the 1992 movie. When I got Smallville seasons 1 - 5 on DVD I noticed similar themes in the episodes e.g.

Bugs: SMALLVILLE 1.2 Metamorphosis - BUFFY 1.4 Teacher's Pet
Invisibility: SMALLVILLE 1.10 Shimmer & 5.20 Fade - BUFFY 1.11 Out of Mind, Out of Sight & 6.11 Gone
Power Loss: SMALLVILLE 1.12 Leech - BUFFY 3.12 Helpless
Lost Youth: SMALLVILLE 1.15 Nicodemus - BUFFY 3.6 Band Candy
Mind Reading: SMALLVILLE 1.16 Stray & 2.8 Ryan - BUFFY 3.18 Earshot
Rebellion: SMALLVILLE 2.4 Red & 2.14 Rush - BUFFY 3.14 Bad Girls
Youth Drainage: SMALLVILLE 2.6 Redux - BUFFY 2.4 Inca Mummy Girl
Clark / Buffy Runaway: SMALLVILLE 3.1 Exile - BUFFY 3.1 Anne
Dreams: SMALLVILLE 3.4 Slumber - BUFFY 4.22 Restless
Flashback Murder Mystery: SMALLVILLE 3.6 Relic - BUFFY 2.19 I Only Have Eyes For You
Flashbacks Relating to Mothers: SMALLVILLE 3.19 Memoria - BUFFY 7.17 Lies My Parents Told Me
Love Spells: SMALLVILLE 4.4 Devoted - BUFFY 2.16 Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered & 7.6 Him
Body Jumping: SMALLVILLE 4.6 Transference - BUFFY 4.16 Who Are You?
Witch craft: SMALLVILLE 4.8 Spell - BUFFY 1.3 The Witch (recurring theme throughout BTVS)
Nightmares: SMALLVILLE 4.10 Scare - BUFFY 1.10 Nightmares
Shotgun Weddings: SMALLVILLE 4.11 Unsafe - BUFFY 4.9 Something Blue
Body Splitting: SMALLVILLE 4.17 Onyx - BUFFY 5.3 The Replacement (don't get confused with Body Jumping)
Amnesia: SMALLVILLE 4.19 Blank - BUFFY 6.8 Tabula Rasa
Main Character Death (Clark / Buffy): SMALLVILLE 5.3 Hidden - BUFFY 5.22 The Gift
Parent Death: SMALLVILLE 5.12 Reckoning - BUFFY 5.16 The Body
Alternate Spatial Periods: SMALLVILLE 6.8 Static - BUFFY 7.3 Same Time Same Place
Insanity: SMALLVILLE 6.12 Labyrinth - BUFFY 6.17 Normal Again
Cage Fighting: SMALLVILLE 6.17 Combat - BUFFY 7.11 Showtime

You could probably find some more similar episodes if you wanted to feel free to add more or debate about the ones I have listed.


Great job! Thanks for posting! I do have noticed many similarities between the two shows. The most evident I think is "Labyrinth" and "Normal Again".

[elw82078]

I love Buffy and Smallville both great shows to enjoy watching til the sun rises!

[Alania]

They're going to just give it to us with no honest development and expect us to accept it because, "he's Clark Kent the future Superman".

They do exactly the same with Lois and Clark; they expect us to just take it, crappy as it is the development, believable or not the "love" just because it is meant to be, according to 71 years of mythology. And it's always a stab in the heart to me when clois fans use mythology, comics or L&C show to endorse the Lois and Clark in Smallville, when the similarities are so little; just the bantering and Lois dismissing Clark and this latter is sometimes very unfair to Clark, as inept as he may be.

Anyway, i can point out some differences between the two shows:
- it is a shame to say this but Buffy is a much bigger hero than SVClark, she never actually thought of being the chosen one as a gift, she had conflicts, but she went down to business from the very beggining, she knew it was her duty to protect mankind from the forces of evil and she never hesitated in taking down the villains or becoming friends with them.
- sidekicks: Buffy had them, they were loyal friends, honored the slaying code and never acted upon the "to protect Buffy" sort of premise.
- there were no lifetime angst love triangles, if Buffy was with Spike, it was only Spike, if Buffy was with angel, it was only Angel, if Willow was with Oz, it was only Oz (except when she kissed Xander, but there was never an angst triangle), and that worked for all other characters.
- there were no problems focusing the main characters or showing who the real hero was, who was in charge, it all revolved around Buffy -even when she was sharing the spotlight with another chosen slayer- and without ever taking the others for granted.

[Hopefulsuicide]

- there were no lifetime angst love triangles, if Buffy was with Spike, it was only Spike, if Buffy was with angel, it was only Angel, if Willow was with Oz, it was only Oz (except when she kissed Xander, but there was never an angst triangle), and that worked for all other characters.


Well the whole first season, Willow loved Xander, Xander loved Buffy... i'd call that a triangle... and the whole Willow/Xander thing went on for ages. When she first found out about Cordelia she was horribly jelous, then when she was in the hospital at the end of season 2, she said his name just before Oz walked in, and then Season three saw them hooking up behind their partners backs... There most definitely was some loved triangly angst there.

Other love triangle moments (though mostly just about the jelousy, not the angst)

-Buffy/Riley/Sam (his wife)
-Angel/Buffy/Riley (Yoko Factor)
-Angel/Buffy/Spike (End of Days/Chosen)

[Alania]

^^When you put it this way, i gotta agree with you, it was a triangle with Buffy, Willow and Xander. At least, Xander loving Buffy and Willow loving Xander -while being best friends with Buffy- was a platonic thing (till the day Xander saw Willow in that black fancy dress) and nothing unbearable like smallville is, that sucks all the energy out to the point of deviating the focus of the show! And Buffy never gave Xander a bit of hope they could ever be an item, she was very clear about where they stood, unlike Smallville's Clark, who keeps all girls hopes alive, he can't be firm where he stands.

I've never really bought Cordelia and Xander, have you? (Xander and Anya were much better!), i had the feeling it was the only solution they found to make Xander stop pining for Buffy. And even that Buffy was a better show, cause they came up with a solution to stop all the pining, hooking Xander up with Cordy and Willow with Oz. Chloe stopped pining a bit six years later, with Aaron's character entrance and Clark, eight years later.

[Fat Elvis 007]

I've never really bought Cordelia and Xander, have you? (Xander and Anya were much better!)

I feel the opposite way. Cordelia and Xander may seem like opposites at first, but they really are a lot alike. Both are extremely snarky and obnoxious, and I think both enjoyed their verbal judo even before they got together and starting swapping spit as well as insults. Both of them seem to have a need for that kind of conflict, probably because of the examples of their parents (we never learn much about Cordy's parents other than her mom stays in bed all day and her dad cheated on his taxes, but for some reason I can't imagine them as a happy couple). Plus there was the thrill element. Not just the dangerous situations they were always in together, although Cordy does say in "Doppelgangland" that that was a factor, but also the thrill of being caught. For someone who cherished her popularity so much, Cordy always seemed to go out of her way to jeopardize that position when she helped out the Scoobies. I think that deep down, she wanted something more, and I think she saw something in Xander that she knew she wanted.

I never understood Xanya for a second. A lot of that has the do with the fact that Anya was an unrepentant mass murderer. She never showed any remorse for her crimes, and even gloated about them for years after she became human. Even though she was an entertaining, immensely quotable character, she tarnishes Xander and the other characters who all accepted her so easily. And it always seemed to me like Xander only kept her around because no other girl was showing interest in him. It was just sad. I also don't have any idea what Anya, who has apparently always hated men and originally came to Sunnydale to punish Xander, saw in him. I don' think the writers ever put any effort into making the audience buy their relationship. Plus, their relationship wasn't snarky and fun like C/X, where it felt like a relationship between two equals. It was usually "Anya says something blunt, Xander looks embarrassed and condescends to her." Bleh. I just wanted to strangle them both sometimes.

That said, I love "I'll Never Tell" more than is healthy, so I don't know if I would completely write out their relationship if I had the chance. I would just make Anya a more sympathetic character and clear up why exactly the two liked each other.

[Lex Dance]

Some of the Xander/Anya has made me howl - particularly the S3 finale! Is "I'll Never Tell" from the start of S4, Chris? I can't tell without looking at the DVDs (I don't find Buffy titles as memorable as Smallville episodes).

[Fat Elvis 007]

Some of the Xander/Anya has made me howl - particularly the S3 finale!

I really liked Anya and her interactions with Xander in S3. My problems come in when Xander decides to start an actual relationship with this girl without her showing any remorse for killing all those people, and with no comment from any of the other Scoobies about how wrong this is. I also don't like how she went from someone who was socially aware enough to manipulate both Cordelia and Willow, to someone who didn't know what a high-five was.


Is "I'll Never Tell" from the start of S4, Chris? I can't tell without looking at the DVDs (I don't find Buffy titles as memorable as Smallville episodes).

It's not an episode title, it's the name of Xander and Anya's song in the musical episode. Have you gotten that far in the series yet?

[Lex Dance]

Not yet (although as my wife is a musical nut, we can't wait for that one! She's in an AmDram performance of the Wizard of Oz as I type). So far I've seen the 3rd episodes of Buffy S4 and Angel S1 - things have slowed down as a result of hectic lifestyles of late!
Apologies for going into Angel territory, but as we're discussing Cordelia I must say that she is absolutely fantastic in it. I've always liked her in Buffy (despite sometimes having trouble with the whole "why would she go for Xander?" debate), but she's coming into her own in Angel, without having to rely on the Ashley syndrome to make her funny. The Lois of the Buffyverse, anyone?

[Alania]

I never understood Xanya for a second. A lot of that has the do with the fact that Anya was an unrepentant mass murderer. She never showed any remorse for her crimes, and even gloated about them for years after she became human. Even though she was an entertaining, immensely quotable character, she tarnishes Xander and the other characters who all accepted her so easily. And it always seemed to me like Xander only kept her around because no other girl was showing interest in him. It was just sad. I also don't have any idea what Anya, who has apparently always hated men and originally came to Sunnydale to punish Xander, saw in him. I don' think the writers ever put any effort into making the audience buy their relationship. Plus, their relationship wasn't snarky and fun like C/X, where it felt like a relationship between two equals. It was usually "Anya says something blunt, Xander looks embarrassed and condescends to her." Bleh. I just wanted to strangle them both sometimes.

That said, I love "I'll Never Tell" more than is healthy, so I don't know if I would completely write out their relationship if I had the chance. I would just make Anya a more sympathetic character and clear up why exactly the two liked each other.

ITA with your assessment on Anya, here! I was actually wth when they turned a demon into a very friendly human and suddenly part of the gang, fighting the dark force, her original world, but nothing was ever normal about that show anyway. And, they had to fill in the void left by Cordelia, so maybe that was a factor. Another thing was that Buffy couldn't judge Xander for engaging in a relationship with her, since she had done pretty much the same with Angel and we all knew Buffy was pretty good in believe in the good side of demons coughsangelcoughs and give them a shot. Nevertherless, Anya had what she deserved in the end of season 6 :p.

But relationship wise, i think Xander and Anya connected better, thought i never saw love there, just a hanging out time, having some fun in the middle of that craziness they lived and see where it went. I used to "ship" Willow and Xander, but then willow turned out to be gay so, i wasn't caring much anymore. I've always thought Cordelia was a lot for him to handle, just like i've always thought Angel was a lot for Buffy to handle and that's why Cordelia and Angel worked out so well in the spin-off. But, i don't wanna start any shipper war here, for the love of God, we have smallville area for that! :p


Apologies for going into Angel territory, but as we're discussing Cordelia I must say that she is absolutely fantastic in it. I've always liked her in Buffy (despite sometimes having trouble with the whole "why would she go for Xander?" debate), but she's coming into her own in Angel, without having to rely on the Ashley syndrome to make her funny. The Lois of the Buffyverse, anyone?

I've never cared much for Cordelia while in BTVS, she was the bi...h who made a hobby out of picking on Buffy and Willow, always with that snob attitude, even after being saved a few times by Buffy. But then in Angel, she's grown up, she was more mature, she lost the "i'm popular" attitude and was left only with her good side, the snarky and good-natured one, trying to survive on her own and i became her fan! I wouldn't go that far and say she was the Lois from Buffyverse, cause Cordelia was the typical "damsel in distress" and didn't like field work, she'd rather stay indoor, taking care of paper work for Angel (though she never denied when asked for help by one of the guys) and she wasn't resourceful like Lois, but she had the snarkiness, the determination, the courage and dismissive attitude towards the "hero" and her interaction with Angel wasn't surrounded by the angst that had in Angel-Buffy, something like Clark-Lois X Clark-Lana. But after she was abducted and came back with no memory, the cool relationship was lost.:\

[Jaderoyale]

I have the entire Buffy series on DVD including the 1992 movie. When I got Smallville seasons 1 - 5 on DVD I noticed similar themes in the episodes e.g.

Bugs: SMALLVILLE 1.2 Metamorphosis - BUFFY 1.4 Teacher's Pet
Invisibility: SMALLVILLE 1.10 Shimmer & 5.20 Fade - BUFFY 1.11 Out of Mind, Out of Sight & 6.11 Gone
Power Loss: SMALLVILLE 1.12 Leech - BUFFY 3.12 Helpless
Lost Youth: SMALLVILLE 1.15 Nicodemus - BUFFY 3.6 Band Candy
Mind Reading: SMALLVILLE 1.16 Stray & 2.8 Ryan - BUFFY 3.18 Earshot
Rebellion: SMALLVILLE 2.4 Red & 2.14 Rush - BUFFY 3.14 Bad Girls
Youth Drainage: SMALLVILLE 2.6 Redux - BUFFY 2.4 Inca Mummy Girl
Clark / Buffy Runaway: SMALLVILLE 3.1 Exile - BUFFY 3.1 Anne
Dreams: SMALLVILLE 3.4 Slumber - BUFFY 4.22 Restless
Flashback Murder Mystery: SMALLVILLE 3.6 Relic - BUFFY 2.19 I Only Have Eyes For You
Flashbacks Relating to Mothers: SMALLVILLE 3.19 Memoria - BUFFY 7.17 Lies My Parents Told Me
Love Spells: SMALLVILLE 4.4 Devoted - BUFFY 2.16 Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered & 7.6 Him
Body Jumping: SMALLVILLE 4.6 Transference - BUFFY 4.16 Who Are You?
Witch craft: SMALLVILLE 4.8 Spell - BUFFY 1.3 The Witch (recurring theme throughout BTVS)
Nightmares: SMALLVILLE 4.10 Scare - BUFFY 1.10 Nightmares
Shotgun Weddings: SMALLVILLE 4.11 Unsafe - BUFFY 4.9 Something Blue
Body Splitting: SMALLVILLE 4.17 Onyx - BUFFY 5.3 The Replacement (don't get confused with Body Jumping)
Amnesia: SMALLVILLE 4.19 Blank - BUFFY 6.8 Tabula Rasa
Main Character Death (Clark / Buffy): SMALLVILLE 5.3 Hidden - BUFFY 5.22 The Gift
Parent Death: SMALLVILLE 5.12 Reckoning - BUFFY 5.16 The Body
Alternate Spatial Periods: SMALLVILLE 6.8 Static - BUFFY 7.3 Same Time Same Place
Insanity: SMALLVILLE 6.12 Labyrinth - BUFFY 6.17 Normal Again
Cage Fighting: SMALLVILLE 6.17 Combat - BUFFY 7.11 Showtime

You could probably find some more similar episodes if you wanted to feel free to add more or debate about the ones I have listed.

Thank you so much for taking the time to do this!
I've always had the similiarities in my head but have never written them down. The one's that always stick out to me are; Labyrinth/Normal Again and Relic/I Only Have Eyes For You

----- Added 4 Minutes later -----


Some of the Xander/Anya has made me howl - particularly the S3 finale! Is "I'll Never Tell" from the start of S4, Chris? I can't tell without looking at the DVDs (I don't find Buffy titles as memorable as Smallville episodes).

I'll Never Tell is from S6, Once More With Feeling.

[Fat Elvis 007]

Another thing was that Buffy couldn't judge Xander for engaging in a relationship with her, since she had done pretty much the same with Angel and we all knew Buffy was pretty good in believe in the good side of demons coughsangelcoughs and give them a shot.

But Angel actually showed remorse and dedicated his life to fighting evil in order to repent. Anya didn't do either of those things, and actually gloated about the people she murdered. Big difference, IMO, and Buffy would not have been hypocritical to point that out. (Post-Spuffy, yes, but not before then). Xander also should have apologized for being so harsh on Bangel. But then, by this point in the series the writers had decided to be very selective in when to use continuity, in-character behavior and logic and when they would sacrifice those things for jokes. Anya and Spike were the two main symptoms of this, IMO.


But, i don't wanna start any shipper war here, for the love of God, we have smallville area for that! :p

LOL, yeah, I'm not really into shipping anyone on Buffy. There are some relationships I like and some I loathe, but I always cared about other elements of the show far more. Maybe it's because I started watching BtVS after it had ended, so I already knew who ended up with who and didn't get too invested in any one ship.