The Jor-El in this show is a failure

[xrayvision]

It made no sense that Jor-El trapped Clark in the FOS when Brainiac & Bizarro got loose. That just makes him look really bad. I was really hoping that Bizarro trapped Clark. That's just crappy writing. Trapping Clark and then releasing him was pointless. He's still a BDA. They showed the FOS all dark and lifeless and now they show it all alive & well. Very inconsistent. And Jor-El who usually knows everything that's going to happen and even predicted Zod's return before it happened had no idea that Brainiac & Bizarro were loose.

I'm very disappointed in that aspect of this episode. It was great except for that.

[aqgalaxy]

Well to make up for Jor-El, He released Clark when he learned the Phantom was there, so it wasn't like that was part of the punishment.

[Superboy2]

But if Clark didn't have any training and he was there for a month, what was the point? Was it so he would stay there until everyone he knew died of old age and he could complete his destiny?

[MetroGirl06]

Yeah, that was a bit of a plot hole. Maybe thats how kryptonians discipline their children? :D

[jimmyolsenblues]

I have been mad at jor-el since that woman died, you remember the woman who pretended to be someone , I forgot her name and the episode ,and jor-el killed her. I hated him/computer since then.
All talk, except for saving clark's life in season 5, ty jor-el

[xrayvision]

This was my only problem in this episode. I also wish they explained Brainiac's creation for once and how Jor-El & Dax-Ur were both involved in it. I wanted Clark to finally ask some questions. He's such an ignorant BDA.

[Superboy2]

Considering Dax-Ur would be alot older than Jor-El since hes been on Earth for a hundred years at least. Yet he knew about the portals being destroyed.

[Eri-El]

It made no sense that Jor-El trapped Clark in the FOS when Brainiac & Bizarro got loose. That just makes him look really bad. I was really hoping that Bizarro trapped Clark. That's just crappy writing. Trapping Clark and then releasing him was pointless. He's still a BDA. They showed the FOS all dark and lifeless and now they show it all alive & well. Very inconsistent. And Jor-El who usually knows everything that's going to happen and even predicted Zod's return before it happened had no idea that Brainiac & Bizarro were loose.

I'm very disappointed in that aspect of this episode. It was great except for that.


OK What If.......Jor-El froze Clark knowing that Bizarro escaped. Knowing that Bizarro would try to take over Clark's life, and sleep with Lana, the true ONE thing that is holding him back from his training and his destiny. Knowing it would possibly put a BIG crater between Clana. ?????? IMO

[xrayvision]

Eri-El, if that's true, then Jor-El himself is a maniac not fit to give anyone advice. He had no idea what Bizarro would do. He fried someone to death for helping him.

I think it was a bad move on Jor-El's part and really took away the month's worth of built up suspense of how Clark would escape from the crystal.

[Ginx]

I think that it was a bit of a wth moment as in it would have been good if it was explained why Jor-El froze CK in the first place. Replaying 'there will be consequences' every time CK fk's up tells us nothing.

I thought, maybe, that Jor-El froze CK 1) so he could think about his actions and 2) to prevent CK from doing anything else stupid for a bit.

Jor-El maybe is not paying as much attention to the villians at large because he was focused on CK....being a big block of ice I guess has it's disadvantages lol....

Wonder what happened to MM for Bizarro to get released......

[xrayvision]

Wonder what happened to MM for Bizarro to get released......

Nothing. MM probably left Bizarro in a sunny spot that wasn't so sunny once the eclipse hit. I doubt he was playing watchdog since he did interact with Clark after trapping Bizarro in Bizarro.

[Saber]

It made no sense that Jor-El trapped Clark in the FOS when Brainiac & Bizarro got loose. That just makes him look really bad. I was really hoping that Bizarro trapped Clark. That's just crappy writing. Trapping Clark and then releasing him was pointless. He's still a BDA. They showed the FOS all dark and lifeless and now they show it all alive & well. Very inconsistent. And Jor-El who usually knows everything that's going to happen and even predicted Zod's return before it happened had no idea that Brainiac & Bizarro were loose.

I'm very disappointed in that aspect of this episode. It was great except for that.

I so agree, I think they really tarnished Jor-el, no matter what they do now he can’t be redeemed on any level. He has shown an iron fist but not a warm heart to his son.

[Ginx]

Nothing. MM probably left Bizarro in a sunny spot that wasn't so sunny once the eclipse hit. I doubt he was playing watchdog since he did interact with Clark after trapping Bizarro in Bizarro.


uhm...you mean like that crappy Nuclear Man and Superman fight on the moon? Where Superman took away the sunlight? Just the opposite - MM put him right next to the sun.... I thought Bizarro had a one way ticket to the Phantom Zone? Oh well, I guess it's 50-50 if they'll explain it....ever....

[xrayvision]

Chloe said he was taken to the sunny side of Mars, but Mars doesn't have a side that's permanently sunny (it has days & nights like Earth). This could be literal or just a figure of speech. But even if it was a literal comment from her and it did turn night, Bizarro would be exposed to constant sunlight if he left Mars.

So MM didn't need to watch him constantly. There's no doubt in my mind that he returned during the eclipse. It wasn't a normal eclipse. The sun was blocked by water molecules (as Chloe said) somewhere before its rays reached Earth. Everything in the solar system from Earth onward did not get sunlight. Since Mars is the next planet after Earth, it was completely dark there too and if Bizarro escaped Mars at that point, there would be no sunlight hitting him even after he left Mars and approached Earth during the eclipse.

[Eri-El]

Eri-El, if that's true, then Jor-El himself is a maniac not fit to give anyone advice. He had no idea what Bizarro would do. He fried someone to death for helping him.

I think it was a bad move on Jor-El's part and really took away the month's worth of built up suspense of how Clark would escape from the crystal.


Well it could be true......When Clark asked Jor-El "what happened to dedicating your life to help others? Jor-El replied "That is not my mission". So, Jor-El would have known that people could have gotten hurt knowing Bizarro was out there when he froze Clark.

[xrayvision]

Jor-El as I pointed out in another post, also seems moronic. He knew about Bizarro's weakness to sunlight and knew about the eclipse and couldn't realize that the circumstances were perfect for Bizarro's return.

This just further justifies why they should have made Bizarro be the one to trap Clark by shutting down Jor-El (explaining why the FOS was so dark in Gemini).

[pacofajita]

Super time out!

[dru-zod2501]

all the WTF feelings aside, I want to see some "consequences" between Clark and Jor-El. Clark is an idiot yes, but that kind of punishment is overkill should not just be forgotten. Any empathy Clark might have had toward his Kryptonian family should be all but gone

[xrayvision]

If Jor-El wanted to punish Clark, he should have re-released Clark's Kal-El side and have him give Clark the long-deserved spanking/buttkicking instead and have that be the training. Though I would rather have that happen voluntarily with Clark's consent/initiation.

[Theshadow129x]

It made no sense that Jor-El trapped Clark in the FOS when Brainiac & Bizarro got loose. That just makes him look really bad. I was really hoping that Bizarro trapped Clark. That's just crappy writing. Trapping Clark and then releasing him was pointless. He's still a BDA. They showed the FOS all dark and lifeless and now they show it all alive & well. Very inconsistent. And Jor-El who usually knows everything that's going to happen and even predicted Zod's return before it happened had no idea that Brainiac & Bizarro were loose.

I'm very disappointed in that aspect of this episode. It was great except for that.

I agree. It makes no sense.

[pacofajita]

Clark is the kind of strong-willed child which discipline doesn't work on. He needed an ass whipping. Jor-El should have tossed him in the Phantom Zone for a while and been whipped by bullies.

[Theshadow129x]

Yea but teh thing is that Jor-el should have downloaded some knowledgte into clark the whole time he was frozen to get him to become the Clark we actually want to see. Freezing him for months did nothing to further who he will become, all it will eventually do is add more angst and animosity towards Clark and Jor-el, which is dumb.

[xrayvision]

Tossing him in the Phantom Zone would only mean more prisoners getting sucked back to Earth when he escapes. I want his Kal-El half to kick his ass very badly.

----- Added 41 Seconds later -----


Yea but teh thing is that Jor-el should have downloaded some knowledgte into clark the whole time he was frozen to get him to become the Clark we actually want to see. Freezing him for months did nothing to further who he will become, all it will eventually do is add more angst and animosity towards Clark and Jor-el, which is dumb.

Doing that would just further show what a failure Smallville's Superman would be because he would have been unable to start his training on his own free will, making Superman a product of Jor-El.

[Theshadow129x]

^ I dont think tehy should bring in Kal because we got Bizarro and Bizarro is, in a sense, what Kal is: someone that will accept what they are and achieve their ultimate goal and destiny. With Bizarro on the show, he told Clark things out loud that Clark never wanted to admit to himself which sort of helps in a way but Clark is in full denial of who he really is and what he wants.

[pacofajita]

Tossing him in the Phantom Zone would only mean more prisoners getting sucked back to Earth when he escapes.

Only if Clark breaks out. If he were drawn out by an outside influence, only he would leave. But I doubt TPTB did that much research from the comics. :rolleyes:

[Theshadow129x]

Tossing him in the Phantom Zone would only mean more prisoners getting sucked back to Earth when he escapes. I want his Kal-El half to kick his ass very badly.

----- Added 41 Seconds later -----



Doing that would just further show what a failure Smallville's Superman would be because he would have been unable to start his training on his own free will, making Superman a product of Jor-El.

But the Clark in smallville is a complete failure. he doesnt want to save anyone outside of people in his life he's afraid of being alone. They keep shoving the fact that he is to take up his destiny but it will only happen when Lana is gone. Thats what they have been showing us. he could never be superman. Period. Its clear to me now.

[pacofajita]

Clark-as-Superman from Earth 1 needs to come and whip Clark's ass, then force him to never embarrass himself again by keeping him on the farm forever. :lol:

[xrayvision]

But the Clark in smallville is a complete failure. he doesnt want to save anyone outside of people in his life he's afraid of being alone. They keep shoving the fact that he is to take up his destiny but it will only happen when Lana is gone. Thats what they have been showing us. he could never be superman. Period. Its clear to me now.

That's why I've been saying the best thing for them to have done is to put Clark in a situation where he would be in a bad situation against Zod & Brainiac or Brainiac & Bizarro where he would be forced to release his Kal-El side as a temporary ally to beat the evil villians. Then once that's over, he would have to face his alternate self (Kal-El) and stop him as he is living up to his destiny and ruling humans with force. By this, I mean Kal-El would not be evil, but wouldn't be a great hero with morals like Superman. He would badly beat up & injure criminals to restore peace and do things that Superman wouldn't. And Clark would be put into a situation where he would finally realize that preventing the pain of others by stopping and learning how to overpower and beat Kal-El in battle is more important to him than being with Lana.

He needs to beat a super tough foe, and Kal-El is the one rival who I think can kick the crap out of any villian ever seen on this show. I think beating someone as tough as Kal-El is a must if he's ever to survive one encounter with Darkseid, who is so much tougher.

[pacofajita]

I think Clark needs to go to the FOS and sit down and have a real conversation with Jor-El. No defensiveness. Just a straight out explanation for everything. But Clark is just so turned off by even the idea of talking to him.

[xrayvision]

I think Clark needs to go to the FOS and sit down and have a real conversation with Jor-El. No defensiveness. Just a straight out explanation for everything. But Clark is just so turned off by even the idea of talking to him.

Unless Jor-El makes a projection of himself as Lana.

[Spirit Detective]

I cannot believe Clark was on ice for a month doing nothing. He could have trained instead of being grounded.

[Superboy2]

Exactly. Unless he doesn't realize yet that he had some training and it doesn't surface until later.

[Theshadow129x]

I think Clark needs to go to the FOS and sit down and have a real conversation with Jor-El. No defensiveness. Just a straight out explanation for everything. But Clark is just so turned off by even the idea of talking to him.

true but they won't do it that because they dont understand the father like figure the voic is supposed to be. hE IS SUPPOSED to bring guidance to Clark and yet he comes off as a tyrant because Al/Miles dont understand who the character is and his true significance. I'm disappointed with the character build of this show with exception of Lex. They got the villain right but the heroes all wrong.

[ginnyfan]

Super time out!

LOL!

Hopefully it will turn out that Clark was actually learning something while encased in ice. Otherwise yeah... it's pretty pointless.

[SV'S_immortal_hero]

jor-el and clark are as bad as each other when it comes to discussing things

jor-el releases and instructs clark to defeat bizarro yet jor-el never says how to do it

later clark goes to find lionel (i know he was actually brainiac) jor-els assistant basically and asks lionel how to defeat bizarro lionel/brainiac instructs clark to use blue-k

why didnt jor-el simply tell clark this upon his release, not just let clark walk away from the fortress scratching his head

[superpal1]

I was hoping that Jor-el froze Clark into the Fortress to force training on him. When he was let loose and no training given was evident, I was really dissapointed. All Jorel did was freeze Clark and stop him from saving or helping people that needed him.

[savingpeoplething]

It made no sense that Jor-El trapped Clark in the FOS when Brainiac & Bizarro got loose.

No, it really didn't.
I thought maybe that would have had Jor-El training Clark or something, but he was just stuck there in the ice, frozen, not doing anything productive.
For all the times Jor-El wants to train Clark, why wouldn't he have taken the opportunity to do so?


I was really hoping that Bizarro trapped Clark.

That would have actually made more sense to me because it would have helped explain how Bizarro knew to take over Clark's life because he saw Clark all trapped in the ice.

But, then, they never explained how Bizarro got free from wherever Manhunter put him, so it's just another one of those things we just have to accept, which really stinks.

[jimmyolsenblues]

someone else mentioned the decision by jor-el to trap and then release clark, could have been expounded on , (they could have cut back on bizalana scenes to make up for Clark vs Jor-El interaction).
They just went too quickly over Jor-El decision and methodology to trap clark.

[Kal-ed]

I dont care about Clark being traped in the FOS, but he should have been stuck in the training light beam, like the one when Chloe interrupted, I think it was in Arrival; what a bunch of wasted time.

[GuardianAngel]

If Jor-El wanted to punish Clark, he should have re-released Clark's Kal-El side and have him give Clark the long-deserved spanking/buttkicking instead and have that be the training. Though I would rather have that happen voluntarily with Clark's consent/initiation.

Releasing Kal-el would have been pointless.
Seeing as Jor-el had nothing to do with Bizarro's return, I suppose Jor-el wanted Clark to understand what would happen if he kept disobeying him. People would die, the world would turn to caos and probably all sort of aliens would try to rule it.
From what I understood, Jor-el wanted to keep Clark trapped in the FOS for quite a long time, but Bizarro showed up and he had to release Clark to take care of the threat. Because Jor-el sent Clark to Earth to save the planet from a destiny very similar to Krypton's (as Raya said in "Fallout") and Clark seemed more interested in being stubborn and pretending to make decisions based too much on his emotions (especially the most twisted ones).

[jimmyolsenblues]

I would love to see Kal-EL vs Bizarro, are you kidding me?
Evil Clark vs Evil Clark, nothing ....nothing would have been better for me.

[MixTKO]

Bizarro said to Brainiac when they first meet that his Martian friend took him prisoner. So it was Jor-el telling MM what to do not him acting on his own. Jor-el will never earn his son's trust that way.

[LoisJoanneKent]

Clark will never learn his lesson and accept his destiny as long as Lana is on the farm making him blueberry pancakes! The only wat it seems, for Clark to become Superman, is to have Lana take the nearest train to Shanghai....and saty there!!!

[biggkoz]

I liked the line "what are you going to lecture me to death" haha

[GuardianAngel]

I would love to see Kal-EL vs Bizarro, are you kidding me?
Evil Clark vs Evil Clark, nothing ....nothing would have been better for me.

It would have been nice, but Kal-el's gone and Jor-el isn't going to bring him back. That part of CK's journey ended when the FOS was built and in the new one CK is supposed to make decisions based on his judgment and experience... unfortunately he seems to be a failure in this sense... unless the ice cube experience managed to teach him something. We'll have to see in the next episodes.

[Dustmite]

Jor-El on Smallville is absurd. I'm hoping it's revealed that the AI became corrupted somehow because most of his actions make no sense at all.

[xrayvision]

I would love to see Kal-EL vs Bizarro, are you kidding me?
Evil Clark vs Evil Clark, nothing ....nothing would have been better for me.

Kal-El is not evil. He is not a true ideal hero like Clark, but he's not a killer/murderer like Zod or even a maniac like Zor-El. He however is ruthless and cold and would let people die to stop evil, which Superman never, ever does. Superman always allows the villian to clobber him when the villian puts humans in danger so he can save the humans. Kal-El wouldn't do that, but wouldn't kill people either (at least not for reasons other than capital punishment, which is unclear whether or not he believes in it).

But I'd love to see it. I would rather see him fight Clark though because the only way Clark would ever win is to grow the hell up and become what we have waited so long for.

[TKFlash]

Jor-El was far from a failure, but that was very inconsistent.

[DarkseidNow]

The problem with this show is that they have made it seem that once Clark receives his training from Jor-El then he will leave the Fortress as Superman.

That's friggin stupid and a big problem I had with the first Superman movie (which I did enjoy nontheless)

This will not making becoming Superman Clark's choice, but the product of his father's machinations.

[xrayvision]

No, it really didn't.
I thought maybe that would have had Jor-El training Clark or something, but he was just stuck there in the ice, frozen, not doing anything productive.
For all the times Jor-El wants to train Clark, why wouldn't he have taken the opportunity to do so?

See, as long as it would be explained as Jor-El being the one who trapped Clark, it's a no-win situation. If Jor-El traps Clark without training him, then it's pointless. If Jor-El traps Clark to train him, then we have him forcing training on Clark and a huge part of (what wll later be) Superman being forced on him and being Jor-El's will. I think both of these are horrible circumstances. Bizarro should have been the one responsible. The FOS was all dark.


That would have actually made more sense to me because it would have helped explain how Bizarro knew to take over Clark's life because he saw Clark all trapped in the ice.

But, then, they never explained how Bizarro got free from wherever Manhunter put him, so it's just another one of those things we just have to accept, which really stinks.

Yes. It sounded so stupid how Bizarro assumed Clark dead. What on Earth would have killed him? Bizarro seemed very dumb & ignorant. He didn't even bother checking the FOS until Chloe/Lana told him. And he didn't care to find out why there was an unnatural eclipse.

We're supposed to assume that Bizarro returned due to the eclipse. Chloe or Lois said that the eclipse was caused by water molecules blocking out the sun's rays. Since Earth is the first planet from the sun that has water, I believe that a cloud of thick water vapor formed not far from Earth's atmosphere and blocked the sun from getting to Earth or any smaller planets after Earth, which Mars is. Chloe made a comment about Bizarro being placed on the sunny side of Mars by the MM. Though Mars has no permanent sunny side because it, like Earth, has days & nights, Bizarro under normal circumstances still couldn't escape during Martian nights because if he did, he would be facing pure, unfiltered solar radiation which would have killed him. But because the eclipse blocked out the sun from Mars too (since Mars is slightly smaller than Earth & further away from the sun), Bizarro was able to fly from Mars to Earth sometime in Blue (offscreen).

----- Added 5 Minutes later -----


I dont care about Clark being traped in the FOS, but he should have been stuck in the training light beam, like the one when Chloe interrupted, I think it was in Arrival; what a bunch of wasted time.

Nope, that shouldn't have happened either because after all this nonsense, in the end I want a Clark Kent who is not forced to become Superman (a hero) due to training or Jor-El's will being forced on him. I want him to make that choice because he wants to. I don't mind him doing some learning at the FOS with Jor-El, but I don't want the same mistake made in the Donner movie (how he was non-stop with Jor-El for 12 years) to be repeated in this show. It's the biggest mistake the show can make. I do not want this Superman to be a product of Jor-El.

----- Added 13 Minutes later -----


Releasing Kal-el would have been pointless.
Seeing as Jor-el had nothing to do with Bizarro's return, I suppose Jor-el wanted Clark to understand what would happen if he kept disobeying him. People would die, the world would turn to caos and probably all sort of aliens would try to rule it.
From what I understood, Jor-el wanted to keep Clark trapped in the FOS for quite a long time, but Bizarro showed up and he had to release Clark to take care of the threat. Because Jor-el sent Clark to Earth to save the planet from a destiny very similar to Krypton's (as Raya said in "Fallout") and Clark seemed more interested in being stubborn and pretending to make decisions based too much on his emotions (especially the most twisted ones).

Releasing Kal-El would have finally fixed all of Clark's mistakes. You could bet he would sit idle with Lana and would very soon find out that Brainiac was back and would seek to destroy him. Seeing Kal-El running around as an example but as a non-ideal hero would teach Clark. If Clark would see Kal-El refusing to save people while fighting Brainiac as Brainiac would drop a building on them, he would finally wake up to why he needs to step up and learn what's necessary to truly defeat that side of him in battle and become Earth's hero. That would be the greatest incentive for him to train and leave Lana behind. Seeing the domineering ruler side of him (i.e. Kal-El) inflict his own ruthless justice on criminals is not something Clark would just sit back and allow to continue.

If this would happen, it would finally give meaning why Clark refused to kill Lex before he became Zod. Most of his disobedience to Jor-El would make sense and be justified.

----- Added 20 Minutes later -----


It would have been nice, but Kal-el's gone and Jor-el isn't going to bring him back. That part of CK's journey ended when the FOS was built and in the new one CK is supposed to make decisions based on his judgment and experience... unfortunately he seems to be a failure in this sense... unless the ice cube experience managed to teach him something. We'll have to see in the next episodes.

That's not true. Clark even said Kal-El is still a part of him (I believe in Onyx). I think if black-k is exposed to him, he will unleash Kal-El again. That's why when he opened that lockbox in Onyx where he found the black-k that unleashed evil Lex, he immediately stepped away from it. That part of him will always be there.

The liklyhood of them bringing him back is very low. And that sucks given how much they can do with him.

----- Added 24 Minutes later -----


The problem with this show is that they have made it seem that once Clark receives his training from Jor-El then he will leave the Fortress as Superman.

That's friggin stupid and a big problem I had with the first Superman movie (which I did enjoy nontheless)

This will not making becoming Superman Clark's choice, but the product of his father's machinations.

Thank you DarkseidNow. That's exactly what I've been saying. And by doing that, he will never learn how to deal with the villian your username refers to (Darkseid). He has yet to defeat anyone even having 10% of Darkseid's power. The toughest foe he can fight on this show (out of all the characters they've had) is Kal-El.

[SV'S_immortal_hero]

We're supposed to assume that Bizarro returned due to the eclipse. Chloe or Lois said that the eclipse was caused by water molecules blocking out the sun's rays. Since Earth is the first planet from the sun that has water, I believe that a cloud of thick water vapor formed not far from Earth's atmosphere and blocked the sun from getting to Earth or any smaller planets after Earth, which Mars is.

your taking that excuse a little too literal chloe using the water excuse was the same as the barn door excuse, the tractor and many others shes used to lie to lois to keep clarks secret



Chloe made a comment about Bizarro being placed on the sunny side of Mars by the MM. Though Mars has no permanent sunny side because it, like Earth, has days & nights, Bizarro under normal circumstances still couldn't escape during Martian nights because if he did, he would be facing pure, unfiltered solar radiation which would have killed him. But because the eclipse blocked out the sun from Mars too (since Mars is slightly smaller than Earth & further away from the sun), Bizarro was able to fly from Mars to Earth sometime in Blue (offscreen).

again a throw away comment

[litew8]

If Jor-El could trap Clark inside of the FOS so easily, why didn't he trap BiZaRrO too? FLAW

[pacofajita]

The problem with this show is that they have made it seem that once Clark receives his training from Jor-El then he will leave the Fortress as Superman.

That's friggin stupid and a big problem I had with the first Superman movie (which I did enjoy nontheless)

This will not making becoming Superman Clark's choice, but the product of his father's machinations.

I don't like those movies, but you're right. It is a fallacy to believe that's what it takes. TPTB need to have a mind-rape kiss and then have someone present them with an issue of the comics.

[Theshadow129x]

I dont like the idea of Clark having two personalities like kal-el and them his former self. The thing is that its like he came to earth with a certain program and he long forgot it when he crashed landed on earth. it makes him seem more robotic than human/kryptonian.

Kal-el shouldn't be a factor and shouldnt be spoken of as if he is another person, kal-el and Clark Kent are the same person to talk about them separately isn't very cool in my book. I get what you mean Xrayvision about how Kal-el, but he is only a by product of Jor-el also forcing his will on Clark which i don't like.

Jor-el should not also force the destiny on Clark, but at this point in the show I see no other way for them to make Clark go for his destiny other than being forced into it. Clark's personality cripples him from his own future self. He is too afraid to do anything outside of life in Smallville and his friends. He was ready to do his training because Lana was gone at the beginning of the season; if thats what it takes to get him to train then thats pathetic because its another way for him to be forced into a destiny: He'll be foricing himself into doing something he didnt want to do. its not a full embrace. At this point all i can see happening is them lightswitching the character to his destiny.

[Mr.White]

true but they won't do it that because they dont understand the father like figure the voic is supposed to be. hE IS SUPPOSED to bring guidance to Clark and yet he comes off as a tyrant because Al/Miles dont understand who the character is and his true significance. I'm disappointed with the character build of this show with exception of Lex. They got the villain right but the heroes all wrong.



This is true and a real flaw the show has. Al/Miles love their Lana and give her way too much attention. Meanwhile they have made it that the one person Clark should listen to and respect, his father Jor-El, they have Clark hate and mistrust instead.

[Theshadow129x]

This is the reason why everyone hates the Lana Lang character the most, mr. White. After season three it was apparent they ran out of ideas for the character they have been trying to find some relevance for her to be on the show outside of being Clark Kent's girlfriend, however when they tried to take her away from that, everything that followed failed and they resorted back to making her Clark Kent's girlfriend. I swear I hope that in 15 years I can take over some form of Superman liscensing and redo the origin of the characters this show and the donner films tarnished. everyone that has taken up the character arent true fans of the comics, they're fans of the television or movie versions of the character they loved so much which is a dumb down version of the comic book icon and greatest hero in comics of all time.

[xrayvision]

Kal-el shouldn't be a factor and shouldnt be spoken of as if he is another person, kal-el and Clark Kent are the same person to talk about them separately isn't very cool in my book. I get what you mean Xrayvision about how Kal-el, but he is only a by product of Jor-el also forcing his will on Clark which i don't like.

Jor-el should not also force the destiny on Clark, but at this point in the show I see no other way for them to make Clark go for his destiny other than being forced into it. Clark's personality cripples him from his own future self. He is too afraid to do anything outside of life in Smallville and his friends. He was ready to do his training because Lana was gone at the beginning of the season; if thats what it takes to get him to train then thats pathetic because its another way for him to be forced into a destiny: He'll be foricing himself into doing something he didnt want to do. its not a full embrace. At this point all i can see happening is them lightswitching the character to his destiny.

That's my point though. Jor-El is still forcing his will on him. And to use the "fighting against Kal-El in a war" route would break away from Clark becoming Superman by being forced into it by Jor-El. And that is a good thing. Even though his Kal-El side (or his nature side) that Jor-El brainwashed into him (or brought out of him) is NOT evil, I think Clark would put aside any feelings for Lana even if he was 100% totally in love with her (which he's not anymore) to save the human race from Kal-El's brand of protecting/ruling. Using the Kal-El mechanism would prove that he cares more about mankind than he does about Lana. It would have been a much better way of showing him progress (which is still not being done, unless at best at a snail's pace) than by making Lana evil and prove like they are doing such a good job of, that Lana not living up to the expectations he set is the only reason he will become Superman.

[WickedJenn]

It made no sense that Jor-El trapped Clark in the FOS when Brainiac & Bizarro got loose. That just makes him look really bad. I was really hoping that Bizarro trapped Clark. That's just crappy writing. Trapping Clark and then releasing him was pointless. He's still a BDA. They showed the FOS all dark and lifeless and now they show it all alive & well. Very inconsistent. And Jor-El who usually knows everything that's going to happen and even predicted Zod's return before it happened had no idea that Brainiac & Bizarro were loose.

I'm very disappointed in that aspect of this episode. It was great except for that.

I hear ya, but I'm not going to assume anything yet. We've still got some epis left, so who knows what will happen. IF Clark DID get some sort of training, I don't think he'd kick it into high gear in one epi. He did get right on trying to get rid of Bizarro, and he doesn't even know Brainiac's loose.

Now maybe Jor-El's test, somehow (even if inadvertently), IS Brainiac. We all know how painstaking it can be to get rid of Brainaic, maybe THAT'S part of Jor-El's other "kick in the pants" for Clark. Jor-El's goal all along has been trying to get Clark to see that there's more out there than just farming and his immediate family and friends. With a formidable enemy as Brainiac, it would show Clark that these kinds of enemies will always be surfacing for him to fight. Then on top of that we now have the true Lex Luthor we've always wanted on the show. Combining all this, maybe it will open Clark's eyes more...making him begin to see that his time's much needed outside of Smallville.

Here's hoping anyway.

[malft]

Jor El reminds me of some parents I've dealt with whos' children are drug addicts (BDA)s'. In order to save, protect and teach their children they run the risk of being seen as controlling, rigid despots. Clark after all is a "Strange visitor from another planet" who, even though he was raised here, is not human, and doesn't act or react in a purely human way. Smallvilles' Clark Kent is a lazy student who isn't being challenged in school. Jor El as his parent must discipline and steer his child onto the right path.

[kasealaine]

I think I would like to see some sort of FoS Jor-El timeline. I think I might put something like that together: List all the things that he's done to Clark that, supposedly, Clark would understand later, then match them up with how they were resolved. Then, I think I will send the list to the writers.
Yeah... that'll show 'em.

[WickedJenn]

I think I would like to see some sort of FoS Jor-El timeline. I think I might put something like that together: List all the things that he's done to Clark that, supposedly, Clark would understand later, then match them up with how they were resolved. Then, I think I will send the list to the writers.
Yeah... that'll show 'em.

NICE, I like that :D

[xrayvision]

I think I would like to see some sort of FoS Jor-El timeline. I think I might put something like that together: List all the things that he's done to Clark that, supposedly, Clark would understand later, then match them up with how they were resolved. Then, I think I will send the list to the writers.
Yeah... that'll show 'em.

I may have done that already. Let me check out some posts I made after I get home tonight and I'll send you a link if I find one.

[kasealaine]

I may have done that already. Let me check out some posts I made after I get home tonight and I'll send you a link if I find one.

Wow. I'm going to start wishing for things on this forum more often. SV fans are magic.

[xrayvision]

Here are some links I posted various info in:

This one talks about the various times Clark failed to listen to Jor-El:
http://www.kryptonsite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3533448&postcount=10

This one mentions all of Jor-El's appearances in an episode by episode analysis but in the connotation of him actually being Zor-El:
http://www.kryptonsite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79480

This is perhaps my favorite theory from the ones I wrote (I call it the real deal) and attempts to fill in the blanks before Jor-El was ever shown & between episodes with Jor-El:
http://www.kryptonsite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83686

Here's one that meshes facts from stuff that actually happened with speculation of what could have happened:
http://www.kryptonsite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=82426

[kasealaine]

Here are some links I posted various info in:

This one talks about the various times Clark failed to listen to Jor-El:
http://www.kryptonsite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3533448&postcount=10

This one mentions all of Jor-El's appearances in an episode by episode analysis but in the connotation of him actually being Zor-El:
http://www.kryptonsite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79480

This is perhaps my favorite theory from the ones I wrote (I call it the real deal) and attempts to fill in the blanks before Jor-El was ever shown & between episodes with Jor-El:
http://www.kryptonsite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83686

Here's one that meshes facts from stuff that actually happened with speculation of what could have happened:
http://www.kryptonsite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=82426

I am thoroughly impressed. I'm going to bed now, but hopefully I will comment more tomorrow.

[Theshadow129x]

Doesn't matter, though. Bottom line is that if Smallville's jor-el is a failure, then smallville's Clark Kent/ Superman is a failure.

----- Added 40 Seconds later -----

making smallville the show a failure

[xrayvision]

Doesn't matter, though. Bottom line is that if Smallville's jor-el is a failure, then smallville's Clark Kent/ Superman is a failure.

----- Added 40 Seconds later -----

making smallville the show a failure

And the reason why it makes the show a failure is because Clark becoming Superman should have nothing to do with how smart or stupid the Jor-El AI is. And the show hasn't done a damn constructive thing to show why Smallville's Superman will not be a product of Jor-El's will. After every time Clark disobeys Jor-El, nothing positive happens. He goes right back to Lana. And this last time, Jor-El actually trapped him at a critical time.

[ginnyfan]

I wonder how long Jor-el would have kept Clark in the fortress if Bizarro hadn't showed up.

[davidbrenton]

But if Clark didn't have any training and he was there for a month, what was the point? Was it so he would stay there until everyone he knew died of old age and he could complete his destiny?

You are correct. He explains this exactly in a deleted scene on the S7 DVD.