Lionel Questions (Merged) [Archive] - KSiteTV Television & Movie Forums

nathanjamesk1

03-15-2007, 07:43 PM

i think that Lionel has had more than one motive in this epy

1) he's been trying to mend that father son relationship, and would do what it takes to strenghten that, even at the cost of his second goal, which is:
2) protect Clark, he knows Clark wants lana, and lana wants clark. but he also wants to protect clark, since Lex would probally go after Clark any way possible if Lana ran off with Clark.

3) distiling power. Lex has to go on his honeymoon for a while, so nobody but.... you guessed it, daddy luther, lionel himself will be incharge while lex is gone

Dark Knight23

03-15-2007, 07:43 PM

I don't like your icon myankent but Lionel was great in this epi. Maybe we get to see his true motives soon.

coasterprincess

03-15-2007, 07:44 PM

^ i don't think so...but I'm pretty sure other first-hand deaths were more self-defense or defense of others in immediate danger (not covering your own sorry butt from a blackmailer)

That slap however....very nice

jazzylg

03-15-2007, 07:45 PM

The MB is back! However, if clark was as ruthless as Zod, or on Red K(which I don't think Lionel is aware of) Lionel would be dead meat, even with green k!

meteor_phreak

03-15-2007, 07:46 PM

i think they might have over-did the bastardness of the magnifcent one. to quick a swing and waaaaay too far unless they fill in more details later.

jimmyolsenblues

03-15-2007, 07:46 PM

MB was swinging at anything that moved.
Where has he been ? What is his true motive.
Great Backhand slap to lex, and words were worse.

Kid Collins

03-15-2007, 07:47 PM

Yeah, Lionel owned everybody but especially Lex.

I think they just ruined Lex's cred as the future megalomaniac and worst enemy of Clark Kent.

He was just pathetic in this ep.

lilkoolmaria

03-15-2007, 07:47 PM

Um, YEAH he did!

BeldarofRemulak

03-15-2007, 07:49 PM

I honestly think he knew that Lex would fall off the deepend if he lost Lana. Plus he does love his son in a weird way. I think he was trying to save Lex (and Clark in a way) by forcing her to marry him.

RedLex82

03-15-2007, 07:54 PM

I have to admit that after all the episode buildup - I figured this would be a complete letdown.

But the writers had some tricks in store which just reminded me why i'm still watching after 6 seasons.

The fact that Lana found out underhandedly by exploiting Chloe, and then the MB just playing the absolute trump card was damn great.

I just hope we don't follow up this episode with a bunch of awful ones (ala every episode that followed Rosetta in S2)

HowardFilms

03-15-2007, 07:55 PM

Nah, the reason was in that last scene. Lex owes him for the other thing too. MB is collecting favors, for what...well, it isn't gonna be good, that's for sure.

Think about it, the Kents owe him, Lex owes him. MB has a plan in the works, and it must be a big one because he turned down control of Luthorcorp and 33.1...(which actually wouldn't be a very good deal because Oliver is off blowing up all 33.1's assets)

MetroGirl06

03-15-2007, 07:56 PM

"I will KILL Clark Kent." loved lionel in this one moment.

Especially when he slapped Lex! When Martha marries Lionel, hopefully he could smack some sense into clark!

ChlarkMe

03-15-2007, 07:57 PM

Lionel loves Lex in his twisted way and does want him to be happy, but at the same time they have always been competitors. Lionel wants his "POWER" back. Lana makes Lex weak and that's how Lionel wants it. So, as proven in the episode. As long as Lex makes a fool of himself over Lana, Lionel has the upper hand. He did extract a promise from Lex. Maybe that's the important one. When he calls it in It's going to be huge.

STFanatic

03-15-2007, 07:57 PM

The bitxh slap was GREAT!
I loved it, but the wimpy Lex ruined it, I was thinking for a minute that was the moment Lex would knock off his dad.

Chokito

03-15-2007, 07:59 PM

Originally posted by SmallvilleMan
Or maybe he really wants Lex to be happy.

also i think lionel see the path lex is going down
and the think lana will be good for him

freefall

03-15-2007, 07:59 PM

Originally posted by jadkins555
Lionel has:

1) Offered to have Martha shoot him to protect Clark
2) Tell Clark he had to kill Lex to prevent Zod
3) Shot Jason to protect Clark's secret
4) Paid off the investigator and burned the photo of Clark using superspeed

We absolutely have no way of knowing that Lionel is doing all these just because of some altruistic motivations to protect Clark. Right now, he's the only who got all the cards in his hands. He knows everything that the others can only dream to know about. He told Clark to kill in Oracle before he was told it would be Lex. After knowing who's going to be the vessel, he rushed off to see his own son.

At this point of time, I'd say everyone is just playing along with him so not to be the one to lit the fuse and set him off, especially those who are really trying to protect Clark, i.e. Martha and Chloe. As for Lex, he has his own interest with Lionel regarding 33.1, but Lionel also knows about Clark, on which Lex still has no clue about it. (Unless he's also playing his own game on this.)

Clark saw right through him in Mercy, he wouldn't be so self-sacrificing unless he knew the gun wasn't loaded. The clincher was in Fallout, where Lex also saw right through him when he said Lionel has been putting so much effort into fooling the Kents that he's a good man, he's starting to believe it himself. And Lionel didn't even deny it.

do3mire

03-15-2007, 08:06 PM

Whatever his motives, it will be fun to watch. Lionel was the best part in the epi. The rest was drivel.

Ilovebeinglost

03-15-2007, 08:11 PM

100% power over everything and everybody.

He wants contro over Luthercorp and Lex too. He was never going to kill Clark but he knew Lana would do it and marry Lex and if she didn't he'd have no power over lex

Kid Collins

03-15-2007, 08:11 PM

I think he wanted to help Lex because he knew that he would be indebted to him forever for getting what he wanted most. Lana.

Deana

03-15-2007, 08:15 PM

His motive was to prove he's the King Luthor and Lex is just an annoying brat in love.

I loved his scenes.

the highlander

03-15-2007, 08:17 PM

There are many possible reasons... but... I do think that he made the best choice. I am hoping LL comes out as a good and changed person. I know people can change. That would also drive Lex to the end... His father choosing another son before him... Kind of like "Gladiator".

He also wanted to help lex...

What made me think that was... the way he welcomed lana... it was NICE... it means he is happy she is there.

monet

03-15-2007, 08:24 PM

Now the same thing she has been angry at clark for she is doing and that is keeping secrets.

jimmyolsenblues

03-15-2007, 08:33 PM

i think when lana finds out she is not pregnant. lionel is a dead man.

Darth Pipes

03-15-2007, 08:35 PM

This is what Clark and Martha get for mixing in with Lionel Luthor. They seemingly have ignored the role he played in Jonathan's death.

Tomsgurl88

03-15-2007, 08:38 PM

Lana should of blackmailed Lionel by threatening to tell Martha on him :lol:

Best Episode - 321

03-15-2007, 08:38 PM

No clue what his plan is, but I'm sure that Lana is the sacrificial lamb so to speak. She is the pawn that Lionel is using to get whatever it is he wants.

So what does he want?

chloesmygirl

03-15-2007, 08:41 PM

I'm beginning to think daddy Lionel never lost control. He's just been biding his time til now. I think it's a lock now that he will die sooner or later and Lex will be the one to off him.

idunowinks

03-15-2007, 08:46 PM

well what would you do in that situation, its hard, my first instinct would be to tell clark, and make him superspeed away somewhere where no1 will ever find them, but that would be the end of the show lol. she doesnt want to put clark in danger she wnats to protect him like she knows hes been doing for her for years

meteor_phreak

03-15-2007, 08:52 PM

Originally posted by ClowRegulus
Kick Lionel's ****, for sure! either i can't count, you can't spell, or i have no idea what you're trying to say:lol:

on topic: I would have liked to see her check with other people, since she knows she's coming late to the game.

however, we already know she isn't too bright, i mean c'mon...leaving the cold-feet letter on the table when the MB walks in??? dude, eff!!!

caradoc

03-15-2007, 08:59 PM

Why did Lana believe him when he said he could kill Clark? Shouldn't she have at least talked to Chloe?

Jack-El49

03-15-2007, 09:02 PM

I would have had her call Chloe, confess that she saw and heard everything that occurred in the cellar, and ask Chloe if it is possible to kill Clark and if anyone in SV had the means to do so. At least she could have then known whether or not the threat was credible. Then decide whether to call Clark or tell someone else.

She's given in to blackmail and once she's done that, it will just get worse for her.

Meteor phreak: maybe CR was referring to Lionel's part that roughly occupies the same lattitude but on the opposite side of the body! LOL

Rift

03-15-2007, 09:05 PM

She should have responded:

"I won't tell just anyone Lionel...I'll only tell one person that you threatened to kill Clark: Martha Kent."

Done.

tevster

03-15-2007, 09:17 PM

This Lionel we're talking about. He's power hungry. But there are several reasons for why he confronted Lana and Lex.

Okay I know things change over seasons but doesn't anyone remember why Lionel was so obsessed with Clark before he went good?(Im pretty sure he wanted to use his blood for rejuvenating purposes or something like that) If anyone has a clue as why the Smallville world is so messed up its Clark. He knows how important Clark is and knows damn well to keep him alive. With Lex, Clark is the only one who can stop whatever "baby issues" that led Lex to kill the Doctor. That may explain why lionel said no to control over Luthorcorp and 33.1. And even it is the "baby", Lionel wouldnt tell him there to stop watever he's doing. It would ruin the rest of the season....

So Im all for the reasoning that making lana marry lex is to protect clark from lex.

I just realized Lana is such a tool. Probably Clark aswell

I think all this (the "baby", lionel collecting from lex) will come together at the end of the season, probably with some kind of Phantom Zone thing attached to it too....

Nospam

03-15-2007, 09:19 PM

While we may never know Lionel's true motivations, I am sure that coupons were involved.

Heyyu

03-15-2007, 09:24 PM

Anyone else think Lionel is the master poker player? He bluffed and Lana folded. Lionel was never really going to kill Clark.

boywithbluehanger

03-15-2007, 09:24 PM

I think the whole Lionel=Jor-El theory is somehow intertwined with his decisions. I think Jor-El is forcing his will to be played out by channeling his intentions through Lionel.

Which would explain why he wants to get close to Martha (to gain Clark's trust) and why he threatens Lana (in order to get Clark's mind off of fairytale romance and instead focus on accepting his duties ...you know, like putting away the zoners and completing his FoS training...)

Rift

03-15-2007, 09:31 PM

Is it possible he is channeling Jor El, who we know will do just about anything to keep Clark from "settling down" and ignoring his responsibility/destiny?

Edit: dammit--beaten to the punch. :D

Jack-El49

03-15-2007, 09:34 PM

Knowledge is power. Lionel has the knowledge thus he has the power and used it in tonight's episode. Now he has the upper hand on Lex, on Lana, and on Clark, in a way.

Surely he can justify his actions if they are ever revealed by saying he was trying to help Clark move on and accept his destiny. But his real reason, IMHO, is that he played all his chips tonight and now has everyone by the short-hairs.

Smallville's Oracle

03-15-2007, 09:56 PM

Maybe since the fortress of solitude was set up Lionel has been Jor-el.

youandme

03-15-2007, 10:03 PM

We knew Lionel would return to his evil self!! What timing he has huh? WOw, I love watching JOhn Glover. He is soooo mean! He is a great actor. HE showed more than ever in this episode why Lex becomes who he is!

michaelcox

03-15-2007, 10:05 PM

Was it just me, or did Lionel seem to be doing that whole "Superhearing thing" when Lex was talking on his cell phone to the Good Doctor?

Who

03-15-2007, 10:06 PM

The episode was soapy and sappy as heck, but it's one saving grace is the Lionel is returning to his old ways. Ohhhh Yeah!

BABarracus

03-15-2007, 10:06 PM

Originally posted by Sk8erGur1
Yeah right.

lex is the future of lexcorp meaning lex kill some one sloppy over lana so what happens lex must marry lana to keep lex the super genus criminal instead of the stupid babbling criminal

lionel did it for lexcorp future

as for clark lionel knows clark wont enslave the earth over lana

lionel fears what lex will do with his power in a unstable state

svsabbiesv

03-15-2007, 10:07 PM

John Glover rockS!

fasterthenflash

03-15-2007, 10:07 PM

who here actualy thought linola was becoming good? why is he protecting his son so much now? did he black mail lana just to have lex "owe him on" or was it really for the love of his son?

and what do you think he will ask in return?

citizenlen

03-15-2007, 10:11 PM

Lionel said, when he comes to collect it will be huge. Maybe Lionel knows the secret about Lana's baby. And maybe the payment will be this baby. To support this theory, Lex had the dream about the baby and it gave him that freaky look. Maybe Lionel knows the baby is some experiment.

harryandginnyfanatic

03-15-2007, 10:12 PM

Lionel doesn't want Lana getting in the way of Clarks destiny.

niki

03-15-2007, 10:19 PM

Originally posted by tevster
That may explain why lionel said no to control over Luthorcorp and 33.1.

He didn't necessarily say no.
He just said, "You'll know when I'm here to collect."
Which proves that we don't really know what he's in for.
It might or might not be Luthorcorp/33.1.

Lionel knows his son is pretty much desperate for Lana since he'd "do anything" if he lost her. So maybe he knows that if Lana returned to Clark, Lex might try to harm Clark which means that he would find out Clark's secret and err ... ruin the entire show? LOL.

Who knows what Lionel's really thinking!
But I'm eager to find out. ;)

InLove_with_Chloe

03-15-2007, 10:20 PM

Originally posted by jimmyolsenblues
I am struggling with Lionel's motives.
1) force lana to marry lex.
2) lie to lex about clark during justice.

Will the real MB or powerpuff please stand up?
Ooooh, he better have a secret agenda, otherwise....
:mad:

Who

03-15-2007, 10:25 PM

Originally posted by harryandginnyfanatic
Lionel doesn't want Lana getting in the way of Clarks destiny.

That's what I was thinking.

TerraMan

03-15-2007, 10:25 PM

this epi really clears up which side of the fence Lionel is in.

nabadua

03-15-2007, 10:26 PM

Originally posted by harryandginnyfanatic
Lionel doesn't want Lana getting in the way of Clarks destiny.

Absolutely, 100%. All the evidence ( supplied earlier in this thread ) points to everything Lionel does to keeping Clark seperate from 'human' dramas to push him toward his destiny. Not only will Lana marrying Lex fend off Lex's dangerous and impending evil turn, but keep Lana from distracting Clark AND possibly making Clark so embittered that he will seek refuge in training himself for his future.

JorEl has chosen the perfect vessel in Lionel. No one else would have the balls and deviousness to pull this off.

Lex is a god

03-15-2007, 10:28 PM

No matter what Lionel will never turn his back on Lex. He had a choice to do so and he didn't. In his own dysfunctional way he loves Lex and knew if Lana didn't marry him it would have hurt him quite deeply and he couldn't have that! I love when Lionel is evil!!!

Spirit Detective

03-15-2007, 10:28 PM

Lionel is the MAGNIFICENT BASTARD!

Notice how Lex offered Luthorcorp AND 33.1 to Lionel.

Reminds me of the Lionel in Sneeze and how he used Clark to save Lex.

Azurewrath

03-15-2007, 10:29 PM

How come in Justice(I think?) When lex tells Lionel that one of his workers thought one of the 'bad guys' looked like Clark, Lionel totally covered up for Clark, to save him... But now he's doing practically the complete opposite?
Threatening to kill Clark for Lex now?

Did I miss something?

D:

Lex is a god

03-15-2007, 10:32 PM

Lionel has his own agenda but he would never sacrifice Lex not even for Clark.

bosox188

03-15-2007, 10:34 PM

Every post on this I have seen speculates that Lionel still loves Lex in some sort of way and that is why he forced Lana into marrying Lex. But as we see at the end of the episode, Lionel is aware of whatever the truth is about Lana's pregnancy. He is clearly angry at Lex for being so sloppy with the doctor and is afraid of Lex blowing the whole thing.

That brings me to Lionel's motives. Lionel obviously has an interest in Lana's baby, and he may believe that Lana must marry Lex so things may continue to go as planned. Lana calling off the wedding and going to Clark would spell trouble for the Luthors. I also want to add that Lionel has Lex in quite a vulnerable position. Lex was offering him anything he wanted even 33.1.

driv-el

03-15-2007, 10:38 PM

Lionel didn't disappoint, that's always good to see.
Originally posted by do3mire
The rest was drivel. Don't discount the Shelby scene!

KKrazy

03-15-2007, 10:39 PM

THE MB RETURNS!! Who saw it? I did!! The way he blackmailed Lana to marry Lex, lol!!! He is good no more. I knew it wouldn't last long!!

InLove_with_Chloe

03-15-2007, 10:39 PM

Lionel was the only good thing today. Thank god the MB is back...

Azurewrath

03-15-2007, 10:40 PM

Also, maybe Lex is periodically doing something to Lana, injecting her, or something, what would require her to be with Lex for the baby to turn out how Lionel wants it.

If she went with Clark, Lex would stop giving her injections or whatever, and the baby wouldn't be right.

Or maybe because Lionel wants the baby, and if Lana wasnt with Lex, he couldnt get it.

Or maybe Lionel wants Lana to be with Lex so Clark has nothing blocking him from his destiny.

Or maybe since Lionel asked what he'd do to make sure Lana showed to the wedding(To which he said 'Anything'), Lionel was afraid that if Lana left Lex for Clark, Lex would catch on and find out about Clark's secret.

Or maybe , Lionels afraid that if Lex leaves him for Clark, Lex might kill lana, and the baby would be gone.

Azurewrath

03-15-2007, 10:42 PM

What's MB stand for? something to do with Lionel Luthor? Mr. Bennet?(lol jk),,
Mean Bastard?

bosox188

03-15-2007, 10:42 PM

Hmm it's interesting that there are some possible motives that would have Lionel still being a good guy. The problem is that he's still got that kryptonian stuff going on and has been serving as Clark's ally. If he is still good that was some nice acting on the part of Lionel because he sure seemed like a MB.

lillie_poo_pod

03-15-2007, 10:43 PM

It's really sad when I can't even get excited about MB coming back. I'm seriously depressed. And I didn't even watch the episode. I just went back to see the Chlark scene and how Lana locked Chloe in the cellar. O I got the end too waiting for Supernatural.

Originally posted by Azurewrath
What's MB stand for? something to do with Lionel Luthor? Mr. Bennet?(lol jk),,
Mean Bastard?

Magnificent Bastard.

DarthJay

03-15-2007, 10:52 PM

I don't think he has any good intentions at all.

He knows Clark's secret and his weakness.
He has Lex by the joojoos to the point that Lex has offered up everything to him.
He knows everything about 33.1.
He has Martha Kent snowed.
He knows that Lex is fathering some sort of mutant baby -- and he obviously wants it ("I'll be there to take what I want when the time comes" -- duh!).

All the cards are in Lionel's hand. Even if he did go good for a while, that's too many lures back to the darkside...especially for a Luthor.

It's funny - at the end of the episode when Lionel told Lana "Welcome to the family, Mrs. Luthor" - there was a moment when Lex and Lana looked at each other when that they could see the pain in each others eyes that Lionel had caused both of them. Am I the only one that saw that?

Atomic girl

03-15-2007, 10:54 PM

Azurewrath

03-15-2007, 10:57 PM

Damn. Close.

DarthJay

03-15-2007, 10:58 PM

The only way Lionel's actions make any sense if you still believe he's good, is that he now believes it would be a bad idea if Clark ended up with Lana, or Lex would stop at nothing to find out Clarks' secret when Lana left.

We'll see - but I just don't think that is the case. I think Lionel is in it all or nothing now. He wants to unlock the power of Kryptonian technology and he's so close to doing it.

Remember the episode a few weeks back when Lionel was sitting at his desk studying some of the scribbles he had made when he was possessed by Jor-El? When Clark walked into the room, Lionel looked at him and immedialtely hid the scribbles. Why would he do that if he had Clark's best intentions in mind? There would be nothing to hide...

Azurewrath

03-15-2007, 11:02 PM

I totally hope that Lionel is trying to get Lana out of Clarks life so he can fulfill his destiny without her in the way or something.

I really want Lionel to be good.

He rocks

Zooks

03-15-2007, 11:03 PM

lionel doesn't want lex to be evil (ie Mercy when he said he had been acting MB-like post-Transference because he wanted lex to turn towards good after the dark he saw in Onyx). lana is the only thing between lex and evil...

staph

03-15-2007, 11:05 PM

Hate to burst your bubble but you need to watch the epi again apparently. There is no baby . That is what Lionel knows also. Sorry did not mean to spoil it for you but "No Baby" Everything is a lie. Pay attention fellas. I know the writing is bad but it is easy to follow. The picture on the screen was a replay of someone elses baby. It has already been established that there is not a baby.

Spirit Detective

03-15-2007, 11:05 PM

Originally posted by nabadua
Absolutely, 100%. All the evidence ( supplied earlier in this thread ) points to everything Lionel does to keeping Clark seperate from 'human' dramas to push him toward his destiny. Not only will Lana marrying Lex fend off Lex's dangerous and impending evil turn, but keep Lana from distracting Clark AND possibly making Clark so embittered that he will seek refuge in training himself for his future.

JorEl has chosen the perfect vessel in Lionel. No one else would have the balls and deviousness to pull this off.

I can only hope this is Lionel's agenda. Though it does make sense that if Clark were to marry Lana, he would probably abandon his training.

kyl-el

03-15-2007, 11:21 PM

Lionel is pure evil. Think about it, he has almost everyone in his hip-pocket. He knows Clark's secret, he keeps getting closer to Martha, he knows about 33.1, Lex is willing to give up anything to him for Lana's sake, He also knows that Lana knows about Clark and he uses it to blackmail her. The MB holds all of the cards right now.

myankskent

03-15-2007, 11:24 PM

Lionel is one of the only reasons to watch this episode, although I don't understand why he gives a damn that Lana marries Lex. Even Lionel admits that Lana has made Lex go soft, so why the hell is he encouraging this marriage. He better have a good reason or else Lionel has just done one of the worst things that he has ever done on this show as far as I'm concerned, and you can add being a plot device to the list. It seems like everyone was a plot device this episode.

alienkinfolk

03-15-2007, 11:31 PM

Originally posted by Azurewrath
I totally hope that Lionel is trying to get Lana out of Clarks life so he can fulfill his destiny without her in the way or something.

I really want Lionel to be good.

He rocks

I agree with u because i feel Lionel has never cared for Lana at all. And since Lionel admires Clark so, he baited Lana and she took it.
Lionel knows how to play everyone in SV....excellent;)

Hoogys

03-15-2007, 11:34 PM

Okay here is the way I see it.
first of all I now know that Lionel is evil or at least he still has evil in him. For all the reasons that kyl-el had mentioned.
Everything he did today was for good reason. Yes he cares about clark and would protect his secret. but his son is more important.
and he knew that if lana bailed out. it would crush lex and totally transform him forever. so at all cost Lionel was trying to prevent that from happening. Maybe he would of never killed clark we dont know that. but lets say he was bluffing. just that fact that he said it. in my book makes him bad.

i think that was one reason he was mad at lex when he found out about the body.

Titan27

03-15-2007, 11:43 PM

Lionel is confusing in a specific sense. What I mean by that is I don't know his true motivations but I truly believe that Lionel is evil. Because I have read quite a bit of books about Greek/Roman mythology and comics are loosely based off of that. Lionel has to be evil because we all know that Lex will become the #1 villain for Clark in the future. For Lex to become the most evil person in the "Smallville" universe he needs to kill the most evil person there is currently in the 'throne.' And the most evil person consistently throughout the show has been Lionel. You can never know what his motivations are; and Lex will only become the most evil person when he kills his father. The villain doesn't become the main villain by killing the hero. He has to kill the person who is stopping him from becoming the most evil person in the world.

I completely agree with this

BTW; does Lionel even know if there is anything that can kill Clark? I don't remember him ever knowing about kryptonite?

Originally posted by Hoogys
first of all I now know that Lionel is evil or at least he still has evil in him. For all the reasons that kyl-el had mentioned.
Everything he did today was for good reason. Yes he cares about clark and would protect his secret. but his son is more important.
and he knew that if lana bailed out. it would crush lex and totally transform him forever. so at all cost Lionel was trying to prevent that from happening.
Maybe he would of never killed clark we dont know that. but lets say he was bluffing. just that fact that he said it. in my book makes him bad.
[/B]

BTW; does Lionel even know if there is anything that can kill Clark? I don't remember him ever knowing about kryptonite?

bugaloo

03-15-2007, 11:48 PM

What if Lion-el blackmailed Lana because if she actually left and decided not to marry Lex, he (Lex) would know that Lana finally found out Clark's secret?

He knows that Lana couldn't be with Clark because he always kept things to himself..

maybe that was it.

Remember the 100th episode when Lex saw Lana's wedding ring and he abruptly came to the conclusion that Clark told Lana the truth about himself?

Kinda ties in..

But Lionel is a really cunning man.

bigv

03-15-2007, 11:49 PM

That's a good point, I can't think of him every knowing about k either.

However, in response to the Lionel= good or bad question, I say DEFINATELY bad. We gotta look at this in the context of the whole show and he's been bad the whole time (except that corny break in season 4). But ever since he's come back from his "break with reality" in season 4, he's been confusing. but I think he's just taking his time and getting all his pawns in place. He's planning to take Luthercorp back from Lex (which is why he wanted Lana to marry him- he knows that Lex is less focused with her around), he's trying to gain Clark's trust to use him in the future, all the while trying to figure out how to get some from Martha. PURE EVIL! He hasn't fooled me for a minute. Different hair every season but the same snake!

All about Clark

03-15-2007, 11:53 PM

Yes he does know about Kryptonite.

I have to agree, Lionel is turning bad for acting as if he would kill Clark, he was convincing, and I think Lionel thinks he can save Lex from himself, and it doesn't matter how dirty he gets to achieve his goals. Lionel fully knows he's hurting both Clark and Lana and doesn't care because he has a purpose relating to Lex and something he wants Lex to do.

Indira Kal

03-15-2007, 11:53 PM

i think you're probably right. no baby, just th wool being pulled over lana's eyes, thats all...

Piiike

03-16-2007, 12:03 AM

Originally posted by Azurewrath
I totally hope that Lionel is trying to get Lana out of Clarks life so he can fulfill his destiny without her in the way or something.

I really want Lionel to be good.

He rocks

I agree. I think Lionel probably knows there's something bad lurking in space that could pose a threat to earth and Clark is the only one that can stop it and Lana is his hurdle that he can't overcome so Lionel put her out of Clark's life for good.

Sayzak

03-16-2007, 12:04 AM

Lionel is keeping Clark's secret from Lex because Lionel wants that power to himself. Remember, over the course of the entire series Lex has been angry at his father, and his father has always cast a shadow over him, even from prison. They've been at each other's throats for years. Lionel lost a big chunk of his power to his son, but having the leverage of Clark's secret puts him in the front.

He'll play nice until he can do something with that power.

thedean123

03-16-2007, 12:33 AM

Here's my take on it, Lionel is 100 percent bad. Everything he did in this episode was totally for personal gain and to put him in a power position.

1. Finally he plays the Clark card, he's been holding this ace in his pocket for a very long time and he finally played it, if he was doing this with Clarks best interest involved given the relationship with Martha this subject would have been touched on long ago.
2. Pushing lana to the alter has little to with giving a damn about his sons feelings, this gives him something over lex with the whole murder of a Dr and whatever this secret is about Lana's baby. Plus he knows Lana makes Lex vulnerable and this is just one more piece of the puzzle.

I think in the next little while we'll see some cards played as far as Chloe as a meteor freak and even using martha's power in the senate. Lets face it Luthors are all about one this and thats power, an Lionel has been sitting on the side lines for a long time now.

not to mention i thought it was a really good point that someone brought up the point that at some time lex is going to have to kill off the top villian in order to become #1

Titan27

03-16-2007, 12:35 AM

How does Lionel know about the kryptonite? He was never told it by Martha or Chloe? Especially since they know Clark doesn't trust him? And when Lana found out kryptonians can be killed by kryptonite; Lionel was incapacitated because he was Jor-El's oracle at the time. When and how did Lionel find out about kryptonite?

Or was Lionel just alluding to the fact that Clark's "achille's heel" is the fact that he cares about Chloe and Martha? The hero's "weakness" is always the fact that they can never kill the villain or let people die when their time is up! The last theory is just a question to all of you.

Chlois Supporter

03-16-2007, 01:20 AM

Okay, here's my theory about Lionel. And its gonna sound a bit out there, but hear me out.

Lionel is bad, but he's not evil. He's doing bad things, but not for evil purposes. Everything he's done so far, all the bad things, have been for one purpose. To keep Lex from going down the path we all know is inevitable for him. Lionel knows the kind of evil that is in his son, he's seen it, he's witnessed Lex at his worst, and he knows from Onyx that it gets a whole lot worse than he ever imagined. He knows he created a monster inside of Lex, and he knows from Onyx that a man can't deny his true nature. That Lex, and him, will always be evil men. I believe though, that he's realized Lex will never change, but the only way to protect people from Lex is to keep him from gaining real power. Hence why he helped the Kents win the election. So that Lex wouldn't have politcal power. Hence why he blackmailed Lex with the 33.1 knowledge. So that he can keep an eye on his son and make sure that Lex doesn't abuse the power of the meteor freaks. I think when he asked Lex "What would you be willing to do to make sure that Lana is standing next to you at that altar?" It was a "how far are you willing to go" type of question. He was testing Lex to see what would happen if she wasn't there. And the moment Lex said "anything" he knew that if Lana wasn't there, if she left him, that Lex would lose the only good thing in his life that's keeping him from crossing that line.

I honestly don't believe Lionel was going to kill Clark. He knows that if Lex goes down the path of no return, that Clark's the only one who can protect the world from Lex. But he also knew that the only way to make sure Lana didn't leave Lex, was to put pressure on Lana to marry him. And the only way to do that was to threaten Clark's life. He knew that Lana would do anything to protect Clark, and he knew that she'd only marry Lex if his life was in danger.

Than Lionel found out about Lex killing the doctor, and made his whole statement of "I guess no matter how hard you try some bad habits you just can't kill" or something of that effect to Lex, and slugged him one. He was pissed because he knew that Lex had already taken that first step across the line of no return. He now knows to the extent Lex will go to protect his "investments" like Lana, his marriage, Luthorcorp, and 33.1. So now Lionel's gonna try and find a way to take all of it away from Lex and leave him with nothing, but its going to fail, and Lex is going to kill him.

Oh, and Titan, Lionel remembers everything that happens when he's being the vessel for Jor-El. He remembers it all, he just didn't understand it. He couldn't read Kryptonian, but he regonized it. Thats how he knew all about Clark, cause he remembers when he's possesed by Jor-El.

Reign

03-16-2007, 02:47 AM

Nah. Lionel is evil. Lex is evil. It's the Luthor legacy. I wouldn't be surprised if the writers took some wild plottwist and say that Lionel has become obsessed with the idea of bodily possession (witnessing Zod possess Lex and having Jor-El possess him), that he wants to use some technology or meteor freak power to take over Lex's body and become the new Lex Luthor.

I'm just kidding, but Lionel has is own agenda... most likely with the child. I think spoilers reveal that the child is miscarried, but perhaps that is staged. Lana might be the surrogate of some Luthor spawn/clone or something... maybe Con-El?

ClarkRules!

03-16-2007, 02:50 AM

even tho his eyes were white, Lionel was the one who told Lana that "their home is their poison", regarding the Kryptonians that came out of the ship.

AND.......even tho Lex accused Lionel of trying to trick the Kents into thinking he was good, i don't think Jor-el would let him hurt Clark.

We'll have to see how it goes, but it's possible that Lionel wanted Lana to marry Lex because if Lex lost Lana to Clark at the 11th hour he would have gone after Clark with a vengeance, and once Lana knew the secret, not to mention the way he had Chloe strapped to that table, someone would crack.

so it could have been an attempt to actually SAVE Clark's life.

Since Lex is "the villian of the story". maybe Lionel is not.

it will be interesting to see, especially from something Lex said in the previews for next week!

The real question is, how did Lionel know Lex killed that doctor and that the body was in that ossuary?

hmmm........

j-kent

03-16-2007, 02:57 AM

simply he's just manipulating

somehow he can find a way to make everyone his puppets!

Reign

03-16-2007, 03:01 AM

Ockham's Razor please.

Lionel has hidden agendas. He has separate agendas with Lex, with Martha, with Clark, with Chloe... now, alluding to the questionable nature of Lana's pregnancy, he has an agenda with her as well.

If people on here believe he's good, then Lionel has an agenda with you too and it's working.

SuperJedi

03-16-2007, 03:21 AM

I watched last night, and really mad Lana married Lex, because Lionel threaten to KILL Clark!

I believe it maybe Jor-EL inside Lionel again, the reason is he want Clark to let go of Lana, and on the path of become Superman.

I also have a feeling Lana is going to Die, soon. Now she knows Clark's secret it's VERY dangerous around Lex!!! :(

madCoder

03-16-2007, 03:22 AM

I think ultimately he blackmailed Lana to save all of "the big three" (Clark, Lex, and Lana).

He saved Lex by either keeping him sane or at least delaying the inevitable. By losing Lana, especially to Clark, it would surely send him over the edge and into darkness. Sure we know he's going there eventually, but I think Lionel still thinks his son can be saved from that destiny.

He saved Clark because, as mentioned above, Lex would probably go after Clark if he finds out that he stole the woman he loves (in a sick Oedipal kind of way). It might also keep Lex distracted so he doesn't stumble onto Clark's secret, and allows Lana (who now knows Clark's secret) to protect Clark by being close to Lex. Remember that Lionel is full of strategic quips, and I'd be surprised if the phrase "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer" hasn't been used at least a few times in the series.

And he's saving Lana because as already pointed out (and shown in the 100th episode), if Lana goes back to Clark, Lex will know that she knows his secret, and will probably try to get that information from her. In the comics, Lex tortures Lana because he knows she knows the true identity of Superman, but she doesn't crack. She doesn't tell her husband (Pete Ross) about the torture -- even when Pete becomes Lex's vice president -- because then she would have to explain about knowing Superman's identity.

And of course, Lionel has secured Clark's destiny by doing this. Yes it was blackmail, but now Clark will not be distracted from his true destiny. He must go on to become Superman and fall in love with Lois Lane. He'll always remember Lana and will always love her, but just like in the comics, he *has* to let Lana go in order to embrace his destiny.

HnK

03-16-2007, 03:24 AM

She wont die, they can't make it that different from the series. We will get some twists and turns, and Lana will most likley end up in exile. Probably with something linked to the FOS.

Reign

03-16-2007, 03:30 AM

In response:

Yes, Lionel did what he did in part to save Lex from himself.

Lionel is saving Clark? Lex doesn't know Clark's secret or weakness. If Lionel was strategic, he'd be able to mislead Lex away from Clark.

Lionel is saving Lana? He's forcing her into the cage with a tiger. I think a very probable plot development will be Lex probing Lana for what she knows about Clark.

Lionel is securing Clark's destiny? Lionel doesn't know what Clark's destiny is, regardless of being possessed by Jor-El. As far as he knows, Clark prevented Zod. Lionel doesn't have his own master plan for Clark to become Superman and save the world.

HnK

03-16-2007, 03:33 AM

God damn, its so obvious, why do you guys think he asked Lex what he was willing to do to get Lana? And didn't you see the look in his eyes afterwards. IT IS ALL ABOUT SAVING CLARK FROM LEX!

Reign

03-16-2007, 03:41 AM

He asked Lex that question to see if he can regain his power and manipulation over his son. Recall at the end of the episode that Lionel said to Lex that it will be obvious when he will want to collect his debt. Lionel knew by asking that question that he finally has Lex in his pocket... Lionel can only maintain that control by keeping Lana and Lex together.

A Lex with Lana is vulnerable. A Lex without Lana is uncontrollable.

madCoder

03-16-2007, 03:50 AM

Originally posted by Reign
He asked Lex that question to see if he can regain his power and manipulation over his son. Recall at the end of the episode that Lionel said to Lex that it will be obvious when he will want to collect his debt. Lionel knew by asking that question that he finally has Lex in his pocket... Lionel can only maintain that control by keeping Lana and Lex together.

A Lex with Lana is vulnerable. A Lex without Lana is uncontrollable. I'm not fully disagreeing with you, because MB (yes we can start calling him that again instead of Lionel ;)) ALWAYS has ulterior motives.

But when he asked Lex what he would be willing to do to make sure that Lana marries him and Lex said "anything", I don't think that was what Lionel wanted to hear, because "Anything" meant that if Lana wasn't there, Lex would never stop trying to get her back, and Lionel knew that. I'm sure he knew many people would wind up hurt or dead as a result. When Lionel heard Lex say "Anything", it wasn't the prospect of leverage that he could use with Lex that compelled him to blackmail Lana. It was the idea of minimizing the damage that would result from Lex and Lana being together.

On one hand, Lex and Lana could be married and only Lana is devastated because she was blackmailed into it. On the other hand, they could end up together years later, but only after Lex has completely destroyed any sense of a decent human being that was left within himself; he may have even gone to lengths such as killing Martha, killing Lana ("If I can't have her, no one will"), or trying to kill Clark (and either succeeding, or failing and ending up killed himself, which would equally devastate Lionel).

I really think that Lionel decided that blackmailing Lana was the "lesser of the two evils"

Reign

03-16-2007, 04:01 AM

Possibly so and I did consider that. To tell you the truth, when Lionel asked what Lex was willing to do to make sure Lana shows up at the wedding and Lex reponded with, "Anything," I thought that Lionel would give some fatherly advice saying something like, "If you love her that much, then she will be there." Instead, he responds, "I will make sure of it... I promise you" or something to that nature. His actual response reveals to me that within this reformed facade that Lionel is trying to maintain, he is still the calculating manipulator he always was. Perhaps his primary motive is to make sure that his son is happy... but I truly believe that we will see Lionel manipulating this situation to his advantage. We'll see.

madCoder

03-16-2007, 04:08 AM

Oh I'm sure he will -- as I said, Lionel always has ulterior motives. But I think his intention is less to make sure his son is happy, and more to make sure his son doesn't do something stupid. Saying "Anything" just confirms Lionel's suspicion that Lex's humanity rides on Lana being there by his side. Sure, his method was clearly less-than-gray, and he probably gains a lot from succeeding in his blackmail of Lana. Those two points prove that the "reformed" facade has been just that: a facade. But I don't think he did it cold-heartedly, or to strictly gain the upper hand. There was definitely a gray motive there that he did it for a relatively good purpose.

Reign

03-16-2007, 04:15 AM

Less than grey? So what is that... grey, right? Dark grey or light grey?

I disagree with the relatively good purpose part of your analysis. I think Lionel is an interesting character because he both loves his son and wants to maintain control over him. Those two reasons run parallel at all times and neither trumps the other. When Lionel asked what Lex was willing to do to keep Lana, I think it had the dual purpose of guaging his son's feelings for her and of guaging his son's vulnerability for him to gain the upperhand. There are many moments in the show where there are pseudo-father-son moments and they are intentionally to show the conflict between the two Luthors' relationship - each vying for one another's love and affection while harboring mutual distrust of one another.

If it's grey, I think it's dark grey.

halloween

03-16-2007, 04:23 AM

Originally posted by alienkinfolk
Lionel knows how to play everyone in SV....excellent;)

EXACTLY

ESPECIALLY XXXXXX KENT

Detorio

03-16-2007, 04:35 AM

Originally posted by kyl-el
Lionel is pure evil. Think about it, he has almost everyone in his hip-pocket. He knows Clark's secret, he keeps getting closer to Martha, he knows about 33.1, Lex is willing to give up anything to him for Lana's sake, He also knows that Lana knows about Clark and he uses it to blackmail her. The MB holds all of the cards right now.

AYE! So true. Damn that Lionel...watching him in 'Promise' made me want to give him a equal opportunity a$$whooping cos like mentioned in 'Justice' he was all buddy chummy with Clark and in 'Promise' he threatens to kill Clark...a little drastic dont you think? Sure Lionel has his own agenda as mentioned but honestly it made me freaking question where Lionel's legience with Clark lies from here on in?

...Just goes to show that Lionel's evil roots are well intact :rolleyes:

Lobby4Chloe

03-16-2007, 04:54 AM

I definitely don't believe that Lex's welfare is the reason why he blackmailed Lana. It was definitely bc he wanted leverage over Lex - but why is the main question.

Also, he sounded like he would really kill Clark - but would he?

Detorio

03-16-2007, 04:58 AM

^ Judging from the previous acts of Lionel Luthor...OH YEAH HE WOULD! I just made myself beleive that Lionel had 'actually' become good and shooken off his evil background...guess i was wrong there :lol:

thmallville

03-16-2007, 05:19 AM

It took me a long time to figure this out, but Lionel only made Lana marry Lex so he could get a favor from Lex. Apparently, he hasn't changed at all! He needs something in the future, and we don't know what yet, but he let Lex have Lana as his wife if Lex lets him have whatever it is he wants.

WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY?!?!?!?

Caper 469

03-16-2007, 05:36 AM

I feel Lionel did change in some aspects after the whole Jor-El event. I think he has changed his thinking of what's really important in the world. He knows that the world needs Clark and realizes how bad his son is getting. He had Jore-El possess him, inside of him, therefore he has knowledge of the truth. He knows that Lana is a weakness to Clark fullfing his destiny and is the only person who can help his son.

Lionel has alluded many times before that one can never really change, therefore he's using his strengths and power to try to change things for the ultimate good of the world, the only way he knows how...-through blackmail, deceipt and his evilish nature. Thats the MB that we all know and love. Don't you agree?

Dor el

03-16-2007, 05:41 AM

When Lionel was under Jor el's influence, he told Lana how to kill the Kryptonians that emerged from the ship. Ttheir home is poison. Kryptonite is their home. Lionel also knows that Clark is a Krytponian. therefore, Lionel knows K can kill Clark. Lana doesn't yet know because she doesn't yet know that Clark is Kryptonian.

Kryptonian-Ronin

03-16-2007, 06:51 AM

Lionel wants lana and lex together because he can control Lex that way.

lex even offered Lionel everything for Lana, remember?

Poor Lex, he never learnt the lessons of his father.

As for Clark, Lionel wants Clark to fulfil his destiny, for whatever reason.

Too bad things won't work it for Lionel...

jmf1

03-16-2007, 07:00 AM

I think Lionel has his own agenda.

Lex is getting more evil and Lana is making him more human. He doesn't want Lex to be a total monster and he knows he can manipulate Lex by telling him "Do this or I will spill the beans to lana." Lana is Lex's weakness.

Also, I think Lionel knows lana isn't any good for Clark who has to fulfill his destiny.

And, I agree he needs to have a few aces up his sleeve. He'll need something from Lex one day. He now has the fact that Lex did something with the Doctor out of desperation to marry her AND he has the fact that Lex murdered someone over him.

Hmmmm. Any chance lex will eliminate the MB?

hedi sweet thighs

03-16-2007, 07:08 AM

I'd hate to be in the same room when Clark finds out the Lionel gve Lana the choice to choose between him or Lex .And held back the destructive murderous ways that his son possessess.:mad:

Kryptonian-Ronin

03-16-2007, 07:09 AM

Originally posted by jmf1
I think Lionel has his own agenda.

Lex is getting more evil and Lana is making him more human. He doesn't want Lex to be a total monster and he knows he can manipulate Lex by telling him "Do this or I will spill the beans to lana." Lana is Lex's weakness.

Also, I think Lionel knows lana isn't any good for Clark who has to fulfill his destiny.

And, I agree he needs to have a few aces up his sleeve. He'll need something from Lex one day. He now has the fact that Lex did something with the Doctor out of desperation to marry her AND he has the fact that Lex murdered someone over him.

Hmmmm. Any chance lex will eliminate the MB?

If you really wanna know, check out the spoilers...

Merlindamage

03-16-2007, 07:38 AM

Its pretty evident from this episode that Lionel has something in the works. In the past, he would always just clean up after Lex and that would be the end of it. However, this time, he made sure to let Lex know that he would be calling in a favor. And, since when has Lionel ever been that concerened about how Lex felt. But he threatened to kill Clark for Lex's happiness. Why???

CKislife

03-16-2007, 07:51 AM

Because Lex is still his son. I really don't understand him as well. He is confusing and thats why we love the show so much.

Atrocity

03-16-2007, 07:55 AM

The only3 choices I see is 1. He is still good and somehow realizes that Lana marrying Lex will help clark somehow or 2 he will do anything to help his son or 3 he will use this to get back what he wants.

ATRO

dru-zod2501

03-16-2007, 09:09 AM

IMO, just saying:D

Derrickray

03-16-2007, 09:10 AM

This was a good episode but the way they wrote Lionel in seemed out of place. It seemed like they were just fishing for ideas to make Lana marry Lex and that was the best they could come up with.

It annoyed me that Lionel, just out of the blue, stated that Lana has been getting closer to learning Clark's secret. How could he just figure that out so blindly? I understand that he claims to have been watching her, but it would have made more sense to let us know that he was watching her through past episodes. Its pretty obvious that they just wrote it that way it was because they couldn't think of anything else.

Lionel has been protecting Clark's secret from Lex; even lying to Lex to keep the secret from him. Yet he threatens to kill Clark? This makes no sense considering Lionel's feelings for Martha. You could chalk it up to Lionel being evil but it seems like poor writing.

With other characters, we know they know something because its either explained clearly or we see it. Lionel just walks into a room magically knows everything.

Hydra

03-16-2007, 09:11 AM

Agreed. I thought this episode was weak on a whole, but if there was one good thing about this episode it was Lionel. It's high time the writers stopped flitting around with the whole "is he good or bad" thing (which granted, was interesting for a while, but has quickly grown old) to bring him back to his truly evil roots. The MB is back methinks.

CrazyforKal

03-16-2007, 09:17 AM

Lionel was brilliant. It gave me a glimpse into what Lex will become.

I've always perceived the iconic Lex Luthor as a whole lot of evil with a little bit of crazy thrown in. Now we know why. Lionel will be the one to push Lex over the edge--which should ultimately lead to his death at Lex's hands.

pissedoff

03-16-2007, 09:19 AM

I think he did it to protect Lex. I don't think he would ever try to hurt Clark, but Lana didn't know that. He wants lex to be able to hold on to the last bit of humanity that he has, which is Lana. He knew that if she didn't marry him he would go crazy.

Also i think it was great how they showed that he has had his finger in everything this entire time. we all started to think he was just going to be on the sidelines this year since he was a huge part last year. But wham out of no where he proves that he is still the MB that we all love and hate with the same breath. I'm glad he his back things alway get better when he is around. because you never know what he is really up too. Is he in the end going to hurt clark or is he going to turn on Lex at the last minute?

krypto's_keeper

03-16-2007, 09:23 AM

Geeze, who's side is Lionel on? (his own duh, don't mind that.) I've hadn't been able to watch Smallvile for a while, I have way too much homework, but the last time I saw Lionel, he was on some what friendly terms with Clark. Now he goes and does a complete 360 and threatens to kill Clark if Lana doesn't go through with the weding?!?!?! I guess this just shows, you mess with a Luthor and you don't just get burned, you get compleatly incenerated... But still it was a good preformance...

Kii

03-16-2007, 09:26 AM

Originally posted by pissedoff
I think he did it to protect Lex. I don't think he would ever try to hurt Clark, but Lana didn't know that. He wants lex to be able to hold on to the last bit of humanity that he has, which is Lana. He knew that if she didn't marry him he would go crazy.

I 100% Agree.

Personally, I didn't see what Lionel did as being evil. From Lana's perspective, I'm sure Lionel came off as one evil SOB. But, like you mentioned, Lionel was simply protecting Lex from going off the deep end.

boywithbluehanger

03-16-2007, 09:37 AM

IMO Transference was the best episode we've seen of Lionel since season 3...but since it was Tom Welling portraying Lionel, I kinda get your point ..this is the best John Glover episode since season 3 :D

Which is pathetic since he wasn't the main supporting feature and we still have no clue whether he's "good" or "bad" generally speaking.

Zungas

03-16-2007, 09:43 AM

Lionel is at his best when striking fear into Lex.

Peat Moss

03-16-2007, 09:46 AM

Originally posted by Hugo
He was great in this episode. I don't think he was bidding his time. He didn't want his son, who despite not saying "I love you" too he does love. What would you guys do and say to protect family members Anything right? I know I would. I just can't wait to see Martha's reaction when she finds out that what was at stake was her son's life.
Sidenote: I think this is the first time Lex has killed somebody? Am I correct in saying that?
You would threaten to kill someone to protect the happiness of your family? The HAPPINESS???? Lex can live without Lana.

pissedoff

03-16-2007, 09:47 AM

I thought he was good last season as well.

Kryptonian-Ronin

03-16-2007, 09:49 AM

Originally posted by Peat Moss
You would threaten to kill someone to protect the happiness of your family? The HAPPINESS???? Lex can live without Lana.

It had ZERO to do with Lana or Clark or happiness, it was about controling Lex.
Mission accomplished.

Ginx

03-16-2007, 09:52 AM

Actually Lionel is pretty easy to read - he's out for himself. He's keeping Clark's secret because it's benefiting him....as soon as that changes he'll either get rid of (or try to at least) Clark or attempt to manipulate him to get what he wants.

There is no good Lionel there is only the man that knows what he wants and will do anything to get what he wants.

StrangeVisitor1979

03-16-2007, 09:53 AM

One minute he's aiding Clark and Martha in their endeavours, then he blackmails Lana into marrying Lex, and then cleans up Lex's murder in order to cash in later on. He's playing both sides of the field. What's his agenda?

Ginx

03-16-2007, 09:54 AM

His own side - the same side he's always been on.

When Lionel wants something he does whatever he needs to get it or get to it - so there is clearly something he wants from Lana and Lex (baby) and clearly something he wants from Martha, and clearly something he wants from Clark and every other character he is 'friends' with.

Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

friday

03-16-2007, 10:03 AM

Lionel's.

Mr. Wrong

03-16-2007, 10:04 AM

Right on Ginx!

Peat Moss

03-16-2007, 10:14 AM

Lionel is clearly evil. He may be doing things for good reasons, in some twisted way, but he's doing evil things. For this whole season, even as he's been protecting Clark, I knew he was evil in some way, because whether his motives are good or bad, he will stop at nothing to achieve them.

natwelling

03-16-2007, 10:27 AM

He Knows that if lana did not marry lex. Lex is going to do something bad. Lionel was protecting Lex Lana and Clark... But he was kinda off in this episode..

natwelling

03-16-2007, 10:32 AM

The bottom line he is upto something and I hope is for the better and not for the bad..

JCannery82

03-16-2007, 10:42 AM

I think Lionel knows Clark's destiny better than he does, or at least he doesn't have to look past Lana's big brown puppy dog eyes to see it. He's trying to keep Clark on the right path to becoming the world's savior, and he knows he'll never get there with the love of his life at his side. Although I'd still much rather see Clark with Lana or Chloe than Lois.....

hedi sweet thighs

03-16-2007, 10:45 AM

Lionel made the statement that Lana has made 'YOU A DESPAREATE MAN" he saw a man afraid that he would loose the one woman he has truly loved.

Ginx

03-16-2007, 10:48 AM

Originally posted by Merlindamage
Its pretty evident from this episode that Lionel has something in the works. In the past, he would always just clean up after Lex and that would be the end of it. However, this time, he made sure to let Lex know that he would be calling in a favor. And, since when has Lionel ever been that concerened about how Lex felt. But he threatened to kill Clark for Lex's happiness. Why???

I've said it on another thread - Lex is an asset to Lionel and if Lione's asset falls apart before he gets what he wants then it will be a waste. Don't buy into for one min that Lionel is doing anything for 'the love of his son' - he's doing it because there is something that he wants - end of story.

And yeah - Lionel called out the favor this time because it's gonna be a big favor - the other times it went without saying that Lex was in depth of Lionel - it was know without saying it - the fact that Lionel called out that he will collect when ready told me that he wants something that Lex really really does not want to give - but if he doesn't give it then everything he has will be gone.

Originally posted by JCannery82
I think Lionel knows Clark's destiny better than he does, or at least he doesn't have to look past Lana's big brown puppy dog eyes to see it. He's trying to keep Clark on the right path to becoming the world's savior, and he knows he'll never get there with the love of his life at his side. Although I'd still much rather see Clark with Lana or Chloe than Lois.....

Lionel is not a good person - he does know a lot about Clark and the path he needs to take but not for one second am I going to assume that Lionel is out to help mankind and Clark.

Although you do make a good point and I wish it were true because Clark really does need some help getting on track - it won't be Lionel that helps him because in the end the only person that can get Clark on track is himself -

myankskent

03-16-2007, 10:57 AM

At first, I was upset at Lionel's character for doing what he did. But now, I think that he forced Lana to go through with the marriage so that he now has control over both Lex and Lana. Later on, he will use this to his advantage to get something that he wants, or he will try to. Lionel is actually the most powerful guy on the show right now. He has a hold over every single character after Promise. The negative about this as much as I love Lionel, is that it makes Lex look weak again.

Man of Steels45x

03-16-2007, 11:00 AM

"You don't have to worry Lex, u'll know when it's time for me to collect" that made it final u could get away with forcing lana to marry ur son to make him happy but that statement proves he is still power hungery. I'm just curious as to what he has planned and waiting for the day Clark finds out he forced Lana to marry Lex.

JCannery82

03-16-2007, 11:05 AM

I still think Lionel has good intentions. The villain in this story is Lex....always has been, and always will.....i really don't think Lionel has been biding his time for the last few seasons just to pounce on EVERYBODY in the end (especially with his still lingering love for Martha). He channelled Jor-El for a while and knows an awful lot about Kal-El as a result, including his ultimate destiny (in my opinion). I think he's still a changed man, a powerful and immoral one maybe, but I think he still has good intentions.

SVSpector

03-16-2007, 11:09 AM

Maybe it has something to do with the power symbol Lionel drew...remember that. Maybe he will use Lex to somehow try to recreate Kryptonian power within himself. What else does Lex have to offer, he put up 33.1 and Lexcorp...Lionel said no!! you'll know when the time is right.....what else is there?

meggy

03-16-2007, 11:10 AM

i cant wait to find out what Lionel plans to collect

Iluvgreen

03-16-2007, 11:12 AM

I think its because he knows that Clark "loves" Lana and with her out of the picture Clark can focus on more important things.

shadow4486

03-16-2007, 11:13 AM

I think Lionel wants Lana to be with Lex so that she (and her infinite goodness) can somehow seep into Lex and prevent him from becoming truly evil. I know it's hard but with out her Lex would give in to the evil and then his journey to the dark side would be complete . . .(sorry, I was channeling Palpatine for a moment).

In his effort to help Clark and Lex both, he did what he had to do. He knew that Lana in her place by Lex's side could be a good ally/spy. Can anyone say pillow talk?

but what about the Kryptonian writing from the earlier episodes?

silverfist

03-16-2007, 11:14 AM

When looking back at the dead guy in this episode, things are probably not looking that good for Lionel in the long run.

boywithbluehanger

03-16-2007, 11:18 AM

Was it poor writing that Lionel's first guess for Lana leaving Lex was being that she found out Clark's secret?

I mean of course we as viewers would jokingly assume it :lol: but it seemed a little hard to believe that Lionel would think that out of ALL the reasons not to marry Lex, she would have not married him for something that has nothing to do with him at all!

I mean it would've even been more believeable if he went and said, "You found out about Lex's secret, didn't you?" Lex's secret would definitely make someone hesitant to marry his butt!

Clark's secret would scare any girl sh!#less!!

Matriculated

03-16-2007, 11:20 AM

Perhaps the thing Lionel wants is the thing inside Lana. Having her married to Lex would make it easier for Lionel to get than if she was with Clark.

Ginx

03-16-2007, 11:21 AM

I wondered that myself - my first guess (if I was Lionel) was that she found out about the baby. But I guess if he wanted to play his 'I will kill Clark' card he had to make that his first guess.

Because then if that wasn't what she figured out then he could just brush it off and kinda rub it in his face that he knew the secret and she didn't lol.

Either way - they let Lionel play his hand brilliantly and Lana didn't bluff for sh*t - she should have bluffed a little........

boywithbluehanger

03-16-2007, 11:23 AM

Originally posted by Ginx
I wondered that myself - my first guess (if I was Lionel) was that she found out about the baby. But I guess if he wanted to play his 'I will kill Clark' card he had to make that his first guess.

Because then if that wasn't what she figured out then he could just brush it off and kinda rub it in his face that he knew the secret and she didn't lol.

Either way - they let Lionel play his hand brilliantly and Lana didn't bluff for sh*t - she should have bluffed a little........

LOL yeah you're probably right....Man what a bada$$. Lionel owns.

It makes sense that he just wanted to threaten her into marrying Lex. Yeah and you're right its too bad she just stood there and didn't even deny knowing Clarks secret :\

I guess this show is only good for one MB

cantankerous

03-16-2007, 11:23 AM

It's true. It's poor writing on this part, not to mention why would he even want to kill Clark? Pretty extreme

Ginx

03-16-2007, 11:27 AM

Originally posted by JCannery82
I still think Lionel has good intentions. The villain in this story is Lex....always has been, and always will.....i really don't think Lionel has been biding his time for the last few seasons just to pounce on EVERYBODY in the end (especially with his still lingering love for Martha). He channelled Jor-El for a while and knows an awful lot about Kal-El as a result, including his ultimate destiny (in my opinion). I think he's still a changed man, a powerful and immoral one maybe, but I think he still has good intentions.

Ah but what is a villain. I don't think that Lex is the sole villain in Smallville - Or even if Lex is a villian in the full term of the definition. Don't be fooled by the Lex we all know from the comics and the movies - this is still the young Lex, evil but not quite diabolical yet.

Beware the wolf in sheeps clothing. Lionel is no do-gooder.....he's out for something and there are two things right now that he could want 1) the Lana baby or 2) power to do with Clark - don't be fooled that he's the 'good samaritan ' remember in some stories that 'good' person is the most evil of all.

People accept the reality in which they are presented -

cmm

03-16-2007, 11:30 AM

he's psychic.

cantankerous

03-16-2007, 11:35 AM

Lana, realistically would scream out, Kill Clark? WHY??? Have you lost it, man

Kryptonian-Ronin

03-16-2007, 11:35 AM

he read the script

legolazzz04

03-16-2007, 11:36 AM

that old man Lionel is a master manipulater

meteor_phreak

03-16-2007, 11:39 AM

poor writing, and lana being a notoriously bad liar (as evidenced even in show quite a bit).

I'd like them to explain how lionel knew all this stuff about everyone, and where he's been. some type of onscreen conversation would make this seem less like the writers said "how do we advance the story?" and more like they said "you know what would make an interesting plot? Lionel returning to MB status."

this episode seemed like everything that happened was a means to an end, not a story progressing naturally.

ClowRegulus

03-16-2007, 11:42 AM

Originally posted by cantankerous
It's true. It's poor writing on this part, not to mention why would he even want to kill Clark? Pretty extreme

Maybe he used Clark in his speech because of that whole "you still love him, don't you" and/or because he knows that she's been "watching" him (as Clark said in Tresspass).

pissedoff

03-16-2007, 11:52 AM

Like i said before in a dif thread i think it was great how they showed us that Lionel has had his finger in everything this whole time. And none of us knew it. He is such a MB.

UltrarodimusP

03-16-2007, 12:15 PM

Lionel always had camera's everywhere. Something Lex never had. You would think Lex probably would learn by now.

But in the past Lionel always had recordings of everywhere he was gonna be.

Thats probably how he found the body of the doctor in the crypt. (Of course it could have also been becouse he over heard the conversation of Lex on the phone.)

But my guess is Lionel had cameras everywhere and spotted Lana watching Clark in the cellar. Or he may have seen Clark come in or out before he entered the room with Lana. There are plenty of explanations.

msleggie

03-16-2007, 12:22 PM

Maybe Lionel knew all along that once Lana found out about Clark, she'd leave Lex. Lionel did say he had been watching her ever since her and Lex got together. It's a little obvious that Lana isn't head over heals in love with Lex, the only person that doesn't see this is Lex.

Wendell

03-16-2007, 12:27 PM

Lionel said he's been watching Lana get closer to the truth, Lana decides not to marry Lex, and as way of explanation says something to the effect of, "Things have changed" or "Things are different now". It's not really a stretch for Lionel to figure it out, given that he has more combined information about the Luthers and Kents than anyone else in the story.

BlueNRed2

03-16-2007, 12:34 PM

Duh! Lionel is a meteor freak with the power of Super Awareness....i thought everyone knew that!!

All kidding aside. Lionel has played the game a very long time. He probably understood the triangle between Clark-Lana-Lex.... and the importance of *the* secret as a major factor.

Will be interesting to see where Lionel is going....as long as its not involved in the "Clark loses his powers to someone" episode which i guess we are probably due ....

Wendell

03-16-2007, 12:47 PM

It also occurred to me the parallels (or reversals) between this episode and Reckoning. Someone else in a different thread mentioned that after Reckoning, Clark sacrificed the relationship to save Lana's life, and this time it's Lana doing it to save Clark's life. But the trigger for both of these events was Lana finding out Clark's secret.

However, this raises the question of what was different this time that switched the risk from Lana to Clark. The difference is that Lionel stepped in. In Reckoning, Lex easily deduced that Lana knew Clark's secret when she was willing to go back to Clark. This time it's Lionel that recognizes Lana knows the secret, but he stops her from telling Lex (Lex likely would have again deduced it if Lana broke up with him and went back to Clark). So in an unintentional (or intentional?) way, Lionel was protecting Lana by stopping her from breaking up with Lex.

Any chance that Lionel has memories of both timelines in Reckoning? Again, he clearly know more than anyone else in the show (and for that he must die?).

ShadowPsykie

03-16-2007, 12:51 PM

well I think it goes deeper. I think the Lionel is actually protecting Clark. If Lana leaves Lex for Clark Lex will stop at nothing to take down Clark. Lex is skirting dangerously close to Clark's secret too.

so basically Lex Owes Lionel big. I am guessing that Lionel forees a time where Lex threatens Clark and Lionel will call in his debt.

teddybairs

03-16-2007, 12:55 PM

I think Lionel, in his own twisted way, is seeing the bigger picture better than anyone else. He knows exactly how desperate Lex was to keep Lana, and how emotionally and psychologically dependent he was on her. What would have happened if Lana had up and left Lex at the altar? Let's reason through this. 1) it would have completely unleashed the beast that is hiding just under Lex's smiling surface. Lionel has mentioned Lex's true nature in previous episodes a couple of times, and it seems something frightening even to him. Up to this point, Lex has had something like a semblance of a conscience. Imagine him without one at all. 2) following from this, Lex would have completely taken it out on everyone near and far from him. Remember when he was possessed by Zod? I'm sure Lionel does, and probably doesn't want a repeat of dark Thursday.

Finally, stemming from a previous post, it does make sense that Lionel does know more about Clark's destiny than Clark does. Remember Superman II? What would have happened if Clark did decide to go ahead and marry Lana. How long until Jor-El caught up to him and imposed the "no human wives" rule on him and taken away his powers? I don't think that's something that Lionel wants to happen, and he's willing, like Jor-El, to allow Clark to suffer a little pain to achieve the overarching bigger picture.

Wendell

03-16-2007, 12:58 PM

Originally posted by ShadowPsykie
well I think it goes deeper. I think the Lionel is actually protecting Clark. If Lana leaves Lex for Clark Lex will stop at nothing to take down Clark. Lex is skirting dangerously close to Clark's secret too.

so basically Lex Owes Lionel big. I am guessing that Lionel forees a time where Lex threatens Clark and Lionel will call in his debt.

Good point, if Lex thinks he's defeated Clark because he "won" Clark's girl, there's no real reason to go further to defeat Clark. It shows how desperate, unstable, and foolish Lex is becoming. It's not Lana that really matters to Lex, it's winning in the battle against Clark which would only escalate if Lex loses Lana. In that sense, Lionel was protecting all three of them - Lex, Clark, and Lana.

Tomsgurl88

03-16-2007, 01:04 PM

I believe there's more than meets the eye with Lionel, as usual lol i can't wait to see how it plays out.

samu09

03-16-2007, 01:11 PM

well since that {jor-el} thing happend to lionel,, my guess is he probably understands clark's destiny or purpose on earth more than clark himself understands.

Who

03-16-2007, 01:17 PM

Seeing how Lionel already turned down Lex's offer of Luthercorp and 33.1 he must have something else in mind.
I think the Promise in this episode is Lionel keeping Kal-El on the right path for Jor-El.

CrazyforKal

03-16-2007, 01:47 PM

Originally posted by Tomsgurl88
I believe there's more than meets the eye with Lionel, as usual lol i can't wait to see how it plays out.

I totally agree.

He was in true MB form last night. I felt like I was getting a glimpse into who Lex will ultimately become.

Lex is learning from the master.

Uffr

03-16-2007, 01:48 PM

Lionel is by far more awesome than Lex. Lex needs to catch up.

ajsimone34

03-16-2007, 01:50 PM

if the writers were smart the lionel that we've been seeing wont be lionel. think about it. lionel has been positioning himself closer and closer to clark. ever since jonathan died lionel has moved in on clark. what if jor-el is still in control?

jor-el never supported clark's love for lana, because it was not part of his destiny. lionel is ensuring that jor-el's commands are carried out. whether it is a concious thing or not, it would be great if all this time it has been jor-el.

knowing smallville though my guess is that lionel has become crazed by the kryptonian powers and wants to find zod and gain his power like lex did. that's why he is doing this for lex, so lex can help him get zod.

clark's become to soft. superman's humanity is what makes him so great, but the state that clark is in right now is very disheartening. there are only two powers left that he has to gain: ice breath and flight. we know from season 4 that clark isn't going to fly until he accepts his heritage and aspires to do what ollie told clark: "There's a whole world of people out there to save" He needs to grow up. hopefully lionel will help with that.

Somnium

03-16-2007, 01:55 PM

He has a plan - yes, is it evil - can't be sure.
I'm sure somewhere he is looking for himself like the old Lionel, but I also think he has some good reasons behind it - at least from his PoV.

Anyway I'm sure it was an empty treat, I'm sure Lionel wouldn't and probably can't kill Clark. I don't think its on his best intrests as well, with Martha and all. Also, don't forget the Jor-El mess he is in, the moment he tried to harm Clark who know what will happen to him.

tjpw fanatic

03-16-2007, 02:00 PM

I definitely think that Lionel has a plan. I'm not quite sure what it is but he's cooking up something. He likes Martha way too much to throw that all away for the son he despises.

superchloe

03-16-2007, 02:05 PM

"you don't have to worry Lex, you'll know when it's time for me to collect"

Why has Lionel not been beaten to death? I thought Lex doesn't take blackmail?

Bumperjeep

03-16-2007, 02:44 PM

Any of you think that Lionel's character in the last 3 seasons has been really sporatic. He's so hard to follow. Is he working for Jor-El? Is he on Clark's side? Is he on Lex's side? Is he on Lionel's side? What examples does everybody have that support and contridict this statement?

LuthorKent90

03-16-2007, 02:49 PM

I like the mystery that is Lionel Luthor. :cool:

pissedoff

03-16-2007, 02:49 PM

I don't think he is on anyones side. he has his reasons for everything he does, and if history repeats itself he is doing it for his own personal gain. that is what makes him so great. Lex could only wish he was half as evil as Lionel.

shahnti

03-16-2007, 03:40 PM

i've been really confused about Lionel too...for quite a while i kept asking..do you suppose he really HAS changed for the good?. but then you can't tell.and now i'm really just on the fence..after Promise i thought-oh, he MUST be his old bad self again but when i listen to people's speculations, i'm not sure...

i have to agree though that it keeps me guessin' is a good thing..

Lexed

03-16-2007, 03:42 PM

Dont really think he meant it to be evil. His son after all has to watch his company when he dies( since he is the only remaining luther) and he dosnt want a emotional wreck taking over so he did the only thing he can to preserve his company. Selfish move on his behalf.

bumblebee

03-16-2007, 03:47 PM

It's hard to tell if they have a plan for Lionel at all. It seems like they purposely put him on the fence so they can write him in any which way. They write him speaking cryptically, so they've covered all their bases for when and if they do finally decide to do something with Lionel.

Thil_EL

03-16-2007, 04:58 PM

humm.. not sure about this but does lional know about kryptonite or was he bluffing? and why in the god's world couldnt lana just phone clark and tell him about lional's threat?

Bumperjeep

03-16-2007, 04:58 PM

Originally posted by bumblebee
It's hard to tell if they have a plan for Lionel at all. It seems like they purposely put him on the fence so they can write him in any which way. They write him speaking cryptically, so they've covered all their bases for when and if they do finally decide to do something with Lionel.

Thats why this episode annoyed the hell out of me. He hasn't been in the show for weeks, and now he pops out of nowhere? Didn't he help save Clark or something like that? Wasn't he possessed by the FOS, im so confused.!!!

Bumperjeep

03-16-2007, 05:00 PM

I think Lionel has to know about the kryptonite, he was possesed by Jor-El and the fortress many times before. Btw, does the fortress still work as of now?

Meteror Freak

03-16-2007, 05:22 PM

Lionel has been evil the entire time. He just acted good to get on everyone's good side. Especially Martha's. ;) We know that Lionel is truly back to his evil self because he said so way back in season 4 in Onyx. Plus he lied to Chloe about not being able to read kryptonian anymore. The whole working with Lex thing on Level 33.1 could be explained away, but blackmailing Lana and helping his son hide a dead body? Nope, Lionel is pure evil.

ClarksGal

03-16-2007, 07:48 PM

You know, I have been thinking about this. Lionel has always taught Lex that he has to "keep a sharp eye on the ball," and "never deal from a position of fear." And in Promise, he said, "She's made a desperate man out of you Lex." Part of what has always made Lionel so ruthless is that he calls Lex out on the truth. I don't know what Lionel's ultimate motives are, but I do believe that his involvement is very true to his character. Lex is not the same when he is with Lana. I don't think Lionel wants Lex to be happy, I think that he puts himself in a great position of power when Lex is distracted and desperate. He really has Lex over a barrel now. Lex's fear of losing Lana is not going to end with this wedding. Lionel is holding all the cards. It's just a matter of what he is planning to do with them. I know that Lionel's intentions are to gain the upper hand, to have the most power to flex his own will. What I am still not sure about is what his will is. Is he trying to keep Lex from finally snapping? Or is he trying to take everything away from him? And for what end?

I love the MB.

boywithbluehanger

03-16-2007, 08:35 PM

I'm doubting that Lionel is still trully corrupt only because I think that would be a lame-a$$ outcome.

elroyofkrypton

03-16-2007, 09:10 PM

This is drama, folks. Hamlet should have embraced Ophelia, but he did what makes for great conflict.

This isn't Hamlet, but the engine if any drama is conflict and loss. Lionel is like the ghost of the king on the roof of the castle: he is the engine of the drama. I'm HOPING there is a good plot twist in there somewhere, and Lionel does something really unexpected.

fasterthenflash

03-16-2007, 09:21 PM

"you'll know when i come to collect" (not sure if exact quote) what do u guys think lionel will want in returen? did he only help lex to get something in reture ( alternative motive?) or was it a fother son thing? what and when will he collect?

Derrickray

03-16-2007, 09:38 PM

I think people are reaching when they say Lionel is protecting Clark. He could have gone about it another way if he really was. If he was "protecting" Clark he would have just told Clark Lana was on to his secret since Lionel "knew" the whole time she was getting close.

The debate about Lionel's motives are good but I'm with the group who thinks this is just bad writing. For Lionel to come out of nowhere, suddenly have control of everyone, and to know everything without any kind of build-up is just short-sighted.

Detorio

03-16-2007, 11:18 PM

Well theres no doubt that now after watching 'Promise'...we can all safetly say Lionel's evil roots are well intact. And it's only a matter of time before Clark realises what Lionel has done and the rage will through him.

NoSoupForYou

03-16-2007, 11:36 PM

Seriously? First in that episode where he covers for Clark with the "dinner with the Kents" bit, now he's turned back to the Dark Side? Whose side is Lionel on? I'm glad that the "evil" Lionel is back, but I really want to know who hes fighting for.

Rimmer66

03-17-2007, 12:06 AM

Exactly my thoughts. Also maybe I was tired or missed something but there seems to be some major secret about Lana's health and baby - Something I think Lionel knows about, could Lana be a danger to Lex and LIonel is protecting Clark ? That would be kind of twisted :) Keep in mind Lionel knows Clark's secret and his destiny - I don't think Lionel is on either side, and thinking of HIS interest(s) :)

TheRowdy

03-17-2007, 12:13 AM

Right now I don't think anyone in Smallville knows what the heck they are doing and/or fighting for. :lol:

I HATE GREEN ARROW

03-17-2007, 12:38 AM

I think Lionel is somewhat still on the KENTs side
Hey the guy is in love with Martha.
Lionel is trying to protect the world from LEX
If Lana really left LEX, I think Lionel knew that LEX was just go nuts and really **** the world up..
hence...section 31....hence THE LEGION OF DOOM..

Heyyu

03-17-2007, 12:42 AM

Who side is he on? Himself.

vikingjedi

03-17-2007, 12:55 AM

Lionel has been evil the entire time IMO

InLove_with_Chloe

03-17-2007, 01:28 AM

His own.

2shae

03-17-2007, 04:46 AM

How in the world did Lionel know that Lex killed the doctor under the Church ?!?! :eek:

Lex wasn't even planning on killing him. Did he follow him or something ?

InLove_with_Chloe

03-17-2007, 05:07 AM

It was written in the script, John Glover memorized it, and then said it out loud...

This epi did not make sense...
:lol:

SV_Ingo

03-17-2007, 05:09 AM

It's a fact that Lionel heard Lex' telephone call and thus found out that there was a problem.
I guess he just followed him ...

jaime,oburg

03-17-2007, 05:18 AM

^^^ Yep, just what I concluded.

Peat Moss

03-17-2007, 07:31 AM

Morgan Edge was behind it all.
You know it's true.

Dor el

03-17-2007, 08:09 AM

There was a shot with what appeared to be Lione's back there in the church basement while Lex was pummelling the doc

superhippie2000

03-17-2007, 08:50 AM

i think he wants love and attention lol j/k

seriously perhaps he wants lanas baby. perhaps he knows something about the baby with his kryptonian knowledge.

smallvillefreak24

03-17-2007, 09:04 AM

LIONEL KNOWS ALL

NEWPORT

03-17-2007, 09:33 AM

He wants to go to Disneyland

Krypton935

03-17-2007, 11:24 AM

Lionel has always been the same ruthless in it for himself guy. not that there's anything wrong with tat lionels cool but he just hasn't changed. he is trying to manipulate martha into believing that he's good and stuff. Yup he's the same old MB

Stephen Robinson

03-17-2007, 01:22 PM

It amused me that both Lionel and Lex were willing to give up LuthorCorp for the love of a woman (Martha and Lionel, respectively).

Compare the scenes in "Vengeance" and "Promise." It's interesting how much more Lex was in control when he didn't have Lana.

I am not surprised by Lionel's actions, however. He's always been out to protect Lex -- he covered up what he thought was Lex's murder of someone in "Zero" and he threatened to kill Mrs. Teague to save Lex's life.

Since "Transference," Lionel has been less overtly antagonistic toward Lex. He has made efforts to help him -- granted in Machiavellian ways (attempting to wrest control of LuthorCorp from him).

So, his actions in "Promise" are within character. His emotionally blackmailing Lana, though, was arguably the most evil thing done in the episode.

a silent liaison

03-17-2007, 04:45 PM

How did Lionel know that Dr. Langston was buried beneath the church in the crypt?

NEWPORT

03-17-2007, 04:57 PM

I like peanut butter ..

.. but I dont like peanuts

:confused:

a silent liaison

03-17-2007, 06:04 PM

Originally posted by NEWPORT
I like peanut butter ..

.. but I dont like peanuts

:confused:

Um....?

Clana4Life

03-17-2007, 06:32 PM

How did Lionel know that Lana finally knew Clark's secret. I mean, that was rather presumptuous on Lionel's part. "Oh, you don't want to marry my son, you must know Clark's secret." Does wanting to bail on your wedding day equate knowing a secret? Couldn't she be writing her dear John letter because she'd had second thoughts? Geez. I think that was a big jump and Lana could have denied knowing anything by simply saying "what secret?" She didn't have to give in. She did the same thing on Reckoning I believe. Doesn't anyone know how to bluff on this show? In Reckoning during the first half when Lana goes to see Lex after the election, he looks at her engagement ring and once again a Luthor assumes that Lana knows Clark's secret and Lana doesn't deny it. Are the Luthor's mind readers now? I mean, come on.

jmf1

03-17-2007, 06:38 PM

Lana's not the brightest bulb and doesn't play poker like the Luthors so I guess she must have a lousy poker face.

Clana4Life

03-17-2007, 06:44 PM

Yeah, but for Lionel to automatically assume that she knew the secret - I think the writers were reaching with that scene. And then the bit about Lionel observing Lana for some time & watching her as she started to figure out Clark's secret. I think they just threw that into this episode, too because from what I've watched, Lionel has been no where around & I can't imagine him being terribly interested in Lana and what she's up to, any more than I can imagine him carrying if she married Lex or if she didn't marry him. Where's this paternal love coming from all of a sudden? Wasn't he encouraging Clark to kill Lex in that Zod episode. Thought Lionel supposedly cared about Clark and Martha. Character assassination all the way...No continuity.