Who's father are you?

[xrayvision]

That scene between Lex & Lionel was awesome. I remember myankskent and I discussed last week that they eventually have to bring that up and it seems like now's the time. I wonder what Lex will do now?

[MarkAllan22]

Lionel has to be killed by the hands of Lex. There is no other way for Lionel to die.

[Runestone]

That was a great faceoff between Lex and Lionel. It's like their roles have reversed with Lionel giving the moral speeches and Lex denying that he's as bad as he is.

[xrayvision]

That was one of my favorite scenes of the episode. Great, absolutely great!!

[Crispin Glover]

Yes, it would be fitting for Lex to kill Lionel. I'm kind of shocked that Lionel has been on the show for so long. As much as I like John Glover I think this season should be the last for Lionel. All of the other adults are gone.

[CeeJ]

Originally posted by MarkAllan22
Lionel has to be killed by the hands of Lex. There is no other way for Lionel to die.
why does lionel have to die - i mean, other than the basic fact that we all must meet our end sometimes - am i missing something?

[Azurewrath]

Because in the comics, Lionel is dead.

I honestly think some people who die are going to stay alive, and the other way around. I think last episode(With Warrior Angel) Kind of proved that. The whole idea, hinting about people being mad that things dont stay true to comic book nature.

Lionel could always fake his death, or something.

[xrayvision]

Originally posted by CeeJ
why does lionel have to die - i mean, other than the basic fact that we all must meet our end sometimes - am i missing something?

They've been hinting at it since season 3 between Louis (another temporary personality of Lex's) saying that he killed his father because his father was always putting him down and how Lionel killed his parents and the parallel they've created between him & Lex.

But I think the loss of Lionel would be a huge loss to the show if they will have an 8th season (which Lex won't be in).

[Alexander III]

Lex shoulda watched him die in the mansion in the first or second season.

[xrayvision]

No way. Then we would have missed out on all that great stuff in season 3. I loved that stuff. The montage at the end of Covenant would have never happened.

[DarkChilde]

Originally posted by MarkAllan22
Lionel has to be killed by the hands of Lex. There is no other way for Lionel to die.

Like father like son... Lionwl killed his parents and Lex will do the same.

Lex did says he learned to handle women from Lionel. And we know he has learned many more devious things from him.

[faz]

As much as I love the show and the character of Lionel, I think Lionel should meet his maker before the end of the season as well, but more than that, I really think this should be the last season. I've mentioned this a few times before, but I would really rather SV end this season and go out on a high note than try to pull a Lost and extend it for another crappy season. I mean, how much more can you do with Clark before he becomes Superman, short of chronicling his entire ten years of training in the FOS? Not to mention the speculation that other cast members are looking to move on next season (besides MR), which would really suck (well maybe not KK, she's a good actress, but TPTB have been writing her character in a loop for the past six years and it's getting a little old). If they do have an 8th season and it turns out to be good I would love it, but let's face it, this show has a set ending to it and the more they delay it, the more they chance turning out a multitude of crappy episodes. Wouldn't be the first time a show had taken the series just a little too far.

[xrayvision]

I would like it if in future episodes, Lex follows Clark & Lionel and spies on them. Maybe that's how he will learn of the term kryptonite.


Originally posted by faz
As much as I love the show and the character of Lionel, I think Lionel should meet his maker before the end of the season as well, but more than that, I really think this should be the last season. I've mentioned this a few times before, but I would really rather SV end this season and go out on a high note than try to pull a Lost and extend it for another crappy season. I mean, how much more can you do with Clark before he becomes Superman, short of chronicling his entire ten years of training in the FOS? Not to mention the speculation that other cast members are looking to move on next season (besides MR), which would really suck (well maybe not KK, she's a good actress, but TPTB have been writing her character in a loop for the past six years and it's getting a little old). If they do have an 8th season and it turns out to be good I would love it, but let's face it, this show has a set ending to it and the more they delay it, the more they chance turning out a multitude of crappy episodes. Wouldn't be the first time a show had taken the series just a little too far.

I say forget about 10 years of training. That was a stupid plot used by the movie. I think they should have Clark get his training done in 1 season by making my avatar become reality (Clark vs. Kal-El). There would be plenty of stuff with that to occupy a season. But it would have been best had they done that while Lex is still on the show (because Lex becoming obsessed by Kal-El/Naman would make an awesome plot).

[chantal]

Wasn't it a little strange that Lex would say "protecting" Clark. Why would an simple farm boy need protecting? Did Lex both give away to Lionel some of his knowledge of Clark and too much knowledge of Lionel's activities?

Unless he was referring to the fact that Lionel isn't taking any action against Lana. Lex could view that as protecting Clark, since Lionel would have no other good reason to protect the woman who not only almost killed him, but tried to get his son executed for murder.

[xrayvision]

It's obvious Lex knows Clark is an alien. He can't prove it, but he knows it.

[chantal]

But wasn't it risky letting Lionel know, not only about his knowledge of Clark, but about Lionel protecting Clark? Because it would have been more useful to Lex to let Lionel go on covering for Clark. Lex could have picked up some useful info that way.

[LexLuv180]

I love Lionel, the show wouldn't be the same without him.

I loved the line too. Lex is obviously jealous as hell. he always wanted his father growing up, and now senses Clark not only had the perfect family before, but now the father he didn't have.

[xrayvision]

Haha, Clark has/had 3 fathers while Lex basically has none. I did think that Lex was right in a way. Too bad Lionel doesn't have Clark's optimism to try to save Lex.

[msleggie]

posted by Runestone: That was a great faceoff between Lex and Lionel. It's like their roles have reversed with Lionel giving the moral speeches and Lex denying that he's as bad as he is.


This is so true! Lex has really gone off the deep end, especially with the obession with the women in Clark's life and I'm glad Lionel pointed that out and the fact that Lex has gone beyond what a Luthor would do. This was a great scene between those two, but it also made me see that maybe Lex is the one that kills Lionel...Maybe like in Gladiator when the son killed his father (Ceaser)...who knows.

[xrayvision]

I have no doubt that Lex will kill Lionel.

[Dor el]

Originally posted by xrayvision
It's obvious Lex knows Clark is an alien. He can't prove it, but he knows it.


You think so? Why exactly? 'Cause on SV rarely are people aware of the obvious. They're all obtunded. Maybe Lex is just feeling a bit displaced as Lionel's favorite. Granted, he probably should know something is up with Clark.....but I would not be surprised if he does not know. If lex does know, I sure hope Clark can find one of those mind whammy S things Zorel used on Kara to make her forget that he had just accosted her beloved Aunt Lara.

[xrayvision]

They have been hinting at this since Exile. Louis, who was really part of Lex's mind (his dark side) killed his father because he was always putting him down (like Lionel did and continues to do). Later on in season 3, we got wind that Lionel killed his own parents to start Luthorcorp. Lex needs to seriously commit a cold blooded murder to kickstart his own MB days and that will come when he kills Lionel. I have no doubt that Lex will follow in his father's footsteps and kill his father.

[Who]

Originally posted by xrayvision
That was one of my favorite scenes of the episode. Great, absolutely great!!

I agree.

[euterpe]

Originally posted by LexLuv180
I love Lionel, the show wouldn't be the same without him.

I loved the line too. Lex is obviously jealous as hell. he always wanted his father growing up, and now senses Clark not only had the perfect family before, but now the father he didn't have.
Lex has every reason and right to be resentful of Clark and angry at Lionel. As previously pointed out, Lex has always been envious of Clark and his perfect little Rockwellian family. All he ever wanted was to be included in the “little Kent cabal”. And as he told Chloe when she was sprayed with that Levitas truth serum, all he ever wanted from his father was for Lionel to love him. But no matter what Lex has done past or present, it is never good enough for Lionel.

Lionel always believed Lex was weak and pathetic because he wasn’t cruel and ruthless enough and allowed emotions to interfere with his actions. Now Lex is finally turning into the man Lionel wanted him to be and now Lionel has changed his tune. Lex is still not the son he can “be proud of”. That blessing is now being bestowed upon Clark, who isn’t even his own son. But then, how can Lex possibly compete with a “son” that can run faster than the speed of light and catch people falling off of buildings?

So, before Lex could never be bad enough to please his father and now he can never be good enough? No wonder Lex is so screwed up.

Lionel keeps claiming that he’s a changed man and just wants to help Clark. But if Lionel has truly seen the light, why does he persist with his emotional abuse of his own true son? You would think he would want to try and help Lex instead of constantly undermining him and blatantly antagonizing him by showering Clark with adoration and fatherly praise.

I can understand Lex’s anger and resentment. And I can understand Lionel’s cruelty (it’s his nature, no matter what he claims). What I don’t understand is Clark’s eager acceptance of Lionel’s fatherly aspirations and ministrations. I still don’t grasp how he can just brush aside everything wicked thing Lionel has done and HUG the fiend! Nor how he would encourage this behavior knowing how it must affect Lex. I know they have not been on the best of terms lately, but I would not have expected Clark to be that petty. Of course, it is perfectly within the realm of reason that Clark is that dense and self-absorbed to consider how it might affect Lex. As Kara pointed out, Clark can be a selfish little prick at times.

That scene between Lex and Lionel was the best one in the episode, however. And I still think losing Lionel to Clark, rather than Lana, would be a much more compelling incentive of Lex’s permanent slide to the dark side.

[xrayvision]

Originally posted by euterpe
Nor how he would encourage this behavior knowing how it must affect Lex. I know they have not been on the best of terms lately, but I would not have expected Clark to be that petty.

It's interesting you write this. I've always wondered about Lex's perception of how Lionel is protecting Clark and has gotten so close to him. But isn't it about time that they show Clark's perception of the matter that Lex needs a father? I mean he saw some good in Lex in Nemesis and started blaming himself for giving up on Lex too soon. And the resentment he had of Lex in Phantom should be gone now that he learned Lana is the one who committed the crime. By now, Clark should be telling Lionel to go help Lex and accept him so they can finally work things out and maybe get Lex back on the right track. We know it won't happen because of Lex's destiny, but Clark not even trying to urge Lionel to patch things up is not something the real Superman would do.

[Poweranimals]

I love their scenes together. Especially when Lex calls him out on the way he treated his mother and Lionel so knows he's right, but won't even give Lex the satisfaction of an apology.

[mistaguitarmasta]

Originally posted by xrayvision
I have no doubt that Lex will kill Lionel.

Absolutely. I always assumed that would have to happen. It would be the final, deciding event in Lex's transformation.


Originally posted by xrayvision
It's obvious Lex knows Clark is an alien. He can't prove it, but he knows it.


Originally posted by Dor el
You think so? Why exactly? 'Cause on SV rarely are people aware of the obvious. They're all obtunded. Maybe Lex is just feeling a bit displaced as Lionel's favorite. Granted, he probably should know something is up with Clark.....but I would not be surprised if he does not know. If lex does know, I sure hope Clark can find one of those mind whammy S things Zorel used on Kara to make her forget that he had just accosted her beloved Aunt Lara.

Lex definitely knows SOMETHING'S up with Clark because at the end of "Fierce" he said to Kara, "I've already protected you, like I would have protected others close to me if they would have told me the truth." It seems pretty obvious he has STRONG suspicions about Clark. He stabbed him with the chisel in "Crimson", but then again, he saw him bleed and get pinned under a metal beam in "Nemesis," so he might be a little confused about the specifics.

[CK&CK]

Originally posted by MarkAllan22
Lionel has to be killed by the hands of Lex. There is no other way for Lionel to die.

From a writting stand point, at least in my view, this would be difficult to do right.......LIONEL IS FAR SUPERIOR to Lex as villains go. Not saying it can't be done.....but how do you have a Wobbly.....Lana Loving, Cry Baby like Lex...Kill The Mangificent B and keep it from being an insult to the Best Villain on this show. The only villain that can out do The M.B. on this show is Brianiac.....but give Lionel the same technology.....Super Brain or Not.......Lionel would own Brianiac.......much the same way that I remember Darkseid (in a Justice League Episode) doing a number on Brianiac.

Brianiac- " You decieved me"

Darkseid- "It's What I do".

---------------------------------
*my version of the story

Brianiac- " You decieved me"

Darkseid- "It's What I do".

*Suddenly Lionel emerges from the Darkness

Lionel- "Yes, but I still do it better"

Darkseid- "Flea.......you and your limited vision have earned the wrath of my Omega Beam"

*Darkseid proceeds to fire, but his eye energy overloads, and he ends up blinding himself

Darkseid- "Noooo.....NOOOOO...WHAT HAVE YOU DONE......ARRRRRRRRRRRGGGHH!"

*Now blinded, Darkseid proceeds to wander aimlessly looking for The Magnificent B.

Lionel- "My Dear Darkseid....do you see the bigger picture now?...........Somehow.......I think you do........Now Brianiac.....where were we?.........Oh yes...."

[Kriminal]

if there is a next season having lionel around and not lex would seem quite awkward so i think he should be killed off this season no matter it be the last or another one because that should symbolize lex's last act to become who he really is.

[CK&CK]

I agree.....except that in every incarnation of Lex Luthor that I have ever seen........he pales in comparison to Smallville's Lionel Luthor. Funny thing is....the only Lex that ever came remotely close to the Magnificent B is Smallville's Lex....when he was not being a wuss who was getting his A$$ handed to him. "Onyx" & "Justice" come to mind....among others.

[Randy G.]

This dialogue between Lionel & Lex, was probably my favorite thing about the episode.
Well, other than seeing Helen Slater. :)

[xrayvision]

Originally posted by CK&CK
I agree.....except that in every incarnation of Lex Luthor that I have ever seen........he pales in comparison to Smallville's Lionel Luthor. Funny thing is....the only Lex that ever came remotely close to the Magnificent B is Smallville's Lex....when he was not being a wuss who was getting his A$$ handed to him. "Onyx" & "Justice" come to mind....among others.

He did have his ass handed to him in Justice (by Ollie, a non-Superman character). That's the reason I hated that episode (the Superman characters were made to look like sh*t compared to the other characters that don't belong in the show).

But Lex in Onyx was badass. Worse than Lionel if you ask me. Much worse. He was so bad that I don't think Superman would have been able to deal with such a Lex. Unlike the real Lex who's trying to save the world, that Lex was out for only himself and kill anyone who gets in his way, even if they were trying to save the world. The real Lex would accept Superman's help in dire consequences, but not the evil Lex in Onyx. I believe that is the evil extreme that is inside Lex that Lex will never reach because he will always have a small amount of good in him, which evil Lex in Onyx did not have.

[KryptonStones]

The scene between Lex and Lionel was beautiful, and also solidified my thoughts that a lot of people have reiterated. Lex just can't flat out beat his father, period. I don't even believe Onyx Lex could out MB his father who, by the way had been immersed in his goodness at the time, so it wasn't the same plainfield between Lex and Lionel. He DID outwit Braniac in Solitude, is always TWO STEPS ahead of everyone, and has become the most unpredictable character on the show with so many ulterior motives it's impossible to read his actions.

If anything should truly drive Lex toward his dark destiny, I think it should be his issues with his father. It should really eat at his core that no matter what he does he can't gain acceptance from Lionel, nor can he beat him at any game. I can imagine Lex shooting Lionel with a gun, blinded with anger, and Lionel's last breaths are "You lose, son." And that inferiority complex Lex has should motivate him to become superior to everyone around him. To me, the scene between Lionel and Lex confirmed that Lionel will always, TRULY be the MB whether dead or alive. Even if Lex does become truly evil with no regard for human life whatsoever, he's never going to have that MB characteristic that Lionel possesses.

[All about Clark]

Originally posted by xrayvision
By now, Clark should be telling Lionel to go help Lex and accept him so they can finally work things out and maybe get Lex back on the right track. We know it won't happen because of Lex's destiny, but Clark not even trying to urge Lionel to patch things up is not something the real Superman would do.

I don't think Lionel is capable of doing things right by Lex and I'm sure Clark knows that. To interfere, could make matters worse. Lionel is still the MB even if he's working in behalf of Clark.

[Sweetie]

It was my favorite scene actually.Michael & John gave a solid performance.Their conversation full with juicy remarks from both part was so enterteining.They did a wonderful job.The Luthors rocked :cool:

[Odysseus]

Originally posted by euterpe
Lex has every reason and right to be resentful of Clark and angry at Lionel. As previously pointed out, Lex has always been envious of Clark and his perfect little Rockwellian family. All he ever wanted was to be included in the “little Kent cabal”. And as he told Chloe when she was sprayed with that Levitas truth serum, all he ever wanted from his father was for Lionel to love him. But no matter what Lex has done past or present, it is never good enough for Lionel.

Lionel always believed Lex was weak and pathetic because he wasn’t cruel and ruthless enough and allowed emotions to interfere with his actions. Now Lex is finally turning into the man Lionel wanted him to be and now Lionel has changed his tune. Lex is still not the son he can “be proud of”. That blessing is now being bestowed upon Clark, who isn’t even his own son. But then, how can Lex possibly compete with a “son” that can run faster than the speed of light and catch people falling off of buildings?

So, before Lex could never be bad enough to please his father and now he can never be good enough? No wonder Lex is so screwed up.

Lionel keeps claiming that he’s a changed man and just wants to help Clark. But if Lionel has truly seen the light, why does he persist with his emotional abuse of his own true son? You would think he would want to try and help Lex instead of constantly undermining him and blatantly antagonizing him by showering Clark with adoration and fatherly praise.

I can understand Lex’s anger and resentment. And I can understand Lionel’s cruelty (it’s his nature, no matter what he claims). What I don’t understand is Clark’s eager acceptance of Lionel’s fatherly aspirations and ministrations. I still don’t grasp how he can just brush aside everything wicked thing Lionel has done and HUG the fiend! Nor how he would encourage this behavior knowing how it must affect Lex. I know they have not been on the best of terms lately, but I would not have expected Clark to be that petty. Of course, it is perfectly within the realm of reason that Clark is that dense and self-absorbed to consider how it might affect Lex. As Kara pointed out, Clark can be a selfish little prick at times.

That scene between Lex and Lionel was the best one in the episode, however. And I still think losing Lionel to Clark, rather than Lana, would be a much more compelling incentive of Lex’s permanent slide to the dark side.

I totally agree with everything in this post.

After everything Lionel put Lex through over the years, telling him he wasn't strong enough then telling him he wasn't good enough, it's all gonna keep building up. I remember in the S3 premiere the Louis hallucination said he killed his father because "he kept puttin me down over and over, and it kept chippin away and chippin away at me until one day..."

I have no doubt Lex will kill Lionel in the series finale. There's no other way I can imagine Lionel dying and there's no other way I can imagine Lex finally becoming irreversibly evil.