Goodbye Superman! [Archive] - KSiteTV Television & Movie Forums

paolinki25

03-15-2007, 08:08 PM

Originally posted by Insight
I keep hearing this Clark is disgracing Superman. Wasn't the whole point of the show to look into what this time in Clark's life was like? Just because he isn't like Superman doesn't mean he won't be in the future.

Come on. Clark is not a kid anymore. This isn't season 1, and all I can see is the same boy obsessed with his high school crush I saw in season 1. After all the things that have happened, he hasn't grown up one bit. He goes after pregnant, engaged woman and OMG! he was going to propose again? Seriously, that's wrong on so MANY different levels.

ron75upc

03-15-2007, 08:20 PM

Originally posted by paolinki25
Everything he did in this episode was COMPLETELY anti-Superman. I'm sorry, but I can't see this boy turning into Superman. No, thank you. I stick with Brandon.

Listen I am not singleing you out, but the Idea that you stand behind. This guy is not Superman, he does not act like Superman, he is not going to be Superman!!!!

He is Clark Kent!!!! This story is about what Clark had to deal with, and what he went through with all of the change in his life. WE know that he loved Lana in the comics and in the movies. He loves her in the show, but he is learning what it means to sacrifice.

He becomes Kal El later after his training then uses Clark as his Secret Idenity. He will eventually have to give up Lana for good, but until that moment he is going to pine over her, is going to want to give up everthing for her, and he is going to learn from this.

When he becomes the Kal El he gets called Superman by the woman that falls in love with Kryptonian side of him, and the name sticks. He has to use a secret idenity to protect those he loves from the ones that hate him.

You guys need to understand that he is not who you want him to be yet, but this is a journey to become more that what he is. He is learning, and she will too that his calling is bigger then any of them could ever imagine.

Just be entertained. If you want Brandon that is great and I think that he did an outstanding job as Superman, but he was pineing over Lois the whole movie, and we spying on her, and almost lost his life because he was more worried about the woman he loved that being Superman. Remember!!!!

Originally posted by paolinki25
Come on. Clark is not a kid anymore. This isn't season 1, and all I can see is the same boy obsessed with his high school crush I saw in season 1. After all the things that have happened, he hasn't grown up one bit. He goes after pregnant, engaged woman and OMG! he was going to propose again? Seriously, that's wrong on so MANY different levels.

He was only going to propose after she said that she was not marring Lex.

He was at the mantion to stop her from marring the most evil man on the face of the earth. He was making sure that she was not doing this because he did not share his secret with her. Give her a chance to know why he did not tell, but Daddy Lionel got in the way, and now he thinks that she lied to him. It is a learning experience.

dimeo782002

03-15-2007, 08:22 PM

Originally posted by Lostfan588
Im so disgusted he was gonna propose AGAIN. :lol:

Lionel is my hero, and thats all i gotta say!
:)

W Lana not being able to tell Clark the truth, Im thinkin Clark takes these next eppys to MOVE on....and by the time she's back on the market heh! Too late!

LETS HOPE THIS PUSHES HIM FORWARD IM TIRED OF THIS CRAP. I STILL LOVE THE SHOW BUT MY HEART IS STARTING TO BREAK TO SEE THE SHOW I LOVE GO THROUGH THIS THEY ARE MAKING A JOKE OF CLARK

regex_1

03-15-2007, 08:28 PM

You have to have drama or the show would get real old real quick. This show is simply the trials and tribulations that lead a boy to a man to a superman. Not an easy transition.

paolinki25

03-15-2007, 08:30 PM

Originally posted by ron75upc
He was only going to propose after she said that she was not marring Lex.

And this makes it all better because....? You just don't propose an unestable woman like Lana who has just left another man, the man who's supposed to be the father of her child at the altar. You just don't. Plain and simple. You think things through, give her some time to solve her issues and most importantly, stay the hell out of it.

Solara_08

03-15-2007, 08:30 PM

As martha once said, "clark can protect the world, but he has to also protect his heart" (not verbatum)

boywithbluehanger

03-15-2007, 08:36 PM

What I don't get is why she didnt tell Clark when he was in the room that Lionel knows his weakness....I hate how she was just scared into submission like that.

I mean without Clark life wouldn't be worth living in her mind so it only makes sense she'd risk losing him too in order to be with him!

Honey45

03-15-2007, 08:56 PM

Everyone keeps complaining about how this show is such a disgrace to Superman.

Has no one realized this show has nothing to do with Superman?
It's about CLARK KENT.
BEFORE he was Superman.

Not necessarily "up to AND including" when he was Superman.

If it's such a disgrace, don't watch it.
It's fine to pick apart little tiny things in episodes, or say which characters you like/don't like, or what you think will happen next .. but if you're going to outright insult the show and talk about how unbearably terrible it is .. STOP WATCHING. Your b*tching and complaining is doing nothing for anyone, so stop wasting your energy.

(This isn't directed at the author of this board)

monet

03-15-2007, 09:06 PM

Originally posted by HeddyH
Everyone keeps complaining about how this show is such a disgrace to Superman.

Has no one realized this show has nothing to do with Superman?
It's about CLARK KENT.
BEFORE he was Superman.

Not necessarily "up to AND including" when he was Superman.

If it's such a disgrace, don't watch it.
It's fine to pick apart little tiny things in episodes, or say which characters you like/don't like, or what you think will happen next .. but if you're going to outright insult the show and talk about how unbearably terrible it is .. STOP WATCHING. Your b*tching and complaining is doing nothing for anyone, so stop wasting your energy.

(This isn't directed at the author of this board)

Thank you I appreciate that. :)

msleggie

03-15-2007, 09:08 PM

Originally posted by: paolinki25 What Superman? This version of Clark doesn't deserve to be called Superman

I so agree with this statement! But if I was Lana, I wouldn't be able to give up clark after seeing his abilities.

monet

03-15-2007, 09:16 PM

Not only has she let the love of her life go but she is willingly going to let Clark associate with someone who want to kill him. What kind of love is this? Convenient Love? The decision she made is just wrong on so many levels.

cybernetix

03-15-2007, 09:19 PM

Originally posted by paolinki25
Everything he did in this episode was COMPLETELY anti-Superman. I'm sorry, but I can't see this boy turning into Superman. No, thank you. I stick with Brandon.

The only Superman is Christopher Reeves. Period!

I did not loved Routh, he did well but the story have not met my expectations. I was hoping for a Batman Begins like movie.

MetroGirl06

03-15-2007, 09:27 PM

Originally posted by HeddyH
Everyone keeps complaining about how this show is such a disgrace to Superman.

Has no one realized this show has nothing to do with Superman?
It's about CLARK KENT.
BEFORE he was Superman.

Clark IS Superman, the show has everything to do with it! Everything Clark does now is a step towards becoming Superman. People just cant understand how hes supposed to become such a symbolic character when every decision hes making seems to be leading him 100 mph in the opposite direction!

monet

03-15-2007, 09:27 PM

Originally posted by cybernetix
The only Superman is Christopher Reeves. Period!

I did not loved Routh, he did well but the story have not met my expectations. I was hoping for a Batman Begins like movie.

If you think that Christopher is the only superman then why do u have Clark in a superman outfit. :confused:

Batman Returns was just as awful as Superman Returns. Non of the two can compare to Smallville.

STFanatic

03-15-2007, 09:38 PM

No, it isn't about Superman, but it is about the person who is supposedly someday will be that Superhero.

And portraying the person who is to take on the mantle of such a hero as a whiny love-struck slacker is not what most people (as seen on these boards) want to see.

Even young Clark was suppoesd to have a spine, though still hiding his heroics from the public, he still stands (supposedly) "Truth, Justice & the American way" (though the writers now-a-days leave the last part off).

Clark knows there is a Zoner still out there somewhere, yet he spends his spare time proposing to Sheby?
He knows there are people like Green Arrow & crew out there fighting the 33.1 problem and standing up for the "little guy" & fighting crime, yet Clark spends his nights in comfort down on the farm.

Yes, many people complain about Smallville, I for one am hanging around to see the series hit another highpoint and get things rolling towards what Clark should be someday.
Raya died in vain, Clark should be stopping Zoners and getting on with his training instead of moping around.

I have been watching every episode since the pilot and I will be here untill the grand finale.
I have been supporting the series all the way, including purchasing the DVD sets up to season four, I have not been able to bring myself to buy season five as of yet though.

Telling someone not to watch the series because they don't totally love every single second of it is not real fandom.
It is delusionism.
To expect every episode to please everyone would also be delusional.

If everyone raved positive about every episode, then the creative team could just have the cast walk across the set waving to the camera and still have a sucessful series.

Smallville's Oracle

03-15-2007, 09:49 PM

What is great about this series is that people are talking about it. We are all going to have like and dislikes. I am enjoying the ride. I have all the episodes on dvd myself and in the last month since the last new EP I watched season 1-5 and it is still passing the test of time. A great series and many ups and downs. One hour on Thursday nights is well worth my time.

mcgairman

03-15-2007, 09:59 PM

:( Well, for me this episode was well acted and tense. I liked it for its entertainment value. As to the subject of whether this Clark merits being called a "superman in training", I would say no. His morals and judgement is far beneath the classical Superman persona. Yes, he's young, but that's hardly an excuse for a kid who's supposedly got an astronmical IQ, super powers, and solid upbringing by two very good people.

I have seasons 1, 4, and 5 on DVD. I didn't buy 2 or 3, and now can't find any copies. But in season 1, the Clark shown in the pilot and the early shows was what I would have expected. However, somewhere in season 2, as I recall in thinking about that season the one after it, SV changed. I would hope its gets better before this series ends. But I WILL continue to watch, as I have done since the beginning. I like the "idea" of SV -- that's always been fascinating to me.

:cool: MCGJr.

staph

03-15-2007, 10:08 PM

Actually oracle, that is not true. The series is not great. So many viewers are disgusted with the pathetic writers. Honestly, don't you need some sort of resume or credentials to be a writer of a TV series. This has gone beyond stupid already. This has to rank up there with the worst episodes of all time. I say this due to the unrealistic turn of events. She knows he is impossible to kill and she even dreamed of the tornado scene. By the way nothing can kill superman not even kryptronite unless he is wrapped in it or very near it. I mean come on. The thought that if I had a piece of Kryptonite rock that I could kill him is retarded. and just plain dumb. He has other skills to kill anyone from a safe distance. We are getting to technical if you say I will hide the kryptonite in leqad and then get him. You watch the movies too much plus Lionel doesn't know about the lead. Either way the is irrelevant to my point about the dumb writing.

Every week we all complain about the stupid plots and the terrible loft scenes as well as the horrible writing that makes everyone so unbelievably stupid in smallville. But this idea that anyone that is threatened the way she was would not even validate the thought with Chloe or even inform Clark is just plain bad plot writing in order to drag out a story over another year that can be written in 1 weeks episode. This show has unfortunately turned in to Days of our Lives or maybe even General Hospital. So slow and overly dramatic. All she has to do is find out if he can be hurt or warn him of the threat. It does not have to be complicated. I know that some people on here are going to try and say something stupid and defend the show by saying she did it to protect him and love him. Please, give me a break this is a show not real life so come back to reality and stop getting so involved in the story line has if this was really happening "live" ina real town called Smallville. It is a stoiry on TV so it should flow a little faster and a little smarter so that we are all not 68 years old and still waiting fo rthe show to wrap up loose ends and bad story plots. Honestly this show has been such garbage for a while and the amount of viewers proves the point. This show will never have has many people or fans as it could potentially have because they lose so many people from watching it. The only main stay viewers are the loyal superman fans or the fans that love to torture themselves every week. This show has nver had stellar fan base numbers. What a shame too. This is why all the hall of fame shows that will go down in history have one thing that smalville will never have, good writers.

What a shame. Just ask George Lucas. he will confirm the value of good writers. I gues he should not have written the last three episodes . He should have hired the original writer. look how that turned out. Even the most loyal Star Wars fans hated the prequels. WRITING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

puppiesnkittens

03-15-2007, 10:11 PM

^^ I agree totally. I think, like with the SW prequels, ego has gotten in the way of the story.

savingpeoplething

03-15-2007, 10:22 PM

Originally posted by paolinki25
What Superman? This version of Clark doesn't deserve to be called Superman.

He was so close in S5, but this S6 version is so freaking pathetic that it's sick. The start of the season was great and he stepped up in "Justice", but really, for me, "Hydro" was the beginning of the end when he thought there was a chance with Lana and literally, RAN back to her.
Silly me. I thought he had learned something for once...

He actually WHINED in "Promise".
He wanted to bust up a wedding, propose to a pregnant and engaged woman, and then kissed her on her wedding day.

Good grief.
All of that great Superman-ish growth he had in S5 has backtracked in the worst way possible.
If I hadn't known I was watching Smallville during this episode, I would've been suprised that the show was about a young Superman.

InLove_with_Chloe

03-15-2007, 10:25 PM

freefall

03-15-2007, 10:28 PM

Nope, S5 is where Clark actually hits rock bottom. Hydro thru Promise just another repeat of that, only this time it's a thousand times worse. He can't even remember his own father's death which has everything to do with his own choices and decisions, and he still has the gall to say the hardest thing he has to do is letting Lana go.

InLove_with_Chloe

03-15-2007, 10:38 PM

Originally posted by seacrystal
Nope, S5 is where Clark actually hits rock bottom. Hydro thru Promise just another repeat of that, only this time it's a thousand times worse. He can't even remember his own father's death which has everything to do with his own choices and decisions, and he still has the gall to say the hardest thing he has to do is letting Lana go.
...that's why IMO this would have been a great epi for S2 or S3.....but now it's just ridiculous.

cybernetix

03-16-2007, 07:50 AM

Originally posted by monet
If you think that Christopher is the only superman then why do u have Clark in a superman outfit. :confused:

Batman Returns was just as awful as Superman Returns. Non of the two can compare to Smallville.

I think you missed my point ... For now Tom Welling is not superman, I can't wait to see him become The Man of Steel, but for now, he's only a farmboy with super-abilities. I was not comparing SV to SR and BB at all, Smallville is way better than Superman Returns and way to different of Batman Begins to compare. I have watched every single episode of Smallville monet, don't worry, I was not bashing against the show at all. I just said that for me, the only Superman was Christopher Reeves, and not only for his character but also for the man he was.

SpeedDemon77

03-16-2007, 08:37 AM

What has been said of this series from the very beginning? No...even BEFORE it started. All the publicity was about a series based on the life of Clark Kent long prior to him becoming Superman.

If you wanted to see Superman or a series about Superman, everyone had the opportunity NOT to start watching this one. And now all I see is, 'he's not Superman....never going to be Superman....is nothing like he should be as Superman.....'

Here we are six years later and the only thing I can say to all this ranting about the lack of Superman in this series is "Well, DUH!"

Kryptonian-Ronin

03-16-2007, 08:42 AM

he was raised by humans, taught human values, of course he is gonna act liek a human, what so hard to understand?

Sheesh !

* lights up spliff*

You people need to chill out man !

DeesRyche

03-16-2007, 08:45 AM

natwelling

03-16-2007, 09:10 AM

Clark I don't know whats his problem... He can't just let her go. I was so mad at him that he wanted to proposed to her If Lana wanted to be with him she Why did she hooked up with LEX at the first place and made a big deal about Clark hiding something

Ginx

03-16-2007, 09:50 AM

Originally posted by Insight
I keep hearing this Clark is disgracing Superman. Wasn't the whole point of the show to look into what this time in Clark's life was like? Just because he isn't like Superman doesn't mean he won't be in the future.

I agree... he's still growing into the roll, still needs to complete his training. If anything - this episode is pushing him to do what he needs to do and stop acting like a love-sick puppy. He's the man of steel he needs to start growing into those boots more. Go after the Zoners and then join up with the JL -

Mr. Wrong

03-16-2007, 10:34 AM

Hopefully Lana dies in childbirth like she did in Lex's dream last season. KK needs to move on.

Ginx

03-16-2007, 10:37 AM

Originally posted by Mr. Wrong
Hopefully Lana dies in childbirth like she did in Lex's dream last season. KK needs to move on.

Oh hi we haven't met - you must work for Lionel Luthor because you're a bit of the nasty ;) :p

greatceasarsghost

03-16-2007, 10:46 AM

The writers wanted to let lana in on why clark pushed her away and in doing so they went overboard with the proposing to the dog scene (which was pathetic).

But to a lot of the women/girls on this site, (Clark and Superman) will always be the good guy who has a true love for the girl in his life. He is not a wisecracking, hard-drinking, cigarette hanging off his lip man of the world who doesn't care. For that fantasy watch COPS where you get the rest of that package including the domestic abuse and like mentioned above deadbeat dad etc.

All thru superman history, from the the beginning (adventures of superman) to the christopher reeve movies and comics. Superman is the decent guy. C reeve made the world spin backwards to bring lois back to life.

Lana was always to weak and wishy washy to find out sooner unlike chloe who had some determination. Besides I liked clark and lois together in Oilvers loft. She is more of a woman . They will be good together.

Kryptonian-Ronin

03-16-2007, 10:53 AM

Originally posted by greatceasarsghost
The writers wanted to let lana in on why clark pushed her away and in doing so they went overboard with the proposing to the dog scene (which was pathetic).

But to a lot of the women/girls on this site, (Clark and Superman) will always be the good guy who has a true love for the girl in his life. He is not a wisecracking, hard-drinking, cigarette hanging off his lip man of the world who doesn't care. For that fantasy watch COPS where you get the rest of that package including the domestic abuse and like mentioned above deadbeat dad etc.

All thru superman history, from the the beginning (adventures of superman) to the christopher reeve movies and comics. Superman is the decent guy. C reeve made the world spin backwards to bring lois back to life.

Lana was always to weak and wishy washy to find out sooner unlike chloe who had some determination. Besides I liked clark and lois together in Oilvers loft. She is more of a woman . They will be good together.

So..are you for what he is doing or not??
Can't make it out from your post...
It would seem that, based on what CR did in SUperman 1 ( turning back the world/time to save Lois rather than to save the innocents that died) makes THIS Clark's actions consistent.

Rogue1

03-16-2007, 11:16 AM

Originally posted by Insight
I keep hearing this Clark is disgracing Superman. Wasn't the whole point of the show to look into what this time in Clark's life was like? Just because he isn't like Superman doesn't mean he won't be in the future.

THANK YOU !!!!!!!!!!!:D

I have always believed that what we become in life is a sum total of our experiences. That is what Superman is, the sum total of Clark's life experiences. What happens in our lives shapes us to become who we are and the way we react to situations are usually based on past experiences.
It is a scientifically proven fact that males mature at a much slower rate than their female counterparts, most males do not reach the chronological equivalent of their age until their mid-late 20s and some not until their 30s so don't expect that from Clark. He must grow and mature. Superman had to come from somewhere, Clark didn't just wake up one morning and decide "Today I think I will become Superman" he has to have some catalyst that ultimately makes him decide that is who he will be.
I know we are not talking science we are talking tv, but some prefer to think of a tv show as real life but that is a psychological disturbance better suited for discussion on a different day :)
Anyway, that notwithstanding, I personally believe and there are many naysayers who will contradict my opinion, but this has been the best season, by far, than any others. I have seen much growth and awareness come to Clark which will be the driving force of who he becomes. IMHO this seasons episodes, overall, have been well written, well directed with superb acting on the part of all parties. Of course there are a few caveats to that but all in all this has been one of the most enjoyable seasons.
I did not grow up reading the comic books so my take on the Superman mythology is not a deciding factor as to whether or not I like an episode or a season, it is the writing, directing and acting that compels me to keep watching not continuity with the comic books or the movies for that matter. I see Smallville separate and apart from either of those incarnations and therein lies the reason for my opinions and views.

Iluvgreen

03-16-2007, 11:23 AM

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

paolinki25

03-16-2007, 11:26 AM

The thing is this Clark Kent doesn't learn squat from his past experiences. He has faced hard trials, I don't know, like pretty much giving up your dad's life for Lana's, he has lost influential people in his life like Raya, but he keeps making the same freaking mistakes when it comes to his relationship with Lana. How is this boy ever gonna grow up and become Superman if he doesn't learn from his experiences?

cmm

03-16-2007, 11:26 AM

Originally posted by Rogue1
THANK YOU !!!!!!!!!!!:D

I have always believed that what we become in life is a sum total of our experiences. That is what Superman is, the sum total of Clark's life experiences. What happens in our lives shapes us to become who we are and the way we react to situations are usually based on past experiences.
It is a scientifically proven fact that males mature at a much slower rate than their female counterparts, most males do not reach the chronological equivalent of their age until their mid-late 20s and some not until their 30s so don't expect that from Clark. He must grow and mature. Superman had to come from somewhere, Clark didn't just wake up one morning and decide "Today I think I will become Superman" he has to have some catalyst that ultimately makes him decide that is who he will be.
I know we are not talking science we are talking tv, but some prefer to think of a tv show as real life but that is a psychological disturbance better suited for discussion on a different day :)
Anyway, that notwithstanding, I personally believe and there are many naysayers who will contradict my opinion, but this has been the best season, by far, than any others. I have seen much growth and awareness come to Clark which will be the driving force of who he becomes. IMHO this seasons episodes, overall, have been well written, well directed with superb acting on the part of all parties. Of course there are a few caveats to that but all in all this has been one of the most enjoyable seasons.
I did not grow up reading the comic books so my take on the Superman mythology is not a deciding factor as to whether or not I like an episode or a season, it is the writing, directing and acting that compels me to keep watching not continuity with the comic books or the movies for that matter. I see Smallville separate and apart from either of those incarnations and therein lies the reason for my opinions and views.

What your saying is correct but, isn't there more to clark's life than Lana lang? So far everything he's learned with the exception of johnathon kent's death is lana related. Lana getting kidnapped, lana getting into trouble, lana getting with his worst enemy, Lana, lana, lana. So what exactly is there for him to learn? So far in this entire series the only quality he shares with his future destiny is his ability to save people nothing more which is sad because after six seasons he should be closer to his future self than he is now.

Mercury083

03-16-2007, 11:34 AM

Anyone else find it ironic that Lana found out Clark's secret in the whine.. i mean wine cellar? She spends the better part of 5 seasons going on and on about secrets.

Hopefully what's happened here will force Clark to move on. I find the best episodes of Smallville tend to have either Happy Clark (spending as little time whining as possible) or Action Clark (where he actually puts effort into solving some kind of problem that preferrably has nothing to do with Lana)

Timester

03-16-2007, 11:46 AM

Originally posted by Kryptonian-Ronin
he was raised by humans, taught human values, of course he is gonna act liek a human, what so hard to understand?

Sheesh !

* lights up spliff*

You people need to chill out man !

That's the most insulting excuse I ever heard. He is gonna act like a human? I'm a human and I'm not 1/20 as jackass and hypocrite as he is. He is supposed to be/become the BEST of us all, not the worst.

This is season 6, he is 20 years old. He should be closer to his destiny, not even farther. for the love of God...

Bosrudorfer

03-16-2007, 12:00 PM

Originally posted by paolinki25
What Superman? This version of Clark doesn't deserve to be called Superman.

Exactly! Clark in Smallville is a BIG wimp. Man I would have started breaking **** after she said yes instead of crying like a baby.

WIMP!

SnarkMasterJ

03-16-2007, 12:02 PM

Originally posted by STFanatic
No, it isn't about Superman, but it is about the person who is supposedly someday will be that Superhero.

And portraying the person who is to take on the mantle of such a hero as a whiny love-struck slacker is not what most people (as seen on these boards) want to see.

Even young Clark was suppoesd to have a spine, though still hiding his heroics from the public, he still stands (supposedly) "Truth, Justice & the American way" (though the writers now-a-days leave the last part off).

Clark knows there is a Zoner still out there somewhere, yet he spends his spare time proposing to Sheby?
He knows there are people like Green Arrow & crew out there fighting the 33.1 problem and standing up for the "little guy" & fighting crime, yet Clark spends his nights in comfort down on the farm.

Yes, many people complain about Smallville, I for one am hanging around to see the series hit another highpoint and get things rolling towards what Clark should be someday.
Raya died in vain, Clark should be stopping Zoners and getting on with his training instead of moping around.

I have been watching every episode since the pilot and I will be here untill the grand finale.
I have been supporting the series all the way, including purchasing the DVD sets up to season four, I have not been able to bring myself to buy season five as of yet though.

Telling someone not to watch the series because they don't totally love every single second of it is not real fandom.
It is delusionism.
To expect every episode to please everyone would also be delusional.

If everyone raved positive about every episode, then the creative team could just have the cast walk across the set waving to the camera and still have a sucessful series.

A to the men.

Believe it or not, for all those people on their pedestals, it's impossible to control people's reactions. They are what they are. You're not God. Get over yourselves.

After watching this episode, and really the entire show, one might conclude that there's a point from which it's at least feasible for a character to come back from the brink of disaster and redeem him/herself.

Clark Kent passed that point and waved his middle finger in the air while he did it.

He's still in high school. The only thing that matters is getting back the girl he could never hold onto and could never figure out that he didn't really need. He hasn't stuck with any of the life lessons he's learned. His own father's death is now a great, cosmically flatulent joke.

Honestly, that level of self-centeredness shows that he and Lana deserve to writhe in misery together for the rest of time, but I'd much rather watch her die now and see him wallow in obscurity before choosing Lois Lane as his back-up soulmate. It would complete the betrayal.

Ginx

03-16-2007, 12:09 PM

Originally posted by SnarkMasterJ
A to the men.

Clark Kent passed that point and waved his middle finger in the air while he did it.

He's still in high school. The only thing that matters is getting back the girl he could never hold onto and could never figure out that he didn't really need. He hasn't stuck with any of the life lessons he's learned. His own father's death is now a great, cosmically flatulent joke.

LOL @ the first part. I agree.....Clark is still operating on a high school mentality level - he needs to grow up. And I also agree that Clark hasn't learned from the lessons he's been taught - I also found it straight-crap that Clark stated that Lana was so influentual and totally overlooked how his father's death affected him or that it was MORE tragic than the whole Lana-thing -seriously....show Jonathan some respect.

Kryptonian-Ronin

03-16-2007, 12:12 PM

Originally posted by Timester
That's the most insulting excuse I ever heard. He is gonna act like a human? I'm a human and I'm not 1/20 as jackass and hypocrite as he is. He is supposed to be/become the BEST of us all, not the worst.

This is season 6, he is 20 years old. He should be closer to his destiny, not even farther. for the love of God...

I'm glad you are not a jackass, that makes two of us.
Clark is, like so many others than US.
He is closed minded and blind at times, like his Dad.
Has issues putting the past behind him and proritizing his life, like his mom.

In short, he is a Kent.

I mean, his Mom was at the wedding party, at the wedding ( surprised she didn't give lana away !).
Changes her mind like the wind.

How do you expect Clark to be and behave if not like those that raised him ??

Muse25

03-16-2007, 12:13 PM

Originally posted by paolinki25
The thing is this Clark Kent doesn't learn squat from his past experiences. He has faced hard trials, I don't know, like pretty much giving up your dad's life for Lana's, he has lost influential people in his life like Raya, but he keeps making the same freaking mistakes when it comes to his relationship with Lana. How is this boy ever gonna grow up and become Superman if he doesn't learn from his experiences?

Amen! I cannot believe that this version of Clark Kent grows into Superman. I am ashamed of this Clark Kent. He has learned nothing at all. He is still hell bent on having Lana at any cost. What has he learned? Nothing. It is once said that (paraphrasing here) that stupid people keep making the same mistake hoping for a different outcome.

I realize that this is a version of CLark but you know I hate this version of CLark.

Timester

03-16-2007, 12:28 PM

Originally posted by Kryptonian-Ronin
I'm glad you are not a jackass, that makes two of us.
Clark is, like so many others than US.
He is closed minded and blind at times, like his Dad.
Has issues putting the past behind him and proritizing his life, like his mom.

In short, he is a Kent.

I mean, his Mom was at the wedding party, at the wedding ( surprised she didn't give lana away !).
Changes her mind like the wind.

How do you expect Clark to be and behave if not like those that raised him ??

Oh, I do agree. The morals of the Kents were destroyed by the Lex hatred/Lana adoration.

Kryptonian-Ronin

03-16-2007, 12:34 PM

Originally posted by Timester
Oh, I do agree. The morals of the Kents were destroyed by the Lex hatred/Lana adoration.

Unfortunately so.

I mean, does anyone on this show have a healthy sense of self? and in a healthy relationship without baggage ??

Chlarkfan_forever

03-16-2007, 12:35 PM

Hellllllooo

Timester

03-16-2007, 12:36 PM

Originally posted by Chlarkfan_forever
Okay, this is to all these stupid people who haven't thought things through. Why do you think there is so much drama? Is it because the writers suck and want you guys to talk sh*t? No! Maybe it's for the many, many female viewers who enjoy the show and just watch for the drama. I mean, come on, we all want the action, but do you think this show could just live off us viewers, the people who just watch for the love and drama etc. make up a great part of the viewers. I'm sorry to you all, but I think the writers, and Al and Miles could care less of what you guys thought, and they know all the people who love drama will continue to watch. And they know that all of you people will still continue to watch even with what you say.

PLUS, probably the reason why they aren't making Clark deal with the zoners now is because of the season finale? What's it called? 'Phantom'. So what would it most likely be about? Come on, think about it from their point of view, if they made Clark take on the zoners before the finale, what would the finale be? Possibly the final battle of 33.1, but they would probably do that in season 7. This season is mainly about Clark REALIZING that he needs to do more than just wait for trouble to come. Next season he might possibly join up with the other JLers and help them. Also, they plan to have 2 more seasons of stories, how far do you think they could go if they didn't make Clark develop slower.

So with all that said, next time think before you assume that all the writers suck. They need drama in this show or, this show would have ended probably after season 4.

The post break the rules on so many ways...

Chlarkfan_forever

03-16-2007, 12:38 PM

Originally posted by Timester
The post break the rules on so many ways...

why??

Kryptonian-Ronin

03-16-2007, 12:39 PM

Originally posted by Chlarkfan_forever
why??

I wouldn't even know where to start...

Chlarkfan_forever

03-16-2007, 12:40 PM

Originally posted by Kryptonian-Ronin
I wouldn't even know where to start...

yeah, okay

Timester

03-16-2007, 12:41 PM

Originally posted by Chlarkfan_forever
why??

It's nothing other then flamming and insulting the posters, which is a very big "NO GO" around here.

Kryptonian-Ronin

03-16-2007, 12:42 PM

Originally posted by Chlarkfan_forever
yeah, okay

Make your point without insulting anyone and try not to speak for the female viewers for starters.

Chlarkfan_forever

03-16-2007, 12:53 PM

my bad, i'm just pissed at everyone saying that the writing crew sucks.

So, this is not directed to anyone but why do you think there is so much drama? Is it because the writers suck? No! Maybe it's for the many, many viewers who enjoy the show and just watch for the drama. I mean, come on, we all want the action, but do you think this show could just live off us viewers, the people who just watch for the love and drama etc. make up a great part of the viewers. I'm sorry to you all, but I think the writers, and Al and Miles could care less of what you guys thought, and they know all the people who love drama will continue to watch. And they know that all of you people will still continue to watch even with what you say.

PLUS, probably the reason why they aren't making Clark deal with the zoners now is because of the season finale? What's it called? 'Phantom'. So what would it most likely be about? Come on, think about it from their point of view, if they made Clark take on the zoners before the finale, what would the finale be? Possibly the final battle of 33.1, but they would probably do that in season 7. This season is mainly about Clark REALIZING that he needs to do more than just wait for trouble to come. Next season he might possibly join up with the other JLers and help them. Also, they plan to have 2 more seasons of stories, how far do you think they could go if they didn't make Clark develop slower.

So with all that said, just remember that the writers have a lot to think about basically the ratings, as much as they would love to please you all they can't. They need drama in this show or, this show would have ended probably after season 4.

how about that?

Kryptonian-Ronin

03-16-2007, 12:56 PM

We all know WHY there is drama, and we all know that soap opera dramas and sex sell.
No one watched Disperate Housewives for the philosophical debates.

We can still be displeased with our inteligence being insulted and the writers falling on tired and worn out plot lines and cliches.

Chlarkfan_forever

03-16-2007, 12:58 PM

yeah, but they can't just sell on action alone. they need the ratings, you can't blame them for sinking a little bit. they still have a chance to swim back up. (i don't know why i used water as a metaphor)

Dannyblue1

03-16-2007, 12:58 PM

For those who keep talking about how SV needs drama, that's true.

But there is good drama and there is bad drama. And last night's episode is what I'd consider bad drama.

Too often, when looking to create drama, the writers of SV go for the easy, contrived, inorganic, manipulative variety. And episodes like "Promise" are the result.

Using the "it creates drama" excuse doesn't wash. Plenty of shows manage to be more dramatic (and more satisfying) without sinking to these levels.

DeesRyche

03-16-2007, 01:02 PM

Originally posted by Dannyblue1

Using the "it creates drama" excuse doesn't wash. Plenty of shows manage to be more dramatic (and more satisfying) without sinking to these levels.

And don't forget those shows also get better ratings and this Clana disaster did nothing to help SV's ratings this week....

Chlarkfan_forever

03-16-2007, 01:08 PM

okay, tell me what you would have done this season? hmm? and the reason why the ratings aren't as high is because this is it's sixth season! come on, throw them a bone.

trying2b

03-16-2007, 01:11 PM

Timester

03-16-2007, 01:13 PM

Originally posted by Chlarkfan_forever
okay, tell me what you would have done this season? hmm? and the reason why the ratings aren't as high is because this is it's sixth season! come on, throw them a bone.

First of all, focusing on Clark and Lex. Alot of drama can made just from their conflicts. Fighting over a girl is just bad soap opera and VERY cliche.

Dannyblue1

03-16-2007, 01:13 PM

Originally posted by trying2b
The season is not over yet. Patients people and stop freaking out about one ep.

See, I don't buy that either.

So many times, SV has come up with a questionable storyline. (The witch/stones business, for example.) And there are always some fans who urge the rest to wait and see. Things might be shaky now, but just wait and see. It's gonna be great in the end.

Only, it never is, is it?

Kryptonian-Ronin

03-16-2007, 01:14 PM

Originally posted by trying2b
The season is not over yet. Patients people and stop freaking out about one ep.

Who's freaking out ?
I AM NOT FREAKING OUT !!!!

* bangs head on desk *

Timester

03-16-2007, 01:14 PM

Originally posted by trying2b
The season is not over yet. Patients people and stop freaking out about one ep.

Can people please start reading the rules before posting?

DeesRyche

03-16-2007, 01:52 PM

Originally posted by Chlarkfan_forever
okay, tell me what you would have done this season? hmm? and the reason why the ratings aren't as high is because this is it's sixth season! come on, throw them a bone.

Well if it were me, and it's not, I might look at what epis. are drawing ratings this season and not waste time regurgitating the same story line....

And the Clana stories are not bringing in the highest ratings....

I think the viewership that is left is ready for the story to move on. We have had six season of Clanarama...it's not working anymore.

monet

03-16-2007, 03:34 PM

I like that word "clanarama"

RedKalEL

03-16-2007, 03:48 PM

spideyfan

03-16-2007, 04:35 PM

I cant believe CK was gonna propose again...This is like Reckoning all over again...sad actually

Clark Jr. the great

03-16-2007, 05:34 PM

Originally posted by paolinki25
What Superman? This version of Clark doesn't deserve to be called Superman.

and the clark who loves lois does??????

RedPhoenix23

03-16-2007, 06:21 PM

Originally posted by paolinki25
What Superman? This version of Clark doesn't deserve to be called Superman.

Word.

cmm

03-16-2007, 06:21 PM

Originally posted by Clark Jr. the great
and the clark who loves lois does??????

ummm.... ye he's the end result is he not?

RedPhoenix23

03-16-2007, 06:23 PM

Originally posted by spideyfan
I cant believe CK was gonna propose again...This is like Reckoning all over again...sad actually

What's even worse is Clark said giving up Lana is the worst thing that's happened to him. Yeah, because JK dying was a picnic. Grow up!

trying2b

03-16-2007, 06:24 PM

Originally posted by Timester
Can people please start reading the rules before posting?

Can people stop being the forum police for once?

RedPhoenix23

03-16-2007, 06:25 PM

Originally posted by bugaloo
Maybe he doesn't deserve to be called superman.. but he's got a few more years to go (i think) before he actually embraces his destiny as superman in metropolis.

give it a break.

That excuse doesn't fly anymore. This is the tail end of season six for god's sake! Where's all the progress we had at first half of this season??!

Scribe

03-16-2007, 06:26 PM

Originally posted by dianalela7
Well said!

How is he being a dead beat dad? He made the supreme sacrifice as far as I'm concerned.

He can't give the kid the life that Lois and Richard are presently giving him. Its one thing to have a girl friend who will understand every time you have to fly off and save the world but that is going to wear thin with a five year old very quickly.

Richard on the other hand, is the only father the boy's known. Not only that but Richard is fully committed to being a full time dad and will be there for the boy the same way Jonathan was there for Clark.

I think that Superman made the right call. He left the kid in the stable, happy home he's known all his life with the man that's proven to be the kind of father that Superman just can't be right now.

RedPhoenix23

03-16-2007, 06:27 PM

DARKRAGE

03-16-2007, 08:22 PM

There is no Superman in this show this is about Clark Kent and his path

STFanatic

03-16-2007, 08:24 PM

His path to where?

DARKRAGE

03-16-2007, 08:27 PM

god knows but he is not superman this is about Clark Kent and how he gets to his destiny balls lol

jor-eldeux

03-16-2007, 09:05 PM

People People - The def of Superman was the first guy to bring him to life - George Reeves. Kids actually thought he could fly. It's what killed the rest of his career he played it so well. Christopher Reeves - what character - played it the way Reeves played in TV show. Welling - if the rumors that he won't do certain things are true - doesn't embrace the character. This is Welling playing a struggling Clark Kent - not THE Superman.
This isn't written for art - it is written for a particular demographic. That will never change. Maybe - maybe - in the last season - when the numbers don't matter - maybe it will take up the Superman/Reeve/Reeves mythos - but don't hold your breath.

Timester

03-17-2007, 02:55 AM

Originally posted by trying2b
Can people stop being the forum police for once?

Good luck with that, since people here actually defend each others. Talk about the show and not the posters and you will fine.

trying2b

03-17-2007, 06:45 AM

That's good advice........FOR YOURSELF! Honestly Mr. Forum Police I've been a lurker for a long time and you happend to always get into an argument with someone. Maybe you should listen to YOURSELF and stop telling everyone what to do because usually people don't like unwanted advice.

Timester

03-17-2007, 08:33 AM

Originally posted by trying2b
That's good advice........FOR YOURSELF! Honestly Mr. Forum Police I've been a lurker for a long time and you happend to always get into an argument with someone. Maybe you should listen to YOURSELF and stop telling everyone what to do because usually people don't like unwanted advice.

Arguments about the show? Of course, it's what K-Site is for, to talk about the show. Not talk about the other posters.

And this is going off-topic, so I'll stop talking about this issue from now on.

MBCorp

03-17-2007, 09:00 AM

The sad thing is that Clark had actually improved alot during the first part of Season 6. Too bad 'Promise' completely crushed him into the ground and sent him into one of the worst states of regression that I've ever seen.

Timester

03-17-2007, 09:08 AM

Originally posted by MBCorp
The sad thing is that Clark had actually improved alot during the first part of Season 6. Too bad 'Promise' completely crushed him into the ground and sent him into one of the worst states of regression that I've ever seen.

The worst of this all is everything was predicted several months ago. People were complaining about the Green Arrow, but some of us praised the GA arc, knowing that as soon it ended, the regression would come back and the "Clexana from Hell" would come full force. Now, we have a moping Clark, a pregnant Lana Luthor that "doesn't love" his husband and a sad little Lex, knowing that his father will collect for his begging... :\

Honey45

03-17-2007, 09:58 AM

Originally posted by MetroGirl06
Clark IS Superman, the show has everything to do with it! Everything Clark does now is a step towards becoming Superman. People just cant understand how hes supposed to become such a symbolic character when every decision hes making seems to be leading him 100 mph in the opposite direction!

Clark is Superman? Right now? Really?
Because, maybe this is just me, but I haven't seen him in the suit.

This episode wasn't the last of the series. Chances are, there is still a season after this one.
Yes, that's right .. Clark CAN change his mind!

Just because he may make stupid decisions now, doesn't mean he'll be making them for the rest of his life.
A season and a half is a lot of time to alter a character drastically.
Stop freaking out about a few decisions he makes before he has even done his TRAINING to become Superman.

And to this post,

"Why do you think there is so much drama? Is it because the writers suck and want you guys to talk sh*t? No! Maybe it's for the many, many female viewers who enjoy the show and just watch for the drama. I mean, come on, we all want the action, but do you think this show could just live off us viewers"

Which was cleverly erased ..

I don't know if this is a joke..?
I'm female and I don't watch for the drama. My boyfriend's male and he doesn't just watch for the action.
Please, don't stereotype. Just because a girl watches the show, doesn't mean it's for the romance and drama. That's incredibly ignorant.

superman637

03-17-2007, 12:11 PM

give me a break people. This show is about clark growing up. And how he has become superman. I think that in the movies we are to used to seeing an alien like superman, who always gets the job done. but now we are seeing a more human one. Clark is only what?....about 21-22. HE DOESNT BECOME SUPERMAN UNTIL HE IS LIKE 30 OR SOMETHING. so hes growing up here. He is slowly becoming superman. The creators said when they made the show "no tights no flights". So I think if your expecting him to wake up one day.......like tommorow(or next ep) and throw on some tights and a red cape.....you may want to change the channel. as for me.....i think this show is great and have loved it for the past 6 years,

Dannyblue1

03-17-2007, 12:20 PM

Originally posted by superman637
give me a break people. This show is about clark growing up. And how he has become superman. I think that in the movies we are to used to seeing an alien like superman, who always gets the job done. but now we are seeing a more human one. Clark is only what?....about 21-22. HE DOESNT BECOME SUPERMAN UNTIL HE IS LIKE 30 OR SOMETHING. so hes growing up here. He is slowly becoming superman. The creators said when they made the show "no tights no flights". So I think if your expecting him to wake up one day.......like tommorow(or next ep) and throw on some tights and a red cape.....you may want to change the channel. as for me.....i think this show is great and have loved it for the past 6 years,

That is crap.

It's not about whether or not Clark puts on the suit. It's not about his chronological age. It's about the fact that, in six years, he has made very little progress towards becoming a hero.

He was on the path in season one. But, somewhere along the way, he stalled. Even took a few steps back.

Basically, after only one year of being the Slayer, Buffy Summers was a bigger hero (in my opinion) at 16 than Clark Kent is now. She still had a lot of growing to do, still made mistakes, etc. But she made progress, learned, grew, developed, all that good stuff.

I don't know anyone Clark's age who hasn't learned something from their life experiences. Who isn't vastly different from the way they were at 15, 16, even 18. But Clark is basically the same now as he was then.

Saying it's okay for Clark to have learned jack squat from all that has happened the past six years because he hasn't put on the suit yet is ridiculous.

paolinki25

03-17-2007, 12:25 PM

Originally posted by Dannyblue1
That is crap.

It's not about whether or not Clark puts on the suit. It's not about his chronological age. It's about the fact that, in six years, he has made very little progress towards becoming a hero.

He was on the path in season one. But, somewhere along the way, he stalled. Even took a few steps back.

Basically, after only one year of being the Slayer, Buffy Summers was a bigger hero (in my opinion) at 16 than Clark Kent is now. She still had a lot of growing to do, still made mistakes, etc. But she made progress, learned, grew, developed, all that good stuff.

I don't know anyone Clark's age who hasn't learned something from their life experiences. Who isn't vastly different from the way they were at 15, 16, even 18. But Clark is basically the same now as he was then.

Saying it's okay for Clark to have learned jack squat from all that has happened the past six years because he hasn't put on the suit yet is ridiculous.

A big, fat Word!

This isn't about Clark Kent's age or whehter or not he will get into the suit. It's about the character's progression, which right he's lacking of. It's been 6 years, and he's still the same boy we met in season 1.

SuperDuperTrooper

03-17-2007, 12:50 PM

Originally posted by monet
How could she turn her back now after seeing what Clark is capable of. Tell me that she and Chloe and Clark and Martha could not put together a good idea to get back at Lionel if she thought that he was telling the truth.

Sometimes you have to use your brain to think instead of your heart.

I would have never gave in to the devil and that is exactly who the Luthers are.

Doesn't she know good always conquers evil. Did she not watch the Lord of the Rings.

Obviously, the final twist with Lana giving in to Lionel's blackmail would not have happened in real life. To marry a guy when you're in love with someone else based on information that you don't even know is proved to be factual is NOT realistic. Lana would have at least talked to Martha because 1. She knows Clark(and his weaknesses better than anybody), and 2. everyone knows if there is a weakness to Lionel, it's his love for Martha. Not only would Lana end up with Clark, but she could also gain an advantage over Lionel knowing that he wouldn't get anymore hankypanky from Martha ever again, who is also a senator!!!

The only reason the writers decided to go this route is to conclude the mystery of Lana's baby, which would be hard to do if ties were cut between Lana and the Luthors.

I'm only hoping the rest of the season has some AWESOME eps based off this last one!!!

trying2b

03-17-2007, 01:31 PM

Originally posted by Dannyblue1
That is crap.

It's not about whether or not Clark puts on the suit. It's not about his chronological age. It's about the fact that, in six years, he has made very little progress towards becoming a hero.

He was on the path in season one. But, somewhere along the way, he stalled. Even took a few steps back.

Basically, after only one year of being the Slayer, Buffy Summers was a bigger hero (in my opinion) at 16 than Clark Kent is now. She still had a lot of growing to do, still made mistakes, etc. But she made progress, learned, grew, developed, all that good stuff.

I don't know anyone Clark's age who hasn't learned something from their life experiences. Who isn't vastly different from the way they were at 15, 16, even 18. But Clark is basically the same now as he was then.

Saying it's okay for Clark to have learned jack squat from all that has happened the past six years because he hasn't put on the suit yet is ridiculous.

It may be "crap" in your opinion but I think he has some good points myself. I'm 45 and I'm still "growing up", lol. Men never really "grow up". Can I get an amen from a women who has been married for at least 10 years who knows what I'm talking about, lol?

SnarkMasterJ

03-17-2007, 01:56 PM

Personally, I've always aspired to the belief that Clark would learn his lessons -- slowly, but he would learn them -- even reaching as far back as seasons 1-3 where he was unarguably immature but still making some sense of progress every time he stumbled. Now the main thing I wanted to see was Clark being able to prove that his father's life hadn't been given in vain. That everything Jonathan Kent believed about his son could and would come true.

In Promise, Clark sacrificed all of that. Blindly, rashly, and with no ultimately successful outcome. The excuse that he's got time doesn't sit well anymore. He had time in Seasons 1-3. He had time in Season 4. He even had time in Season 5 and early Season 6. Now he's just stalling. And not only that, he's moving backward. He's reverting. Nothing can be counted out, but in as many times as Superman fans have granted Clark Kent grace periods on this show, it doesn't surprise me that now a lot of them, myself included, are just fed up. Where is all this time he has? He's already alluded to submitting to Jor-El and beginning his training. And now over half the season has been wasted on his relationship games and emotional immaturity. It's upsetting and it's not excusable.

I am the Superman

03-17-2007, 02:51 PM

shirkie

03-17-2007, 02:59 PM

The comparison to "Buffy" is unfortunate. As much as I love "Smallville," it has never come anywhere CLOSE to being as well-written and pulled off as "Buffy." Buffy Summers was a completely amazing character and heroine who definitely grew as a person in a very noticeable fashion during her 7 years on the air.

We're six years through "Smallville" and stuck with the same old mopey Clark Kent. Y-A-W-N.
shirkie

trying2b

03-17-2007, 04:19 PM

Well I wish my 19 year old acted half the way that the show portraies Clark. Not self serving or wearing silly looking clothes and listening to that silly hip-hop music or trying to be "cool" and what not. For the record Clark is 20 years old.

Originally posted by I am the Superman
You mean the pre-teen looking guy who wears the superman suit? Right...

Exactly!

dunlopc

03-17-2007, 07:30 PM

Yes this show is about Young Clarks journey to becoming Earth's greatest protector. However the writers on this show suck they should have killed Lana in Season 5 not Johnathan Kent. His death should have propelled Clark onto his destiny or is his destiny to whine about Lana good god If I was Lois Lane I would not touch him with 10ft barge poll. Promise just finally ripped Tom Welling's Clark to shreads. Oh and as for people comments slagging off Routh's Superman he never Knew Lois was pregnant with his child. One their dna is different and not supposed to be possible and two he would never have left her if he knew. The late Christopher Reeve is Superman and he is even Brandon's however thanks to Routh we have someone in the same league as him. Unfortunately Welling could never play the real Man of Steel.

Honey45

03-17-2007, 07:57 PM

Originally posted by trying2b
It may be "crap" in your opinion but I think he has some good points myself. I'm 45 and I'm still "growing up", lol. Men never really "grow up". Can I get an amen from a women who has been married for at least 10 years who knows what I'm talking about, lol?

You're exactly right.
Just because it's been 6 years, doesn't mean Clark has to have grown immensely in character.
His father died - to many people, that could help you grow up. To many other people, that could stunt your growth for quite a few years.

Just because Clark is 20 and he was 14 when the show started, that DOES NOT mean he has to be a changed person by now.
Clark has a long way to go before becoming Superman (in age, maturity, emotional health, physically, training with Jor-El, etc).
People need to stop freaking out about little decisions he makes now that, chances are, won't affect his Superman-ness in future years.

cmm

03-17-2007, 08:14 PM

Originally posted by HeddyH
You're exactly right.
Just because it's been 6 years, doesn't mean Clark has to have grown immensely in character.
His father died - to many people, that could help you grow up. To many other people, that could stunt your growth for quite a few years.

Just because Clark is 20 and he was 14 when the show started, that DOES NOT mean he has to be a changed person by now.
Clark has a long way to go before becoming Superman (in age, maturity, emotional health, physically, training with Jor-El, etc).
People need to stop freaking out about little decisions he makes now that, chances are, won't affect his Superman-ness in future years.

See when I turned 20 a lot was expected of me because I was considered to be an adult. The idea that Clark doesn't have to change even though he is this age is ludacrous. Also, why does everyone always bring up how he's supposed to learn from Jor'el how to be superman because that has nothing to do with how he is now. From my understanding what he learns from Jor'el is science, information about the other worlds Jor'el visited nothing on how to become a mature man, that has to be learned on it's own. Like others have said after 6 years he should be more mature than he is now.

Honey45

03-17-2007, 08:42 PM

Originally posted by cmm
See when I turned 20 a lot was expected of me because I was considered to be an adult. The idea that Clark doesn't have to change even though he is this age is ludacrous. Also, why does everyone always bring up how he's supposed to learn from Jor'el how to be superman because that has nothing to do with how he is now. From my understanding what he learns from Jor'el is science, information about the other worlds Jor'el visited nothing on how to become a mature man, that has to be learned on it's own. Like others have said after 6 years he should be more mature than he is now.

According to YOU, he should be more mature than he is now.
Who are you to say how every 20 year old should act?
You have no idea what Clark is going through and what he has gone through - he's an alien.
Maybe he's not supposed to mature yet. Maybe it's a little more hard to grow up when you're, essentially, alone.

Clark has changed dramatically since season 1. Watch an early episode of the series compared to an episode of season 6. He HAS changed. Just because he hasn't matured to your standards, doesn't mean he hasn't matured at all.

Scribe

03-17-2007, 08:52 PM

Okay before everyone gets too upset. Every person is different and Clark Kent has one hell of a monkey on his back in regards to what's expected of him. He comes with all these powers he can't use, that people want to exploit. Where most people are trying to figure out what colleges to sign up for, his decisions have to do with life or death situations where every choice he makes could have significant impact on the people around him. To say nothing of the fact that the one person he relied on to guide him through this, Jonathan is dead. His stumbling through a lot of this alone.

Forgetting the comics for a moment, Clark Kent is right where he ought to be on Smallville. He's been making what he thinks are responsible decisions without factoring his own feelings. Watching Lana marry someone else has given him a big wake up call that sometimes the responsible decision isn't the right one and that's going to go a long way into helping him become a hero. In the coming weeks I think we'll see a lot of the maturity that some of us have been craving. Through pain comes growth and Clark's just been dealt one great dose of it.

cmm

03-17-2007, 09:11 PM

Originally posted by HeddyH
According to YOU, he should be more mature than he is now.
Who are you to say how every 20 year old should act?
You have no idea what Clark is going through and what he has gone through - he's an alien.
Maybe he's not supposed to mature yet. Maybe it's a little more hard to grow up when you're, essentially, alone.

Clark has changed dramatically since season 1. Watch an early episode of the series compared to an episode of season 6. He HAS changed. Just because he hasn't matured to your standards, doesn't mean he hasn't matured at all.

Well most people I know are mature by age 20 and just because he's alien that isn't any excuse. Most people are in college or have a job and are moving on with their lives, not pining away for a teenage first love. For your info I have watched earlier episodes and maturity wise in looks I can say he's grown but behaviour wise he hasn't. But that's just my opinion.

Originally posted by Scribe
Okay before everyone gets too upset. Every person is different and Clark Kent has one hell of a monkey on his back in regards to what's expected of him. He comes with all these powers he can't use, that people want to exploit. Where most people are trying to figure out what colleges to sign up for, his decisions have to do with life or death situations where every choice he makes could have significant impact on the people around him. To say nothing of the fact that the one person he relied on to guide him through this, Jonathan is dead. His stumbling through a lot of this alone.

Forgetting the comics for a moment, Clark Kent is right where he ought to be on Smallville. He's been making what he thinks are responsible decisions without factoring his own feelings. Watching Lana marry someone else has given him a big wake up call that sometimes the responsible decision isn't the right one and that's going to go a long way into helping him become a hero. In the coming weeks I think we'll see a lot of the maturity that some of us have been craving. Through pain comes growth and Clark's just been dealt one great dose of it.

I like your positive attitude and I hope your right maybe i'm old fashioned but to me when someone enters college or has grown up past there teen years there supposed to act more mature. Sorry if I've offended anyone that's just the way I was raised.

superman637

03-17-2007, 11:01 PM

Well look on the bright side......it seems Lex is coming along pretty good....

with his evilness.........

monet

03-17-2007, 11:27 PM

Well I think that Clark has grown up in alot of aspects and if you are honest with yourself I think that you would admit that too (for example he takes care of farm alone, take responsibility for his actions(Phatom Zoners), finds time to research and fight local crime as well as the extra toppings from the Luthors protect his family and friends, while watching his back from people who would exploit his secret). I don't know about you but that is alot for one person to take super or no super.

So I think that the main reason that there is anger, is the fact that he is still in love with Lana and you can't blame him for that after all it was his fault for the break up in the first place and he is just feeling guilty. This whole time he figured that letting her go was the best decision (which he did and made a great effort to do by staying away from her which you would see if you check you dvds). Unfortunately, in trying to protect her he pushed her into deeper waters and was just trying to rectify the situation which wasn't his idea anyway. If I could remember correctly. Chloe and Martha put the thoughts in his head.

It is very hard for a person to give up on their first love especially when you see them almost everyday and you're not even dating anyone else. It takes great strength to do so and if you don't believe me take a look around at people in real-life relationships. To besides I don't think you should give up on anything you want unless you have done everything in your power.

Having said that, I don't at all feel sorry for him because if he had listen to Chloe and told her the truth, then he wouldn't going through this right now.

And for the record he never said that losing Lana was the worst thing that ever happen to him. He said that giving up Lana was the hardest thing he ever had to do. So I don't see how he disgraced his father. He never made the choice to gave up his father, he had no idea that by saving Lana his father would have been taken instead. I think that since saving Lana cause him to lose his father the only way to make his death seem worth while is to keep her out of danger. I mean what sense in having her life exchanged for his and she still ends up dead or not having her in his life. If that would be the case then she could as well have died and let Johnathan live.

And if you think that you hate the picture now I don't know what else to tell you because the way it looks to me their relationship is not going to be over until he moves to Metropolis which is another year. Lana is a major part of the show and her character is linked to Clark. So as long as there is a Smallville their would always be a Clana just like as long as there is a Superman their is a Clois.

Therefore I guess we either stop watching or suck it up and enjoy the action, drama, twist, turns, ups and downs of SMALLVILLE.

And remember everything in life is not alway glitz and glamour. :) ;)

Oh I say all of this because I saw nothing wrong with Clark Kent's character this week. I thought the mistakes were all Lana Lang's.

trying2b

03-17-2007, 11:45 PM

Wow that was a very logically thought out statement. I couldn't agree with you more.

Timester

03-18-2007, 03:33 AM

InLove_with_Chloe

03-18-2007, 03:41 AM

wraith808

03-18-2007, 09:34 AM

Nice reversal- First Clark not admitting that he loved her to protect her, now her not admitting she loves him to protect him... very ironic.

And deadbeat dad? He doesn't even know it's his... if anything the Luthors are being more cynical and nefarious than ever.

And how does Lionel know *everything*!

I will agree that currently this isn't Superman that we see in Clark- but this is his journey, and a journey doesn't start at the end. And to anyone that says that his journey has made no progress- who can look at the entire series on DVD and see nothing in the way of movement- I guess we're watching two different TV shows. While it is true that the writing isn't the best at times, and is a bit more soapish than I would like, it isn't godawful to me at least, and though I might wish he was a bit farther along the path, the whole no tights, no flight thing I think has put the writers into a quandry that only AlMiles could get them out of. He's at a cusp... and I don't think they're ready to end the show just yet, so they're stuck...

Absolute Kingdom

03-18-2007, 06:20 PM

Originally posted by wraith808
Nice reversal- First Clark not admitting that he loved her to protect her, now her not admitting she loves him to protect him... very ironic.

Got it! I was thinking the whole day to think of a proper name for the superdude on Smallville. Ironicman fits the bill IMO. :D

freefall

03-18-2007, 11:29 PM

Clark has always been an ironic and confusing character. He hates Jor-El because he plays God, but in Reckoning he plays God himself. He hates this whole destiny stuff, but in Zod Jor-El finally backs away and in Fallout he said he's finally going to embrace his destiny just because Raya scolded him. "Pain is a part of life Kal-El!" Yeah right. How about Jor-El putting Jonathan in a coma, branding him, brainwashing him and Lindsay as well as asking him to murder Lex? I really don't understand why he didn't tell Raya about all this, and not to mention it didn't even register in his brain to ask about Lara.

The whole Clexana crap has always been confusing and ironic too. Clark always whines about being alone in this whole universe, then when he's with a girl whom he claims makes him "free" or whatever, he doesn't come clean with her about himself. Or the way he pursues Lana since he was seven, then when they're finally together he gave himself pity parties for not being able to tell her the truth. Lex thought Lana is only his trophy girl, but somewhere along the way he really fell in love with her and got his balls taken away.

Ilovebeinglost

03-19-2007, 09:23 AM

He's still supposed to be a teen. Don't worry he'll harden up, err I mean he'll grow out of this.

MackLove

03-19-2007, 09:26 AM

You can't say there has been NO movement. Everybody is getting set up to fill their Superman movie roles (clearly I dont mean SM Returns, which was cr@p!!!!!).

Lexana will break up, leaving Lex super evil and Lana with a kid in Smallville knowing about Clark. Clark is being isolated and is hopefully about to do his training. Chloe is a meteor freak, who can go crazy at any moment, that Lex has his eye on, all of which allows for her to disappear at any moment. Lois is getting experience as a writer, and Jimmy is already in place. All we need is Martha to not be a senator and we are good to go!

Mr. Wrong

03-19-2007, 09:28 AM

Wraith 808,
That was a very good analysis. I feel you could be a bit more demanding of the writers as they have lots of time to put out quality but fall short too often. However, I do appreciate your point of view.

STFanatic

03-19-2007, 09:39 AM

At twenty years old (the age Clark is supposed to be), TW turns 30 in April) I was living in my own house, working a full time job and going to college classes.

My parents had passed away eariler, so I knew I had to stand up on my own and make a life for myself.
Twenty years old is an adult age.

Dannyblue1

03-19-2007, 09:42 AM

Originally posted by Ilovebeinglost
He's still supposed to be a teen. Don't worry he'll harden up, err I mean he'll grow out of this.

Clark is, what, 20 now?

Yet he's still acting like he was at 15.

That excuse doesn't fly anymore. No pun intended.

I used Buffy as an example, but I'll use her again. Buffy changed a great deal between the age of 15 and 17. Her development wasn't finished, by any means. She still had a long way to go. But there was forward movement, progress.

Clark, in twice that time, hasn't begun to develop half as much. And, any time he does seem to develop, he ends up regressing right back to where he was before.

Originally posted by MackLove
You can't say there has been NO movement. Everybody is getting set up to fill their Superman movie roles (clearly I dont mean SM Returns, which was cr@p!!!!!).

Lexana will break up, leaving Lex super evil and Lana with a kid in Smallville knowing about Clark. Clark is being isolated and is hopefully about to do his training. Chloe is a meteor freak, who can go crazy at any moment, that Lex has his eye on, all of which allows for her to disappear at any moment. Lois is getting experience as a writer, and Jimmy is already in place. All we need is Martha to not be a senator and we are good to go!

You're talking about external changes. I'm talking about internal character development. Growth. Having learned from their mistakes and experiences.

Many viewers problems with Clark is that, despite having experienced so much the last six years, he's still doing things the way he did before he learned (or should've learned) all of these life lessons. Which makes one conclude he hasn't learned anything.

Most viewers are all for characters making mistakes. Keeps things interesting. But we want to see them learn from those old mistakes. Then, they can make new mistakes and learn new lessons.

Clark keeps making the same old mistakes, and appears to learn nothing from them.

mcgairman

03-19-2007, 09:52 AM

Originally posted by jor-eldeux
People People - The def of Superman was the first guy to bring him to life - George Reeves. Kids actually thought he could fly. It's what killed the rest of his career he played it so well. Christopher Reeves - what character - played it the way Reeves played in TV show. Welling - if the rumors that he won't do certain things are true - doesn't embrace the character. This is Welling playing a struggling Clark Kent - not THE Superman.
This isn't written for art - it is written for a particular demographic. That will never change. Maybe - maybe - in the last season - when the numbers don't matter - maybe it will take up the Superman/Reeve/Reeves mythos - but don't hold your breath.

Good points, all -- especially about GR. I grew up with the guy. I did believe when I watched him as a kid. He will always be the defintive Superman to me. But he also played Clark Kent very well. He wasn't a wishy-washy, whiny nerd. He was a man who hid his identity with subterfuge and some acting like he was weak. But his strength would come through, as well as his intelligence. TW is not showing any nacent trends in those areas. The character on SV seems to be all about teen age angst --- which I guess is what the producers wanted for the demographic of the audience they chose originally. However, the audience now includes many adults like you an me.

But I miss a hero like GR's CK and Supes was. I miss the heroic images that kids were shown and taught to emulate. What's to emulate about SV's Clark Kent -- not much. He isn't a very good moral example -- his premarital fling with Lana being one example, his crimimanl acts while on Red K another.

CR was good too, but his CK was too weak and nerdy. I loved his Superman, though.

:cool: MCGJr

Honey45

03-19-2007, 12:22 PM

Originally posted by cmm
Well most people I know are mature by age 20 and just because he's alien that isn't any excuse. Most people are in college or have a job and are moving on with their lives, not pining away for a teenage first love. For your info I have watched earlier episodes and maturity wise in looks I can say he's grown but behaviour wise he hasn't. But that's just my opinion.

Clark dropped out of school because his dad died and if he didn't take care of the farm, all the animals would die/nothing get done.
That's also why he doesn't have a job. Taking care of the farm is his job.

Because he's an alien, that isn't an excuse? Says who? You?
I'm going to assume you're not an alien, nor have you met one ... so how do you know if that's a valid excuse or not?

And just because someone has a "first teenage love", doesn't mean it's not a valid love.
My parents dated since they were young teens, and went through sorts of things Clark and Lana went through emotionally. If they didn't go back and forth and finally end up together in their late 20's, I wouldn't be alive.
So I'm definately going to say Clark spending a lot of time worrying about his first true love isn't a sign of immaturity.

Absolute Kingdom

03-19-2007, 12:25 PM

You're right its not. It is however a sign of emotional unstableness :D

Honey45

03-19-2007, 12:27 PM

Originally posted by Timester
There is one little problem. This is a TV show and it was supposed to be about the journey of Clark Kent. Where is the journey, after 6 years? Where is the character progression that a TV show implies?

Like I already said, just because you don't think Clark has matured or grown, doesn't mean he necessarily hasn't.
Maybe this is as far as the writer's wanted him to come at this stage. Keep in mind this isn't the last episode of the series. There is a still a lot of time left to grow and there's still a lot of time left for things to happen.

freefall

03-19-2007, 12:28 PM

Clark can get all the chores on the farm done in two minutes. No big deal. Unless Lana's stalking and taking pictures of him, then he'd be slow as molasses.

dunlopc

03-19-2007, 12:34 PM

Everyone has their favourite Superman depending on what you grew up with. However I have always felt let down with Superman in the television medium. Until 2001 I love the show the cast is great however I was expecting as the years went on some growth within each character expecially Clark unfortunately as demonstrated in the Promise episode due to the writers there hasn't been much. As each new season begins I'm always hoping to see Tom Welling nearing the Man of Steel but I fear it will never be. Thank goodness for the Superman movies.

Dannyblue1

03-19-2007, 12:36 PM

Originally posted by HeddyH
Like I already said, just because you don't think Clark has matured or grown, doesn't mean he necessarily hasn't.
Maybe this is as far as the writer's wanted him to come at this stage. Keep in mind this isn't the last episode of the series. There is a still a lot of time left to grow and there's still a lot of time left for things to happen.

No, I can't agree.

What you're basically theorizing is that they've decided not to let Clark progress or develop (much) because they want to spring it all on us at the end of the series. So, basically, he's running in place until the series finale.

That doesn't wash for me. There have been plenty of shows, on for 5, 6 or 7 years, in which the characters developed over the entire course of the series. They were a little different in season two than they had been in season one. A little different in season three than they had been in season two. Etcetera.

The writers being unable to show Clark growing and developing over the course of the series shows a lack of creativity and skill on their parts. Instead of letting Clark grow (make mistakes, learn from them, make new mistakes, learn from them, make new mistakes, learn from them, etc.) they've chosing to have Clark make the same old mistakes over and over and over again, and seemingly learn very little as a result.

myankskent

03-19-2007, 01:48 PM

Originally posted by Dannyblue1
No, I can't agree.

What you're basically theorizing is that they've decided not to let Clark progress or develop (much) because they want to spring it all on us at the end of the series. So, basically, he's running in place until the series finale.

I wouldn't say that Clark is running in place, but let's face it, Clark should be training right now. The fortress was built more than a year ago and Clark still isn't training. From that standpoint, TPTB are definitely making the character run in place.

That doesn't wash for me. There have been plenty of shows, on for 5, 6 or 7 years, in which the characters developed over the entire course of the series. They were a little different in season two than they had been in season one. A little different in season three than they had been in season two. Etcetera.

And the problem with this show is that once Clark starts training and Lex turns totally to the dark side, this show is over. They really don't have the ability to change characters on this show as much as other shows which is why we see a lot of character regression. That's the unfortunate thing with Smallville, there's only so long you can have Clark deny his destiny before it starts getting old.

The writers being unable to show Clark growing and developing over the course of the series shows a lack of creativity and skill on their parts. Instead of letting Clark grow (make mistakes, learn from them, make new mistakes, learn from them, make new mistakes, learn from them, etc.) they've chosing to have Clark make the same old mistakes over and over and over again, and seemingly learn very little as a result.

I agree with you here. Clark should not be making the same mistakes over and over again but again I have to ask, if Clark learned from his mistakes, how does this show last 6 plus years? That's the real problem and that's why we see so much character regression.

trying2b

03-19-2007, 07:35 PM

Originally posted by dunlopc
Now I am aware that in the comics clark was never a bumbling idiot. But here's a quote from Chris Reeve (He said, "there must be some difference stylistically between Clark and Superman. Otherwise, you just have a pair of glasses standing in for a character."). Plus he actually looked like Superman from the comics here's a quote from a 1978 review(When Christopher Reeve put on the famous blue, red and yellow suit he looked exactly like he had walked right out of the pages of a Curt Swan-Murphy Anderson drawn Superman comic book. There could not have been a better choice for the Man of Steel. ).

What are you talking about? The Curt Swan-Murphy Anderson before the 1986 re-vamp Clark was just that...a bumbling, stumbling dork with glasses that everyone picked on. Before you start stating something maybe you should check your facts first. Or maybe you just got your statement mixed up, I don't know.

And if you don't believe me I have about 200 Action and 150 Superman comics dating from about 1968 to about 1981.

A quote from the Superman Ecylopedia

In addition to wearing ordinary street clothes and slightly altering his facial appearance with eye-glasses to conceal the fact that he is secretly Superman, Clark Kent exhibits qualities of personality far removed from the ones he displays as Superman. The chronicles repeatedly describe Clark Kent as meek, mild-mannered, sickly, weak, submissive, and even spineless. Clark Kent is afraid of dogs, afraid of heights, and willing to let almost anyone push him around.

In his own words, "My meek behavior is the perfect disguise for my real identity as Superman!"

dunlopc

03-20-2007, 06:33 AM

No need to be nasty I've been told many times and read on this forum that Chris Reeves Clark Kent is all wrong and George Reeves and Dean Cains was more accurate to the comics. My fav Superman is Chris Reeve and much preferred his explanation as to why he played Clark they way he did which is why I copied and pasted quotes from The Chris Reeve website they are not my actual words.

trying2b

03-20-2007, 07:03 PM

I wan't getting nasty. I just wanted you to know that your facts were not accurate.

On another note, I'm not sure that I undersand when people say Clark has progressed on the show. IMHO I think the writers have come up with their continuity. Superman thru the ages has changed every 10 years so who to say who is wrong or right?

Timester

03-21-2007, 12:55 PM

Originally posted by trying2b
I wan't getting nasty. I just wanted you to know that your facts were not accurate.

On another note, I'm not sure that I undersand when people say Clark has progressed on the show. IMHO I think the writers have come up with their continuity. Superman thru the ages has changed every 10 years so who to say who is wrong or right?

The 70 years of Superman canon. Yes, his background changed every 20 years, but his character is the same since Action Comics #1. Even in today's comics/cartoon shows. Smallville is the only show that has ever change the character, and not for a better way.

Dannyblue1

03-21-2007, 03:15 PM

Originally posted by myankskent
And the problem with this show is that once Clark starts training and Lex turns totally to the dark side, this show is over. They really don't have the ability to change characters on this show as much as other shows which is why we see a lot of character regression. That's the unfortunate thing with Smallville, there's only so long you can have Clark deny his destiny before it starts getting old.

See, when I talk about Clark developing, I don't mean physical, external things like him going off to train or putting on the suit. I mean "development" in terms of the internal and emotional.

People grow through their experiences. You put your hand on a hot stove eye the first time because you don't know better. When you get burned, you learn that stove eyes are hot, and you shouldn't put your hand on them. So, next time, you don't.

With Clark, he puts his hand on the stove eye and gets burned. Now, does he learn from that. Not from what we see. Either he's forgetting the lesson and has to learn it again, or he chooses to believe the next time he touches the stove eye will be different. Either way, it doesn't say much for his characters ability to grow.

I agree with you here. Clark should not be making the same mistakes over and over again but again I have to ask, if Clark learned from his mistakes, how does this show last 6 plus years?

By making brand new mistakes.

That's one of the things I loved about Angel. He always learned and grew as a result of his mistakes. That didn't keep him from making new, bigger mistakes. And he learned from those too.

It's like the producers of SV have decided there are only a few things Clark needs to learn. Instead of being creative and finding new lessons for the character, they make him learn, forget, and relearn the same lessons over and over again.

trying2b

03-21-2007, 05:42 PM

Originally posted by Timester
Even in today's comics/cartoon shows. Smallville is the only show that has ever change the character, and not for a better way.

Well that's your opinion and you know what they say about opinions? And since you live in Europe how is it that you get to even watch the program the same time that we do?

cmm

03-21-2007, 05:55 PM

Originally posted by Dannyblue1
See, when I talk about Clark developing, I don't mean physical, external things like him going off to train or putting on the suit. I mean "development" in terms of the internal and emotional.

People grow through their experiences. You put your hand on a hot stove eye the first time because you don't know better. When you get burned, you learn that stove eyes are hot, and you shouldn't put your hand on them. So, next time, you don't.

With Clark, he puts his hand on the stove eye and gets burned. Now, does he learn from that. Not from what we see. Either he's forgetting the lesson and has to learn it again, or he chooses to believe the next time he touches the stove eye will be different. Either way, it doesn't say much for his characters ability to grow.

By making brand new mistakes.

That's one of the things I loved about Angel. He always learned and grew as a result of his mistakes. That didn't keep him from making new, bigger mistakes. And he learned from those too.

It's like the producers of SV have decided there are only a few things Clark needs to learn. Instead of being creative and finding new lessons for the character, they make him learn, forget, and relearn the same lessons over and over again.

Word. You've said everything i've been trying to say for ages. I just don't understand why the writers don't seem to understand that.

Timester

03-22-2007, 03:22 AM

Originally posted by trying2b
Well that's your opinion and you know what they say about opinions? And since you live in Europe how is it that you get to even watch the program the same time that we do?

How can be the fact that he never changed the last 70 years my opinion? :confused:

Right now, Smallville's Clark is nothing more than a lousy copy of Peter Parker.

trying2b

03-22-2007, 06:52 AM

Uh huh so your 70 years old and have been illegally downloading?

Mr. Wrong

03-22-2007, 07:33 AM

The CK of this SV has run the gamut and can really only go to the FOS at this point IMHO. Nothing wrong with next season being a transition one where we see ten years pass over the hiatus and have Superman emerge in the opening. The Superman saga tends to sever ties with Smallville at this point but TPTB could be forgiven for allowing us to see a more realistic transition. After all it appears in this version of SV that Metropolis is not very far away at all. Unlike the Sup.Saga where Kansas is in Kansas and Metropolis is more like New York. Not the same logistics at all. Therefore TPTB should be allowed to continue to use some poetic license with their depiction of Superman. However, the core values and storyline should not be tampered with. Traditionalists should be respected but newagers have a right to fall in love with a 21st century superhero also. I guess I'm trying to say, lets all try to have our cake and eat it to!LOL