Indestructable Blue Crystal....

[maryjanewatson]

destroyed by a powerless Kyrptonian?

It was stated in "kara" that even her ship blowing up wouldn't have put a scratch on that crystal. So how did Clark, a powerless kryptonian, destroy it?

[Dark_Superman]

we will all just agree that it was the fortresses doing or the ring magically disappeared right before he destroyed the crystal lol... big plot hole

[Jephael]

I'm sure the impact against the fortress wall caused the crystal to shatter.

[DarkChilde]

The fortress crystals are probably similar to the blue crystal. But who really knows...

[Guidron]

I think it was because he smashed it against the fortress' crystals. A ship explosion may not be able to destroy it, but smashing it against a stronger substance was able to destroy it. The fortress crystals were the stronger of the two.

[maryjanewatson]

But if a person throws a diamond against another diamond, it won't shatter. Shouldn't the same logic apply to the crystals?

what am I saying. The same people who wrote that part of the episode also wrote the Grant/Julian part. *rolls eyes*

[Mello Penelo]

I think we've all established that Al/Miles are clueless when it comes to the implementation of this show.

[Mischael12]

diamond is one of the hew things that can cut diamond it sorta makes sense in part with the crystals...same material so they are even.

[maryjanewatson]

I know diamond can cut diamond. But if a person of normal strength throws a diamond against another diamond, the diamonds won't shatter.

So my point is how is it possible for someone of normal human strength to destroy a crystal that a nuclear explosion couldn't scratch, just by throwing it against another crystal?

[xrayvision]

They did say a Kryptonian can destroy it with their hands, but Clark was powerless at that time. A minor plothole because I doubt it would shatter, but this is one of those things I can overlook.

[Mischael12]

The edges of the fortress crystals are sharp, there are also points in where you will hit a crystal that will cause it to shatter, Clark got lucky to find it.

[TampaVille]

Originally posted by xrayvision
They did say a Kryptonian can destroy it with their hands, but Clark was powerless at that time. A minor plothole because I doubt it would shatter, but this is one of those things I can overlook.

If every now and then there were some plot hole like that, then I'd be willing to overlook it as well. It's almost every episode though. This episode actually gave us two big plot holes (that and the mysterious change in Julian Luthor's age). The problem is just that the SV writers don't seem to be very good at, well, writing. And at the same time that they're turning in stories with more holes than baby swiss cheese, they're demanding a raise...

[Superbeard]

The crystal shattered because it was slammed against other Kryptonian crystals, and Clark's blue ring simply vanished along with Zor-El and Lara.

[TheANIMAL (marcus)]

Clark had a big breakfast that morning.

[TampaVille]

Originally posted by Superbeard
The crystal shattered because it was slammed against other Kryptonian crystals, and Clark's blue ring simply vanished along with Zor-El and Lara.


The ring disappearing makes enough sense. The crystal was described as being able to withstand a small nuclear explosion though. Clark had no powers. Smashing one indestructable object against another indestructable object doesn't make one of them shatter. Imagine if you, a fairly normal human as far as the absense of super-strength goes (I'll assume) slammed, say, a rod of titanium against another rod of titanium. Neither would shatter. In fact, nothing would happen at all. You might hurt your arm. That's it.

Sounds to me like... here it comes... plothole!

:)

[Mischael12]

Again the Part of the crystals that he slammed it into were sharp

[maryjanewatson]

Originally posted by Mischael12
Again the Part of the crystals that he slammed it into were sharp
just because something is sharp doesn't mean it can shatter something thats basically indestructible.

[litew8]

Yea, Jor-El's technology (white crystals) is more superior than Zor-El's technology (blue crystal).

[borednow]

Kara said only a Kryptonian, didn't say they had to have powers, how that works I have no clue but I guess it's the same reason only Clark could remove the Blue crystal, and the ring shattered off Clark's hands as he broke the crystal, if you look at the high-res caps of the scene you can see it.

[TampaVille]

Originally posted by borednow
Kara said only a Kryptonian, didn't say they had to have powers, how that works I have no clue but I guess it's the same reason only Clark could remove the Blue crystal, and the ring shattered off Clark's hands as he broke the crystal, if you look at the high-res caps of the scene you can see it.

The ring didn't shatter. It disappeared in the same way that Lara and Zor-El disappeared. It wasn't "real" in the same way that they weren't "real." Or you could think of it as being a part of the Lara replicant.

[Mischael12]

crystalline structures aren't the same as your normal solid structures anyway, they are in someways superior and inferior.

If you take something that is just as strong as something else, they even out.

Why do when people punch clark he doesn't move, yet when punched by someone of equal strength they can send him flying?

Its the same with the crystal, and that plus at the smallest point, your exerting more pressure at a singular point, which would possible destroy a crystal, its not impossible if you look at it.

[TampaVille]

Originally posted by Mischael12
If you take something that is just as strong as something else, they even out.

Why do when people punch clark he doesn't move, yet when punched by someone of equal strength they can send him flying?


If Titan had swung a baseball bat at Clark though, Clark would have been thoroughly unaffected. Or a lead pipe, or any implement. The reason Clark can be bruised/injured when supervillains hit him is because they are both more or less invulnerable themselves, and they're hitting him really really hard.

Had Clark swung the blue crystal into the Fortress crystals at superspeed or with superstrength, I wouldn't have much trouble with the scenario. But he was just a regular Joe with that ring on.

Think about it with two diamonds. If you smashed two diamonds together, nothing would happen. They're both as strong as one another, and relatively indestructible, but nothing would happen. They don't just cancel each other out and turn into manilla wafers. Now if Clark with super powers had smashed the same to diamonds, and one or both shattered, fine, no problemo. It doesn't make sense though if you describe something as indestructible one episode, and then have it destroyed in this manner in another.

[Cyclops1974]

Well, maybe the fortress' crystals did something. A power surge or something. Maybe in the end it wasn't Clark, but the kryptonian technology inside the fortress.

[Mischael12]

Again he didn't smash crystal against crystal side to side, he smashed a wide area against a area with a smaller point, that would result in shattering.

If Titan swung a bat at Clark, Clark would be sent flying, because Titan implements his own force, through the bat, and unto clark, the bat would have shattered, but Clark would have been injured.

[TampaVille]

Originally posted by Mischael12
Again he didn't smash crystal against crystal side to side, he smashed a wide area against a area with a smaller point, that would result in shattering.

If Titan swung a bat at Clark, Clark would be sent flying, because Titan implements his own force, through the bat, and unto clark, the bat would have shattered, but Clark would have been injured.

That is incorrect. I don't want this to become argumentative, so keep an open mind. Let's say that Titan and Clark were about comparable in terms of strength. And let's say that you and I are about comparable in terms of strength. If I hit you over the head with a baseball bat, you'd be hurt. That has something to do with my strength, and your resiliency, but also and most importantly, the object with which I am hitting you. Now imagine I hit you with a nerf woofle bat. Or imagine I hit you with a bat made out of manilla wafers. You will be uninjured.

For Clark and Titan, a wooden baseball bat is probably comparable to what a manilla wafer baseball bat would be to a normal human. Even if I swung a wafer bat at you with all my might, I could not hurt you. In the same way, Titan simply could not hurt Clark with a baseball bat.

[last man of krypton]

Is it possible that once the Zor-El and Lara essence left the crystal, it lost the ability to be virtually indestructible? Like it only needed to have a strong defence to protect the DNA, but once the Fortress technology accessed it, it became like any other crystal.

[TampaVille]

Originally posted by last man of krypton
Is it possible that once the Zor-El and Lara essence left the crystal, it lost the ability to be virtually indestructible? Like it only needed to have a strong defence to protect the DNA, but once the Fortress technology accessed it, it became like any other crystal.

That's interesting. That would work. I doubt that is what they intended us to believe, but I'd have been pretty content if Kara had said something like that.

Lara: "Destroy the crystal!"
Clark: "I can't, I don't have my powers!"
Kara: "It's not indestructible once its been activated!"

That would have worked. Good thinking.

[Mischael12]

Haven't we seen people as strong as clark yank out poles, and what not, hit clark with them and send him flying?

Even in other comics we have seen superman get hit by objects that he is more resilient too, but still get damaged because of the person using it against him.

So its fully possible that contact against the two would work. Again my point is that though the crystal may have been indestructible on our means, it was still push with force against an object that is just as strong, and even yet at the focal point of the object, which in most cases is stronger.

[TampaVille]

Originally posted by Mischael12
Haven't we seen people as strong as clark yank out poles, and what not, hit clark with them and send him flying?

Even in other comics we have seen superman get hit by objects that he is more resilient too, but still get damaged because of the person using it against him.


Oh, I'm not saying Clark couldn't go flying if he got hit with something hard enough. Maybe an aluminum baseball bat, just for argument's sake. But it shouldn't leave a bruise.

[Mischael12]

Doesn't mean he wouldn't be shaken up or feel some sort of "Pain"

[Heroes]

No i dont think its a plot hole at all. It's mearly how clark was the only one to open the exit from the phantom zone. Only Clark can do some things. and if u think back it was said that only clark can break the crystal. So i think its a Heritage thing not a power thing.

[TampaVille]

Originally posted by Mischael12
Doesn't mean he wouldn't be shaken up or feel some sort of "Pain"

Would you be shaken up or feel pain if I hit you with a baseball bat made of marshmallow?

[Mischael12]

The thing is that the bat isn't made of marshmallow its a solid object that causes impact upon a wide area, being swung by a being who can put the force of that impact to him.

Theres more to it than just the object is weak.

Through a small stone at someone normally and it probably won't do that much damage, attach that stone to a sling and you can probably break through their skin.

[TampaVille]

Originally posted by Mischael12
The thing is that the bat isn't made of marshmallow its a solid object that causes impact upon a wide area, being swung by a being who can put the force of that impact to him.

Theres more to it than just the object is weak.

Through a small stone at someone normally and it probably won't do that much damage, attach that stone to a sling and you can probably break through their skin.

And do the same thing at Superman, and it will have no effect. No matter how hard you sling a small stone at Superman, the stone simply does not possess the structural integrity necessary to do him any damage. It is indeed very similar to trying to sling a marshmallow at a mountain. You can sling marshmallows all day long, and the mountain won't be any the worse for it.

Anyway, we've both made our points. We've both used fanciful metaphors. I think at this point, unless one of us comes up with something new to say, this discussion has run its course.

Good chatting with you.

[All about Clark]

I have to agree it being a plothole. It would have made more sense if Lara told Clark to give her the crystal so she could destroy it, but I can see that TPTB wanted it to look like Clark's decision to destroy it, but he clearly didn't have the powers to do it, although he was the only one who could pull it from the console.

[TampaVille]

Originally posted by All about Clark
I have to agree it being a plothole. It would have made more sense if Lara told Clark to give her the crystal so she could destroy it, but I can see that TPTB wanted it to look like Clark's decision to destroy it, but he clearly didn't have the powers to do it, although he was the only one who could pull it from the console.

They could have made pulling it from the console be the way it is destroyed. That would have worked fine. I don't understand why Clark (or Lara, or Kara) couldn't have unveiled the sun by just by putting back the normal, white crystals that Zor-El rearranged to cloak it in the first place.

On a related note, it seems like poor planning to make the "blot out the sun" feature of the Fortress so easily implemented, lol.

[Mello Penelo]

I guess Al/Miles were hoping an eclipse would work as well for them as it did for Heroes.

[All about Clark]

Originally posted by TampaVille
They could have made pulling it from the console be the way it is destroyed. That would have worked fine. I don't understand why Clark (or Lara, or Kara) couldn't have unveiled the sun by just by putting back the normal, white crystals that Zor-El rearranged to cloak it in the first place.

On a related note, it seems like poor planning to make the "blot out the sun" feature of the Fortress so easily implemented, lol.

Personally I didn't understand how blotting out the sun was going to harm/kill humans. Did you get why that was harmful?

And I have to agree with you that pulling the crystal should have itself eliminated the ring, Zor-el and Lara. Not to mention he could have destroyed the crystal once the ring was gone and it would have been legit. And Jor-el was there to let Clark know how to put the crystals back the way they were to fix the sun problem.

[mistaguitarmasta]

I'm gonna hafta agree that no matter how hard someone hits Clark with a regular earth object, it's not gonna make a difference. A wooden bat will shatter and not harm him no matter if Martha or Titan swung it.


Originally posted by All about Clark
I have to agree it being a plothole. It would have made more sense if Lara told Clark to give her the crystal so she could destroy it, but I can see that TPTB wanted it to look like Clark's decision to destroy it, but he clearly didn't have the powers to do it, although he was the only one who could pull it from the console.

Yeah, it would make more sense, but let's be honest. If Clark had done that, there would have been 7890 threads saying "OMGZ CLARK WENT TO HIS MOMMY FOR HELP!!!!11" :lol:



Originally posted by All about Clark
Personally I didn't understand how blotting out the sun was going to harm/kill humans. Did you get why that was harmful?

Yeah I didn't get it either, but someone in another thread pointed out that if the sun was blocked for long enough, global cooling would ensue and we could enter an ice age.

[TampaVille]

Originally posted by All about Clark
Personally I didn't understand how blotting out the sun was going to harm/kill humans. Did you get why that was harmful?

And I have to agree with you that pulling the crystal should have itself eliminated the ring, Zor-el and Lara. Not to mention he could have destroyed the crystal once the ring was gone and it would have been legit. And Jor-el was there to let Clark know how to put the crystals back the way they were to fix the sun problem.

Agree with you completely. As far as blotting out the sun being harmful to humans, I think it was a long term plan. Permanent midnight would basically destroy the entire crop cycle. No food would mean rampant starvation. War would probably break out over what resources remained. Even though some humans would be able to survive on hydroponic produce, it would be pretty devestating. We're very reliant upon the sun. All that said, it was a pretty... I'll go with "odd" plan.


Originally posted by mistaguitarmasta
Yeah I didn't get it either, but someone in another thread pointed out that if the sun was blocked for long enough, global cooling would ensue and we could enter an ice age.

That's another good point. The vast bulk of us would have starved first though, and I don't think Zor-El wanted to freeze the Earth. Or maybe he did; perhaps Krypton was a colder planet than Earth is right now.

[Mischael12]

From what we have seen it would appear so that Krypton was. I mean in part due to Clarks ability to resist cold longer than we can, though that can be different, that plus they are resisted to the coldness of space.

[jeanator]

dude wasn't it made out of ice or something i mean krypton and

[TampaVille]

Originally posted by jeanator
dude wasn't it made out of ice or something i mean krypton and

Their technology was based on crystals as depicted in the movies and on SV. So far as I know, they don't mean ice crystals.

[hansioux]

Originally posted by maryjanewatson
I know diamond can cut diamond. But if a person of normal strength throws a diamond against another diamond, the diamonds won't shatter.

So my point is how is it possible for someone of normal human strength to destroy a crystal that a nuclear explosion couldn't scratch, just by throwing it against another crystal?

i urge you to obtain two diamonds the same size as the crystals in the show, and do a myth buster style test.

if you need funding, you could record it and plug for the Yaris.

[Mischael12]

Like i said i figured its because it was pushed against the edge. of the crystal.

Even though diamonds are extremely hard, they can still be damaged from abuse. Diamonds can scratch each other and all other gemstones, such as sapphires, rubies, emeralds, and pearls. Store your diamonds away from other gems in your jewelry box and don't wear any valuable gemstones while doing hard work. http://www.eglusa.com/faqs.html

Here diamonds can scratch each other, so I would assume in the case of the crystals they could scratch each other as well.

Again i'm thinkin its because Clark smashed it against the point of Jor-el's crystal and not the side to side.

[TampaVille]

Originally posted by Mischael12
Like i said i figured its because it was pushed against the edge. of the crystal.

Even though diamonds are extremely hard, they can still be damaged from abuse. Diamonds can scratch each other and all other gemstones, such as sapphires, rubies, emeralds, and pearls. Store your diamonds away from other gems in your jewelry box and don't wear any valuable gemstones while doing hard work. http://www.eglusa.com/faqs.html

Here diamonds can scratch each other, so I would assume in the case of the crystals they could scratch each other as well.

Again i'm thinkin its because Clark smashed it against the point of Jor-el's crystal and not the side to side.

I value and respect your opinions. I find the "bad writing" argument more compelling though. Recall Kara stated that a NUCLEAR EXPLOSION would not have scratched her crystal. We're not talking about diamonds. We're talking about a crystal which can literally withstand the most destructive force man has ever created. For them to tell us that her crystal could withstand a nuclear explosion, but if you bump it against another crystal it will shatter, I find ridiculous (even with your flat edge to point explanation). There is, of course, no "right" answer. You are entitled to your opinion (that there is a "good writing" explanation) and I'm entitled to mine.

[Mischael12]

The point of me using Diamonds is an example. On Earth Diamonds are the hardest materials that we have.

But perhaps on Krypton though, these Crystals may not be any stronger than average glass.

So If smashed against each other than yes I would still expect them to break. (The problem I have is that it should have taken more than one strike considering Clark's lack of strength)

As for bad writing, I would chock it up to giving poor explanation.

[TampaVille]

Originally posted by Mischael12
The point of me using Diamonds is an example. On Earth Diamonds are the hardest materials that we have.

But perhaps on Krypton though, these Crystals may not be any stronger than average glass.

So If smashed against each other than yes I would still expect them to break. (The problem I have is that it should have taken more than one strike considering Clark's lack of strength)

As for bad writing, I would chock it up to giving poor explanation.

On Earth, they can withstand a nuclear detonation. That doesn't change just because they're in the Fortress.

Bad writing.

[Mischael12]

They can withstand a earthly nuclear explosion. The Crystal in terms of earth is superior, on terms of another kryptonian object it isn't still superior.

I'm pretty sure if a nuke created by kryptonians were dropped on the crystal it would be destroyed.

[All about Clark]

Regardless of what those crystals could withstand on Earth or on Krypton, the fact remains that a powerless human Clark should not have had the force to cause one crystal to hit another hard enough for one to break.

[Mischael12]

Than the crystals were different in strength, Jor-el crystals were superior.

[TampaVille]

This thread is dead. I don't think anybody's said anything new in a long time. Everybody's made their point.

[Mischael12]

pretty much lol its one of those things that won't die. I'm sorry if i came off as frustrating I do agree with your opinion i just like to argue.

[TampaVille]

Originally posted by Mischael12
pretty much lol its one of those things that won't die. I'm sorry if i came off as frustrating I do agree with your opinion i just like to argue.

Not a problem. I'm always fine with some good natured debate. It's only when people start getting (irrationally) personally attached to theories about a fictional character whose powers follow fictional rules which are constantly changing and which the writers themselves seem not to understand that I find the discussion to be... how should I put this politely... less than intellectually stimulating. I'm glad I don't edit my posts for kryptonsite, that last line was borderline incoherent, haha. At any rate, yes, always happy to discuss if the other person also has the right attitude. But I don't think I'll be posting any further on this thread. :)

[Mischael12]

Nothing more to say we both made our points good discussing with you...though really i never got how Clark could well lose his powers but meh....

[Dri-Sa]

plot hole

[the highlander]

one more plot hole?

If the blue crystal strips clark of his powers, why didn't the green K affect him? Or you are telling me that his body TOTALLY changes with blue K?

[TampaVille]

Originally posted by the highlander
one more plot hole?

If the blue crystal strips clark of his powers, why didn't the green K affect him? Or you are telling me that his body TOTALLY changes with blue K?

The show is very inconsistent in general regarding when his weakness goes along with his powers. I can kind of accept that one. It's still a good point out though.