Holy crap, did anyone see that coming? [Archive] - KSiteTV Television & Movie Forums

XSE_Greystone

10-29-2007, 08:56 PM

It seems kind of stupid to me. I mean we've already been down this road in the 1st season...it's like they just keep repeating everything over and over. So what now they have to stop the virus from killing everyone...probably that new made virus from Bob that Mohinder was suppose to give to Monica. And they all stop the virus...then what...next year they see a person who has the power to change the world so all the special people rule the world and are no longer different and feared and hunted like Marvels House of M and then someone goes into the future and sees how horrible or whatever it is and then goes back and they have to stop it. Do something new now please.

I just hope they don't try to run with this story for a whole year...i mean them trying to stop the bomb in so many weeks was great but taking a whole year until we see if the plaque is prevented?

Idk

faz

10-29-2007, 09:05 PM

I sort of agree in that it is a little repetitive, but in their defense, it seems WAY too anticlimactic after the bomb last season to just have everyone fall back into their old lives like nothing ever happened. They have to find something for these people to do, and I think the virus is actually a good one for them to pursue. Unlike the bomb, the virus is going to affect the entire planet instead of just New York, and EVERYONE is going to feel the effects of it, it probably won't come down to everyone hunting down anyone who has an ability (mostly because almost everyone will be dead anyway).

The way I see it, at least Peter's not rediscovering Nuclear Ted's power and blowing up Cork. I mean, think of the poor guys, there's like 10 brewery's in that city, Dublin can't support Ireland's beer consumption alone.

XSE_Greystone

10-29-2007, 09:35 PM

LOL...true true.

Mini Wolfsbane

10-29-2007, 11:29 PM

Hmmm. They're in the future, haven't we done this before?;)

Next week's ep. looks so much grander then "Five years gone".

I mean, did you see the nekkid people (LOL) getting
doused with water or chemicals or whatever the heck that
was? Scary.

Must. Watch. Promo. Again!

KryptonzGirl

10-30-2007, 12:33 AM

Maybe Peter will be Nekkid. =D

Anyway, this whole "new york and the world is doomed" plot was done last season..I hope they don't make it exactly the same. x_x!

Xanderman

10-30-2007, 01:33 AM

Originally posted by XSE_Greystone
It seems kind of stupid to me. I mean we've already been down this road in the 1st season...it's like they just keep repeating everything over and over. I completely agree. And the very cheap green screen background certainly didn't help matters either, did it...

Thumbs way down on Season 2 so far for me.

faz

10-30-2007, 01:49 AM

Right on, that green screen effect was terrible. In fact, are we sure it was even a green screen? It looked a lot like one of the backdrops we painted for a play in elementary school.

Mini Wolfsbane

10-30-2007, 02:19 AM

Oh, man, that green screen was awful.
I was like, "Huh? I can tell that's a green screen.
Shouldn't the effects be better?"

I don't think they're gonna make it exactly the same K-girl.
...At least, I hope not. I mean, that promo was really good.
I don't think it'll fail. :)

...And maybe we'll even get nekkid Peter.
(He's hot without his shirt.)

KryptonzGirl

10-30-2007, 03:22 AM

OH the green screen..I had almost forgotten about that.Yes it was really bad..I expected it to be better. I didn't get the "so that's what new york would look like deserted" feeling..it was more of.."wow peter is hot even against a crappy green screen effect"

Ok..a little peter obsessed here.

GuardianAngel

10-30-2007, 03:59 AM

Yeah, they're using those green screens a lot this season and you can always tell when they do.
So, another apocalyptic future which seems to resolve around New York again. Poor New York!
At least the main storyline for this season seems to be assuming a shape and it'll make the next episodes very interesting. I'm really looking forward to the "Four months ago" one. A lot of question which have been bugging me since they started this season should be aswered there.

spicyblark

10-30-2007, 05:26 AM

Well, that would mean Mohinder is probably alive too...hopefully.

Dpyro

10-30-2007, 11:47 AM

Originally posted by faz
I sort of agree in that it is a little repetitive, but in their defense, it seems WAY too anticlimactic after the bomb last season to just have everyone fall back into their old lives like nothing ever happened. They have to find something for these people to do, and I think the virus is actually a good one for them to pursue. Unlike the bomb, the virus is going to affect the entire planet instead of just New York, and EVERYONE is going to feel the effects of it, it probably won't come down to everyone hunting down anyone who has an ability (mostly because almost everyone will be dead anyway).

The way I see it, at least Peter's not rediscovering Nuclear Ted's power and blowing up Cork. I mean, think of the poor guys, there's like 10 brewery's in that city, Dublin can't support Ireland's beer consumption alone.

yeah your right now the heroes finnally have something to do i was sick of seeing the twins driving a car for the past 3 episodes hiro trying to makeout with his ancient grandmother peter in a pub and nathan and mat have like the coolest storyline now they have something to ban together and fight

faz

10-30-2007, 03:36 PM

Originally posted by GuardianAngel
So, another apocalyptic future which seems to resolve around New York again. Poor New York!

I don't think it's going to be centered around NY, I think they're going for a much more global effect. I think the only reason they brought Peter back to NY for that was to show the damage the virus did, since the absence of people is definitely noticeable there

Mini Wolfsbane

10-30-2007, 08:10 PM

Originally posted by Dpyro
yeah your right now the heroes finnally have something to do i was sick of seeing the twins driving a car for the past 3 episodes hiro trying to makeout with his ancient grandmother peter in a pub and nathan and mat have like the coolest storyline now they have something to ban together and fight

You're funny. :lol:

You're right, though. It's been pretty lack-luster lately,
except for a few good episodes. I think I only
have an interest in what Peter, HRG, and Parman
are doing. And I guess Mohinder, eventhough
I don't like Monica very much. (These writers
need to quit naming characters with names
that start with the letter
M!! For the love of cookies, next time name
one Willamina or Icabod, even! Something different!!
Ahhh, my brain.):\

erikamichelle614

10-30-2007, 08:11 PM

i kinda thought immediately that it was because of Maya's power. and btw, the day everyone evacuates is on my 19th birthday! woo

Xanderman

10-31-2007, 01:18 AM

Originally posted by faz
Right on, that green screen effect was terrible. In fact, are we sure it was even a green screen? It looked a lot like one of the backdrops we painted for a play in elementary school. Lol, a dude in the effects thread said it was blue screen. Green screen is supposedly superior technology, but of course Heroes, being as popular world-wide as they keep telling us it is, clearly can't afford it.

Originally posted by GuardianAngel
I'm really looking forward to the "Four months ago" one. A lot of question which have been bugging me since they started this season should be aswered there. My main question is how Peter is using his past abilities without memories of the people he knew in the past, which to me, seems completely against season one's repeated teachings about the nature of how Peter's "empathic" based ability is supposed to work. Bad writing/inconsistent character development? I guess we'll find out.

ginnyfan

10-31-2007, 02:35 AM

No I didn't see it coming but I can't say I was surprised when it did come. The wow moments for me were HRG killing Ivan and seeing the paintings. Also finding out that Peter and "Adam" whoever he is, were working together.

If Bob is Electro-KBell's dad, that explains a lot.

citizenlen

11-03-2007, 01:13 PM

This remind me of that 2002 movie, Time Machine. No matter how much Dr. Hartdegan tried to change the past, the outcome in the future is the same. His fiance dies one form or another. He just could not prevent it. I think this is what Heroes is trying to do. No matter how much they try to stop the NYC from exploding, it will be destroyed tenfold.

Xanderman

11-04-2007, 06:46 PM

Originally posted by citizenlen
This remind me of that 2002 movie, Time Machine. No matter how much Dr. Hartdegan tried to change the past, the outcome in the future is the same. His fiance dies one form or another. He just could not prevent it. I think this is what Heroes is trying to do. No matter how much they try to stop the NYC from exploding, it will be destroyed tenfold. The concept in The Time Machine was slightly different, they followed a "single universe/single timeline" philosophy. Alexander went back in time to save his fiance. However if he saves his fiance, he would never have the need to go back in time -- thus creating a paradox. Time Machine's thing was that the universe has built-in mechanisms to protect itself against paradoxes. However Heroes has already shown us that they've adopted a multi-verse/multi-timeline approach, making paradoxes of the kind as above from Time Machine a complete non-issue basically. I prefer the Time Machine view of the universe myself...

The flaw in Time Machine's reasoning, however, was that future Alex could have simply told past Alex that he absolutely HAD to create a time machine and go back in time on a certain date to save his fiance from death. This would have ensured that the time machine was created and that he went back in time to save her each and every time -- yet this was never even considered or brought up as a possibility (which it obviously is).

Mello Penelo

11-04-2007, 06:50 PM

Originally posted by jazzylg
It's okay, Peter's immune!

What if Peter is the one who brings the virus back into the present? It's a time-traveling cause/effect paradox.

taolbi

11-04-2007, 07:01 PM

Originally posted by Mello Penelo
What if Peter is the one who brings the virus back into the present? It's a time-traveling cause/effect paradox.

they should just off peter if thats the case

i mean...think about it

he was the bomb...now he's the virus??

poor guy

Xanderman

11-04-2007, 07:18 PM

Nathan: You brought the Virus, so we could save the world...

Peter: I love you Nathan.

Nathan: I love you too...just don't hug me or touch me or anything...because of, you know, the whole you being a walking virus timebomb thing...I thought mirrors were scary, you're ten times worse.

Peter: :(

:lol:

Mello Penelo

11-04-2007, 07:20 PM

Well, it does seem like a lot of the plots from the first season are being reused.

For instance: Mohinder-- no one believes his theories.

Not to mention another apocalyptic future.

Originally posted by Xanderman
My main question is how Peter is using his past abilities without memories of the people he knew in the past, which to me, seems completely against season one's repeated teachings about the nature of how Peter's "empathic" based ability is supposed to work. Bad writing/inconsistent character development? I guess we'll find out.

The memories are still in him, whether he remembers them or not. And I think his body is at the point where using the abilities are like muscle memory. He's not Peter Pan where he has to think happy thoughts to use his abilities.

Xanderman

11-04-2007, 07:30 PM

Originally posted by Mello Penelo
The memories are still in him, whether he remembers them or not. And I think his body is at the point where using the abilities are like muscle memory. He's not Peter Pan where he has to think happy thoughts to use his abilities. I'd be fine with that explanation if it wasn't for all the trouble season 1 went through trying to hammer home to us exactly how Peter Pan's abilities work (or don't work). If "muscle memory" was good enough, or if let's say something like regen was truly automatic with him, then why in each of the three times Peter died in season 1 did they make him "come back" with either Claire right next or near to him or after he had "thought about the way she made him feel"? I wish someone else other than Claire had pulled the glass shard out of his head last season, then I would be able to accept the Peter we're seeing this season with far more ease.

Mello Penelo

11-04-2007, 08:27 PM

No no, that's not what I mean. It started out how he had to focus on his abilities, but after a while they became so second nature to him the abilities became muscle memory.

faz

11-05-2007, 08:16 AM

Originally posted by Xanderman
Lol, a dude in the effects thread said it was blue screen. Green screen is supposedly superior technology, but of course Heroes, being as popular world-wide as they keep telling us it is, clearly can't afford it.

That clears that up a little bit, though it still looked like a cardboard cutout to me hahaha.

My main question is how Peter is using his past abilities without memories of the people he knew in the past, which to me, seems completely against season one's repeated teachings about the nature of how Peter's "empathic" based ability is supposed to work. Bad writing/inconsistent character development? I guess we'll find out.

I don't think that's how his power worked, I think that's just how he learned to access his power, kind of like how Clark's heat vision went off on SV when he thought about sex, but once he learned to control it he could use it even after pulling his mind out of the gutter. I think the whole memory loss thing is a way for Peter to learn to control his abilities without having to remember every single person he came in contact with.

Xanderman

11-05-2007, 02:39 PM

Originally posted by faz
That clears that up a little bit, though it still looked like a cardboard cutout to me hahaha.

I don't think that's how his power worked, I think that's just how he learned to access his power, kind of like how Clark's heat vision went off on SV when he thought about sex, but once he learned to control it he could use it even after pulling his mind out of the gutter. I think the whole memory loss thing is a way for Peter to learn to control his abilities without having to remember every single person he came in contact with. That's cool and all and I don't have a problem with any of that, never did, my main issue has always been with the way they did things in season 1. Peter died 3 times, and each and every time he came back only with either Claire near to him or after he had thought specifically about how she made him feel. If someone else, other than Claire, had pulled the shard out of Peter's head and he revived, then I'd be much happier with his S2 character. However, they didn't do that, they instead stuck to the "rules". This 3rd death would have been a great time for Peter's abilities to work outside the pre-conceived rules. This is just poor character development.

pycer

11-05-2007, 02:44 PM

Ever cross your mind that him coming back after Claire pulled the shard out of his head had nothing to do with Claire being there, only that the shard was removed from his head? Claire's sole purpose that time was due to the fact that she had something similar happen to her and thus maybe thought he would come back as well once it was removed.

Xanderman

11-05-2007, 02:51 PM

I think it's pretty much a given (and was intended by the show) that Claire's presence is what allowed him to heal after the power-interfering/brain-blocking shard was removed, especially given previous events in the season. If their intent was for Peter to truly heal the way Claire does, automatically, Claire wouldn't have been in the scene. They would have had someone else do it, to remove the possibility of it being the presence of Claire completely.

flying_girl

11-05-2007, 02:58 PM

no, why would anyone even think to take the shard out. they didnt know what killed him specifically. if you rewatch it you'll see that claire at the back of his head to see of there is something there and than pulls it out. the others didnt even know that he could come back to life after he died so they didnt think to try anything but claire who was on the autopsie table knew she could so she assumed he could to. it didnt have anything to do with her presence just her knowledge.

pycer

11-05-2007, 02:58 PM

Why? Seriously, the idea could simply have been that Claire knew that particular brain injury well, having suffered it herself. I beleive you are making far too many assumptions based solely on your own imaginings of what was going on, not on what was actually shown in the show. Besides, perhaps they wanted people to make the exact same assumptions you are, so that when they show Peters character (gasp!) growing in a different capacity, it will be interesting.

flying_girl

11-05-2007, 03:03 PM

pycer am i making to big an assumtion that you are responding to Xanderman and not me? cuz we seem to be saying the same thing

Xanderman

11-05-2007, 03:09 PM

Why go through all the trouble of creating a set of rules for how Peter the empath's powers apparently work only to abandon them completely the next season. If they wanted to start us on the path of seeing Peter grow and to accept the new and improved and virtually godlike S2 Peter, then they should have had Peter come back from the dead that 3rd time without Claire around at all.

faz

11-05-2007, 04:21 PM

I could come up with a mllion reasons why, though most of them would be pretty far-fetched, but then, you never know with this show. One reason I can think of is to show another stage in the development of Peter's ability. We've already seen that some of these abilities may be more than what they first seem (for example, the possibility that Parkman can project images into others minds like his father did). Nothing's certain yet on that front, but if that is the case, this just may be the next stage of the development of Peter's power.

Another explanation could possibly be that when Peter accesses his abilities this season its because he's feeling the same emotions that he felt when he accessed them last season. When he was angry and protective of Caitlin, he TK'd a few thugs around the pub, just as he'd done last season. When he teleported to the future, he probably felt utterly confused, a jumble of emotions as he had no idea what to do next, just as he probably felt when he met future Hiro last season.

These are just wild theories, I'm just letting my mind go over every possible explanation for this since I really don't know anything for sure. Plus I can come back here in a few weeks and say I was right if one of these turns out to be true lol.

pycer

11-05-2007, 05:48 PM

Originally posted by flying_girl
pycer am i making to big an assumtion that you are responding to Xanderman and not me? cuz we seem to be saying the same thing

That would be a correct assumption, look at the times of our two posts, happened at the same time, you were just a wee bit faster than me.

And Xander, you are only assuming there was that set of rules in the first place, there are several instances within the first season itself wherein your 'set of rules' was shown to be incorrect as well.

Xanderman

11-05-2007, 06:14 PM

Originally posted by faz
Another explanation could possibly be that when Peter accesses his abilities this season its because he's feeling the same emotions that he felt when he accessed them last season. When he was angry and protective of Caitlin, he TK'd a few thugs around the pub, just as he'd done last season. When he teleported to the future, he probably felt utterly confused, a jumble of emotions as he had no idea what to do next, just as he probably felt when he met future Hiro last season.
Your theories are solid and are similar to what others have presented before. I like the Hiro being connected with a "confused" emotion idea, lol that's new. According to this line of thinking, if Peter gets killed he shouldn't come back. Because there wouldn't be any "feelings/emotions" to trigger the power. This means that after the shard was pulled out last season, if it wasn't Claire that did it, he'd be dead (which is cool with me). Peter can only come back from the dead if he thinks about Claire just before death or if Claire is right next to him. I hope this is the case because it gives him limitations, and it also means that if he gets killed while he has amnesia, he will stay dead (adding an extra element of drama/danger to his scenes).

I didn't really like this theory when it was first brought up because I felt it to be too convenient, especially in relation to something like Claire's power -- if Peter associates feelings of pain/suffering/dying with her, and this triggers the power, it's cheap and makes healing thus basically automatic, just as with Claire. I feel it important that Peter must put extra effort into using other people's powers, and that they are not automatic or a direct extension of his will as they are with the original holders. Otherwise he would just be too powerful.

But can you connect the emotions with the original power holders for all the instances amnesiac Peter used abilities this season? Because that's the only way we can say for sure this theory is right...

Originally posted by pycer
And Xander, you are only assuming there was that set of rules in the first place, there are several instances within the first season itself wherein your 'set of rules' was shown to be incorrect as well. I agree that the show itself has seemed inconsistent...yet in each of the three instances Peter revived from death last year, Claire was around or he thought about Claire first. They were consistent enough with that for it to leave a lasting impression on me as to how Peter's ability apparently works.

pycer

11-05-2007, 06:17 PM

Again, an assumption you made, not information presented by tptb as truth. Theories are great, but when the source material itself proves your theories incorrect, it's time to move on man.

Xanderman

11-05-2007, 06:22 PM

All three revivals last year involved Claire's presence or feelings about or in connection with Claire. That's not an assumption, it's reality. They remained consistent with this for some reason, if it doesn't have lasting significance then why bother.

faz

11-05-2007, 06:33 PM

Originally posted by Xanderman According to this line of thinking, if Peter gets killed he shouldn't come back. Because there wouldn't be any "feelings/emotions" to trigger the power. This means that after the shard was pulled out last season, if it wasn't Claire that did it, he'd be dead (which is cool with me). Peter can only come back from the dead if he thinks about Claire just before death or if Claire is right next to him. I hope this is the case because it gives him limitations, and it also means that if he gets killed while he has amnesia, he will stay dead (adding an extra element of drama/danger to his scenes).

That's a good point, I didn't even think about that. It would reintroduce a dimension to Peter we haven't seen since the beginning of last season, that he isn't invincible and he has weaknesses. So unless he's feeling whatever emotion he felt when he met Claire right before he dies (which I can imagine would not be the case), he could very easily kick the bucket.

Either way, I'm pretty interested to see where they go with this Peter situation, hopefully it'll make sense relatively soon.

flying_girl

11-05-2007, 09:36 PM

i'd call 2 bullets in the chest dead, especially if one is in the heart. so that blows your theory. as for feeling what he felt when he met people with powers, claude taught him how to use his powers without thinking about anything. peter was not the first empath that claude taught and claude told peter that his powers would work if he forgot about everyone, which is what peter did. forget about everyone who meant anything to him

Xanderman

11-06-2007, 12:54 AM

Originally posted by faz
Either way, I'm pretty interested to see where they go with this Peter situation, hopefully it'll make sense relatively soon. Yeah hopefully Four Months Ago will fill in some of these holes for us...

Originally posted by flying_girl
i'd call 2 bullets in the chest dead, especially if one is in the heart. so that blows your theory.I don't completely remember the scene (what ep was that again?) but Peter didn't die, did he? He got shot, and he healed on the spot. That hardly "blows my theory", flying girl. And this isn't really MY theory to begin with, it's just what the show itself taught us last season and constantly reinforced.

as for feeling what he felt when he met people with powers, claude taught him how to use his powers without thinking about anything. peter was not the first empath that claude taught and claude told peter that his powers would work if he forgot about everyone, which is what peter did. forget about everyone who meant anything to him

Again, if this is true and not just Claude's view, then the show shouldn't have had Claire be the one who pulled the shard out. Her presence only served to make these theories and ideas they themselves established continue to persist. And if Peter really is able to use powers (which he gains in a ridiculously easy fashion -- simply by being near a power holder) without limits or rules or extra effort (that the original power holder doesn't have to exert), then he's just too damned powerful. Sylar is nothing next to Peter if Peter is this limitless. I truly hope this is not the case.

pycer

11-06-2007, 08:20 AM

Geez, Xander, I think it's easier to talk to a brick wall than you.

Following your view of things, Peter's abilities should never have been anything more than flying, as for the first several times we saw him do anything, or there was any mention of him doing anything, it was flying.

Now, I'm all for some limits on ol Petey but thus far tptb have done nor said anything that makes your theory anywhere near accurate. For instance, when he was training with Claude, he used TK to defend himself with no recollection at first who he ran across that even had TK, much less how they made him feel inside. Your hung up on this whole Claire pulling the shard out thing, but had someone else done it you would still be saying, 'well, Claire was there in the house when it happened'. Claire removing the shard from his head was simply this- she knew from her prior injury what that section of the brain meant, and to lay the ground work for Peter giving her the gun and asking her to shoot him later on down the line. Thats it, thats all that was meant to be.

All I can say is chill out man, relax, it's a show. Enjoy it, or don't and move on. Again, they likely wanted people such as yourself to make that very assumption you did so that when Peters character begins to show new dimensions with his abilities, you'll be surprised.

Xanderman

11-07-2007, 02:32 AM

Originally posted by pycer
Following your view of things, Peter's abilities should never have been anything more than flying, as for the first several times we saw him do anything, or there was any mention of him doing anything, it was flying. I'm not sure what you mean by this.

The way I see it, and the way they seem to have set things up for the most part, Peter's abilities are tied to his emotions. He must feel a certain way to trigger a power. They aren't merely an extension of his will or always on as they are with the original power holders. To make it otherwise would make him way too powerful and less interesting of a character.

And again, if it was intended that Peter was supposed to truly heal on his own in that scene, they wouldn't have had Claire around at all, to remove the possibility completely. Claire's being there implied it was her presence that triggered his healing, especially given previous events in the season. If Claire wasn't there, I don't think Peter would have came back, irregardless if the shard was removed or not. The reason being simply that the power isn't always on or activated in him as it is with Claire.