Nathan aka "Flying Man!" dead?

[thefilmguy22384]

as i stated in my other thread on here there were many problems with this finale. the story was rushed and half assed. story archs were incomplete. drama and tension didnt have time to build. too much time was focused on monica again. peter was being an idiot. but the one thing thats stands above all of this as the biggest wtf move is nathan being shot and possibly killed just when he was really getting cool. his story arch wasnt finished in my opnion. what ever happened to him repairing his relationship with his wife and kids? he didnt even have a good dramatic death. noah had a bigger death scene and he didnt really die. also to have noah be the one to kill nathan just feels wrong. why are the writers having heroes killing other heroes lately. thats supposed to be the villains job. now we know peter is gonna look for his bros killer. i liked peter and noahs relationship last season and that certainly wont exist after peter finds out he was the gun man. also i just dont know if noah would kill 1. his daughters bio dad and 2. the brother of the man that he owes his daughters life to. not only that he must know the sacrifice nathan made last season when he flew peter out of new york. now i know the argument will be that he had to do it to protect his family but still it doesnt make the whole thing feel any better. i dont mind deaths on the show. none of the other ones have bothered me. but this one just feels wrong. this makes me wanna take up a sign and go protest outisde of NBC or sign a petition lol. peter can save his bro with his blood. DO IT heroes writers! bring nathan "flying man" petrelli back!

[Joelito]

Peter will remember that Claire can cure him...so there's the hope for the "flying man" fans. :)

[Mello Penelo]

Again, not supposed to have a spoiler as the title of the thread. Check the rules. Even if the episode has aired, you must wait 24 hours.

[STFanatic]

7) ONE WEEK RULE: This means you cannot discuss anything about that particular episode on any forum or thread not specifically devoted to that episode for one week after airing.

So that means it is OK if it is within the episode thread.
24 hours would be best.
KryptonSite Forum Rules (http://www.kryptonsite.com/forums/announcement.php?s=&forumid=30)

[Mello Penelo]

Not when you search for new posts by clicking "most recent post."

[red_sun1938]

He already has Kensei / Adams blood in him and it healed him before. I'm guessing this will happen again.

[Lexgirl33]

I hope they bring him back :(

[vinslikewhoa]

so now people are complaining a characters story arc is incomplete? firstly, when someone dies in real life, lets say a child, there life wasnt lived fully, but death happens, the show is written to show that it doesnt matter who you like character wise, they can die, so people need to get over the fact that the writers may have killed nathan, it adds a shock value to the show, no one is safe, death happens, even to ppl you like, so complaining about it as bad writing isnt really whats happeneing here, ppl are complaining for it not being written like they want.

[Mello Penelo]

Killing someone isn't bad writing. And when you die, it kind of ends any development you have. The characters will be mentioned and some of the aspects of their arcs will be revisited. Even Deveaux and Linderman are still part of the story and they've been dead a long time.

Unless we're talking about Smallville where the dead are never mentioned because they don't exist anymore. ;) :p

[RedPhoenix23]

Nathan isn't really going to stay dead. Either Peter will use his head and realize that he absorbed Adam's (and Claire's) super heal it ability since he absorbs EVERBODY'S abilitys and then therefore save his brother..... OR, Peter will contact Claire and Claire will tell him what to do since she knows that her blood can bring peeps back from the dead.

[Joelito]

Originally posted by STFanatic
7) ONE WEEK RULE: This means you cannot discuss anything about that particular episode on any forum or thread not specifically devoted to that episode for one week after airing.
So that means it is OK if it is within the episode thread.
24 hours would be best.
KryptonSite Forum Rules (http://www.kryptonsite.com/forums/announcement.php?s=&forumid=30)
Sorry...but I didn't see a spoiler in there, I mean isn't from a couple epis back, like in "4 months ago" explian how this happen? :\

[STFanatic]

Originally posted by Joelito
Sorry...but I didn't see a spoiler in there, I mean isn't from a couple epis back, like in "4 months ago" explian how this happen? :\

I didn't say there was, notice the part highlighted in red.

Since this is a thread dedicated to the episode, it wouldn't be in violation.

[Coyote]

Yeah, it's unlikely he'll stay dead, if he even is dead, and not just unconscious. It would make no sense at all to kill off Nathan, since he's one of the most interesting characters and Adrian Pasdar is probably the best actor on the show. Killing off Peter would have been less of a loss, since he isn't especially complex or interesting and could fairly easily be replaced.

It really is weak and lazy writing to have a season finale devoted to yet another trite "Which character will die?" plot and kill characters for the sake of killing characters because they can't think of anything better to do. Maybe instead they could just, you know, write a real story.

[thefilmguy22384]

hey sorry about the spoiler title. im new on here so i didnt know that rule. i never said that nathan dieing is bad writing. im saying that the events leading up to his death was poorly written. its not totally the writers fault as i said before because they had to cram everything together due to the writers strike. but still, if your gonna kill off a main character like nathan i think he deserves a good send off. they gave noah a really cool big death scene. if noah really died in that episode, though i like the character, i would be happy with how it was handled. nathan really didnt get the attention to detail that i felt his death deserved. if they had a good build up to his death then i wouldnt have been so annoyed by it. but also i just like the character and i like his relationships with much of the cast. i want to see more of that character. i feel there is more that he can do. if your gonna get rid of a character then make it someone who isn't contributing much to the show like monica. however i do see the point that you guys made with presenting a shock value where you feel none of the characters are safe. thats a good point. i felt maybe noah should have been the one to go though. his death was handled really well. i still hope that they bring nathan back because im a fan of the character and i would like to see more of him.

[MidgardDragon]

I hate to see him go, but I hope he stays dead to show that they aren't just going to use the healing blood plot device every time someone gets killed.

[Randy G.]

Originally posted by MidgardDragon
I hate to see him go, but I hope he stays dead to show that they aren't just going to use the healing blood plot device every time someone gets killed.

I agree.

[STFanatic]

The healing blood thing would get out of control if they used it in the story too much, it would be like passing out Promycin* on the street.

*Reference to The 4400.

[thefilmguy22384]

very good point. i really dont want them to start making that healing blood thing into a plot device. it solves problems too easily. but it cant hurt to just use it one more time lol. its just that it would feel weird if peter doesnt use a power that he knows that he has to save nathan. i mean peter knows that he can save him so for him not to use his blood to save nathan feels a bit stupid. peter has already suffered enough bad writing with making him dumb enough to follow adam even though every person on the show was telling him that he was a villain.

[Xanderman]

Peter is heavily super powered, and he was right next to him. Why couldn't he prevent Nathan from getting shot? Super hearing, telekinesis, the ability to manipulate time, you name it, Peter can do it. Just plain dumb, bad writing.

I mean for any other show, a straightforward assassination like this is hard to stop. But this is Heroes, and that was Peter right next to him. Very flawed.

[Barogrei]

But it doesn't seem that his super hearing power was passive as it was with the person who originally used it. And his brother would already have been dead by the time he stopped or slowed down time to prevent the bullet. And I imagine he would have to both have incredibly good coordination as well as be anticipating a bullet if he were to stop it with telekenesis. I don't think that Peter's array of powers would have necessarily precluded an assassination.

[Xanderman]

If Peter wasn't in the scene, I could accept the assassination a lot more readily. But Peter's so damned powerful, and they seem to have removed the limitations they once gave him (ie. it seems he can use powers at will, just like the original power holders, without having to think about them or emotionally remember them or whatever). I used to think Peter had to "activate" powers in some way, but there have been too many instances that show otherwise.

If the super hearing isn't always on in Peter, then yes stopping the assassination would have been a problem. However, with Hiro's ability, he should be able to go back in time a few seconds/minutes whatever and save Nathan. Although I'm not sure Peter has mastered that ability yet...has he? Even if he hasn't, that doesn't mean he shouldn't give it a try. If he doesn't at least try, that's a huge plot hole I can complain about for a long, long time. lol

(By the way, super hearing was always on with the original holder, which I think is what you're saying as well with the passive comment. She told Sylar she didn't hear him coming, implying it was always on with her.)

[InLove_with_Chloe]

In case he stays dead: it was an honorable death, IMO.
Very Robert Kennedy.

[Xanderman]

Nathan staying dead is flawed for a number of reasons though, mainly considering the show we're talking about, heh. Time travel can save him, his daughter Claire's blood can save him, etc. If one of these things isn't done to save him, it's a plot hole.

If they wanted to give Nathan a really honorable end, they would have let him die last season saving NY. To bring him back after that only to really kill him a short time later is senseless. (They barely did anything at all with Nathan in V2.)

[Volake]

Well, part of what gives a show, or any work of fiction, "credibility", is that there doesn't necessarily have to be some profound development, or conclusion to their existence. Basically, if they do allow Nathan to "stay dead", they would even further the message that they've already established, that there are very few sure deals concerning the series. I do agree, that if Claire/Peter's blood isn't used as a measure to at least try to save him, it would seem to me as if the reasonable intelligence of some of the good guys would be compromised. However, the very fact that characters can have a promising story arc, that can be terminated at any minute, is what keeps us on our toes. That is not to say that the writers should not try to give a full arc to any of the characters, I think it's nice to have some characters that change, and such characters are another effective hook to the show. As for time travel, I don't know if Peter shares Hiro's "let it be", philosophy. If Claire's blood doesn't regenerate him, maybe he will return to the past to save his brother's life.

[Xanderman]

Originally posted by Volake
As for time travel, I don't know if Peter shares Hiro's "let it be", philosophy. If Claire's blood doesn't regenerate him, maybe he will return to the past to save his brother's life. The only problem with that is I'm not sure we've seen Peter able to use Hiro's ability with any control yet. However that doesn't mean he shouldn't try. If he doesn't think of this as a possibility, then Peter is truly an idiot worthy of being compared to Smallville's Clark, heh.

[spicyblark]

Yeah, Nathan is dead, but I didn't want him to be. Didn't the assassin look like Peter from behind?

[Xanderman]

Originally posted by spicyblark
Yeah, Nathan is dead, but I didn't want him to be. Didn't the assassin look like Peter from behind? Nathan won't necessarily stay dead. Afterall Peter is right there, his blood should be able to heal him, or he can time-travel-cheat the way Hiro wouldn't do to save Sulu from being beamed up by God. lol

And yes it resembled Peter from behind imo, that's definitely what I thought while viewing. Guess this means Darth Peter's a comin'. lol

[HowardFilms]

If they were gonna kill of Nathan, they should have just let him have his sacrifice by exploding with Peter. It was a more heroic death.

[Red Arrow Kuczynski]

I don't think that Nathan is unconscious. Mama Petrelli was watching the TV coverage and it said that he was dead.

[kazek]

I think Nathan will stay dead.
I don't think they'll pull the resurrection card again. If the story is to have some continuity or meaning, he has to stay dead. I mean if they keep resurrecting everybody with no sort of limiting factor it would be pointless. Nathan's death has to mean something.
As Ma Petrelli put it.. "you do know that you've now opened Pandora's box"
I feel that was the only way it could happen.

Not that am glad Nathan is dead but you tend to expect these things in Tv-series. And given that Heroes has an abundance of cast members, they are at liberty to kill off as many

[TKFlash]

I am going to be pissed if Nathan dies, he is a fundamental character and is needed to be their for Peter. His power is very cool too, they never got a chance to fly with eachother and see who is fastest ( which Nathan already is if Peter isn't using TK to supplement his flying speed).

[thefilmguy22384]

i dont know where everyone is getting this future peter killing nathan stuff. i think they make it pretty clear that it was noah. it looked like his profile to me plus the person was dressed just like noah. also they made it very clear that the company saw nathan talking about going public through the security camera in the vault. you even heard nathan's mother say to someone on the phone "it had to be done". this makes it very clear that this was a hit planned by nathans own mother and the company to keep him quiet. since noah just got back with the company it would make sense that he was the hit man. i just dont know if i like that idea cuz i dont wanna have a problem with noah but i will cuz i liked nathan. also nathan isnt for sure dead like some have said on here. i mean how many times have they made it look like a character died only to see them come back. peter was dead last season when sylar hit him with the glass. since peter has the power to save nathan with his blood its not a for sure thing. i would like to see nathan return

[Xanderman]

Originally posted by HowardFilms
If they were gonna kill of Nathan, they should have just let him have his sacrifice by exploding with Peter. It was a more heroic death. I agree.


Originally posted by kazek
I think Nathan will stay dead.
I don't think they'll pull the resurrection card again. If the story is to have some continuity or meaning, he has to stay dead. I mean if they keep resurrecting everybody with no sort of limiting factor it would be pointless. Nathan's death has to mean something.
As Ma Petrelli put it.. "you do know that you've now opened Pandora's box"
I feel that was the only way it could happen.

Not that am glad Nathan is dead but you tend to expect these things in Tv-series. And given that Heroes has an abundance of cast members, they are at liberty to kill off as many That's all well and good, but how can they explain Nathan staying dead? Healing blood, time travel etc can be used to save him. If not at least attempted, it's a huge plot hole. And not everyone has to get resurrected, only people that can accomplish it and for people they want to save. For example, if Monica or some other minor character dies, who's going to bother saving her? Peter and Hiro don't know her (people with powers to resurrect others). But Nathan is Peter's beloved brother, and Peter knows how Nathan was healed once before so there's no reason why they shouldn't try that again, this time with his own blood. And while Hiro might not be willing to use time travel anymore to save people because of that "playing God is wrong" sermon Sulu put into his head, that doesn't mean Peter shouldn't give it a try.


Originally posted by thefilmguy22384
i dont know where everyone is getting this future peter killing nathan stuff. i think they make it pretty clear that it was noah. it looked like his profile to me plus the person was dressed just like noah. While HRG definitely seems to make more sense, the pics STFanatic/Steve posted say otherwise if you ask me. It looks more like Peter than it does HRG imo. Plus I thought it was Peter during viewing, if first impressions mean anything... (I never saw the ep again though)

Here's one of the pics from Steve:
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k292/Startrekfanatic/Heroes%20Stuff/Killer2.gif

That doesn't look like HRG in the slightest (IMO). But it definitely resembles Peter.

[Lexgirl33]

I think the shoulders dont look like Milos. They are too high. Just the way he seems to be walking doesnt resemble him IMO.


Originally posted by MidgardDragon
I hate to see him go, but I hope he stays dead to show that they aren't just going to use the healing blood plot device every time someone gets killed.

*sniff* yeah true. I will miss Nathan. Hopefully they bring him back in episodes involving the past.

[STFanatic]

I can't say for sure either, I guess we will have to wait till the next chapter :(

Here is the clip of the "shooter" walking away:

Killer Walk (http://s91.photobucket.com/albums/k292/Startrekfanatic/Heroes%20Stuff/?action=view&current=Killerwalk.flv)

[thefilmguy22384]

has anyone considered that they just used a double for the back of the hit man walking away? i just dont buy thats peter. nothing points to that in the story. they make it a fact that the company was involved with the hit from mrs. petrelli's phone convo saying "it had to be done" to the security cameras in the vault catching nathan stating his intentions. any other theories are just fantasy in my opinion. i think they make it more then clear that it was the company. like i said though it would make alot of sense for it to be HRG. he just got back with the company. he was the first one i suspected when i saw the episode and still the first one i suspect seeing the episode a 2nd time. though i kinda hope its not him

[STFanatic]

And the probable reason they did it the way they did is to get the reactions they are getting from us.
Cliffhangers were created for the sole purpose of to have the fans guessing "who", "why" & "how".

[rocana]

Well, I dont think the profile looked even remotely like Noah. If it was then he was in disguise because that is definitely not what he usually wears, plus the guy looked skinnier. Also Noah has always been shown as an abductor, not a hit man, even though he might need to kill on an assignment occasionally. I just think Noah is higher on the ladder with this company to use on such a risky assignment.

Plus if this police station doesnt have at least one camera that caught this guy, then it should be torn down for being completely useless. It's already useless for not closing off the building immeditely when it happened and letting the guy just casually walk away.

[Xanderman]

If that wasn't Peter it was a damned good impression. :lol:

[thefilmguy22384]

i do admit that the profile reminded me of peter but it just doesnt add up for it to be him. this was a hit that was planned in the present by the company and mrs. petrelli. future peter doesnt fit in. plus peter loves his brother. their relationship is one of the strongest on the show. even future peter still loved his bro. he even said in the premiere that they share a strong connection. he simply would never kill his brother. if future peter had to stop nathan from making that speech he would have done it with out killing him. lets just say that if they do make peter the hit man then that would really be bad writing. plus it would really piss off the peter fans which im one of. even though i would hate for it to be noah too i would rather it be him than peter. for it to be peter is just wayyyyyy too out of character. if they are dumb enough to make peter the hit man than it would seriously damage my enjoyment of the show since peter is one of my favorite characters.

[Xanderman]

Well it's definitely out of character for the Peter we know today, yes, but in the future Peter might be "seduced by the dark side of the Force" (:lol: ) and become "Darth Peter" (the next volume is called Villains afterall, this might be the starting point for Pete's descent into darkness).

Sylar said that Peter is the villain, and that he's the hero in the S1 finale. Wouldn't it be wild if this actually came true someday... lol

[STFanatic]

I am leaning towards a new "Villan".

[thefilmguy22384]

yeah but even future peter still loved his bro and this was even after he betrayed him and didnt help stop the bomb in that timeline. they have said many times on the show that peter is an empath. he is filled with compassion and care. that he has a good soul. remember at the end of season one they said it was his ability to love unconditionally that makes him a hero. he is probably one of the most purest heroes on the show. many had to grow into becoming heroes. he was one right from the get go. sylar was only callin peter the villain and himself the hero just because the irony of it. i dont think its supposed to be read beyond that. it just simply isnt in peter to kill his brother and, if they stay true to his character, then it never will be. also again, like i keep pointing out, they made it clear that this was a planned hit by mrs. petrelli and the company. so it wouldnt be peter anyways. either a new villain or HRG most likely. it could be someone else in the cast but not peter. it just wouldnt make any sense at all.

[Xanderman]

F-Peter from Five Years Gone was from a different chain of events. The new timeline is leading to different events, events which may include Peter becoming twisted by some sort of evil. I liken it to how Superman becomes evil with Red K. Superman could and would do horrible things under the influence of red k, behaviors which aren't exactly in keeping with his "true character". Something similar could happen to Peter if his emotions/mind etc are controlled/changed in some insidious way we have yet to see.

[thefilmguy22384]

ok well if it were peter then since when does peter use bullets? peter doesnt need a gun. he has dozens of powers at his disposal to take someone out. the only reason why people think its peter is just cuz of the way the shooter walked. thats nothin to go on. there is no real reason or evidense to think it was him beyond that. also this isnt some event that someone from the future came back to change. this was a hit planned in the present by the company and mrs. petrelli. nothin points to the shooter being peter besides a slight resemblance in the way the shooter walked. it just doesnt add up

[Xanderman]

Yeah it doesn't really add up, not on the surface anyway, and I admit the main reason I think it's Peter is because of screenshots I've seen (from STFanatic). I don't really recall the actual scene so I can't say anything about the walk, but the shots resemble Peter. They don't really look like HRG to me, HRG being the main suspect for a lot of people.

Now it's a matter of trying to make it make sense...here's a few ideas:

- Peter used bullets to make it look like an assassination plot from a norm, with no "mutant" involvement whatsoever
- if this Peter is evil/twisted, villains sometimes take a perverse pleasure in getting away with things right under everybody's nose, in a simple fashion without much effort (or need for super powers)
- it's possible Angela is in communication and working with Future Peter for some reason, for what reason I don't know
- Future Peter might have intended this only as a "warning" to Nathan, and to anybody else who would want to "out" the secret (in other words, perhaps it wasn't intended as an act of true evil, there might be other reasons that aren't obvious). I call it just a warning as he knows Peter can heal Nathan with his blood and revive him.

Finally, if it wasn't Peter, it's probably someone new like Steve said. Because it doesn't really look like anybody else to me.

[thefilmguy22384]

well i think its possible that who ever it is hasnt been casted yet or was unavailable for the days shoot so they used a stand in for the shooter. they used a stand in for sylar for the first several appearences he made. it wasnt until like episode 11 or something that zachary quinto really played him. also i dont think there is anything that can make peter go evil enough to kill the most important person in the world to him. i mean future peter last season had the weight of blowing up half of new york and pushing the world in into chaos on his shoulders. yet he still was a hero and a good person in the end. he is just a pure hero. they have had characters say that about him time and again. again all those theories sound like they are stretching a bit. i just think people are putting too much thought into it being peter. everything points to it being very unlikely that its gonna be peter. the chances are really small. everything points to it being someone else besides a little resemblance to the back side of the shooter. if they made it peter i would be shocked. if they did by some small chance go with it being peter that would really betray the character in my eyes and many others. it would really damage the show for me and other peter fans.

[Xanderman]

I think it resembling Peter is important, and increases the chances of it being him, as long as that wasn't just some stand-in as you say. That would suck if a new person plays the shooter later on, cheats the fans.


Originally posted by thefilmguy22384
i dont think there is anything that can make peter go evil enough to kill the most important person in the world to him.As I said, if that was Peter he would know the death would only be temporary as his younger self would likely heal him afterward. It's not a totally evil act when you look at it that way.

if they did by some small chance go with it being peter that would really betray the character in my eyes and many others. it would really damage the show for me and other peter fans.
And once again as I said, it might betray Peter as you know him now, but F-Peter is another story. He could become twisted by some sort of evil down the road, intoxicated by the dark side. Not really himself, so not really a betrayal.

[STFanatic]

Or..

Future Peter was created in another time line that was bad for the "Heroes" because his brother "came out", thus starting a movement to lock up all muta... err.. people with special powers.

A future that may be as bad or worse than if the chapter one scenario had happened.

[thefilmguy22384]

well i just think people are reading too much into it being peter. everything points to it being someone else minus the shooters back side. it just doesnt seem enough to go on. if there is a scale then its tilted way more towards it not being peter. also it is very likely that they used a stand in because thats what they did for sylar for the first several appearances he made. they are probably waiting to cast him until next season. they had enough to worry about this season with the strike and all. that is if it is gonna be a new character at all. if peter blowing up new york and throwing the world into the dark ages didnt make him go evil then i dont see how anything could. i guess we will just have to wait and see though. at this point i really dont see where all this talk is coming from. there really isnt enough to go on for that theory. not yet anyways

[Xanderman]

Originally posted by STFanatic
Or..

Future Peter was created in another time line that was bad for the "Heroes" because his brother "came out", thus starting a movement to lock up all muta... err.. people with special powers.

A future that may be as bad or worse than if the chapter one scenario had happened. Good thinking, that's a good possibility.


Originally posted by thefilmguy22384
if peter blowing up new york and throwing the world into the dark ages didnt make him go evil then i dont see how anything could.Again, I'm not saying Peter will necessarily become evil completely on his own or "naturally" (ie. because times get tough, life sucks, bad world, etc.). I'm saying an "outside force" or person, acting malevolently, might play a role in "changing" Peter. Sort of like how red k changes Superman, Peter might also fall victim to some sort of emotional change caused by a villain we perhaps have yet to see. His actions would thus not be a true betrayal to his character. None of this seems really that far-fetched to me, especially given the nature of this show.

And once again for a third time, if that really was Peter, then it wasn't necessarily an act of true evil, as he knows his younger self can simply heal Nathan afterward. So in effect, all the shooting really was was just a warning, not an attempt to actually kill his own brother.

I'm not saying it is definitely Peter, but if it is, there are reasonable ways to explain it if one just thinks about it a little.

[The Ninth Doctor]

I hope it's not HRG. I wouldn't make sense at all. Future Peter would be interesting, he'd be using the gun instead of his powers since, you know, he was trying to prevent the discovery of powers in the first place. I hope though it's a new guy, an anti-HRG, meaning a villain without powers.


I also really hope that Nathan isn't dead. Not becuase I liek the character, but really because there's just to much death on Heroes. It's numbing. Just look at all the character's that have not just died, but were murdered: DL, Linderman, Chandra, Thompson, Ted, Kaito, Victoria, Charlie, Eden, etc.

[thefilmguy22384]

well HRG makes alot more sense then peter. at least he works for the company and the hit was obviously planned by the company. he has done some shady things for them in the past. also they might be trying to play with the irony and drama that HRG kills claires bio dad. even though that would create an interesting situation i guess, i kinda dont want it to be him because i really like the character and that would just make him lose points with me. i mean i know if he did do it its all to protect his family but still i really like nathan. but if its between him and peter then i would much rather HRG because at least that makes sense to some degree. the future peter thing is just really out of left field and doesnt make sense. i just think its kinda odd that people are jumpin on this its peter thing ust based off of the back side of the shooter. that really is no proof at all. hopefully nathan survives this.

[The Ninth Doctor]

HRG is pretty much the number 2 guy in the company right now, him or Mohinder. For Bob to send him on such a simple, but dangerous mission is 1) wasting his talents, and 2) putting him in unnecesary danger. It doesn't make sense.

As for Future Peter- if he's running around, we know absolutely nothing about him yet. So, there's no reason for it not to be him, which makes him more likely than HRG.

[Socrate]

HRG wouldn't probably hasitate to take such a mission after agreement with Bob to leave his family alone. It must have been someone sent by the company or organisation which also has access to their monitoring system since I believe showing us camera in vault indicates someone knew what Nathan is going to do and was ready to stop him. So besicaly shooter was just some random hitman sent by company (if they got normal hitmans, probably rather someone with powers , brainwashed like elle) or HRG. I also think the person on the phone with mama petrelli was either Bob or some powerful player connected to old company not working with Bob anymore.

[thefilmguy22384]

well actually HRG was never number 2 in the company. he may have thought he was but when it was revealed to him that the company was being run by linderman in the 1st season he realized that he was a smaller player in it. i also doubt they would give HRG the same position he had when he left. i mean he just spent the whole season trying to destroy the company. it would make sense for them to send him to kill nathan to prove to them that he is with them all the way. also the company sent HRG on many dangerous missions before. capturing people with powers isnt a safe line of work. he has obviously been trained to take people out. like how he handled himself when he killed his russian mentor. how he made it look like a robbery. he isnt knew to the whole killing thing and he has killed for the company before. i really dont think its stretching too much. he is just one of their agents. the peter thing is stretching a bit though. i just really doubt that any circumstances would make peter kill his own brother. he was too important to him. also like i keep saying they made it very clear that this hit was planned by the company. we saw that they were watching them in the vault on the cameras and mrs. petrelli obviously was aware that the hit was gonna take place. this isnt a hit planned from future peter. this was planned in the present by the company. peter is a guy with strong principles and morales. not even future peter being responsible for killing thousands and blowing up new york was enough to make him into a bad guy. i dont think anything could. even if something could make him go bad the last thing he would do is kill his brother. now unless, like some have said, that he knew his present self would heal his brothers wounds with his blood. then that would work i guess. otherwise though it just doesnt work for the character. it could end up to be neither and be a new character.

[The Ninth Doctor]

HRG new about Linderman. If I remember correctly, Matt was all "You didn't know about Linderman?" And HRG launches into a plan to take out Linderman, implying that, yes he did know about linderman.

I think it breaks down like this:
Top Super Elder (At that point Linderman)
Other super elders with the company (Bob)
Top Non super elders (Thompson)
Regional non super elders (HRG and Ivan)

But NOW he is number 2 in the company. It's basically Him, Bob, and Mohinder controlling things now.

I don't doubt HRG wouldn't be willing to help, its that its not a fitting asignment for him. Bob would send someone a little more expendable for a routine assasination.

The first Future Peter was at the point where killing random guards who had done nothing wrong was not only acceptable to him, but fun. Anyone and everyone can change, given painful events.

The fact is, we know alot about HRG, and him being the killer makes absolutely no sense. If Future Peter exists, we know nothing about him, so him being the killer doesn't violate any of the facts we know. This puts him ahead of HRG as probable shooter. Of course, this also puts Arthur Petrelli, and a slew of others ahead. And maybe Mr. Muggles.

Anyway, the point is, it's most definately NOT the man in horn rimmed glasses.

Maybe its Uluru!

[Xanderman]

TND while it might not be a fitting assignment for HRG, I could still see him doing it, I'm not sure we can say it's impossible (if we don't factor in the shooter's physical traits anyway). We know he's willing to do whatever it takes to protect Claire and his family. And just like with F-Peter, it would have likely been more just a warning than an actual attempt to kill Nathan, as HRG knows about Peter and he also knows about healing blood.

But I don't think HRG could get away with it, not with the super-powered Peter around. It makes me believe the shooter had to have powers of his own, powers which would allow him to get away with a straightforward assassination with a gun. Otherwise it doesn't make sense to me. This lends further support to it being F-Peter, in my view.


Originally posted by thefilmguy22384
i just think its kinda odd that people are jumpin on this its peter thing ust based off of the back side of the shooter. that really is no proof at all.Physical appearance is definitely proof to a degree, backside or not. For one thing, we know it wasn't a woman. For another, we know it wasn't a fat man. If you continue along this line, you eventually pick out enough details to compare him to certain people more than others, and at the same time completely rule out others. The backside of the shooter isn't nearly as trivial as you believe, imo.

[thefilmguy22384]

no, HRG did not know about linderman. i just saw that episode the other day. its from episode 19. the convo goes like this...

HRG
New York City. We are leaving on the next bus.

MATT
Is this where Linderman is?

HRG
Where did you get that name?

MATT
From your boss. Thompson. He was thinkin of
sending us to this Linderman guy. I just figured
thats who you must work for.

Noah looks shocked.

MATT
Wait a minute...You didn't know that? Your trying
to take down your organization and you dont even
know who signs your checks?! Oh my god! Your
middle management!

so no he wasnt number 2. never was. there are also alot more levels to this company then we were lead to believe. noah is yet again "middle management" as matt parkman put it. so yes they could send him to kill nathan. also he is a billion times more likely then peter. peter you can only say one thing. well the backside looked some what similar. HRG there are tons of reasons. again, like i have said close to a billion times, they make this very clear that the hit was planned by the company. it was planned in the present probably by bob after the cameras caught nathan talking about it. bob was taking about killing claire when she was gonna go public about them. it is the company's doing. they make that a fact. mrs. petrelli even knew about it. HRG has had to do dirty work for the company before. HRG is a good shot and uses guns where as peter does not. HRG will do anything to protect his family. HRG is not new to the idea of killing. HRG just got back with the company. peter just does not factor into this. at least nothing at all indicates he does at this point. im not saying 100% for sure that its not peter, but it certainly looks like a less than likely possibility. alot of people are making it a fact in their minds that its gonna be peter and really that is extremely premature. there is nothing to indicate it being peter at this point at all. true the backside rules out a few things of course. but it doesnt mean its peter. like ive said they used a stand in for sylar for his first several appearences on the show. it might not have even been what ever actor they are gonna use. it could be someone totally new. im not saying its HRG either. but in the argument between it being HRG or peter there is a hell of alot more reason to think its HRG. alot more.

[The Ninth Doctor]

Yeah, I said that he wan't at that time number 2. I remembered the scene differantly, that after Matt went on his little tirade HRG implied that he infact new of linderman's exicstance. But thank you for the clarification.

I'm saying that he's number 2 now. He was able to take down the company. If he had shot mohinder, bob would now be dead, there would be no company. Bob realised that, had him come back. HRG managed the US region, perhaps more, of the company for years. He's not a hit-man. And he's a great asset that Bob wouldn't send into a situation with a ton of armed guards and the man himself Pete there, as he has a very high chance of dying.

Anything, anything at all goes with Future Peter. Yes, its incredibly obvious that the company orchestrated the killing. That does not rule out FPeter. Like I said before though, that doesn't rule out Arthur Petrelli, or Uluru either. It just rules out one man.

Now, they used a stunt double for Sylar because Sylar was not yet cast. I really doubt they'd do the same for a character that has already been cast. So if we can prove that's not Jack Coleman, then HRG as shooter is done.

So, does anyone have any comparable pics of JC to the pics we have the shooter?

What about Milo Ventimiglia?

[Xanderman]

Originally posted by The Ninth Doctor
Now, they used a stunt double for Sylar because Sylar was not yet cast. I really doubt they'd do the same for a character that has already been cast.I also highly doubt they're doing it in this case. I'm sure the shooter will be the same person we saw, it would be so cheap and a total cheat on fans if that was just some stand-in (and since it resembled Milo to me, that would make the stand-in Milo then, lol which is especially cheap).

The shooter looked like a younger man to me, ruling out HRG. Milo fits the bill body size and frame wise, and when I first saw the scene, I remember thinking it was him. Again if that's worth anything.

And like I said in my previous post, it is unlikely to me that a "normal" could get away with the shooting with the godlike Peter standing right there. This fact provides further support for it being Future Peter, and at the same time further eliminates HRG.

And I must have missed something guys, but why is it so obvious that the Company orchestrated the hit? I only saw the episode once, and for some reason I was never left with that impression.

[thefilmguy22384]

well they did use a stand in for sylar so its definately not far fetched at all. in the film buisness, some times actors are unavailable for certain shooting days, some times because of scheduling conflicts, so they get a stand in. i heard they had reshot the end of the finale because of the writers strike so they may have had to get a stand in for that reason. also, just like with sylar, its very plausible to think that if this is a new character that, because they wont even be seen until next season, that they used a stand in for now. why would you seek out an actor and pay him when he wont even be seen or used until next season? again they did it with sylar so we know that they have done this before so its plausible that they did it again. like the guy they got for a stand in for sylar, if you look closely, was a much older guy than zachary quinto. the shooters appearence doesnt mean anything for sure. stand ins are used often in the buisness.

i think your reading too much into with thinking that a shooter couldnt get passed peter. as we know the writing hasnt been top notch for peter this season. i mean it did take 4 people to convince him adam was bad and why the hell didnt peter just read adams mind? some times they have loose ends on the show obviously. i still definately dont think anyone has ruled HRG out as the shooter. there is alot of reason to think it could be him. you cant say its not him just from a distant shot of the backside of the shooter.

im not sure how you missed it was the company's doing. i suggest you see the episode again. ive stated the reasons in previous posts. we know bob was gonna kill claire to silence her when she was gonna go public about the company. the company security cameras in the vault recorded nathan saying that he was gonna reveal the company. then there was mrs. petrelli's convo on the phone at the end, presumably to bob, saying "it had to be done." also just the fact that a gun was used says alot. now im not saying for sure that it was HRG. but it was the company. they made that pretty clear. it would just make sense for it to be HRG because he had just gotten back with them. he said that he just made a deal with the company that would keep his family safe. he has killed for them before. he is a good shot. it just makes sense. it also makes sense from a dramatic stand point. HRG shoots and possibly kills his daughters bio dad. that would create some pretty big drama next season. its an ironic situation.

also you just have to think about the characters of HRG and peter and think which one is more likely to be capable of that. we all know HRG is. HRG also has obviously been used as a hit man before. like when they wanted him to kill claude, his old partner. its not unlikely that he would be used so again especially considering the he just got back. i really doubt even future peter would shoot his bro. if he didnt want nathan to spill the beans on the company he would have just gone back in time and talked to him about it. why the hell would he just shoot him? this is his bro we are talking about. it makes no sense. why kill nathan, the most important person in his life, when he can just simply talk to him and tell him why he shouldnt go public? its not at all logical no matter what the circumstances.

i dont really know what else to say. the only thing we know for sure is that the company was behind it. the most likely person in the cast, based on the evidence, is HRG. that doesnt mean its gonna be him but it just makes the most sense. the peter thing is all speculation. there is nothing to support it being him at this point in the show. now thats not saying that they wont make a twist but as of now there is nothing indicating it being peter. unfortunately we are gonna have a bit of a wait here until we find out. just have to wait and see.

[The Ninth Doctor]

If its a new guy, then I definately agree that they would have used a stand in. It would be very unlikely that they would get a guy to come all the way down there, do a three second scene where they don't even see his face, and then let him go for the next few months until the writer's strike is all sorted out. Since the majority of the episode was reshot to accomade Exodus' exclusion, I think most of the actors would be on hand. But then again, though it is unlikely, you are correct that the writer's strike and reshoot could have caused one of the actor's to be unavailable.

Xanderman, they made a really big point of showing the camera in the vault. Not only did they have a huge blinking red light, that Nathan should have seen, but they cut to the camera's viewpoint as he was saying that they were going to go public. And then after the shooting you have Mrs. Petrelli talking to the orchestrater, which I admit doesn't have to be Bob, but the way she speaks to him implies she's talking to an equall, a SuperElder.

I think that, since Peter's been acting like Clark this season, maybe the shooter could have gotten past him. But not Matt. He'd been influencing the minds of every man in that area, so they should've been pretty blank, leaving the shooter's thoughts loud and clear for him to whammy.

I conceed that HRG, if Parkman had not been there, would have been wholly capable of shooting Nathan. I just don't see Bob sending him to do it. And after all the soap opera dad reveals in the first two volumes, I really doubt they're going to throw even more out there.

At this point though, I'm routing for it to be Uluru. Why? Because, we need some answers about this guy/thing Mr. Kring!

[Xanderman]

I completely forgot the camera thing, that points to the company most definitely if they were in company territory. And since the shooter doesn't really look like HRG to me based on screenshots, and since FPeter now seems unlikely based on the camera stuff, I'd say it's probably going to be a new character. Because if it was supposed to be HRG, then that actor would have played the person we saw walking away, not some stand-in that resembles Milo, or even Milo himself. But then again, maybe that was HRG, I don't really know for sure what the dude looks like from behind, lol.


Originally posted by The Ninth Doctor
I think that, since Peter's been acting like Clark this season, maybe the shooter could have gotten past him. But not Matt. He'd been influencing the minds of every man in that area, so they should've been pretty blank, leaving the shooter's thoughts loud and clear for him to whammy.The shooter seemed pretty confident and just smoothly walked away. The company knows about Peter, so maybe he was neutralized in some way. Perhaps the Haitian was around? (This is assuming Peter hasn't absorbed his ability, which would make the Haitian ineffective against him. Part of me thinks the Haitian's ability is unabsorbable, due to the nature of the ability which involves neutralizing other powers.)


Originally posted by thefilmguy22384
then there was mrs. petrelli's convo on the phone at the end, presumably to bob, saying "it had to be done."Well this doesn't necessarily mean she was talking to someone from the company, it could have been FPeter. However the camera thing changes things as I've said above, so it probably wasn't Peter.

i really doubt even future peter would shoot his bro. if he didnt want nathan to spill the beans on the company he would have just gone back in time and talked to him about it. why the hell would he just shoot him? this is his bro we are talking about. it makes no sense. why kill nathan, the most important person in his life, when he can just simply talk to him and tell him why he shouldnt go public? its not at all logical no matter what the circumstances.
It would be unlike the Peter we know now, yes, but as I said before FPeter could be a different/changed person, for whatever reason. Plus Peter may have wanted the assassination attempt to be a big public thing, and real, for maximum effect. Afterall it was probably intended as a warning more than anything, especially if the shooter was FPeter who knows Nathan wouldn't stay dead for long thanks to his younger self. (A warning not just for Nathan, but for others who would dare out the secret.)

So anyway I'm letting go of the FPeter as the shooter theory, and my money is now on someone new, who works for or is connected in some way to the company. But I don't really know what Noah's backside looks like I guess, lol in which case he is another good candidate. Again he wouldn't have been actually trying to kill Claire's father here, as he knows about Peter and healing blood, making the whole thing just a dramatic warning.

[The Ninth Doctor]

Hmmm I wonder- if the hatian's around, would Peter's blood even work on Nathan?


EDIT: hmmm. This was my 666th post :eek:. Very forboding regarding Nathan's future.... ;)

[Socrate]

Think it would lose its properties - make them be inactive, till he leaves area.

[The Ninth Doctor]

I'm thinking so too. If the Hatian is blocking Peter, than he's not producing the superblood.

[thefilmguy22384]

i think its possible that the writers will make matt stupid too in not stopping the shooter. it feels like they rushed the writing on the last episode. things felt a little sloppy in the execution of it. due to the writers strike i guess. everyone in the last couple of episodes felt a little off their game. so i wouldnt put it passed them to not think of it. i also think that they will continue the soap opera with HRG. its just a part of the characters formula. something shady and dramatic is always going on with him. its his role on the show to carry that extra weight. i think out of the main cast he is definately the top suspect. so if its not him most likely it will be someone new i think.

again i dont think HRG can be dismissed as a suspect from the backside. this episode felt rushed and more sloppy than usual. ive seen bad stand in work before. especially in action films. some times the stand in looks nothing like the actor. if they did rush to shoot that end because of the writers strike i think it makes sense to some degree.

as far as the hatian blocking peters superblood, we now know that the superblood doesnt have to be given immediately. HRG was obviously dead for some time before he was given the superblood. he appeared to have been dead for at least 24 hours. so even if peters blood doesnt work there he can give it to nathan later. basically if the writers dont have peter save nathan with his blood then i think thats a huge plot hole that will just make peter look stupid. which they have been doing alot this season. it pisses me off. like in the first season peter was one of the few characters the embraced his hero role and he was constantly moving the plot forward. this season he made every mistake in the book. he went from being one of the smarter characters on the show to being one of the dumbest this season. the peter we saw especially near the end of this season is not the same peter i knew from last season. he is a dumbed down version. i really hope they fix this. peter knows he has the superblood so he knows he can heal nathan. if he doesnt then that would be bad writing. im not saying its bad writing to have nathan die, though i would prefer he lives. but it is bad writing to set up that peter has the ability to save nathan but some how forgets at the most crucial moment. they really gotta stop screwin up peters character. he was probably my favorite character in the first season and i hate to see him slowly turning into rainman.

[Socrate]

When considering the shooting itself I was thinking same, that producers probably just didn't care about Matts and Peter presence there. Besides Matts power nature isn't or at least yet, his "spider-sense" which tracks all danger so if hitman was trained or just thinking lets say about: doing his "job" and going home, Matt would have no clue what his going to do.

About resurrecting Nathan hm I agree that there are few relativly easy ways for them to heal him - use Peter/find Clare use clear/find Adam use Adam/ so yeah they would have to be dumm not to try . But as I posted weeks or two ago I want flyman back much but even more I hope the show wont change into DB where nobody dies and You jawn when someone is killed. I only wonder how writers will avoid that since they already took that path bringing 2 characters back in 3 episodes period.

ps: If they go find Alejandro and bring him back I will eat season 1 dvdbox and start watching Bionic Woman :P

[thefilmguy22384]

haha i doubt they will bring Alejandro back so i think your safe on that one. i totally agree that they have kinda opened a door that is going to be very hard to close now with the healing blood thing. every time someone dies the fans are just gonna ask themselves well why doesnt peter or claire just use their blood to save them. its tricky. i guess as long as a character dies and is no where near peter or claire they will stay dead. they need to find a way to set some limitations on how much the blood can help. like it must be given in a certain time or it wont work. though they kinda already screwed that up by showing HRG getting healed like 24 hours after he died.

in the case of nathan though it would be really dumb if peter didnt save him. he knows he has adams healing power. if peter doesnt save him then he will officially have become an idiot. which would be a real shame because first season peter was my favorite character. they screwed him up really bad in this season and i really want to see peter return to how he was before. he was way too easily manipulated and thick headed this season. i mean its one thing to not listen to a woman, that you dont know, tell you adam is bad but hiro, matt, and even nathan at first? come on peter! hiro told you to save the cheerlader, save world. he certainly lead you the right way then. it just pissed me off. the writers have to make up for peters bad writing at the end of the season. if they make him dumb enough not save his bro then im not sure how i will feel about peter anymore. he cant possibly be that stupid. the first season he, along with hiro, was the most active character in saving the day. he was constantly pushing the plot forward. he was the wise one. how did he turn into the dumb one?

in this case they have to have peter heal nathan because otherwise it is a huge plot hole that will just make peter look stupid. peter is too cool for that.

[Xanderman]

I'm thinking so too. If the Hatian is blocking Peter, than he's not producing the superblood.Even if he's not producing new r-blood, he still has existing r-blood to work with, so even if the Haitian was around, I could still see him being able to heal Nathan. I doubt the Haitian's ability would affect the blood at all as his power targets other people's powers, and as it relates to r-blood, that power is the ability to produce r-blood. Any r-blood already made should be safe and free from his influences.


in the case of nathan though it would be really dumb if peter didnt save him. he knows he has adams healing power. if peter doesnt save him then he will officially have become an idiot. which would be a real shame because first season peter was my favorite character. they screwed him up really bad in this season and i really want to see peter return to how he was before. he was way too easily manipulated and thick headed this season. i mean its one thing to not listen to a woman, that you dont know, tell you adam is bad but hiro, matt, and even nathan at first? come on peter! hiro told you to save the cheerlader, save world. he certainly lead you the right way then..Lol I've complained about the exact same things as well, couldn't agree more. The whole not trusting Hiro over Adam stuff was really dumb writing. Hiro's conviction should have at least been enough for Peter to finally mind-probe Adam to see if there was anything to Hiro's ramblings, but of course that didn't happen because Peter was apparently just too in love with his new best friend by this point to listen to reason.:lol: Even though the ep was probably written before the strike happened, I'm sure a lot of re-writes/edits happen just before or during filming, and no doubt a key writer probably wasn't around for this to happen to point out how dopey a lot of the stuff ended up being.

[heroinall1]

multiple things can happen next season
1 Both nathan and nikki will be back but one will turn out to be sylar.
2 Claire will show up to give nathan her blood. after seeing it on the news.
3 peter trys to heal nathan using his blood but it don't work or does maybe giving side effects.
4 he gets saved and peter and nathan starts their own undeground justice league.
I firmly believe that sylar will be pretending to be someone else on the show maybe even maya's bro.

[thefilmguy22384]

supposedly the rumor is that nathan will indeed be back. thats good news. i hear that he and peter will be getting alot more to do together this season then last. i also hear that nathan will be getting some more screen time with claire. this is all good to hear. i think the rumor came from an adrian pasdar interview or something. sylar pretending to be maya's bro is unlikely now because she already knows about sylar killing him. from what im reading and seeing in the trailers sylar isnt pretending to be anyone from heroes. he seems to be starting an underground super villain faction from the looks of it or something. then again having one of the leads turn out to be sylar could be a cool twist if done right. i will stay on the look out for that one.

[Xanderman]

the pics STFanatic/Steve posted say otherwise if you ask me. It looks more like Peter than it does HRG imo. Plus I thought it was Peter during viewing, if first impressions mean anything... (I never saw the ep again though)

Here's one of the pics from Steve:
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k292/Startrekfanatic/Heroes%20Stuff/Killer2.gif

That doesn't look like HRG in the slightest (IMO). But it definitely resembles Peter.Yup. *pats self on back* :lol: (it's good to be right, lol)


i dont know where everyone is getting this future peter killing nathan stuff. i think they make it pretty clear that it was noah.You were saying? :lol: