No Claire

[HowardFilms]

To my knowledge, Claire was the only character to be in all Season 1 episodes...apparently not so for Season 2...

Does this mean that a focus on Hiro and Peter (the other two truly main characters IMO) will continue in the future?

Because, not that I don't like the Bennets, but that would be so much better. I'm tired of Claire's angst and popularity issues juxtapositioned with Peter dealing with viral holocaust and Hiro taking on an army of samurai...

[Alexander III]

I'm tired TIRED TIRED of Claire's cheerleading crap. Also I'm no high schooler and so damn NOT into this high school sh!t.

[Son of Kal-El20]

The only way Claire can branch out is if she gets away from HRG.

[Mello Penelo]

I hate Claire's character. I wish Sylar had gotten her. :\

I hate HRG for being a tightwad. It's like his underwear is so tight none of the blood can reach his head. He's a horrible character and I wish he would just die.

[HowardFilms]

I actually prefer HRG just because his story is more into the main one, with the company.

For some reason, we're still supposed to care whether Claire has a boyfriend, or makes the cheerleading squad. No doubt soon she'll be up for Prom Queen...

[pycer]

I think they are going the 'Buffy' route with Claire, or attempting to juxtopose these catostrophic world changing events with a girl trying to have a normal life. It worked on Buffy because that was the singular focus of the show, doesnt work so well on Heroes because of the massive cast and various intersecting storylines. I like Claire in general, just not this specific sotry line shes stuck in. I also like HRG a great deal as I can relate to him and his motivations rather easily.

[Sweetie]

Yeah!But,if they really want to tell the story of these heroes the right way.They have to choose the best characters to make the show progresses.There are so many characters and even new ones that they can't appear all on one the episode at the same time.I think it's was ok not to show Claire,HRG,West and MR,Muggles this time around because it was the time to tell what happen to Peter?How did he ended up all tied up like that.I guess all the characters who were in tonight episode are related to Peter's story.

They probably told Nikki's story because she is going to die soon.It was great to see what happened to her husband and son.We know why Miccah ended up with his grand-ma.


But,don't worry.Claire,HRG,Mohinder and West are back next week.

[JudasAce]

I like Claire, but they need to give her something else to do besides worry about Cheerleading and boys. This isn't the OC, and they shouldn't be devoting their limited airtime to trying to appeal to that fanbase.

[Son of Kal-El20]

Problem is, she doesn't know how to fight. If she fought Elle or Monica, she get her a** kicked.

[flying_girl]

well it seems to me that the next time they show her she has to worry about being kidnapped. bob sent mo after her with a gun. i think the high school stuff is done. hey, maybe mo shoots west that will get rid of him for you.

[Ginx]

Originally posted by Alexander III
I'm tired TIRED TIRED of Claire's cheerleading crap. Also I'm no high schooler and so damn NOT into this high school sh!t.

Same here :) -

I thought that Claire would be more grown up in Vol. 2 because of all she went through last Vol. but no - she's digressed and not moved forward. I figured she'd still be in high school but that her maturity level and intelligence would have advanced - but no such luck.

I would be a very happy camper if they focused on Peter and Sylar and kept Parkman and HRG in the storylines too.


Originally posted by flying_girl
well it seems to me that the next time they show her she has to worry about being kidnapped. bob sent mo after her with a gun. i think the high school stuff is done. hey, maybe mo shoots west that will get rid of him for you.

If West gets shot I think that you would hear a unified scream of joy around the whole world lol.......

[samwinchestermustdie]

Originally posted by Mello Penelo
I hate Claire's character. I wish Sylar had gotten her. :\

I hate HRG for being a tightwad. It's like his underwear is so tight none of the blood can reach his head. He's a horrible character and I wish he would just die.
ok agreed claire's character a little boring right now but that is a little harsh. and by the way how can you hate hrg and i hope these two stay till the end.

[Son of Kal-El20]

I like staring at her. Don't bash her, she's cool. She just needs to grow up.

[samwinchestermustdie]

Originally posted by Son of Kal-El20
I like staring at her. Don't bash her, she's cool. She just needs to grow up.
dude didn't you put on another post recently that you hate her.

[HowardFilms]

He saw her picture again and changed his mind

:lol:

[Mello Penelo]

Originally posted by samwinchestermustdie
by the way how can you hate hrg

Because he's a bad person and an uninteresting character.

[Son of Kal-El20]

HRG is becoming what Lex should've became on Smallville. Dangerous and very lethal. We might be seeing the creation of a human villain. We have two super villains in Sylar and Adam. Now we need a mean human villain.

[Mello Penelo]

No one knows if Adam is bad. Yet.

Just because he got pissed off at Hiro doesn't mean he's a villain. Just human.

[Son of Kal-El20]

After you watch episode 11, you will know that he is a villain. His true master plan will be revealed.

[pycer]

HRG is my hero :)

[RedPhoenix23]

Originally posted by Alexander III
I'm tired TIRED TIRED of Claire's cheerleading crap. Also I'm no high schooler and so damn NOT into this high school sh!t.

I've lost interest in her this season but I do think I understand her better then some of the peeps who tend to absolutely hate her now (I'm not saying that's you). I think much of Claire's destructive behavior has to do with the fact that she KNOWS that HRG is lying to her AGAIN. For example, she doesn't agree to West's scheme to get her on the cheerleading squad until after she talks to HRG and tries to find out where he's at, there's a quick snippet to her face where you can see that she knows he's lying and is ticked. Sadly, she just doesn't realize that he's not working with the company again and is actually doing all this bad stuff to protect her.

To use Smallville terms, it's like she's the Lana of Heroes and HRG is her Clark, well sort of, lol, just not "like that". Claire!Lana get's all pissed off at HRG!Clark's secerts and lies and does and says some pretty beatchy things that from her prespective are totally justifyable. But us, the audience know that from HRG!Clark's perspective he was actually trying to protect her. But thing with Claire!Lana is that West ain't no Lex soooooo.... yeah..... boring.

If they could just bring her back to the Petrelli's somehow, then I think she'd more interesting because there she get's to be a real character and actually do stuff like carry guns and be there to knock out dudes who go nuclear, with HRG, she's just sooooo boring with her little high school dilemas.

[The Ninth Doctor]

Originally posted by Son of Kal-El20
After you watch episode 11, you will know that he is a villain. His true master plan will be revealed.



Can we please not post spoilers outside of the clearly labeled spoiler forum? (Sorry for being angry, but I CONSTANTLY- through this forum and offline- unintentionaly get heroes stuff spoiled for me)


Anyway, Claire had evolved at the start of the season, as we saw when she decided to not take the down evil chearleader captain person, but instead to simply lay low, but a new influence changed that- the eternally despised West.


HRG has to be one of the most interesting characters on the show. He's the opposite of Bob- a good guy that does bad things to achieve the greater good.

This episode didn't need to show HRG/Claire's storline. We know that the great HRG got them to California. We don't need to know how. Their's no mystery- no one doubted that he could have managed it easily. We DID need to see why (not how, that was obvious) Pete was mindwiped, Nathan survived, DL died, etc, as there was no obvious path from HTSAEM to 6ML.

Though the lack of Mr. Muggles did drag the episode down quite a bit.......;)

[Ginx]

Originally posted by Mello Penelo
Because he's a bad person and an uninteresting character.

Really? Well I'll have to politely dissagree. I love HRG and his strange ways of becoming a psycho to protect Claire and his own hide. You just never know what he'll do next. I think Jack Coleman did a great job with the character.

Claire does need to grow up - too bad the writers won't let her - they're keeping her stuck as a rebel daddy's little girl and it's just growing old...... She's got a cool power, the potential to be an interesting character once again - they just need to make it happen.

I'm just tired of whiney blondes being on the show - oh wait, now they have a whiney black/brunette too - geez - can't a girl get a break and have some kinda decent strong female lead? arrrghhh

[RedPhoenix23]

Is that Maya? I'd give that girls whinning a break considering her sucking power kills peeps and she has so little control over it. I'd be a whiney mess too! I don't know if I'd cuddle up to some stranger that I met off of the side of the road before siding with my bro tho, even if that stranger was as sexy as Sylar. That's just wrong, especially after all he's done for her.

[Barogrei]

"If West gets shot I think that you would hear a unified scream of joy around the whole world lol......."
I'm starting to feel a little hostility toward myself. My surname is West.

[Mello Penelo]

Originally posted by Son of Kal-El20
After you watch episode 11, you will know that he is a villain. His true master plan will be revealed.

Good job genius. Just post a spoiler without caring who sees it.

I don't think Adam is bad. Self-centered, yes. But not bad.

[Barogrei]

Mello Penello, what is your account of what constitutes "bad"?

[Mello Penelo]

Adam didn't do anything bad in the past. He was willing to give the swordsmith's daughter and Hiro to Whitebeard for personal gain. He just wanted his cut and was willing to do whatever it took to get it.

That doesn't make him bad, just someone who looks out for no one but himself.

[Barogrei]

"he just wanted his cut and was willing to whatever it took to get it". I think that qualifies as bad, as if you're willing to do whatever it takes to advance your gain, than there will be situations in which you will do alot of evil things. Not being bad requires that you hold some factor in your actions other than egoism.

[Mello Penelo]

For Adam to be bad, he would not care about his personal well-being and would have a total disregard for everything.

Since he cared for Yaeko, Hiro (until he betrayed him) and Peter, he isn't a bad person. He just wants to get The Company back to the way it was when it was started.

I mean, shoot, I've pulled a girl's hair for kissing my (now ex-) bf. Of course he was mad at Hiro. I would be too.

[RedPhoenix23]

Bad people ussually only care about themselves. Only the truely crazy ones don't care about themselves and just their *evol* master plan.

Who says he actually cares about Peter? Peter was his ticket out of The Company's jail, of course he made buddy/buddy with him. He's manipulating him for his own means.

[Mello Penelo]

Nah. Peter and Adam are going to fight the evil Angela Petrelli and her next world-ruining evil scheme.

[Barogrei]

So, as you see it, for one to be bad, they must actually desire the pain or injustice of others? I think one could be extremely bad, even if that pain or injustice to others was not the exact object of their desires. If I have a relationship with someone, impregnate her, and then kill her in order that I do not have the legal responsibilities that fatherhood entails, that murder was still horrible, even though I did not directly desire her death, but the avoidance of a cost on myself. Although it may be true that a sociopath who desires pain, injustice, and death inandofitself, is pretty damn scary, one who is merely willing to have these ends as consequences in pursuit of another goal, namely self-interest, are still bad.

[Mello Penelo]

Please... don't use hypotheticals anymore.

Anyway, looking out for your own hide and wanting the best for yourself before others doesn't make you bad. Self-centered, yes.

I think everyone is so quick to assume Adam is the bad guy when:

a) there's a killer on the loose
b) Adam hit Hiro in the head

Those two don't isolated events don't make Adam the villain.

He's the easiest target to assume is the villain, but this is Heroes we're talking about. Where every action goes deeper than just what's done and said on the surface.

[Son of Kal-El20]

He's just a different type of villain. Villains come in all shapes and sizes.

[Mello Penelo]

I don't think he's a villain at all.

I think everyone should keep an eye on HRG. He's got a mean streak in him and he's on the verge of snapping.

[Barogrei]

Thank you, Son of Kal-el, in helping me to illustrate that although he may not be the villain that killed Kaito or is responsible for those deaths, he may still be a villain. And yes, Mello Penello, you are correct in that it does not necessarily follow
1. Kensei betrayed Hiro in the past
and
2. There is a killer responsible for the of some people, and the manner of their deaths would be consistent with Adam's abilities.

that

3. Adam is the killer

However, it also is not necessarily true that because that argument is not a logically valid, that Adam/Kensei is not a villain, either. Even if we suppose that Adam is not behind the killings of anyone in present-time, his actions of supplying White Beard with guns, disregarding the probably disastrous result of this, in exchange for his own interests of having part of the country, and Yaeko as his princess, constitute self-centeredness beyond that which is morally permissible.

I do not think that a degree of egoism is at all bad in people. In fact, I believe that just about everyone has a component in them that desires their own happiness and well-being. This inclination in mankind, to pursue one's own happiness, likely makes the world a better place, if you at all value human happiness, to which the contrary seems absurd. However, if your own happiness or well being is the only factor in consideration of action, you are necessarily an immoral person, and, in many given situations, will be a villain. Adam's action of allying with Whitebeard clearly disregarded the enormous potential for death and misery in his action in favor of his own self-interest, and was definitely villainous.

On another note, why do you not want me to use hypotheticals? I try to use examples that will help to illustrate my point. If you believe there is a significant element in an example from Heroes that would make it incomparable to my analogue, please identify it in a post, and we may discuss it further. However, I do not understand why you believe that hypotheticals, or more specifically, mine, are inappropriate.

[Mello Penelo]

I meant that hypothetical. I see stuff about pregnancy and murder and things get blurry.

I meant don't do it again if those are the kind of hypotheticals you tend to use.

[Barogrei]

Well, I used that hypothetical because it clearly showed an instance in which one acted immorally, with a motivation apart from what you had considered to be a requirement: pain or injustice to others. I'm sorry, but I don't understand what you meant by blurry. I don't think that it is a matter of blurry, or grey, that killing someone coldly toward the ends of your own selfish gain is wrong. If this is not wrong, can you please give me an example of what is?

[Mello Penelo]

I get too upset when I think about murder and babies (sister-in-law lost hers in an accident). It was nothing to you, but when I see someone talk about those topics, I have a hard time finishing the subject.

I still don't think Adam is bad, though.

[The Ninth Doctor]

In the past, it seemed that Adam started out as a jerk, wanted to become a Hero, loved that he was able to, and then fell in a moment of weakness when his role model, the man who taught him everything about being the Good Guy, betrayed his friendship.

Of course, that was a few centuries from the modern day, so he may be a completely differernt person by now.



I personally disagree with Mello Penelo about whether Self-Centred-ness can make you bad, but agree that he is not a bad guy. Even if he is the Killer, I see him doing the same thing as HRG- taking out the people that would rather have millions die than a man reveal their existance to the world.

[Mello Penelo]

Originally posted by The Ninth Doctor
I personally disagree with Mello Penelo about whether Self-Centred-ness can make you bad

I didn't say being self-centered makes you bad. I said being bad and self-centeredness are two different things. That was my argument for why Adam is not a villain.