Which one is more like Isis? Lana or Chloe? [Archive] - KSiteTV Television & Movie Forums

harryandginnyfanatic

11-08-2007, 10:15 PM

According to Chloe Isis is the goddess of love, life and healing.

Sound like some one we know? ;)

On the other hand...

Isis is also the goddess of the underworld. And brought the great god Ra to his knees.

When Chloe said this she meant to imply that Lana represented that characteristic of Isis. But I think the first part relates more to Chloe.

Bigx07

11-08-2007, 11:12 PM

NOPE!!!

harryandginnyfanatic

11-08-2007, 11:34 PM

Originally posted by Bigx07
NOPE!!!

Nope?

BlueJay

11-08-2007, 11:39 PM

Originally posted by harryandginnyfanatic
According to Chloe Isis is the goddess of love, life and healing.

Sound like some one we know? ;)

On the other hand...

Isis is also the goddess of the underworld. And brought the great god Raw to his knees.

When Chloe said this she meant to imply that Lana represented that characteristic of Isis. But I think the first part relates more to Chloe.

Okay Chloe meant it in a negative way so I voted for Lana. However I agree that CHloe works with the first statement and honestly who wouldn't want to bring TW to his knees? ;)

AM4lois

11-09-2007, 12:49 AM

It depends on wich Isis. I thought the Chlana confrontation was clear enough?

If you mean Textbook Isis, Godess of Life, Love and Healing and that would go to the ends of the Earth for the man she loves? That's Chloe, the one with the healing power, the one with the name that means "Green Shoot" and willing to die for Clark (go to the ends of the Earth after him? No brainer. And if you think about it, she did that in Solitude.).

She's willing to die for him, while Lana is willing to kill; God, I love that scene.

But if you mean the Isis that the Textbook left out? Godess of the Underworld that made the great God Ra (note the Clark reference and connection to the Sun here, the translation for Ra is "Sun". We just learned in "Lara", that Clark's name comes from Krypton's Red Sun Kal-El.) fall to his knees? That's Lana right there. Lana is the Dark Lady of this tale already and what do we always complain about Lana? That she brings out the worst in Clark. That, and that she has Clark's balls in a shoe box under her bed... (I wish that was my quote...). And what about being the reason Clark's stuck in the farm? But maybe the reference to bringing him down could be something even worse in the future, because that sure sounds like foreshadowing.

So, who is more like Isis? Depends on wich Isis you're talking about... So, I'm not voting (I think I'm gonna go with the "Shelby" option). Because the show made clear that there are two Isis. Chloe and Lana are two sides of the same coin, if you will. Chloe is light, Lana is dark. I can't vote, they're both Isis.

harryandginnyfanatic

11-09-2007, 12:58 AM

I guess you could say that Chloe represents the light side of Isis and Lana the dark.

BlueJay

11-09-2007, 01:04 AM

That was quite poetic, wish Clark could see that.

hightower6969

11-09-2007, 02:55 AM

Together, they will form a true Isis of both worlds.

TampaVille

11-09-2007, 04:55 AM

Originally posted by hightower6969
Together, they will form a true Isis of both worlds.

When their powers combine...

Originally posted by AM4lois

But if you mean the Isis that the Textbook left out? Godess of the Underworld that made the great God Ra (note the Clark reference and connection to the Sun here, the translation for Ra is "Sun". We just learned in "Lara", that Clark's name comes from Krypton's Red Sun Kal-El.) fall to his knees?

Krypton's sun was called Rao (if memory serves), not Kal. I don't think anything in Lara gave the impression that SV is changing the name of Krypton's sun to Kal.

Also, the Egyptian god Ra was the sun god. They thought the sun was his chariot sailing across the sky. A pretty common theme for sun gods, actually.

aqgalaxy

11-09-2007, 06:33 AM

Originally posted by TampaVille
]
Krypton's sun was called Rao (if memory serves), not Kal. I don't think anything in Lara gave the impression that SV is changing the name of Krypton's sun to Kal.

That wasn't what my cousin was implying... she implied that the Kryptonian word for "Star" (Thus Kara's "Our sun would just be a distant star.") the word for Star is Kal

Isis' association with live, love, and healing actually come because another goddess' aspects were added to Isis' in later versions of the story. That other goddess was was Het-Hor (better known as Hathor) who was, originally, the wife of Ra and mother Horus. Well the association of Isis with those positive happy things is something of a false face (aka Lana) and those traits actually belong to Ra's true wife, Hathor... a goddess of fertility (and funny how the name Chloe actually means fertile). Hathor is also associated with water/tears/the Nile and the sky (the milky way specifically). Hathor was sometimes called "She with Two Faces" because she had another identity (the goddess Sehkmet - Ra's chief protector) before becoming Hathor. (And we always see Chloe protecting Clark...)

I just think it's funny... Each Character has their own myth links... like... Lana's history myth link is with Egypt, Lex is with Greeks, and Chloe is with the Romans... And Clark is what connects all of them

TampaVille

11-09-2007, 06:57 AM

Originally posted by aqgalaxy
That wasn't what my cousin was implying... she implied that the Kryptonian word for "Star" (Thus Kara's "Our sun would just be a distant star.") the word for Star is Kal

I just think it's funny... Each Character has their own myth links... like... Lana's history myth link is with Egypt, Lex is with Greeks, and Chloe is with the Romans... And Clark is what connects all of them

Ah, I definitely misunderstood your cousin. My apologies. And I like the myth links you pointed out, all very accurate.

harryandginnyfanatic

11-09-2007, 07:09 AM

Yeah, but that was Egypt.

More people like to connect Superman with Greek mythology.

aqgalaxy

11-09-2007, 07:21 AM

Originally posted by harryandginnyfanatic

More people like to connect Superman with Greek mythology.

It's not just Myths but their history as well...

also reminder that...Greeks are tied with both Romans and Egyptians...

Think about it... Lex Luthor is Alexander the Great... He built Alexandria, birth place of the famous Cleopatra who seduced Julius Caesar and had his child... JUST so she can remain queen... When Caesar was assassinated she seduced Mark Antony and backed him in the civil war against Augustus.

Here we see Lex as Alexander, Caesar, and Antony....

Lana is Cleopatra, Lex created the DarkLana or basically forced the darkness... There's was the fake baby plot...

In terms of the Civil war... Late Season 5 and early Season 6... Lana was in full support of Lex... despised Clark...

I think it's funny that in the end of it all... Cleopatra betrayed Antony... manipulated him so he commits suicide and after his death try to make a deal with Agustus to keep her thrown... (Funny, Lana tried to frame Lex in her murder [Lex not fighting agrees turns himself in] and returned with a relationship with Clark [deal with Agustus] and she had her power [Isis]) However it ultimately lead to her own demise... she killed herself... (Wrath we saw Lana's web of lies become known and it burned all her bridges.)

TampaVille

11-09-2007, 07:30 AM

Originally posted by aqgalaxy
(Funny, Lana tried to frame Lex in her murder [Lex not fighting agrees turns himself in]

Lex didn't run. He did fight. He turned himself in because there was a warrant out for his arrest, not because he was admitting guilt. In fairness, he didn't actually kill her lol, so that would have been strange if he'd claimed he had. He did fight though. He fought legally, in court, in accordance with the laws of the American legal system.

aqgalaxy

11-09-2007, 07:33 AM

Originally posted by TampaVille
Lex didn't run. He did fight. He turned himself in because there was a warrant out for his arrest, not because he was admitting guilt. In fairness, he didn't actually kill her lol, so that would have been strange if he'd claimed he had. He did fight though. He fought legally, in court, in accordance with the laws of the American legal system.

Well the point I am trying to make.. him admitting guilty was Like Antony committing suicide instead of fighting to the end... see the comparison?

Honestly he didn't fight... he admitted guilty and was taken to prison DESPITE his attorneys trying to get him out of it...

Hell they tried to save him and leave... he refused thus accepting defeat but instead of arguing with the accusations... he admitted guilty.

chlo-el

11-09-2007, 07:45 AM

Originally posted by aqgalaxy
It's not just Myths but their history as well...

also reminder that...Greeks are tied with both Romans and Egyptians...

Think about it... Lex Luthor is Alexander the Great... He built Alexandria, birth place of the famous Cleopatra who seduced Julius Caesar and had his child... JUST so she can remain queen... When Caesar was assassinated she seduced Mark Antony and backed him in the civil war against Augustus.

Here we see Lex as Alexander, Caesar, and Antony....

Lana is Cleopatra, Lex created the DarkLana or basically forced the darkness... There's was the fake baby plot...

In terms of the Civil war... Late Season 5 and early Season 6... Lana was in full support of Lex... despised Clark...

I think it's funny that in the end of it all... Cleopatra betrayed Antony... manipulated him so he commits suicide and after his death try to make a deal with Agustus to keep her thrown... (Funny, Lana tried to frame Lex in her murder [Lex not fighting agrees turns himself in] and returned with a relationship with Clark [deal with Agustus] and she had her power [Isis]) However it ultimately lead to her own demise... she killed herself... (Wrath we saw Lana's web of lies become known and it burned all her bridges.)

That is really cool. I remeber when I was reading Anthony and Cleopatra for my shakespere class I'm all like Cleopatra is soooo Lana. The way that she was so manipulative.

Great observations about all of the myths too, Amber. I really think you have a point there.

As for who is more like Isis I agree Chloe has the good parts of Isis and Lana has the bad parts of her.

I'm a little confused about the whole myth, I thought that Osiris was her love.

harryandginnyfanatic

11-09-2007, 07:46 AM

Originally posted by aqgalaxy
That wasn't what my cousin was implying... she implied that the Kryptonian word for "Star" (Thus Kara's "Our sun would just be a distant star.") the word for Star is Kal

Isis' association with live, love, and healing actually come because another goddess' aspects were added to Isis' in later versions of the story. That other goddess was was Het-Hor (better known as Hathor) who was, originally, the wife of Ra and mother Horus. Well the association of Isis with those positive happy things is something of a false face (aka Lana) and those traits actually belong to Ra's true wife, Hathor... a goddess of fertility (and funny how the name Chloe actually means fertile). Hathor is also associated with water/tears/the Nile and the sky (the milky way specifically). Hathor was sometimes called "She with Two Faces" because she had another identity (the goddess Sehkmet - Ra's chief protector) before becoming Hathor. (And we always see Chloe protecting Clark...)

So by this logic, Chloe is already Hathor (tears, healing, fertile, love) and simply skipped the whole Sehkmet stage.

Or Hathor could be the meteor infected side of her. The side she always had but didn't become aware of until recently.

I would think it's Chloe's ability to love that enhances her power. That's why I made the connection with the healing and the love part with Isis originally.

aqgalaxy

11-09-2007, 09:47 AM

Originally posted by chlo-el

I'm a little confused about the whole myth, I thought that Osiris was her love.

He is... Ra is the Sun God... has no affiliation with Isis except she brought him to his knees...

chlo-el

11-09-2007, 10:02 AM

Originally posted by aqgalaxy
He is... Ra is the Sun God... has no affiliation with Isis except she brought him to his knees...

Oh, ok, thanks. I was a little confused.

Mischael12

11-09-2007, 11:49 AM

...Isis never brought Ra to his knees...every sunset Ra would descend to the underworld were he would be pursued by another god attempting to swallow him...that god was not Isis...sigh butchery i say.

Odysseus

11-09-2007, 11:55 AM

Originally posted by aqgalaxy
It's not just Myths but their history as well...

also reminder that...Greeks are tied with both Romans and Egyptians...

Think about it... Lex Luthor is Alexander the Great... He built Alexandria, birth place of the famous Cleopatra who seduced Julius Caesar and had his child... JUST so she can remain queen... When Caesar was assassinated she seduced Mark Antony and backed him in the civil war against Augustus.

Here we see Lex as Alexander, Caesar, and Antony....

Lana is Cleopatra, Lex created the DarkLana or basically forced the darkness... There's was the fake baby plot...

In terms of the Civil war... Late Season 5 and early Season 6... Lana was in full support of Lex... despised Clark...

I think it's funny that in the end of it all... Cleopatra betrayed Antony... manipulated him so he commits suicide and after his death try to make a deal with Agustus to keep her thrown... (Funny, Lana tried to frame Lex in her murder [Lex not fighting agrees turns himself in] and returned with a relationship with Clark [deal with Agustus] and she had her power [Isis]) However it ultimately lead to her own demise... she killed herself... (Wrath we saw Lana's web of lies become known and it burned all her bridges.)

Wow I never thought of it like that. Those are some really cool parallels, aqgalaxy. :cool:

Personally I'm really loving the myth comparisons Chloe and Lana were making in that scene (which was by far one of the best scenes this season so far).

Hmm if we're doing Egyptian myth comparisons I think Clark would be Osiris, Lex would be Set, and you could make an argument about who is more like Isis, Chloe or Lana.

aqgalaxy

11-09-2007, 12:14 PM

Originally posted by Mischael12
...Isis never brought Ra to his knees...every sunset Ra would descend to the underworld were he would be pursued by another god attempting to swallow him...that god was not Isis...sigh butchery i say.

http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:6hFJmdhdsMwJ:www.touregypt.net/isis.htm+Isis+and+Ra&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=7&gl=us&client=firefox-a

Segment for Importance:

From a number of passages in the texts of various periods we learn that Isis possessed great skill in the working of magic, and several examples of the manner in which she employed it are well known. Thus when she wished to make Ra reveal to her his greatest and most secret name, she made a venomous reptile out of dust mixed with the spittle of the god, and by uttering over it certain words of power she made it to bite Ra as he passed. When she had succeeded in obtaining from the god his most hidden name, which he only revealed because he was on the point of death, she uttered words which had the effect of driving the poison out of his limbs, and Ra recovered.

Isis Poisoned and almost Killed Ra to learn his secret and gain his power.

Originally posted by Odysseus

Hmm if we're doing Egyptian myth comparisons I think Clark would be Osiris, Lex would be Set, and you could make an argument about who is more like Isis, Chloe or Lana.

No... if we go the Egyptian root.. Lex is Osiris while Clark is Ra

chlo-el

11-09-2007, 12:53 PM

Originally posted by Odysseus
Wow I never thought of it like that. Those are some really cool parallels, aqgalaxy. :cool:

Personally I'm really loving the myth comparisons Chloe and Lana were making in that scene (which was by far one of the best scenes this season so far).

Hmm if we're doing Egyptian myth comparisons I think Clark would be Osiris, Lex would be Set, and you could make an argument about who is more like Isis, Chloe or Lana.

Yeah I say Clark is like Osiris, Lex is like Set and Chloe is like Isis.

I actaully wrote a fan fic that showed the comparisions. Or at least that's what I was trying to do. So when I heard about the Isis foundation and it was Lana I was a bit put off, but this ep brought it back in perspective. Anyways Chloe seems to have Isis' good qualties and Lana seems to have Isis' more manipulative qualties.

Lostfan588

11-09-2007, 01:00 PM

Great poll!

I would say the results reflect the intention of what the writers wanted to get across.

Its pretty much 50/50 here...

Chloe and Lana are like opposite sides of the same coin.

Chloe is text book ISIS in that she is the one of the 2 girls that would go to the ends of the earth for the man she loves, she's got the love, LOYALTY, and ISIS is the goddess of-what was it? bringer of Health? Thats totally like Chloe's power.

Lana is the negative side- the part the textbook left out- goddess of the underworld that brings RA (CLARK) to his knees.

I also thought it was funny when Chloe was telling Lana the kind of relationship she wants for Clark with someone who is truly loyal to him, would go to ends of the earth to protect him and won't bring him down...totally what Chlark have got.

msleggie

11-09-2007, 01:39 PM

Posted by harryandginnyfanatic: I guess you could say that Chloe represents the light side of Isis and Lana the dark.

So true!

lastdaughterofkrypton

11-09-2007, 02:07 PM

I think you should change the title to: who is more like positive Isis? or something like it.
I voted Chloe of course :D

CLanaF23

11-09-2007, 05:08 PM

i dont think lana is so bad..she just wants to get revenge on lex..she hates him..i would too...she just took it out of hand..she just gotta let it go..but she has done nothing wrong to clark...yea she lied but clark noes that now and like clark has never lied to hide something?.soo now everyone is saying lana is soo evil and cant be trusted cause shes tryna take down lex and lionel...two evil men..everyone has wanted someone to try to take either lex or lionel down..now that lana is trying to for good reason now shes all evil? makes no sense people are just tryna say all this about lana cause they dont like clana....everyone always gotta criticize everything she does..well shes not the only one on smallville whos evil or has a dark side...soo back off...chloe really has room to talk about loyalty..

STFanatic

11-09-2007, 05:15 PM

So attempted murder of Lois, hitting a man in the face with a shovel & holding him captive is "not so bad"?
So to sum it up, if you know someone is evil, it is OK to kill them no questions asked as long as there is a good reason.
Thanks.

nyctnafan100

11-12-2007, 01:15 PM

nope! chloe represents the good and lana represents the evil. as i said lana vs clark its coming and not in the lovey dovey sense.

nickyjean_1

11-14-2007, 08:00 AM

CLanaF23, I understand your premise and believe completely that some people need to be ripped apart for what they did (Lex killed her child... to Lana that was a living, heart beating child and Lex just killed it with his schemes and lies.. He deserves more then Lana is giving.) But IMO some people can't handle revenge..

maybe i've watched to many soaps but say on All my Children, Ericka Kane the queen of back lash and revegenge doesn't let her rule her life.. the woman can seriously multi task and 'normally' keep everyone happy while she brings down the person she's after.. But others like say JR chandler, become obsessed and lose sight of everything but what they are trying to destroy.. This 2nd half (which I include Lana in)should either act immedately or not at all.. but either way need to let it go. As soon as the person you are trying to get revenge against has changed your ideals or principles, no amount of revenge is ever going to be enough..

Lana is not the only person that was hurt by the Luthors. Chloe has had her reputation and dreams thrown through the schredder. Her life in danger.. not to mention her fathers, life in danger, or his livelyhood destroyed just as payback.. and Chloe has continued to -within her principles and ideals- to bring down lex. And her working with Lionel after everything he did to her specifically for the sake of the greater good.. Yeah she's a saint in my book..

But as I was saying Lana can't handle that kind of revenge without losing who she is or who she wants to be.. and that's the only real thing that makes it wrong.. not the kidnapping of Lionel.. she wasn't in the 'we trust lionel loop'. Not wanting to destroy Lex, but allowing it to destroy you..

and I agree with those above .. it's depending on who your talking about they both represent Isis

borednow

11-14-2007, 05:11 PM

Originally posted by Mischael12
...Isis never brought Ra to his knees...every sunset Ra would descend to the underworld were he would be pursued by another god attempting to swallow him...that god was not Isis...sigh butchery i say.

Given that Osiris is the god of the Underworld, not Isis, and in Egyptian myth the underworld is a great place the end point is that Chloe/the writers just butchered mythology there.

I don't think either of them are much like Isis. I don't think any of the characters are. Clark isn't Ra, he may get his powers from the sun but even that would just be powered by Ra. Clark isn't pushed around by scarab beetles nor did he create the world by masturbating, yes that is how the world was created in Egyptian mythology. He isn't Osiris either. He wasn't chopped up into little bits that were scattered through out the land only to haven them found then sown back together by his wife. All but one part anyway... So unless Clark is the undead and missing a key part...

So at the end I voted for Shelby.