Does Smallville correct it's mistakes?

[Spirit Detective]

I kind of feel that Gough, Milar, and the powers behind the show don't realize their mistakes each season and make the wrong moves again in the next season.

Eric Kripke (Supernatural) said it best: "But the difference between us and other shows, is when they make missteps, they say, 'Go f--- yourself.' When we make missteps, we pay attention to the fans and we course correct. So, fans, I love you all, but stop worrying. "

Many people did not like how triangles were given priority over mythos in Season 6. Yet the people behind the show seemed to ignore what many fans want: Clark embracing his destiny.

[hassenmorad]

One quick, obvious change made between the first 4 seasons and these last two (especially season 6) is the dramatic drop in the number of times kryptonite was used to weaken Clark. That was a major gripe of fans and I'd bet they stopped using that plot device because of fans' feedback.

And on your example of Mythos taking a back seat to the relationship triangles, I believe they've determined that that is what the average Smallville viewer wants to see. (certainly, though, I would like it to be the other way around).

[cksidekick]

i will say this....hind sight is 20/20....you cant know the dissapointments of a season until its over....then you fix them for the next, which will also have weak points...your point is well taken, Spirit Detective...season 7 is shurely set to be THE mythos season...

[meteor_phreak]

AlMiles: "What mistakes?"

[TheHitMan76]

Originally posted by meteor_phreak
AlMiles: "What mistakes?"

How about the mistake in promise where clark says one line at the beginning to chloe, and it suddenly changes back to the scene, only that lana's in the scene. Now even though it was supposed to be at the same time, the line Clark said suddenly changed a bit. :D

That was just bad directing and editing :D.

[Spirit Detective]

I agree that they cannot see the disappointments of a season until it's over, but if fan reaction is against a certain aspect, they should change it. Example: Many people disliked the Roadhouse in Supernatural so in the two part finale they burned it down.

the minor details irritate me a bit as well: In Noir, they couldn't get Lana's shot wound right. It kept switching arms (left, right, left).

Hopefully AlMiles will learn from Season 6 and bring back the elements that made Smallville so good.

[RedBullet]

What also annoys me is that they think we like the unrealistic soapy opera Clana relationship... I hope they finally become adults and either become a normal ship or friends....Enough is ENUFF!

[hassenmorad]

Originally posted by TheHitMan76
How about the mistake in promise where clark says one line at the beginning to chloe, and it suddenly changes back to the scene, only that lana's in the scene. Now even though it was supposed to be at the same time, the line Clark said suddenly changed a bit. :D

That was just bad directing and editing :D.

Actually, I think that was done on purpose to show how different people see the same event differently.

[cksidekick]

Originally posted by RedBullet
What also annoys me is that they think we like the unrealistic soapy opera Clana relationship... I hope they finally become adults and either become a normal ship or friends....Enough is ENUFF!


i agree here, but hey......the show is on the WB network, and call me nutts, but the whole organisation seems to be rooted in 14 year old female viewers.....i watch WWE"s Smackdown!! on Friday night and Smallville on Thursdays...it takes Gladiators and Superman to get me tuned in...all the sappy soap opera Clana CRAP is for all those 14 year old girls....

I KNOW ill get a million "I'm not a 14 year old girl, and i love my Clana!!!"..........save it....its a cheerleader's network....and unfortunatly, as good as Smallville can be.................sometimes..............it just..............(shakes head slowly and sighs)........:rolleyes:

[xrayvision]

Originally posted by cksidekick
season 7 is shurely set to be THE mythos season...

I wish I shared your optimism cksidekick. I think it will be a mythos season, but for another Kryptonian, not the one the show is supposed to be based on.

[SeasonVelvet]

Because Smackdown is just so ultra cool, with it's manly roars and juicing biceps.

Whoever likes speedos, raise your hand.

[meteor_phreak]

promise was just one big mistake...

but yeah, the dialogue changed, and i'm not buyin the p.o.v. excuse...

[TheHitMan76]

Originally posted by meteor_phreak
promise was just one big mistake...

but yeah, the dialogue changed, and i'm not buyin the p.o.v. excuse...


It wasn't a pov change. Reason being that planned out pov changes in shows don't make the viewers that notice them go "WTF?".

[hassenmorad]

Originally posted by TheHitMan76
It wasn't a pov change. Reason being that planned out pov changes in shows don't make the viewers that notice them go "WTF?".

I'd say that was because it was poorly executed. Pretty experimental I guess.

[meteor_phreak]

still not buyin it...

[Wooderson_Grey]

The SV PTB have never listened to what the fans want, i dont think that they have ever even heard what the fans want.
OH, and i couldn t help but notice a flub last night. When Lois has those numbers that she ripped apart when promising Chloe she would not investigate a Luthor matter. You know, the numbers that she puts back together , and finally says, "Latitude and Longitude, no duh." I noticed she ripped the paper on top of the number 2. When it shows her with the numbers in her car later, the paper is completely ripped somewhere else. An insugnificant thing certainly but i love to idetify flubs.

[ClarkyBoy14]

meteor_phreak, that's how it was supposed to be, whether you're "buying it" or not.

Al & Miles have admitted their mistakes in the past. And, don't know if it's true, but I heard that they ended the Chloe working for Lionel against Clark story because some fans didn't like it.

[meteor_phreak]

where did they say it was a P.O.V. thing? i've never heard more than speculation...and i'm sorry, it was pretty sucky...

[Acejournalist82]

Promise was not at all one of my favorite episodes, and I know what you mean... All I have heard is speculation and nothing has been made clear.

[meteor_phreak]

it just seems like revisionist history...:( i hate revisionist history...

i'd rather they act like it never happened, but when chloe's lines changed, her delivery changed, all that, same with clark...that's not P.O.V., that's a MISTAKE...

[DentonSuperMan]

I think that could be POV

[meteor_phreak]

to me, it would have been p.o.v. if lana was retelling the story...but to have the camera on clark, and he says different freakin words, that's not p.o.v.

[Honey45]

Originally posted by Spirit Detective

Many people did not like how triangles were given priority over mythos in Season 6. Yet the people behind the show seemed to ignore what many fans want: Clark embracing his destiny.

That's not so much of a "mistake" as it is "the way the show is".
People complain about how Clark isn't Superman and doesn't act like Superman and all this, but you have to realize, the show is about Clark BEFORE he was Superman.
They have no obligation to make him wear the suit, fly, do his training, or any of that.

I don't mean to be rude, but come on. It's one thing to think badly of the show when they do something wrong (like make Clark Kent a girl or something ridiculous), but it's another to think they should change the show completely. If it's so bad, don't watch it.

[xrayvision]

Originally posted by meteor_phreak
promise was just one big mistake...

but yeah, the dialogue changed, and i'm not buyin the p.o.v. excuse...

What do you mean by pov excuse? I know they changed that scene in the wine cellar from an outsider's (or audience's) point of view to Lana's. Do you mean that the dialogue the first time it was shown changed from the 2nd time? I gotta go back and watch that again if that's the case since I never realized it. I hated that episode so much that I never really watched more than 2 times. But I did watch the episode right after that (Combat) about 4-5 times already.

[kryptongirl2008]

Originally posted by HeddyH
That's not so much of a "mistake" as it is "the way the show is".
People complain about how Clark isn't Superman and doesn't act like Superman and all this, but you have to realize, the show is about Clark BEFORE he was Superman.
They have no obligation to make him wear the suit, fly, do his training, or any of that.

I don't mean to be rude, but come on. It's one thing to think badly of the show when they do something wrong (like make Clark Kent a girl or something ridiculous), but it's another to think they should change the show completely. If it's so bad, don't watch it.

Exactly! Whenever you read an intro of Smallville they always say 'before clark became superman' Don't watch if you don't like.

[meteor_phreak]

Originally posted by xrayvision
What do you mean by pov excuse? I know they changed that scene in the wine cellar from an outsider's (or audience's) point of view to Lana's. Do you mean that the dialogue the first time it was shown changed from the 2nd time? I gotta go back and watch that again if that's the case since I never realized it. I hated that episode so much that I never really watched more than 2 times. But I did watch the episode right after that (Combat) about 4-5 times already. in the first one clark said "if you don't know that, you don't know me as well as i thought."

in the second one clark said "if you don't know that, you don't know me very well..."

there were also several words where chloe and/or clark sounded more desperate/frantic/hyper...

it was noticeable the first time i watched the ep. i started a thread in the episode forum when it happened...

[xrayvision]

Is it a mistake or was it done on purpose, like that diner hold-up scene in Pulp Fiction? I would think it would be easy enough for the editors to spot such a mistake in lines. I wish we could get an answer.

[xaosthry]

Ya know, I never thought I would see the day when SV is compared with Pulp Fiction. Now, I have seen it all.
hehe

[xrayvision]

Originally posted by HeddyH
That's not so much of a "mistake" as it is "the way the show is".
People complain about how Clark isn't Superman and doesn't act like Superman and all this, but you have to realize, the show is about Clark BEFORE he was Superman.
They have no obligation to make him wear the suit, fly, do his training, or any of that.

I don't mean to be rude, but come on. It's one thing to think badly of the show when they do something wrong (like make Clark Kent a girl or something ridiculous), but it's another to think they should change the show completely. If it's so bad, don't watch it.

I don't think the majority of the people care if he flies or wears the suit, etc. I think they want to see him by now as a strong-willed guy who does not need to be pushed and rely heavily on others to make the saves. Personally, I wish they would have built up on what he was in season 3, where he made it his mission to take down Lionel. I also wish they would write the show more intelligently than they have done over the last few seasons. The way they handled the ending of the Clark-Lex friendship was a letdown. They based it mostly on Lana rather than their ideals. They also have other ways of writing the show intelligently like bringing back Lucas as vyperman & myself have suggested.

The most annoying thing after all this is that Clark is a BDA. That & the soap opera-like writing bothers me the most. They need to put the majority of the focus back on Clark like it used to be and have him do his hero work independently from Chloe. She should be made a partner than a crutch to fall back on.

This Supergirl thing in season 7 should really be put off on hold until after Clark has trained and is at the point where all he needs to do is come up with a suit and a name. I would save it for an 8th season where he starts out as a reporter & finds her, and has to kill the story to protect his ID.

[meteor_phreak]

i've never seen pulp fiction, :o

but until we know for sure, i'm going with my gut. and to my knowledge, no one actually working on the show has ever said...someone provide an interview or a quote, and i'll shut up.

[Wooderson_Grey]

I did notice the dialog is slightly different in Lana's p o v, but i just figured the scene was just her remembering it , so shes just remebering it a little differently.
But what i was wandering about was why in Lana's point of view of the scene did Clark just disappear, instead of the usual blue and red streak when he superspeeds away. Is that supposed to be the way it really looks when he superspeeds, or is the way Lana just remebered it. But if not, are we the audience supposed to be the only ones able to see Clark as a blur when he's speeding around?

[meteor_phreak]

see, that doesn't fly for me, because of the time stamp. it's not like someone asked "hey, lana, what happened earlier," and she replied "well, i was in the wine cellar..."

when the camera shifted to lana's point of view, and the time stamps act like this is the same scene, just from where lana stood...i don't know...

now, before people get the wrong idea, this IS NOT why i didn't like promise. actually i forgive bigger mistakes than this all the time, on a lot of shows. i dislike promise for other reasons, but this still seems to be a glaring mistake...

and i don't fault the show for the lack of "super whoosh" when he disappeared. maybe that is harder to hear from across the room...maybe that was an accident too...but the dialogue, i think that's different...

[seannyd]

Smallville absolutely positively does NOT correct its mistakes and it doesn't care to do so either.

Character's reactions are CONTINUALLY used as crutches for conflict on the show. As every episode relies on some sort of conflict, mostly Lex, Lana, or Clark will act in a certain way in order to generate that conflict.

Inherently, that is not a problem, but when characters begin to act in such ways that are inconsistent even from episode to episode, it begins to grate on a person. There is no internal consistency within the Smallville world.

How many times did Clark go and yell at Lex immediately blaming him for stuff, expecting some sort of results? And how many times did Lex mention how this was pointless? Yes, Clark COULD get past security but that was not the point in many of these episodes.

Metropolis was established as being a three-hour drive away early in the series. Now people will make round trips in order to have five minute conversations.

Lana has *****ed and moaned for five years about secrets and lies yet she is one of the worst perpetrators and STILL she is put on a pedestal by most characters of the show.

Clark acts surprised that Lana doesn't care about his powers, but he shouldn't be because he asked her to MARRY HIM and she said "Yeah, let's do it."

And Lionel, oh GOD, Lionel. The single worst act of inconsistency on the show is with this character. John Glover does an absolutely brilliant job with the part, but his constant flip-flopping between good and evil has made me want to gouge out my own eyes. And it's almost never addressed.

The fact is that Gough and Millar are never going to care about the internal consistencies of their characters and that will never be fixed. In order to fix these mistakes it would require characters that make similar decisions in similar situations. That does not happen often here on Smallville.

But let me be clear that I am not bashing individuals who are not bothered by these inconsistencies. As I have stated many times before, I watch the show for the greatness that lies within it, hoping for it to shine through. I watch for the momentary glimpses of astonishment that strike me a few times during a given season. And I will continue watching until the very end.

But at this point, I feel that not only does Smallville NOT correct its mistakes, but that it will not and does not care to. They have gone this long without making the changes that they should and I do not see why they would start now.

[xrayvision]

Originally posted by Wooderson_Grey
But what i was wandering about was why in Lana's point of view of the scene did Clark just disappear, instead of the usual blue and red streak when he superspeeds away. Is that supposed to be the way it really looks when he superspeeds, or is the way Lana just remebered it. But if not, are we the audience supposed to be the only ones able to see Clark as a blur when he's speeding around?

Yes, that's how Clark looks when he superspeeds to the average person who can't run that fast and whose minds don't process info that fast. Remember in Progeny when Chloe asked Clark if he just went to the car and took that button. He was so fast that she didn't even see him leave. If he returns to the same position that he was at before starting to run, this will happen. If he goes to a different position, then it would seem like he magically teleported to the new position. This can be seen in Jinx when Clark returns to the original position (which is why it didn't appear he ever left to everyone in the stadium) and also in Oracle when Milton Fine as Jonathan disappeared from the chair and appeared behind Martha.

[hassenmorad]

^^^
Xrayvision, I think you have just pointed out the smoking gun in this debate. The fact that Clark appeared to have disappeared when he supersped from Lana's pt. of view clearly indicates that there were differences between what she saw/heard and what actually occured. Would the writers really introduce this view (of Clark's speeding away from a human's point of view) at this specific moment if they weren't trying to show that the scene was specifically different from the first one? I don't think so.

[xrayvision]

Originally posted by seannyd
Inherently, that is not a problem, but when characters begin to act in such ways that are inconsistent even from episode to episode, it begins to grate on a person. There is no internal consistency within the Smallville world.

This really bothered me this season. In Arrow, Lana was all for the blackbox and using it to protect Earth against Zod. Then in Fallout (2 episodes later) she is dead set against it. In Rage, she was dreading the fact that she was pregnant. Then in Static, she flipped her stance and accepted it. In Subterranean, she left the loft not too happy that Clark thought of her as Lex's pawn. Then the very next episode, she throws herself at him. Within Crimson, she was pissed at Clark and ran to Lex when he showed up in the barn and at the end she was giving Lex attitude for protecting her. In Freak, Chloe and Lana basically switched their views of meteor freaks. Clark is also guilty of this. In Hereafter, he learned that while saving people he may save a killer who will attempt to kill others. Yet in Fade, he had to learn that all over again as if Hereafter never happened. And the thing that drives me the most crazy is how in season 3 he admitted that it would never work for Lana and how she wasn't the one for him, and how in every season thereafter, he continued to go after her.


Originally posted by seannyd
How many times did Clark go and yell at Lex immediately blaming him for stuff, expecting some sort of results? And how many times did Lex mention how this was pointless? Yes, Clark COULD get past security but that was not the point in many of these episodes.

Yeah, Clark's inability to learn from his mistakes was done on purpose to generate a scene between him and Lex. This is what happens when they base their falling out on Lana instead of having them work together throughout the show, only for Clark to distance himself from Lex more and more over time, which would have been the smart way to do it.


Originally posted by seannyd
Metropolis was established as being a three-hour drive away early in the series. Now people will make round trips in order to have five minute conversations.

I have given up on this. Hypnotic was notorius for this. Instead of having Clark bring Simone to Metropolis and meet up in Chloe's & Lana's dorm for Lana to find them, they had it in the loft and created this problem.


Originally posted by seannyd
Lana has *****ed and moaned for five years about secrets and lies yet she is one of the worst perpetrators and STILL she is put on a pedestal by most characters of the show.

Hahahaha. So true.


Originally posted by seannyd
Clark acts surprised that Lana doesn't care about his powers, but he shouldn't be because he asked her to MARRY HIM and she said "Yeah, let's do it."

What episode are you talking about? Promise? In Promise, he didn't know that she knew about his powers. I don't think he asked her to marry him in Phantom. And in Phantom, he didn't find out that Lana found out the secret before she planned to leave Lex at the altar. If you mean Reckoning, I wouldn't count that since too many things happened since Reckoning for him to think she would accept him. I would give them a pass on this if I wasn't driven so crazy with how he still goes after her when in season 3 he knew it would never work.


Originally posted by seannyd
And Lionel, oh GOD, Lionel. The single worst act of inconsistency on the show is with this character. John Glover does an absolutely brilliant job with the part, but his constant flip-flopping between good and evil has made me want to gouge out my own eyes. And it's almost never addressed.

Well, he hasn't really flipped since season 4. They try to write him as mysterious so that the viewers don't know if he's good or evil. I think sometimes they get carried away too far. Like in Reckoning when he met Jonathan. His approach did not seem like that of a good guy. Also his reaction to the video and the way he spoke to Lois in Noir was the same thing. I think it was stupid to have Lionel join forces with Clark at the end of season 5 with Clark finally learning to trust him and then for Clark to again question his allegiances during season 6 only to arrive at the same scenario (Clark working with Lionel). I still don't know why he resorted to all that crap with forcing Lana to marry Lex when he could have easily spoken to Clark and had him use his superspeed to spy on Lex and find out about the phantom and the prototype.


Originally posted by seannyd
The fact is that Gough and Millar are never going to care about the internal consistencies of their characters and that will never be fixed. In order to fix these mistakes it would require characters that make similar decisions in similar situations. That does not happen often here on Smallville.

I know.


Originally posted by seannyd
But let me be clear that I am not bashing individuals who are not bothered by these inconsistencies. As I have stated many times before, I watch the show for the greatness that lies within it, hoping for it to shine through. I watch for the momentary glimpses of astonishment that strike me a few times during a given season. And I will continue watching until the very end.

I'm not bashing anyone either. I just wish the show could live up to its true potential. It truly did in the first few seasons. I just can't believe what a great job they did. But lately, I've been waiting for a payoff and I'm just not getting it. This thing with Kara IMO is a big mistake. They should save her for season 8. They should get the most out of the Clark-Lex interaction with season 7 being Michael's last season, and with Kara, I doubt this will happen if Clark has to babysit her. There's more than enough for them to do with wrapping up the characters of Lionel, Chloe, Lana, and Lex in season 7 without Kara. Kara should have filled some of that void in season 8 after those characters are gone.


Originally posted by seannyd
But at this point, I feel that not only does Smallville NOT correct its mistakes, but that it will not and does not care to. They have gone this long without making the changes that they should and I do not see why they would start now.

I think they're making bigger mistakes if you ask me. If they do a half-assed job at wrapping these characters up at the expense of having Kara on the show, I think many fans will be pissed.


Originally posted by hassenmorad
^^^
Xrayvision, I think you have just pointed out the smoking gun in this debate. The fact that Clark appeared to have disappeared when he supersped from Lana's pt. of view clearly indicates that there were differences between what she saw/heard and what actually occured. Would the writers really introduce this view (of Clark's speeding away from a human's point of view) at this specific moment if they weren't trying to show that the scene was specifically different from the first one? I don't think so.

There is no question that it was a different view. But as to why the lines were different makes no sense, unless they want to show us that Lana has brain damage that causes her to hear things differently or is some sort of meteor freak herself.

One thing I'm pretty sure of is that Promise will most likely have commentary. As to whether or not they will say something about it is something else.

Here's the Pulp Fiction site that talks about the exact same thing that happened in that movie:

http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/7606/faq.htm

Check out this question:

Why are Honey Bunny's lines different from the beginning of the film and at the end?
A lot of people seem to think this is a mistake. My opinion is that Tarantino was showing us the difference between perceptions of different people in the diner, the second time being Jules' perception. It makes little sense for Tarantino to shoot the scene twice, unless there was a reason.

It still doesn't make sense to me. Why would one person hear different words than other? Unless it's a recollection, which this episode wasn't set up as.

Perhaps it was done to copy the movie since just like Pulp Fiction, the story in Promise kept jumping and was not in chronological order. Was it some sort of homage to that movie?

[seannyd]

Originally posted by xrayvision
What episode are you talking about? Promise? In Promise, he didn't know that she knew about his powers. I don't think he asked her to marry him in Phantom. And in Phantom, he didn't find out that Lana found out the secret before she planned to leave Lex at the altar. If you mean Reckoning, I wouldn't count that since too many things happened since Reckoning for him to think she would accept him. I would give them a pass on this if I wasn't driven so crazy with how he still goes after her when in season 3 he knew it would never work.

I can't think of the specific episodes but I am referring to Groundhog Day/Reckoning in which Clark KNOWS Lana is ok with the powers. Then, maybe it was when Lex had powers, he says something along the lines of "And you'd be ok with Lex being different?" which seemed to me to be a question to which he already had the answer. And yes, you are completely right over the season 3 issue.