Lionel; quit calling CK "Son"! [Archive] - KSiteTV Television & Movie Forums

LadyJaneGrey15

11-08-2007, 10:29 PM

I don't know, I think Lionel's "son" always has a tinge of overfamiliarity, as if he's trying to see how much he can get away with. It's kind of hypocritical how nice he is to Clark, the good boy, when he can't even muster civility to the son he royally screwed over with his Machiavellian parenting techniques. Lex turned into the son he always wanted...and now he decides he likes Clark and his corn-fed values better?? WTF??

Xanderman

11-08-2007, 10:33 PM

Since Jor-El or his essence has been in Lionel's body a few times, it sort of makes sense for Lionel to have fatherly feelings towards Clark.

Originally posted by Coyote
Lionel is a master pimp. He's probably everybody's Daddy. :lol:

galatians221

11-08-2007, 10:49 PM

Originally posted by D.M.A.
exactly,its nothin to get 2 upset about.Plus this wasnt the first time he's referred to clark this way :\

Exactly and I'm getting sick of it. Clark has told him in the past to stop calling him that and now they are buddies. I don't like it. There are too many people who know Clark's secret.

MrZeppo

11-08-2007, 10:56 PM

Yeah, but Clark still doesn't trust Lionel with everything. He didn't trust him enough to tell him about Kara. I still think he distrusts him and is waiting to see what he's upto. It's all about keeping your friends close but your enemies closer.

Yeah, I've never forgiven Lionel for the role he had in Jonathan's death. And I'm not too keen on him calling Clark "Son". Lionel doesn't have that right. I think Lionel like to use that over-familiarity for his own personal reasons and gains.

Vergon6

11-08-2007, 10:59 PM

Yeah Lionel has been calling him that since late Season 5. And Clark doesn't trust Lionel completely as others have said, which seems to come out the most at the end of each of the last two seasons.

migo

11-09-2007, 05:41 AM

Yeah, I've never forgiven Lionel for the role he had in Jonathan's death. And I'm not too keen on him calling Clark "Son". Lionel doesn't have that right. I think Lionel like to use that over-familiarity for his own personal reasons and gains.

That was 4 parts Clark's fault and 1 part Jonathan's.

Jonathan took the powers that weakened his heart.

Clark refused to go to the FOS before the sun set losing his powers.

Then he gets himself killed.

Then Jor-El has to resurrect him, in exchange for Lana's life.

Then Clark goes back in time to exchange Lana's life for Jonathan's.

TampaVille

11-09-2007, 05:44 AM

It's a relatively clever play on words. For one, it is relatively common for an older guy to call a younger guy son. Nothing odd about it on the surface. But combined with the Lex/Lionel discussion from last week, it allows for some interesting implications. You don't have to like the implications, haha.

jimmyolsenblues

11-09-2007, 05:46 AM

It makes my skin crawl when Lionel who is an admitted murderer calls clark son.
But I get mad when clark hugs him and allows the friendship.
Just a whopping spidershaped hebbie jebbie moment for me when they hugged in a previous episode.

daughter of the child

11-09-2007, 06:29 AM

I COMPLETELY AGREE WITH THE AUTHOR, U DON;T THREATEN THE BOY'S LIFE, KILL HIS FATHER, FALL IN LOVE WITH HIS MOM, AND TTHHEENN GET TO CALL HIM SON- WTF, LIONEL, STOP IT!

aqgalaxy

11-09-2007, 06:37 AM

Originally posted by galatians221
Last week they hug each other and now once again he calls CK "son". I am not a fan of Lionel so I'm a bit biased but this nonsense started when Martha invited the killer of her husband to Thanksgiving dinner and now we get this "son" nonsense. It really grates on me and rubs me the wrong way.

I call people Bello and Bella, that doesn't mean they are Handsome or Beautiful.

SteveS

11-09-2007, 06:43 AM

good example. Don't worry, ClarkMan will use Jonathan not Lionel as a pattern for his ethical life.

kryptonaidxh

11-09-2007, 06:49 AM

:rolleyes: ;) Lionel didn´t killed Jonathan, he died because of a heart attack, it was written , originally Clark´s earth father dies for a heart disease, and I hope Lionel tells Clark everything that Lana has done behind his back for Clark to break up with that b**ch.:p :D

chantal

11-09-2007, 08:09 AM

Originally posted by MrZeppo
Yeah, but Clark still doesn't trust Lionel with everything. He didn't trust him enough to tell him about Kara. I still think he distrusts him and is waiting to see what he's upto. It's all about keeping your friends close but your enemies closer.

And yet, Clark went straight to Lionel for help with the Lana problem. Sounds like a very trusting, son-like thing to do. He also went to him last week about the lab in Granville.

galatians221

11-09-2007, 11:38 AM

Originally posted by chantal
And yet, Clark went straight to Lionel for help with the Lana problem. Sounds like a very trusting, son-like thing to do. He also went to him last week about the lab in Granville.

Which is absurd. I mean the man basically killed CK's father and then hit on his mother just weeks later. I know he's a vessel for Jor El but I think that's over with. I mean Jor El is at the FOS and he's not omnipresent. He needs to get instruction from his real father. Isn't it interesting that Clark won't let Lionel know that Kara is from Krypton? They have made CK into a confused adolescent who refuses to grow up. Peter Pan can at least fly.

galatians221

11-11-2007, 02:54 PM

Originally posted by kryptonaidxh
:rolleyes: ;) Lionel didn´t killed Jonathan, he died because of a heart attack, it was written , originally Clark´s earth father dies for a heart disease, and I hope Lionel tells Clark everything that Lana has done behind his back for Clark to break up with that b**ch.:p :D

Technically correct but Lionel went there to blackmail or threaten the Kent family. I can't understand why so many fans like the character of Lionel. His hitting on Martha just made my flesh crawl and now he's calling Clark "son". I HATE IT.

Sweetie

11-11-2007, 03:59 PM

Didn't Clark told Lionel"I'm not your son,stop calling me that!"

My answer:Yes & no!Let me explain...because of all the baggage that Lionel had with the Kents it's pretty irriting to hear but,he is Jor-El's reincanation also.

euterpe

11-11-2007, 06:04 PM

Originally posted by galatians221
Peter Pan can at least fly.
That’s great!

I have to fight the nausea every time Lionel calls Clark “son”. And he isn’t doing it simply as an older man speaking to younger man reference. In all of their previous dealings, Lionel NEVER referred to Clark as “son”. That only started after Jor-El used him as a conduit. He is using the term to try and endear himself to Clark because he has decided that Clark is the strong son he’s always wanted and is ready to throw over Lex for Clark just like he was prepared to throw over Lex for Julian. And don’t believe for a second that Lionel is now on the straight and narrow. He will always be the MB; that will never change.

Lionel may have told Lex that he could never fool him with his apparent redemption, but neither can Lionel ever fool Lex. He knows Lionel is still the same old snake he’s always been. It’s Clark that seems a little too dense at times. I can believe Clark doesn’t trust Lionel and just uses him for whatever he needs. After all, he treated Lex the same way…make sure they know you don’t really like them, but use them for all you can get out of them. At least I hope that is what Clark is doing; otherwise he is the dumbest sentient being to ever draw breath.

But it is still galling to see Clark and Martha embracing Lionel (both literally and metaphorically) after all he’s done to the Kent family. Lex’s actions pale in comparison to all of Lionel’s machinations. And if the saying is “Keep your friends close, but your enemies closer.” does that mean Clark still views Lionel as a bigger threat than Lex?

And even if Lionel is using this fatherly term because of his affiliation with Jor-El, why would that really mean much to Clark since he’s never really expressed warm and fuzzy feelings regarding his biological father?

borednow

11-11-2007, 07:29 PM

Originally posted by galatians221
Technically correct but Lionel went there to blackmail or threaten the Kent family. I can't understand why so many fans like the character of Lionel. His hitting on Martha just made my flesh crawl and now he's calling Clark "son". I HATE IT.

Actually he wasn't there to blackmail the Kent family. Johnathan assumed that and started doing aerobic exercises in an already heart stressful situation. He knew better.

I love Lionel. In a story about journeys where you know the end for most of the characters there is a lot of fun in those that can still surprise you. Lionel certainly surprised me. When I first saw Lionel I thought he was just a great villain but that has changed so much. I think his journey to redemption, and I do believe he is on one, has beautifully paralleled his son's fall from grace. Lex is becoming Lionel from season one and Lionel becoming Lex! Lionel isn't perfect his instincts on how to get things done go in the wrong directions but he is trying. That's what really counts. True Hero's don't just save peoples lives they try to save people's souls, or hearts. They forgive sins committed against them and help their fallen opponents, it's what makes them heroes not vigilantes. Clark going to Lionel and trying to continue the work his mother had started in bringing him back from the darkness is a true sign of a hero. It's one of the best plot lines this show has managed to spit out. I hope they don't ruin it.

P.S-I don't care what Lionel calls Clark.

P.P.S. - The Mionel phobia strikes again. Martha placed them as friends and nothing more then that has happened. Get over it people. Lionel loved Martha, Martha wanted to be Lionel's only friend, big fracking deal. Nothing happened, they were/are friends only.

free_emily

11-11-2007, 07:36 PM

Wasn't it explained at some point that Lionel's body has been used by Jor-El as a vessel to communicate with and protect Clark? Didn't MM say that Lionel was a friend who is assisting them? At these times it doesn't seem a big deal for Lionel to be calling Clark "son" because it's just a familiar, friendly term.

What I don't like is how there doesn't seem to be an rhyme or reason behind when Lionel is Jor-El's emissary and when Lionel is just the MB. What sort of internal to the show logic is being employed? For example, if Lionel, as emissary for Jor-El, just wants to protect Clark from Lex, then why does Lionel have to go around baiting Lex? It seems like that actually accomplishes the opposite objective - it antagonizes Lex and makes him more bitter towards Clark because Lex feels Clark is getting something from Lionel that Lex himself never got.

galatians221

11-11-2007, 08:14 PM

Originally posted by free_emily
Wasn't it explained at some point that Lionel's body has been used by Jor-El as a vessel to communicate with and protect Clark? Didn't MM say that Lionel was a friend who is assisting them? At these times it doesn't seem a big deal for Lionel to be calling Clark "son" because it's just a familiar, friendly term.

What I don't like is how there doesn't seem to be an rhyme or reason behind when Lionel is Jor-El's emmesary and when Lionel is just the MB. What sort of internal to the show logic is being employed? For example, if Lionel just wants to protect Clark from Lex, then why does Lionel have to go around baiting Lex? It seems like that actually accomplishes the opposite objective - it antagonizes Lex and makes him more bitter towards Clark because Lex feels Clark is getting something from Lionel that Lex himself never got.

Agreed. I can't like characters who are duplicitous. Lionel is a snake and Clark didn't trust him enough about Kara and actually lied about it. Another screwup; Superman never lies. Oh well, let's not go down that rabbit trail.

Sub Snake

11-12-2007, 12:16 AM

People like Lionel because hes actually interesting. When he comes on screen the scene gets interesting. Wether its with Clark or Lex. You never know his true intentions and how he deals with things but he gets what he wants. dont matter if hes good or bad, hes a will written character. And if you dont like him because hes EVIL then hes done his job.
Booyah.

Angelina2809

11-12-2007, 07:31 AM

I think Clark is a men which Lionel is proud of.
He wish that Lex would be like Clark. He see what a kind of evil Lex is now.
Clark told Lionel once that he don't want him to call him "SON"
But now the things changed between them.
I mean Lionel gave Clark a hug as Lionel returned in this season.
I guess Clark do not care about this anymore.

galatians221

11-12-2007, 08:58 AM

Originally posted by Angelina2809
I think Clark is a men which Lionel is proud of.
He wish that Lex would be like Clark. He see what a kind of evil Lex is now.
Clark told Lionel once that he don't want him to call him "SON"
But now the things changed between them.
I mean Lionel gave Clark a hug as Lionel returned in this season.
I guess Clark do not care about this anymore.

He should!

galatians221

11-12-2007, 11:45 AM

Originally posted by free_emily
Wasn't it explained at some point that Lionel's body has been used by Jor-El as a vessel to communicate with and protect Clark? Didn't MM say that Lionel was a friend who is assisting them? At these times it doesn't seem a big deal for Lionel to be calling Clark "son" because it's just a familiar, friendly term.

What I don't like is how there doesn't seem to be an rhyme or reason behind when Lionel is Jor-El's emissary and when Lionel is just the MB. What sort of internal to the show logic is being employed? For example, if Lionel, as emissary for Jor-El, just wants to protect Clark from Lex, then why does Lionel have to go around baiting Lex? It seems like that actually accomplishes the opposite objective - it antagonizes Lex and makes him more bitter towards Clark because Lex feels Clark is getting something from Lionel that Lex himself never got.

Unless Jor El is omnipresent he can no longer be using Lionel as an emmisary. Jor El's essence is now at the FOS and told Clark to go take care of Kara. He can't be talking directly to Clark and through Lionel at the same time. Lionel is back to being Lionel and the writers are very fuzzy on all of this either through neglect or on purpose.

Saber

11-12-2007, 12:43 PM

I think its Lionel’s dig to Jonathan. Just like Lex wanted everything that Clark had, Lionel also wanted everything that Jonathan had. He got most of it now; his foot is way inside that door & the FOS.
I notice in this show it’s always parallels between Lex & Clark’s lives. Lex has always been obsessed with Clark life, secretly wanting:
1. A father & mother like Jonathon & Martha
2. A home (the small house with the picket fence)
3. Friends
4. His girlfriend (Lana)
5 Hell, I think he even wanted hair like Clark :lol:

Lionel is not so altruistic with his motives and the use of “son” is a dig to everything Clark holds close. Unfortunately, the BDA always has blinders on to everything around him. The wolf is in sheep’s clothing and Clark just herds him in. I just want to smack him upside his head with a chuck of Green-K. But even then, the obvious would go over his head and think he should’ve had a V-8. :rolleyes:

galatians221

11-12-2007, 01:00 PM

Originally posted by Saber
I think its Lionel’s dig to Jonathan. Just like Lex wanted everything that Clark had, Lionel also wanted everything that Jonathan had. He got most of it now; his foot is way inside that door & the FOS.
I notice in this show it’s always parallels between Lex & Clark’s lives. Lex has always been obsessed with Clark life, secretly wanting:
1. A father & mother like Jonathon & Martha
2. A home (the small house with the picket fence)
3. Friends
4. His girlfriend (Lana)
5 Hell, I think he even wanted hair like Clark :lol:

Lionel is not so altruistic with his motives and the use of “son” is a dig to everything Clark holds close. Unfortunately, the BDA always has blinders on to everything around him. The wolf is in sheep’s clothing and Clark just herds him in. I just want to smack him upside his head with a chuck of Green-K. But even then, the obvious would go over his head and think he should’ve had a V-8. :rolleyes:

So in the end, are we to suppose that Lionel is less evil than Lex? Has Lionel; the protector of CK who diverts government investigators in directions away from CK in order to protect him and brings kryptonite to kill Bizzarro all of a sudden an ethical protector of righteousness? If so, Clark still won't tell him that Kara is Zor El's daughter and instead lies to his face to tell him she's from Jonathan's side of the family. They hug, he calls him "son" and Lionel is still calling Martha on the phone. I've always wondered about Lionel having the letters "el" on the end of his name. Maybe Jor El fooled around on Lara when he visited here and Lionel is actually the big brother of Clark. I need to rest.

nyctnafan100

11-12-2007, 01:00 PM

lionel is an awesome actor played by john glover. i've met john in person and is very down to earth and willing to chat. that being said i wanna see what he continues to bring to the series. i have no problem with him calling clark son.

galatians221

11-12-2007, 03:21 PM

Originally posted by nyctnafan100
lionel is an awesome actor played by john glover. i've met john in person and is very down to earth and willing to chat. that being said i wanna see what he continues to bring to the series. i have no problem with him calling clark son.

In my experience in following Superman there are good guys and bad guys. Lionel is a conundrum and Clark doesn't trust him enough to reveal Kara's true identity and yet hugs him and let's him call him "son". Mixed signals that must mean something. I've posted on Theories adn Speculation that Lion El may be from the house of El. Jor El visited the earth long ago and may have sired Lionel. That would make Lion El Clark's older brother and Lex would be CK's nephew. Why else would Jor El have chosen Lion El to be his emissary? He knows that Lion El would not have super abilities but could watch out for Kal El. Something is up.

clana4everfan2

11-12-2007, 07:41 PM

John Glover rocks as an actor. Although, I would say Jonathan Kent who is no longer with them should be the only one calling CK son. Too bad JK character was killed off. :(

galatians221

11-12-2007, 08:46 PM

Originally posted by clana4everfan2
John Glover rocks as an actor. Although, I would say Jonathan Kent who is no longer with them should be the only one calling CK son. Too bad JK character was killed off. :(

Anything to keep Clark from fulfilling his destiny. Now Lionel is his dad along with Jor El and Jonathan.

M0RGAN

11-12-2007, 10:29 PM

Originally posted by galatians221
So in the end, are we to suppose that Lionel is less evil than Lex? Has Lionel; the protector of CK who diverts government investigators in directions away from CK in order to protect him and brings kryptonite to kill Bizzarro all of a sudden an ethical protector of righteousness? If so, Clark still won't tell him that Kara is Zor El's daughter and instead lies to his face to tell him she's from Jonathan's side of the family. They hug, he calls him "son" and Lionel is still calling Martha on the phone. I've always wondered about Lionel having the letters "el" on the end of his name. Maybe Jor El fooled around on Lara when he visited here and Lionel is actually the big brother of Clark. I need to rest.

I think overall that Lionel's main priority is protecting Clark. Wheither the ways in which he does this are morally sound is up to debate.

I'm of the opinion that Lionel recognized the name Kara just by the way he reacted to the name in the previous episode & also by how he asked Clark which side of the family Kara came from. Add to the fact that Lionel came to the rescue of Clark in the lab, saw that Kara was acting negatively to a Kryptonite cocktail & was within range of Kara calling Clark Kal' El.....

Well I'm pretty sure the cat is certainly out of the bag on that topic now.

Ardiem3

11-13-2007, 05:19 AM

Because Clarks the son he wanted and wants since Lex has now embraced the dark side of his heart and his evil now..

red_cape_7

11-13-2007, 02:31 PM

i think it's mostly b/c it's just part of his nature to call clark "son" - at least at first. but now it has more meaning behind it since he is trying to protect clark.

kentfamily

11-13-2007, 07:13 PM

Originally posted by: borednow:

Actually he wasn't there to blackmail the Kent family. Johnathan assumed that and started doing aerobic exercises in an already heart stressful situation. He knew better.

I love Lionel. In a story about journeys where you know the end for most of the characters there is a lot of fun in those that can still surprise you. Lionel certainly surprised me. When I first saw Lionel I thought he was just a great villain but that has changed so much. I think his journey to redemption, and I do believe he is on one, has beautifully paralleled his son's fall from grace. Lex is becoming Lionel from season one and Lionel becoming Lex! Lionel isn't perfect his instincts on how to get things done go in the wrong directions but he is trying. That's what really counts. True Hero's don't just save peoples lives they try to save people's souls, or hearts. They forgive sins committed against them and help their fallen opponents, it's what makes them heroes not vigilantes. Clark going to Lionel and trying to continue the work his mother had started in bringing him back from the darkness is a true sign of a hero. It's one of the best plot lines this show has managed to spit out. I hope they don't ruin it.

P.S-I don't care what Lionel calls Clark.

P.P.S. - The Mionel phobia strikes again. Martha placed them as friends and nothing more then that has happened. Get over it people. Lionel loved Martha, Martha wanted to be Lionel's only friend, big fracking deal. Nothing happened, they were/are friends only.
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Well said and well put.;)

jack1487

11-14-2007, 09:04 PM

Originally posted by Sub Snake
Umm, I know older people who say "son" to other males when theyre speaking. I dont think he means like actual SON.

I use it in the same way when I am talking to any young man, it's just something that us older people do.

No real meaning to it. It's just a nice way to answer or ask a question, noting bad about it. Plus as we get older its easier to say that and not look like a fool when you can't remember what the persons name is.

Take Care,

Jack :rotfl:

M0RGAN

11-14-2007, 10:38 PM

Originally posted by borednow
P.P.S. - The Mionel phobia strikes again. Martha placed them as friends and nothing more then that has happened. Get over it people. Lionel loved Martha, Martha wanted to be Lionel's only friend, big fracking deal. Nothing happened, they were/are friends only.
Mionel is my ship of choice for Smallville actually. Lionel more than proved that he loved Martha; & she did say that there was "something between them" in Rage, but that she wasn't ready to find out what that something was. She wanted to just stay friends. I agree that nothing significant happened, but that doesn't stop the potential development of their relationship in the future. :D