Most disgraceful episode & biggest mockery to Clark

[xrayvision]

This episode is truly making me disgusted. Between Clark sleeping with an evil intentioned b*tch and Lana having Clark's powers & abusing them it's a complete mockery to Clark. And the way Lana already knows how to use those abilities when she has never had them and when it took Clark years to learn them is even more disgraceful. And the episode isn't even done yet.

[lilkoolmaria]

Word.

I don't even know what to say.

[Kal-ed]

Double word

I support the writers stryke but with episodes like this I think Smallville writers are getting payed more than what they´r worth.

[thehenry89]

triple word, and i've had at least two beers since it started.

[clanafanforever]

you guys need to chill

[superman79]

Worst ep ever...Smallville deserves to be canceled ASAP! Drinking, premarital sex again..with a clone!!!!! And Lana getting the powers through the old trick of lightning. Talk about failing to come up with original ideas and a good storyline.

[thehenry89]

I don't care about the pre-marital sex, and the drinking--that's cool. but what i can't stand is the systematic spineectomy occuring between clark and lana.

[Kal-ed]

They are drinking??

[The Ship!]

lololol......finally you guys are catching on things I have been saying for years about the writers.

Jokes on you! The writers are getting paid while they can ahahahah!

[HowardFilms]

Yeah...let's cancel all the shows with sex and drinking!


....hey, why is my TV stuck on the Weather Channel...? lol

[SuperJedi]

Black Liquid = Milton Fine ???

[Mello Penelo]

This episode sucks. It's not even over and I want to shove my finger down my throat. Clark just lets it go that Lana almost killed Lex and insulted him by saying, "All you do is sit on some farm." He just lets it go. He's so whipped. :mad:

[HalJordan4184]

I agree, which is why I would have rathered they cancelled SMallville at the end of the second season, and it least not tainted so many people's idea of what Clark Kent is.

[thehenry89]

he's not whipped, he's had a partial lobotomy. it happend around season two.

[superspider02]

i thought the episode was alright. Yea i sucked they didnt have any scenes of clark teaching lana how to use the powers.

[PHOENIXZERO]

Come on, evil ***** Lana giving Lois a round house kick was hilarious!

[HouseOfEl]

Geez you guys are brutal lol. It was a bad episode but you gotta expect one or two of these a season. I thought the Black Liquid/Brainiac revelation was the only thing that saved it. And the fact that Grant Gabriel is working with Lex Luthor.

[MidgardDragon]

Anti-word. It wasn't my favorite episode of all time but Clark wasn't mocked in it and it helped reveal the truth about Lana to him.

[thehenry89]

the brainiac thing saved it for me partially.

[Mello Penelo]

But he refuses to face the truth presented to him. To him, Lana is still the pink princess he voyeured through his telescope.

[xrayvision]

What's such a shame is how this season has been great until this disaster of an episode. Even Fierce, one of the weaker episodes was leaps and bounds better than this.

I was hoping that the Clark-Lex scenes would have been better, but once again they looked like a couple of teens fighting over some girl not worth giving the time of day to.

The only redeeming quality was the Chloe vs. Lana at the end and the hinted return of Brainiac.

[myankskent]

Originally posted by Mello Penelo
But he refuses to face the truth presented to him. To him, Lana is still the pink princess he voyeured through his telescope.

Not anymore. That last scene changed that, IMO.

[thehenry89]

I really wanted chloe to be a bit more confrontational with lana. I mean afterall her and clark are real best friends--were as lana and chloe have never really sold me on the friendship thing.

[HalJordan4184]

Except, even in that last scene, you could tell he was desperately trying to come up with some way to try to exonerate Lana is his own mind. Chloe and Lana both even called him on it.

[Mello Penelo]

Who's to say he accepts her rationale? And if he said something about it, I quit paying attention when Clark and Lex were yelling at each other at the end of the episode.

[paolinki25]

After watching this episode, I gotta say it was kinda a disappointment. The plot was ridiculous, and the only highlight were the Clex conversations. Although it seems Clark is opening his eyes and starting to see the real Lana, it bugs the hell out of me how he excuses everything she does, and I'm pretty sure everything will be fogiven and forgotten in the end.

[xrayvision]

Originally posted by MidgardDragon
Anti-word. It wasn't my favorite episode of all time but Clark wasn't mocked in it and it helped reveal the truth about Lana to him.

Yeah, but to me that was all negated when he blamed himself for it. Lana had this nasty streak in her since before Clark ever hooked up with her.

And I do think Clark was mocked by that one line by Lana about him staying on the farm not doing anything when he had all those powers. That was the straw that broke the camel's back. The person who would have been dead 50 times over had it not been for him staying on the farm daring to bring that up. If it was Jor-El or Lionel, I would understand. But not her.

[citizenlen]

So did you all have the same "moral" values when Lois and Clark was about to have sex in Crimson or Lois's college drinking days. How about the mention of Chloe losing her virginity to Jimmy, some random guy during her summer intern? What about Clark marrying Alicia despite the fact he was on RedK they were showing some hotness there. How about Lois's affair with Oliver?

Please the booze and sex have been going on since S1. Just because those characters aren't shown having sex, it doesn't mean they're not doing it. It just so happens that the main 3 gets more airtime. I don't recall anyone puking and calling out Crimson for immorality. I guess it's because its Lois and Alicia, but when it comes to Lana there's always the double standard. :rolleyes:

ETA: I thought everyone would be happy that someone finally called out Clark hiding out in the farm and refusing to accept his destiny. At least Lana had the balls to tell him what he cannot do which is to put Lex in his place, behind bars.

[thehenry89]

Originally posted by citizenlen
So did you all have the same "moral" values when Lois and Clark was about to have sex in Crimson or Lois's college drinking days. How about the mention of Chloe losing her virginity to Jimmy, some random guy during her summer intern? What about Clark marrying Alicia despite the fact he was on RedK they were showing some hotness there. How about Lois's affair with Oliver?

Please the booze and sex have been going on since S1. Just because those characters aren't shown having sex, it doesn't mean they're not doing it. It just so happens that the main 3 gets more airtime. I don't recall anyone puking and calling out Crimson for immorality. I guess it's because its Lois and Alicia, but when it comes to Lana there's always the double standard. :rolleyes:

don't even...Lois and chloe both get crap for the same thing. all the girls on SV are subjected to the riddiculus double standard of shippers.

[Mello Penelo]

Oh good grief citizenlen. How can you compare underage drinking and premarital sex to attempted murder? This isn't some half-assed attempt at a Lana-attacking double standard.

The girl tried to murder Lex.

And how can Lois and Oliver be an affair? Neither one of them were married. Chloe and Jimmy had sex, not stole a car. Who are you, Mother Theresa?

[thehenry89]

Originally posted by citizenlen


ETA: I thought everyone would be happy that someone finally called out Clark hiding out in the farm and refusing to accept his destiny. At least Lana had the balls to tell him what he cannot do which is to put Lex in his place, behind bars.

She ought to have balls, she took Clarks six years ago and never gave em back.

[Randy G.]

I thought for sure this episode would please imaginative people. Listen to all of the negativity, going on in here.
I'm truly amazed! Lots of LOL moments, witty comments & threats, and BRAINIAC!!!!
What would it actually take in an episode, to please you guys? Is it even possible? I'm not saying that anyone is wrong, I'm just honestly beginning to wonder. :eek:

[Deana]

I cheated and watched this episode and it just proved to me why I can't like Smallville. I must admit I have seen bits and pieces of previous episodes this season, because my bro still watches it.

This show excels at making a mockery out of Clark. Every Kryptonian that shows up makes Clark look like a joke and Lana has the powers for a freaking second and utilizes them in battle better than him.

[redeem147]

Clark slept with her before he started to see who she was. Besides, poor boy's pretty frustrated, see Larry Niven ;)

I think it's a necessary step in this Clark becoming the man he needs to be, and getting out of the barn.

Though that man thing's a bit overdue. Tom is looking his age (not that I'm complaining).

[paolinki25]

I'm not disgusted because Clark had sex. I'm not some kind of prude that goes on and on about "saving yourself" for marriage or something like that. The problem with this episode is not the sex (which came out looking a joke, more than a romantic or intimate moment), the problem is that Clark keeps excusing Lana's behavior, and unless I see something changing in this dynamic during the upcoming episodes, I don't see the point in having an episode like this, when Lana will be AGAIN excused for her poor choices and all the blame will be on Clark or Lex.

[citizenlen]

Drinking, premarital sex again..with a clone!


I am not talking about Lana trying to murder Lex. I'm talking about the crap Lana gets for having sex with Clark.

[Mello Penelo]

The only reason I'm pissed about the sex is CLARK DOES NOT HAVE SUPER-POWERED SEX!

He has sex like a regular person. There never should have been sex-quakes. :mad:

[Randy G.]

Sex quakes! :lol:

[kp1984]

I don't remember it saying Jimmy and Chole having sex. Did I miss something. Hey Oliver said that same thing. Remember last year when Oilver complain to Clark that he needed to get off his ass?

[paolinki25]

:lol: The sex quakes were pretty ridiculous. If that was supposed to be some kind of romantic, sexy moment between the two, it just came off looking like one of those "supposed to be funny" moments in teenage movies.

[ClarksGal]

Originally posted by Randy G.
I thought for sure this episode would please imaginative people. Listen to all of the negativity, going on in here.
I'm truly amazed! Lots of LOL moments, witty comments & threats, and BRAINIAC!!!!
What would it actually take in an episode, to please you guys? Is it even possible? I'm not saying that anyone is wrong, I'm just honestly beginning to wonder. :eek:

I have never once heard of everyone enjoying an episode. Not once. Never. Now I've heard overwhelming nearly unanimous hatred for an episode, but never unanimous love. It's mythical - like the unicorn!

[HalJordan4184]

One reaosn Clana sex get's so much grief, is because of how bad the relationship is, and how some people have viewed Clark, due to previous interactions with the character, through movies, TV shows, comics, etc. Most people here aren't down on any of the characters doing what a lot of people their age do.

[curiosity]

Originally posted by Deana
I cheated and watched this episode and it just proved to me why I can't like Smallville. I must admit I have seen bits and pieces of previous episodes this season, because my bro still watches it.

This show excels at making a mockery out of Clark. Every Kryptonian that shows up makes Clark look like a joke and Lana has the powers for a freaking second and utilizes them in battle better than him.

The poll says it's the favorite of the 7th epidoses of Smallville.

[Mello Penelo]

Chloe and Jimmy had sex between seasons 3 and 4. During their internships. They even joked about it when they were making out in the car.

[superman79]

Originally posted by citizenlen
So did you all have the same "moral" values when Lois and Clark was about to have sex in Crimson or Lois's college drinking days. How about the mention of Chloe losing her virginity to Jimmy, some random guy during her summer intern? What about Clark marrying Alicia despite the fact he was on RedK they were showing some hotness there. How about Lois's affair with Oliver?

Please the booze and sex have been going on since S1. Just because those characters aren't shown having sex, it doesn't mean they're not doing it. It just so happens that the main 3 gets more airtime. I don't recall anyone puking and calling out Crimson for immorality. I guess it's because its Lois and Alicia, but when it comes to Lana there's always the double standard. :rolleyes:

ETA: I thought everyone would be happy that someone finally called out Clark hiding out in the farm and refusing to accept his destiny. At least Lana had the balls to tell him what he cannot do which is to put Lex in his place, behind bars.






Yeah the problem with Smallville is that they have tried to negate Superman's moral center. He would never do these things, the same can't be said for the other characters. This is what makes Supes as amazing of a character and role model!

[redeem147]

The earth moved.

[curiosity]

Originally posted by paolinki25
:lol: The sex quakes were pretty ridiculous. If that was supposed to be some kind of romantic, sexy moment between the two, it just came off looking like one of those "supposed to be funny" moments in teenage movies.

I thought it was one of the funniest things I'd ever seen. I loved it, and I loved this episode, and I didn't think I would but it was great. And next week looks pretty good too. I also loved that Lois was actually in it.

[NoSupeForYou]

The Clark in Smallville has never been the moral character that Superman is so there's no point in complaining about it this late in the game. I just don't get why they bothered to have all that crap about Jonathan teaching him right from wrong when he obviously didn't.

[thehenry89]

Clark was consitantly a moral guy until the whole crime spree in Metropolis.

[Kriminal]

Originally posted by superman79
Worst ep ever...Smallville deserves to be canceled ASAP! Drinking, premarital sex again..with a clone!!!!! And Lana getting the powers through the old trick of lightning. Talk about failing to come up with original ideas and a good storyline.

clone eh? :lol:

[xrayvision]

Originally posted by Randy G.
I thought for sure this episode would please imaginative people. Listen to all of the negativity, going on in here.
I'm truly amazed! Lots of LOL moments, witty comments & threats, and BRAINIAC!!!!
What would it actually take in an episode, to please you guys? Is it even possible? I'm not saying that anyone is wrong, I'm just honestly beginning to wonder. :eek:

I'm pleased when the main character and the focus of the show isn't made to look like crap. And there were aspects of this episode that did that. I was pleased with the 6 previous episodes, not this one. This was a disgrace. Clark blaming himself was the icing on the cake. I can't believe how stupid he is.

[galatians221]

Originally posted by superman79
Worst ep ever...Smallville deserves to be canceled ASAP! Drinking, premarital sex again..with a clone!!!!! And Lana getting the powers through the old trick of lightning. Talk about failing to come up with original ideas and a good storyline.

I'll agree to second worst. The one where the girl had to eat Pete to stay alive was the worst and I can't forget the one where Lois, Lana and Chloe were witches but this one did more harm to the character of Clark, I'll agree with that. Gratuitous sex and violence never adds to any show or movie imho.

[Coyote]

This was a really fun ep! I liked it a lot. Action, comedy, earthtremor sex, intense acting performances, the return of Brainiac. There was a lot of entertainment value this week.

[lexthesmooth]

The only part of this episode that was of any value was when Brainiac was brought back in. I did like the fact that Lana told Clark that he was wasting his abilities. He is only focused on himself by only careing about those closest to him. This was a reminder for him to go help the world. Remember Oliver said something like this last season. Once Green Arrow is brought back I believe things will get better. I also think that supergirl will side with Lex. However if things do not pick up soon there may not be any future seasons. As for Clark and Lana, I believe his view of her walking on air is over. He did not tell her he loved her at the end when she asked.

[Randy G.]

Originally posted by Coyote
This was a really fun ep! I liked it a lot. Action, comedy, earthtremor sex, intense acting performances, the return of Brainiac. There was a lot of entertainment value this week.

Thank you Coyote, I was beginning to wonder if I was the only one who had a good time watching this. :D

I thought maybe these guys were watching a different episode than me. :lol:

[ClarksGal]

Originally posted by xrayvision
I'm pleased when the main character and the focus of the show isn't made to look like crap. And there were aspects of this episode that did that. I was pleased with the 6 previous episodes, not this one. This was a disgrace. Clark blaming himself was the icing on the cake. I can't believe how stupid he is.

You really think Clark looked that bad in this episode? How come? Is it because of the sex? I thought he seemed to stand his ground pretty well with Lana, and he definitely didn't seem like everything was fine with him in the end of the episode. Even when Lana said they could get past it, he basically said he didn't know that they could. That's a pretty big leap for him, at least historically speaking.

[Alexander III]

Lana is a genius, a quick learner, and a sex addict.

[galatians221]

Originally posted by Randy G.
I thought for sure this episode would please imaginative people. Listen to all of the negativity, going on in here.
I'm truly amazed! Lots of LOL moments, witty comments & threats, and BRAINIAC!!!!
What would it actually take in an episode, to please you guys? Is it even possible? I'm not saying that anyone is wrong, I'm just honestly beginning to wonder. :eek:

Brainiac was disposed of and now it's more of the same old same old. Anything to keep Clark from fulfilling his destiny. All of this could be done by Superman but they are committed to having a Superhero who simply runs fast. It's past time and it's getting silly. They just can't keep harming the character of CK. They need to end the series if Clark is just going to hang around the barn and help one of the six characters. He spends more time in Smallville Hospital than he does at the FOS and he's supposed to be in training. It's frustrating.

[CLanaF23]

[Mod Edit] Read rules #10 and 14.

[fxrsteve]

Originally posted by galatians221
Brainiac was disposed of and now it's more of the same old same old. Anything to keep Clark from fulfilling his destiny. All of this could be done by Superman but they are committed to having a Superhero who simply runs fast. It's past time and it's getting silly. They just can't keep harming the character of CK. They need to end the series if Clark is just going to hang around the barn and help one of the six characters. He spends more time in Smallville Hospital than he does at the FOS and he's supposed to be in training. It's frustrating.
I agree and I will add that a nemesis hell-bent on saving humanity isn't that cool either

[ClarkyBoy14]

Originally posted by Randy G.
I thought for sure this episode would please imaginative people. Listen to all of the negativity, going on in here.
I'm truly amazed! Lots of LOL moments, witty comments & threats, and BRAINIAC!!!!
What would it actually take in an episode, to please you guys? Is it even possible? I'm not saying that anyone is wrong, I'm just honestly beginning to wonder. :eek: This gets a word, not the OP's post.

[SVilleGal03]

Originally posted by thehenry89
I don't care about the pre-marital sex, and the drinking--that's cool. but what i can't stand is the systematic spineectomy occuring between clark and lana.

Um...last I checked, the legal drinking age in Kansas was still 21. And last I checked, Clark and Lana are both...twenty. Underage.

If it were sparkling cider, then I wouldn't be complaining. But Lana specifically mentioned "champagne and truffles."

Tragic, really. Smallville used to be a good family show. But everything went downhill after the fourth season, and even further after they killed Jonathan off.

[redraven]

Originally posted by xrayvision
This episode is truly making me disgusted. Between Clark sleeping with an evil intentioned b*tch and Lana having Clark's powers & abusing them it's a complete mockery to Clark. And the way Lana already knows how to use those abilities when she has never had them and when it took Clark years to learn them is even more disgraceful. And the episode isn't even done yet.

I disagree. This episode wasn't a mockery to Clark for me at all, and Lana actually has good intentions, but if you don't like Lana it every little thing will be twisted and misconstrued so that she'll look evil in your eyes. And pretty much every character that has gotten Clark's powers have been able to easily use them. (Eric Summers for example.)

Oh, and by the way, I thought Clark and Lana were both 21? That would make sense since they were 18 in season 4...

[NoSupeForYou]

The drinking age at 21 has always been a joke anyway. If you can be drafted into the army you should be able to drink.

[superman79]

The writer's have destroyed Lana forever. Kristen should be ashamed to portray the character. I will admit, only true fans of the superman mythos would have issues with this ep. If your tastes are for liberalizing the moral compass of Supes or just like Smallville as a stand alone entity then I could see where it might be a good ep. But for me....disaster.

[thehenry89]

Originally posted by SVilleGal03
Um...last I checked, the legal drinking age in Kansas was still 21. And last I checked, Clark and Lana are both...twenty. Underage.

If it were sparkling cider, then I wouldn't be complaining. But Lana specifically mentioned "champagne and truffles."

Tragic, really. Smallville used to be a good family show. But everything went downhill after the fourth season, and even further after they killed Jonathan off.

technically Clark can't get drunk and technically pre marital-sex is not against the law. It's riddiculus to think that drinking champagne and eating truffles is corrupting our youth:rolleyes: maybe if they were having a keggar of something i'd agree.

Anyway this thread isn't about drinking and sex. It's about Clark excusing Lana's illegal behaviour, and lana master abilities it took Clark 6 years to learn.

[NoSupeForYou]

Clark's moral compass doesn't work and his needle only points one way.

[Mello Penelo]

Originally posted by thehenry89
Clark was consitantly a moral guy until the whole crime spree in Metropolis.

You mean when the writing went bad. :\

[Randy G.]

Originally posted by NoSupeForYou
Clark's moral compass doesn't work and his needle only points one way.

It was pointing North in this episode. :eek: :rotfl:

[xrayvision]

Originally posted by redraven
I disagree. This episode wasn't a mockery to Clark for me at all, and Lana actually has good intentions, but if you don't like Lana it every little thing will be twisted and misconstrued so that she'll look evil in your eyes. And pretty much every character that has gotten Clark's powers have been able to easily use them. (Eric Summers for example.)

Oh, and by the way, I thought Clark and Lana were both 21? That would make sense since they were 18 in season 4...

I gave Lana the benefit of the doubt for a verrrrrry long time.

But if you don't see her actions as evil, especially in this episode, then I don't know what else to say.

Lana sending Lois to the hospital was a criminal act and not one a good person would do. Neither was deciding what's right for everyone and trying to kill Lex. Those are the actions of a dictator. Lana's mind wasn't altered in this episode either. She was completely in control of her actions. She had powers and abused them.

Clark blaming himself for this is ridiculous and a disgrace. Lana getting those powers and complaining how Clark stayed on the farm was a mockery to Clark saving her ass all those times. So was Lana learning how to use all those powers in a matter of seconds. At least with Eric Summers he only used the basic powers like superspeed & superstrength in both episodes he was in. Clark having sex with Lana in season 5 was OK, but now that she is corrupt and doing all kinds of twisted things to Lionel and involved in shady deals, I found it disgusting to have a sex scene between her & Clark (even if they showed none of it).

[amberdawn]

Horrible episode. Just horrible.

[paolinki25]

Clark's morals have been tainted A LOT on this show. From Clark unintencionally killing people to Clark actually thinking of running away with a supposedely pregnant woman on her wedding day to her baby's father. Now, Clark being fine and dandy with a woman who has stolen, kidnapped and tortured people. I don't understand where are they going to draw the line here.

[lilkoolmaria]

Originally posted by xrayvision
I gave Lana the benefit of the doubt for a verrrrrry long time.

But if you don't see her actions as evil, especially in this episode, then I don't know what else to say.

Lana sending Lois to the hospital was a criminal act and not one a good person would do. Neither was deciding what's right for everyone and trying to kill Lex. Those are the actions of a dictator. Lana's mind wasn't altered in this episode either. She was completely in control of her actions. She had powers and abused them.

Clark blaming himself for this is ridiculous and a disgrace. Lana getting those powers and complaining how Clark stayed on the farm was a mockery to Clark saving her ass all those times. So was Lana learning how to use all those powers in a matter of seconds. At least with Eric Summers he only used the basic powers like superspeed & superstrength in both episodes he was in. Clark having sex with Lana in season 5 was OK, but now that she is corrupt and doing all kinds of twisted things to Lionel and involved in shady deals, I found it disgusting to have a sex scene between her & Clark (even if they showed none of it).

I couldn't agree more.

[redraven]

Originally posted by xrayvision
I gave Lana the benefit of the doubt for a verrrrrry long time.

But if you don't see her actions as evil, especially in this episode, then I don't know what else to say.

Lana sending Lois to the hospital was a criminal act and not one a good person would do. Neither was deciding what's right for everyone and trying to kill Lex. Those are the actions of a dictator. Lana's mind wasn't altered in this episode either. She was completely in control of her actions. She had powers and abused them.

Clark blaming himself for this is ridiculous and a disgrace. Lana getting those powers and complaining how Clark stayed on the farm was a mockery to Clark saving her ass all those times. So was Lana learning how to use all those powers in a matter of seconds. At least with Eric Summers he only used the basic powers like superspeed & superstrength in both episodes he was in. Clark having sex with Lana in season 5 was OK, but now that she is corrupt and doing all kinds of twisted things to Lionel and involved in shady deals, I found it disgusting to have a sex scene between her & Clark (even if they showed none of it).

I realize her actions are evil, but I do think she has good intentions behind them (I also realize that although some of her acts were solely for retribution, she was doing it for the good of her and Clark, too). And I think Clark blamed himself partially because Lex got to him again during their conversating towards the end of the episode.

[NoSupeForYou]

As the expression goes, "the road to hell is paved with good intentions."

I'm really not surprised with the way they present Clark. In this modern day pc world it's wrong to judge people and Superman is a character who doesn't fit in with it so he has to be destroyed. Saw it coming when in Superman Returns they said "truth, justice and all that stuff," instead of "truth, justice, and the American way."

[HalJordan4184]

Lana was not acting for the good of her and Clark. That was her justification for her actions, not the actual reason for doing them. As Lionel pointed out, she's more like Lex than any of them realize, and she's in this because it's simply what she wants to do. She's trying to convince herself her actions are altruistic, but in reality, it's pure revenge.

[NoSupeForYou]

Clark needs a visit from Aunt May. What she said to Peter in Spider-man 2 is something CK needs to hear.

[fxrsteve]

Originally posted by NoSupeForYou
Clark needs a visit from Aunt May. What she said to Peter in Spider-man 2 is something CK needs to hear.
CK could learn alot from Spiderman

[Mello Penelo]

Originally posted by NoSupeForYou
Clark needs a visit from Aunt May. What she said to Peter in Spider-man 2 is something CK needs to hear.

"You're not Superman, you know?"

[xrayvision]

Originally posted by redraven
I realize her actions are evil, but I do think she has good intentions behind them (I also realize that although some of her acts were solely for retribution, she was doing it for the good of her and Clark, too). And I think Clark blamed himself partially because Lex got to him again during their conversating towards the end of the episode.

There are 2 people to blame: Lex and Lana herself. Lex really did mess her up. But what the heck is up with her liplock with him if she hates him so much and loves Clark?

Lana as much as she complained about being abandoned had people who loved her (Nell, especially). She could have moved with Nell but didn't. Obviously they weren't going to write Lana off the show that early. But there were other things as well. There were times she used Lex to get what she wanted and depended on him for a lot. There was a dark side that got bigger in season 4, and much bigger at the end of season 5 and especially in seasons 6 & now 7. Throughout season 5 she went behind Clark's back to investigate the ship with Lex, the person she knew was an enemy to the one she loved.

Autumn wrote a good thread about Lana's darkside and the signs throughout several seasons:

http://www.kryptonsite.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=56867

Even though she has "good intentions" doing evil things like that and continuing to do them is making her more and more like Lex until she will become just as bad as him. Lionel warned her and she didn't listen.

I wanted the Lana character redeemed, not destroyed, which is what they've done to her. Even if Clark and her are on speaking terms again when the show's over, I will not buy it. Them becoming good friends again (like they were in season 1) at the end of this season would be nothing more than a lightswitch.

Clark must call her out for what she is. Already with the strike at hand, we don't know if there will another season (if the CW network does not survive, which is very possible).

[Eeyore840]

Originally posted by paolinki25
...Although it seems Clark is opening his eyes and starting to see the real Lana, it bugs the hell out of me how he excuses everything she does, and I'm pretty sure everything will be fogiven and forgotten in the end.

Exactly! Everyone is so psyched over season 7, but do you honestly expect this season to be any different? Sure, there is more action and some neat guest stars, but how has the Clark/Lana/Lex triangle changed? We think we see Clark's eyes opening, and I really, really hope they are, but this IS Lanaville, after all. :rolleyes: Somehow I don't have much hope that things will be different in a good way.

[NoSupeForYou]

Now that Clana had superspeed I can finally say this about Clark.

Geeze, I've never seen anyone so whipped, so fast.

[cma5ft11]

Originally posted by xrayvision
I gave Lana the benefit of the doubt for a verrrrrry long time.

But if you don't see her actions as evil, especially in this episode, then I don't know what else to say.

Lana sending Lois to the hospital was a criminal act and not one a good person would do. Neither was deciding what's right for everyone and trying to kill Lex. Those are the actions of a dictator. Lana's mind wasn't altered in this episode either. She was completely in control of her actions. She had powers and abused them.

Clark blaming himself for this is ridiculous and a disgrace. Lana getting those powers and complaining how Clark stayed on the farm was a mockery to Clark saving her ass all those times. So was Lana learning how to use all those powers in a matter of seconds. At least with Eric Summers he only used the basic powers like superspeed & superstrength in both episodes he was in. Clark having sex with Lana in season 5 was OK, but now that she is corrupt and doing all kinds of twisted things to Lionel and involved in shady deals, I found it disgusting to have a sex scene between her & Clark (even if they showed none of it).

Word.
I'm not totally sure if its the worst episode ever, but I had force myself not to change the channel after the supersex.

[xrayvision]

It's not the worst ever, but the worst of the season.

[paolinki25]

I don't know. I believe everytime a Lana centric episode is written, Clark's character dies a little. If this revelation about Lana being dark and twisted is not taken anywhere, I don't see the point for episodes like these. I just simply don't.

[ClarksGal]

I totally agree with everyone who says that Lana is one messed up chick. I just don't see how that makes Clark look bad. He didn't know what she was up to, and when he found out he was incredibly disappointed in her. Will he give her another chance? Of course. And quite frankly, if he just dropped her like a hot potato after six years of idolizing her, I wouldn't believe he'd get over her. The question is, will Lana try to turn her life around now that she's outed? Or will she continue on this path she's started down?

[Eeyore840]

Originally posted by xrayvision
It's not the worst ever, but the worst of the season.

For me, Fierce was the worst, followed by Action, but this certainly ranks up there, too.

[Coyote]

What's bad about mockery of Clark? Clark sucks, so Clark mockery is fun!

[NoSupeForYou]

Seriously though, someone telling him he's being an idiot every episode is getting really old.

Here's a question. How come the first time we see someone talking to Martha it's Lionel?

[BadToad]

I gave Lana the benefit of the doubt for a verrrrrry long time.

But if you don't see her actions as evil, especially in this episode, then I don't know what else to say.

Lana sending Lois to the hospital was a criminal act and not one a good person would do. Neither was deciding what's right for everyone and trying to kill Lex. Those are the actions of a dictator. Lana's mind wasn't altered in this episode either. She was completely in control of her actions. She had powers and abused them.

Clark blaming himself for this is ridiculous and a disgrace. Lana getting those powers and complaining how Clark stayed on the farm was a mockery to Clark saving her ass all those times. So was Lana learning how to use all those powers in a matter of seconds. At least with Eric Summers he only used the basic powers like superspeed & superstrength in both episodes he was in. Clark having sex with Lana in season 5 was OK, but now that she is corrupt and doing all kinds of twisted things to Lionel and involved in shady deals, I found it disgusting to have a sex scene between her & Clark (even if they showed none of it).

Just had to Word! that again X-Ray

For me, I don't really have an issue with the drinking or the sex. Though I've said all along that Lex and Clark sharing a sex partner is rather squickky. But really, I can get over that.

But in this episode, I thought Lana was absolutely venomous. And if that was just directed at Lex, I could understand it. But it wasn't. What the heck was up with her assaulting Lois, and then looking proud of herself for doing it? Thats just twisted. And then her comments to Clark, not to mention the fact that she attacked him? What the heck? If Lana is supposedly in love with Clark, then why does she seem to have no respect for him whatsoever? If she doesn't like the way he lives his life, and uses his powers, then she can just move her evil freeloading butt out of his house then, can't she? Does she love him? In this episode, not that I could tell.

And honestly, I get Clark not being hostile with her, and I understand him trying to find a reason for her behavior. I really do. But to continue to be so blind about a woman that seems to have no respect for you? It just makes Clark appear masochistic? Honestly, at this point in his life, he has much bigger fish to fry that running after Lana and trying to clean up her messes. And in the 7th year of this show, I'm not sure how anyone doesn't see that.

[Thil_EL]

Originally posted by xrayvision
This episode is truly making me disgusted. Between Clark sleeping with an evil intentioned b*tch and Lana having Clark's powers & abusing them it's a complete mockery to Clark. And the way Lana already knows how to use those abilities when she has never had them and when it took Clark years to learn them is even more disgraceful. And the episode isn't even done yet.
AMEN!

[Eeyore840]

Originally posted by BadToad
...If she doesn't like the way he lives his life, and uses his powers, then she can just move her evil freeloading butt out of his house then, can't she?


...But to continue to be so blind about a woman that seems to have no respect for you?...Honestly, at this point in his life, he has much bigger fish to fry than running after Lana and trying to clean up her messes. And in the 7th year of this show, I'm not sure how anyone doesn't see that.



Well said! I couldn't agree more.

Obviously the writers aren't as smart as their audience ;)

[NoSupeForYou]

Some Fortress of Solitude. If I see one more ending with a person in that stupid loft I'm going to lose my mind.

Lana has retarded Clark's growth so much over the last few seasons that I can't see how this version becomes Superman. He's becoming such a pathetic man thanks to her.

[insp henderson]

Originally posted by xrayvision
I gave Lana the benefit of the doubt for a verrrrrry long time.

But if you don't see her actions as evil, especially in this episode, then I don't know what else to say.

Lana sending Lois to the hospital was a criminal act and not one a good person would do. Neither was deciding what's right for everyone and trying to kill Lex. Those are the actions of a dictator. Lana's mind wasn't altered in this episode either. She was completely in control of her actions. She had powers and abused them.

Clark blaming himself for this is ridiculous and a disgrace. Lana getting those powers and complaining how Clark stayed on the farm was a mockery to Clark saving her ass all those times. So was Lana learning how to use all those powers in a matter of seconds. At least with Eric Summers he only used the basic powers like superspeed & superstrength in both episodes he was in. Clark having sex with Lana in season 5 was OK, but now that she is corrupt and doing all kinds of twisted things to Lionel and involved in shady deals, I found it disgusting to have a sex scene between her & Clark (even if they showed none of it).



Originally posted by redraven
I realize her actions are evil, but I do think she has good intentions behind them (I also realize that although some of her acts were solely for retribution, she was doing it for the good of her and Clark, too). And I think Clark blamed himself partially because Lex got to him again during their conversating towards the end of the episode.


Agree and she was under the influence tonight ie not responsible for her actions.

As to some others here;

IF CLARK LEAVES THE FARM IT IS NO LONGER SMALLVILLE!

That's a given, when he leaves it will be SUPERMAN in metropolis with some cast members changing. I would really like to see that happen.

[jazel]

haven't seen the epi yet, have it on tape.......at this point, I'm actually afraid to watch. ANYTHING redeeming about the epi ?

[paolinki25]

Originally posted by jazel
haven't seen the epi yet, have it on tape.......at this point, I'm actually afraid to watch. ANYTHING redeeming about the epi ?

Um....No. The only good parts of this episode were Chloe confronting Lana and calling her on her bs, and Lex opening Clark's eyes to this new Lana, other than that, it was a pretty bad episode.

[STFanatic]

The full moon scene was great :D

[Kal EL2380]

Is Clark Jesus or some kind of saint? I meen come on people. Hes still a man.

[Brizzle]

Originally posted by PHOENIXZERO
Come on, evil ***** Lana giving Lois a round house kick was hilarious!

Word this episode was the best so far damn all you guys just thought it sucked becuz it was a clana episode, I though u guys would be happy clark sees Lana now, but still nothing will satisfy you.

Face it Clark's character has already been ruined since day 1. It is a shame some of you mostly point out Lois and Lana being ruined when Clark is nothing but a pussy who has let people walk all over him, and let Lex do whatever he wants, done some pretty bad things himself, and now he is dating someone who is unstable or crazy.

Pleez take a good look this guy is such a disgrace to for a character that I wouldn't even want him to be Superman. So this epeisode definitely doesn't mock Clark, because Clark, Lex, Lana, Lois have already been a joke now.

[paolinki25]

Originally posted by Kal EL2380
Is Clark Jesus or some kind of saint? I meen come on people. Hes still a man.

I'm not expecting Clark to be a saint, but it gets annoying when he keeps making the same mistakes over and over again and he seems not to learn anything from them.

[Twitch]

Originally posted by insp henderson
Agree and she was under the influence tonight ie not responsible for her actions.
That's a load of crap, and I'm not buying it. Under the influence of what exactly? All she did was gain powers, she was fully in control of herself and responsible for her actions. She had a choice to either use her powers for good, or simply for revenge. Unfortunately she chose the latter, hurting Lois and almost killing Lex in the process.

[paolinki25]

Lan wasn't under the influence of anything. She was the same Lana but with abilities.

[Son of Kal-El20]

Hey, Clark ain't getting some in the movies( Lois unfortunately is always ugly in the movies). So at least he can get some on this show.

[Mello Penelo]

Kate Bosworth isn't ugly. A little on the anorexic side, but not ugly.

[moviefan2k4]

Originally posted by Kal EL2380
Is Clark Jesus or some kind of saint? I meen come on people. Hes still a man. Well, Siegel and Shuster created Superman as someone for people to look up to, and a hero with a higher prurpose in life...especially when it concerns causing earthquakes with Lana at the farm. :rolleyes:

[xrayvision]

Originally posted by insp henderson
Agree and she was under the influence tonight ie not responsible for her actions.

Huh? :confused:

Under the influence? What the heck was she under the influence of? She had Clark's powers. She wasn't injected with a drug. She had so much power that she completely lost control.

Jonathan had the same powers in Exile and Phoenix, yet he risked his health and life to use them to actually help someone he loved. Lana was under no more influence than Jonathan was (which is nothing). They both had a taste of power. They weren't drugged. One could say that power is a drug, but that's when it shows the true nature of a person. A person with absolute power and abuses it is evil while a person with absolute power and uses it to do good is heroic. Therefore the power is not a drug and actually a tool of revelation to a person's true nature.

Lana was absolutely responsible. She didn't have to use the power and could have listened to Clark and given them up mere moments after acquiring them (or whenever it would be until Clark and her found a way to transfer the powers back to Clark).

[SVilleGal03]

Originally posted by insp henderson
As to some others here;

IF CLARK LEAVES THE FARM IT IS NO LONGER SMALLVILLE!

That's a given, when he leaves it will be SUPERMAN in metropolis with some cast members changing. I would really like to see that happen.

Not exactly. The show is still called Smallville even when most of the action in an episode takes place in Metropolis. "Smallville" is supposed to mean Clark's journey towards his ultimate destiny.

Sadly, this series will never earn the right to be called "Metropolis," IMO.

EDIT: Just saw xrayvision's post. Lana's behavior in tonight's episode only justified the phrase, "Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely."

[xrayvision]

Originally posted by Brizzle
Face it Clark's character has already been ruined since day 1.

You're wrong here. Clark's character at day 1 was something that a viewer could believe would become the future Superman. Episodes like Leech truly showed that. Even though he ran away to Metropolis, when he came back, he started thinking about what he wanted to do. And it was believable because of the way Jor-El approached him. In Shattered, he was the man in charge of protecting everyone from Lionel. Though he failed in completely protecting Lana and Lex, he still made it possible for both to survive. In Perry, without his powers he jumped into Saunders Gorge without knowing what would happen to him. He also risked his life in Hidden, though by then he was already a BDA.

Clark used to be far beyond in his journey towards becoming Superman than what he seems to be now. Earlier on, he would not have made moves on a married woman (see Heat) like he did with Lana in season 6. He did not sit back for Chloe to do all the work and even discover his powers. He went head to head against Lionel with Lex & Chloe and put his own life in danger. He did things against his moral code to help Pete when he was in deep trouble, yet genuinely showed regret for breaking away from his character.

The reason Clark is a joke now is because his brains had to be made to look this way in order for Clana to be possible. He realized back in season 3 that Lana would never be right for him. Yet, Al & Miles wanted to press Clana and went on to do so for 4 more years still. In order to do that, they had to make Clark seem like an idiot and ignore what he specifically stated 4 years ago. I also blame an increase in Chloe's role as an intrusion into Clark's investigating & researching aspects. Ever since she learned his secret, the writers got lazy and didn't feel like having Clark do his share of it anymore, so they turned Chloe into his crutch. In earlier seasons, he used to work with Chloe as an equal. They both did research and played off one another greatly. They have to go back to that formula, and I hope it happens this season. I like what I saw in Chloe in Wrath and would think an equal playing field in investigating between her and Clark would work great.

The reason why Clark is shown to be a p*ssy is because of garbage like Lexana and Clana...i.e. love triangles. For some dumbass reason, having Clark and Lex become enemies over principles wasn't good enough. They had to make it be over Lana and make her be the biggest factor of the end to their friendship. This makes both Clark AND Lex look like moronic schoolboys fighting over the head cheerleader. A very unintelligent & mundane way to write the show. If there was no Clark-Lana-Lex triangle, then Clark could say the hell with Lana and move on. But no, they need to have that triangle and pull Clark into the middle of it and 2 other triangles at the same time (Clark-Chloe-Jimmy & Clark-Lois-Ollie). I hate that more than anything. Instead of having Clark go on to look for interesting things like the zoners or fight against 33.1, they had to slow him down and pull him away from the season arcs just to have him in dumbass love triangles. The same thing happened in season 4 when they brought in Lois. Instead of following up on the incredible ending to season 3, they got giddy like a bunch of 5 year olds and wanted to throw her into everything when they had nothing for her to do, and this wound up causing a season 4 filled with fillers. Instead of having an Indiana Jones style of plot where Clark would go out to seek the stones (which according to some posters here was the original idea of season 4), they had to have him play football just to make it possible for them to have scenes between Clark & Lois. And who could forget the most genius move of all...WITCH LANA aka Isobel? WHAT THE F--- WERE THEY THINKING????

All this & more (Reckoning, Promise, etc) has led to the disaster that is the current Clark.

[Demne]

I totally disagree! WHYYYYYYYYY CANNN"T LANA STAY AS KINKY AS THAT! Omg.. that was sexy as hell! Lana gets Clark's powers and the first the she does with them is has earthquake sexual relations with Clark. I think that was the best piece of writing since Clark was romancing it up with Alicia in Vegas.

I am sorry but that is not disgraceful, that was sexy as hell! You guys are nuts!

[vikingjedi]

Clark shouldn't be having sex before he's married. He's supposed to become Superman and that definitely doesn't fit. Little kids watch this show, what kind of message is that?

[Demne]

Originally posted by vikingjedi
Clark shouldn't be having sex before he's married. He's supposed to become Superman and that definitely doesn't fit. Little kids watch this show, what kind of message is that?

Um, Adults watch the show too, and guess what.. Clark nails Lois before they are married too. Pre-marital is like 10% of the population and having Clark be a human is just fine.

[ginnyfan]

Originally posted by thehenry89
triple word, and i've had at least two beers since it started.

LOL!!! I enjoyed it.

[elway]

Originally posted by xrayvision
This episode is truly making me disgusted. Between Clark sleeping with an evil intentioned b*tch and Lana having Clark's powers & abusing them it's a complete mockery to Clark. And the way Lana already knows how to use those abilities when she has never had them and when it took Clark years to learn them is even more disgraceful. And the episode isn't even done yet.

Amen man, amen.

Thats what I was thinking when Lana busted out the heat vision WTF!!! We saw an ep a few weeks back where Clark had to teach Kara on the heat vision, and not to mention the super hearing. Kara was in pain till she found the way to controll it.. Lana on the other hand ( a mere mortal) was well advanced in using it. DAM shame this. Hate to say i told you so but told you so ppl. This shows rediculos.........

I know where Shelby is.....She was running around the farm and fell into one the HUGHE plot holes out there

[SVilleGal03]

Originally posted by Demne
Um, Adults watch the show too, and guess what.. Clark nails Lois before they are married too. Pre-marital is like 10% of the population and having Clark be a human is just fine.

It's a lot higher than you think. I don't know the exact statistics, but I'm pretty sure the numbers on pre-marital sex are a lot more than 10%.

However, this doesn't excuse the future Superman from doing it. Oh, wait...he already has. :rolleyes: Twice - RedK with Alicia, and "normal" with Lana.

On SV, Clark has never had anything romantic going on with Lois with the exception of the episode "Crimson," where he was on RedK. Other than that, his relationship with Lois is on a friendly basis.

EDIT: From the NCBI 2002 survey on premarital sex (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?db=pubmed&list_uids=17236611&cmd=Retrieve&indexed=google):


RESULTS: Data from the 2002 survey indicate that by age 20, 77% of respondents had had sex, 75% had had premarital sex, and 12% had married; by age 44, 95% of respondents (94% of women, 96% of men, and 97% of those who had ever had sex) had had premarital sex. Even among those who abstained until at least age 20, 81% had had premarital sex by age 44. Among cohorts of women turning 15 between 1964 and 1993, at least 91% had had premarital sex by age 30. Among those turning 15 between 1954 and 1963, 82% had had premarital sex by age 30, and 88% had done so by age 44.

[LoisKent2006]

Originally posted by BadToad
Just had to Word! that again X-Ray

For me, I don't really have an issue with the drinking or the sex. Though I've said all along that Lex and Clark sharing a sex partner is rather squickky. But really, I can get over that.

But in this episode, I thought Lana was absolutely venomous. And if that was just directed at Lex, I could understand it. But it wasn't. What the heck was up with her assaulting Lois, and then looking proud of herself for doing it? Thats just twisted. And then her comments to Clark, not to mention the fact that she attacked him? What the heck? If Lana is supposedly in love with Clark, then why does she seem to have no respect for him whatsoever? If she doesn't like the way he lives his life, and uses his powers, then she can just move her evil freeloading butt out of his house then, can't she? Does she love him? In this episode, not that I could tell.

And honestly, I get Clark not being hostile with her, and I understand him trying to find a reason for her behavior. I really do. But to continue to be so blind about a woman that seems to have no respect for you? It just makes Clark appear masochistic? Honestly, at this point in his life, he has much bigger fish to fry that running after Lana and trying to clean up her messes. And in the 7th year of this show, I'm not sure how anyone doesn't see that.

Completely agree!

When Lana said she did all these things for the good of Clark, I wanted to puke! (Attacking Lois with super power is for the good of Clark? Funny!)

I was so angry that Clark keeps excusing Lana's illegal behaviors. Clark is so blind that I really want to kick his butt and shake him violently.

For god's sake, this woman is EVIL; open your goddamned blind eyes, Clark! :mad:

[DestinyAw8s]

Originally posted by NoSupeForYou
As the expression goes, "the road to hell is paved with good intentions."

I'm really not surprised with the way they present Clark. In this modern day pc world it's wrong to judge people and Superman is a character who doesn't fit in with it so he has to be destroyed. Saw it coming when in Superman Returns they said "truth, justice and all that stuff," instead of "truth, justice, and the American way."

I caught that too, NoSupeForYou. For such a small thing, it left a big impact on me. Superman of the past would have proudly echoed the iconic statement. "All that stuff" left me with the unpleasant feeling that the legend is changing . . . and not for the better. Now, I suppose I'll have to start dealing with a Superman stuck in the mind-boggling conundrum of trying to be politically correct. Don't think I'll even bother. So sad.

[TheANIMAL (marcus)]

If i were Clark in that situation i would have raped that b1tch six ways to sunday, she might have been satisfied and happy enough not to kill people then.


My joking aside though, some of you guys take things way too seriously.

[LoisKent2006]

Originally posted by Son of Kal-El20
Hey, Clark ain't getting some in the movies( Lois unfortunately is always ugly in the movies). So at least he can get some on this show.

I don't think Kate Bosworth is ugly. She was just too thin when she was shooting Superman Returns. Now She is better. :p


Originally posted by xrayvision
Huh? :confused:

Under the influence? What the heck was she under the influence of? She had Clark's powers. She wasn't injected with a drug. She had so much power that she completely lost control.

Jonathan had the same powers in Exile and Phoenix, yet he risked his health and life to use them to actually help someone he loved. Lana was under no more influence than Jonathan was (which is nothing). They both had a taste of power. They weren't drugged. One could say that power is a drug, but that's when it shows the true nature of a person. A person with absolute power and abuses it is evil while a person with absolute power and uses it to do good is heroic. Therefore the power is not a drug and actually a tool of revelation to a person's true nature.

Lana was absolutely responsible. She didn't have to use the power and could have listened to Clark and given them up mere moments after acquiring them (or whenever it would be until Clark and her found a way to transfer the powers back to Clark).


Do you guys remeber there is one episode called ""Ultra Woman" in season 3 of Lois & Clark?

In the episode, Lois accidentally got Clark's powers and went save the world after Clark taught her how to control those powers.



:)

[JudasAce]

God this episode was crap.

At this point, I'm just watching most parts of this show to laugh at it.

[TampaVille]

Originally posted by vikingjedi
Clark shouldn't be having sex before he's married. He's supposed to become Superman and that definitely doesn't fit. Little kids watch this show, what kind of message is that?

It's a message that says, "Not everybody holds the same set of arbitrary morals written down thousands of years ago, and that's okay." Many believe premarital sex is fine. CK is one of them. There is nothing wrong with that.

If Clark had a line where he said, "The Bible teaches premarital sex is bad, therefore nobody may have premarital sex, and nobody may think it's alright," well, THEN there'd be something wrong with the show.

[Dor el]

Originally posted by HalJordan4184
Lana was not acting for the good of her and Clark. That was her justification for her actions, not the actual reason for doing them. As Lionel pointed out, she's more like Lex than any of them realize, and she's in this because it's simply what she wants to do. She's trying to convince herself her actions are altruistic, but in reality, it's pure revenge.

I truly agree with this post. Lana is trying to justify her obsession with getting revenge with 'the good for humanity' attitude. I don't think she give a fig about getting rid ofLex to save everyone else. She wants Lex taken down. Pure and simple. And she proved tonight that she will do what ever it takes.

I think this episode did, in fact , have some redeeming qualities. I liked the nod toward Brainiac's (or Bizarro's) return. I like that Clark is recognizing that something is definitely up with Lana. I like that Chloe, Clark's truly loving and devoted friend is taking on crazy wicked mean spirited girl in tight black outfit to protect her friend. And unlike Lana, Chloe is doing it above board and out in the open. I like that Lex still can put the screws to Clarks' mind. I like that Clark did not commit to undying unconditional love for Lana. I liked that. Although I thought Lana was hypocritical, what she said to Clark will surely get him thinking about his past and future choices. If wicked mean girl can see that he has a lot to offer the world, then maybe he can get over himself and start to see it too. I really liked Chloe's reference to Ra being brought to his knees by Isis and the implications for Lana and Clark. She has already brought him to his knees, figuratively speaking. And I have to wonder, now that she knows about green K, will she used that against him when she doesn't get her way. Will she get angry at Clark and try to hurt him?

I thought it was in character for Clark to protect someone he really doesn't like against someone he really does like because it was the right thing to do. superman would do that.

I think Clark is realizing that he has made some ill advised choices and the consequences are disturbing him greatly.

When did Clark betray Lana? Breaking up with some one is not betrayal. Keeping a big secret is not betrayal. Clark's behavior with Simone was not Clark's dirty deed; it was Lex's. Clark has done everything superhumanly possible to protect her, to love her, to make her happy, to defend her, to exonerate her when she didn't deserve it, to make excuses for her, and more. He wanted to give up who he is (become human to be with her) for her. I don't see that Clark has betrayed anyone but himself.

There are other redeeming qualities, but I gotta go.

[JorEl23]

SUPER Kudos finally to TPTB!!!! First the straight up finger to the whiners and haters in Action...now full on hardcore CLANA Super Sex!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Chloe felt it from miles away...hopefully her delusional hater minions did too!!

[TampaVille]

Originally posted by JorEl23
SUPER Kudos finally to TPTB!!!! First the straight up finger to the whiners and haters in Action...now full on hardcore CLANA Super Sex!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Chloe felt it from miles away...hopefully her delusional hater minions did too!!

I'm not a huge fan of Clana at this point, but I thought the supersex mini-earthquakes were pretty funny. And that whole Clark-Lana-Chloe scene was priceless.

On a related note, that is TWICE now that Chloe has walked in on the aftermath of Clana sex, lol. First when CK lost his powers, and he was having 'the talk' with the folks, now this.

[MozartRequiem]

"This episode is truly making me disgusted. Between Clark sleeping with an evil intentioned b*tch and Lana having Clark's powers & abusing them it's a complete mockery to Clark. And the way Lana already knows how to use those abilities when she has never had them and when it took Clark years to learn them is even more disgraceful. And the episode isn't even done yet."

I think on the contrary: this episode is a TESTAMENT to Clark and his powers and how he uses them.

We see just how responsible and Superman-esque he is with his powers already, in stark contrast to how Lana uses them. Still, though, Lana's points are well-founded, and we can't help but feel she's right when she says, "So many would be alive today if you'd just have killed Lex already." But Clark still refuses to cross that line, and that's totally him being Superman.

So what if Lana learned faster? It doesn't mean she's BETTER with her powers than Clark, obviously. It just means she's a girl, and girls mature faster PHYSICALLY (although Lana knowing how to do all this without really learning from Clark is a little far-fetched, but they only have so much time in an episode, you know?)

As far as Clark and Lana having sex, that's not a disgrace at all, IMO. Lana is not "evil-intentioned". She has very valid points and reasons for her ruthless acts towards the Luthors, and as much as we may want to all believe in Clark's methods, Lana, as I mentioned earlier, does make a good point about how many would be alive if Lex had just been killed earlier. But of course Clark knows that we can't just go killing people, which doesn't make Lana "evil-intentioned", but instead, merely makes Clark "Superman-intentioned", whereas Lana is more like how a regular human being might think. It's not like Rhas Al Ghul in "Batman Begins", where he killed a bunch of innocent people in order to serve a greater good. No, Lana only wanted Lex, who was NOT innocent. Of course, though, where do you draw the line? And how can Lana know that Lex is not changed for good? Maybe he is, in which case, she'd have killed someone on the path of redemption. So there are, of course, too many moral debates on this, but my point is, Lana is thinking with logic, and Clark is thinking with his heart. It's always been what's separated Clark the most as a hero from other heroes, and is both his blessing and weakness. That doesn't make Lana a bad person. Just a different thinker on the subject than Clark.

[ShelbyKent]

Originally posted by TampaVille
I'm not a huge fan of Clana at this point, but I thought the supersex mini-earthquakes were pretty funny. And that whole Clark-Lana-Chloe scene was priceless.

On a related note, that is TWICE now that Chloe has walked in on the aftermath of Clana sex, lol. First when CK lost his powers, and he was having 'the talk' with the folks, now this. Well she's his official kryptohag, it comes with the territory :lol:

[kryptonaidxh]

Originally posted by xrayvision
This episode is truly making me disgusted. Between Clark sleeping with an evil intentioned b*tch and Lana having Clark's powers & abusing them it's a complete mockery to Clark. And the way Lana already knows how to use those abilities when she has never had them and when it took Clark years to learn them is even more disgraceful. And the episode isn't even done yet.

;) :rolleyes: actually, I disliked this episode a lot for the same reasons:p :(
-Clark sleeping with that slut witch:( , and I was already dreaming with not having to see that kind of scenes between them, ewww!:\ groust!:\
-Clark blaming himself and blaming Lex for Lana evil acts!, come on!, the witch is the only responsible for her bad behavior, nobody forced to act like a villian.:rolleyes:
-Clark one more time apologizing Lana, like everything she has done wasn´t so bad.:rolleyes:
and all that irritated me even more than Lana.:p :)

[TampaVille]

Originally posted by kryptonaidxh
-Clark sleeping with that slut witch:( , and I was already dreaming with not having to see that kind of scenes between them, ewww!:\ groust!:\


You don't have to like Lana... I most certainly don't... but I don't think that word applies to her. She's had sex with, I believe, two men total. One, she ended up engaged to. The other has been in love with her since he was 5 or so, and they've been involved off and on for several years now.

Again, I don't much like the character that Lana has become either, but that term doesn't make sense for her. There are a lot of negative things you could call her that DO apply, lol, so there is no need to force ones that don't.

[STFanatic]

I would have been more accepting had Lana not attempted to murder Lois. She knowingly struck her full out fully aware that she was endowed with bone crushing strength.

As for the earthquake sex, I am sure Lana will pay for the repairs on the farmhouse as there is no doubt there is major structural damage since the effects were felt all the way to Metropolis.
The USGS should be investigating as the epicenter will be traced to the area of the Kent farm, I want to hear the explanation for that ;)

[superpal1]

Lana abused Clarks power. Her going crazy and using them in all sorts of evil ways and willing to kill, just shows how strong physically and mentally Clark is to not turn into that type of person.

[Eeyore840]

Originally posted by NoSupeForYou
As the expression goes, "the road to hell is paved with good intentions."

I'm really not surprised with the way they present Clark. In this modern day pc world it's wrong to judge people and Superman is a character who doesn't fit in with it so he has to be destroyed. Saw it coming when in Superman Returns they said "truth, justice and all that stuff," instead of "truth, justice, and the American way."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I was disappointed in that scene in Superman Returns also. :(

Superman's character IS being changed for the sake of political correctness, the result being the mess that is Smallville.


Originally posted by superman79
Yeah the problem with Smallville is that they have tried to negate Superman's moral center. He would never do these things, the same can't be said for the other characters. This is what makes Supes as amazing of a character and role model!

Originally posted by moviefan2k4
Well, Siegel and Shuster created Superman as someone for people to look up to, and a hero with a higher prurpose in life...


Like it or not, the original Clark Kent/Superman character of the comics was written as belonging to a family that practiced Methodist Christian values. Clark's morals are part of what makes him such a strong person. In some versions of the comics, his virginity was intact until his marriage to Lois, and in others he and Lois had pre-marital sex. The bottom line is that he was committed to Lois in both scenarios. Where have we seen any of that committment to Lana? In Clark's horny schoolboy peeping Tom behavior? In his idealizing of a girl who in one episode claims to love him, but a few episodes later tells him she can't believe she ever loved him and then beds his nemesis? Where have we seen that Lana even deserves that kind of devotion/committment from Clark? To change who Clark Kent is and what he represents just to accommodate Lana's character is wrong.

[kal-el_Girl]

Originally posted by HowardFilms
Yeah...let's cancel all the shows with sex and drinking!


....hey, why is my TV stuck on the Weather Channel...? lol
hey not even animal planet escapes the sex..
those meerkats are vicious...:rotfl:

[Mello Penelo]

Originally posted by insp henderson
Agree and she was under the influence tonight ie not responsible for her actions.

She was in control of her actions. She was using her powers for personal gain. The difference between Clark and Lana is that Clark chooses to do the right thing, in spite of having the power to do whatever he wants. Clark could kill, but he doesn't. He could steal, but he doesn't.

But Lana, like most people, would use the powers for her own benefit. She was in complete control and totally responsible for her actions.

[Demne]

actually clark steals things all the time, breaks into other peoples property.. so technically he does do those things.

[Kryptonian-Ronin]

Originally posted by Mello Penelo
She was in control of her actions. She was using her powers for personal gain. The difference between Clark and Lana is that Clark chooses to do the right thing, in spite of having the power to do whatever he wants. Clark could kill, but he doesn't. He could steal, but he doesn't.

But Lana, like most people, would use the powers for her own benefit. She was in complete control and totally responsible for her actions.

Even she said so herself.

[LovelyLoisLane]

I don't know about pre-marital sex . . . I'd get it all day every day if I could ;) I like the spirits, though I could be a D.A.R.E advertisement when it comes to drugs . . . so I'm not the most glowing moral compass in the world.

What bothered me was, as someone mentioned, Lana just knowing how to use all his powers. Just watching him work with them? Sorry, but no, that wouldn't help her be able to control them, especially after she says herself 'I had no idea it was like this!' Contrivance so they could spend all the time on Lana abusing those powers without explaining how she learned to activate and/or use them . . . that's not uncommon on this show but it did irk me.

There was a very egregious error made when talking about my favorite ancient Egyptian goddess . . . must be this show doesn't know about a little god of the underworld, the dead and the damned known as Anubis. They should since AlMiles are going to be working on the "Mummy III" But hey, if one is looking for factual or accurate mythology and/or history . . . Smallville isn't the place to go. So I'm not all that surprised they would stretch the truth to suit the needs of making a comparison to a certain character. It did bother me though, since I spent a great portion of my high school years looking into the Ancient Egyptian Pantheon and have written many stories that used the information I learned. Bah, I'll get over it :P

I also didn't like how Lana completely left out that Lionel said he only threatened Clark, not because he would have really killed him, but to keep Lana in the dark and protect Clark. That was messed up.

A lot of things in this episode were cute in certain spots, and a dark portent in others and I always enjoy a dark Lana so that was nice too. It makes me laugh though how characters always seem to have a specific 'bad girl/ bad boy' outfit in the back of their closet for the days where just maybe they'll undergo possession, alternate personality, cloning or any kind of alpha characterization. LOL, though with Lana she already had black clothes, Clark on the other hand has no excuse for never wearing his nice silk shirts and black dress slacks except when he's 'not quite himself' :P

Clark trying to say he had to blame himself for Lana so he could excuse his actions . . . who else was reaching for K-rock? But then Lana surprised me and tried to take some responsibility for herself. It was interesting though that Clark didn't respond right away when she asked him to tell her he'd always love her, no matter what . . . especially given the look he was giving her with the song in the background playing the words 'your eyes say it all' What did Craig say ? "Is the honeymoon over?" Probably won't mean anything next week though.

I really REALLY REALLY hated the Lorant scene at the end. So wrong in so many different ways. All things considered it wasn't as horrible as episodes so vapid and useless that you feel your brain leaking out your ears . . like say 'Fierce'. Wasn't great by any means either. Just so-so.

[98chase]

Originally posted by xrayvision
I gave Lana the benefit of the doubt for a verrrrrry long time.

But if you don't see her actions as evil, especially in this episode, then I don't know what else to say.

Lana sending Lois to the hospital was a criminal act and not one a good person would do. Neither was deciding what's right for everyone and trying to kill Lex. Those are the actions of a dictator. Lana's mind wasn't altered in this episode either. She was completely in control of her actions. She had powers and abused them.

Clark blaming himself for this is ridiculous and a disgrace. Lana getting those powers and complaining how Clark stayed on the farm was a mockery to Clark saving her ass all those times. So was Lana learning how to use all those powers in a matter of seconds. At least with Eric Summers he only used the basic powers like superspeed & superstrength in both episodes he was in. Clark having sex with Lana in season 5 was OK, but now that she is corrupt and doing all kinds of twisted things to Lionel and involved in shady deals, I found it disgusting to have a sex scene between her & Clark (even if they showed none of it).
Lana is most definitely evil. However, I don't think that is necessarily a bad thing.

As far as Clark blaming himself, I see nothing wrong with that either. What he did is "human." As a person, you want to believe that the person you "love" is perfect. You do not want to taint the image you have of them. It's easier to put their misfortunes and actions on yourself, as opposed to believing that they are capable of horrid things.


Originally posted by SVilleGal03
Um...last I checked, the legal drinking age in Kansas was still 21. And last I checked, Clark and Lana are both...twenty. Underage.

If it were sparkling cider, then I wouldn't be complaining. But Lana specifically mentioned "champagne and truffles."

Tragic, really. Smallville used to be a good family show. But everything went downhill after the fourth season, and even further after they killed Jonathan off.
Really? You're that worried about 20 year olds drinking? I'm not saying what they did is right, because obviously it is against the law. But, I just don't understand how someone would get worked up over that.


Originally posted by paolinki25
:lol: The sex quakes were pretty ridiculous. If that was supposed to be some kind of romantic, sexy moment between the two, it just came off looking like one of those "supposed to be funny" moments in teenage movies.
I don't think that it was supposed to be a romantic, sexy moment. I know if I had super human powers and was not able to "be myself" in an intimate way, I would smash so hard when an opportunity presented itself. So hard that the world would, in fact, shake.

[paolinki25]

Like everybody has said, I don't think this is about being upset because Clark had sex with Lana. It was expected, and it was obvious TPTB were going to take advantage of the loophole to allow them to have sex. The problem with this episode was how Clark keeps blaming himself for Lana's poor decisions. I applaud the fact he called her on a lot of the crazy stuff she's pulled off, but the minute he blamed himself for her actions, everything he said before just felt apart. It's time for Clark to see that there's no one to blame for Lana's actions than Lana herself, and it's time for him to see that this woman, well, she's just not THE ONE for him. Plain and simple. When is he going to realize this?

[Mello Penelo]

Originally posted by Demne
actually clark steals things all the time, breaks into other peoples property.. so technically he does do those things.

Yeah, this crap version of Clark does, but ideally, no.

[98chase]

Here's my issue with the "Superman slept with someone other than Lois, he slept with someone before marriage, zomg, they're ruining everything" comments.
Yes, they are "ruining" some aspects of Superman. Aspects that were written decades ago when they could not show on T.V. a husband and wife sleeping in the same bed at night. I'm not trying to justify changing things, nor am I saying that they should change things. However, the "values" of Superman that everyone is acquainted with were "values" of the 1930's and 40's. Our Clark was born and raised in Kansas, during the 1980's and 90's.
Again, I'm not saying that it's ok that certain aspects are changed, but this show is a representation of Clark Kent before Superman, during a time that has a completely different set of morals and values than the "original" Superman would.

Also, the show is being aired on TV, they are trying to captivate an audience. Seriously, did you honestly believe that they wouldn't change some things?

[dan_oc714]

i really think they're really making lana this way to have clark really forget about her.. i mean honestly.. if you've ever been madly in love..the only way you let it go .. and forget is..for the other person just to change and be a jerk.. so .. i think they're preparing his departure..cause she can't die.. unless they're gonna rewrite that myth...

[Kryptonian-Ronin]

Originally posted by 98chase
Here's my issue with the "Superman slept with someone other than Lois, he slept with someone before marriage, zomg, they're ruining everything" comments.
Yes, they are "ruining" some aspects of Superman. Aspects that were written decades ago when they could not show on T.V. a husband and wife sleeping in the same bed at night. I'm not trying to justify changing things, nor am I saying that they should change things. However, the "values" of Superman that everyone is acquainted with were "values" of the 1930's and 40's. Our Clark was born and raised in Kansas, during the 1980's and 90's.
Again, I'm not saying that it's ok that certain aspects are changed, but this show is a representation of Clark Kent before Superman, during a time that has a completely different set of morals and values than the "original" Superman would.

Also, the show is being aired on TV, they are trying to captivate an audience. Seriously, did you honestly believe that they wouldn't change some things?

Yep , pretty much on the button.

[98chase]

Originally posted by dan_oc714
i really think they're really making lana this way to have clark really forget about her.. i mean honestly.. if you've ever been madly in love..the only way you let it go .. and forget is..for the other person just to change and be a jerk.. so .. i think they're preparing his departure..cause she can't die.. unless they're gonna rewrite that myth...
I don't know that I agree with you 100%, but I do believe that you are thinking along the same lines as me.

Clark isn't going to magically wake up one day and think "Man, I really don't like Lana. Why am I wasting my time with her? Let me instantly forget about her." He needs to see her for who and what she truly is in order to get completely over her. I honestly believe that once Clark comes to the realization that he and Lana should not be together, he will truthfully begin his journey to Superman. Recognizing Lana for what she is will begin to break his bonds with his child hood, and he'll begin to look to the future. I think this last "Hoorah" of a Clana relationship is what Clark needs to realize, accept, and pursue his destiny.

Yes, I agree, it shouldn't have to be this way. Lana shouldn't need to be involved with him accepting his destiny. But, that's the way it is, IMO of course.

[bad3appels]

disgraceful?? i`m sure clark had a lot fun...i mean: SUPERSEX :lol:

[paolinki25]

Originally posted by 98chase
Clark isn't going to magically wake up one day and think "Man, I really don't like Lana. Why am I wasting my time with her? Let me instantly forget about her." He needs to see her for who and what she truly is in order to get completely over her. I honestly believe that once Clark comes to the realization that he and Lana should not be together, he will truthfully begin his journey to Superman. Recognizing Lana for what she is will begin to break his bonds with his child hood, and he'll begin to look to the future. I think this last "Hoorah" of a Clana relationship is what Clark needs to realize, accept, and pursue his destiny.

I agree. Like you said, I don't expect Clark to wake up one day and say "Oh god, I hate Lana", but it's a process of discovering she is just not the girl he felt in love with, and sooner or later realize that a romantic relationship with her is not what he needs right now. I expect to see this process throughout this season.

[margroks]

No the disgusting and vulgar sex with a nasty ***** who lies and cheats and tortures people is not ever okay. It wasn't okay when it first happened right after Lana killed her BF's mother and had the Luthors cover it up and it's not okay now that Lana is even more awful. It makes Clark look like a totally selfish jerk and a huge dumbass to say ok to sex with such an awful girl. It trashes his character completely especially later when he admits he knew somethign wasn['t right. I don;t think this is a Lana clone but even if it was, lana has done other nasty things lile killing Jason's mother and she alone is responsible for her actiosn. She's an unfaithull girl who has no redeeming valuie and makes Clark look like a complete moron. Clark should be ashamed as should the writers who brought us this BS.

[Eeyore840]

Originally posted by 98chase
Here's my issue with the "Superman slept with someone other than Lois, he slept with someone before marriage, zomg, they're ruining everything" comments.
Yes, they are "ruining" some aspects of Superman. Aspects that were written decades ago when they could not show on T.V. a husband and wife sleeping in the same bed at night. I'm not trying to justify changing things, nor am I saying that they should change things. However, the "values" of Superman that everyone is acquainted with were "values" of the 1930's and 40's. Our Clark was born and raised in Kansas, during the 1980's and 90's.
Again, I'm not saying that it's ok that certain aspects are changed, but this show is a representation of Clark Kent before Superman, during a time that has a completely different set of morals and values than the "original" Superman would.

Also, the show is being aired on TV, they are trying to captivate an audience. Seriously, did you honestly believe that they wouldn't change some things?


A couple of points:

"Clark" wasn't born and raised in Kansas. "Kal-El" was born on Krypton and was raised in Kansas as "Clark Kent".


So, hypothetically speaking, if rape and murder were accepted values in the 80's and 90's, then Clark should participate in those activities too, in order to have a captive TV audience? God, I would hope not.

Yes, I realize that in order to have a successful TV show the writers would have to change some things, just as when a book becomes a movie there are changes made to the script. But when you change the hero's character to the extent it has been altered on Smallville just to make him "relevant", you lose the essence of who this character was to begin with. I have a problem with that.

[galatians221]

Originally posted by moviefan2k4
Well, Siegel and Shuster created Superman as someone for people to look up to, and a hero with a higher prurpose in life...especially when it concerns causing earthquakes with Lana at the farm. :rolleyes:

That's right. "El" means God in Hebrew and Siegel and Schuster were both observant Jews who wrote about a Messiah type of character who came from outside our world and appeared here miraculously and grew up amongst us but wasn't one of us. He's not a perfect depiction of Jesus of course but what the writers of Smallville are doing is at odds I believe with the original intent of the creators of the character.


Originally posted by xrayvision
You're wrong here. Clark's character at day 1 was something that a viewer could believe would become the future Superman. Episodes like Leech truly showed that. Even though he ran away to Metropolis, when he came back, he started thinking about what he wanted to do. And it was believable because of the way Jor-El approached him. In Shattered, he was the man in charge of protecting everyone from Lionel. Though he failed in completely protecting Lana and Lex, he still made it possible for both to survive. In Perry, without his powers he jumped into Saunders Gorge without knowing what would happen to him. He also risked his life in Hidden, though by then he was already a BDA.

Clark used to be far beyond in his journey towards becoming Superman than what he seems to be now. Earlier on, he would not have made moves on a married woman (see Heat) like he did with Lana in season 6. He did not sit back for Chloe to do all the work and even discover his powers. He went head to head against Lionel with Lex & Chloe and put his own life in danger. He did things against his moral code to help Pete when he was in deep trouble, yet genuinely showed regret for breaking away from his character.

The reason Clark is a joke now is because his brains had to be made to look this way in order for Clana to be possible. He realized back in season 3 that Lana would never be right for him. Yet, Al & Miles wanted to press Clana and went on to do so for 4 more years still. In order to do that, they had to make Clark seem like an idiot and ignore what he specifically stated 4 years ago. I also blame an increase in Chloe's role as an intrusion into Clark's investigating & researching aspects. Ever since she learned his secret, the writers got lazy and didn't feel like having Clark do his share of it anymore, so they turned Chloe into his crutch. In earlier seasons, he used to work with Chloe as an equal. They both did research and played off one another greatly. They have to go back to that formula, and I hope it happens this season. I like what I saw in Chloe in Wrath and would think an equal playing field in investigating between her and Clark would work great.

The reason why Clark is shown to be a p*ssy is because of garbage like Lexana and Clana...i.e. love triangles. For some dumbass reason, having Clark and Lex become enemies over principles wasn't good enough. They had to make it be over Lana and make her be the biggest factor of the end to their friendship. This makes both Clark AND Lex look like moronic schoolboys fighting over the head cheerleader. A very unintelligent & mundane way to write the show. If there was no Clark-Lana-Lex triangle, then Clark could say the hell with Lana and move on. But no, they need to have that triangle and pull Clark into the middle of it and 2 other triangles at the same time (Clark-Chloe-Jimmy & Clark-Lois-Ollie). I hate that more than anything. Instead of having Clark go on to look for interesting things like the zoners or fight against 33.1, they had to slow him down and pull him away from the season arcs just to have him in dumbass love triangles. The same thing happened in season 4 when they brought in Lois. Instead of following up on the incredible ending to season 3, they got giddy like a bunch of 5 year olds and wanted to throw her into everything when they had nothing for her to do, and this wound up causing a season 4 filled with fillers. Instead of having an Indiana Jones style of plot where Clark would go out to seek the stones (which according to some posters here was the original idea of season 4), they had to have him play football just to make it possible for them to have scenes between Clark & Lois. And who could forget the most genius move of all...WITCH LANA aka Isobel? WHAT THE F--- WERE THEY THINKING????

All this & more (Reckoning, Promise, etc) has led to the disaster that is the current Clark.

Agreed and what makes it worse is that the writers constantly tease us by having an episode like Bizarro where Clark essentially functions as Superman; saving tens of thousands from doom by using his heat vision on a flooding torrent and then dispatching Bizarro. They have him tell Martha that as soon as the last phantom is destroyed he is going for his training. Now they're going to bring back Brainiac and recycle him and we'll see Oliver, MM and others including Kara and he never leaves the farm. They have written him to the edge of his boyhood and it is time for him to embrace manhood. The writers have had Oliver tell him this as well as Martha, MM, Kara, Jor El, Lionel and Chloe. Then he lapses back into his adoring Lana's arms and even she has told him to hit the road and he wants to stay with her in the barn forever. It's silly.

[Super Maverick]

Originally posted by xrayvision
This episode is truly making me disgusted.

agreeed

[msleggie]

Originally posted by xrayvision
I gave Lana the benefit of the doubt for a verrrrrry long time.

But if you don't see her actions as evil, especially in this episode, then I don't know what else to say.

Lana sending Lois to the hospital was a criminal act and not one a good person would do. Neither was deciding what's right for everyone and trying to kill Lex. Those are the actions of a dictator. Lana's mind wasn't altered in this episode either. She was completely in control of her actions. She had powers and abused them.

Clark blaming himself for this is ridiculous and a disgrace. Lana getting those powers and complaining how Clark stayed on the farm was a mockery to Clark saving her ass all those times. So was Lana learning how to use all those powers in a matter of seconds. At least with Eric Summers he only used the basic powers like superspeed & superstrength in both episodes he was in. Clark having sex with Lana in season 5 was OK, but now that she is corrupt and doing all kinds of twisted things to Lionel and involved in shady deals, I found it disgusting to have a sex scene between her & Clark (even if they showed none of it).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Couldn't agree more! I was screaming at the TV when Clark started blaming himself. He had good reasons for keeping his secret for so long, he shouldn't feel ashamed b/c of it. The scenes with Clark and Lex pissed me off b/c Clark always takes Lex's crap! He needs to stop being a little punk b****, and stand up for himself---and get rid of Lana!

[moviefan2k4]

Originally posted by galatians221

...what the writers of Smallville are doing is at odds I believe with the original intent of the creators of the character.

I agree completely. I remember wanting to knock a few people into next week, when the series began raising its sexual content. The writers have some serious work to do (once the strike ends), if they're to have any chance of reconciling Clark with the classic Superman legend.

[98chase]

Originally posted by Eeyore840
A couple of points:

"Clark" wasn't born and raised in Kansas. "Kal-El" was born on Krypton and was raised in Kansas as "Clark Kent".


So, hypothetically speaking, if rape and murder were accepted values in the 80's and 90's, then Clark should participate in those activities too, in order to have a captive TV audience? God, I would hope not.

Yes, I realize that in order to have a successful TV show the writers would have to change some things, just as when a book becomes a movie there are changes made to the script. But when you change the hero's character to the extent it has been altered on Smallville just to make him "relevant", you lose the essence of who this character was to begin with. I have a problem with that.
Sorry about saying "Born and raised in Kansas." This week has been extremely mentally strenuous, and I temporarily brain farted while making that statement.

I never once implied that Clark should kill people, even if it was socially acceptable. Nor did I say that he all of the morals from the past would be changed to the morals of the present. I was, however, pointing out that all aspects of Superman should not hold true, simply because Clark was raised in a time period other than the 40's. Most of his morals and values should remain constant, but some should definitely change. I feel that Smallville's Clark has the appropriate morals, especially for this time in his life...a 20 year old male. He is not "Superman" yet.....

[Son of Kal-El20]

Superman isn't Jesus. Thank god he isn't.

He's supposed to make men envy him. He gives women better sex than we normal men can give them and we will be jealous of Superman for that.

[moviefan2k4]

Originally posted by Son of Kal-El20
Superman isn't Jesus. Thank god he isn't.

He's supposed to make men envy him. He gives women better sex than we normal men can give them and we will be jealous of Superman for that. No, the original intention was a hero that people could admire, respect, and aspire to be. Envy doesn't really fit the mold, in my opinion.

[Eeyore840]

Originally posted by 98chase
Sorry about saying "Born and raised in Kansas." This week has been extremely mentally strenuous, and I temporarily brain farted while making that statement.

I never once implied that Clark should kill people, even if it was socially acceptable. Nor did I say that he all of the morals from the past would be changed to the morals of the present. I was, however, pointing out that all aspects of Superman should not hold true, simply because Clark was raised in a time period other than the 40's. Most of his morals and values should remain constant, but some should definitely change. I feel that Smallville's Clark has the appropriate morals, especially for this time in his life...a 20 year old male. He is not "Superman" yet.....


I am in no way implying that you did say that Clark should kill people. That is why I included the term "hypothetical" in my response.

Regarding whether or not Smallville's Clark has the appropriate morals, we will have to agree to disagree.:) I hope you have a relaxing weekend.

[HalJordan4184]

Clark doesn't have the appropriate morals for CLark Kent, he has the appropriate morals for an average 20/21 year old male in today's society. Those two are completely different things. Clark Kent is not supposed to be able to get away with some of the stupid, and frankly immoral things, society currently lets people get away with. I'm not necessarily talking pre marital sex, but things like the drug use, and constant lying.

[TheSupaMan]

Pre-marital sex!?! Gee golly, god forbid they do it for the second time! Seriously guys, its not like it's a sure thing they're not doing it off-screen anyway.

[HalJordan4184]

I think it is since Chloe made the comment when she found out they had just had sex, that she thought Lana told her they couldn't, and Lana said well, we couldn't before, but now...

[moviefan2k4]

Originally posted by HalJordan4184
Clark Kent is not supposed to be able to get away with some of the stupid, and frankly immoral things, society currently lets people get away with.Exactly! The series' version of Clark has become far too politically correct. A classic example is at the beginning of "Hidden", when Jonathan and Martha discover Clark slept with Lana. I'd personally side with Jonathan on that issue, especially when Clark challenges his parents with, "Oh, like you didn't do it?" A wiseass remark like that would've got me slapped as a kid. I remember actually being shocked that Martha wasn't too upset, especially given her reaction to Clark & Alicia's impromptu marriage in "Unsafe".

As for the constant lying, I agree the writers have had Clark do that way too much. Granted, a certain amount of deception is necessary because he's an alien in hiding...but that shouldn't be a license to cover every time he knowingly avoids or twists the truth.:rolleyes:

[NoSupeForYou]

The whole point of heroes is that they are better than the average person and stand on firm moral ground, at least in Superman's sense. Even Batman who skirts close to the edge never crosses it.

For the transformation to be believable Clark cannot fall so low. It was supposed to be about Clark's growth into Superman, not a redemption.

[cma5ft11]

Originally posted by TampaVille
You don't have to like Lana... I most certainly don't... but I don't think that word applies to her. She's had sex with, I believe, two men total. One, she ended up engaged to. The other has been in love with her since he was 5 or so, and they've been involved off and on for several years now.

Again, I don't much like the character that Lana has become either, but that term doesn't make sense for her. There are a lot of negative things you could call her that DO apply, lol, so there is no need to force ones that don't.

Yeah, fish lips suits her better :eek:

[Eeyore840]

Originally posted by moviefan2k4
Exactly! The series' version of Clark has become far too politically correct. A classic example is at the beginning of "Hidden", when Jonathan and Martha discover Clark slept with Lana. I'd personally side with Jonathan on that issue, especially when Clark challenges his parents with, "Oh, like you didn't do it?" A wiseass remark like that would've got me slapped as a kid. I remember actually being shocked that Martha wasn't too upset, especially given her reaction to Clark & Alicia's impromptu marriage in "Unsafe".

As for the constant lying, I agree the writers have had Clark do that way too much. Granted, a certain amount of deception is necessary because he's an alien in hiding...but that shouldn't be a license to cover every time he knowingly avoids or twists the truth.:rolleyes:

I completely agree. Clark was a real smart ass and behaved so disrespectfully toward Jonathan and Martha in "Hidden" that I wanted to slap him. He showed his immaturity right there. Lana had her own place at the Talon; there was no need for them to be sleeping together in the Kent's home. And Martha's behavior was crazy, considering how she went off on Clark regarding Alicia in "Unsafe". PC at its moral relevant best!:rolleyes:

[moviefan2k4]

Originally posted by JudasAce
Actually, most morals aren't arbitrary. Take the premarital sex thing for example: It helps ensure the survival of the species. If one keeps sex within marriage, it reduces STDs within the population, it reduces children being had by those too young to properly raise and care for them, and it prevents those unable to conform to the basic cocial contract from reproducing, thereby making sure that most of the people in a given society can follow some basic guidelines for cooperation.

Religion was simply devised as a tool to scare people into doing what was best for them. I was with ya on all that, until I read the last line (personal convictions).


Originally posted by Eeyore840
I completely agree. Clark was a real smart ass and behaved so disrespectfully toward Jonathan and Martha in "Hidden" that I wanted to slap him. He showed his immaturity right there. Lana had her own place at the Talon; there was no need for them to be sleeping together in the Kent's home. And Martha's behavior was crazy, considering how she went off on Clark regarding Alicia in "Unsafe". PC at its moral relevant best! Or worst, depending on your viewpoint.

[smlvilleluva]

i don't think it was as terrible as some posters have expressed, but i do think that most of the problems that have been pointed out are valid. i was completely disappointed again with lana's character... it was a total blow to the superman legend that TPTB would tarnish superman's powers. there are so many other ways that this episode could have been done; i just don't understand the rationale behind the final product.

[Kal-ed]

Originally posted by myankskent
Not anymore. That last scene changed that, IMO.

Spoiler


Dont forget in Persona Clark is SOO happy he can fly.

[xrayvision]

Originally posted by galatians221
They have him tell Martha that as soon as the last phantom is destroyed he is going for his training.

This is what really bothered me. It psyched me up for a season where he would be shown to train to deal with problems like Doomsday, Darkseid, the Cyborg Superman, Metallo, etc. I was hoping they would do that by bringing Kal-El from Crusade back and having them duke it out in about 4-5 battles over a season and have both of them interact with the other characters of the show (I would especially like to see scenes between a costumed Kal-El and Lex).

Now they're going to bring back Brainiac and recycle him and we'll see Oliver, MM and others including Kara and he never leaves the farm.

I wouldn't mind seeing Brainiac in a season after the training is done when he's still trying to figure out what to do for a career and what persona he will become as a hero. I think that would have been the perfect time to bring Brainiac back along with introducing Kara (they should have saved her for next season). I don't mind MM helping him out with his training since he knew Jor-El. But I have a problem with Ollie and the rest of the JLA showing up, because that diverts episodes away from getting Clark to take care of his Kryptonian responsibilities. All Ollie did last season was put Clark down for not helping the world. And whenever Ollie was in an episode, it prevented Clark from doing what he should have been doing, and that was stopping the Phantom Zone prisoners that he unleashed.

They have written him to the edge of his boyhood and it is time for him to embrace manhood. The writers have had Oliver tell him this as well as Martha, MM, Kara, Jor El, Lionel and Chloe. Then he lapses back into his adoring Lana's arms and even she has told him to hit the road and he wants to stay with her in the barn forever. It's silly.

It is silly & very annoying. What kind of development is that? One step forward, 2 steps back? It's very inconsistent. Sheriff Adams was right. Clark does flip-flop more than a politician.

[HalJordan4184]

I would rather Clark undergo no training. Nowhere else, except the Chris Reeve movies, did Clark undergo some Fortress of Solitude training. Even there, we don't get actually training so he can be Superman, but learning sciences, languages, about Krypton, and his birth worlds heritage. He learns about his own powers, and where they come from. He doesn't learn how to deal with Super villains, and stop disasters.

Id' much rather this Clark took his own route, and went the way of Byrne's Man of Steel Clark. Travelling the world, educating himself about Earth, it's people, cultures, and everything else. Seeing the terrible things people can do, and also the good they can accomplish. After seeing these things first hand, he decides the best way to help people, is to put on a costume, and become someone who helps in only the way he can. It would be much mroe poignant for this, and actually ties much better into the other characters pushing of him to be a hero, rather than pushing him to go get brainwashed by Jor-El. One of the best lines in all of comicdom is in Superman for All Seasons. Lana is narrating the fourth chapter, and she makes a comment like, to understand the man in the cape with all the amazing powers who saves people, I realized I only had to understand Clark.

[galatians221]

Originally posted by Son of Kal-El20
Superman isn't Jesus. Thank god he isn't.

He's supposed to make men envy him. He gives women better sex than we normal men can give them and we will be jealous of Superman for that.

I hope he remembers to put the toilet seat down

[Theshadow129x]

yeah this wasnt a good episode then again nothing has been good since "Cure"

[SmallvilleMan]

Why wouldn't Clark sleep with the girl he loves? That's just reaching there...........As for Clark's reaction to everything that happened. I think it's VERY understandable....When someone you love as much as he loves Lana does someone you would never think they would do, you go into a state of disbelief and that's what he was in. He just couldn't believe it.

[SteveS]

You have it right, it was perfectly understandable on a couple of levels.

[xrayvision]

Originally posted by HalJordan4184
I would rather Clark undergo no training. Nowhere else, except the Chris Reeve movies, did Clark undergo some Fortress of Solitude training. Even there, we don't get actually training so he can be Superman, but learning sciences, languages, about Krypton, and his birth worlds heritage. He learns about his own powers, and where they come from. He doesn't learn how to deal with Super villains, and stop disasters.

Id' much rather this Clark took his own route, and went the way of Byrne's Man of Steel Clark. Travelling the world, educating himself about Earth, it's people, cultures, and everything else. Seeing the terrible things people can do, and also the good they can accomplish. After seeing these things first hand, he decides the best way to help people, is to put on a costume, and become someone who helps in only the way he can. It would be much mroe poignant for this, and actually ties much better into the other characters pushing of him to be a hero, rather than pushing him to go get brainwashed by Jor-El. One of the best lines in all of comicdom is in Superman for All Seasons. Lana is narrating the fourth chapter, and she makes a comment like, to understand the man in the cape with all the amazing powers who saves people, I realized I only had to understand Clark.

But see, I don't want Clark to be brainwashed by Jor-El to become Superman. I absolutely do not want him to go to the FOS and come out as Superman. I hated that idea from the movie. I think it's the worst thing they could do.

What I do want is for Clark and his Kal-El persona seen in Crusade to once again seperate. A good way to do that is to have Clark purposely release that side of him as an ally to a bunch of villians ganging up on him and Kara, villians like Brainiac, Bizarro, Dr. Knox, Zod, Aethyr, Nam-Ek, or a combination of 3 of these villians. Something like Zod, Bizarro & Brainiac vs. Clark & Kara, where Kal-El would help Clark & Kara out would be a neat way to do it. After Clark's team wins, Kara would leave to get acquainted with Earth while Clark and Kal-El would draw up the rules of engagement of a war they would have for the control of his body. After a designated amount of battles, the winner of the final battle would absorb the loser and take control of Clark's body.

I would do this where Clark would start wearing a pre-Superman costume, or a Naman or Kal-El suit, to hide his identity until he sets up the Superman-Clark Kent dual identity and creates the classic Superman suit. The pre-Superman suit would have a yellow reflective (like a mirror) visor very similar to the one the Eradicator wore in the Reign of the Supermen, but it would be part of a headpiece that would go over Clark's head/hair. The visor would cover his eyes. And the black-k seperation would also cause the suit to duplicate so that both Clark & Kal-El would have it on. Kal-El would always wear the suit while Clark would only wear it so long as Kal-El is around. That way, Lex won't be tipped off that there are 2 Namans (or Kal-El's) so that Lex would finally start to believe that Clark is not Naman and doesn't have powers. This would work especially if he sees the both of them at once.

Now, between the battles between Clark & Kal-El, there could be scenes between Clark and the other characters of Smallville and even scenes between Kal-El and the other characters (especially Lex). I would also have Clark visit the FOS occasionally to learn about the types of kryptonite, so he can use certain types to help him out, and perhaps get pointers from Jor-El. He would also learn how to create Kryptonian technology in case he would need to handle kryptonite or do something to a certain lethal form so that it doesn't kill him.

And the battles would be set up so that Clark loses the first one, very badly. Then in the next one, he learns from previous mistakes and though he loses, there is good progress. Then the next one he would get much closer to winning but lose again, perhaps due to his desire to protect humans from natural disasters occuring during the battle. Then the next one would end up in a draw. And the final one would have Clark beating Kal-El.

Such a plan for training would greatly develop Clark and show that his desire to save humans and the morals that guided him throughout his life along with his battle experience against the enemy he has feared for so long (the enemy from within, his Kryptonian heritage that was forced on him by Jor-El) are what make him Superman and that Superman is his own choice for destiny. It will show that Clark is stronger than the will imposed on him by Jor-El and that the ideal son that Jor-El has always wanted (the Kal-El from Crusade) is surpassed by Clark.

Kal-El is the greatest challenge he can face to prepare him against the toughest villians he will face, like Doomsday, Hank Henshaw, Darkseid, Metallo, Bizarro, and the rest. Clark has to hone his battle skills and mentality and change the style he used against Titan in Combat to one that is fueled by the love of humans and Earth. Clark can not fight those toughest of villians like he would fight against a freak, or human and can't use anger or veangeance to fight them like he did with Titan.

To get past Kal-El, he would need those same mental and physical elements. That's why I think he would be the ideal mechanism to Clark's training.

[vikingjedi]

Originally posted by TampaVille
It's a message that says, "Not everybody holds the same set of arbitrary morals written down thousands of years ago, and that's okay." Many believe premarital sex is fine. CK is one of them. There is nothing wrong with that.

If Clark had a line where he said, "The Bible teaches premarital sex is bad, therefore nobody may have premarital sex, and nobody may think it's alright," well, THEN there'd be something wrong with the show.

Thats the problem, society thinks they're right while it continues to fall apart. Aids and other STD's are rampant because people are sleeping around and cheating on each other, little children are having babies, divorce is as common as marriage now, I could go on and on

Superman represents the opposite of that

[DestinyAw8s]

Originally posted by vikingjedi
Thats the problem, society thinks they're right while it continues to fall apart. Aids and other STD's are rampant because people are sleeping around and cheating on each other, little children are having babies, divorce is as common as marriage now, I could go on and on

Superman represents the opposite of that

Unfortunately, I think we're in the minority on this one, vikingjedi. There are too many people willing to bring done the iconic Superman for their own selfish motives. They want him portrayed as a normal human being (eventhough he's actually an alien) with subpar morals. And they have succeeded. As it is, Smallville's Clark Kent lies, steals, cheats, sleeps around, etc. Gosh, he could be my neighbor. Wait. He's a killer, too (accidentally of course). So, hopefully he isn't my neighbor. I really don't want someone like that living across the street from me, especially with special abilities. I don't see any values, at this point, that could possibly set him apart from anyone else. There are those that say, "well, he's not running rampant with his powers". This is more or less true, and I hope he never does. That would just be the last straw, because then he really wouldn't be any different than the villians he is supposed to fight against. I don't know, I don't see too much super about him other than his physical powers. I think the trick with this Superman is gonna have to be the magical disappearance of most of his past

[Dor el]

Originally posted by HalJordan4184
Clark doesn't have the appropriate morals for CLark Kent, he has the appropriate morals for an average 20/21 year old male in today's society. Those two are completely different things. Clark Kent is not supposed to be able to get away with some of the stupid, and frankly immoral things, society currently lets people get away with. I'm not necessarily talking pre marital sex, but things like the drug use, and constant lying.

Sadly, I must agree. Superman has stood above all others not just in terms of his abilities, but also in terms of his character, his morals, the standard he sets for himself, his love for humanity, and his willingness to sacrifice all for mankind. He always chose to do the right thing when the right thing hurt and when others goaded him to do the popular thing. Superman is an ideal. As much as I hate to admit it, SV is not doing Superman justice.

It seems when writers don't understand the character or run out of ideas they resort to relying on the lower societal standards in hope of wooing more people. What does that say about what the producers and writers think about our society? Not only are they degrading the ideal that is Superman, but they are dissing the rest of us too. I have a lot of time involved in this show. Perhaps too much. I feel they have betrayed Superman and I feel they have betrayed me.

[moviefan2k4]

Originally posted by Dor el
Sadly, I must agree. Superman has stood above all others not just in terms of his abilities, but also in terms of his character, his morals, the standard he sets for himself, his love for humanity, and his willingness to sacrifice all for mankind. He always chose to do the right thing when the right thing hurt and when others goaded him to do the popular thing. Superman is an ideal. As much as I hate to admit it, SV is not doing Superman justice.Yep; I think another recent example of this is in "Phantom", where Lana shows up at the Kent Farm to tell Clark she's leaving. That scene was actually well-done, but I noticed one thing that got to me...when she kisses Clark, she's still wearing Lex's wedding ring! That was a bad move, in my opinion.

[HalJordan4184]

Originally posted by xrayvision
But see, I don't want Clark to be brainwashed by Jor-El to become Superman. I absolutely do not want him to go to the FOS and come out as Superman. I hated that idea from the movie. I think it's the worst thing they could do.

What I do want is for Clark and his Kal-El persona seen in Crusade to once again seperate. A good way to do that is to have Clark purposely release that side of him as an ally to a bunch of villians ganging up on him and Kara, villians like Brainiac, Bizarro, Dr. Knox, Zod, Aethyr, Nam-Ek, or a combination of 3 of these villians. Something like Zod, Bizarro & Brainiac vs. Clark & Kara, where Kal-El would help Clark & Kara out would be a neat way to do it. After Clark's team wins, Kara would leave to get acquainted with Earth while Clark and Kal-El would draw up the rules of engagement of a war they would have for the control of his body. After a designated amount of battles, the winner of the final battle would absorb the loser and take control of Clark's body.

I would do this where Clark would start wearing a pre-Superman costume, or a Naman or Kal-El suit, to hide his identity until he sets up the Superman-Clark Kent dual identity and creates the classic Superman suit. The pre-Superman suit would have a yellow reflective (like a mirror) visor very similar to the one the Eradicator wore in the Reign of the Supermen, but it would be part of a headpiece that would go over Clark's head/hair. The visor would cover his eyes. And the black-k seperation would also cause the suit to duplicate so that both Clark & Kal-El would have it on. Kal-El would always wear the suit while Clark would only wear it so long as Kal-El is around. That way, Lex won't be tipped off that there are 2 Namans (or Kal-El's) so that Lex would finally start to believe that Clark is not Naman and doesn't have powers. This would work especially if he sees the both of them at once.

Now, between the battles between Clark & Kal-El, there could be scenes between Clark and the other characters of Smallville and even scenes between Kal-El and the other characters (especially Lex). I would also have Clark visit the FOS occasionally to learn about the types of kryptonite, so he can use certain types to help him out, and perhaps get pointers from Jor-El. He would also learn how to create Kryptonian technology in case he would need to handle kryptonite or do something to a certain lethal form so that it doesn't kill him.

And the battles would be set up so that Clark loses the first one, very badly. Then in the next one, he learns from previous mistakes and though he loses, there is good progress. Then the next one he would get much closer to winning but lose again, perhaps due to his desire to protect humans from natural disasters occuring during the battle. Then the next one would end up in a draw. And the final one would have Clark beating Kal-El.

Such a plan for training would greatly develop Clark and show that his desire to save humans and the morals that guided him throughout his life along with his battle experience against the enemy he has feared for so long (the enemy from within, his Kryptonian heritage that was forced on him by Jor-El) are what make him Superman and that Superman is his own choice for destiny. It will show that Clark is stronger than the will imposed on him by Jor-El and that the ideal son that Jor-El has always wanted (the Kal-El from Crusade) is surpassed by Clark.

Kal-El is the greatest challenge he can face to prepare him against the toughest villians he will face, like Doomsday, Hank Henshaw, Darkseid, Metallo, Bizarro, and the rest. Clark has to hone his battle skills and mentality and change the style he used against Titan in Combat to one that is fueled by the love of humans and Earth. Clark can not fight those toughest of villians like he would fight against a freak, or human and can't use anger or veangeance to fight them like he did with Titan.

To get past Kal-El, he would need those same mental and physical elements. That's why I think he would be the ideal mechanism to Clark's training.

I have some problems with an approach like this. What purpose does a war between Kal-El and Clark serve, especially one that is setup by Clark himself to take place. This would make Clark not only responsible for any damage, pain and suffering that takes place, but it also places the world at risk of having Kal-El win, and take over the world. Clark's winning would not be a foregone conclusion. If it is, it then defeats the whole point of the story.

Secondly, there shouldn't be any training. He doesn't need trained in how to use his powers, he knows how his body works. He knows how his mind works. The only "training" he should need, is education about the world, and learning his place in it. Physical training would actually work against Clark, and how his powers work. The harder, and more physical he gets, the weaker he would end up with frequent repeated efforts.

The only training Clark should undergo, is the training we all get as we grow up. Instructions from our parents, and real life examples of how to work with society. Clark should take this one step further, travel the world, and figure out his place there, all while knowing he is meant to do something great, and helping who he can where he can along the way. When he's completed his journey of self discovery, he can then decide he's best suited to, no pun intended, suit up, and openly show everyone what he can do, and try to inspire us to be better.

[xrayvision]

Originally posted by HalJordan4184
I have some problems with an approach like this. What purpose does a war between Kal-El and Clark serve, especially one that is setup by Clark himself to take place. This would make Clark not only responsible for any damage, pain and suffering that takes place, but it also places the world at risk of having Kal-El win, and take over the world. Clark's winning would not be a foregone conclusion. If it is, it then defeats the whole point of the story.

Secondly, there shouldn't be any training. He doesn't need trained in how to use his powers, he knows how his body works. He knows how his mind works. The only "training" he should need, is education about the world, and learning his place in it. Physical training would actually work against Clark, and how his powers work. The harder, and more physical he gets, the weaker he would end up with frequent repeated efforts.

The only training Clark should undergo, is the training we all get as we grow up. Instructions from our parents, and real life examples of how to work with society. Clark should take this one step further, travel the world, and figure out his place there, all while knowing he is meant to do something great, and helping who he can where he can along the way. When he's completed his journey of self discovery, he can then decide he's best suited to, no pun intended, suit up, and openly show everyone what he can do, and try to inspire us to be better.

Well, instead of using the approach I laid out, they could instead use an approach where it happens accidentally, i.e. Clark getting blasted by a black-k laser (like Lex was in Onyx) thanks to Brainiac who thinks he would have an ally in Clark's other self, only to find out that Kal-El is also against evil, but uses the "ends justify the means" approach. After defeating Brainiac & company, the 2 are left to decide what to do. They can either make up the rules of engagement themselves or have Jor-El as a referee. It would turn out that there would be destruction caused by the battles, but in the end nobody would die as a result of them; something that would not be a foregone conclusion, but Clark would not really have a choice since Kal-El at the start of the training (their battles) would be too much for him to handle & the only way to rid him would be to defeat him.

I'm just not sure how realistic it would be for the Clark Kent we've been presented with in this show to be able to later on kill Doomsday (even though he would also die), battle & survive Darkseid, or go up against guys like Metallo, the Cyborg Superman, or a bunch of other villians several times tougher than anyone he's faced so far without going through a real trial of strength and mentality. If anything would motivate him, it would be the fear of being taken over by his Kal-El side. We've seen what Zod did to Clark and how he couldn't land any offense against him rather than a crystal.

[ClarksNextGF]

I have read a couple very good points in this thread.

This episode was HORRIBLE !!! It's very ironic that this aired the week the writers went on strike - they should all be FIRED!!!!

First of all - this episode was a complete re-run. It's the EXACT story line from the FOW who took Clark's powers in season 1 - EXACT. If THIS is the best the writers can come up with - then, they have no right whining about wanting more money.

Second - YES - Superman is held to a higher moral standard than everyone else. THAT would be WHY he's called SUPERman, and not just Really-fast-I-can-Flyman. He's better than everyone else - THAT's who superman is - THAT is what makes him great, what makes him an icon.

Just because half the population or even EVERYONE is doing something - doesn't make it acceptable or okay. Wrong is wrong, regardless of popularity. Society changes - morals don't.

The only redeeming quality was that it did at least have some consistency. This is the second time that Lana has had super powers and used them to hurt Clark & others. And of course, the little %^**% nympho decides to jump Clark at her first opportunity - Just like before.

However - Clark TOLD Chloe that he was scared to have sex with Lana because he might hurt her - so, there's no reason why he would have been surprised by Chloe knowing, or that Lana would talk to Chloe about something that Clark was obviously talking to her about as well.

Also - Braniac was completely destroyed by Clark, when he brought Zod to Earth - nice how the writers made a huge point about that, then just decide to change it.

[moviefan2k4]

Originally posted by ClarksNextGF

Just because half the population or even EVERYONE is doing something - doesn't make it acceptable or okay. Wrong is wrong, regardless of popularity. Society changes - morals don't.Once again, agreed 100%. It's very sad that in recent years, society has largely embraced violating moral codes which were once considered binding.:(

[NoSupeForYou]

Originally posted by moviefan2k4
Once again, agreed 100%. It's very sad that in recent years, society has largely embraced violating moral codes which were once considered binding.:(

I don't think that they embrace violating them. I think the problem is that they refuse to acknowledge them.

[Another-One]

Who decided these moral codes? The same people who once thought slavery was ok if Im not mistaken.

Times change, sometimes people cant accept that.

[NoSupeForYou]

God did.

[Another-One]

Thats incredibly debatable. Unfortunately not here.

[NoSupeForYou]

I agree. Whether God did is not something anyone can prove. All I'm saying is that is how most religions see it.

[HalJordan4184]

We don't discuss that religiosity stuff, to borrow a word from Firefly, here on Ksite. It's a topic that is too, how shall we say, emotionally charged for some people to carry on civilly(sp). So let's keep religion and politics out of the threads.

[NoSupeForYou]

Sorry, just responding. Nothing would make me happier than to go back to the original idea behind the thread, so here goes.

This episode made a mockery of Clark because they reduced him to nothing more than a normal 20 year old. The whole point is he is not.

Also, he is supposed to become Superman because he chooses to be, not because his high school romance doesn't work out and he needs something to fall back on. That is what episodes like Wrath make it seem like, like his destiny is his fall-back option.

[Brizzle]

Originally posted by xrayvision
You're wrong here. Clark's character at day 1 was something that a viewer could believe would become the future Superman. Episodes like Leech truly showed that. Even though he ran away to Metropolis, when he came back, he started thinking about what he wanted to do. And it was believable because of the way Jor-El approached him. In Shattered, he was the man in charge of protecting everyone from Lionel. Though he failed in completely protecting Lana and Lex, he still made it possible for both to survive. In Perry, without his powers he jumped into Saunders Gorge without knowing what would happen to him. He also risked his life in Hidden, though by then he was already a BDA.

Clark used to be far beyond in his journey towards becoming Superman than what he seems to be now. Earlier on, he would not have made moves on a married woman (see Heat) like he did with Lana in season 6. He did not sit back for Chloe to do all the work and even discover his powers. He went head to head against Lionel with Lex & Chloe and put his own life in danger. He did things against his moral code to help Pete when he was in deep trouble, yet genuinely showed regret for breaking away from his character.

The reason Clark is a joke now is because his brains had to be made to look this way in order for Clana to be possible. He realized back in season 3 that Lana would never be right for him. Yet, Al & Miles wanted to press Clana and went on to do so for 4 more years still. In order to do that, they had to make Clark seem like an idiot and ignore what he specifically stated 4 years ago. I also blame an increase in Chloe's role as an intrusion into Clark's investigating & researching aspects. Ever since she learned his secret, the writers got lazy and didn't feel like having Clark do his share of it anymore, so they turned Chloe into his crutch. In earlier seasons, he used to work with Chloe as an equal. They both did research and played off one another greatly. They have to go back to that formula, and I hope it happens this season. I like what I saw in Chloe in Wrath and would think an equal playing field in investigating between her and Clark would work great.

The reason why Clark is shown to be a p*ssy is because of garbage like Lexana and Clana...i.e. love triangles. For some dumbass reason, having Clark and Lex become enemies over principles wasn't good enough. They had to make it be over Lana and make her be the biggest factor of the end to their friendship. This makes both Clark AND Lex look like moronic schoolboys fighting over the head cheerleader. A very unintelligent & mundane way to write the show. If there was no Clark-Lana-Lex triangle, then Clark could say the hell with Lana and move on. But no, they need to have that triangle and pull Clark into the middle of it and 2 other triangles at the same time (Clark-Chloe-Jimmy & Clark-Lois-Ollie). I hate that more than anything. Instead of having Clark go on to look for interesting things like the zoners or fight against 33.1, they had to slow him down and pull him away from the season arcs just to have him in dumbass love triangles. The same thing happened in season 4 when they brought in Lois. Instead of following up on the incredible ending to season 3, they got giddy like a bunch of 5 year olds and wanted to throw her into everything when they had nothing for her to do, and this wound up causing a season 4 filled with fillers. Instead of having an Indiana Jones style of plot where Clark would go out to seek the stones (which according to some posters here was the original idea of season 4), they had to have him play football just to make it possible for them to have scenes between Clark & Lois. And who could forget the most genius move of all...WITCH LANA aka Isobel? WHAT THE F--- WERE THEY THINKING????

All this & more (Reckoning, Promise, etc) has led to the disaster that is the current Clark.

Didn't read all of that post too much but honeslty Clark makes his own decisions and has held himself back. He is never gone man up, face it. He can't even figure thing for himself Chloe has to help him still. He seems to be regressing more and more.

[Mello Penelo]

Originally posted by HalJordan4184
I have some problems with an approach like this. What purpose does a war between Kal-El and Clark serve, especially one that is setup by Clark himself to take place. This would make Clark not only responsible for any damage, pain and suffering that takes place, but it also places the world at risk of having Kal-El win, and take over the world. Clark's winning would not be a foregone conclusion. If it is, it then defeats the whole point of the story.

Secondly, there shouldn't be any training. He doesn't need trained in how to use his powers, he knows how his body works. He knows how his mind works. The only "training" he should need, is education about the world, and learning his place in it. Physical training would actually work against Clark, and how his powers work. The harder, and more physical he gets, the weaker he would end up with frequent repeated efforts.

The only training Clark should undergo, is the training we all get as we grow up. Instructions from our parents, and real life examples of how to work with society. Clark should take this one step further, travel the world, and figure out his place there, all while knowing he is meant to do something great, and helping who he can where he can along the way. When he's completed his journey of self discovery, he can then decide he's best suited to, no pun intended, suit up, and openly show everyone what he can do, and try to inspire us to be better.

Not to mention it's stupid.

[NoSupeForYou]

This whole train, not train thing between Clark and Jor-el is stupid. It's like the whole "shoot the rabbit, shoot the duck" bit between Daffy and Bugs. Maybe Jor-el needs to tell him not to train.

Seriously though, first they told us that Clark and Lana couldn't be together because knowing his secret was deadly to her, but now they are saying their relationship didn't work because he kept it from her. They need to make up their minds whether it's knowing or not knowing that is the problem because with this whole try at it again approach they are contradicting themselves.

[xrayvision]

Originally posted by Mello Penelo
Not to mention it's stupid.

Well, that's your opinion, but I am very sure that showing him train and having such an approach to doing it would be a million times better than almost anything we've seen.

It would end the complaints of all the following:

-Clark being a BDA
-How Lex would easily know Clark is Superman
-Clark's regression
-Lack of action in the show
-Poor fight scenes
-Lack of mythos (though season 7 has gotten better on this)
-Lex being shown to actually be evil and an MB like Lionel

And unlike the idiotic training in the movie, it would take place outside the FOS, with Clark only occasionally going there for advice and knowledge of things that may help him in battle.

[TampaVille]

Originally posted by xrayvision
Well, that's your opinion, but I am very sure that showing him train and having such an approach to doing it would be a million times better than almost anything we've seen.

It would end the complaints of all the following:

-Clark being a BDA
-How Lex would easily know Clark is Superman
-Clark's regression
-Lack of action in the show
-Poor fight scenes
-Lack of mythos (though season 7 has gotten better on this)
-Lex being shown to actually be evil and an MB like Lionel

And unlike the idiotic training in the movie, it would take place outside the FOS, with Clark only occasionally going there for advice and knowledge of things that may help him in battle.

Hi x-ray. I'm a little confused by your post. How would showing Clark training end complaints about all those things? For example, I don't see how Clark training has anything to do with Lex being evil. Just a little confused.

[DestinyAw8s]

Originally posted by NoSupeForYou
This whole train, not train thing between Clark and Jor-el is stupid. It's like the whole "shoot the rabbit, shoot the duck" bit between Daffy and Bugs. Maybe Jor-el needs to tell him not to train.

Seriously though, first they told us that Clark and Lana couldn't be together because knowing his secret was deadly to her, but now they are saying their relationship didn't work because he kept it from her. They need to make up their minds whether it's knowing or not knowing that is the problem because with this whole try at it again approach they are contradicting themselves.
I know, right? You would think that he would at least explain why he didn't tell her. Let her know that he was afraid for her to know. That his fears were founded when he did tell her and she died bcause of it. That he sacraficed his father in order for her to live again. I would think, unless she's a totally self-centered idiot, she would understand, and accept, his reasoning behind lying to her. And please don't tell me he wants to protect her, that's what got him into trouble in the first place.

I don't know about Clark. His brain seems to work, but in all the wrong directions.

[NoSupeForYou]

Originally posted by DestinyAw8s

I don't know about Clark. His brain seems to work, but in all the wrong directions.

Actually, only his second brain seems to work. The little guy has been in charge pretty much since the beginning of the show. Only time the one upstairs was in charge was when he was away from Lana.

[Mello Penelo]

Originally posted by HalJordan4184
I would rather Clark undergo no training. Nowhere else, except the Chris Reeve movies, did Clark undergo some Fortress of Solitude training. Even there, we don't get actually training so he can be Superman, but learning sciences, languages, about Krypton, and his birth worlds heritage. He learns about his own powers, and where they come from. He doesn't learn how to deal with Super villains, and stop disasters.

Id' much rather this Clark took his own route, and went the way of Byrne's Man of Steel Clark. Travelling the world, educating himself about Earth, it's people, cultures, and everything else. Seeing the terrible things people can do, and also the good they can accomplish. After seeing these things first hand, he decides the best way to help people, is to put on a costume, and become someone who helps in only the way he can. It would be much mroe poignant for this, and actually ties much better into the other characters pushing of him to be a hero, rather than pushing him to go get brainwashed by Jor-El. One of the best lines in all of comicdom is in Superman for All Seasons. Lana is narrating the fourth chapter, and she makes a comment like, to understand the man in the cape with all the amazing powers who saves people, I realized I only had to understand Clark.

Same here. But everyone is SO convinced the movie is the right way to do the show, we probably won't get what we want.

I mean, if Clark has to run off to the Fortress and have every single piece of Kryptonian knowledge downloaded into his brain as his training, it totally defeats the purpose of fighting every single meteor freak, Zod and Bizzaro. If his training is to be a bookworm, no wonder Clark ends up a dork.


Originally posted by xrayvision
Well, that's your opinion, but I am very sure that showing him train and having such an approach to doing it would be a million times better than almost anything we've seen.

It would end the complaints of all the following:

-Clark being a BDA
-How Lex would easily know Clark is Superman
-Clark's regression
-Lack of action in the show
-Poor fight scenes
-Lack of mythos (though season 7 has gotten better on this)
-Lex being shown to actually be evil and an MB like Lionel

And unlike the idiotic training in the movie, it would take place outside the FOS, with Clark only occasionally going there for advice and knowledge of things that may help him in battle.

I was talking about the Kal-El war thing. It's dumb. It would serve no purpose in the show. A bunch of people would die and Clark would be like, I killed them, but Kal-El made me do it!

[xrayvision]

Originally posted by TampaVille
Hi x-ray. I'm a little confused by your post. How would showing Clark training end complaints about all those things? For example, I don't see how Clark training has anything to do with Lex being evil. Just a little confused.

Well, if Lex actually sees Kal-El, his destined mortal enemy according to the legend of Naman, I think that would end the nice guy charade and really accelerate the appearance of the evil Lex Luthor that we are all awaiting.

As for the rest, Clark's BDA days would end abruptly in order for him to beat his Kal-El side. And by having both Kal-El (who would be in a costume) and Clark around for people like Lex, Lois, Perry White, etc to see both at the same time, it would make them later (when Clark appears as Superman) think that Clark and Superman would be 2 different people. Clark would truly no longer regress because the only way to beat Kal-El is to get serious and start thinking like DC's greatest hero traditionally has. The fight scenes would be stellar and there would be plenty of action in both the fight scenes and in episodes where they're not fighting one another (episodes where Kal-El interacts with other characters like Lex, Lois, etc). And they could really tie into the mythos by getting back to the caves and revealing more things, such as stuff about the first Kryptonian to visit Earth and going further into Lex's interpretation of the legend and poisoning the minds of others who think Naman is the hero. And they could also have Clark learn about all sorts of kryptonite, and learn about the Eradicator (something I have been dying to see on this show).

This is the way I'm writing my fanfics, and from the people who've read them so far, I got some pretty decent feedback.


Originally posted by Mello Penelo
I mean, if Clark has to run off to the Fortress and have every single piece of Kryptonian knowledge downloaded into his brain as his training, it totally defeats the purpose of fighting every single meteor freak, Zod and Bizzaro. If his training is to be a bookworm, no wonder Clark ends up a dork.

I'm one of those who doesn't want this. I hated that approach in the movie. I didn't like how they basically said Jor-El creates Superman. Clark and what he's learned on Earth should create Superman. My idea allows this to happen.


Originally posted by Mello Penelo
I was talking about the Kal-El war thing. It's dumb. It would serve no purpose in the show. A bunch of people would die and Clark would be like, I killed them, but Kal-El made me do it!

It would serve plenty of purposes. And nobody would die from actions caused by Kal-El. Remember, Kal-El is not evil. He would save people, but if a supervillian like Brainiac started attacking him, he would desert anyone needing to be rescued to stop Brainiac--showing a great distinction between him and Clark/Superman because Clark would not leave anyone in danger stranded as we have classically seen in Superman comics, shows, and movies. Clark could clean up after Kal-El in such scenes and save those people who Kal-El deserts when Kal-El leaves to stop the supervillian he's after. This part would also "train" Clark by getting him used to non-stop emergencies/disasters that he will later deal with as Superman.

And something else that I didn't mention is that this will be his way of spiting Jor-El and forcing Jor-El to accept him as-is, because it will be him in the end defeating Kal-El, who would represent everything Jor-El has forced onto him since season 2 and also represents Jor-El's desired destiny for Clark. It will be a great way of showing (unlike the movies did) that Clark's destiny as the greatest hero (Superman) as not being a product of Jor-El or his will, but a product of Clark's own desires to save the world and mankind. It would be Clark's way of getting over his fear that he's had in him since season 2; the fear of losing his own identity if he were to live up to 100% of his potential (the very thing in my opinion that's keeping himself from flying now).

[Dor el]

Originally posted by NoSupeForYou
Seriously though, first they told us that Clark and Lana couldn't be together because knowing his secret was deadly to her, but now they are saying their relationship didn't work because he kept it from her. They need to make up their minds whether it's knowing or not knowing that is the problem because with this whole try at it again approach they are contradicting themselves.

Maybe, though I doubt it, the writers were thinking deeper than we give them credit for. The old Lana does seem to be dead, or at least badly, maybe irrevocably, damaged and that is in large part due to her relationship with Clark. Not that Clark set out to hurt her or to change her and not that he even did anything to cause such a turnaround, but I think that Lex would probably never have gone after Lana or even noticed her if not for the Clark/Lana relationship snuggling up to the Clark/Lex relationship. Lex himself admitted that he come to want everything Clark had. Namely, Lana. I think Lana's involvement with Lex was the beginning of the fall from which one can't recover with out much effort and time and desire. Yeah, Clark broke up with Lana. Big deal. Breakups happen every day. People get over them everyday. Even when scars sometimes persist. However, when Lana ran to Lex to hurt Clark, to avoid being alone, to receive support or for whatever reason she turned to Lex, Lana herself set the destructive ball in motion. Lex piled on and manipulated her and destroyed at least a part of her. He never missed an opportunity to rub his "Lana victory" in Clark's face. Did Lex love Lana? Maybe somewhere in his heart a part of him loved her, but Lex's heart always belonged to Lex and what Lex wants. Lana never had a chance. Her experience had been with a very generous loving sacrificing Clark; not with the ruthlessness that is Lex.

Clark's secret is a large part of who Clark is, so indirectly his secret impacted what has become of Lana although maybe not in the way Clark feared. The sweet innocent girl Clark fell in love with is nowhere to be seen at the moment. He is still in love with the perception of Lana he created in his own mind. She has told him before that she was concerned about his reaction when he realized that the picture of who he thinks Lana is is at best incomplete. Now, Clark is being forced to really take a good look at who Lana is now.

I know this is a bit off thread topic, but the mockery to Clark topic hurts too much.

[HalJordan4184]

Originally posted by xrayvision
And something else that I didn't mention is that this will be his way of spiting Jor-El and forcing Jor-El to accept him as-is, because it will be him in the end defeating Kal-El, who would represent everything Jor-El has forced onto him since season 2 and also represents Jor-El's desired destiny for Clark. It will be a great way of showing (unlike the movies did) that Clark's destiny as the greatest hero (Superman) as not being a product of Jor-El or his will, but a product of Clark's own desires to save the world and mankind. It would be Clark's way of getting over his fear that he's had in him since season 2; the fear of losing his own identity if he were to live up to 100% of his potential (the very thing in my opinion that's keeping himself from flying now).

This approach however, doesn't show Clark stepping up of his own volition. He only steps up to stop Kal-El, not because he wants to be a hero. In order for Clark to be hero, he needs to act out of a simple desire to help people, not to stop some super menace. The whole Kal-El side, Jor-El destiny has ruined this on SMallville. Smallville's Clark is literally being given no choice in the matter, and as a result, is a crappy role model and hero.

[xrayvision]

I still think it's possible show that he helps people by his simple desire to do so by clearly expressing his desire for wanting to get rid of Kal-El as a selfless act rather than just trying to prevent himself from being taken over by Kal-El's ideals when they re-merge. By this I mean, his desire to win would be based on his motivation to make it so that the world does not have to be ruled with strength as the message in Rosetta said. In that episode, Clark clearly showed he did not want to become a ruler. By having him be selfless and blame himself one last time for the existence of Kal-El and think more about the humans of the world being forced to be subjected to Kal-El's rules, he can show himself to want to save the world by putting aside his own happiness, and then after actually beating Kal-El, he would come to a realization that helping people is his happiness and that's what gives him the greatest reason to live and keep on going.

[NoSupeForYou]

Knowing the writers they would turn it into a love triangle between Clark, Lana and Kal so I would forget that idea if I were you. They can't get the simple things right, I doubt they would the more complicated ones.

[xrayvision]

Well, if they'd be consistent with the way they portrayed him in Crusade, then he wouldn't give a crap about anything but what his goal is (as seen when Martha showed him the picture with Chloe and Lana).

[bobser]

I just wanted to chime in and say this episode was HORRIBLE in terms of writing.

Rosenbaum stepped up his dramatic side quite a bit, thankfully, and likely to cancel out some of the horrible writing.

First, let's insult the fans with the most convoluted plot-intro in the history of Smallville, eh writers?

Does the combination of Zeus, along with fate, have a vendetta against Clark?

Clark is happily galloping with Lana when, oh noes!, kryptonite in a field! Cue Zeus, stage...heaven. Zzzzap! Power transfer, we have a good episode?! No, you don't. That's just sloppy writing, writers.

Next, let's talk about learning curves. I'll forget about the "fun" moment where Clark and Lana cause a small quake, perhaps endangering people.

Learning Curves:

Clark Kent: Kryptonian powers for 20 years...after having everyone from Chloe to Pa' Kent coaching him, can:

1. Do basics (run fast, fire eyes, yada)
2. Push guys 30 feet to defeat them.

Lana Lang: Kryptonian Powers for 2 days...no coaching!:

1. Do basics (run fast, heat vision, super-hearing mastery)
2. Kick at Clark with super-karate and flips, which would apparently take Clark fortress training to learn...

So basically, the message here is that Clark is morally questionable, is really, really slow and can't do much without someone...ah, forget it.

Writers of this episode. Please, for all things good, don't insult us like that again.

[carina]

I think most of the things Lana said were right,if Clark wasn`t so naive as having Lex for friend, lot of bad things wouldn`t happend...Remember those moments when Lana was left alone becauce of Clark excuses...I think all things Lex did to her left some effects on her behaving...give her chance!Only thing I didn`t like in this episode is that Lex kissed her...that shouldn`t happend.I approve all things she said and done...she really had right this time.Clana forever!

[xrayvision]

Originally posted by carina
I think most of the things Lana said were right,if Clark wasn`t so naive as having Lex for friend, lot of bad things wouldn`t happend...Remember those moments when Lana was left alone becauce of Clark excuses...I think all things Lex did to her left some effects on her behaving...give her chance!Only thing I didn`t like in this episode is that Lex kissed her...that shouldn`t happend.I approve all things she said and done...she really had right this time.Clana forever!

Lana was also friends with Lex over the years. She also accepted many more favors from Lex than Clark ever did.

Lana could have left. Nobody was pointing a gun at her to make her jump to Lex. As a matter of fact they tried to convince her otherwise. Chloe told her that Lex is a predator.

Lana has her own brain and got herself into her mess. She accepted Lex covering up a murder she (as Isobel) committed. She basically allowed Lex to own her by having him do this...the same reason why Jonathan taught Clark not to take gifts from the Luthors (due to the events in Lineage).

[free_emily]

She also accepted many more favors from Lex than Clark ever did.
This strikes me as a bit of hyperbole. And also irrelevant. Taking a gift from someone does not mean you are obligated to be their punching bag (literally or figuratively).


Lana has her own brain and got herself into her mess.
Would you ask a woman who was beaten by her husband why she didn't use her own brain to get herself out of the "mess"? From where I sit, Lex had been lying to Lana, manipulating her, emotionally abusing her for more than a season. There are certainly points when she could have made other choices, but it does not take a literal gun to keep someone in an essentially captive state. Domestic abuse creates complicated emotional binds.

I watched Lana/Lex relationship develop and I cringed a bit. My gut reaction to the treatment she accepted from Lex was to dismiss her as pathetic and weak. C'mon, a tough/strong girl wouldn't have put up with that cr@p. But the sad truth is that it's not just poor stupid women who suffer abuse. Intelligent, educated, financially independent women who have the resources to leave still don't. Are they just asking for it? Do they deserve it because they don't stop it?

It's easy to dismiss victims of abuse as somehow culpable. And convenient. Assigning blame keeps the ugliness at arms length.

Which is not to say that what Lex did to Lana somehow excuses kidnapping, torture, b&e, that sort of thing. But I do think it's possible to have empathy for her circumstances without excusing her subsequent mistakes.

It's strange to me the so many people insist on painting Lana's situation in such black and white terms. Lana is evil. Full stop. I just don't see it.

[carina]

Well if we all gonna quote things that Lana and Clark did we`ll come nowhere, they all made mistakes with Lex and that is true...but I always feel sorry for Lana remebering those episodes(5 seasons) when Clark had excuses for leaving her , ok now she knows his secret and what soo tagicaly happend?She understands him , I think she loves him, but she has unfinished issues with Lex, that`s completly for understanding as we remember what Luthors did to her(don`t forget on the wedding day what Lionel said to Lana)...and Isobel, that woman wanted to kill her! As we talk about Lex-Clark ,Lana -Lex situacions, both Lana and Clark end up being dupe...I think if Lana can only forget what Luthors did to her and be happy with Clark -that kind of end of Smallville would be fine for me...

[HalJordan4184]

While Lana may be a victim of abuse, as you said, it doesn't excuse her actions.

However, Lana freely chose to stay with Lex, under threats, and somehow imagines she was with Lex Luthor, not becuase she chose to be, but somehow to save Clark, before she ever knew anything about the whole situation. Lana firmly entrenched herself in the abuse, after realizing what Lex was, and what he was capable of, just to get to the bottom of her own questions and desires regarding Clark, and the Kryptonians.

[Dor el]

^^^^ Yep. Lana is the culmination of her own choices.

[NoSupeForYou]

What's really stupid is that she had a gun on him earlier in the season and didn't pull the trigger then. Suddenly, she gets super powers and that makes it okay to try and kill him? It's not consistent.
Yeah, I know she supposedly wants to stop his evil plans, but we all know it's not about that, but her own personal revenge.

[moviefan2k4]

Lana's couldn't kill Lex in "Kara", because he was pulling the "innocent act". As written, Lana honestly wants to believe the best about people, but in her mind, Lex flip-flops more than anyone she knows. One moment, he seems vengeful and determined; the next, he's a selfless bystander.

In truth, Lex knows Lana's mentality all too well, and he plays on that, manipulating her emotions. When he confronted her in Shanghai, he knew Lana could never committ murder on her own...and so, he resorted to playing the "helpless" card.

[silverstreak]

i thought this episode was the worst of the season so far.

[kryptonaidxh]

:) :o yes, actually I´m of the same opinion, even Clark looked like a stupid, and like Lana´s apologizing everything she did.
Lana looked like a crazy evil b**ch.
the only characters I liked were Lois, Chloe, Grant, and Lionel, even Lex liked more than Clark.:o :p :)

[NoSupeForYou]

This was the worst episode since the Isobel arc done by the guy from the Supergirl movie. Think he's got an obsession with witches?

[xrayvision]

Originally posted by free_emily
This strikes me as a bit of hyperbole. And also irrelevant. Taking a gift from someone does not mean you are obligated to be their punching bag (literally or figuratively).


Would you ask a woman who was beaten by her husband why she didn't use her own brain to get herself out of the "mess"? From where I sit, Lex had been lying to Lana, manipulating her, emotionally abusing her for more than a season. There are certainly points when she could have made other choices, but it does not take a literal gun to keep someone in an essentially captive state. Domestic abuse creates complicated emotional binds.

I watched Lana/Lex relationship develop and I cringed a bit. My gut reaction to the treatment she accepted from Lex was to dismiss her as pathetic and weak. C'mon, a tough/strong girl wouldn't have put up with that cr@p. But the sad truth is that it's not just poor stupid women who suffer abuse. Intelligent, educated, financially independent women who have the resources to leave still don't. Are they just asking for it? Do they deserve it because they don't stop it?

It's easy to dismiss victims of abuse as somehow culpable. And convenient. Assigning blame keeps the ugliness at arms length.

Which is not to say that what Lex did to Lana somehow excuses kidnapping, torture, b&e, that sort of thing. But I do think it's possible to have empathy for her circumstances without excusing her subsequent mistakes.

It's strange to me the so many people insist on painting Lana's situation in such black and white terms. Lana is evil. Full stop. I just don't see it.

I'm not saying she deserves what happened to her. What I'm saying is that she got herself into it. She had her best friend & roommate at the time, Chloe, warn her that Lex is a predator in Fragile. She had more hints between Fragile and Wither (the episode where she herself had doubts) what being in Lex's world was all about (heck in Sneeze he had a camera in her room as she undressed). She could have left. She even knew it was Lex who set up the hostage situation back in Mortal. She saw Lex's reaction in Commencement and how he cared more for the stone she had than for her.

And despite all that happened, Lex was willing to get out of her life and let her live however she wanted without even caring about the $10 million she took.

My reply was in response for Lana telling Clark that if he hadn't been dumb enough to have Lex as a friend that a lot of things could have been avoided. What she's doing is blaming Clark for her problems. She went to Lex. She didn't deserve what happened to her, but she willingly went to him. How the hell could she blame Clark for that? Clark warned her about Lex in Fade and several times throughout season 6. She was also Lex's friend, so how can she blame Clark and not herself too? What right does she have to tell Clark who he can be friends with? In that case, Clark should blame her for bringing Adam & Jason into his life, since both of them attacked his family later on.

Many people get messed up with domestic abuse, but not many go after the aggressor AND other innocents (like Lois) after the aggressor decides to leave them alone.

You have to look at the big picture. It's not only Lana trying to get revenge on Lex. It's the innocents that are getting caught in the crossfire that makes her evil. She has no concern for them.

Here are some lines from Memoria that certainly apply to Lana today:

Clark: Maybe, Lex. Or maybe you'd make it worse. You're always telling me how you don't want to turn into your father, and I truly believe that. But the more you two go at each other, the more like him you become. And the more people get hurt.

Lex: I will never become my father. I would never sacrifice you or anybody I cared about to bring him down.


That part in bold really tells the story. I was hoping that Al/Miles would have made Lex's progression to evil be based on the more he & Lionel go at it the more evil Lex gets back in season 4 to show Lex becoming evil, but unfortunately, they failed there and made it be more about Lana. But this does seem to be the case with Lana. The more she tries to do to Lex in getting her revenge, the more like him she becomes. And like Lex did in Memoria, she will also deny that she will never become like Lex and sacrifice those she cares about to bring Lex down. Whether or not that actually happens remains to be seen. Perhaps she will be saved before it happens, but I think she will definitely get to the edge of where she can no longer return.

[Mello Penelo]

Originally posted by NoSupeForYou
This was the worst episode since the Isobel arc done by the guy from the Supergirl movie. Think he's got an obsession with witches?

Francois something. And in the commentary, he didn't even know Kristin's name. He kept calling her Lana and Kristin didn't pay attention.

But in all the commentaries she's done, she's always acted aloof.

[moviefan2k4]

"Supergirl" was directed by Jeannot Szwarc.

[Mello Penelo]

That's what I meant. I haven't seen Spell in a long time.

[Smokethatkryptonite]

Originally posted by carina
I think most of the things Lana said were right,if Clark wasn`t so naive as having Lex for friend, lot of bad things wouldn`t happend...Remember those moments when Lana was left alone becauce of Clark excuses...I think all things Lex did to her left some effects on her behaving...give her chance!Only thing I didn`t like in this episode is that Lex kissed her...that shouldn`t happend.I approve all things she said and done...she really had right this time.Clana forever!

Lana had no right with what she did. She could have killed Lois. She threatened Grant I mean I hate Grant and want him to die but that doesn't mean what she did was right,she tried to kill Lex. Lex can not be blamed. Lana did what she did because she chose to. And why should Lana get after Clark for being friends with Lex. She's the one that was sleeping with Lex and that's when he was more evil then good. As opposed to when Lex and Clark where friends when Lex was generally good with shades of gray

[Shadar]

It seems we keep forgetting that Clark is an extraterrestrial with innate powers that eclipse anything human. He has great self-control most of the time, but there are moments when that would not be possible.

What's so totally cool is that he thinks like a human, and he experiences human emotions. He's truly human inside. He also tries to live by human values, and given he's not divine, he makes mistakes. Given the horrible, life-threatening, emotionally twisted situations he gets put into all the time, even if he is far better at making decisions than most people, he'll still make more mistakes than other people. But he never loses his humanity.

For someone with his power, who could do just about anything, it's friggin' amazing and honorable, in my book, that he attempts to tie himself to human values. He could rule as a god like his father intended.

Which is the wonder of Superman.

But none of that eliminates the fact that it is an issue when you mix Kryptonians and Homo Sapiens in very physical ways. Sex in particular. Either Clark gets depowered or his partner gets powered or else the sex is a real problem. One can apply similar logic to Kara, although with different challenges that I leave for your imagination. Logically, I can't see any other way to resolve this.

Also, on someone's post about only 10% of people having premarital sex (the comment was tied to Clark's lack of morality), I submit a recent article in the Chicago Tribune on research on that subject:

"More than nine out of 10 Americans, men and women alike, have had premarital sex, a new study says. The high rates extend even to women born in the 1940s, challenging perceptions that people were more chaste in the past.“This is reality-check research,” said the study’s author, Lawrence Finer. “Premarital sex is normal behavior for the vast majority of Americans, and has been for decades.”

Lets not dump on Clark for this one... he's just trying to be human.

Shadar

[moviefan2k4]

Originally posted by Shadar
Also, on someone's post about only 10% of people having premarital sex (the comment was tied to Clark's lack of morality), I submit a recent article in the Chicago Tribune on research on that subject:

"More than nine out of 10 Americans, men and women alike, have had premarital sex, a new study says. The high rates extend even to women born in the 1940s, challenging perceptions that people were more chaste in the past.“This is reality-check research,” said the study’s author, Lawrence Finer. “Premarital sex is normal behavior for the vast majority of Americans, and has been for decades.”

Lets not dump on Clark for this one... he's just trying to be human. I once heard the following saying; it's a bit of an oxymoron, but its made me think a lot more about surveys and such...

"Over eighty percent of all statistics are lies.":p

[NoSupeForYou]

I prefer the classic: "There are lies, damn lies, and statistics."

Actually, somebody recently reviewed polls/ surveys that asked people how many sexual partners they had. When they wen't over the numbers they realized that things just didn't add up. Basically, all the participants were liars. The men exaggerated, the women undercounted.

This doesn't even factor in the problem of weighted questions. If you ask someone whether they were a loser and waited until marriage to have sex they're like to give you a different answer than if you ask if they committed an evil act by having sex before marriage.

You can get whatever result you want by simpling phrasing the question a certain way.

[Dor el]

Yes, it is very easy to skew research results. I suspect it happens all the time in polls when researchers are looking for a particular answer or support for a particular position.

[Jaded Wolf]

I don't know if it is disgraceful to Clark but I will admit that I was not too pleased that Lana had full knowledge of how to use these powers. It just seems to me like the writers are thinking that everyone else will be powerful except for Clark because he is not Superman yet. It drives me nuts because by now after seven years Clark should be almost unleashed. Instead he is still on the leash trying to get the stake out of the ground on which his chain is attached. I can almost understand the not flying thing but this is just totally ridiculous that a non-Kryptonian would be able to quickly adapt. :mad:

[Shadar]

I think we are pretty unanimous on the subject of Clark's use of his abilities. He should have figured it out long ago.

It didn't bother me that Kara had them all figured out when she woke up -- she'd been raised Kryptonian, even though she grew up without any powers on Krypton -- they only came with the yellow sun. Presumably she could have been trained in their use during field trips to yellow suns (given her father had planned to send her to Earth for some time).

It's less plausible but still within reach that Zoners would have the right training. They were Kryptonian adults before going to to the Zone.

But it's completely implausible that humans, meteor freaks or 'instant adopters' like Lana or Jonathon or anyone else would have a clue. They'd be like fish flopping in the bottom of a boat, unable to even stand without launching themselves fifty feet off the ground with every step.

Unless we consider one possibility -- that Kryptonian strength and nervous systems respond in non-linear fashion under a yellow sun. At the risk of geeking this out, here's the logic:

Our human strength works essentially declining non-linear -- which means that it takes more or less twice the effort to lift 20 pounds as it does 10, but seemingly a lot more than twice the effort to lift 80 pounds instead of 40, and so forth. It's very hard, even painful, to approach our strength limits.

If that was true of a Kryptonian, then most things they handle in day to day contact would seem far more fragile than a raw egg feels to us.

Perhaps, instead, their strength is increasing non-linear. By that I mean he could exert himself like we do with lighter weights, but when he starts approaching the limit of human strength and has to strain, then that limit is never reached. That means 40 pounds would feel the same to him as it does to us, and he'd start to strain to lift 200 pounds, but he would only strain a little more to lift 2000 pounds and a little more yet to lift 200,000 pounds and so forth.

That would explain why casual contact (hugs, handshakes, fights, etc. etc. wouldn't be moments of lethal danger for humans, especially when he was emotional. He'd have to actually try to hurt someone.

That's opposed to walking around like he's in a crowded china shop, having to concentrate on touching everything so very gingerly. Sure he could learn to do that, but it's weird way to live. Holding someone in his arms would be like us holding a baby bird in our hand -- a very slight miscalculation in our grip and ribs would snap. He'd have to move and touch things with gingerly and with great forethought.

If it was increasingly non-linear, then he'd live and act and move just like us. Until he had to use his strength in very deliberate ways.

Also, if Kryptonian strength was increasingly non-linear with effort, that could also explain why females seem to overuse their strength at first. Women (especially those with the physical build of a supermodel) are going to use a higher percentage of their natural strength in day to day tasks that a man who is built as athletically as Clark. That higher percentage, when they suddenly have Kryptonian muscles, gets them into that non-linear range more quickly than it would a man who is used to holding back. It's hard to control one's strength in the non-linear region.

Anyway... I'm searching for logic here. That might be a fool's errand. But I can't help but approach the Superman mythology with a science fiction bent, rather than treating it as simple magic.

Shadar

[kryptonaidxh]

:( :rotfl: yes, all the Clana scenes sucked!.
the opening credits well could be presenting Clark like this;:

"special Clark acting as Lana´s pet"

:lol: :lol:

[AliciaBaker]

It took one season to clark to be able to control his abilities and Lana just half day... that's the biggest mockery to Clark.

:\

[NoSupeForYou]

Maybe she went to the FOS and Jor-el trained her since Clark has failed so miserably.:p